1 50 18 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F9c20fe3d0ef3378f837cbcac10d470e0.mp4 8ff7134b7fd9fbf590e1911a6bcad7c9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pre-1943 Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Description An account of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert Franklin Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Shirley Stewart Location The location of the interview Royal City (Wash.) Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound 0:00:00 Tom Hungate: And we’re rolling. Robert Franklin: We’re rolling. Okay. My name is Robert Franklin. I am conducting an oral history interview with Shirley Stewart on January 17, 2020. The interview is being conducted at Shirley Stewart’s home outside Royal City. I will be talking with Shirley about her experiences growing up in what became the Hanford Site. For the record, can you state and spell your full name for us? Shirley Stewart: Shirley A. Stewart. S-H-I-R-L-E-Y. Adele, A-D-E-L-E. Stewart, S-T-E-W-A-R-T. Franklin: Great, thank you. And Shirley, what was your family name that-- Stewart: Oh, McGee. Franklin: McGee, right? And tell me where--tell me a bit about the ranch that you grew up in. 0:00:49 Stewart: Okay. My grandparents came into Cold Crick in 1908. And it was my dad’s stepdad and two brothers and Daddy and his sister. He was a blacksmith, and he used to ride his horse from Cold Crick clear to Hanford to shoe horses. This was in the early days. I believe that they did dryland wheat, some. But in 1916, maybe, they were looking for natural gas. And this guy came by and asked around if he’d be interested in drilling a well on his place. Grandpa thought about it a minute and he said, well, you know, I’m interested. But he said, I want to tell you this: if it’s water, it’s my well. If it’s natural gas, it’s yours. Well, the guy set up his thing to drill and he probably lasted a year or a little after and he finally ran out of funds. So then of course Grandpa went on with his life. Then in another year the guy came by and asked him the same thing. And he said, well, if it’s my well, it’s water, and if it’s gas, it’s yours. And I don’t know how deep that well was, but it had to be fairly deep. Well, they hit just a gusher of artesian well. That was the first--that was Brown’s well at Cold Crick. Franklin: And why was it called Brown’s well? Stewart: Well, because that was my grandpa’s—it was my dad’s stepdad, see? Franklin: I see. Okay, okay. 0:02:36 Stewart: And then they raised—they had a little orchard, as I remember them telling me, because I was too little then at first. But anyway, and then they had grain, hay. And but anyway, then my dad, at 18, he filled out to get a homestead—on the Homestead Act. Franklin: And your father’s name was Chester. 0:03:05 Stewart: Chester McGee, mm-hmm. And he had worked on that like maybe a year or two and then the war came along, and he went into the Navy then. Then when he came back out of the Navy, it was 125, I think, acres that he’d already approved on then. Well then Mom—my mother, meanwhile, my mother was a school teacher at Cold Crick, and that’s how Dad met her. So in 1919, they got married in December and they moved to White Bluffs for two years. He managed an orchard. And then he became a deputy sheriff of Benton County for eight years. Well, while he was there, he kept improving on this ground and getting it ready for when he was going to be through his thing. In 1928, a well driller got ahold of Dad and said would you be interested in drilling a well? And Dad said, well, yes, but I don’t have the funds to pay you. Oh, he said, that’s no big deal. Well, anyway, so Dad said, okay, I’ll give you 100 acres if you can get water for me. And we did. We had the biggest well. It was 1,150 feet deep. 90 pounds pressure and 100—let’s see if I’ve got—I figured I’d write this all down and then I’d tell ya. Franklin: We’ve heard of people drilling down several hundred feet, but I have not heard of anybody drilling down—like over 1,000 feet, I mean, that’s a really deep well. Stewart: Yeah, okay. They had 1,800 pounds pressure. Franklin: 1,800 pounds? Stewart: Mm-hmm, because that’s to irrigate over 300 acres with it. Franklin: Wow. 0:04:52 Stewart: Well, anyway, meanwhile, between the time Grandma’s well come in and ours, there was three other wells drilled at Cold Crick, but theirs were more shallow—they were shallower wells. And they had little farms there, too. I could name some of the people, but-- Franklin: Sure! Could you? Stewart: Rothrocks was one name. Meekers. M-E-E-K-E-R. Franklin: Okay, that name’s familiar. Stewart: And the other one was Schlosser. Raymond Martinez: Schlosser. Franklin: Is that like-- Stewart: S-C-H, wasn’t it? Martinez: Schlosser, Bob Schlosser. Stewart: Schlosser, uh-huh. Franklin: Okay. Stewart: Didn’t he move to Sunnyside? Martinez: Huh? Stewart: He moved to Sunnyside, didn’t he? Martinez: Yeah, he moved to Sunnyside. Franklin: Oh, and just for the record, that’s Raymond Martinez sitting off to the side who also grew up in Hanford-White Bluffs. That’s for our transcriptionist, who’s going to have to type all this out, just so she knows who you are, to put your name next to what you said. 0:05:55 Stewart: So then, after Dad’s time, it was eight years he was deputy sheriff. So they meanwhile were building—I think what they did is bought two old shacks and rebuilt them for our home. And then we moved there—I was about 18 months old, so it’d be 1931, we moved to the ranch then. Franklin: Okay. And you were how old in 19—so, sorry. When were you--when and where were you born? Stewart: I was 18 months old when they moved. Franklin: 18 months old. So you were born in White Bluffs, then? Stewart: I was born—actually, well, no, I was born in Kennewick. Franklin: And did your family live in Kennewick? Stewart: They lived in Kennewick when Dad was deputy sheriff. And I had a brother. My brother was seven years older then. Yeah. Franklin: So you were born in 1929? Stewart: 1929, I was born, mm-hmm. Franklin: Wow. Okay. And so where did you live in Kennewick? Stewart: I don’t know. Franklin: Do you remember? Or do you know where the family lived in Kennewick? 0:06:57 Stewart: They lived in a—I think, first they lived in Prosser for a while and then they moved to Kennewick. But I couldn’t tell you. I don’t know the streets. I think we went by there one time, and it was kind of just a little house that was there. I just don’t remember. Franklin: That’s fine, that’s fine. I was just curious. Because I live in downtown Kennewick, so I was just wondering-- Stewart: Well, it was kind of just at the edge of town. You know where the road goes on back up to Tri-Cities, I mean up to Hermiston. What is that? Martinez: Umatilla? Stewart: It was just off of that. Franklin: Yeah. Okay, interesting. Stewart: Two or three blocks. Franklin: Okay. So 1931, you moved up to Cold Creek. Stewart: To Cold Crick. Franklin: In kind of the house that your father had put together. 0:07:34 Stewart: Yeah, oh, yeah. But we did not have electricity. The power lines went right by, but they didn’t have transformers, see. But we never had electricity. Franklin: Not in the whole time? Stewart: Uh-uh. Never. Well, we had lots of water. [LAUGHTER] Power to the--yeah, no, brought it into the house and we had a bathroom. We had an outside poo-hoo for quite a long time and then we remodeled and Dad had an inside bathroom. But then we had a propane stove, like, I mean—with a firebox on one end to heat the water, because it was without electricity, you know? I can remember that. And then we had, Dad figured out some way of putting propane lights in through tubes on the ceiling. But it wasn’t very bright. You couldn’t read by it, because it was kind of just dim, you know. But it was fine. Franklin: And that’s to kind of see your way at night. Yeah, okay. Interesting. 0:08:40 Stewart: And let’s see, what do I need to tell you? My dad raised hay, mostly hay, and potatoes. And they did really good with those potatoes like in 1935 or ‘36, they bought a new John Deere tractor and a car, with my uncle’s dad and him, they farmed some together. The uncles, meanwhile, I was going to tell you, when we drilled our well, it was on the same strata as my grandmother’s, and it dried up. Franklin: Right, I had heard that. Stewart: Okay. And where the grape vineyards are now, at Cold Crick, that’s right where Grandma’s place was. Franklin: Right, the ones you can see kind of off to the—so that’s where the Browns-- Stewart: That’s where the Browns lived. Franklin: And you were closer to the road. Stewart: Yes, right. Well, we were right on-- Franklin: On what’s the road now. [TELEPHONE RINGING] Stewart: Hang on. Franklin: Here, we’ll just take a little pause. [VIDEO CUTS] Franklin: Okay. So that’s pretty interesting, in the middle, then, of the Depression, your parents were doing okay. 0:09:39 Stewart: Yes. And I can remember this, my brother was a teenager, you know, going with my uncles, they used to haul the potatoes up on the pass in the park and sell the spuds on the pass up there. Snoqualmie Pass. Franklin: Oh, wow, really? Stewart: And then they took them clear to Seattle. And I remember my brother going a time or two with Uncle Russ down to the shipping place on the bay. Franklin: Wow. Stewart: Yeah. But they must’ve done pretty good, because they—you know, affording a new rig or two. We didn’t--I think Dad had one hired man part of the time. But with that artesian well, it was then the system that he had set up was really good. But we farmed with horses. We had a set of mules, Buster and Wally were their names. And then we had a set of heavy horses. Then they had one horse that we used to pull up, the derrick horse, we called him. And his name was Cato. That was my job when I was about six or seven, I got to go out and put up hay. Franklin: Oh, wow. Stewart: Yeah. Franklin: And what happened when your grandparents’ well ran dry? I could imagine that-- Stewart: So they moved to Priest Rapids. Franklin: Okay. 0:11:12 Stewart: And they started a sheep ranch down there, the Browns did. I don’t remember too much, other than I knew they had a beautiful, great big barn, the people that had it before. And I think they had a few dairy cows, too, at one time. But they ended up in the sheep business. They put up hay at Priest Rapids, too. Franklin: Okay. And is that farm still there? Stewart: Oh, no, oh, no. Oh, no, no. They had to move also. Franklin: When—the dam? Stewart: Mm-hmm. When--no. They had to move--in fact, they let them finish—let me say this again. They let them lamb out their sheep that winter that everybody had to move out in ‘43. So Browns got to stay until January after the lambing. And then, meanwhile, they bought a place up at Vantage. Franklin: Wow, I see. 0:12:14 Stewart: That’s where they moved to. So, yeah. And we had about 100 head of ewes and I can remember Dad, they gave them to Browns. They herded them up there. And I don’t know how they did. They used to use that one tractor. They must’ve had to drive it. It was about 12 miles. Was it about that? Wasn’t it? About 12 miles to Priest Rapids from Cold Crick. They’d drive that tractor back and forth and use it. Isn’t that something? And then in 1937, I think, Dad bought another one. So they had two John Deeres. So they didn’t--by then have to--yeah. Franklin: What are some of your fondest memories growing up out there? 0:13:01 Stewart: [LAUGHTER] Oh, gosh. Well, you know what we did in the summertime a lot was pack a big lunch on Sunday and go down to the river and go swimming. And this was with the hired help and all of us kids and friends, and go swimming. And we’d always pack up wood and bring it home, because there was lots of wood, and that’s what we’d burn in the wintertime in the stove in the living rooms. Franklin: Right. Oh, yeah. Stewart: We always had wood stoves. Franklin: Kind of like driftwood that would come down? Stewart: Oh, and there was so much. Yeah. Yeah. Franklin: Wow. Stewart: Those were wonderful memories when we used to go swimming. In the wintertime, a few times, where we used to go--we’d go ice skating. But we did that right at home, because Dad had this—they could never turn the water completely off from the well in the wintertime. It always leaked around there. And then we’d skate down on kind of a canal-like thing. Those were precious. The other thing. Dad always loved to listen to the news, and all we had was a battery radio. Well, when he saw this—this is a funny—he saw where he could get a wind charger. So he got this first one that came out that charged the battery. He got up and put it on the point of the house and got it all ready. And, boy, it worked really good. It charged the batteries so fast. Well, one day, one time, we had a really bad windstorm and it blew so hard it shook the dishes out of the cupboard. Franklin: Wow. Stewart: So we had to disconnect the-- Franklin: The charger, yeah. Stewart: Yeah. And he had to put it on a pole. But, yeah, of course when the war started and everything, they listened to a lot of news, you know. But you only got to listen to that and Fibber McGee and Molly, and I think one other, and that was about all you got to listen to. But that was probably the length of the battery, I don’t know. Anyway. Yeah. Franklin: That’s really-- 0:15:11 Stewart: My family were really musical. My brother played the trumpet, and from the time he was, I don’t know, in grade school, I guess. I need to back up. We went to school at Vernita. Do you know where that was? Franklin: Yeah, down, right kind of where the bridge is today. Stewart: Down the hill. And actually I have a picture of the school. But anyway, that’s where I went. And then they went on down to White Bluffs to high school. And I went, let’s see, three-- Franklin: How far was that? Stewart: Six miles. Franklin: And how did you get there each day? Stewart: Well, they had a school bus. Franklin: Okay. Stewart: At one time, there was several kids. I don’t remember just how many, probably four or five of us went from there down to Vernita to this school. Well, on the first three grades, the first year, there was about eight or ten of us, one teacher. The next year, some of the kids had left and they’d gone to high school or moved. So there was like five, I think. The next year, there was two boys and I in the whole school the whole year, in the third grade. [LAUGHTER] That was a disaster! Anyway, then for two years, we went with the high school kids to White Bluffs on the bus. And the old—it was like wooden sides, and the dust would just boil in. Do you remember that, Raymond? Oh! It was awful. Franklin: It would shake—was it-- Stewart: Oh, yeah, it would shake, you know? Franklin: Was it basically just kind of like a converted truck? Stewart: No. It was solid sides with windows. Franklin: Oh, okay. Stewart: But there was—the dust just would—anyway, I went two years to White Bluffs. And then two more years, more kids started moving in because of the Midway substation that Bonneville was building. Franklin: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Stewart: And so there was more kids. Well then the eighth grade, they took the seventh and eighth grade with the high school kids clear to Hanford that last year. And that was 1943 when I graduated eighth. They closed it the fifth of May. I can remember that. Franklin: Wow. Yeah. Oh, speaking of that, I wanted to ask, what were your memories of the eviction or the evacuation, getting, maybe getting the notice, what do you remember about that time? 0:17:54 Stewart: Oh, it was a real shock. A real shock. But I want to tell you one thing. We didn’t do very good, but Dad was very patriotic. Because he’d been in World War I, and he knew we had to do something. They had to do something. I can remember that. But, yeah, it was really hard. We had a really beautiful place, and they did really well with what we had. Yeah, Dad didn’t have—he wasn’t—it bothered him—he knew it had to be done. Some people just kept that hatred in them all their years. They never got over it. Franklin: No, they didn’t. No, we’ve interviewed some people who were still-- Stewart: Bitter. Franklin: --angry at DuPont all these years later Stewart: Well, Dad went to work—when he couldn’t irrigate, he still grazed the sheep on it, didn’t they? Do you remember that, Raymond? Martinez: What’s that? Stewart: Oh, Dad grazing the sheep on our hayfields. Do you remember that? Martinez: No. Stewart: Anyway, but he was a Pinkerton guard for the Bonneville power. Franklin: Oh, really? 0:19:04 Stewart: And we got to stay at Cold Crick till October. However, they took the high school kids to Sunnyside that year, and I started high school in Sunnyside for—I was only there a couple months, I think. But that was always—and dirt, talk about dust. Franklin: Wow, yeah, that is a ways. Stewart: And it was just in on all—no grass, it was all gravel. Franklin: Right, jeez. So you said you got to stay until October. That was October 1943? Stewart: Mm-hmm. Franklin: You got--oh, wow. Yeah, that’s pretty-- Stewart: And he was sent to Spokane to two different substations up there he was over. And then we moved to Spokane then and bought a little place up there. And I graduated from high school, Rodgers. And I went two-and-a-half years to WSU then. Franklin: Okay, okay. Stewart: Mm-hmm. Franklin: Tell me a little more about Cold Creek-- Stewart: Cold Crick. Franklin: Cold Crick, sorry. What kind of community was it? Did it have services, or was it just-- Stewart: No. Franklin: --kind of a gathering of-- Stewart: No, no. Franklin: --people? 0:020:08 Stewart: There was a little gas station at the bottom of the hill before you would cross the crick there. Franklin: Okay. Stewart: But, no there wasn’t any services, no grocery store. I might mention this: we used to be--maybe you have it down in your thing--used to be a stage come clear from Kennewick. They would bring the mail up. I think to Hanford, White Bluffs and all up to us. And then if we needed something, he’d always stop at the Reiersons’ grocery store at White Bluffs. If we needed something, we could call down there, and they’d bring it up with the mail and everything. Franklin: Oh, wow. Stewart: Yeah. and the people they’d tell you if they had to go from Kennewick to White Bluffs, they would come on the stage. Franklin: Wow, okay. Stewart: I just wondered if you’d ever heard about that. Franklin: No, I haven’t. That’s really interesting. You mentioned you did not have electricity, but did you have phone? Stewart: Yes, we had phones. It was--yeah. Franklin: Okay, interesting. Stewart: You rang two shorts or two longs. Franklin: Wow. Stewart: Yeah, if your phone rang, everybody who lifted up could hear what you were saying. [LAUGHTER] Yes. Franklin: So you had traveled to White Bluffs for school. Did you also travel there to go to do all your shopping as well? 0:21:27 Stewart: Well, what shopping we did. We had always--my folks always raised a big garden. We had a lot of garden. We had a small orchard of our own. We raised fruit trees. And the one I hated the worst was the pie cherries. My brother and I always had to pick those pie cherries. We just picked the cherries right off the tree, leave the seeds on the tree. [LAUGHTER] Oh, yeah. And Mom did a lot of canning. My folks canned. And Dad butchered; he was a good butcher. And so your basic things that you needed were like sugar and flour and those type of things. So you didn’t go to the grocery store very often. Franklin: Right, right. But to get like clothes and other-- Stewart: Well, yeah. We would go to Yakima about twice a year. Franklin: Okay. Stewart: And probably--you know, I’m trying to remember whether you went to--maybe he went to Sunnyside for parts. I think Dad did; we did go there some too. But, yeah, we would get--and then we used to use Sears and Roebuck. We ordered-- Franklin: Oh, right. What was social life like-- Stewart: Oh, my gosh. Franklin: --for you for your parents? Did you go to White Bluffs or Hanford often to go to movies? 0:22:45 Stewart: Well, we didn’t need to; we had such a community. Wonderful community. I have pictures of--we had a woman’s group. My God, I got whole lots of pictures of them. And it was called a Priest Rapids Ladies’—I can’t think of the ladies’ club. But it went clear from up Priest Rapids clear almost down to Riverland. Down to Allard. Allard’s. Franklin: To the Bruggemanns’ and then the Allards’. Stewart: Uh-huh. Yeah. Mr. Bruggemann’s picture’s in here. Franklin: Oh, wow. Stewart: Yeah, they had--we had a real good--and my dad was on the school board. He always helped with that. We had a small school. And something that I always have remembered, you know, in those days, you didn’t have oranges or things like that. And the big thing every year, we always had a play at Christmastime for the little school, and we always had Christmas baskets. And they always got oranges, those kids could hardly wait to get that orange. And now the kids don’t think a thing about--you know? Franklin: No, no. Stewart: And a little bit of candy, a candy cane, and I don’t remember. An apple, I suppose we had apples in them. I don’t remember that part. But I do remember they used to go down along the river and get a juniper for Christmas trees for the school. Franklin: [LAUGHTER] 0:24:06 Stewart: The other thing I remember, and it was always in my mind--I was just a little girl. They had candles on those trees. Burning candles. At the school! Franklin: Wow. That sounds like a serious fire hazard. Stewart: Yeah, but now, my God, it would--[LAUGHTER] This was the school. Franklin: That’s really cool. And this was where? Stewart: That was Vernita. Franklin: Oh, Vernita School. Stewart: I have the only picture of it. Franklin: Would we be able to-- Stewart: Yes! Franklin: --take some of these and scan them and send them back to you? Stewart: Yes. Yes, you can. Franklin: Oh, that’d be wonderful. Stewart: Go through these things, because I’ve got some really good ones. Franklin: No, it sounds like you have some great photos there. 0:24:40 Stewart: But anyway, I can remember—but we always had school plays. Even if there was like only four of us kids in the school. That was always the big thing, in the fall we’d have--I don’t remember anything at Thanksgiving. I think we used to have—we had a potluck. We had a lot of potlucks. The ladies’ club would have potlucks. And they used to have social dancing. My aunt played the piano. My two uncles, one played the saxophone and the other clarinet. And my brother played the trumpet. And my dad played the fiddle, and my mother and I both played the piano. So, that would be kind of our social thing, like on Sunday afternoons. We’d get to my grandparents’, up there, and play music. That was--yeah. Franklin: So, I wanted to ask you about your family for a minute. So your dad’s name is Chester. What was your mom’s name? Stewart: Clida. Ratcliffe was her last name. Franklin: Okay. Clida Ratcliffe. Stewart: Clida, mm-hmm. Franklin: Clida Ratcliffe, but McGee, I guess-- Stewart: Yeah. And Dale McGee. Franklin: Dale, your older brother. Stewart: I just have the one brother. Franklin: Just the one brother. Stewart: Yeah, and seven years older than me. Franklin: And so Yvonne is your sister-in-law. Stewart: Sister-in-law, mm-hmm. Franklin: And then your dad had brothers and sisters. You said you had an aunt and uncle? Stewart: Well, yeah. He had a full sister, Cassie, who was two years older than Dad. Franklin: And where did she live? 0:26:00 Stewart: She lived with her--well, for years she lived in California. Because she worked in a bank, I think. And then I don’t remember just when she came back to Cold Crick. Or maybe she went to Cold Crick first and then down there. I think that may be that. Because she used to do go down and work in the packing house with the—in fact, her picture’s in one of these, with those ladies that-- Franklin: Oh, really?! Stewart: Yes. Franklin: Oh! Right on. Stewart: I’m sure that’s her. Franklin: Okay. Stewart: But she was a bookkeeper. Franklin: Okay. Stewart: Also. So she was single for a long time. In fact, I met my—this should go on later. Well, anyway, how I met my husband. I went down and helped her cook for the lambing crew at Vantage. And my husband-to-be was working for them at the time. Franklin: Aw. Stewart: And she had never been married, and we dated with another fellow, and she ended up marrying him. She was in her 40s--50s. Franklin: Oh, wow. Stewart: Isn’t that interesting? Franklin: That is interesting. Stewart: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Franklin: Huh. And then you also mentioned an uncle, too. 0:27:15 Stewart: Two uncles. Russ and Wynn. Brown. They were just little ones when they moved to Cold Crick, just tiny boys. Franklin: Okay. Stewart: Yeah. Franklin: And they lived with the Browns, then. Stewart: Yes, they did. Mm-hmm. Franklin: Okay, gotcha, gotcha. Stewart: And then, I think there’s pictures of them. I ought to show you. Oh, man. Martinez: They’re in the book. Stewart: They’re in this. Martinez: They’re dressed for winter in that book. Stewart: This one. Martinez: Yeah. Stewart: I’ll [INAUDIBLE] Franklin: Really? So most of the photos for that book we got from the Edmund Anderson family. Stewart: Yeah. Franklin: Harry Anderson, as part of what they collected for the Hanford-White Bluffs Association. Stewart: Yeah, it’s the same-- Franklin: But we never--didn’t get any-- Stewart: Yeah, Wynn and Russ are in this picture. Franklin: Oh, really? Oh, that—okay! Stewart: Uh-huh. Franklin: Oh, wow. Stewart: Wynn and Russ Brown. Franklin: Oh, that’s really neat. Stewart: And then they were in the White Bluffs Band. My uncles were in that band. My brother was in the band. They used to go--there actually was the community, not just the high school, that one band. I’ve got pictures of that, too. Franklin: See, this is crazy, because you know, we got all this, but we never got this information as to who these people were. Because we just got these pictures and we never got the people to tell us who was in the pictures. Stewart: Yeah, isn’t that interesting? Franklin: Oh, yeah, that’s really neat. That’s really cool. Stewart: Yeah, Wynn and Russ were both in this picture. Franklin: Wow, that’s neat. That’s good to know. Stewart: So I always saved that. I had that for a long time. Franklin: Oh, that’s really good to know. Stewart: Anyway, let’s see what else I was going to tell you. Oh, I need that. Whatever you want to ask me. I don’t think I’ll remember. Franklin: Do you remember when--you mentioned Midway. Stewart: Yes, I do. Franklin: Do you remember around when that came into the area? 0:29:00 Stewart: Yes. About 19--well, it was--they started it in about ‘41. Because I remember my brother went one year to WSU, he graduated in 1940. So that fall he went to a--the reason I remember, the next--he worked at the next summer. It was so hot. It was 116 or 117. Oh, it was hot! Down in those—I can remember him getting so sick. Franklin: Oh, that sounds awful. Stewart: Oh, it was really hot. Franklin: That sounds really--especially before-- Stewart: And no air conditioning. Franklin: No, of course not. Stewart: You didn’t have that. We just went swimming a lot. [LAUGHTER] Franklin: Were there a lot of families that came with the substation, or was it--did it-- 0:29:42 Stewart: Well, I can remember of only--yeah, there was a few. And then they built houses for them later, see? The one family had three girls, and they kind of helped getting our school back going. Franklin: Oh, yeah. Stewart: Yeah, and the one girl was in my class. I don’t remember a whole—there was some older children that went on to White Bluffs, I remember that. But mostly there were just men that started working there and then didn’t bring the family. Well, there wasn’t any place for them to live. Franklin: Right. Was that pretty exciting to have the dams come up and the electricity come through the—did you maybe start to get the sense that things were going to change a bit? Stewart: Well, I think I did. I think I did. But it was so many changes so fast. And I remember, when we moved to Spokane, we probably only had—we lived in that same place. We probably only had one old truck, and probably made two trips. One with this piano, of course. Franklin: Of course. Stewart: But what I’m saying is now, look at everything everybody has. If I moved out of here--[LAUGHTER] Oh, God. You know, people don’t think about that. Franklin: Oh, yeah, yeah, of course. Stewart: And I’ve lived in this house 66 years, you guys. Franklin: Wow. Wow. Stewart: So I’m one of the old-timers here. Franklin: Yeah. Wow, that’s really cool. So, oh, shoot. What was I going to--what was my next question? Oh! So, there were a lot of social life in Cold Creek. Stewart: Yes. Franklin: But you did go to White Bluffs for-- 0:31:16 Stewart: Yes, we did, and Dad was very active in the American Legion, and they used to have like dances and things. And then when my brother was in high school, of course we went to the basketball games. They’d have basketball and softball. Franklin: Do you remember when the schools burned down? Stewart: Yes, I do-- Franklin: The White Bluffs-- Stewart: --remember that day. I was taking piano lessons. I was in fourth grade. And we had just started—Mom had come and got me, and we were just headed back out to go home and we saw the fire. We saw it. Yeah. I remember that real plain. Franklin: Okay. Were you talking--White Bluffs or-- Stewart: The White Bluffs High School. Franklin: --because I know both schools burned down at one point or another and then were rebuilt. But it was White Bluffs is the one that you remember? Stewart: White Bluffs, and they didn’t rebuild. No, that was just right before it was-- Franklin: Right, right. We have some photos of that, yeah. A big blaze. Okay. And what about for church? Where did you go-- 0:32:17 Stewart: Well, we really didn’t go--we were too far. I would go with a friend or so. But we didn’t have any churches at Cold Crick or Vernita. There wasn’t anything. They didn’t have anything. Franklin: And Vernita at that time was still the ferry. Stewart: They had a cable ferry, and if you don’t think that wasn’t scary--that would drift across—I remember going across—my dad was so entrenched on building the Grand Coulee Dam. He was really interested in it. And Mom’s sister was running a motel in Coulee City. So about once a year, we’d make a trip up to Grand Coulee. Which was a really quite a trip in those days. Franklin: Oh, yeah. Stewart: And when you went across that ferry, it would drift way down and go up, and it was real sandy. We always had a shovel. We always had extra water and gas with us, and probably usually got stuck at least once. Well, we’d go up as far as Coulee City and stay all night with my aunt at the motel. And then the next day we’d make the trip clear in to see the dam and come back. I can remember where the water is now on Biggs Lake, all the farms that were between there. And I remember Dad saying, these people are going to have to move, and that’s just kind of like we were when we were little. I can remember that, just as plain. I wasn’t that old, but anyway. Yeah, I can remember that. Franklin: Right. That’s kind of ironic, isn’t it? You know, like going up and kind of—and not thinking that would-- Stewart: It could happen to you. Franklin: Yeah. Stewart: Yeah. But I can remember that just as plain, yeah. Franklin: That’s really neat. Were there any—I know you were just a kid for a lot of the time as you lived there, but were there any like bad or hard times when you were living there? Any memories that stick to you in that vein? 0:34:09 Stewart: You know, I don’t really remember because I think we were fairly well--you know, Dad didn’t have to pay for any water. And electricity. And he had cows—you had horses, so you didn’t have to buy gas. You think—we probably were pretty well sufficient. My mother was really a good cook, too. We usually had hired help. She had a gas lawnmower—I mean, a gas washer, and we washed out in the yard and then hung everything up. That was just the way you did it in those days. And she canned a lot, and we had a cellar. And Dad had it all fixed up with shelves for the fruit, you know. And like, for your potatoes—well, we ended up building a potato shed, Dad did, and sorted our own spuds in the later years there. Franklin: Wow. Stewart: Uh-huh. Franklin: Do you remember—did you know the Bruggemann family at all? Stewart: I did. I did. They weren’t very—they really weren’t very social. She was more so than him. Franklin: Oh, Paul was pretty-- Stewart: Yeah. I can remember them. And the kids were just little. Franklin: Right. Yes, they were, yeah. They were three and five I think when the eviction happened. And what about Allard? Did you know Sam Allard? Stewart: I don’t remember him, but I remember the name. But I knew people that lived on there, the Austins. And I-- Franklin: Right, Levi Austin. 0:35:43 Stewart: Levi Austin and--oh, shoot, what was their name? I can kind of remember those other people. At Vernita, there was about five orchards. Five or six soft fruit orchards. They weren’t very big. Because I think part of them, just irrigated from a well, like a pump. Because they had electricity at Vernita. And then part of them pumped it out of the river, I think. I think Richmond—Richmond was one name, and they had the ferry. Richmonds was their name, Tom Richmond. Franklin: Okay. Did you ever go all the way down to Richland at all or to the Tri-Cities? Stewart: Yes, we did, because Dad and Mom still had friends that lived down there. We used to go down and visit them. Yes, we did. But I don’t remember much. There wasn’t much at Richland. White Bluffs was bigger than Richland. Franklin: Right, right. I wanted to ask you about—so you were—the eviction happens and eventually you leave in October and you moved up to-- Stewart: Spokane. Franklin: Spokane. When did you start going to the reunions? 0:37:00 Stewart: You know, they’ve never mentioned anything in these books about it, but right after the war, they had picnics at Prosser. Franklin: In Prosser, yeah. Stewart: Yes. And we went to several of those. So my old friends that I went to school with, I can remember that. Franklin: And how long did you go to those for? Do you remember, how many years? Stewart: Well, it seemed like only a couple of years, and then of course I went off to college and I didn’t—we didn’t go—I don’t remember how long they had the ones at Prosser. Not very long, I don’t think. Franklin: No, yeah, we didn’t include much about it in the book, because we didn’t—the information we had about them really comes from 1968 on when they started meeting in Richland. Stewart: Yeah. And then we used to go to all those. We went to them all. Franklin: You went to all of those? Stewart: Yeah, most of them, yeah. Franklin: Were you able—have you been able to go back to the homestead since the Hanford Site-- 0:27:54 Stewart: Yeah, there’s nothing there. [LAUGHTER] Yes, I have! [LAUGHTER] But, yeah, our old spud shed was the only thing that was left there. There was nothing, you know. You knew they took our water and piped it 18 miles to the first reactor. Franklin: Yeah, I’ve heard that, yeah. Stewart: That was our well. Franklin: Yeah, that’s amazing. I mean, it was a gusher. Stewart: Ah, I’ll just show you a picture. Well, whenever you want. Go ahead. Franklin: Sure. Stewart: Go ahead and ask me. Yeah, we did, we used to have lots of social things, you know, like potlucks in the summertime. At least once or twice at different people’s places. Yeah, we never did--you know, we weren’t lacking for social things. Franklin: Oh, sure. Stewart: Raymond, what were you going to say? Martinez: Can I say something off the record? Franklin: Sure. Yeah, let’s take a little pause. Hungate: Sure. [VIDEO CUTS] Franklin: So you sorted-- Stewart: Apricots-- Franklin: There was a packing shed down by the-- Stewart: At Riverland, yeah. Martinez: When you go down the hill, before you get to the bridge, there’s kind of a dip, the railroad went through there. Stewart: It’s right there. Martinez: You can see where the railroad track was. Stewart: Right there, right there. Martinez: There was a packing shed right there on the railroad track. And then the livestock corral was right next to it where they’d load the sheep to go to Montana or wherever. Stewart: Cattle. Oh, yeah. Franklin: So, and Riverlands was kind of the stop for Bruggemann’s, because Bruggemann’s was the Riverlands Ranch. Martinez: Yeah. Franklin: Right? Is that correct? Stewart: Yeah. Franklin: okay. Martinez: The packing warehouse is right practically on the Bruggemann ranch. Stewart: Yeah, practically on there. Right there. Franklin: And you worked there when you were 13? Stewart: 13 years old. Right when the war started. Martinez: Everybody worked there. Stewart: Everybody worked there! Franklin: Everybody worked there. [LAUGHTER] Martinez: No child labor laws then! Stewart: No, there sure wasn’t! Franklin: You know, I grew up on a farm as well, and there’s always-- Stewart: Did you? Franklin: Yes. Stewart: Where was that at? Franklin: In Alaska. Stewart: Oh, my gosh. Franklin: Yeah, a farm/nursery. Martinez: Well, Salvini was a pretty noted family down there. Stewart: Yes, they were. I remember them. Franklin: Salvini, okay. Stewart: Salvini. I don’t know if it was a-- Martinez: They moved to Sunnyside. Stewart: Oh, did they? Martinez: Yeah. Stewart: I knew the Killian girls really well because Maria and Sylvia were in my class. Martinez: You got that picture with the flume and the sheep and the horses in your book to show them? Two horses and all the-- Stewart: Yeah. Here’s the picture of the well in our can right there. In fact, you can have one of those, because that’s… Here’s the band. [LAUGHTER] Okay, which one are you talking about? Franklin: Oh, yeah, this, yes, I’ve seen this. Martinez: The one with the horses and the hay wagon and the--where the sheep are right behind him. Stewart: Can you see that? Martinez: It was one of your team of horses they used in the wintertime. Franklin: Oh, wow. Martinez: I know you had it; you had it last time I was here. Franklin: Tom, did you have any questions? Anything that came to your mind that you wanted to ask? Martinez: They built a-- 0:40:56 Hungate: When they were asked to move. Why? Franklin: Why--? Martinez: They built that wooden flume. Hungate: What did they speculate-- Franklin: Oh! Hungate: --was the reason they had to move? Franklin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, good. Hungate: Something for the war, but what? Because you can’t help but think, what is it? Martinez: They built a wooden flume for the well that went about three miles over toward the bluff. Hungate: And the mail came from Kennewick. Stewart: Right. Hungate: But you didn’t go shopping there-- Stewart: Not much. Hungate: You went to Yakima. Stewart: Well, not very much. We didn’t hardly go there very much. Hungate: But you said a couple times. Stewart: Yeah. Hungate: I mean, you didn’t go to the Tri-City area-- Stewart: Not very often; only to visit. Hungate: And that would seem to be closer? Stewart: Well, it probably was. Hungate: Maybe about halfway. Stewart: But my folks had friends in Kennewick; we’d go visit. That’s the only thing I can remember. Franklin: Yeah. Hungate: Yeah. 0:41:47 Stewart: Now, here’s something you might be interested in. This was in 1917, the first--my grandfather and another fellow dug a well. And it was only good probably part of the year when the water was running it. See what it was—yeah, isn’t that interesting? Franklin: I like this picture of the well and the guy standing next to it. Hungate: Oh, god. Franklin: That’s pretty neat. Wow. This one with the guy standing next to it. Stewart: Oh, yeah. Hungate: It’s a geyser! Franklin: Yeah, it’s a real gusher. Stewart: Now, this is my grand--is that the same? That isn’t the same one. Hungate: No. Franklin: No, it’s not. Stewart: Okay. This is my grandmother’s well. Look at that. Franklin: The Brown well. Oh, yeah, wow. Stewart: And when they hit that, they didn’t know how to cap it. Martinez: Cap it, yeah. Stewart: Oh, it ran on down; it just went way down in the crick, and they had a heck of a time trying to—yeah. Franklin: Phew, it’s just so—I mean, seeing this well in the treeless--you know. Stewart: Isn’t that something? Franklin: Yeah, it really is something. Stewart: Now here’s another picture of the White Bluffs band. My brother was in it. Franklin: Oh, wow. Hungate: Oh, wow. Franklin: Oh, yeah, there’s that--your brother in Pullman. That thing is still--that’s right outside of the Murrow Building. It’s right outside--it’s right by the old women’s dorm. I know right where this is. Because I’ve been there, like, many times. Hungate: Oh, the memorial? Franklin: Yeah, the little-- Hungate: The veterans’ memorial ting? Franklin: Yes, that’s where it is now. It didn’t always be that, but there it is on the campus. Smart-looking guy. Stewart: Where did you live in Pullman? Franklin: Oh, so I did my master’s in Pullman. Stewart: Oh, you did? Franklin: So I lived in Pullman, and then Tom lived in Pullman for quite a while. Stewart: Okay. Franklin: Yeah. And you said you went to school-- 0:43:36 Stewart: I went to Pullman, yeah. The first year I went, it was--I graduated in ‘47, that fall, and they had just built these dorms for the women and then there was 400 girls, freshman girls and there was 1300 boys. That’s when everyone came home. It was Quonset huts or whatever it is they were. Franklin: Yes. Stewart: You remember that? Well, you probably don’t remember that. Franklin: I did a lot of university history, and I remember the photos, because after the war, they struggled to find places to put all these new students that they had given the GI Bill. Stewart: Well, then the next two years, I was up on the campus at Davis Hall. Up on the-- Hungate: Mm-hmm. Franklin: Yup. Still there. Hungate: Still there. Franklin: Still there. Stewart: I’m sure it is! [LAUGHTER] I didn’t graduate—I didn’t finish, but I got to go for two-and-a-half years. Martinez: Shirley, Shirley, let me see your photos. I’ll find the picture. Franklin: So, Shirley, I had a couple more questions. Stewart: Here. Martinez: Just a minute. Franklin: Okay. Stewart: I don’t know where I put it. Franklin: Oh, I’m sure we have it. When you got the notice to move, I imagine that it must’ve been shocking. Stewart: Terrible shock. Franklin: But I also imagine people must’ve been speculating why. You know, why would they move all these--so do you remember anything about that time? 0:45:00 Stewart: Well, I remember, it was just such a shock, I remember that. And I can remember my mom said, Chester, what are we going to do? I can remember Mama saying that. That was the—what were we gonna do? But Dad never got--I said, and my brother mentions in his book that he was so—he felt that we needed to do something. Franklin: Right, he was very patriotic. Stewart: Very, very, very. Franklin: Did people--did you have-- Stewart: Some of them weren’t. Franklin: Did you ever wonder kind of what was going to happen to all this farmland? Stewart: Oh, yeah! Franklin: Why would the government take it? Stewart: How can they take it with all that fruit hanging on the trees? Franklin: Right. 0:45:45 Stewart: I don’t remember very much about Vernita, those people saying much. I don’t remember. And I don’t think Dad let us hear anybody’s really having a big fit over anything. We knew some of them did, though. I can remember a family or two. Franklin: Do you remember when you found out what—why it was taken? Do you remember when you found out about the dropping of the bomb and that-- Stewart: Oh. We felt-- Franklin: --had happened now at Hanford. Stewart: Then we felt like we had done the right thing. To be real honest with you. That’s the way Dad talked. And whatever he gave up, he felt that it saved all of us. That’s the way my family were. Franklin: Sure. I imagine that must’ve been-- Stewart: And of course my brother was in the service, you know? Franklin: Yeah, yeah. I imagine that must’ve been a big shock, too, right? Stewart: Oh, it was! Franklin: That that had happened in what had been your home. 0:46:41 Stewart: Yeah. And to think of leaving it. That was hard, yeah. But anyway, with Dad—and then after the war, of course, Dad didn’t—they didn’t need the guards anymore. So he decided—he knew he wanted to locate back in the Basin. But he didn’t want to start another farm, because that was--so he suited an old pickup and sold auto parts. There were jobbers in those days. So he got an idea of maybe he could find a place that he’d like to take over. And that’s what he did. He found a place in Stratford, and it was a little grocery store and service station. And he just loved that. He did. It was kind of a, everybody would come in and have coffee in the morning and that type of thing. They were putting in the Long Lake Dam and the canals just when Dad first bought that. So he had all these workers in there for a number of years, which worked really good—he did really well. Franklin: Where was this again? Stewart: Stratford. Out of Moses Lake, straight north from Moses Lake. There’s Stratford Road that goes just out of Soap Lake. You know where Soap Lake is? Franklin: Kind of. I think you probably know that area a lot better, Tom. Stewart: In Ephrata. Hungate: Near Ephrata. Stewart: Ephrata. Franklin: Tom was based in Wenatchee for a long time. Stewart: Yeah, so Ephrata, yeah. Franklin: Okay, interesting. So is that where he and your mom settled, out there? Stewart: Yeah. That’s where we settled, and they had it for about 20 years. My mother passed away--he was there about five or six years after Mom died. Anyway, yeah. And he really—and then later, there was a lot of hunting and fishing, so then he sold a lot of fishing and shells and stuff, you know, and lunch, mostly lunch-type things. So that worked really good for him, people hunting and they’d come in there. Franklin: Yeah. And your brother was in the service in the war. Stewart: Yes. Franklin: When did leave for the war? And was he in the service when you were evicted? Stewart: No. Franklin: Okay. 0:49:00 Stewart: No. He was, I think--let’s see--graduated--’40. He graduated in 1940. He was in college. Franklin: Oh, okay, so he was in Pullman. Stewart: Let me see. He was at Pullman. Franklin: How did he take the news--how did he-- Stewart: Well-- Franklin: When you got the notice, how did he-- Stewart: I just don’t remember. I don’t’ remember. But I do know that then he got in the B12 training his second year at WSU. And then that summer he was sent back east to finish getting his—in the Navy. And he was a lieutenant. Franklin: And what did he do after the war? Now that he kind of couldn’t come back. Stewart: Oh. He came back to Pullman and finished and got his degree in agronomy. Franklin: Okay, that’s right, you mentioned that. 0:49:45 Stewart: And he worked about three or four years in Colfax. They lived in Colfax. And then he got a really good job out of Vancouver, and he was there for a number of years, eleven years I think. And then he was sent to Silverton, Oregon, and then finally ended up the head guy out of Salem, Oregon, the head guy, yeah. He did that all those years. Franklin: And then you eventually came here to where we are. You said you’ve been here 66 years. Stewart: Yeah, uh-huh. [LAUGHTER] Yeah! Yeah. My husband was a cowboy. Franklin: Yeah? Stewart: And my kids are cowboys. [LAUGHTER] I have one grandson that was in the national finals twice. Franklin: Wow. Stewart: Yeah, and he’s team roper. That was in ‘99. And then 2000--let’s see, ’98 and ‘99 and 2000 he went to the national finals in team roping. Well, then after that, he got hurt. [VIDEO FILE CORRUPTED] Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Shirley Stewart Subject The topic of the resource Hanford (Wash.) White Bluffs (Wash.) Description An account of the resource Shirley Stewart's father, Chester McGee, settled in the Cold Creek area and drilled the last, and one of the largest, artesian wells on the central plateau. Shirley grew up on the McGee homestead and attended school in White Bluffs. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1/17/2020 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Language A language of the resource English Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford Oral History Project operated under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who were the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to the US Department of Energy collection. https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F442defa11603ec797087a6eada962adb.png 4ca9334c4c80ca90e287a85b11855483 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fbc7ae1397d70a4dc5c19d5593d8ca3ec.mp4 fe179ab07e4b99d8246dfe52287afc42 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pre-1943 Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Description An account of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert Franklin Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Brenda Kupfer, Roy Satoh, Linda Reiko Adkinson and Bruce Yamauchi Location The location of the interview Washington State University - Tri Cities Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Robert Franklin: My name is Robert Franklin. I am conducting an oral history interview with Bob Bauman and Brenda Kupfer, Roy Satoh, Linda Reiko Adkinson and Bruce Yamauchi on September 18, 2018. The interview is being conducted on the campus of Washington State University Tri-Cities. I will be talking with Brenda, Roy, Linda and Bruce about their family’s history in Pasco and the Tri-Cities. For the record, can you state and spell your full names for us, starting to my left with Brenda? Brenda [Bea] Kupfer: Brenda Joyce Kupfer. [LAUGHTER] B-R-E-N-D-A. J-O-Y-C-E. K-U-P-F-E-R. Franklin: Great. Roy Satoh: Roy Masashi Satoh. R-O-Y. M-A-S-A-S-H-I. S-A-T-O-H. Linda Adkinson: Linda Reiko Adkinson. L-I-N-D-A. R-E-I-K-O. A-D-K-I-N-S-O-N. Bruce Yamauchi: Charles Bruce Yamauchi. C-H-A-R-L-E-S. B-R-U-C-E. Y-A-M-A-U-C-H-I. Franklin: Great, thank you. Robert Bauman: All right, got the formalities out of the way now. Franklin: Yes. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: I wonder if we could start with having you talk about your grandparents, Harry and Cheka Yamauchi. What brought them to the United States, what brought them to Pasco, as much as their, sort of, history that you know about based on talking to them or stories from their parents, et cetera. And whoever wants to start that. Adkinson: Well, Grandpa and Grandma arrived from Hawai’i in 1906. I can’t remember the date, but I do remember what happened on that date in San Francisco, great earthquake. Bauman: That same date, wow. Adkinson: Uh-huh. And Grandma thought that the world was coming to an end, and she was fated to a great tragedy. Because all she could see what fire and smoke. So from there, they went to, I think it was Cashmere first, with the railroad. He got the job from the railroad—in Hawai’i, they have a dispatch sort of a center, a labor ready center. If your name came up to what they had pegged you for that you might do a good job, that’s how you were allowed to come. So they were there for a short time, and then moved to Pasco. Franklin: Do you know what island they emigrated from? Adkinson: What islands? Gosh. Well, I think the original Yamauchi family was from O’ahu? Kupfer: O’ahu? Maybe? Adkinson: I think. Although Hawai’i is considered agricultural, so I’m not sure. Yamauchi: That was agricultural back then. Adkinson: It was agricultural back then. Yeah, probably so. Yamauchi: Not a tourist trap. Bauman: So they had gone to Hawai’i for plantation labor? Adkinson: Yes, yes. Grandpa was the third son, I believe. And of course, as in Europe, if you’re not the first son, you’re sort of out of it. And you need to find your own way in life. Bauman: Were your grandparents married, did they leave Japan as a married couple, or did they meet in Hawai’i? Do you know how--? Adkinson: I think they got married in Japan, did they not? Satoh: I think. Yes. Adkinson: I think so. Bauman: Okay. Franklin: So it was the railroad that brought them to Pasco? Adkinson: Mm-hmm, yeah. Yup. Bauman: So when they first came to Pasco, your grandfather was working for the railroad? Adkinson: Yes. Bauman: How long did he do that, do you know? And at some point, they started some businesses, is that correct? If you could talk about some of that. Adkinson: Yes, they did. I’m surprised at how fast that went, because he became—I have pictures showing him with a grocery store. I know he had a fish market. There was a pool hall, and there was a hotel. And then back to the M. & M. restaurant, which most Pasco natives became real familiar with, and that was prior to—that would be the last thing before Pearl Harbor. So it was in the ‘30s that they had acquired this restaurant that people would go to in crowds. They would stand in line to get in. Bauman: Yeah, that’s a lot of businesses. Adkinson: That’s a lot of businesses. Franklin: Yeah. Bauman: Right. So, I assume, then, he was no longer working for the railroad at that point if he was operating businesses. Adkinson: Yeah, he—I don’t know when the last Yamauchi son was born. Uncle Bob was the youngest. But by then, pretty much it worked like machinery. I know my dad had to start the fire in the morning, do all that kinds of stuff from the time he was about seven or eight years old. So he had his own labor crew working to help with that, along with his wife, who did all the housekeeping when they had the hotel, and a lot of some interesting stories came out of that. But anyway, he was an entrepreneur. I think you might have read in the historical society, he would take Aunt Mary, who was only ten, as an interpreter—much as the immigrants do today; you see them in the grocery stores or the doctors’ offices and so forth—to the city council meeting. At the time, he brought gifts, like candy. And they told him, no, Harry, you can’t do that. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: But you said, it was Mary? He would bring his daughter, Mary, to the meetings to kind of— Adkinson: Yeah, to interpret for him, uh-huh. Bauman: Interesting. Maybe you could talk a little bit, then, about their children, your parents. Maybe if you could each talk and say which of their children were your parents and a little bit about them, each of them as well, maybe? So again with Brenda, if you want to— Kupfer: My mother was the second-born. Cashmere, Washington, she was born. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: Do you know what year that was? What year she was born? Kupfer: She was born in 1906. No, 1907. Sorry. Adkinson: Yeah. 1907. Kupfer: Yeah, she can’t be born the same year as-- Satoh: No, Mom was ’05. Kupfer: ’05? Okay. She was born in 1907 in Cashmere. Bauman: And her name was? Kupfer: Cheoko. Bauman: Cheoko. Kupfer: Yamauchi. Bauman: Okay. And Roy? Satoh: My mother was the first-born. In Hawai’i, in Honolulu. That was partially the reason that they were there, because she was pregnant and ready to deliver. Her Japanese name is Harue. When she started school, they had a hard time, the Americans, the Caucasians, had a hard time pronouncing that. They called her everything from hallelujah, eventually watered that down to just Lou, L-O-U. Franklin: Could you spell that Japanese? Satoh: Uh. Franklin: If you can. Satoh: [LAUGHTER] I would butcher it up. It’s H-A-R-U-A-Y-A, I believe. Franklin: Okay. But she was kind of colloquially known as Lou. Satoh: Lou, yes. Kupfer: Do you want me to look it up? Satoh: Huh? Kupfer: I got it on that paper. Satoh: Oh. [LAUGHTER] Anyway, one of—being the firstborn, she took on a lot of the responsibilities as many firstborn children do, you know. One of the goals in her life was to go to college. She was the first Asian American to graduate from the Pasco school system. She was the class valedictorian, graduated with honors. But being she was the oldest and had the responsibility of the younger children, in those days, girls didn’t go to school. They worked. So she eventually became a bookkeeper. But she helped in the restaurants and the different businesses. She particularly enjoyed the pool hall. She was quite the pool player. In my youth, I remember her buying a miniature pool table, setting it up on the card table or whatever it was. We would play pool on this miniature table. But in her day, I guess she was quite the pool shark. Bauman: I think I’ve seen a photo in a restaurant, possibly, or maybe the store, of two of the daughters, and I’m guessing maybe it’s the two oldest. Lou and Cheoko, possibly? I don’t remember. But it’s the grandparents, Harry and Cheka, and then two of the daughters, I think, and must’ve been, I’m guessing— Kupfer: Probably the oldest, yeah. Bauman: Yeah. All right, Linda, your parents? Adkinson: My dad was the first son born, so that made him more or less responsible, as he went through his growing up years, when it came time for the two next brothers down. They wanted to go to college. And they were enrolled at the University of Washington. One of them was already, I think, was still there when Pearl Harbor hit. I’m pretty sure that was the way it went. Anyway, he was responsible for putting them through. So his wishes were dashed, because he had the family responsibility. So his growing up years was a little disappointing. He wanted to get into construction, like all of his friends were in Pasco. There were so many of them that didn’t go to school or weren’t able to go to school. The first thing they would head for would be some kind of construction work. His wish was that, until Pearl Harbor. So that was dashed also. My grandparents lived with us since I was born. So we were more of a family unit with a matriarch and a patriarch. Yeah, which he deferred to. Bauman: And what was his first name? Adkinson: Charles. Bauman: Charles, okay. I believe I’ve seen some photos of you with your grandparents when you were a beauty pageant winner, or some sort of pageant? Adkinson: Oh, the Water Follies. Pasco was the one that had the Water Follies, locally. And then after 1959, Kennewick and Richland’s weren’t doing so well; they decided to combine into the Tri-Cities Water Follies. So, yeah. Bauman: Okay. And you grew up with your grandparents there, so [inaudible]. Adkinson: I did, I did, from the time I was little. So the time in Spokane was pretty idyllic. One thing I want to say about Spokane, I was baptized in the United Methodist Church there at four. This lady, her name was Mrs. Black. When Pearl Harbor came, she stood up with a lot of the women in those days, and I guess they stood up against the internment. The church that we’d gone to, we weren’t able to go to. Instead, she single-handedly turned that deserted church, then, into a church that welcomed Japanese Americans and Asians of any kind that were not allowed to be going to the other church. So we were raised there, and I have to give her kudos. She must’ve been some lady. Bauman: And this was United Methodist Church in Spokane, you said? Adkinson: Yeah. United Methodist, uh-huh. Bauman: Great. And definitely want to get back to World War II experiences, family experiences, but I want to get to Bruce first and then go back. Yamauchi: My father was Charles. So, same as—she’s my sister. But I can make mention of the other brothers and sisters, or uncles and aunts for us. There’s Lou was the first, Cheoko was the second. Mary was the third. Charles was the fourth. Now I’m going to need help. George? Then Frances. Adkinson: Yeah. Yamauchi: Then Jimmy, then Bob. Adkinson: Is that eight? Yamauchi: I don’t know. Adkinson: No, you missed Hannah. [ALL]: Hannah. Bauman: Where would Hannah have been in the— Adkinson: They actually— Kupfer: She was after Aunt Mary. Adkinson: Her gravestone says 1911. Dad was born in December of 1911, and apparently she was born in January. Bauman: Okay. Adkinson: I don’t know how that worked out. I still don’t know. So they were very close. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: Okay. So, I guess, I don’t know, maybe if we could talk about your parents’ experiences, parents’, grandparents’ experiences during World War II. What that meant for your grandparents, for your parents, how they experienced it? Whoever wants to jump in, we’ll have all four of you at some point talk about that. Yamauchi: They didn’t really talk about it that much. It was kind of in the past. I came along much later. But it was in the past, and they didn’t want to dwell on it. Adkinson: But, Roy, you should tell about your mom in Japan. Satoh: Yeah, well, as a lot of the Japanese residents and Japanese American were rounded it up and interned in many, many camps across the west coast. My dad was a businessman. He worked for an import/export company in Portland and Seattle; they had branches in both cities. He had a lot of business contacts with other Japanese businessmen, companies. So when they interned him, he was shipped to Montana, which was a little bit more than a typical internment camp. The government was more concerned about him, because of his business contacts. Of course, my mom, with an infant son, followed him to Montana. At that time, it wasn’t the best time of year. So when they eventually released him, he was given the choice to go to a regular internment camp or go back to Japan. He was kind of disgruntled with the way that he and his family had been treated, so he chose to go back to Japan. They crossed the country from Washington to New York, got on a steamer, and sailed to South Africa. There, they got off the American line ship and boarded a Japanese liner. The American officials and ambassadors that were in Japan at that time then were coming back to the states on that particular ship, and then returned to the United States. So anyway, they ended up back in a small farming community in Japan. The people there thought enough of my dad that eventually they elected him mayor of that small community. But my mother, being an American, she was looked down upon. Got kind of ostracized. She was the foreigner, she was the American, the enemy. So after—well, my dad died there of cancer, but the war was still going on. My brother had passed—infant brother had passed away from diphtheria. So she was there pretty much alone with me, an infant son. Again, she was ostracized for being American, so there wasn’t much help from the local community. I remember hearing stories later about the family here in the United States sending care packages to her in Japan, which oftentimes, she didn’t receive. She struggled for a couple years until the war ended. When the people there realized that they were not going to win the war, then they came to my mother and asked her to teach them English. So she had some income and some support in that sense. Finally, in 1950 then, she brought me back to the States after the war had settled. Bauman: Yeah, that must’ve been a really difficult time for her. Was she able to communicate at all with letters in any way during the war, do you know, with the family members here? Satoh: I, again, like most Japanese that were interned, very little oral history. They just didn’t speak about it, you know. I know my mother was a collector. She saved everything. But I have not seen too much of what pertained there. I’ve seen those old, old, I think they’re airmail letters that’s written on that real thin tissue paper type stuff. I’ve seen those, but I didn’t take the opportunity to read them. I’m assuming a lot of them were written in Japanese. Bauman: So, you said she came back in 1950? You with her, right? Satoh: Yes, yes. Bauman: So how old were you at that point? Satoh: So I was just five. Bauman: Okay. And do you have any memories of being in Japan at all? Satoh: [LAUGHTER] Very—especially now, very few. I’ve seen photographs. Again, my father was well-to-do, so they owned a nice home on a hill, rice paddies, and a mountain. The mountain was so they could collect firewood, and then of course, I don’t know how big the rice paddy was, but I’ve heard stories of them going out and getting fish in the rice paddy, and of course harvesting the grain. The few things that I do remember are mostly from photographs, is I had a little dog. Again, photographs of the countryside and things like that. Up to, I don’t know, maybe 20 years ago, I used to be able to remember the flavor of a Japanese popsicle. Of course, having come over to the States at age five, everything that I knew prior to that was basically in Japanese. I could relate to them in Japanese words. So it was—well, our grandparents, even, shunned anyone from speaking Japanese in the home. They knew it was important for them, for their children to succeed in this country, and they knew if they relied on Japanese, that was not going to help them succeed in a country where English was the primary language. So when I learned English, all my recollection being in Japanese just kind of faded. Adkinson: Except he knew Roy Rogers. Satoh: Yeah. Adkinson: That’s how he got his name. Bauman: Oh, okay. So that’s where the Roy came from. Satoh: Yeah, that’s where the Roy came from. Her brother, Roger, when they asked me what American name I wanted, because the only—Masashi was my given name, and the only two words I knew were Roy Rogers. Her brother Roger—and my Aunt Mary loved to tell this story—she said, Roger would say, you can’t be Roger, because I’m already Roger! And Aunt Mary loved to tell that story. Hence, Roy was the name I picked. Bauman: Uh-huh. And so when you and your mother came back in 1950, you came back to Pasco? Satoh: Yes, yes. Bauman: Came back here, then, okay. So others of you, if you want to talk about your parents, Brenda, during the war, what happened? Adkinson: Bea, I think that Jean, probably, if they wanted to know it all from the family, would be her. Kupfer: Yeah. My sister, Jean Kazawa, was interviewed a few years ago, and she related a lot of the history of what happened in the camp. Adkinson: And we have copies, right? Kupfer: I have a copy, yeah. But I think the historical society has one, too. Bauman: Oh, okay. Adkinson: And it’s detailed. Kupfer: Yeah, it’s very detailed. I have no recollection, since I was born after they were released from Heart Mountain. Bauman: So your parents were sent to Heart Mountain? Kupfer: My mother and father and four siblings were sent to Heart—well, by way of Portland stockyards or whatever it was called. Bauman: So they were sent to Portland first, and from there to— Kupfer: Yeah, and they were sent to Heart Mountain, Wyoming. Which we couldn’t understand why, you know, clear down there. And my dad worked for the railroad also. Bauman: Okay. Now, did your parents live in Benton County, then? Kupfer: Well, that’s what I understand, is they lived in Kennewick. I remember them talking about living in Plymouth—or my sister talking about Plymouth, but I don’t know. Franklin: And where is Plymouth? Adkinson: About 20 minutes—it’s right at the river where— Kupfer: Just before you cross over into Umatilla— Adkinson: On the McNary Dam? Franklin: Oh. Bauman: Yeah. Adkinson: Plymouth is just west— Bauman: Sort of on the State Route 14 there. Kupfer: Yeah. Adkinson: My only recollection of Pearl Harbor—I mean, of those years, was there were four of us cousins born in 1941. So it was a little inauspicious. But Dad, being in the position he was, became very industrious in those years, because he not only was working to get his mother and dad out of Arkansas. It came time, George, my uncle George, when they finally allowed the Japanese Americans to join the service, he was out, but his wife and child, Terry, was another ’41-er, and were also interned someplace. So Dad also worked to get him out. And then there was another situation in which he needed to get some sponsorships. So he was very busy. And I tell you, the Pasco natives that were friends, and a lot of them I think, became friends, because Grandpa was a fellow small business person. So they, through that connection, I think they all got to know each other a little more than ordinarily. So most of those years, I remember lots of letters being written. A lot of—I have a couple of them. My uncle George wrote to the Tri-City Herald in that time. I put that in the paper because it was just a plea to remember who we all were. Bauman: I’ve actually used that letter in my classes. Adkinson: Oh, have you really? Bauman: I’ve had my students read that letter. Adkinson: Yeah, he was in the go-for-broke thing. Bauman: It’s such an amazing letter, very poignant letter addressing, really, the heart of a lot of the issues, right? Adkinson: Yes. Yeah, it really went to the point. Yeah. So he was more active then in more or less just getting his family back together. That was really his job. He wasn’t allowed to join the service as he would have loved to have done, because he had a physical heart problem. So that was something he was very disappointed in. So I think that’s why he got involved. Because ordinarily he was a pretty quiet person. Bauman: So I just want to clarify, which family members then were sent to internment camps? I know your grandparents were initially. Your parents were. Adkinson: Aunt Mary was living in Pasco. Aunt Mary, her situation was, you might as well say, she was alone. She had a terrible time, because of course they had to close the restaurant; it was closed down. There were some problems between different legion things that happened. She got a job with a local lumberyard and finally was able to survive and support herself. In the meantime, Auntie Fran’s husband, she was a Koyama, and Uncle Spadie joined immediately. He, at wherever point was—they started a school in San Francisco for native Japanese American guys who maybe knew the language, could read, write, interpret and that sort of thing, so it meant that they might have spent time in Japan. Uncle Spadie was an ideal candidate, and they went searching for all of these men. There were, I think, 5,000 they came up with, and went to school. That became a secret for years and years and years. Learned—well, he was in the Army, so he worked under MacArthur in the Pacific, which is where these men were. And a lot of times, you know, people would not believe me when I said I had an uncle who was serving in the Pacific—who had served. But that was his job, was to interpret. He was guarded by any blonde, fair-skinned soldier as a bodyguard to keep from, you know, keep him safe. And in turn, a couple of them lost their lives guarding him. In turn, he named his children, two of his boys after those two men. So Fran was, I believe, in internment, but I don’t know where. Bauman: Okay. And then George was initially, and then was able to join the military? Adkinson: He also joined. He had a hearing problem. He was the next-to-the-youngest, and he would’ve been old enough. But he worked at what they called the icehouse at the railroad center out there, and that was considered a security thing because they were used as a supply route. So he was there. So since he lived in Pasco then, he didn’t have to go. Bauman: Mm-hmm. And you mentioned—so, your Aunt Mary was in Pasco and kind of taking care of some of the business, had to close the restaurant, is that right? Adkinson: Yeah, yeah. Bauman: Was it lack of business, was there, you know, some— Adkinson: I don’t know if they were ordered to close it. I would assume that might have been so. Now, my dad, when he had this land in Kennewick, he bought that land, a farmhouse and five acres where the Angus Village is, from the owner, properties. And when Pearl Harbor hit, he came to my dad and he said, Charlie, he said, we don’t know what’s going to happen. So he said, I’m returning your money. So he gave him the money that Dad paid, which was all of $500, and gave it to him. So we have stories like that all over. My mother’s family was from the Hood River Valley. The neighboring orchardist came to my uncle and said, I’ll take care of your farm for you. And he did. So it was, you know, lots of those stories don’t get told, and I wish they would be. Because it’s important. Bauman: So after the war, they were able to come back and their farm was still there? Adkinson: Well, in Hood River, it was a little different. When he got out of—when the family got out of internment camp, they were sent to—they lived in Ontario, Oregon. Bauman: Okay. Adkinson: And they were supposed to stay there a year and they thought it would be okay to move back to Hood River. The term was it was still “hot,” so they stayed two years. In turn, he turned that orchard that was a rental place that he was living on into a profit. So he was actually able to return and be able to have a start on regaining his orchard and going right back to work. He was prepared for that. But they went so far as having a memorial where my two uncles on my mother’s side were not on the memorial. Their names were finally put in, I think, in the ‘80s or ‘90s in town. Bauman: You mentioned earlier that your grandparents were sent to Arkansas. I wondered if you could talk about that a little bit more? When we were talking before we started the interview, you mentioned a little bit more about why that happened and efforts to sort of have them removed from there or whatever. I wondered if you could kind of discuss that. Adkinson: I don’t know what the conditions were. Terry still lives—actually resettled and he’s a doctor. He resettled in Arkansas and some of his things were to dig into it, into the history of what that place was like in those days. He would have information on that. But to get Grandma and Grandpa out, apparently there was a military board, some kind of a board here in Tri-Cities that oversaw—especially, I suppose, the alien situation. So they applied to there, and after, I think it was four prominent families from Pasco who said they would sponsor them if they would allow them to come back from Arkansas. And then they had my father’s promise that he would be responsible and move inland, away from Pasco. So that’s why we ended up in Spokane until after the war. Bauman: That’s right, in Spokane. That was considered farther away? [LAUGHTER] Adkinson: I guess it was inland enough. The Columbia River didn’t go right through Spokane, so. Bauman: Right. Franklin: Well, and there was the Big Pasco operation, just with all of that military supplies moving— Bauman: Mm-hmm, and Hanford. Adkinson: Naval base was there. Franklin: And Hanford. Adkinson: And the Naval base was there, too. Franklin: So that makes sense in that context, I guess. Adkinson: Sure. Bauman: Right. Adkinson: Yeah. Franklin: Even though it’s really not—on a map, it’s not that much more inland. Adkinson: Well, I think after the war, it’s interesting, because Camp Hanford, there was a bus system. So there was travel between the three cities. My feeling was that a lot of the soldiers, particularly if they were Asian, it was suggested that if they wanted to go to a café or anything like that, they could go to Pasco, because they would be welcome there. Consequently, Dad was inundated with some young men in the Army who would get off the bus on the corner and go down a block on Lewis Street there and go into the café and have a meal or whatever. Yeah. Bauman: Just clarifying a little bit more that, your grandparents were sent to Arkansas, was that because they had been born in Japan and were Japanese nationals, is that why they were sent to Arkansas, or was it because they lived in Pasco, or both, or do you know? Adkinson: Because they were Japanese natives, yeah. Bauman: Okay. Adkinson: As I say, they couldn’t be citizens, so they always had to go into the post office and sign those—it’s a card. Bauman: Oh, with the registration. Adkinson: You had to say, yeah, that I am. Every year they did that, even after the war. Bauman: Hmm. Wow. I wonder, then, if you could talk about after the war, what was it like, either from your perspective, being in Tri-Cities, those of you who were here, in Pasco, what it was like after the war for your family, your families? Adkinson: Well, when I moved down in the third grade—we moved back in ’49, we were able to come back. And Dad partnered with his sister in the restaurant. I started third grade at Whittier. And I’d have to say, in Spokane, also, I had no trouble at all as a child. It just wasn’t done. The only thing, I didn’t have any knowledge or knew any African American children in Spokane. But I did at Whittier. So it was—when I look back on it, I was really thankful, because we had some interesting, very, very good teachers. One was an ex-Navy guy who became a teacher. He was at the Naval base. He was fantastic. But going through school in the ‘50s, of course, everybody says it was the happy ‘50s and that was true. For everyone. Of course they all thought we lived like Leave It to Beaver. And then maybe 50 years later, at my 50-year reunion, we found out it wasn’t exactly, you know, that way. Real life wasn’t quite that way in small town Pasco. But at the time, we all had that attitude. Now, Bruce and Roy and Bea went through the ‘60s. I think there was a time, that was a decade of, ’60 to ’70 was a decade of—and my children had a little bit about that in the late ‘60s—that caused an awful lot of turmoil. Which we never—we weren’t used to. Yeah. And they desegregated, for instance, Pasco, the restaurants, even Pasco was ordered. If a person came from the eastside, and came in for a cup of coffee, you had better serve them. So there was some of that going on, which never—we never had a problem with before. So it was really interesting, I think, especially after Kennedy was assassinated. To me, that was a big turning point. Bauman: So did all of you, then, grow up mostly in Pasco? [ALL]: Yes. Kupfer: Graduated Pasco High. Satoh: Pasco High graduates. Bauman: Okay, and-- Franklin: Oh, sorry. And all in east Pasco? Adkinson: No, the younger ones, by the time I was in the fourth or fifth grade, they started sending the younger ones to Longfellow School on the west side. But I continued to finish—so I had to cross the tracks, which was not supposed to be done, but I did. Kupfer: You did? Adkinson: It was dangerous. [LAUGHTER] Kupfer: You lived under the underpass? Adkinson: We went—we used to go under the underpass until Sarah Fukazawa and I ran into a problem under the underpass. Kupfer: Oh. Adkinson: And we were scared to go down there again, so. Bauman: So Bruce, Brenda, do you have some more experiences growing up in Pasco? Yamauchi: I didn’t experience any discriminations. Or I was oblivious to all that. More focus, ethnic-wise, in the ‘60s were the blacks. The Hispanic population wasn’t all that great, or large, at that time. But between me and my fellow students, I didn’t experience any problems. Adkinson: Was there any problems with the bussing? Yamauchi: I always walked to school or Mom took me. Adkinson: Oh. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: Brenda or Roy? Similar? Kupfer: Occasionally in middle school? Someone would say something, you know, discriminatory. But for the most part, no. Satoh: I felt that because of our restaurant, our family was known quite widely, especially in Pasco. In fact, Mesa, Eltopia, some of the Japanese families up the valley even would come into Pasco and eat at our family restaurant. But growing up—well, Brenda and I, we started kindergarten out at the air base. And then I think I went to Whittier for a year and a half or thereabouts. I can’t remember when Longfellow was built. But then we went to—attended Longfellow. I don’t know if it was the proximity—we lived on First and Lewis, which is right near the entrance to the underpass, and of course, we were exposed to a lot of the, in those days it was the hobos, transients. There was a small Chinese community, and they had the opium dens and the underground tunnels. Adkinson: But do you think they were there when we were growing up? I don’t think they were there when— Satoh: I don’t know. I really don’t know. But I do know there was a house of ill repute just down the street from us. I remember playing down the street and seeing ladies up on the second story balcony in their kimonos, having their cigarettes or whatever. None the wiser. We were out there playing in the dirt. Adkinson: They weren’t oriental, though. Satoh: No, no, they weren’t oriental, that’s true. But the caution that our parents tried to instill upon us was not so much any of the dangers that kids face these days, you know. We played all over the neighborhood. And we had a close-knit Japanese community there. There was, I think four families that lived within a few blocks of each other. We kind of grew up with those families. Bauman: Do you know who those families were, what their last names were? Satoh: Ogata. Bauman: Mm-hmm. Satoh: Ono. Yes, Ono. Fukazawa. Was there any others? Kupfer: I think that’s it. Satoh: I think that was it. Adkinson: Well, then we had the Wong Howes and Johnny Lou’s family. So there were two Chinese families, too. Bauman: And were those families there before the war, as well, do you know? Adkinson: The Wong Howes were definitely. And the Onos were, as far as I know. Bauman: Okay. Adkinson: Ogatas had the little tiny laundry across the street from us. But the Wong Howes had a famous cinematographer. Bauman; Right, right, I’ve heard of that. James Wong Howe. Adkinson: Right. I think Picnic and some of the others were his. Yeah, yeah. Bauman: So the other Japanese American families, the Ogatas, the Onos, was it? Satoh: Yeah. Bauman: Do you know what happened with them during the war? Or in Pasco, were they able to stay there? Adkinson: I’m sure—I don’t know if they went to internment, do you? Satoh: No, I don’t know either. Adkinson: Many of the Ogatas had at least two teachers in the family—oh, Ted was also a teacher. So they stayed in the area and taught. Bauman: Oh, okay. Adkinson: The Onos worked at various jobs and stuff. They were more along my dad’s thinking about hunting and fishing when they grew up, it was hunting and fishing all the time. For sustenance as well as for just the sport of doing that. Their growing up years consisted of doing all these chores around the house and so forth, but as soon as they were able, they were either at the river, on the river, or off in the fields hunting. Yeah. So their childhood was sort of like I would expect it to be for any early American in those years. Before Pearl Harbor. Franklin: Did you or your parents ever have any issues with treatment in Kennewick? With the police there or refusal of service or anything like that? Adkinson: The only time I ever remembered actually experiencing that was in Richland at a woman’s clothing store. They just didn’t wait on me. But Mom and Dad, I can’t recall any time that, in Pasco or Kennewick that they had a problem. Of course, Kennewick was sort of off-limits. It didn’t bother us in high school. We would tootle across the old green bridge any time we wanted to. Kupfer: I don’t have that many memories of family, because my mother was the first to marry. She had her family. So I was not part of the growing-up that they were part of. I have different memories. Bauman: Mm-hmm. So where did you grow up then, did you--? Kupfer: I grew up in Pasco. But I know after Mom and Dad and the siblings were released, I know they spent some time in Payette, Idaho. And then slowly made their way back, but I don’t know when. My sister probably addressed that when she was interviewed. But basically I grew up in Pasco. Adkinson: And I think, too, your mom had so many responsibilities because your father had died. You know, in ’49 or something? Kupfer: Yeah, my dad passed in ’49. I was only three. Adkinson: So then there were five kids. And her only brother, Jerry, was involved in the Korean action. Kupfer: Korean, yeah. Even though he had been in camp— Adkinson: He was only 19. Kupfer: He also joined the service. He was in the Army. And was injured during the Korean War. Franklin: Wow. Kupfer: But, yeah, basically, just stayed in Pasco the whole time. Adkinson: That was quite different, though. The Korean War was so different. Because Truman insisted it was called an “action.” We were all—at that time, then, Bea and her family were living with us. There was a big calendar. They had these big railroad calendar which her older sister, Arlene, would check off where Jerry was. This would be her brother. So I don’t know how many families in Pasco were involved with that sort of thing happening in their family. He was missing in action for weeks and weeks. It turned out, as a medic, he was found. But with various serious—Auntie Cheoko was distraught, everybody was distraught. But I don’t recall this happening outside in the school situation or anything about the Korean War. Bauman: Interesting. I only have like one more sort of question, I don’t know if you have other questions, Robert, you want to ask? Franklin: When did your—you mentioned that your parents didn’t talk much about the time in camp, but you did learn stuff about it. When did they finally—did they ever start to open up about it? And a follow up to that: if they didn’t, when did you start to want to learn more about that history and want to talk about that history? Adkinson: Boy. The only one I—I think I did ask some questions of Brenda’s sister, Arlene. Because they were the only ones that had kids and were in my age group. She even didn’t want to say too much about it. She didn’t like it, that was evident. And Grandma and Grandpa never talked about it. It was just an unspoken thing that you just didn’t ask. So one of the things—now, this didn’t happen about the internment, but I did have a Marine who fought in the Pacific who came into my US history class when I was a senior in ’59. It was very interesting story about the war. Evidently, he had heard about the interpreters and that sort of thing. Because, at first, he said, oh, no, there wasn’t any Japanese Americans there. Then he thought about it longer, and he said, oh, yeah. So he talked about it in a sort of a distant way about what we were doing at home, because here these guys would’ve been in camp if they hadn’t been allowed to go enlist. Yeah. Satoh: Yeah, I just recently saw a PBS presentation, I believe it’s entitled Silent Sacrifice. Adkinson: Oh, yeah. Satoh: It was about a lot of the internees. That’s basically the same for our family. You just didn’t talk about it. Out of sight, out of mind. For me, it was years later that I heard outside from the family that part of the family was interned. Through the years, just picking up bits and pieces, I think we had some—well, the Ono family, some of the daughters were more—again, this would be the second or third generation as opposed to the first generation, Nisei. They talked about it more than our family talked about it. For me, that was kind of an a-ha moment. My father’s internment and the trip to South Africa and then back up to Japan, I just kind of put pieces together from souvenirs that my mother had, photographs. And it wasn’t like they said it was taboo to talk about it; it just wasn’t mentioned. Bauman: So I was going to ask, what would you most like people to know or understand about your family’s history here in the Tri-Cities? I say that because I know most of my students—[LAUGHTER]—know nothing, really, about the experience of Japanese Americans here in the area. SO I’m just curious what you would like them to know. Adkinson: I get complaints from the older folk, and there’s not many left. My cousin Jane Maruta was just complaining the other day that the younger generation don’t want to know anything about Japan. She was born in Japan, she came from the family estate over there, and they sent her here to get an American education. She feels that they should make it part of their heritage to know the family history in the home country. The younger ones absolutely just don’t want to do that. They’re not interested, for one thing. And it seems like they want to live life right now. They really don’t look into the past at anything. That was probably the third or fourth relative that had mentioned that the young people just don’t—they don’t even want some of the material things that are being passed down within the family that’s very important. But they—so I think that we’ve acclimated to being American. We were American from the time we were born, so it’s apparently not appealing to the younger ones. But I am, so I go over and talk to her a lot. Just so—just in case one of the younger ones might come up. I should start writing it down. But my classmate, Doc Hastings, told me, you should write a book about your family in town. And I said, well, one of these days. [LAUGHTER] Satoh: One of the things that our family, and many, many Japanese families—it was important for our grandparents to instill in us the desire to assimilate into this country to become part of the fabric. Also, to be contributors as opposed to takers. Again, because of his example, my grandfather’s example of this, hard work, entrepreneurship, and willing to do what it takes for his family, again, it was important for him that the boys went to college. He knew that education was one of the main roads to success. Also, it was important to them—they were stout Buddhists. I remember them taking their little offerings to their bedroom. They had a little shrine there. So religion was important to them. There’s a picture of us, I’ve seen it, we’re all dressed in our Sunday go-to-church clothes: white shirts, slacks, ties, girls in dresses. It reminds me of the cover to Abbey Road, the Beatles album, Abbey Road. Adkinson: [LAUGHTER] Oh, dear! Satoh: Here’s all of us, in a line, going to church with her older sister leading us to church. So religion was very important to our grandparents. Bauman: What church would that have been, do you know? Satoh: It would have been— Kupfer: Methodist. Satoh: The Methodist church. Adkinson: The United Methodist Church. Bauman: In Pasco? Satoh: Yeah. Adkinson: Yeah. Satoh: So— Adkinson: It’s—you know, Grandpa did take a couple of trips back to Japan during his years when he thought he’d made it. And one of the trips was rather hilarious, because he took specifically my uncle George. And it wasn’t until he got to Japan that George realized what he was there for. You know, like many Catholics, you get eight kids, you’ve got to pick one son who might be the priest in the family. That’s exactly what he was after, was one of those monastery things where the monks are or whatever they call it. But he got out of Dodge fast. [LAUGHTER] Adkinson: He did. He just was astounded. No, no, I’m going home. But that was probably his own culture. Maybe his one contribution to maybe trying to get these, one of the kids anyway involved into his native country, I suppose. He tried to introduce French fries to his crew over there in Japan. He said, this is really great. Nobody said a word as they tasted this. He said, you know, he told them to get the oil, and they cut the French fries up and everything. No one said a word, but several hours later many of them got sick because he didn’t specify what kind of oil he wanted. So they were French fried into kerosene oil. Bauman: Oh, wow. Franklin: Oh! Adkinson: So that didn’t endear anybody to—[LAUGHTER] Yamauchi: Crazy Americans. [LAUGHTER] Adkinson: Yeah! I thought that was just hilarious. But I could see where he had made sort of a weak attempt to kind of get somebody assimilated enough to come back—or rather, stay there. Bauman: So how long did your grandparents live? I know the photo of you and you’re a teenager or whatever. But at least, you must’ve spent a fair amount of time with them. Adkinson: Mm-hmm. Well, Grandpa died—both Grandma and Grandpa died after I got married. Grandma died the same— Yamauchi: It was in the ‘60s, wasn’t it? Adkinson: Well, I got married in ’61. Yamauchi: Late ‘50s, early ‘60s. Bauman: Okay. Adkinson: And then Grandpa was 89; Grandma was 75. Yeah. Satoh: Yeah, I got a copy of the obituary. Franklin: Was there—so you said your grandparents were Buddhist and remained pretty devout. Was there ever any tension there between—or did—because it sounds like your parents were Methodist. Did your grandparents want them to adopt Christianity and not be Buddhist, or was there every any tension there between—? Adkinson: In Spokane of all things, during the time we were up there and having to stay there, there was a Buddhist church in Spokane on South Hill. One day, Grandpa told my mom—I was the oldest child, so—he said, we want to take Reiko to the Buddhist church. I was six, I think. I was scared. It’s so different from the Methodist church, you know. It’s got—well, it’s kind of Catholic. It’s got incense, it’s got rosary beads. They have the gong and the whole thing. I was absolutely terrified. And I cried. Grandpa was so mad at me, he wouldn’t take me again. I thought, yes! You know? [LAUGHTER] It was—so they did try. But I think that they thought once I did that, everybody else—the kids weren’t going to— And they did try to start a Japanese school, Grandpa did, in the ‘50s. He got the Ogatas and all the Onos. He had my dad build school tables and ordered books from Japan to teach us the language and so forth. That didn’t last beyond skates and bicycles and after school. Bauman: Now, was that where the mural was? Adkinson: Mm-hm. Kupfer: In the basement. Adkinson: Right in the basement. Bauman: Right. Adkinson: Yeah, that was an old bank building. Bauman: Okay, and that’s in Pasco somewhere. Adkinson: On First and Lewis. Satoh: Yeah, it’s gone now. Yamauchi: It’s demolished. Adkinson: Yeah, but they had—the bank was going to build a brand-new, it was supposed to be brick; it ended up being concrete, because the Depression hit in ’29. So a couple years later they left it as that, and Dad bought the building. Bauman: And they were able to save the mural, is that right? Was the mural saved? Adkinson: City of Pasco did. Bauman: City of Pasco did save it, the mural. So what timeframe would that have been that the Japanese school that your grandfather— Adkinson: In the ‘50s. Early ‘50s, because I was still in grade school. Bauman: Okay. Franklin: Wow. Bauman: And so do you have memories of that, of going to the Japanese school? Adkinson: Well, I don’t remember anybody sounding very enthusiastic. It was deathly quiet when Grandpa was up at the board doing stuff. People say, oh, you missed your chance to learn some culture there. And I said, well, at the time, I didn’t think I missed anything. [LAUGHTER] But he did make attempts, I guess. But at the same time, he was really educated-minded. So he wanted— Kupfer: He got the rest of you to go. Adkinson: Hmm? Kupfer: He didn’t get me to go. Adkinson: You didn’t go at all? Oh, my gosh! Oh, Bea! Kupfer: I was one of those, you know, wrapped herself in her mom’s skirt. [LAUGHTER] Satoh: Yeah, there was a little stage in front of that mural. It was about, maybe, two feet high. I’m not sure if it was for the 88th birthday celebration, which is a big event for the Japanese culture to celebrate your 88th birthday. But they tried to teach us different Japanese dances. I have some pictures of us dressed in kimonos in front of the mural on the stage. I think I understood it to be for his 88th birthday, but I don’t remember exactly. Kupfer: Well, Pop-pop painted it himself. Satoh: Yes, he did, yeah. Kupfer: I guess he knew he was going to have a birthday celebration. Adkinson: They did celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary American style. Kupfer: And that was down there in the basement. Bauman: That was down in that same— Adkinson: Uh-huh, but it was all done just the way their neighbors would have a 50th. So it was nice. Bauman: So the City of Pasco was able to save the mural. Where is it now? Do you know where it is? Satoh: The last I heard is they cut it out of the wall and while they were building the new police station, they put it in one of the warehouses intending to maybe incorporate that into the new police station. But I haven’t heard any more and I haven’t been to the police station myself. Bauman: That’d be really interesting to find out where it is, if it’s incorporated into the police station. Satoh: Yes. I initially couldn’t remember if it was painted on concrete or on some kind of a wall. So my intention was to see if there was any way to salvage that. While they were demolishing the building, I was able to get access to the building and go down there and examine the mural. In fact, I took a few pictures of it there while it was there. But I discovered it was painted on concrete, so there was no way I could haul that out of the building. So in my mind, that was the last of the wall. But then it was quite a surprise when we learned that the city was going to try to restore it and save it. Adkinson: You know— Bauman: I’d like to find out where it is. Franklin: Yeah, me too. Adkinson: Could I say something about the difference between a place like Seattle and the Tri-Cities? I found it was very startling with—I went to an Asian—I think it was their annual August where they have what they call a dance and a festival. A young man I knew from Spokane came up and said, this girl that you went to Girl’s Day with, she’s here and she wants to meet you and introduce you to her friends because if you come up to the University of Washington, you could get into their group. And I said, what kind of group is this? And she said, it’s a sorority. And I said, you mean it’s all Japanese? And he said, yeah, he said, it’s really special if you get to get into there. And I thought about it for two seconds and I said, no, I don’t think I’d be interested. It really shocked me how segregated, even though all of this has happened after all these years, these big cities are still segregated. They still work as one culture and some of them blend into each other’s. I know in Los Angeles there’s a mixture, and Seattle it’s the black community and the Oriental and Japanese communities pretty much close together there. Whereas we in the Tri-Cities, we’re scattered between everywhere. You go to a school, you don’t have a separate quote-unquote group. You join what you want to join, or enter sports and whatever you want to do. But it really kind of shocked me at that time and it’s still going on today. I think even in athletics in Seattle, they’re having their problems because of some of the way they do their athletics bussing and transferring and stuff. Bauman: Well, is there anything we, you haven’t had a chance to talk about yet about your family’s history, that we haven’t asked you about that you’d like to share, or think you should share? Satoh: Well, Linda mentioning Seattle and sororities reminded me of a story, and our cousin Gail couldn’t be here; she’s out of town. But her father, Jim, went to the University of Washington. His intention was to become an engineer. So he enrolled in the engineering program, and I’m not sure how long he was in it; a year, year-and-a-half is what I recall. But an instructor came to him and said, Jim, being that you’re Oriental, Japanese, the chances of you becoming an engineer and getting a job as an engineer is just not in the works. That’s the only time in my recollection that our family has been addressed in that manner, you know. Adkinson: I think it happened to all the ethnic groups over the years, but one bright spot, WSU, my son in the early 1980s had a girlfriend and she was telling me that her grandmother was Native American. She was the first Native American to graduate from WSU. I forgot what her major was. But it was an amazing story. Because, you know, her grandmother, well, that must’ve meant way back, when, I have no idea. But it was a wonderful story of somebody persevering and that happens today. Dallas Barnes was in my class in ’59. He became an employee after he went through school. And I know there were times when he would call CJ Mitchell and tell CJ, you know, I just can’t, it’s tough. And he said, you’d better hang in there. Your parents are counting on you. So when you persevere, you will succeed. Yep. Bauman: Great, well, I just want to say thank you to all of you— Franklin: Yes. Bauman: --for coming in, sharing your stories. This has been fascinating. Franklin: Yes. Bauman: And I really appreciate you being willing to come in and do this. Franklin: Me, too. Thank you very much. Satoh: Well, thank you for having us. Adkinson: Thank you. Bauman: Appreciate it. I believe, Linda, you said you have some photos. I don’t know— Adkinson: I have some photos, but they probably wouldn’t show up. Some of them are pretty small. Bauman: Oh, okay. [VIDEO CUTS] Adkinson: And this is the collection I have of Gladys Coleman. Bauman: Okay. Now, is she related to the Reverend Coleman? Adkinson: He was a—yes, evidently he was—you know, I never did meet him. Bauman: Yeah, okay. Adkinson: But it sounded as though she was—her family came here in 1906, the same year Grandpa did. Franklin: Oh, I was just going to say I think the top picture was— Satoh: [inaudible] in the internment camp, huh? Bauman: I know, because Reverend Coleman was interviewed a long time ago, and I’d seen a copy of that interview. Adkinson: I’m going to show that to my girlfriend and see if she knows if it’s a Yakima person. Bauman: Oh, okay. So this was a classmate of yours? Adkinson: No, no, no, no. This is way back. Way back. Yeah, I have a copy of it made for the Tri-City Herald when they had that— Franklin: Linda, is this you here, or—who is this? Adkinson: No. That’s Aunt—I believe on the back it says Mary, doesn’t it? And Lou, Roy’s mom. Franklin: Yeah, A. Lou, little one Mary. Adkinson: And that’s Gladys Coleman. Franklin: Okay, so that’s one of the stores that your grandfather— Adkinson: One of the stores, yeah, uh-huh. Franklin: Okay, yeah. That’s really cool. Adkinson: Grandpa was very interested in the Grand Coulee Dam, so there were some pictures, but I didn’t know if you really wanted to look at this. Franklin: Wow, yeah, that’s really neat. Adkinson: This is an interesting picture I ran across. This has nothing to do with the Tri-Cities, but it’s a photo and in the back it said that this guy named Lee Pong is a nephew of the former owner of the M. & M. restaurant. And underneath it, look what it says. Bauman: General Chiang’s Army? Adkinson: Yeah! Bauman: Wow. Adkinson: Isn’t that something? And this— Bauman: General Chiang’s Army. Chiang Kai-Shek, I think? Adkinson: This picture shows the family still enjoy life and this is the regular work day and on the back it was taken in 1941. So I thought it was kind of ironic. Bauman: Right, the timing of the photo. Adkinson: Do you have this one? Satoh: Oh, possibly, yes. Adkinson: I think I did give you that. Yeah, I think I did give you that last year. Bauman: Pasco, May 24th, 1941. Adkinson: She’s gorgeous. Kupfer: I have a picture of your mom before she got married. And Jean when she was a toddler. So firstborn Yamauchi child with the first grandchild. Just a little teeny tiny thing. Franklin: Cascade on way to Pasco, Washington. Adkinson: This is Grandma and Grandpa. Bauman: Oh, okay. Adkinson: And there was a lot of pictures that really just show the many friends they had here. It was a completely integrated community. This is the old house—building on First and Lewis. Satoh: That’s where the mural was. Adkinson: And this is the little quote-unquote Chinese laundry of the Ogatas’ across the street. And then there was two sisters who lived on the corner who were from, I think, Louisiana. They were African American. So we all lived across the street and down the corner from each other. Bauman: Now what’s this classroom? Adkinson: I think that little Oriental girl has to be either Brenda’s mom or Aunt Mary. Bauman: Oh, okay. Kupfer: Not Mom. Adkinson: It’s not Mom? Kupfer: No. Adkinson: But the rest of them are mainly just to show—and here, this shows the comfortable us. You’ve got two guys, Mr. Ono and Grandpa, sitting, taking it easy in front of the courthouse like any other small-town folks do. Guys. Bauman: That’s a great photo. These are wonderful photos. Franklin: Yeah, they are. Adkinson: These are all photos of— Satoh: Yeah, share them. Kupfer: Those are two of my sisters. Bauman: Oh, at Heart Mountain. Kupfer: Yeah. I didn’t have them. Roy gave them to me. My older sister has all pictures of the family. Satoh: You should have it then so you can give it to your kids. Kupfer: I know. Adkinson: These are a lot of the businesses are in this, on the back, it’ll tell you. Franklin: “Tough Nuts” Brenda: But I have nothing. Bauman: So when were you born, again, Brenda? Kupfer: ’45. Bauman: ’45. I didn’t remember that. Okay. Kupfer: And the youngest one, she was born in ’41. But I think after she was born, I think they were interned. Adkinson: Right, because she was born in November of ’41, Connie was. So she was one of the four I was talking about. Bauman: Right. And I know general internment happened in like early ’42. Adkinson: Yeah, I think it took a year, didn’t it? Bauman: February/March of ’42 is when the Executive Order— Adkinson: Oh. Oh well that’s really close then, because December 7th would be ’41. Bauman: Yeah, it wasn’t immediately but it’s— Adkinson: So that’s months. Bauman: Yeah, within a few months. Adkinson: Oh, that’s shorter than I thought. Bauman: I think the Executive Order was sometime in early ’42. Adkinson: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Franklin: Mm-hmm. Bauman: Early ’42, right? The internment was? Yeah. Adkinson: One of their buildings burned down, as you can see. [LAUGHTER] Franklin: Yeah, that was that first picture. Adkinson: Yeah. But there’s, I think, one of them is market and one of them is a restaurant, the M. & M. Restaurant. And then there’s another building of a—I think there’s a pool hall in there. I’m not sure. Kupfer: Your mom and my mom loved pool. Franklin: I love the fashion. Adkinson: I didn’t know she played. Kupfer: My mom loved to play pool. Adkinson: Oh my gosh. Satoh: Because it’s from the pool hall! Adkinson: What did Grandpa say? He wouldn’t even let anybody go into the card room! Franklin: Pasco High. Adkinson: Yeah. My dad graduated from the old Pasco City Hall which is a high school now—I mean, the city hall now, in 1929. Franklin: Is there any way—would we be able to scan these and make them digital? Adkinson: Yeah! I just found a couple more. Franklin: And could I take them and then either hand-deliver them to you or mail them certified mail back to you? Adkinson: Sure. Franklin: Oh, that would be wonderful. And if you want digital copies too— Adkinson: Well, I’ve pretty much—oh, here’s the pool hall. Franklin: Make you digital copies as well. Because these are just fabulous, just in documenting—and there’s so many pictures. Adkinson: Yeah, and it’s all taken in Pasco, so— Franklin: Yeah. A lot of these look like they were liberated from scrapbooks. Adkinson: They were. Franklin: I can tell. Adkinson: My grandma’s— Franklin: I do a lot of this in the archives. Sorry. Adkinson: My grandma’s scrapbook. Franklin: Yeah, it’s sad because it’s not good for preservation. Adkinson: It isn’t. Franklin: Because the glues and everything. Adkinson: And so many of the pages were also torn, too, of the album itself. So Mary, she started it and I think she had one half done that was left, and I did that. But she did have one in the modern times. Kupfer: I think that was the only way you could do— Adkinson: You can’t even take the picture out of the book. What? Kupfer: I think that was the only way you could do pictures, was to use the black things, you know, back then. Adkinson: Mm-hmm. Franklin: These are just—these are great, and the stuff on the back, and just explaining some of them— Adkinson: Yeah, I tried to find the ones that had the writing on it. Franklin: Oh, they’re so great. Adkinson: That is Aunt Mary and I think one of her waitresses. That’s the Eddy’s Café, that’s the last café that she and Dad were at. Bauman: I see the Eddy’s Café. That’s awesome. Franklin: Whoa, Winter Tacoma Hotel. Adkinson: Now that was the—I think that’s the M. & M.— Bauman: Second M. & M., it says. Adkinson: Yeah. What they were famous for, they served American food also because that’s what it was when they bought it. And they put it in the first Chinese American restaurant. What they got famous for is their homemade noodles. So they’d come in after drinking beer all night at the nearby taverns, they’d come in for bowls of this broth and noodles. Bauman: That sounds good. Adkinson: Pork slices on top. Franklin: Was it ramen? Satoh: Yeah. Franklin: Or did your grandparents make saimin because they’d lived in Hawai’i? Adkinson: Just homemade noodles. They had a humungous noodle machine. I mean, it was a stand-up—you’d have to stand next to it. In the end, I think Bea’s mom was making it. Kupfer: Yeah. Adkinson: For the café, too, after she worked. Kupfer: There’s no place around that has— Adkinson: I have the recipe. Kupfer: Do you? Adkinson: But it’s ridiculous. I can’t do it. [LAUGHTER] Kupfer: Oh, gosh. Adkinson: It’s just like four items. Flour, egg, and water and maybe something else. Kupfer: But, I mean, the broth. Adkinson: Oh, the broth. Oh, I can do that. Kupfer: Can you? Adkinson: Yeah, I can make the broth. It’s easy now. Bauman: That sounds nice. These photos are great. Franklin: Yeah, they are. Bauman: Really amazing. Yeah, so. This is yours, right? This is also a great photo because it’s from Heart Mountain. Franklin: Oh, wow. Adkinson: Oh, that’s a good one. Bauman: Yeah, Brenda’s two older sisters. Franklin: Oh, man. Wow. Adkinson: I think Jean has some from internment camp. Kupfer: I’m sure she does, yeah. Adkinson: Pictures, because I think there’s one on—didn’t she graduate from high school? Didn’t she—did she get her degree--? I think she-- Kupfer: She came back— Adkinson: Well, Arlene graduated in ’54. Jeannie would’ve had to have graduated earlier. Kupfer: She graduated, not necessarily in camp. Adkinson: Oh. Kupfer: But she graduated early. She was young when she graduated. Adkinson: Yeah, yeah. Bauman: So I was just thinking of something else. I may pester all of you again to see if any or all of you might be willing to come to one of my classes at some point and talk about some of the same stuff. It wouldn’t be this semester; it would be next—I teach a freshman level US history survey course, but it’s sort of the second—so at some point, we’d talk about World War II. I’ve had them read your uncle George’s letter in the past. Adkinson: Ah. Yeah. Bauman: And talk about some of those things. So I think it might be great to incorporate all of you if you might be willing to do that. Kupfer: Those two are the spokesperson. Adkinson: You know, US history-wise, I won the local DAR contest and then I won the state. Years later, somebody told me that this was the first person who wasn’t white— Bauman: Wasn’t white to win the state? I was— Adkinson: --won the state. I don’t know if that’s true or not. Bauman: I would not be surprised. Wouldn’t be surprised. Franklin: I wouldn’t be surprised. Adkinson: Yeah, it was surprising. My mother was ready to fall in a dead faint, because she was mad ever since Marian Anderson was denied opera space in Maryland or something. I guess she really loved that woman’s voice. I don’t remember her at all, but, yeah. Franklin: These are all your pictures, Linda, except for this picture, which is yours. Kupfer: Mm-hmm. Franklin: Okay, and it’s okay if I scan this one too? Kupfer: Yeah. Franklin: And I have all your mailing addresses. Would you prefer me to mail them back certified mail, or--? Adkinson: Why don’t you mail it all back together to me, and then I can give it to her. Franklin: Okay. And we’ll do it certified with insurance so they’ll just know— Adkinson: Okay. Franklin: Yeah, this is really something. Adkinson: We’ll have an excuse to go to lunch then. [LAUGHTER] Franklin: Go get them scanned. I mean, wow. Yeah. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Yamauchi Family Subject The topic of the resource Japan Emigration Hawai’i Pasco (Wash.) Spokane (Wash.) Kennewick (Wash.) Richland (Wash.) Entrepreneurship Restaurateurs Grocery trade Japanese Americans--Evacuation and relocation, 1942-1945 Internment of Japanese Americans, 1942-1945 Discrimination Description An account of the resource An interview with Brenda Kupfer, Roy Satoh, Linda Reiko Adkinson and Bruce Yamauchi . An interview conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by Mission Support Alliance on behalf of the United States Department of Energy. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 09/18/2018 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Relation A related resource Yamauchi Family, Oral History Metada Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to the US Department of Energy collection. https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fff380e39103fa01178d8e1059e1573c9.JPG ec132b0727e3f0d01ff595ff8ac6c9ec https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F5a56b59e81d95070c7376fcc8d6d65fd.mp4 f22765f72beab82ec380fe201952ab1b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pre-1943 Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Description An account of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert Bauman Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ray Deranleau Location The location of the interview Washington State University, Tri-Cities Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Northwest Public Television | D_Henry_Raymond Robert Bauman: Okay. Well, we'll go ahead and get started. And I'm going to start by having you say your name, and spell it for us, please. Ray Deranleau: Ray De-- are you ready? Bauman: Yep. Deranleau: Ray Deranleau, D-E-R-A-N-L-E-A-U, R-A-Y on the first name. Bauman: Great, thank you. And today's date is September 3rd of 2013. And we're conducting this interview on the campus of Washington State University, Tri-Cities. So let's start, if we could, by having you talk about your family--how they came, how, when, why they came to the area here. Deranleau: Well, my folks come here in 1930. And at that time, there was just six kids left in the house. The three older ones had grown up. And they more or less, I think, starved out--they were up at Genesee, Idaho. And the price of wheat wasn't anything, and they just kind of went broke up there. They moved down here, and, of course, we farmed down here, but that was altogether different. Dad had been a dry land farmer, but he had to learn the irrigation thing. Bauman: Do you know how he heard about Richland, or any of that? Deranleau: I think he just put the place up for sale and the real estate person, Carl Williams, who was in Kennewick for a long time, handled it. I know that. And I suppose that's how it happened. I was about--I was six--or, five when we moved here. So, a lot of that up there, I don't recall even. Bauman: And what were your parents' names? Deranleau: Henry and Elizabeth. Bauman: And so where was your farm? Deranleau: Well, it was right across the ditch from where Battelle is, headed west. It was across that ditch. And if you are familiar with that, there was an old school—Vale School, up there at one time. And Dad had 33 acres, and that seven acres was out of that original 40. So we were right adjacent to that. Bauman: Okay. Who were some of your neighbors, or people who lived closest to you, then? Deranleau: Well, Pete Hansen lived right next to us. And then, across the ditch, was Hultgrenn. Were the two closest. Bauman: And so what sort of crops did you grow on the far? Deranleau: Well, we had--towards the last, we had a little mint--peppermint. And we had quite a few grapes, but most folks didn't raise grapes like Dad did. And, of course, we had hay and asparagus, and strawberries. Bauman: And growing up on the farm, did you have particular chores or responsibilities that were yours? Deranleau: Hell yeah. We milked cows, and just all the stuff that went with it. Cut asparagus. We'd get up as soon as you could see to cut asparagus in the spring. That was always a cash crop that made a little money for everybody that--and of course, it was early. It'd give them a chance to have some money to pay the water bill, and stuff like that. So that was a good crop then. Bauman: Do you know where the crops were sold? Deranleau: Well, they were sold mostly at Kennewick. And some things at Pasco, but mostly at Kennewick. Ours was, anyway. Bauman: I want to ask you also, about your farm, were there other buildings besides the house itself on the property? What other buildings were there? Deranleau: Well, yeah, we had a barn, and a little shed that, I suppose at one time, had been kind of an open end garage type thing. But most of that stuff was so worn out that you could throw a cat through it somewhere. Bauman: So when you bought the place, it was something that someone else had already owned? Deranleau: There was what? Bauman: Someone else had already owned the place? Deranleau: No, Dad got that place from the ditch company. And he just moved on there for no payment at all. And of course, the reasoning behind that was if they had people farming, they were buying their water. So they were better off just to let you set on there. And of course, eventually, he paid for it. But that's when they moved on that thing. Bauman: Oh, okay. Deranleau: And it was awful run down, to begin with. Whoever was on there ahead of us didn't do much farming. They just-- Bauman: Do you know how old the place was? Deranleau: No. Bauman: It had been there for a while? Deranleau: Yeah, it was older than I was. Bauman: And what about electricity? Did you have electricity there? Deranleau: Yeah. [LAUGHTER] We got electricity there. And at that time that, PP&L was in here, which was Pacific Power and Light. And they wouldn't give you electricity until the ERA came in, and then they were right there to give you some, if they could. But they had to run a line in from Stevens, you know, where I live, there. And that was probably, what, a block and a half maybe. But anyway--and then they went to our neighbors. And we had to buy electric stoves. And I suppose--I know we bought them from them, and I don't know if we had to or not. And just a deal where you pay a nickel down, pay the rest your life, type thing. And I suppose they got a dang good shafting on the price of that stove. I don't know that, but common sense tells me that. But that's the way electricity was then. And like I said, boy, they weren't very helpful until the ERA came in, and made all the difference in the world. REA, I guess it is. Bauman: REA, right. And did that happen sometime after you arrived, the REA? Probably, yeah-- Deranleau: Yeah. Roosevelt, I think, went in in, what, in '32? And so we went there in '30. And we moved on to that place, I would say, in '35. And I could be off a year or two. It was the second place where we first lived. Bauman: Okay, so where did you live before that, then? Deranleau: We lived just off of Van Giesen, and right in there close to where that little shoplifting center is, there on Van Giesen. If you know much about the history of this place, there was a house there, and they called it Officer's--Officer's something. And I can't say the word I want to. But anyway, it was a big, nice house, and they had left that for quite a while before they ever tore it down. I think they moved it to West Richland eventually. Bauman: So that's where you lived initially, and then you moved to the place-- Deranleau: Pardon? Bauman: So that's where you lived for about five years? '30, '35, and then you moved to the second place? Okay. And what about telephone? Did you have a telephone? Deranleau: Yeah. We had a telephone. My dad was on the ditch board--the water board. There were three other people around there. And then they had a guy running it. In fact, Fletcher--his dad run that. And he had to have a telephone because of that. Bauman: Oh, okay. Deranleau: I suppose we wouldn't have had a telephone as quick as we did. Bauman: Was that a party line, sort of? Deranleau: Oh, yeah. Yeah, then about that time, too, we switched over from horses to a tractor. So that was kind of a change in farming for us a lot. Bauman: So initially you had horses for all the work on the farm? Do you remember what kind of tractor you got? Deranleau: Yeah, we had an F-12, Farmall tractor. Bauman: So what about the town of Richland itself? What do you remember about the town during the 1930s? Any businesses, or things that you-- Deranleau: Well, there was a couple of grocery stores, and a couple of gas stations. You could buy little candy bars, and stuff like that at those gas stations. And there was a hardware--good hardware store. And I probably missed some of them, but there wasn't much here. Bauman: [LAUGHTER] Did you have a radio, or--how did you get news? Deranleau: Well, we had a radio. It worked part of the time. [LAUGHTER] One of those deals where everybody had his damn ear down into the--trying to hear it. Bauman: Do you remember listening to any shows, or anything in particular on the radio when you were growing up? Deranleau: Oh yeah, we used to listen to Jimmy Allen. And of course, Dad listened to the news. So we'd listen to that, too. But Jimmy Allen, and, oh, Amos and Andy. We'd listen to that. And I don't remember what else. Not much, we didn't listen to it a lot. It wasn't very good. Bauman: What about newspaper? Was there a newspaper? Deranleau: Yeah, we always had the Spokesman Review. There wasn't any local papers at that time. Bauman: I want to ask you about school. What school did you go to? And do you have any specific memories about school, teachers or anything like that? Deranleau: Well, we had a pretty good little school, if we'd have tried to learn something. And some of us wasn't too interested in that, to be real frank with you. And I was one of them--hell, I thought I knew everything there was to know at 15. But really, we didn't have a bad school. Bauman: How did you get to school? Was there a bus? Deranleau: Yeah, went on a school bus. Bauman: Was that a sort of regular school bus? Deranleau: Yeah. Bauman: It was? Okay. Deranleau: Yeah, they had certain routes. There were about--I would say maybe five of them. Bauman: Were there any teachers that you particularly remember from your years of school in Richland? Deranleau: Well, no, not really. We had some good ones and some bad ones. But I don't like to badmouth some of them. And especially the kind of student I was. If I'd have had me, I'd have killed me. Just to be real frank with you. Bauman: What's a recreational activities? What did you do for fun growing up? Deranleau: Well, we played ball, and we fished, and just kind of entertained ourselves. We worked a lot, really. When kids were old enough to work--and if you had any spare time, Dad would go out and buy another 20 acres, just about what it boiled to with those old guys. You know, if they had boys especially, they were out looking for more land. [LAUGHTER] Which was a way of life at that time. Bauman: Mm-hm. Do you remember any community events? Any-- Deranleau: Well, we used to go to grange meetings. And they'd have two a month. And one of them would be a social thing, and at that one, they'd serve a little sandwich and coffee, and they'd have dances. You'd just volunteer a band, so that was pretty neat. Bauman: Where were the grange meetings held? Deranleau: The Grange Hall was right up where the Lutheran church is, here in Richland, on Van Giesen--or, yeah, Van Giesen and Stevens. Bauman: So I assume your father was a member of the grange. Deranleau: Yeah. Bauman: Was he part of any other organizations? You mentioned the irrigation, right? Deranleau: No, not really. We went to church when we had gas. Bauman: What church did you go to? Deranleau: Catholic. And we'd have to go to Kennewick for that. There wasn't any Catholic church here. In fact, there was one church, and I think they called it Community Methodist. And pretty near all the protestants would go there. And maybe they'd have a Methodist preacher for a while, and if he starved out, the next one could be Lutheran, or whatever, you know. You just kind of, in those days, did with what you had. And they pretty much had a Seventh Day Adventist little church there, too. There wasn't many members, but they would have meetings there, on Saturday. Bauman: Were there a number of families that went to the Catholic church in Kennewick from Richland, who lived there? Deranleau: Oh, I don't think there was a half a dozen. Maybe something like that. Of course, them Catholics, in those days, had lots of kids, and more kids than the rest of them. So we could kind of outnumber them. We didn't need--if we had families, we had groups. [LAUGHTER] We had one Catholic bunch, lived out there on the river. And I think they had 17 or 19 kids, somebody said. And in those days, it wasn't unusual for children to die at childbirth. And they had some where they'd lose one--they'd just name another one the same name. And I always thought that was kind of weird, but I know they did that. Bauman: You mentioned playing ball growing up. Did you play sports in school at all? Deranleau: Well, we played softball. We didn't have any football--we didn't have a football team. We didn't have any material for it. And we didn't play baseball, either. They had a local baseball team--we'd call it a town team. And everybody, whoever wanted to--and then they had some pretty decent players on that darn thing, for those days. Bauman: How about basketball? Deranleau: Well, we had a high school basketball team. And that was the size of that. I don't remember anybody other than just--well, maybe in grade school or middle school, you could play around then. Bauman: So you arrived here in about 1930— Deranleau: Yeah. Bauman: --the years of the Great Depression. Wondering ways in which the Depression sort of impacted people here. Deranleau: [LAUGHTER] Well, we were poor as church mice, you know. But everybody else was the same way. Hell, when I went in the service in '43, I had better conditions in the service than I had at home. And like I said, everybody was poor, so I thought that's the way everybody was. And they were, around here--most of them, some of them were better off than others, naturally. But it was pretty hard times for everybody. We didn't ever--went hungry, or anything like that. I don't mean to imply that. But, boy, we worked from the time were about 11 and 12 in the fields. And after we got a little older, we could hire out, if we got a chance. We'd get enough money for our school clothes that way. And it didn't take much--of course, we didn't get much either. You'd get maybe two bits an hour, you know. And boy, I'll tell you--that was work in those days, too. Picking up potatoes, and things like that. Bauman: I want to go back to school. So what year did you graduate high school, then? Deranleau: '42. Bauman: And how many people were in your class? Deranleau: I think there was just eight of us, or maybe a dozen. I don't know, they got to--I think Edith maybe brought you that picture of that group. Bauman: Yeah, small group. Deranleau: And some of us--I remember, one old teacher that--he was always talking about our sheepskins, when we graduated. And I said something about my sheepskin one day. And he said, yours won't have any fleece on it. [LAUGHTER] Oh, gosh. I think about that school--what a waste of my time and theirs. It was all my fault, I'm not blaming anybody but myself. But it was a fact. It was just stupid that I didn't want to learn more. Bauman: And you mentioned you joined the service in '43? Deranleau: Yeah, right after they--as soon as they got the notice here, I started. I had two brothers in the service at the time. And there were four of us in there, before it was over with. And everybody was in the service. And I just felt like I should be in, and I didn't have the guts to leave. And dad wasn't any spring chicken. So I hated to leave before—But once they got rid of that farm-- Bauman: So tell me about when you notice from the government about needing to leave. Deranleau: Well, we got we got notice from the government on March 3, and they just told us that our place-- condemned our places, and was taking them. And we got our notice a little bit before noon, in the mail. And I was plowing a field out there. And I came in for lunch, and they were, of course, telling me about it. And after I ate, I went back out and cranked up that tractor. And I bet I hadn't been plowing an hour and a half, and somebody called up there, and told them to get that tractor out of that field. I don't know who called, or any more about it than--the deal was you couldn't find out anything. And looking back, you understand why. But you sure didn't in those days. And then, the bad thing about that--it put all those farmers on the market for a new place, and immediately the land went up. And they weren't offering a lot. And a lot of the people didn't accept--they sued for it. And they did better. And Mr. Fletcher--Robert's dad--was involved in that. And, of course, there was an attorney that they had naturally--or, normally up there. And he handled the case--Lionel Powell, from Kennewick, who was an attorney. Bauman: How did your parents respond to the letter? Deranleau: Well, confused--everybody was. I guess they just finally told us that it was a government thing, and it was a secret. And they wouldn't--couldn't tell us, and they kind of accepted that. But first, they just were going to run you out of there, without any kind of explanation at all. And we never did get--it was world news when we found out that Richland was part of the atomic bomb thing. Bauman: So what happened with your parents, then? They sold the land-- Deranleau: Well, they settled in Kennewick, and Dad bought a couple little places there. Bauman: How long were they given to leave? Deranleau: Oh, boy. They extended the time to get off of there. I think probably it was fall before the folks left. And then, a lot of those crops, they had the prisoner of war camp, out on the Yakima there. And they had those prisoners in there, taking care of some of those crops. Because I remember a couple of them working up there in the grapes at our place. And one of them asked the other one why he was in the slammer. And he said he was a letter writer. Anyway, he forged checks. [LAUGHTER] He said he was a letter writer. Bauman: Was that camp--that camp was in existence for a while, before '43, there? The prisoner of war camp? Deranleau: It was what? Bauman: It was there before '43? Deranleau: I don't know. I don't think so. I think they put it up, but boy, they had people. They just put something like that up overnight. I'll bet it didn't take them two weeks to put the dang thing up. Bauman: And you said your parents then bought a place in Kennewick? Deranleau: Yeah. Bauman: A farm, or-- Deranleau: Well, they bought a little place down on the corner of 19th and Washington. There was a credit union there for a while, and they're gone from there. I don't know what's in there now. But industry's moved that far down in there. And of course, that was all farming. That was one thing about the farms, too, in Richland. So many of them--now, we were up on just sagebrush bordered us. There was always land there, available, if you had the time to get it. In fact, Dad would--he'd water some of that--was watering some of those. He'd put in rye grass, because it'd stand the wind. It was hearty, you know? And he'd water. And he was figuring on getting two or three years of rye grass in that, to hold that sand a little bit, and then buying that. And it was things like that that they'd do. And they were pretty loose with--the ditch company, as long as they had water, they'd let them do things like that. But the ditch company owned a lot of Richland. I thought back a lot of times, and wondered, between the Federal Land Bank and the ditch company, what percentage of these little areas--and we weren't unique on that. All you had to do was go down the road to the next one--it was the same thing. Bauman: You talk about irrigation. How did the irrigation system work? I mean, what sort of irrigation pipes-- Deranleau: It was all real irrigation--ditches. Little ditches. We never heard of a sprinkler system, at that time. Bauman: Was there cement pipes, at all? Deranleau: Oh, well, yeah. Some of it was open ditch, and some of it was pipes. And some of it was even what they call continuous pipe. And I had never seen them make that. But the inside out of it--there wasn't any joints, and they had something they'd drag through the middle of it, put the cement around it, and then pull that. That's how they had to do. I never seen them do it. It wasn't very good. It wasn't as good as a good concrete pipe. And, of course, people, as they could, they were improving on that kind of stuff. Getting rid of that kind of junk, and putting in better. Bauman: So do you remember what your, or your parents', feelings were about--were you upset about having to move off the land? Angry? Deranleau: Well, they were all probably angry, and confused, more than angry, I think. Because just imagine--getting a letter that you--and on those farms, it was--every month of the year, there was something to do. In winter, you had more cows to milk, and stuff like that. So it wasn't where you had a lot of time off, or anything. Bauman: So do you remember where you were when you heard about what was happening at the Hanford site? About what was being built, and used for? Deranleau: No, I really don't. I was in Europe, and I come home--and they gave us a 30 day furlough. And we'd seen just enough combat that we'd been good candidates for over in Japan. And I think that was what they were figuring on. But anyway, I was on a train going back to South Carolina, where I had to report back to. And we were up in Montana, and the conductor come through there, and told us that they had dropped those bombs, and that the war was over. And I think that's the first time I ever knew what Hanford really did--as near as I remember, at least. Bauman: Do you remember your response when he came through and told you this? Deranleau: [LAUGHTER] Well, I hate to sound like an idiot, but we were playing poker--a bunch of us--and we were more interested in the poker game. And--it was almost disbelief, I think. Bauman: And so how much longer were you in the service, then? When did you come back to the area? Deranleau: Oh, after that, I would say I was in the service five, six months. And we moved around a lot. I was in a chemical warfare outfit. It was a mortar outfit. We had big mortars, and were designed to shoot gas, if we had to. That's why we were in the chemical end of it. But we also had high explosives that we shot. And we would be attached to the infantry. But I don't know really how long we was. Here again, I went back to--I was in 89th Chemical. And when I got back to Colorado, I went over to where it was supposed to be, and--nothing there. So I saw another chemical outfit, right next door--90th. So I went over there. And I happened to walk right into the same company that I'd been assigned to. We'd all been assigned to that, and we didn't even know it. And I'll never forget the First Sergeant in there. He told me where to go, what barracks I could bunk in. So I went up to that barracks, and it was full. And I came back, and I said, that barracks is full, up there, I said. He said, go up and throw one of those guys out of there, and get a bunk. And I said, you go up and throw him out. [LAUGHTER] And that guy took a liking to me. And he was the biggest horse's neck ever to come down the pike. He was a hobo that had found it in the Army, and he was re-enlisted. But he was kind of a weird booger. But anyway, he took a liking to me. And hell, I could just get away with anything after that. It was kind of weird. Some of the guys used to razz me about being his buddy. [LAUGHTER] But anyway, we were doing a lot of moving around. They were just shifting everybody. We went down through Texas, and they brought us up to San Francisco for Army Day Parade. We looped around on those damn hills down there a lot. My wife told me I wasn't supposed to cuss, too, didn't she? But anyway, we were moving around a lot, and then finally ended up at Fort Lewis, where they booted us out. Bauman: Do you know, after your parents left the farm, do you know if it was torn down right away? Or did the government use it for anything? Deranleau: Well, ours was, I'm sure, because it was just a shack. And most of them were like that. And it was just the better houses that they kept for folks--like that one I was telling you, Officer's Club is what they called that house over there, where we first lived. And houses like that, they kept them around to put people in. But boy, I'll tell you, some of those houses around here, you could throw a cat through the wall of them--they didn't amount to much. Bauman: Do you have--are there any memories of growing up in Richland that really stand out to you? Any sort of humorous events, or things that you remember from growing up here, that really stand out to you? Deranleau: Oh, boy. Well, [LAUGHTER] I remember one time, a bunch of us went up to Brown's island. And that's about maybe eight, nine miles up the Colombia from here. And, of course, in those days, all those dams weren't in there and that was free water. And if you knew where to go, you could wade over to that in the summer. And if you didn't, you'd have to swim a little. But a bunch of us went up there. Anyway, we camped up there for pretty near a week. And we just hunted and fished, and loafed around there. But anyway, there was a little shack on this side of the river. And we'd come back, and I don't know whether we were getting ready to leave, or just that morning, we were maybe going to hunt rabbits or something. But we all had .22s. And one of those kids shot up into the corner of that damn thing, towards the ceiling. And that bullet--we tracked it afterwards, and it went down the ridgepole of that little shack, just probably that far. And hit a nail, and it dropped down on one of the kids' neck. Now, it just dropped, I think. But anyway, it burned his neck, and it just rolled off, you know. And I remember, he said, I'm shot! [LAUGHTER] We didn't pay any attention to him. And he said, I'm shot, you damn fools! [LAUGHTER] It just boiled down that that had just rolled there, but just a strange thing. It hit a knot, to begin with, and turned and went right up that ridgepole about two inches. And then, by that time, that little .22 was spent. But anyway [LAUGHTER] he was pretty excited, because he thought he was killed, and we didn't pay any attention to him. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: I'm wondering, anything you--or, what do you think would be important for people to know about what it was like growing up in a small community of Richland in the 1930s, 1940s? Deranleau: Well, really, it was pretty good, because everybody knew everybody. And everybody associated with one another. There wasn't anybody that was left out, really. And like I said, we were all poor as church mice, but we thought that was the way the whole world was. And like I said, I don't think there were any of us around that went hungry. I really don't. Folks would can, and they canned everything. I remember one year, I had three sisters that were going to get married in the fall. And those girls and mom canned for their families to be, and our family. And they would can in those old wash boilers. And I don't know if you've ever seen that done, but what they'd do is put a little rack in the bottom that was made out of cedar. And it had holes bored about like that, so that the water could circulate through it. But those jars wouldn't sit right on where it was so ungodly hot. And they put those in there, and then boil them for a couple hours to seal those—but they’d put up even meat, my folks did. And mom, even, would can butter a time or two. Now, she didn't heat it, you know--she'd put it in salt water, and put it in those jars. And then, we'd open that when, I guess, when we didn't have butter otherwise. I don't really know. I think she just did that one year. But they'd put up all kinds of vegetables and fruit. And everybody had some of that, and you'd trade around. Or if people had surplus, they'd just give it to you. There was a lot of that, because-- Bauman: It was a way to preserve things for-- Deranleau: Pardon? Bauman: It was a ways to preserve things-- Deranleau: Yeah. And folks would also put up pork. And put so much salt you couldn't eat it hardly, and you'd have to soak it for a week before you could get close enough to it to eat it. [LAUGHTER] But we always--Dad would kill a steer in the fall. And we'd give some of that, probably, to the kids. Maybe they'd kill one later, and we'd get part of that, and stuff like that. Or neighbors-- Bauman: So it was very much a community, everyone-- Deranleau: Yeah. Bauman: --sort of shared, and worked together. Well, any other things that we haven't talked about yet, that you remember, or that-- Deranleau: No. Bauman: Well, I want to thank you for coming in today, and for sharing your memories and experiences. Deranleau: Okay. Bauman: Thank you very much. Deranleau: You betcha. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:38:24 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 125 kbps Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1930- Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Ray Deranleau Description An account of the resource Ray Deranleau moved to Richland, Washington in 1930 as a child. His family was displaced in 1943 when the Manhattan Project took over the land for the Hanford Site. An interview conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 09/03/2013 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection. Subject The topic of the resource Richland (Wash.) Kennewick (Wash.) Pasco (Wash.) Farming Irrigation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Battelle Cat Hanford Kennewick School https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F8281eeea60bc11443576c297c088680a.jpg cc17aca4ceedb233f5ec5376253ee16c https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F1a4fe936fb05b5f5d96e8988d8fc182a.mp4 034eb209cfdf1e2030c91dc16e22815f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pre-1943 Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Description An account of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert Bauman Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Leatris Reid Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Northwest Public Television | Reid_Leatris </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: My name is Leatris Faye Boehmer Reid. B-O-E-H-M-E-R. It's pronounced "bay--" "bay-mer." And I was born in North Dakota in 1930. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Just before we get started on that, I just need to get the date on here, make sure we have everything. And so we're recording this on August 27, 2013. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Okay, August 27. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: And we're recording it in your home in Walla Walla. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Yeah, let's have you talk about your family and how your family came to White Bluffs. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: First? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: I came here in June to White Bluffs, Washington in 1935 or '36. I'm pretty sure it was '36 because I had my sixth birthday there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: So you said you were born in North Dakota and moved to White Bluffs in 1936. Why did your family leave North Dakota and head to White Bluffs? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Well, we had a terrible Depression, as you know. And I was a Depression baby, and we just simply weren't—there was no work, there was no money. We just simply had to get out of there. We lost a little boy at two and a half with what they call membranous croup at the time. But it was actually, what it was was that awful--oh, kids have it. It's asthma, terrible asthma. And he just couldn't make it. And I think it just broke my mother's heart. She had just lost a baby. So then I became the baby. But I think I was almost six, so--She had written all over Washington, Oregon, because she knew that there was fruit there. And there was food, and the temperature was reasonable. And so she wrote all the little towns that she could find in Washington and Oregon to find out what they did there, what they grew, and what the chances were of people surviving. And she got one for Mr. Reierson that owned the grocery store in White Bluffs, and one from the man who had the bank. And I can't remember his name. But she got glowing letters about the fruit. She got glowing things about that there was work. There was packing sheds, there were alfalfa fields to take care of. And there certainly were. They didn't stint on it and it was not exaggerated. So that's how we came to be there, and find it we did. It was exactly like they described it. It was probably the best thing that ever happened to us, because we would have starved. We had no money even to pay for that little boy's doctor bill that we left. So then I was the littlest one, and we had six left. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: And so talk a little bit about your parents and your siblings, what your parents' names and your siblings' names-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Well, my oldest sister--who I dearly love and still is alive and I'm glad--is 10 years older than me. And her name is Dorothy Lorraine Boehmer-- "bay-mer"--Foyer. And she lives in Everett, Washington, and she will also probably make a statement to you. But she's my oldest. And then I had a sister LaVonne. I had a sister named Helen and a brother named Virgil, all of them the same name, Boehmer. And I had a little brother. I had a sister named Darlene also. And she didn't live at White Bluffs. She stayed with my great-aunt and uncle in Minnesota because they had no children and they wanted to educate her. She was very smart. And she had been treated badly at school in North Dakota, and she didn't want to go back. And they were visiting us. So my mother said, well, you could have her for a year. And of course she--they became so attached to her. And she loved them dearly, and they were good to her. And they did visit us at White Bluffs. And they liked White Bluffs when they came. But it was the best thing that ever happened to us to move to White Bluffs. They had work in packing sheds, like I say. They had--the kids were very receptive to us. And everybody there just opened their arms. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: I wonder if you could describe the place you lived in White Bluffs. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Well, we lived at Lulubelle Johnson's house, and we were buying it from her. But we never realized any money out of when it sold to the government. But Lulubelle Johnson had a son named Ford Johnson because Lulubelle Johnson was a niece of Henry Ford, made the automobiles. And we stayed there at that house and it was just—it was wonderful. We had good neighbors, fruit orchards all over. All over. When they said that you will find all the fruit you want, they really meant it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: And so what sort of fruit was on the farm you grew up on? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Oh, we had--we grew alfalfa. If you didn't grow alfalfa, you grew fruit. But we had a good well on our land, and alfalfa was a good-paying crop. And of course, we had a cow. And if we had too much alfalfa, we could sell it. So it wasn't something that went bad. And the fruit--every kind of fruit. First time I ever tasted cherries or even seen a cherry tree was there. Or ever ate an apricot or seen an apricot. Or even apples--we had apples there—wonderful. And the whole valley was full of that. It wasn't just one little orchard, it was lots of orchards. It was covered with orchards and alfalfa fields. Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Did you have electricity? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: We did! First time we had electricity. We had electricity shortly before we moved from North Dakota because I remember my mother had a Maytag washing machine that she had just bought and paid $2 a month for. [LAUGHTER] So we had that all packed up and ready to go and our tickets--the government gave us tickets to get out of a depressed area. And we took the Empire Builder--brand new--to Spokane, and came into White Bluffs on a fruit train with our little parcel of stuff. And they welcomed us with open arms. And they were [AUDIO OUT] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: So you mentioned that there was a well. Is that--how were your crops irrigated with it? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Oh, well, we had sprinkler systems. They weren't like they are now. But what we had, you dug the ditch across the field. And then you made little rows out of that on both sides. And you would run it from the well pipe into that big main ditch. And then you would take the little ditches and close them up. When you've got enough irrigation water, you'd close them back up. And that's what we did. That's how we did it. And that's how they water the orchards. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: And how about running water? Did you have-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: We didn't have running water in the house. We went out and got it by the bucketful off of the well. There was a little faucet and you could either pull it up with a bucket or you could turn the faucet on. There was a pump. [LAUGHTER] It's the same one you watered the yard with. But it was grand to have all the fresh water you needed because we paid $0.25 a barrel in North Dakota for drinking water because it was a rancid and acrid. $0.25 then was a lot of money. We washed clothes with it. My mother would take it after she washed clothes and scrub her floors. And they were white from the lye in the soap. And then she would put it on her garden. But we never had bugs on the garden. [LAUGHTER]. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: So I was gonna ask you--who were some of your neighbors? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Let me see, Beldins. Beldins were one of our neighbors. Summers were some of our neighbors. And I can't even remember what--his kid's name was--oh, I can't say his name. He kind of talked with a nasal. And my dad called him Snazzy Summers. [LAUGHTER] I don't know where that came from. But anyways, he was--he had a crush on my sister Helen. And Helen didn't like him. Of course, she was only about 12 or 13. I don't think she had boys in mind. She was kind of a tomboy, too. They were some of our neighbors. And we lived-- the Abercrombie place was north of us. And down below us was an abandoned place. And they must have made wine of some kind, because they grew grapes and the grapes were still there. They grew right down to the water. We would go down and get these great big, beautiful Tokay red grapes. And they were right there by the river so they had enough water. But then the whole farm was completely abandoned, probably because of the Depression. I really don't know. But they were the neighboring ones. And the Grewells lived up above us. Helen and Gerald Grewell was their name. And Helen Grewell was my sister Helen's very favorite girl. They’d run around all the time. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: And how about you? Who were some of your best friends-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Oh, Patsy Borden was my best friend for a while. She was probably my best friend, yes. And she was the granddaughter of the Saths, who were related to the Wiehls who run the ferry. And Ida Mae probably was another little friend. She was a nice little girl. I liked them all. We actually--there wasn't a whole lot of--kids had to go home and go do things. It wasn't--I remember the Kilian children because they were German. And they came there, I want to say about '37, '38. Hitler was already busy in Germany. And they came home. And they Mrs. Supple used to raise sheep. Her and husband--they were German also, very, very German. Nice people, but she thought Hitler was doing such great things over there for the German people. And so Mr. Kilian went over and had a long talk with her and said, you know, you are putting yourself in a dangerous position, because this is not going well in Germany. He might be doing things for the German people, but he has things in mind for the world. And I thought, how kind. How provocative and kind that was. It wasn't necessary for him to do that. He really didn't know them. But he had heard things. And in a little community, things like that get around. It isn't gossip, it's just fear. But I thought that was very kind. I was only about 7, 8 years old. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: I was going to ask you about-- did you have certain chores or responsibilities-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Always. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: --that you had to do on the farm? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Everybody did. Everybody did. Mine was feeding the chickens and gathering the eggs. And we had a little hen named Grandma that mother picked out of the shell, and Billy Rooster, who I guess was named after me. He turned out beautiful. But little Grandma Hen was sterile, so she must have been too weak. But she kept her in the warming oven for an extra couple hours, and she picked her out of the shell. She was sterile. And she would run around stealing everybody else's chicks. She would have a couple of Rhode Island Reds, and she would have a couple of little Leghorns, and maybe a little Barred Rock or two. And she'd huddle them up and boy, she'd fight them off--she's going to keep these kids. Well, Mrs. Sath was such a sweetheart. They lived in the--next to us. And she brought my mother some duck eggs-- white Peking duck eggs. And she said, why don't you just set her. She's dying to and she doesn't know--she'd fight them off. And so they set about 10 eggs under her because duck eggs are pretty good sized. And she hatched out every one, and she was so proud of them. Oh, boy, she'd just stomp around that farmyard like she really knew what she was doing. And she just took them down to the horse trough one time. And they found the horse trough, and they jumped in. And she just went berserk--"come back, come back." And so it got to be a morning thing. Every morning she'd take them to the horse trough because they had to have their swim. But she raised them. [LAUGHTER] Those things were fun things. We didn't have TV. We had a little, tiny radio that we could listen to for the news. But it wasn't a thing you had on all day. But Billy Rooster used to hear the music and he would try to keep up with it. And my sister Dorothy would always do the lunch dishes. She'd say, Billy Rooster, are you out there singing to this music? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: It was very wholesome. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Mm-hm. What other sorts of things did you do for fun? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: The river. Oh, the river. The river was a godsend. We learned to swim the first year, the first summer we were there. And we had a raft. The dads had got together and built this big raft. And if you could swim out to the raft—I was not supposed to, but I did. And the little Lowe boy wasn't supposed to, either. He was just learning to swim. And he went under. And my sister Dorothy was a really good swimmer. And he went under for the third time. And she went down and got him, got him out on that--pulled him up. And there was a couple of guys up there pulled him up on that raft and they turned them over on his stomach. And the water just poured. And he lived. But he wouldn't have lived. And every one of those kids at White Bluffs were just as devoted as that to the river. That was our playground. We had to do our work in the morning because it was cool enough. And the summers over there were--boy, they were hot. But we could go in and get in the swimming pool then, our swimming pool. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: You mentioned a little bit ago having a radio. Did you have a telephone also? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: We finally did have a telephone. And it was only a dollar a month. That was right uptown. We'd never had one of those before. It was a party line, so if there was an emergency, you had to give up the line. If there was an emergency--if you didn't, they would take your telephone out and you'd never get a telephone again. So that was good and responsible. And I think Mrs. Westling was the telephone--she had it in her home. She and her daughter, I believe, operated it, I'm pretty sure. They lived up by the bank, I remember that. But I can't tell you--we didn't have names on the streets that I know of. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: And so did you get your news mostly on the radio? Was there a newspaper also? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: There was. There was a little newspaper there. And I believe it was for Hanford and White Bluffs. And my brother actually worked for that newspaperman. First you start out just because he thought it would be fun. Phil asked him, he said, would you like to know something about publishing a newspaper? And so Dutch went and worked for him. That's what we called him--we didn't call him Virgil. And he went and worked for him. And they did publish a little newspaper. It was a weekly, just once a week. And, of course, they had all the Ladies Aid tea parties, things like that, things at the church. Everything was in there. Yeah, a little gossipy paper. It wasn't malicious. It was just who had a luncheon at their place or whatever. And so, when he got older and came out of the Army, he went and took formal newspapering, went to college and took it. And he became a newspaperman. Boise Statesman was one of them. And he went down to California. And he worked down there for a while, about 10 years there. So that was good for him. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: He got started in-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Yeah, yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: What businesses do you remember being in White Bluffs? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Well, I remember Reierson's Grocery. And I remember around the back of it was a little creamery where you could--in fact, they picked up a can of cream at our back porch every morning, because we had, by then, two cows. And one was a Guernsey and one was a Jersey, and they both had lots of cream. So we couldn't use all the cream, even for six kids. [LAUGHTER] So they would come and pick that up. And my sister, Helen, always did the ironing. She liked to iron. That was her job. And so he would come, and here she'd be on that back porch, early in the morning, starting the ironing. [LAUGHTER] And he says, I don't think you've gone to bed. He was a kidder. But that was what she did, and she was excellent at it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: So there was Reierson's and-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: And the creamery. And there was a little garage back there, and I can't remember the name of it because we didn't have a car. But there was a little garage back there. And there was Pop English's drugstore. Everybody knew where that was. Pop English and his wife had no children. But they owned this little drugstore. And they made the best ice cream in the world, and he sold it there. And you could have an ice cream cone for a nickel. I mean it was an ice cream cone. And a dime was a double dipper, and it had two shelves and then one cone—it went down to one cone. And that was a dime. And it was hard, if you had a dime, to decide whether you wanted to do that or not. I remember my mother used to give us two pennies for Jesus to take to Sunday school. And I always put one in. I figured Jesus wouldn't care if I have a rope licorice from Pop English's. And years later, I told her, I said, Mama, if I would have known that Jesus didn't want my money like I do now--he wants our love, has nothing to do with my two cents--I would have brought you home one. She says, your Sunday school dress was the messiest thing ever. She says it was always was covered in black. And, she says, the rest of the girls I could just press the back of that little white dress with some water and make it good for next Sunday. And she says, they could wear a Sunday school dress for all month [AUDIO OUT] but you. But she says, I never knew that. And I said, well, I says, if I would've known better, which I know now, you'd have had one, too. [LAUGHTER] By then I was about 47 years old. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Oh, talking about the school in White Bluffs, how large was it, how many students do you think there were, and maybe the teachers that you remember particularly-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: I would say that, in my first and second grade class, there was 18 that I can name off, that I can remember. We had a little boy come there named Carter House. And I think his father was something to do with engineering. Allard, Sam Allard kept the irrigation system and the electric thing, and I think Mr. House had something to do with it. But we had never seen a child look like this before. He looked like he stepped out of a catalog. He had this blonde-- beautiful boy-- had this little blonde hair all cut so nice. And he wore little argyle knee socks and little suit pants and a little white shirt and little slaps on his shoes. And I thought, my gosh, that's the cutest little boy I've ever seen. And, of course, he didn't know how to share. And one day I was swinging on the swing, and Alice Moody looked out the window. And here was this little boy grabbing that swing and taking it away from me. And she says, we don't do that here. She says, you have to wait your turn. She says, when Leatris is done with it, she says, you can have it. It'll be your turn. [LAUGHTER] But they were probably nice people, it's just that they weren't White Bluffs-oriented. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: And so you want to talk about Alice Moody a little bit? She was your first-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Ah, she was a wonderful teacher. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: --grade teacher, is that right? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Wonderful lady. She taught first, second, and, I believe, possibly third. And there was probably, I would suppose, 18 in the first grade, and probably close to that in second. And then there was the third grade. And we had—we did not have separate rooms, but we had little partitions that she would put up so that we would keep our attention. And we did have monitors. Everybody helped everybody. If there was a little boy that needed help with numbers and somebody was good with it, she would assign them to help that child. It wasn't--it was probably the most together community. If something was unfair on the playground, it was put a stop to right away, sometimes by the children. And teachers, if they were in their room, they kept a window open in good weather because if there was anything wrong in the playground, it was either reported or taken care of. And I can't remember fights on school. I can't remember that, ever. It would never have been tolerated. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: How did you get to school, did you walk-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Oh, yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: --or did you ride the bus? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Everybody walked. The only children I remember that came in on a bus--oh, what was his name—Mr. Fisher's school bus. Mr. Fisher, I believe. And he came in on a little bus--with a little bus. And I think they were probably from out toward Saddle Mountain and farms like that because they had to go to school. But I do remember a little bus. And I don't even remember that it was painted yellow or anything. I think it kind of reminded me of maybe a van. But it had windows in it and it was kind of squared. It seems like it was dark gray. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Mm-hm. And so far was the school from your home? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Oh, I, let me see. We had to pass Saths’ orchard, the whole length of their orchard, and then Beldins’. And then we had to walk across the front of Beldins’ and their [AUDIO OUT] was pretty good sized. And then we had to walk up past Summers' up the hill to our house. So I would suppose it was probably a mile. And some of them walked a lot more than that. And Mrs. Moody used to bring kids in with her when she came to school because she drove to school. And she was around the Reach, around the--it was last reactor. And Old Town used to be there. The whole town used to be on the river at one time. But they moved it away because I think they were progressing. People were moving in, spreading out. Orchards were filling in. And I think that's why they probably moved the town. But we had a movie theater. We had a movie theater. And somebody from the Tri-Cities came over with a movie. In the summertime, we had a movie once a week, probably in the evening early, about seven. And then, in the wintertime, it was kind of hit and miss whenever they could get over or whatever, I don't know. I can't remember. But we did have movies there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Do you remember any movies that you saw over there? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: No, I wouldn't remember that. I probably wouldn't even have understood it. But it wasn't anything that was offensive because they didn't do that. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Where was the movie theater in relationship to some of the other businesses-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Okay, across the street from Reierson's Grocery, and also across the cross street where the railroad came to fill the cars, that was right across the street from Reierson's Grocery as you come in to White Bluffs. Then there was a main drag. And there was a railroad hotel there, because they had railroad workers that, when they went out to do things to the railroad--the rails out there--they had to have people. And then they also rented to other people if they came in and there was a room empty. And it was right across the street from Reierson's Grocery from this one that's burned off. And behind there was a building. And that's where they had the movie theater. And it was just an old building, I don't know. It had seats in it--not wonderful, but seats. And then they had a balcony on it, too, so that was good. Kids would go up there and of course, you know. One time we had some holy rollers in there that rented it. [LAUGHTER] And they were rolling around on the floor. And my brother and his buddies were up there taking toilet paper, throwing rolls down there. They were all in little--I don't know, rolling around. [LAUGHTER] The Spirit moved them, I guess. Boy, they got in trouble for that. [LAUGHTER] But it was used for a lot of things. If they had a community meeting or something, they'd either use it, the high school or that little building, depending on what it was about. Sometimes it was a farm meeting, or a new spray that was coming out, or what they should do and shouldn't do. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Mm-hm. I was going to ask you about any community events that you remember, either picnics, or Fourth of July things, or boat races-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Boat races we had right there. They did not start in Tri-Cities. They started at White Bluffs. It was wonderful. Mr. Kilian used to slice his big watermelons and sell them for $0.05. [LAUGHTER] Pop English used to sell his ice cream cones. Oh, and the Ladies Aid always had something going--cookies or something or a bake sale. And it was just a fun time. And we had a band. We used to gather up a band and have music there. It was pretty good. And in the spring, we always had a little May Day thing. And we had a maypole. And they would twine the strings around it like they do. And we had a program--quite a program--at the high school. And we had one that we were in that was the doll dance. And Alice Beyers was supposed to be the French lady who had the dolls. And so we had these cute little dresses on, little ballerina-type dresses. And she would come around and wind us up. That was the first start of it, and we danced to the tune, the doll dance. [AUDIO OUT] old, old, tune. And each one of us she wound up. And we started dancing. And we would dance around this maypole. And that was part of the program. And we had--oh, I remember my sister had a reading. "I want to live in the house by the side of the road, and be a friend of man," is the way it goes. And each stanza ends with that. And every single--my mother tutored her, her teacher tutored her--and at the end of every one of those stanzas when she got up there, "I want to live in the house by the side of the road and be friendly with men." It brought down the house, of course. Oh, my mother was so embarrassed. She was so embarrassed. [LAUGHTER] So when she-later in life--when she had a beautiful garden and a family of her own, I found that on a plaque that you put out in your garden, an open book with this on it in a plaque form. And it said, "I want to live in the house by the side of the road and be a friend to man." [LAUGHTER] I said, this is for old memories, Helen, and she laughed. She had a good laugh out of that. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: You mentioned earlier your Sunday school dress. What church did you go to? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Well, I think at that--first, we went to the Presbyterian, but then they closed that. But then we went to the little Lutheran church I think was up in back of the bank. And we went there for a while. But my dress was always a mess. I come home with licorice all over it because, of course, I had to stop and take one of those pennies, buy a licorice at Pop English's drugstore. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Do you remember any other churches in the community? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: I do not. I don't remember that there was Catholic church there. I don't remember that there was. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: I wonder—I know that the Wanapum people were in the area. I wonder if you have any memories of the Wanapum Indians, or-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Oh, yes. We had--I don't know that they--they were Johnny Buck's Indian tribe. My brother knew Frank Buck. He had two wives. One was old and had white hair, and her name was Deloria. And I don't remember the other one. But they were fine people. They came in and they would gather fruit off the ground because it was ready to dry. They would catch fish out of that river and smoke it and just grab your nose and want you to go down there and have some. And they were just fine people. They came in usually before cherries--you would see them before cherries--and then you would see them every day out in the orchards. And nobody ever charged anybody for that. They could have all they wanted. And my mother actually learned to dry fruit. And oh, that smelled good, just waft up and grab you by the nose. And they put it in little, thin sheets like cheesecloth. They'd make a rack with willows--make a rack, weave it, and put it between maybe stumps of willows, little tiny seedling willows that were coming up. And they would make these racks. And they would put this cheesecloth over it to keep the flies away. And they would dry it. And they would dry fruit all summer long--peaches, cherries, apricot, apples, everything. And they taught my mother that if you soak them just a few minutes in saltwater, they will not turn brown. And they won't salt the fruit. And so she learned how to do that. And the fish—oh! When they smoked that fish, you wanted to go down there and just have some. It just smelled delicious. They had a mixture they mixed up to put on it so it wouldn't dry it out. And they would take the whole bone out of it. They'd slice it. They take the scale off, the skin off, and the ribs out. And they would place that between these same little cloths and dry it. And they would smoke it from beneath and they'd keep that just really low. Oh, you could smell it all over the valley. You'd just--oh! And it was delicious. They did a good job. And they were interesting. Interesting, interesting people. And you know it was a good [AUDIO OUT] for kids. I remember my brother used go up, 14 or 15 years old, he and his two buddies Leo and Louie Russo--Leo Goodner and Louie Russo- and they'd go up to Saddle Mountain, take a little flour and little baking powder and maybe some salt and some lard. And they'd go up there and stay for a couple days. Nobody thought anything of it. There was a little spring up there and it was always green. And they'd just camp out and snare a rabbit or whatever. They just couldn't--they just loved it. Usually he went in good weather, yes. But we didn't have bad weather in summertime. But you wouldn't let a 14-year-old kid out now, three of them all by themselves? [LAUGHTER] But they had wonderful times. And it was a good place to raise kids, and it was good place to be raised, too. Really good. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: I want to ask you about the sheriff. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Oh, Roy Bean was a fine man. I think I told you about him coming to get the boys to take the-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: You did before we started recording on the film-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Well, he was a deputy sheriff out of the Tri-Cities. And I think the main thing--the office was up in probably Yakima, I'm not sure. But he had two little girls. And Roberta went to school with me. And Loretta came along later. She was younger by a couple of years. But he came to our house one morning, and he--we were just up. Dutch wasn't up yet, my brother. But he said, I wonder, is Virgil up yet? And he said, no, he said, but I'll go get him. He said, what's he done now? And he says, he's sure going to get it if he's gotten into trouble. And he says, now I want you to understand. He says, there's nothing going to be trouble about this, Joe. He says, I want you to go get him up. He says, his two buddies are in my car. And, he says, we're going to do a little favor for some people. And he said, I don't want any repercussions about this. I don't want any questions about it. If I hear of any beatings about this, he says, I will deal with it. And my dad went in and got Dutch up. And he came out and got in the car. He was dressed. And they went up to the packing house, which is right across from Reierson's Grocery. And he says, now, we're going to go get that car, which you pushed down this incline last night and released the brake. And he says, we're going to push it back up that slight hill. It was probably down there about seven, eight blocks. Well, it was uphill, now. It wasn't so easy. But, he says, I'll help you with the brake here. And he said, we'll keep this released. And he said, we'll push this back up. So he got those three boys--probably 14, 15 years old--to push that car about seven or eight blocks up to be iced. And he came home. He was pretty sweaty and he was pretty tired. And he wanted some breakfast. [LAUGHTER] But nothing was ever mentioned about it. And he was a fine man. He knew how to handle people. And he wasn't out there to bully anybody or--and later, he came to a family reunion. We called him up and invited him, because we knew he'd lived in Milton-Freewater, him and his wife. And, of course, Roberta-I kept track of Roberta because she moved here. That was his oldest daughter. And so I was glad to meet them. And we invited him to the get-together. And he mentioned that. And he laughed about it to Dutch. Dutch was a little uneasy when he thought we were going to invite the Beans. [LAUGHTER] And I said, he made a good joke out of it. He says, I've used that a lot of times, he said, on how to and how not to. And he said, you turned out pretty good. He says, turned out pretty good. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Someone else I wanted to ask you about-- when we were talking earlier, you were mentioning a man named Ellis John-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Oh, Ellis John was an interesting person. He lived down in old town in just one of the abandoned buildings. He had been on some kind of a merchant ship. And somebody on that ship that worked with him attacked him. And he was beating on him, and he killed him. And so they sent him to a penitentiary. It was a kind of an accidental killing. He didn't mean to but he was really--that's what I got out of it. But he lived there. He came to White Bluffs because it was such a nice little town. He came through there and he liked it. And he was an artist, a real artist. He did pictures of people. And he would make a few bucks, did paintings of them. And when I had my 10th birthday--my mother used to leave vegetables and fruit on his porch because she knew he didn't have a garden. And she always left vegetables and fruit if we had extra--because we always had extra--on his porch because he was kind of a recluse. But he would come out and talk to you. He was pleasant. And when I had my 10th birthday, my folks bought Muriel Beldin’s girl's bike for me to ride. And it was a smaller bike. And he painted roses on the fenders of that blue and white bike. And I had the prettiest bike in town when I moved to Walla Walla. [LAUGHTER] So I always remembered him because I was fascinated with--in fact, I took art in school because I was so fascinated with him. He would sit there and sketch somebody and--right in front of your eyes-- and make it live. And you wondered how he did that. He used charcoal a lot, and pen and ink, and paint. Just-- and I always felt bad because his life was kind of wasted there. He could've been--I mean he could make a likeness of anybody perfectly. But he chose to be there because we accepted him, and we respected his privacy. He had been through a lot. And I don't think he was a murderous person. I think it was something that happened. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: So when and why did your family leave White Bluffs? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Well, in 1937, Hitler was very busy. And by 1941, he was even busier. And in June--in April of 1941, we moved to Walla Walla. My dad says, there's going to be some military. He says, you can bet your sweet life. He says, it's big enough to have some military. And he said, I want to be where there's some jobs. And so we moved to Walla Walla. And there was a veterans' hospital here and he was a veteran. And he said, I just think it'd be better, because they had surveyed our area in 1937, '36 or '37, I'm not sure which. But we kept surveyors at our house, so we knew they were surveying for something. And it took them, oh, a couple years to survey all that area that they were looking at. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: But you didn't know what they were-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: They didn't even know what they were surveying for. They were hired by the United States government. And they were employees of the United States government. So we kept Mama and Daddy Redd, we called them. And they were nice people. They had no children, and they just loved us. They just--she taught us really good things, things that we hadn't learned from our mom. Mama didn't know how to make fudge. She'd never had that much sugar to spare in her life. [LAUGHTER] So we all learned how to make fudge and penuche and good stuff from Ma Redd. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: So you knew they were working for the government, but you didn't know-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: We didn't know. They didn't know. But they were there about, I would say, two years. So I associate it with the Manhattan Project because it's a logical. Hitler was busy. Oh boy, was he busy. So I don't know. It might have been, it might not have been. We thought it was an irrigation project. We were so excited, because an irrigation project [AUDIO OUT] would have given us more, see, I mean, you could have irrigated more land. But-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: So how were you when you left White Bluffs and you moved-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: I had my 11th birthday here. It was in the spring of 1941. And we didn't have war until 1941, December 7. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: So as a 10- and 11-year-old girl, what did you think of leaving White Bluffs and moving to Walla Walla? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Oh, I thought I was going to die. For one thing, they had a Holstein cow over at Margaret Stearns's where we lived in her little house when we came here. And my father took care of her yard and milked her cow and separated the milk. It was a Holstein cow. That's like skim milk. I didn't drink milk for a year. I couldn't handle it. I mean, we were used to--we had cream on top of the milk. And then we sold half of it to the little dairy. And, I says, this is what we slop the pigs with. I'm not drinking this. And they worried about me--I wasn't drinking milk. But it was probably better for me, but I wasn't used to it. I wasn't used to it. The Scandinavian blood in me calls for that milk with the fat in it. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Did you keep in contact with the people from White Bluffs after you moved here to Walla Walla? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: I knew Bonnie Morris was here, and her sister, Ruth--her sister-in-law, Ruth. They were both Morris girls. And I don't think they were sisters. I think they were cousins because we had two Morris families there. But Ruth went to school with my sister Dorothy at White Bluffs High School. And I went to school with Bonnie Morris, who went to White Bluffs Grade School. And I'll tell you what, I was sure jealous of that girl. She could do handstands and cartwheels all around the White Bluffs Grade School and not stop. She could do a flip over and throw herself up and come down on her feet. And I just--I was just amazed. She was a couple years older than me, or I thought she was. But I don't think so. I think she was probably close to my age. She probably--maybe it was one year. But she was a fantastic athlete. Even the boys envied her. I mean, she could just flip around like a circus performer. And here I was, a tomboy, but not delightful with things like gymnastics. There was always somebody we envy when we were kids. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: So in 1943, a couple years after you moved away, the federal government came in and-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Cleaned out everything. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: --everybody had to leave. Did you hear about that from people you used-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: My sister was living there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Oh, she was, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: She was living in the Johnson place. She said nobody ever came and got the beautiful antiques she had upstairs. She had a teapot that came over on the Mayflower. The legs were--it was a silver teapot, and the legs were actually worn completely off. And it had the Ford name on it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: So which sister was this, then, who had-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: That was Dorothy, my oldest sister that I love so much. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: And why had she stayed there? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: She stayed there because she had husband who was a truck driver. And she was expecting her first baby and didn't really know what else to do. And he was gone. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Was this someone she had met in White Bluffs, then, or-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: She met him in Kennewick. She was working at Kennewick General Hospital at the time. And she met Vern Fouracre. And they got married at our house. In fact, we chivareed them at our house. And that was probably when--I was 13 when I was an aunt, so Colleen was born in '43. And she wasn't born there. She was born—she was pregnant when she was there but she was born after that. And that's when they moved them out. They had to move everybody out. And I always wondered whatever became of Mrs. Johnson's beautiful things, because they were museum things. They should've been in a museum. They shouldn't have been in an attic. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Right. Where did your sister and her husband go, then, when they had to leave? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Well, they went back to Kennewick. And Colleen was born in Kennewick. Was born in--[AUDIO OUT] Then she came to Walla Walla. And she had a little boy a year or two later. She had four. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Have you ever gone back to-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: We went to the Hanford-White Bluffs picnics, I think, four or five times. And then, of course, the people who were doing the arranging for it--Annette Hereford and I can't remember the other boy. I can't remember the boy. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Man off-camera: Bob Grisham, maybe? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: I believe, I believe. They graduated high school with Dorothy. And they just were getting too old to do that. And it was hard thing. And people were dying off. But Alice Moody was at the last one. I was, too. And I loved seeing her. And I knew her immediately. She looked just like herself, just exactly. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: So when you went to the reunions, it usually was a picnic, right, at the park, Howard Amon Park. Did you also do a tour-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Mm-hm. We did, we did. We could take our car in. First time, I think they had a bus for people who had no transportation, because the Tri-Cities had--they were old. Some people weren't driving anymore. So they evidently had acquired a bus for some that couldn't. And whoever had room in cars, we took them. But ours was always full because our kids were just fascinated by this. And we went to the dinners, little banquets that we had you. Mr. Reierson was there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: What did you think when you had a chance to go back and see the land, the area where-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Broke my heart. Just broke my heart. We had a hard time finding--we wouldn't have found where our house was, except there was a water tank associated with this pump. And it set out front. It was made--and a lot of the people had them. Some of them had brick with a liner in it. But this one was cement and was kind of cone-shaped, and evidently was a holding tank for the house, or whatever. I don't know, I'm not sure. But it was there. And that was still there. They hadn't knocked that down. That's the only way--and it set up on a hill. It was the first row of hills as you came down toward the river--dropped down the river to Old Town. And so, that was how we found it. But there wasn't any stumps of trees left. There wasn't anything left. They actually had the crew of conscientious objectors at McNeil Island come down and cut the trees and the wood out of there, and took it back for fuel by truckloads. And that was the last, just before they released--they were already starting to build the reactors and things and dig the systems underneath, and storage thing under the--But it was a wonderful place to grow up, and I don't know that they'll ever get it cleaned up. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Anything that we haven't talked about yet in terms of White Bluffs, any stories or events that stand out that we haven't had a chance to talk about? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: I just think it was the best place to the world to raise kids because there was a community spirit-- that I never saw favoritism. I never saw belligerence about minding rules. I always saw a humanitarianism. If you knew that your husband or your neighbors or anybody was having a problem, you didn't make it your business. You didn't gossip about it. It wasn't a usual. It was more of any empathy, more of a sympathetic, let's just do what we can for them. I never saw the malice toward anybody because they were poor or maybe did something wrong. If there was a wrong committed, it was straightened out and talked about by the two people that did it. And it was left alone. And they had a tavern there. [AUDIO OUT] And, even there, it was not tolerated for people to act like a bunch of savages or fights or--It was a place to go have a cold beer if you wanted one, but I don't remember a lot of drunkenness or--I don't think he would have--Harry somebody was his name. It ended up two people owned it, but I can't remember what their name was. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Oh, the tavern? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: And we were gone, but they told us about it. And I can't remember, but that was the last of it. And it was just a little tavern. I probably, I don't know--it was probably four or five little tables and maybe a row along the bar. I remember standing out there one time because my dad went in to have a beer with a friend. And I said, well I'll wait out here and eat this ice cream cone from Pop English. [LAUGHTER] I knew what to do with it. He was a fine man. He actually organized the White Bluffs band. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Oh, right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: The high school band. And he made room for everybody. Everybody had-- Ola Meeks could do the baton twirl, and she taught two other girls to do that. And they had white pants with a--it's either black or navy blue stripe down the side--and a white shirt, just a plain little white shirt. The girls wore a white blouse. And everybody had a part in high school band. And they went up to Yakima and they took first place. That little-- and competing against Kennewick, Pasco? It was amazing! Somewhere we have a picture, and I don't have the picture. I can't find it. [LAUGHTER] But Dorothy just loved it. She played a drum, and she just loved it. And they did a good job. No, it was a fine place to grow up. And it was sad, because it really was a neighborhood community. And there were people who had plenty, I mean, they had--there were well-to-do people there. But they didn't flaunt it. They were no different when they went to the Grange meeting. Or whether they were entertaining, it was not—there was not any class distinction. And especially at school I noticed it. That's unusual. That's unusual. And we welcomed it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Well, I want to thank you very much for letting us come here and talk to you today, and for sharing your memories-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: Well, you use what you can. I know you you'll cut, because, of course, you can't. You have to do what you have to do. But I know that people are going to give you some wonderful stories, stories about how they were accepted. And I'm sure every one of those people that you interview will tell you the same thing, that it was a wonderful community. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Bauman: Thanks again very much. I appreciate it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX45489217"> Reid: I appreciate your coming. </div> Location The location of the interview Yakima, Washington Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 227 kbps Names Mentioned Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community. Boehmer, Dorothy Boehmer, LaVonne Boehmer, Helen Boehmer, Virgi Boehmer, Darlene Ford, Henry Borden, Patsy Moody, Alice Bean, Roy John, Ellis Fouracre, Vern Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:59:59 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Leatris Reid Description An account of the resource An interview with Leatris Reed conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 8/27/2013 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-06-22: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.] Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection. Subject The topic of the resource White Bluffs (Wash.) Walla Walla (Wash.) swimming Walla Walla (Wash.) White Bluffs (Wash.) https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F91bc830435e20ab2f167731f6753a29d.jpg 07c79fb937ae0c69b708d6ee69024c9f https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F44d03d7ad701c05fcea08001a735079b.mp4 a1c266e40348c4f877dd5bfacbd661ab Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pre-1943 Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Description An account of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert Bauman Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Madeleine Gilles Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Northwest Public Television | Gilles_Madeleine </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Robert Bauman: My name's Robert Bauman, and I'm conducting an oral history interview with Madeleine Gilles. And this is July 2nd of 2013. The interview's being conducted on the campus of Washington State University Tri-Cities. And I'll be talking with Madeleine Gilles about her family's history, her years growing up in Richland. So let's start with that, if we could. If you could tell me about how and when, why your family came to Richland. Anything about when and why they came here. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Madeleine Gilles: Well, they came from Montana--Butte. I was about a year and a half old I think. And I guess they wanted to change from a miner to a farmer. And he was from-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Croatia it looked like. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Croatia, yes. And my mother was American. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: What were your parents' names? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: What? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: What were your parents' names? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Mr. Patricia and John Serdar. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: S-E-R-D-A-R. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: And did you have any brothers or sisters? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: I had two sisters which are a year and eight or nine months between the three of, you know. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Mm-hm, okay. And so when you came to Richland, did you have a farm? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: I don't know how he came by a farm, but I know that he had 10 acres on a flat. And my mother's father, my grandfather, lived up on a little hill above us. It's now out at, behind that Richland airport. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Okay. That's where the land was? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yes. It's still fenced off. There's nothing on it. [LAUGHTER] And it was by the irrigation ditch where we lived on the hill part. And the irrigation ditch had that flume across the little bitty gully onto downtown Richland. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: And you used irrigation water on farm? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: From that. Yes. They had weirs that went out to the fields and filled up. And you could water from there. They built little wooden waterways to where they wanted it, and then they'd have rails. And they'd flood the rails and then move it on to the next part of the field until they got it watered. And the ditch riders came by and kept watch on wherever it come out from the irrigation ditch. I forgot what they called those. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: What kind of crops did you have? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: We had alfalfa and a big garden and strawberries and grapes and raspberries. So we were busy. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] And did you have any animals on the farm? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh, yes. We had about ten cows. And they pastured over where the golf course is now. Oh, I forget the name of it. It's a pony. [LAUTHER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: [INAUDIBLE] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Horse name. Anyway there's a golf course down there now. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Where the pastures were? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Where the pastures were, yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: And so, the alfalfa, was that a crop you grew and sold? Or was that used for your animals? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh, it's to feed the animals in the winter. You cut it and stacked it and put it on a wagon and hauled it over and threw it up on a haystack. [LAUGHTER] One way or another, in the barns, they used to take the horses and somehow off of the hay wagon. They wrapped it up, and then the horses went ahead and drew it up into the loft. That way. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: And so, what other buildings were on your property besides the house itself? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: The barn. And we had a cellar, a ground cellar, and it was covered with dirt and had to open up. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: What was stored in there? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh, canned fruit and things that--sauerkraut in the barrel and anything like that. And then we had where we kept the potatoes and the turnips and all that stuff in another building. And we had chickens. Of course, they harvested the turkeys in the fall. I don't know where they sold them, down to the butcher or somebody. And then we had the barn down the hill farther in front of the haystack, and that was--and there was a barnyard of course. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Growing up, did you have jobs that were yours on the farm? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh, yes. Worked all day outside and in the sun. [LAUGHTER] Hoeing weeds and picking strawberries early in the morning. We worked for people who had lots of asparagus. We cut asparagus early in the morning. In the spring, you know? And my mother worked in the packing shed, and they packed the asparagus ready for market. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Was this someone else in Richland? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: I don't know. I think they shipped it. They shipped it in wooden crates. Not too big because they'd get smashed. And the strawberries, the same way. We picked strawberries. We picked apples. We picked pears. We did those kind of things for other people, plus we picked our own fruit so our mother could can them. And we was busy. We had to bring the cows from the pasture home in the morning after cutting asparagus—about 3:00 in the morning, you get up, cut asparagus, bring the cows home and milk them and take them back. Get ready for school. It was busy. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: That's a lot of work. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yeah, but it didn't hurt me. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Did you have time to do fun things--swimming or-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh, yeah. We went down the irrigation ditch down to where it kind of stops down at where there's land and it kind of opened up a little space where kids could come. And we'd go swimming and take a bath [LAUGHTER] with soap. Didn't do much good because you had to run back up the flume home. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: But anyway it was--and well, at school, we did our sports, softball and basketball and went to different little towns for competition games. And see who'd go to Spokane. We went one year, but we lost by--for basketball--lost by one point. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Yeah. I saw a picture of a basketball team-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yeah, I was in it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: In the picture, right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: [LAUGHTER] Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: What position did you play on the basketball team? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Pardon? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: What position did you play on the basketball team? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Guard. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Do you remember any of the other young women who were on the team? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: John Dam’s daughter was. She was forward. And I forget her name, but Margaret somebody was center. And I don't remember them all. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: You must've been a good athlete then. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Well, I guess I was. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Well, there's also in that book, a note that you had won a race. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: A race. Yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: At a picnic? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yeah. At the end of the year, they'd have school competition between the grades and stuff. And that was for my running. Because we did a lot of running in soft sand. So when you go on hard surface, you could really go. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: How did you get to school? Did you walk to school? A bus? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: No, no. A bus came, and we could see it when we lived on the little hill above the flat surface where we were at first. We could see it. Then we'd take off and run down to the corner and catch the bus. And then he'd pick up all the rest of the kids and go down to Richland. The school was behind John Day and Nelson's mercantile store there. There was a gas station there and a church where we had baccalaureate and all that stuff there from the grade school. And the high school was down the road from the grade school. Richland High. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Right. Do you remember any of your teachers from? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh, Carmichael and—oh, I don't remember. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Any idea how big, how many-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Kids? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Kids there were. Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Well, I think there was about 500 people. So they must have had at least three or four kids. So multiply that. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] Right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: We had a lot of kids. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: I want go back. You mentioned your parents earlier. And your father was an immigrant from Croatia. Did he speak English? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Not very well. There was nobody for me to talk to but the animals. [LAUGHTER] Because my mother didn't converse with him. Because she didn't know his language. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: And how had they met? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh, at a dance in Montana--Butte. And he knew her father in the mines. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: I see. And they got married and moved out-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yeah. However, they were advertising at that time for homesteading in the '20s, you know. I was born in 1920. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: How they got there, I don't know. Because they never talked, and I didn't know what to ask them anyway. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Now, did you have electricity at all in your home? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: No. Kerosene light, lamp, and lantern to go to the barn and milk in the winter and stuff like that. Had kerosene. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: And did you have--how did you get from--did you have a car at any time, or was it horse and wagon? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: First of all, it was a wagon with a bed in it. We rode it in the back, and they rode in the front of course. And took a long time to get there, [LAUGHTER] wherever we was going. They belonged to the grange. And we'd go there for their meetings and dances. And my mother played piano, and she played for the drill team and for the dances along with other musicians. And they used to have house parties in the wintertime. They'd clear the floor, and whoever could come to play--and if there was a piano there, my mother played. And they danced or they played cards or--that was their entertainment, so to speak. Go from house to house to play cards. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Do you remember any other events? Were there 4th of July-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh, yes. We'd go to the park. What is that park called? Where the golf course is--on the river. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Howard Amon Park? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: No, no. It's a golf course on the river. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Columbia Park? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yeah. They'd go along there, and people would come. And they'd make homemade ice cream, and they'd do their wieners or whatever—chicken, it usually was--a lot of fried chicken and pies and cakes, and they had a good time. And then, as I remembered, they used to shoot firecrackers off of the old green bridge and do their fireworks there. So everybody'd go down by the river there and watch them. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: The fireworks there. There was a ferry that would take people across the river. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Did you do that very often? Take the ferry across the river? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: No, we didn't. But we did go down to the Columbia, down to the boom where they caught wood and trees and stuff and get our wood for the winter, or if you happened to be lucky, get a part of a tree or something. They'd saw it up and have some wood to build something. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Did you interact with any Native Americans in the area very often? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh, yes. When the fishing season was on, they used to go up to the Yakima someplace where there was a little dam. But they put their tents out across the ditch from us, and they'd have little tents. And then they'd have a three-sided tent where they'd have their fires out there and cook their fish and dry it and stuff like that. We had to drive the cows by the trail, went right by their camping site. [LAUGHTER] And my mother used to say to my little sister, "Rosie, if you don't be good, I'm going to give you to the Indians.” [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: What about any neighbors or were there children from other families-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh, yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: --there a lot? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yeah, Arstolds and-- they didn't live close. They had their own acreage and stuff. And we used to go to their house a lot. And Bumgarnters and--gee, I can't think of their names now. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: That's okay. So in terms of the weather here--it can get pretty darn hot as we know today— </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yeah! </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: --in the summer and pretty cold at times in the winter with no electricity. What was that like? Do you have any memories of the heat or the wind or the winter weather? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Well, we just made do. We had wood for fire. In the cook stove was the heater of the room. We only had two rooms on the hill, and the one house we lived on in the flat was a big one room thing. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Oh, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: And my grandfather, after he died, we moved up there. And the cook stove kept us warm, but it didn't go all night. [LAUGHTER] You had to get up in the morning and put the kindling in and light it and get it going. And in the summer, you just stopped. And again, in the shade, that's all you could do. And it got really hot because there was no trees. No trees. And now you have green and trees. It makes it cooler. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Did you get many dust storms? Do you remember many dust storms? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh, yes. Lots of hard sand would blow against your legs when you was going back and forth to the pasture. Ooh. That really stung. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: How about any wild animals? Were there coyotes? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh, coyotes, and rabbits. They used to have rabbit drives. A lot of men would get together so far apart and they'd drive the rabbits in front of them and then shoot them. Because they were a real menace. They get into your garden and eat everything up. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Yeah, I've heard about those before. Eating the crops were the problem, or the gardens, yeah. So I understand that you had a little bit of an accident. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yes, I found a blasting cap that my dad had brought from Butte to blow up the sagebrush. It was big and tough to make more land, you know. And so I found an old one, and I thought it was full of dirt, picked at it and it blew up. Took my fingers off. But I made it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: How old were you? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: I was 16 and very upset about it. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: And so did you have to go to a doctor or a hospital? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh, went to Lourdes, and Dr. Spalding took care of my hand. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: And was that the only hospital? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Only one. And it was 13 miles, and the neighbors that had bought the flat--one room shack--took me over there. It was 13 miles or something. And I had to wait for a baby to be born before they could take care of me. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Wow. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: But they decided to keep my hand and not cut it off because it looked so bad. So I have a hand, just not the digits. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: How long did you have to stay at the hospital? How long did it take to recover? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Well, I stayed there longer than I need to do because I didn't have any place to go. My mother and father got a divorce, and she was very ill with arthritis. It's the kind that just comes overnight, and I forget the name of it. But it's a bad one. And so she and I were in the hospital the same time. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Oh, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: So they kept me there, and then I went to work--for three months they kept me, and I worked folding bandages and stuff before they autoclaved them or sterilized them. And then I worked at the doctor's home for his son--to take care of his baby son. Then I got to go down and eat at their restaurant in the evening. So I was just the daytime stuff, and I stayed there. And I was there till I decided that I needed to go to school and learn to work over. So I went to the Catholic school in Spokane--the House of Good Shepherd it was at that time. And they took wayward girls, but they decided my sisters and I would be a help at the place to do other things. But to mind the rules the same as they had to, which was okay with me. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: So how long were there? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh about two and a half years. My sister Mary was there 13 years, and Rosie was there 10 or so. But they did like Mary. She run the movie machine and helped the nuns. And I worked in the kitchen, and of course I learned to work. And worked in the where we ate in the cafeteria. And I got to go with the nuns when they went soliciting. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: So did you grow up Catholic then? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Was there a Catholic church in the area anywhere? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: No, we had to come to Kennewick. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Oh, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: My mother brought a few children, and my sisters over in the summer for us to take our catechism. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: So Kennewick was the place to go? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yeah. So we got our proper papers to be a Catholic. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Do you remember what the name of the church was in Kennewick? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: St. Joseph's as far as I know. That was the first church, and I think it was on—I don’t know--down by the canal. Now I don't know where it is for sure. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Yeah. I think it's on Clearwater now, but it used to be on-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: And now I think it's on-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh, yes. I know where that one is now, but I don't know where they moved the old church. Yeah, it's on Garfield--the new church, St. Joseph. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: So after you were in Spokane for about two and half years. What happened to you at that point? Where did you go from there? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Pardon? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Where did you go after you were in Spokane? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh, I worked at a home and took care of invalid fellow and his baby when the family was gone. And I worked in the kitchen and fed the baby and all this. And they rang a bell for me [LAUGHTER] to come and wait on the table and stuff. And then they split up the families. The mother and father and the husband and wife moved out. So then I came out to--where did I go? Oh. I have to think. Where did I go? Oh, I went back to Richland, and I lived with a family that--he worked on the freeways and highways building, and she was home with two or three kids. And so I stayed there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Oh, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: And in the summertime, we'd get to go to up in the mountains where they built highways. I forget the name of the one we was that one summer. Anyway. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Remember the name of the family that you were-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yeah, Drieslers. Jack Driesler, and Nellie. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: And then you said your parents got a divorce around the time you were 16, also. Is that right? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: And so what happened to the family farm when your parents got divorced? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: The government bought it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: And so did that happen when you were in Spokane that the government bought-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: No. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Or later? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: No. I was at 16, and I was born in 1920. So that was what? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: That was 1936. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: And the government came in '43. So it would've been later. So did both your parents stay in Richland after they got divorced? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: No. He went back to mining up in Metaline Falls where his brother lived. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: And how about your mother? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: She stayed here and married a guy that he lived out there by our school teacher. But when Hanford bought them out, they moved to Prosser and had a mint farm. And then my mother, she died young. She was 53. She died in '55. She had like emphysema and kidney problems. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: You mentioned that your grandfather had some land them on the hill above you. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Now, did he stay there until '43? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: No. He passed away before we moved up there. So that's how come we moved up there. Some of this is mixed up, I know. But I think it's off. [LAUGHTER] Been a long time ago. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Is there anything that I haven't asked you about, any--either events that really stand out in your mind or really special memories or anything like that I haven't asked you about that you'd like to talk about? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Not that I can think of at the moment. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Off-camera man: There was a continual-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Speak up. I can't-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Off-camera man: --relationship between Rosie who was the youngest girl and-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: We were raised together. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Off-camera man: --Mary. And they ganged up against Mary and pulled all kind of pranks like— </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Off-camera man: --chucking cow patties at her and stuff like that. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: So a little sibling rivalry? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh, she wanted to boss everything. [LAUGHTER] When she hears that, she'll--she's still alive. And Rosie wasn't going to have that. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: And Rosie was the youngest. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yeah. She was feisty. She passed away. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: And all three of you were in Spokane for a while. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: So what happened--your sisters, when they left Spokane, where did they go? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Rosie went with my cousin Tony to Waukegan, Illinois and got a job there where they made pills-- filled pills. I don't know what you call it. But anyway, she got a job there and lived there about five years and came back out and met her husband out at the area. He was a--he drew--what do you call it? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Draftsman. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Draftsman. And she was a secretary. And they met and married and moved back to Wenatchee where he was from, up there. And lived till they both passed away. Mary is still here with her husband Jim. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: And then how about yourself? When the war came, did you move out of the area? Where else did you live besides-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Oh, I was up in Seattle working at the Swedish hospital. And for a while, I worked at the Bon Marche, downtown Seattle and helped the baker in the morning and cleaned the steam table. They had a little restaurant at that time, the Bon Marche did. I helped the baker make pies and cakes and stuff. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: And when did you come back to Richland or to the Tri-Cities? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: 1986. 50 years later. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Changed quite a bit probably since you've been last living there. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yeah, I'm lost yet! [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: I was wondering what you would think would be important for people to understand about the community of Richland that you grew up in? To understand sort of what it was like to grow up there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: I think it was a great life. And children worked and there wasn't so much vandalism. And of course, there wasn't that many people, but they were good people. I can't really think of anything. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Well, thank you very much for coming in here. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: This was terrific. Some really good stories and memories, and I really appreciate you being willing to come and talk with us. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: There's probably a lot more, but I'm sorry I don't remember it all. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Well, what you remembered is great. Thank you very much. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Okay. You're welcome. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: It wasn’t too bad, was it? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: No, I just wish I knew more. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: No, well, what you remembered is really— </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Man: You did a terrific job, I’m proud of you. You obviously knew a ton of it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: Good, good, good. As I said, some of those memories are great— </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Camera man: Can I take a picture before you go? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: --because people now don’t know— </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Man: They had no electricity, they had no water, I mean you had to pump it out— </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Bauman: It’ll go along with your information. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Man: When we put together all the stuff. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: I hope it’s a good one! I don’t take good pictures anymore. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Man: Oh, well, we all say that. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Gilles: All right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX120208943"> Man: [LAUGHTER] </div> Location The location of the interview Washington State University - Tri-Cities Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:37:27 Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1920-2013 Names Mentioned Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community. Serdar, John; Gilles, Mary; Gilles, Rosie Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 250 kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Madeleine Gilles Description An account of the resource An interview with Madeleine Gilles conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 7/2/2013 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-05-30: Metadata v1 created – [ J.G.] Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection. Subject The topic of the resource Richland (Wash.) Kennewick(Wash,) Richland (Wash.). Public Schools Hanford (Wash.) Kennewick (Wash.) Richland (Wash.) swimming https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F481704163b47c34d27908164c1fdc660.jpg 8a2e3bfe1edb0794b3cd9318e0e310fc https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fedbf9aa4f2660aeda91b37fc51893caf.mp4 c40bdc18fe18a007a6e57a94ccfefe2c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pre-1943 Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Description An account of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert Bauman Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Robert Fletcher Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Northwest Public Television | Fletcher_Robert </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: I'm Robert Fletcher. R-O-B-E-R-T F-L-E-T-C-H-E-R. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Thank you. And my name is Robert Bauman, and today is August 20th of 2013. And this interview is being conducted on the campus of Washington State University, Tri-Cities. So let's start, if we could, by maybe having you talk about your family and how they came to this area, what brought them here, when they came-- that sort of thing. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: My folks--my mother and father--grew up in Wisconsin. They knew each other in high school, and my father came out west, because my mother had relatives in Idaho, and after she graduated she came out here to stay with them and go to business college in Spokane. So my dad was fond of her and he followed her by working his way west. He was an expert milker, and he could always get a job in a dairy. Because when you worked in a dairy milking cows you had to get up at 3:00 in the morning. And so when he'd work his way from Wisconsin to maybe South Dakota, and he would see--in the depot, in the train depot--he would look on the bulletin board for openings for milkers and he always found work. And he could stay there for several weeks till he got enough money to move on. So he wound up in Lewiston, Idaho, I believe it was. And eventually he and my mother got together and they got married in Coeur d'Alene, 1912. And I had a sister born in 1915 in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, Francille. And another sister was born in 1918. In the meantime, during World War I, my dad had been working in a, what's called electrical substation in Coeur d'Alene. And during the war then he went over to Bremerton and worked in the shipyards at Bremerton, wiring electrical wiring on the ships. And my mother eventually followed. My mother became a secretary and could do the office work. But after kids were born, she didn't do much of that. And then after the war was over, Bremerton jobs closed up and he went to the back to work at another electric substation down by Walla Walla, Milton-Freewater. And he had been raised on a farm and he had a desire to be independent. So at that time there were developments in Kennewick and then whole Tri-City area. They were developed because irrigation water was being made available from the rivers. And in Richland, there were private developers and they would get bonds that were backed by just state. The state government wanted to support the development to get started, and that was in late 1918s, '20s. And I'm sure my dad--well, my dad told me that there were brochures that these companies would advertise that, come to Kennewick or Richland, that water was available, the climate was ideal, and there soil was great, and you could make a living on just a few acres if you knew how to farm. So my dad travelled out here. His name was Francis, and C. F. Fletcher was his-- And he bought 20 acres of sagebrush. It was what is now on--what did I say? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Spangler? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Spangler Road. He bought 20 acres there out there at the top of the hill. It was all sagebrush. And then later he bought 10 acres down below the hill where there now is a trailer park or mobile homes. He had to arrange to get the teams of horses to pull out the sagebrush and level the ground. My mother and—I believe that she had two children then, Francille, and Medo is my other sister's name, born in 1918. They came out by train from Walla Walla to Kennewick. And Morton Hess met them at-- Morton Hess had a improvised old pickup that dad said that they met them at the depot in Kennewick, and he brought them out to the farmhouse he'd rented. Before that, my dad had a team of horses, and he brought all his possessions in a wagon from Milton-Freewater to Richland that took him three days, he said, to make that trip with the team of horses. And so after he got the house rented, then he sent for my mother, had my mother come out with the children. And they lived in this rented farmhouse about a quarter of a mile away. And there were a few other houses, a few other farms being developed at the same time. So that took a lot of effort. It was 1920, and he told me that he had to put in the irrigation. The company brought water to the edge of your property and then you had to put in the pipe yourself. They were cement pipes, about three feet long, 40 pounds, eight inches in diameter. And he said he put in several hundred feet of this pipe and he thought he'd done a pretty good job. He worked hard. Turned the water on and it just leaked all over, so he had to do it all over again. He was pretty persistent. And then they had a hard time the first few years because he was small, a small person, and a greenhorn. About the only income work you could get then was to work for the irrigation company if you wanted to earn some money. And usually that was when the water was shut off and they had to clean and repair the ditches, open ditches. And he said they wouldn't hire him for a year or two because they thought well, he was a greenhorn. He wouldn't last anyway, and he was kind of small. But he stuck it out. And what happened was they had to put in some new pumps for the irrigation system, and these were larger pumps. They were three-phase motors, and there wasn't anybody immediately around that knew how to fix them, how to hook them up. Excuse me, I get very emotional. So he told them he thought he thought he could do it. He wasn't too sure. He said he could do it. He told them he could do it. He said he, personally, he said he wasn't too sure. But anyway, he went ahead with it and they worked fine. And after that, he said he didn't have any trouble getting a job for the irrigation district. And later on, several years after he got the farm started and everything, he did become manager of the irrigation district. When I talk about the irrigation district, it wasn't a huge one, but there was about 5,000 acres under water. And most of the farms were like ours, 20, 30 acres. And because you had to have a team of horses. You couldn't farm like you can nowadays with everything mechanized like it is. Lots of hand labor. So I was born in 1922, and I believe that they were still in this rented house. But in the meantime, they'd begun work on a basement, which was about half underground and half above ground with concrete side walls. And so it was above the ground enough, it had had fairly good sized windows. And there were just two rooms. The total probably wasn't more than 40 feet long and 20 feet wide. And above that they put a temporary sort of a shelter that was more of a tent house with a wooden roof and canvas with a wooden frame with canvas around it. And that was our bedroom. That was where we had our bedrooms. And it was cold in the winter and hot in the summer, but in the summertime you could roll the canvas up and the evening breeze would cool it off. In the wintertime we had feather beds and my mother would warm up hot irons on the cook stove, and we'd wrap them in towels and put in our beds. And we managed, thought we were living all right. There wasn't any bathroom--there was no indoor bathroom, no indoor water supply. He dug a well down below the hill. Had to do it by hand, about 20 feet deep. And the way to get water up to the house, he had a, we called it a stone boat, it was a sled. He hooked the horses to it, the sled, and to pretty good sized barrels, I suppose 40 gallon barrels or something. He'd fill them with water from the hand pump down below the hill. And he'd circle around it, bring that sled up. That was the water supply for a few days. But of course, it didn't always last long enough. And I can remember my mother carrying two buckets [EMOTIONAL] of water up the hill. Excuse me. It was a hard life for women, especially, carrying water up the hill, and all the other work they had to do then. She was in charge of the garden. Of course, we had our weekly bath by a copper tub on a cook stove. And the tub, and that's where we took our weekly bath, and shared the affair. The two rooms in the house were the kitchen and then where we ate. The other room was the living quarters and where somebody might sleep if they were not feeling well, otherwise we slept upstairs in the tent house. So those were the early days. It took them quite a little while for my dad to get established, and also get some crops down that they could pay for their living expenses. And they had Fresnos then that the team of horses would pull, and they'd scoop the dirt and dump it in the low places and level it out. And farmers worked together on that. I can remember our neighbors--as I said, most people lived within a quarter or a half mile of each other. The Barnetts and the Nickolauses lived close to us and we shared--when it was time to put in some of the crops, the Barnetts would come with their mowing machine and there would be two or three mowing machines and everything going on, and we'd go back and forth and get the job done. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: So what sorts of crops did you grow then? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: We--it was truck farming. We had to raise--we had to have cows. Truck farming was not too reliable. You had to, to fall back on, you had a herd of cow--most all farmers had a herd of cattle which they had milk cows and some beef cows. And you milked the cow--you had your own milking and made your own cheese, but you could sell to the creamery in Kennewick. And we had a milk house where we'd separate the cream from the milk. And we had the Twin City Dairy, I think it was, would come by once a week and collect the milk. We'd keep the milk in a cool water place or something. I don't remember now in details. We didn't have refrigeration. Maybe they came back twice a week. I'm not sure. So we had a herd of cattle, and of course you always had a team of work horses. And I had a pony when I got old enough, about third grade I think. In school I got a pony that had been tamed--he had been one of the wild horses from Horse Heaven Hills. And a bunch of horses had been caught. And we bought it from another fella, and he as a real-- Shorty was his name, and I thought he was the greatest horse, because he could outrun any horse. We had horse races. And a lot of the kids, the only horse they had to ride was a work horse. So I was very fortunate. Anyway, we raised alfalfa for the cattle and the animals. Alfalfa and clover, and of course you had to mow the hay in the summertime and let it dry and put it up in wagons and carry it and take it into the hay stack for the winter. We also raised some acres of corn, of field corn, although we could eat some of the corn when it was quite young, but it was mostly raised for the cattle. And we had an in-ground silo where we had a—we’d bring in, when the corn was mature we'd cut it down with machetes and bring the corn stocks and ears and all and run it through the chopper and made silage out of it. It would ferment in this silo, which was about 20 feet deep and it was dug out near the barnyard. And about I guess 12 feet wide or so. As a kid it looked bigger, probably, than it actually was. But anyway, that was part of the barnyard. And with the silage and the haystack, we kept the cattle going through the winter. Because you had to have enough hay to get through and that took quite a load. And then for field crops, we had a cherry orchard of three or four acres. We raised asparagus three or four acres. And that was a job that--that was a cash crop that game on early in the year in March. And the whole family pitched in. We got up early, almost daybreak to cut the asparagus. Before school you had to have it cut. And then they'd go ahead and you had to pack it in crates to get it ready to market. So we had the asparagus, and then we had, between the trees in the orchard-- one time my dad experimented with peanuts. And I don't think they turned out too well because I don't remember him having them very long. We planted strawberries. We had strawberries that we picked after the asparagus was done, the strawberries would be get ripe. And then the cherries would get ripe in June usually. And so it was staggered out. And then we always had a field of potatoes that you'd dig with a team or horses and a digger. But before you did that, you had to get seed potatoes, and they came whole. The family would--we had a cellar in our house. We'd cut those potatoes into quarters, so there's an eye on each one and that would sprout into a potato plant. And we spent probably a couple weeks, maybe not that long, cutting the seed potatoes into where they could be planted in the field. And I'm trying to think of other crops that we had. I know he tried different ones. We had peas--peas in a pod. And I don't think that paid off too well because I don't remember it lasting too long. Oh, we had some peaches. Not a big orchard, but we had some peaches and apricot trees. Those were sort of under my mother's domain, the garden and the apricots. And she made sure that we all pitched in and helped do the weeding and planting and picking. And all of that had to be picked and canned for the winter. I can remember my mother and sisters working hard--doing a lot of work canning. And the cellar was just full of--they were quite proud to display, in those days, to display their glass jars of fruit, peaches and everything. And took it to the fair to see if they could win some blue ribbons. So we didn't buy too much from the local grocery store, except cooking oil and bananas--fruit that wouldn't grow here. Orange. Those were a treat. Just a few times during the year bananas and oranges we got at Christmastime or your birthday or something. And the store was John Dam's, John Dam Plazas down here, named after the Dam Grocery Store. And there were two men, John Dam and Victor Nelson. They ran the grocery store. And you didn't go looking for your things. You handed them a list. You wanted two gallons of kerosene for your lamps and lanterns that you needed. No electric lights. And as I said, cooking oil, and flour and sugar in bulk. And once in a while you'd get a treat of candy or something such as that. So I think that covers pretty much what the farm was like. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: The crops that you grew, the cherries, strawberries, did you sell those somewhere? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Yeah. We picked and put them in crates. There was what they called the Big Y--it was in Kennewick. And it stood for Yakima I think. Yakima--there was a branch of Yakima Produce Company. And later on I worked there nailing, making boxes for different kinds of fruit when I was in high school. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Mm-hm. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: In fact, most kids did extra jobs like that. Excuse me. I've got to take a drink. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Sure. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: All right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: I was going to ask you about your farm. You mentioned some underground silo. Were there any other buildings on your farm? Any warehouse or barn or any of that sort of thing? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Yeah. There was a barn from the cows, of course. And there are pictures in my booklet of some of these chicken houses in the yard, a couple of chicken houses. And a milk house. We had pigs. The pigs consumed a lot of the excess milk. You could--they'd eat most anything you had that was extra. And that was another thing we shared was when it came time to butcher a cow or a calf or a pig for meat, there was a man that was sort of a local veterinarian--I don't think he had a degree--Sam Supplee. If your horse got sick, he knew what--or an animal got his foot caught in the barbed wire, he knew how to treat it. And he'd come by. And he also knew how to butcher animals quite well. And he would come out. And I can remember that we had a hole, a pit dug out where we could put a fire in there, and it was covered with some kind of bars or metal affair. And a vat of water would be put in that over the fire at ground level. And adjacent to that would be a platform where the pig was killed. And after it had been killed and the organs taken out, they'd roll it into that vat of boiling water and then pull it back out again after a few minutes. Then you could scrape the bristles off of the pig. And Sam Supplee then would do the rest of the butchering. They'd hang it up to cure overnight, and then to cut it up. And for his efforts, he'd get part of the meat, or other people that had helped out, and that's the way that they operated. And he was a local person they turned to. There were other veterinarians in Pasco or Kennewick, but he was the one that they mainly relied on. Our horses, we had two work horses, Star and Monte. I can remember them well, and that was one of my jobs when I got home from school, after, was usually to rub them down after a day's work in the field, because they'd be all sweaty. Or on days when I wasn't at school, too, in the summertime, too take them down to the ditch where they'd drink a lot of water. They got real hot and sweaty. And then take the harnesses off. And there's lots of preparation before you could do too much. And so those were some of my jobs was to take in--you got home from school, the first thing to do was take in the firewood for the wood stove or the heating stove. And there were plenty of other things to do around the barnyard, to clean out the stall, or clean out the barn and see that horses were fed and such things as that. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Mm-hm. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: The thing was, I think that maybe a little different than nowadays, kids knew that they were part of the family and that they were an important part of the family. And that they had jobs to do. And just it was the thing that made families close. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Sure. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: I wanted to mention, too, that we did have special family friends. I mentioned the Barnetts. And they had kids that were--Dan Barnett was about my age. And my sisters had--they had daughters. Anyway, they had kids about our same age. The Hackneys were another family that lived not very far away and had a farm. And there was Richard Hackney and Dan Barnett and I were always good friends for a long time. And some other kids in that area, the Supplees. So I guess I forgot where I was here. The Hackneys and the Fletcher families and the Carlsons were particularly close. The Carlsons also had children that were our ages. And we would get together for family picnics, and especially Fourth of July we'd make our homemade ice cream and take to Pasco Park where there'd be fireworks. And then in the summertime, we always had a break in the farm work of about four or five days where we could get away from the farm. Usually it was around the Fourth of July or a little bit after. And we would get away because the irrigation ditches were shut down for a few days, about four or five days in order for the ditches to dry out and the weeds could be cleaned out. Because they clogged up with moss and other stuff. So that they would dry out the ditches and we could get away from the farm, as long as we had a neighbor to take care of the animals that we had. And there were enough other people that would do that. We'd trade off. So we would manage to get away for about three or four days and go up to above Yakima, Naches and up into the woods. And we we'd take our tents. One of the, the Hackneys, Art Hackney was a school bus driver, and school bus driver had to have their own buses. They'd own their own buses. So he could do with the bus whatever he wanted during the summertime. So he would be the one that we would load up the bus--he took a few of the seats out that could be taken out-with our camping gear in it, and some of the rest of the people would ride in that bus and others would go in their car. We'd invite some of our friends to go along too. So we'd have quite a group and several tents set up there around the lake up at Naches, Rimrock and up in that area. We had a wonderful time up in there with all our friends, and sitting around the campfire at night and hearing the stories that the older folks had to tell. So that's-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Mm-hm. A real sense of community there, yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Yeah. Part of the community. It was a close-knit community for sure. And naturally, you had more close friends with some of the people than you did with others. But as I said in my book that there was no--when you were gone, nobody as I knew, locked their houses or worried about any of that sort of thing. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Mm-hm. You mentioned earlier that the house you lived in there was no running water, right? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: No electricity. Did you ever have a telephone? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: That's another little story. My mother, her relatives lived in Wallace, Idaho, and her uncle, aunt and uncle, her uncle was a master carpenter. And they were very close and would come down to visit us and they were very helpful. When we were, when my folks were just starting out, they were a backbone to help them out as much as they could. They bought eggs from them and they'd ship them. I have some letters that my mother saved of that period in time. You may be interested in some of those. Anyway, they would come down, and after my dad--after he had this basement house built, they was able to save up enough in about 10 years to--Josh Pentabaker was my uncle's granduncle's name--was the main carpenter. And they arranged to buy a load of lumber from a lumber yard or a sawmill up in Bickleton, and they rented a truck or got somebody to haul this load of lumber down. And this Josh Pentabaker and my dad, and I think he got some local help, to get started on building a house above to replace that tent--actually a tent house that we had above the basement house. And then they enlarged it also. They made the basement twice as large to accommodate a more modern house. And that was in 1933 or 1934. And I think it was 1934 before we occupied it. And that included indoor bathroom and running water. In the meantime, before my dad was able to build a dig a new well up on top of the hill, he had to go down 60 feet for groundwater. And so that was quite a project. But he finally got it done. And he got an electric motor then. By that time, see, there was no electricity until during Roosevelt got the REA started, rural electricity or whatever the word is, REA. And you got an electric pump to pump the water up into a tank. And then you had pressure to run the water from the tank into the house--had water pressure. And so we had running water, we had an indoor bathroom, and those were quite appreciated. I think we got electric stove--that was one of the first thing. And that was quite an improvement over a wood stove. Oh, and then there was. And he didn't have enough money, I don't believe—oh, let me tell you, or let me go back just a bit. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Sure. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Josh Pentabaker got this house pretty well built, but he had to go back and do his own work back in Wallace, Idaho. And my dad negotiated with a carpenter here, a local carpenter, Vandersant-- he was a Dutchman. And my dad traded a cow, a milk cow for this fella to put in a--he was a master carpenter, too. He put in the kitchen cabinets, is what I'm trying to say, and some of the other cabinets in the bathroom and things like that in exchange for this cow. Now, there may have been other things involved, but that was the main thing. He told about that in later years, and I can vaguely remember. In addition to the basement then, we got a root cellar where we kept most of our things cold. But anyway, before he could get a refrigerator, he cut a hole in the wall of the kitchen and he made a cabinet inside, and hung outside a metal tank or a metal thing that held water. And then he ran down some gunnysack fabric and that wetted enough to evaporate and cool the cabinet inside. It was quite a contraption. But it worked enough that it probably wasn't much cooler than the basement, but anyway, it was up and it was handy. So that was when we--in 1934 I think that we occupied the house that's there now. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Did you ever have a telephone during the time you were there? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Yeah, we had a phone. You cranked it. I'm trying to think whether we had it when we lived in the basement, whether we had it there or not. It was a party line, and there would be three or four people on the same line. And you answered according to how many rings. If it was two rings it was yours, or a short and a long or something like that. And of course people listened in on what was going on. We had a crank--it was, you cranked it up in order to make the signal. And there was a main station downtown. We were three miles from the downtown area up on what is now George Washington Way. And what's the name of that street? I can't remember all those--the house was on-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Spangler? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Spangler, yeah. Spangler Road. We had to--you kept up--Dad kept up with what was available. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Mm-hm. How about news? Was there a newspaper, or how did you learn about-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: There was. There was the Benton County Advocate came out once a week. In fact, I think I still have some copies of that somewhere. It was mostly local, of course. Somebody was entertaining a company from Wallace, Idaho or somewhere, or somebody was sick in the hospital. Ed Peddicord was the--as I remember, he was older than myself but younger than my parents, and he became the first postmaster when the Hanford project took over, and he was the postmaster for quite a few years before he retired from the Richmond Post Office. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: I wanted to ask you about the school that you went to. Where was the school? Any memories you have? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Okay, there were, in the downtown area of Richland, the--I'm trying to relate it to--the grade school went from grade one through grade eight. And it was two story with four classrooms on the bottom and four on the upper level. I think they had electric lights, as I remember. The floors were wood floors, and they treated them with oil before school was started and at Christmas vacation. So when you came back from school--they'd wipe them up, the oil--they'd treat the wood floors. They'd wipe up the oil before classes started, but there would still be all these spots left on it. And so we had to take our shoes off when we came home at night because we would track oil, that oil. That was just for a few weeks or for a week or two. And the stoves had a jacket around. Of course they were--I believe they were coal stove--they that coal. And there would be a jacket around, a metal jacket around the outside to it, a couple of feet from the stove itself so the kids couldn't get up and get burned. But the jacket that surrounded them was probably three or four feet high, metal jacket. And we would—I remember hanging our white gloves things on that metal jacket to dry them out. And that was in the back of the room of course. That was your heat in the classroom. As I said, the bathrooms for boys and girls, most of them separate of course, were outside where you went out to the bathroom. And I don't recall any running water or anything in the—The other, the high school was, it wasn't torn down when the project started, Hanford project, right away. And it was built more--it had indoor bathrooms, was more up-to-date, more than the grade school, four levels. There are pictures of it in my booklet. So that was quite a step up. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Do you remember any of the teachers from either school, or do you have any favorite teachers from that time? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Oh yeah. I remember most of my teachers. My first grade teacher, Ms. Randolph, older lady. And she was very good. I can remember putting our mittens up around that canopy around the stove in the wintertime, put your mittens up to dry. And I can't offhand remember, but I can visualize most of my teachers. There was Mrs.--Miss Mallory--she was single then. Taught me in fourth grade. And there was Bill Rader, our eighth grade teacher. Kind of he was a pretty good disciplinarian. If people got out of line, he had a paddle that he didn't mind using. There was--I can't think of the names, really, offhand. And then of course, in the high school I remember more of the teachers that I had. The superintendent, he also taught a few classes in, because the grade school had one class of every grade level. I started in the first grade, I was five years old, and I became six in November. And the kids that I started with, about half of the 20--I think there were 20 in my graduating class--about half of them were the ones I started in first grade with. That's how permanent the group was. There was a lot of permanency. And we moved onto this--where each grade you had the same ones, you knew the people. There would be two or three changes each year. And like I said, of those 20 or so that started, probably about half of those in my high school class were the ones I started first grade with. And so we knew each other very well. And the others I'd known quite well, too. My wife, she came later and joined when she was in about seventh or eighth grade I think, and she graduated two--I graduated in 1940 and she graduated in 1942. And in my graduating class there was 20, and hers there was only 12. I don't know why particularly. The high school, it was in freshman year you usually took Typing and it pretty well diversified. History classes, English classes. I can remember the teachers, Mrs. Deighton and Mrs. Carmichael. She's the one that got very emotional when the kids acted up and would carry on. Mr. Carmichael was the superintendent, and Mr. Whitehead, rather. We had basketball teams. We played against--Kennewick and Pasco were out of our league. They were from too big a town. So we played Benton City. I played--even though I'm pretty short, I was on the basketball team. We didn't have a football team. We weren't big enough. [LAUGHTER] The high school was only--with four classes, probably only 80 students altogether. And so I was on the basketball team the last couple years anyway. And we would go up to--Hanford was about 20 miles upriver, and White Bluffs. They were a comparative size. And to Benton City, and also to Finley. We used to call it Riverview then. It was a comparative size to what we were in Richland at that time. So we had a group that we played softball league and basketball. No football that I can remember. We weren't big enough to be in that. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: And did you take a school bus to get to and from school then, or how did you-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Yes. We had--as I said, Art Hackney had a school bus that they owned their own school bus. They had a contract with the district. And there's a picture of myself and my two sisters in that booklet I gave you, waiting for the bus and there's a picture of the bus. It was kind of a--it looks kind of obsolete now, but that was the way they did things then. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: So you graduated high school in 1940. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: 1940. Then I went off to Cheney for a year. And decided I wanted to--didn't want to continue there. I wanted to--I thought I wanted to be an engineer, but I didn't have really the background from the school. At least I could blame it on that. So I transferred to Pullman in my sophomore year. And during beginning of my junior year, I was taken in--I was in the ROTC and we signed up for deferment or whatever you call it, but they said we could finish out the year we were in during my sophomore year. No, it must have been my junior year. That’s the third year. But it turned out that they couldn't—they took us, they drafted us and I think it was about January of my junior year in Pullman, from WSU. And at that time I was a member of Sigma Chi. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: So was that January of 1943 then? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Yeah, it was. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: At some point that year, of course the Federal government started constructing the Hanford site. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Right. I came home before--they allowed us, when they called up the ROTC, fellas in Pullman, they gave us a couple weeks to come home and see our folks. So I came home, it must have been the end of January of 1943. And saw my folks, and said goodbye to my sweetheart, Betty Kinsey was her name--became my wife. And after I went back then, I went back to Pullman, and they took us shortly by train from Pullman over to Fort Lewis. And it was an old, real old train that I mention in my booklet that looked like it was one from the pioneer days. There was a--I don't need to go into all the detail, but there was a coal-burning stove in the end of this railway car for heat, and we went over there in the first of February to Fort Lewis. We were not in the army until they took us over there and were forced in it at Fort Lewis. And shortly after that, I got word from my folks that the word had come out that Hanford and White Bluffs and even Richland, it was all going to be taken over by the government for this Hanford project. And that was in, I believe they got word in late February. And the people up at Hanford, which is, of course, is where the actual reactors were, were notified and given about 30 days to evacuate. And my folks, of course, we lived--my dad was the manager of the irrigation district at that time, of the Richland irrigation district. And they had more time because that was where the workers were going to live. But in the meantime they built Camp Hanford out here where we are sitting about right now, and maybe just a little further north. And you probably have the history of Camp Hanford and all that. But anyway, they were allowed to stay I think about six months, whereas the others further up where the reactors were being built, they had to get out quick. And so my folks looked around. They bought a place. My dad, by that time, they offered some of the people work. Most of them were farmers and they wanted to continue farming. And that was my dad. He, by that time, the kids were gone. I was the youngest. The other two, my sisters, were married and off and living on their own. So he decided he'd go back to farming, and they offered him a job to see to some of the irrigation, the way it was continued. But he decided he didn't want to do that. And a number of people did take jobs here for temporary. So where was I now? [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: So your family had six months you said after they were-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Yeah, about six months. They found a place in Kennewick then, and my dad then bought some place and he put in a fruit orchard over on what became Blossom Hill in Kennewick. And we took over the old house. When I got out of the Army--I told you about that in my booklet here, that we took over their house, the two-story house that was on what's now where Denny's is at the corner of Kennewick Avenue and the Umatilla Highway. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Do you know how much money your parents were given for their-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: In those days, at that time, the government was not as benevolent in their takeover of land. And they did not really offer what the land was worth. So my folks, my dad was one of the leaders of the group that took them to court over the offer. And this lingered on for quite a while, because my dad was one of the--as a manager of the irrigation district. And John Dam that the park is named after, and two or three others, they figured that they were being offered what the land had sold for in Depression days, which had just been more or less begun to get over in 1943. And my folks and others were beginning to feel established, that here they'd worked most of their working lives for 12, 15 years getting to where they felt like they were established and could make a good living. And now they were being offered this, where they had to leave relatively quickly. And not being offered enough to buy something comparable in other areas, where they found they had to pay more than what they had been offered. So this went to court and drug on for a while. They did get a settlement that my dad was involved in. But it took quite a while and it still did not--they were not too happy about it. I'll put it that way. But anyway, they got over it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: And so you heard about this happening when you were at Fort Lewis? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Yeah, I was still in the service. I was sent from there to Camp Roberts for infantry training. And I was there until June. See, this happened--I was taken in up in February I guess it was, and we had 13 weeks, almost four months, I think it was, of infantry training there in Camp Roberts in the desert in California. And then I was sent back to New York City. I had an opportunity--then they took some people to specialized training or a specialized training program called ASTP and I was able to get into that because of my college background and I passed some tests, I guess, and so forth. And so I was back there at the time and at Camp Roberts in California at the time that all this took place in Richland, and their dislocation and-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Do you remember what you thought at the time when you found out? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: [LAUGHTER] What I thought about that? About all this happening you mean? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Well, so much was happening, you didn't have time to think too much about it. Because I was involved in the training and we were kept busy night and day pretty much, and then the infantry training camp and being back there. But I heard about it. They kept me up on it, and there wasn't much you could do about it, and neither could they, because that was it. You could appeal, but that was a long process, the appeal was. So they just took a time to get over it. They got over it eventually. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Are there any events or things from your childhood growing up in Richland that sort of stand out? Special memories that we haven't talked about yet? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Probably quite a few things. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: A number of things I mention in his booklet that I gave you. One thing I particularly remember as a kid was I had this pony, and my neighbor kids had ponies too, or else work horses that did the job. And so we could roam around quite a bit. We had a lot of freedom. We all had rifles. We went out hunting. And the jackrabbits were quite numerous, I remember. Going just about a mile from where we are now, there was a sand hill over here off of Stevens Drive, which we called Pole Line Drive. Those days there was a sand hill over there. And there was an irrigation ditch that ran along this sand hill. And we'd go in and the boys--take our clothes off and we'd swim in this irrigation canal. There was a flume there, too, and that was kind of an interesting thing to go through. And we would take our rifles, and there was one farm that was close to this sand hill called--I'm trying to remember the name now, Sam's. Anyway, he had a--his farm was right adjacent to the open sagebrush land and sand hill. And if you were there in the evening--he had an alfalfa field right along the edge of this sort of a desert area. At certain times in the dusk, there'd be whole bunches of jackrabbits would come in. I remember we would go there with our rifles, and my friends, Dan Barnett and Richard Hackney and I, and we'd wait for dusk. And you could shoot these rabbits. And of course Mr. Sandberg I think his name- yeah, Sandberg was his name, he welcomed anybody that would get rid of the jackrabbits for him because they were destroying his alfalfa field. And so we'd shoot a bunch of jackrabbits. And they did have jackrabbit drives once in a while, and they had pictures of them. I might have some in some of my folks' stuff. But anyway, we had ponies or horses and we'd go out, and sometimes we'd go up the river from here, Dan Barnett and Richard Hackney and I. And as I said, I had a pony that had been caught on the open range and he could outrun practically any horse around. We would go up there and we'd camp out for a day and we would find some old prospectors up there. They would be panning for gold. And I don’t think, from the looks of them that they found very much, but they were interesting characters that'd tell you stories about their life. And we kind of envied them a little bit, but nobody wanted to do what they were doing. Anyway, then we would go up there and we'd camp overnight. Other times, we would go up there--I said that my folks and the Barnetts and the Hackneys had-- we had a boom in the river. We'd catch driftwood coming down for our--did I tell you about this before? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: No. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: No, okay. If I ramble, tell me. We'd go up, my folks or my dad and the other men, we would have wagons--we'd hook the work horses to the wagons. And we'd take enough food to last a couple days. And us boys would go along, and some other boys were old enough to help, and some of us were too young to do much, but to tag along and have a good time. And we'd go up there and we'd set up a camp, and the men would have a log boom up there. They'd attach logs to each other and run them out into the water. And when the water would rise in the spring, it would lift these drift logs from upstream, clear up around where Grand Cooley is now, before Grand Cooley was built and any other dams. And these drift logs would drift down, if you had a log boom out you'd catch them, as the water would--the high water from the snow melt. And if your log boom was out far enough, you'd get a whole bunch of logs in there and that would be--which then we'd go up and the men would take their team of horses and use their chains to pull these logs out of the water that had been caught in the log boom. And then they'd have to cut them up enough to put on their wagons to haul them down home. And this would take two or three days to do. In the meantime, us kids, the younger ones, we'd have a great time with shooting rabbits and doing some fishing off what was left of the log boom. And fixing our hot dogs over the campfire. It was quite an experience. And we all wanted to go. I think the girls envied us. They couldn't go. I don't remember any of the women going. But when they got the wagons loaded, they had them all--I remember they had sideboards on them, so that they would be loaded up to the maximum. And of course the roads weren't too good. The horses would be really worn out by the time we got these loads down to where we lived. And we'd have to wash them off, rinsing the horses off with a hose because they'd be all that, and it would be quite late in the evening before we made it home. So that was quite a big event in our lives, and especially for the young fellas like us, we thought that was great. I'm sure the men folks were glad it was over. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: So we had quite a few trips where we went out. I had a friend, Scotty who lived out in Yakima River, and I would go over--he was the one that I think I told you about the time that--maybe it was in my booklet. About the time that our well--the well that we dug up on the top of the hill, the 60 foot well, it had been real cold that winter, and usually the well didn't freeze, but it froze that winter. And so Scotty, my friend, he was the adventurer more so than I was. He said, oh, I can go take a blowtorch down there and thaw it out. Well, he did. My dad led him down this well. The well was hand dug and it was only about so big around. And there were iron steps put in the cement as they went down. As I said, it was 60 feet deep. Of course the water stood up in it about 20 feet or so. It would fluctuate. So Scotty went down with a blowtorch to thaw this pipe out because it had frozen the pump. And he got down there and I guess the confines of the gas or something, it exploded, and he was lucky he wasn't killed. He made it. Somehow it went upward rather than downward and he was able to get out. But his face was black and his eyebrows were singed off. And he was quite a mess from that occasion, but he didn't have to be hospitalized. They put cream on his face and I don't remember whether they got the pipe thawed out or not. I don't think so. I think it took a few days before it got the water up. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: So if someone was to ask you what it was like to grow up in a community like Richland, how would you respond to that? What would you say? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: It was an interesting place to grow up because you were involved in all the activities. You were important as a member of the family. There were chores to do. You also had interesting experiences. You had time to play with your neighbors and develop your own activities and sports to a great extent. I guess probably I look back on it more with rose-colored glasses than it actually was, because I'm sure it was harder for the adults, too. Because it was kind of touch and go for them many times. There was no WPA or relief organizations. People helped their neighbors out when they needed it. I can remember a family that lived not too far from us. The man, the husband died, and they had some fairly young children, the Fraziers. And the wife was left with these--I forgot how young they were--two or three youngsters, and their small farm. And the people of the community just helped out. There was no other organization that they knew of. And later, Bruce Frasier who was in that family, who was about my age. He wasn't a classmate, but he told me years later at the reunions we used to have, he said, did you know-- [EMOTIONAL] did you know how much help your mom and dad did--I'm sorry. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: It's all right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: How much help your mom and dad gave my folks. And I said I had no idea. He told me that my dad and mother, and others--he said it wasn't just them. But they're the ones that made it possible for him to survive. And this, they didn't talk about it at all. Excuse me, cut it off a minute? Wipe my eyes here. I'm glad to get this opportunity. Don't take me wrong. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: That’s all right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: I am glad to get the opportunity to talk. There's not too many people who want to listen to it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Can I have a little drink? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Sure. I think we're just about finished anyway. I think we've covered a lot of the things that I wanted to cover. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: All right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: So I guess is there anything else that we haven't covered that would be important to talk about? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: I think we've covered everything pretty well. I've probably gone side-tracked a lot. And it was a role in that community, as I said, that they did help each other out in many ways. And that they're very independent, too. And there aren't too many of us left. We still get to have a reunion. We did-- it's getting down to where there aren't very many of us left. Last year we met at the Old Country Buffet and I had a good time. I think there may have been about 20 of us. But about half of them were descendants, children that brought their parents, who needed help to get there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Oh, okay. So this is a reunion of people from Richland? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: The old time Richland, yeah, they lived in old time Richland. There's another-- the Deranleau, Ray Deranleau, he was quite a storyteller, he still lives here, and he was just a year or two younger than myself. And Alice Perkins is his wife, Alice Perkins-Deranleau. And I kind of think he'd be in the phone book. If not— </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: And Price Colley. George Colley his name was, but there's a Colley family that he was there last year, and he's quite a storyteller. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] About what time of year do you usually get together? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Usually in the middle of September. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Oh, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Middle to late September. Edith--I used to be the one that was in charge of getting the literature out and the reunions set up. Anyway, Edith Wiedle-Hansen, H-A-N-S-E-N, is the one that is doing it now. She was in my wife's class two or three years behind me in graduating from high school. And she's still here. I could maybe give you some more information on that later, if you wanted to call me. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: I don't know, if you have trouble. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: I just want to thank you very much for coming in today and being willing-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: I enjoyed it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: --to have me asking questions. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Fletcher: Okay. I hope that some of it’s good use. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405"> Bauman: You've been very helpful. Thank you very much. </div> Location The location of the interview Washington State University - Tri-Cities Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 01:22:15 Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1922-2013 Names Mentioned Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community. Hess, Morton Dam, John Nelson, Victor Supplee, Sam Barnett, Dan Pentabaker, Josh Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945 Peddicord, Ed Hackney, Art Hackney, Richard Kinsey, Betty Frasier, Bruce Ray Deranleau George Colley Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 171 kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Robert Fletcher Description An account of the resource An interview with Robert Fletcher conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 7/20/2013 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-05-25: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.] Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection. Subject The topic of the resource Richland (Wash.) Kennewick (Wash.) Pasco (Wash.) White Bluffs (Wash.) Richland (Wash.). Public Schools Hunting Kennewick (Wash.) Pasco (Wash.) Richland (Wash.) swimming https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Facc731c5a9eac023b2b39579d02a6d5a.jpg 66652e9837d55e920d43539024b709a9 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F427796f012ecab479d8a74d099f98483.mp4 66caf5583bbb52ba26c7f7cb60a15e08 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pre-1943 Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Description An account of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert Bauman Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Finley, Catherine Location The location of the interview Washington State University - Tri Cities Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Northwest Public Television | Finley_Catherine Robert Bauman: You ready? Ready to get started? Catherine Finley: I guess. Bauman: Okay. My name is Robert Bauman, and I'm conducting an oral history interview with Catherine Borden Finley. And today is July 9, 2013. And the interview is being conducted on the campus of Washington State University Tri-Cities. And I will be talking with Catherine Finley about her family's history and about her memories and experiences growing up in White Bluffs. And so maybe we should start. I'll ask you about your family, if you could tell me how and why or when your family came to the area, the White Bluffs area. Finley: My father, Archie Borden, was born in White Bluffs. And his mother and his father, George Borden, come down from Priest Rapids some way. His father was a government surveyor. And he come down the river and settled in White Bluffs. And Grandma Pete came from Ellensburg. Her grandma [INAUDIBLE]. And they married, and they had the three sons. George Borden made a living by running horses between the river and Gable Mountain, and the army bought them. So let's see. And he drowned in the river when my dad was eight years old in 1906. Bauman: And-- Finley: Pardon? Bauman: He operated the ferry at White Bluffs? Finley: Yes. Bauman: In addition to running the horses. Finley: George Borden also owned the ferry, and he had land. He was quite successful for that time. And my mother, she come from South Dakota. And I don't know why they made it up in White Bluffs. But they were married in 1927. Bauman: And what was your mother's family's name? Finley: Shanahan. And they had the seven children. And the oldest one just passed away last year. So there's still six of us left. And one of dad's brothers had three children. And we had lots of cousins and not too close together. It was quite sparsely settled, because of the orchards and pastures and things like that. We lived about two miles north of White Bluffs. And we just grew up. We had all sorts of things to do. We had all the animals for pets. Bauman: What kind of animals did you have? Finley: Oh, we had horses and cows and sheep and dogs and cats and lots of little banty chickens, which we packed every place. The sheep my dad kept on Locke’s Island and brought them over in the winter so they would lamb on the mainland. The cattle, the cows, stayed on the home place. We rode the cows. [LAUGHTER] I don't know if Dad ever knew that, but we did. [LAUGHTER] And now we also had horses that we rode. And that was not the main entertainment that we had or what kids do, but we spent many hours on the horses and playing with the other animals. And the neighbor kids migrated even though it was like a mile or more to the place, and we had the cousins to play with. And we played with the Indian children when they'd come in twice a year to fish, Johnny and his--I don't know how many. I think there was four or five men in the crew and their wives. And they were great playmates, those Indian boys were. Bauman: What time of year would that have been? Finley: They'd come in the spring for the spring salmon run. And they’d come back in the fall for the fall salmon run. And they dried their fish on long racks on the river, on the bar. And their horses were then turned loose on the bar with everybody else's. So we had a lot of fun with them. I think they're gone now. Bauman: And about how long would they stay in the area during the spring? Finley: They were there probably like a month, maybe a little longer, whenever the salmon run was that year. And they always had racks and racks of salmon. So it must have been very good fishing. And they fished at night. They had their canoes that they stored in dugout cellars and little wire pots. And they put hot coals in them or burned something, and anyway put them over the canoe, and the fish would come to the light. And they'd dip them. And then they'd bring them all in in the morning, and then the women proceeded to process them. [LAUGHTER] But it was interesting and a lot of fun. And we learned a lot from them. And Johnny was very, very interesting. He was the chief of the--they were Wanapum Indians. And then at the end of the season, then they would go either--sometimes they went on to the Yakima. Apparently they caught another type of fish there, down here at the Horn's Rapid Dam. Otherwise, they went back up to Priest Rapids and lived in their teepees until the dam was built. And they still lived in their teepees. They parked the car in the living room at the house that was built. And as I say, it was very interesting. And then when they closed it all, they went to the Yakima Reservation, or to Toppenish. But we played with--there was many different nationalities of children there, and we not only went to school with them, they were always welcome at home. And we were just as welcome in their home. Bauman: Do you remember any of the neighbor families or children? Finley: Oh, yeah, there was Johnson. They didn't have any children. They had a nice dairy. And Killians was a German family. Supplee was a German family. Walkers was a French family. I don't remember what the Goodners were. But they were all very successful in fruit. My dad didn't have any fruit, but he traded sheep for fruit, bartered. And we were very fortunate all during the Depression that that's what happened. So we were never hungry. We didn’t really know--I imagine the folks knew what the Depression was. Us kids didn't. We never had bought toys that I remember. My dad would carve things out of wood, out of mostly bark that come down the river, I don’t know, boats and mangers and whatever happened to be handy. But we could always go down on the bar with him--we never were allowed to go to the river by ourselves--and pick up odd driftwood. And we made animals out of them for some reason and rocks. Rocks made wonderful trucks and cars and just any old thing—corrals to keep all these stick animals in. And we went to school in a four-room schoolhouse. It was a large white building, divided in four rooms. And that was about a little over a mile from where we lived. So in the spring and in the fall when it was still warm, we walked to school. And Mr. Anderson, the school bus driver, would pick us up during the winter when it was cold. And he was a father of Harry Anderson that was quite active in the White Bluffs picnic when it was here. Bauman: Do you remember any of your teachers from the school? Finley: Yes, Mrs. Moody. Mrs. Moody, I remember her well. She taught kindergarten, first grade, second grade, third grade, and sometimes fourth grade, depending on how many children were present. And then my second teacher I had there was a Ms. Smit. And she taught the fourth, depending on who had the most room in the classroom, and fifth and sixth. And the seventh and eighth graders got to go upstairs. They were special. They were really big folks. But then when the government come in, the last year they held school we went for six days a week so we could get the time in because the letters come in early spring, like in February, and not knowing when they would close or however they were going to work it, so we were out of school the first part of May. Bauman: So you went an extra day to make up for the-- Finley: Yeah, to make up for the school days that we wouldn't be able to go to school. Bauman: So how old were you at the time, then? Finley: I was in the--hm, gotta think. Fifth grade when they closed the school. I was a year older because I liked one grade real well. And the sixth grade I spent in Hanford. And then the folks moved and we went to Benton City. But it was fun. It was interesting, like I said. Sometimes I kind of feel sorry for kids that have so much that they didn't have to work for. They weren’t, you know, not denied--but we didn't know we were being denied anything. We didn't know we were supposed to be poor. [LAUGHTER] Or that he didn't have a car. Dad had a car, but he never used it. He rode one of the horses into work. It was just easier, and he could sleep coming home because the horse would come home. Bauman: Did you place have electricity at all? Finley: Oh, yes, we had electricity. We had indoor plumbing, until the government moved in and they cut it all off. I mean the plumbing and the water, stopped all the wells and brought our water out to us in 250-gallon wooden barrels every day. In the summer they'd put ice in them so it would be cold. Winter, they'd chip the ice off. Oh, and put us up a nice, new toilet. We really thought that was--an outside toilet with a moon and a star. Now, why that impressed kids, I don't know. But it did. Bauman: What about a telephone? Did you have a telephone? Finley: Oh, yeah, we had phones. My grandfather, Grandpa Shanahan, Mama's father, worked for the telephone company, Wilkerson and Brown out of Kennewick, had the telephone company. And then of course, when the government come in, the government had it. My dad was a refrigeration engineer. He made ice for the railroad. And in the summer, they would bring their fruit cars down, and he would pack each end of the car with ice. And they put all their produce and food in the center. And as long as it was moving, there were fans moving in it, and it kept it cold. And that railroad went back to Othello, and the Milwaukee line picked them up. Bauman: Okay. Finley: But we got to go on the train. We got to ride in the caboose. If we wanted to go to Seattle, we rode in the caboose. And the brakie took care of us, no trouble at all. Mom would just put us on the train, and by that time, my grandparents had moved to Seattle. And he'd go down to King's Station and take us off, and then put us back on when our visit was over, and we'd come back. Bauman: Did you get to do that very often? Finley: We done it probably twice a year. Sometimes we stayed longer. Sometimes it was just a short time. Bauman: Now, how big was your property? Finley: I really don't know. We didn't have a large place. The most I think, other than orchard, I think most of the land was kind of leased, because the island, he owned. And the government bought that. But I don't know how much land they had on the mainland. It seemed like an awful lot once in a while. Bauman: And so in addition to the house that was on your property, were there other buildings on the property as well? Finley: On the last house we lived in, yes, there was a barn, and there was this two-story house. And there was a large barn and the chicken coop and whatever buildings that would be on a farm. On the other one, there was a barn and a chicken coop. And they called them soldier tracks at that time because they were built for the men coming back from World War I. And there was a house and a barn a chicken coop and a nice, new toilet. That always seemed to be very important. And, well, it wasn't occupied then. Some other person could lease it for the land. I don't know how many acres were in even those places. But in one of Dad's places, it was up, and then there was a flat, and then it dropped on down to the river, to the river bar. And there was a lot of land in that place, as I remember. It looked like a lot of land to a kid. Bauman: Now again, how many siblings did you have, how many brothers and sisters? Finley: Seven. I have one brother, and I had five sisters. Bauman: And were you all born in White Bluffs? Finley: Mm-hm. Teresa was the last one. She was born in '43, I think. Bauman: Okay. So we talked about the school. I was wondering about other community events or celebrations. Finley: Oh, they had the grange hall down in Old Town, which is where the ferry landed. That was where any big gathering was held. It was a bigger building. And we had a theater that run movies. Mr. Anderson, the school bus driver, he also run the theater. And I think he brought a show in probably like once a month for kids and adults. And there was a lot of little school plays. And the high school, there was always the high school. And there was always the ball games. So there was there was a lot to do, as I remember. Bauman: You mentioned that your father wouldn't let you go down to the river without him there, is that--? Finley: An adult had to be with us. Bauman: Did you ever go swimming in the river? Finley: Oh, yeah. We swam in the river. And he went back and forth across river all the time. He had a boat, and the river was part of living. But Mom always made sure that we didn't go down by ourselves. In the summertime when the water come up, it come up clear up almost over the whole bar. And it was very swift, because it went through, cut off like an island. There Barrett's Island. And the water flowed through that in the main island, and it was swift. And the river was quite narrow then, because there was no dams on it. And I think Dad always said it went at 12 miles an hour. And there were whirlpools that his dad drowned in, was a whirlpool. And so we were well watched. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: [LAUGHTER] Sure. Finley: And we played with the cows. Like I said, we had the cows we rode. Bauman: You mentioned taking the train to Seattle. Finley: Mm-hm. Bauman: Did you go to any of the other communities, Pasco or to [INAUDIBLE]? Finley: They would go to Yakima. And that's where I was born, and then they took me to White Bluffs. And I don't know why they went to Yakima, because that was about 60. And Pasco must have had the hospital by then. But they didn't have a bridge across it. So they had to ferry there. And I don't know why they didn't. Probably because Benton County wasn't a county at that time. There was a Yakima County, but no Benton County. And that's where they went, and Pasco. And we went to Walla Walla and Prosser, of course. Then by the time I was born, that was a county, so then all the business had to be tended there. Bauman: We talked a little bit about when the government came in 1943 and the impact it had on the school and the school days, an extra day. I was wondering what memories you have of that. What response did your parents have to being told that they had to leave? Finley: It was very hard for my dad. Because he had lived there his life. And I think one thing that was bad, they just come in and took the property and said, the next letter, you have 10 days to leave. And nobody knew when that 10 days was there. Some of them got their letters very early. My mom and dad didn't get theirs until they closed the plant. Nobody could go into it. But the fruit farmers had to leave their crops on their trees. And that was very hard on them, and no future, no money, cash in hand, like that they could go out and buy another place. And most of them had just been farmers, so they were spread all over. I mean, they moved wherever they could get a place to live. And it was hard on them. My dad sold sheep and sold most of the cattle, kept a couple of the horses. And he moved to Benton City in '44, I think, we moved there finally. But he worked there. He kept his job there as making ice. Bauman: Okay. Finley: Though the train didn't use it for that purpose or transporting food. DuPont used it for the summer months. They had huge, large holes in the ground. They just dug down in rock and covered it with sawdust, put sawdust in it. And you covered it with plastic and put ice in it, and then covered it again. And then in the summer when the plant couldn't produce enough ice for their needs, they dug that up or uncovered it and took it out, it was just like when they put it in there. We watched him do that, going back and forth to Hanford on the bus. Because the bus ran parallel of where they were building this vast hole in the ground. And that was very interesting. Because no kid could understand what they were doing. And at the same part, they were building F area. So we watched that, what you could see of it. You never knew if you were going to get home at night on the school bus for fear they’d dug a trench across the road. Bauman: You actually stayed there. You were there for several months after they started constructing-- Finley: Yes, oh, yeah, we were there probably a year and a half after--no, we were there longer than that after we got the letter. Like I said, we were the very last ones out there. We left and the gate was--the civilians couldn't go back in then, just the workmen. They had taken out all of Camp Hanford. And all of the construction work was done, or finishing work on the plants that they had started to build. After we left, they built some more. They put H in right down where we lived, tore down everything. They tore down—they put bulldozers through most of the buildings out there, probably to prevent coyotes and rats and whatever else from occupying them. Bauman: Do you remember what you were told about what was being done out there? Finley: As I remember the letter, it just said that on such-and-such a day, your land was taken by the government. And no, nobody knew what was going on. And that caused a lot of hard feelings, because they had their share of boys that went to the service. And they weren't allowed back in to see their parents who were working there. Like the Gilhulys, they had the garage. They run the garage. And all of the town people that had businesses, if they had a boy, the boy couldn't come back, which made a lot of hard feelings. And there again, as I said, they took everything, or changed all the housing. They put many families in--they would put two families to a home if there was enough room for two bedrooms, because there was no housing for all of these thousands of people coming in. And we didn't have to share our house, but any house that had been vacated, that's how they utilized them and took down the outbuildings of any barns or sheds or things like that. They were very nice people, the ones that come in. We got to know a lot of them, being kids. It was DuPont that come and took our house. We weren't happy about that. Bauman: The families that you got to know who came, were they from all over the place? Finley: Oh, yeah, one family was from Alabama. One was from Louisiana. One was from Boston. And I can remember us kids talking and laughing. We'd laugh at them, because they talked different from us. And we talked different from them to them, too. [LAUGHTER] But they were all nice people. Bauman: And you mentioned that your father owned the island? Finley: Yes, mm-hm. Bauman: And he sold that? Finley: The government bought that. Bauman: The government bought it from him. Do you know how much money he received for that? Finley: No, it wasn’t--I don't know how much they got. First they leased it, and when they knew that it was going to be--I guess; I don't have any other reason--a longer span of time, they bought the island and turned it over to, I think, Fish and Wildlife habitat. It's still there. He was very proud of that island because there was a large Indian cemetery on it. And he guarded that with his life to keep it from being dug. And several times during the night, he'd go. If he saw a bonfire over there, he'd go down to the river and row across it and get them off the island. And also, so they wouldn't set it afire. But he guarded that cemetery with his eye teeth. Bauman: I just want to go back to the community itself a little bit again. You talked a little bit about the grange, was it? Finley: The grange, mm-hm. Bauman: And school. Were there churches that were nearby? Finley: Oh, yes. There was a Methodist church and a Presbyterian church, a Catholic church. But there was many different religions. There was Seventh Day Adventists. In 1937 I believe it was--I'm not sure about the dates, they brought--and I don't even know how many. I think there was something like 13 families of Mormons in, which was kind of sad. Because they brought them in in August, and they had no time to put wood in or gather wood or canned--only what they could bring. And it was a very long, cold winter. And they did suffer. I mean, us kids thought, oh, they must have been poor. [LAUGHTER] Because they didn't have wood. I can remember my dad going and getting a couple of the men, and we had a flume in the river, which in high water caught all the logs and everything coming down the river. And he took them down there and told him to get what wood they needed to keep from freezing. And that winter, as I said, was very, very cold. And it was a very long winter. It was just kind of unfortunate. Bauman: Were those families able to stay on? Finley: Oh, yeah. They, come the next spring, they planted their gardens like everybody else did and went to work for one of the fruit farmers. And most of them didn't leave until the government come in. They were very nice people. Bauman: The town itself, I was going to ask you, are there any--you mentioned there was a theater. Were there any businesses that you remember at the time? Finley: Oh, yeah, on one side of the street there was a barber shop and drugstore and a grocery store. And the hotel burned down. I don't know when, but in the '30s, it burned. And then there was a bank and a tavern and a little park where they had the bands and things and a post office and a tavern. They had all the good things in life. A couple of gas stations, the train depot and a creamery, or where everybody took their cream in for the Twin City Creamery to come out and get. They picked it up. And I'm trying to think what else they had--and the coal storage. The coal storage I think was the largest building there. Well, the concrete part’s still standing. They didn't take down, but all around this--or on two sides if it, because one side was next to the railroad, there was packing sheds for fruit. And Dad just filled up huge canyons with ice to ship the fruit. There was a lumber yard there. Really, it was quite complete. And Hanford was also quite complete. They each had a ferry to get back and forth across the ferry. And then there was another ferry up the river, the Wahluke Ferry, which- I'm trying to think of where their end was. I think the Wahluke ended at Burke's Corners, up above the road. And it went to Ephrata. The White Bluffs Ferry went to Othello, the road. And the Hanford Ferry went out what is now the blocks. You could get to Ringgold and all in that area. And there was a road up down the other side of the river. It went from Uncle Matt's place, you could go up to Ringgold. Bauman: I think you mentioned earlier something about a baseball team, sports, I’m wondering about, for the schools. Finley: We had baseball teams. They had I think mainly basketball. I don't remember football. But there again, I wouldn't have been interested in that. But they always had music. They had bands. All three of the towns had bands. And yeah, because somebody told me they went to White Bluffs to play baseball one time. So they must have had a team. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: When you mentioned that when your family did leave, you moved to Benton City? Finley: Yes. Bauman: And did your father have sheep and cattle there again? Finley: No, we had a milk cow for a long time, and then we finally give that up. But we kept the horses. We always had horses. All us kids rode. He did, too. He was a really good horseman. But these weren't-- mostly just us kids' horses. And he just rented pasture for those. We didn't have any land for a long time. We had a building in town and a house, but we didn't have any land. Eventually, he did buy land. And part of the kids still live there. Three of my sisters still live there. Bauman: So you all grew up, spent the rest of your years [INAUDIBLE]. Finley: Yes, we all stayed together. I'm trying think. I think Veronica is the furthest one away, and she is in Goldendale, so she didn't get too far. One lives in Pendleton. My brother went to--was it Korea or Vietnam? Must have been Korea. That was in the '50s, yeah. And when he come back, he spent his time on different islands. Thank God he didn't--he joined the Navy, and he became a mechanic, an air mechanic. And they put him on the islands. He come back, went to school, went to college, got his degree in education and went back to the South Seas and taught there until he retired. And he's just younger than I am. He bought land and built himself a house up at Chesaw when he come back, which is up by Oroville, I think, and happy as a lark. Bauman: I was wondering what you think would be important for people to know about what it was like growing up in White Bluffs? What sort of a place it was. Finley: It was warm. It was a very warm community. The people were your friends. And they helped each other. If somebody needed something, somebody would either share or give or provide for them. And they didn't do it for--just because family needed it at that time. Or if one was sick, somebody was always available to take them to the hospital, which was either Pasco or Yakima. And I think it was just-- and to be happy. The people were happy. There weren't--not too many grouchy ones that I can remember. And to do with what you have. Don't want something more if you can't afford it, I guess, in this day and age. Just be happy with what you have, and work for something better. Bauman: There's one question I meant to ask you earlier that I'll ask you now, and that is the weather in the area. I know we get high winds and dust storms. Finley: Yes, there was high— Bauman: What about growing up? Did that impact your community at all? Finley: No. The ground wasn't tore up like it is now. So we didn't have the massive--I don't remember the dust storms, let me put it that way. We did have wind. And it was very cold in the winter and very hot in the summer. I mean, it was 120 and nobody thought anything about it. Very few shade trees. So it was hot, but you could always got get a pan of water. Mom used to--the wash tubs that they had then, she'd fill one every day and put it outside and us kids played in it. And I guess we were just used to it, because it didn't seem to bother us. And cold, as I said, the school bus took us to school in the winter because it was cold, and it was a mile or a little more to school. And there was no shelter, no nothing. You just were walking on sand. That's mostly what's out there. Bauman: Yeah. Do you remember the river ever freezing over at all? Finley: I don't. I don't remember it freezing. My dad would tell about the river freezing, and that's how they brought their sheep down. They kept them on--I don't know why they took them to the mountains, either, but they took them to pasture in the summer and then wait for the water to freeze to bring them over. And they lambed and sheared before the thaw so they could get them back across the river. Otherwise they had to ferry them or drag them clear down and put them across the bridge that they had then built between Pasco and Kennewick. And that was quite dangerous, he said, because they could only run so many sheep at a time. And it took a long time to put a band of sheep across. I can remember being--we had a cow that got down the outside one time, and she froze, instead of getting in the barn where she belonged. She was a young heifer, and she just didn't know, I guess. But people prepared for it. They knew it was going to be cold. It got cold early in the year. And it stayed that way until March or April. Now, the river didn't stay froze that long. It was just cold. But it wasn't cold enough to keep that river frozen. But they took the horse and everything else across it. I mean, he remembers it. But I remember the freezing out quite far from the bank, but not freezing across where they could put animals on it. Bauman: Right. Is there anything I haven't asked you about or any family stories or special memories that stand out that-- Finley: [LAUGHTER] What kids do for entertainment? Bauman: Sure. [LAUGHTER] Finley: Yeah. [LAUGHTER] We had this real nice family down the road a ways, and they had a mule. That was one of those poor Mormons that didn't know what they were getting into. And they had two boys. And Delores and I decided one day that we would put the mule harness on a horse. We did not know that there was the difference in them. There is. So we took Dolly, the horse, and took her up on the little knoll and hooked her to this wagon. I don't know where us kids got the wagon. Somebody gave it to us. And hooked the horse. We didn't know you were supposed to have shafts or something on this to stop this wagon. Well, she went to barn with this wagon bumping her all the time in the back end. And Dad came out and was quite upset because we had knocked the door off the barn. So we went in. We took Dolly, took her back out to the pasture. And we thought, well, now we've done that, and that was because it was too steep. That hill was too steep. So Mom and Dad had to go to Yakima. And us kids stayed at home, because there was nothing, nobody there to harm us. You know? [LAUGHTER] And we left Randall, my brother. We took this cow, Dolly, and put this mule harness on her. I don't know how. [LAUGHTER] And took her up about a quarter of a mile from the place through an old cut down apple orchard. And when we waved our hands and dropped them down, Randall was supposed to sic the dog on the calf in the barn. Well, Delores didn't make it to the wagon. She put me in first, and that cow went home. When we got home, the wagon did not survive it. And Dad couldn't figure out what was wrong with old Dolly that night. She was so touchy when he went to milk her. [LAUGHTER] We didn't try that again. But there was always two of us, so if one got in trouble, we could share it. One time we took the sheep who were over still on the mainland. And he had a nasty, nasty buck, but he produced good lambs. And there again, we were warned, you don't get in that corral with that buck. Because he actually could have killed a kid, I imagine, if he’d, you know. And Delores and I figured and figured if we got two ropes on him, we could tie him to two different posts in the corral. And then we could ride him. This is a big sucker, nice long wool and everything he had. And we did. Well, finally we wore—anyway, we rode that poor, old buck ‘til he just laid down. And Dad couldn't figure out what was--his name was George-- couldn't figure out what was wrong with George that night, because he just didn't want to eat anything. We never told him until we were grown--and I guess we were both married by that time—what happened to George. Bauman: Figured it was safe to tell him then. Finley: He just looked at us and he said, well, that's probably only one of the things you done that I didn't know about, sweetheart. [LAUGHTER] But we created our own fun. And to us, it was not mean or cruel or mischievous, because we knew the cow wouldn't die. She was too ornery. And we finally broke Dolly to ride with a saddle, so that was a little safer, too. We just had fun and grew up. And I don't know what else we done. Spent 13, 14 years there. I must have done something more. We worked hard in the summer. I remember that. Because Mom had to can. She canned the fruit. If somebody butchered--it always surprised me that if somebody in the community butchered, and they had too much meat, then it was spread out. Because there was no way of keeping it. And neighbors got along well that way. Bauman: So what sorts of work or chores did you do as a young child growing up? What sorts of things did you help out with? Finley: Oh heck, I could cook a meal by the time I was in the third grade. I learned to make bread, canned. We all canned. That was a whole family project. It wasn't just one person there, because it all had to be done on a cook stove. And somebody had to bring in wood and peel fruit. It had to be continuous. And what else? I remember Mama canning meat one time--twice. And that had to be cooked for six hours. Because it was just a water bath. They didn't have pressure. Later on, I guess, there was pressure cookers. But that's how they cooked it, put it in a wash boiler. And I think it held 12 quarts, the wash boiler did. And they cooked it all day, all day long. And that stove had to be kept burning. So on that day also, if you were canning, you also made bread. Because the oven was hot. And it was busy. It was a busy time. And then in spring, they had to take care of the stock. And the fruit was a little bit earlier than what it is here. It was just like a week earlier. Of course, it ended a week earlier, too. But there was always tomatoes and Mom put up an awful lot of tomatoes and peaches. I can remember that. Bauman: So you grew a lot of your own-- Finley: Grandma Pete, my dad's mother, was a peach farmer. So they always had peaches. And she also grew a very large garden. Or they would go down to Ringgold and there was the Japanese family there that had a truck farm. You could always get your tomatoes there in quantity. Bauman: Do you remember what their name was? Finley: The name of the-- Bauman: Japanese family? Finley: No, I have no idea. We just went down there and they were wonderful gardeners. They had everything up off the ground. They planted the plants and then they put chicken wire mesh panels over it so that the tomato plant grew up through the mesh and all the tomatoes then were on the wire. They were never on the ground. I always thought that was amazing. And they had corn. They had all vegetables. I just remember the folks buying the cantaloupe and the tomatoes. But they had-- I imagine it was a good sized truck farm. It was to me then. But I don't actually how big it was. And there was always apples. And apricot trees grow wild almost, so there was always plenty of apricots and apples. There was somebody had apple trees that they couldn't use them up. And they just simply shared. They had too much, they shared. It really kind of spoiled people for today. There's a lot I can't understand about today, why people don't get along better. [LAUGHTER] But I'm trying to think what else us kids would do. We played on a pile of gravel. That was our mountain. White Bluffs was very flat. Because the bluffs surrounded the whole river. The river is on our side, but you know. And unless you went to Yakima, there's a very small opening between Rattlesnake and the Bluffs in reality, just enough for the river to flow through. It was quite flat and hot. So you could do most anything. You could swim in the irrigation ditch. Bauman: Where was the pile of gravel that you-- Finley: What? Bauman: Where was the pile of gravel that you played on? Finley: Oh, the pile of gravel? Well, I guess they were going to gravel the road. They never got it done because they just piled this big pile of gravel there across the road from us. Well, for a long time, there was a sign on it. I don't know what the sign said. But there was one on it. [LAUGHTER] But it was sloped on one side, and then you could jump off the steep side, see. Boy, oh boy, we'd run up and jump off and run up and jump off. Daddy come out and says, now you know, Joe's going to get after you for that. Well, Joe didn't see us, so I guess we thought we were safe. It's still out there today, but it isn't near as large as I thought it was. I've been out a couple of times while I worked there in the '50s. I worked out there and drove that same circuit. Bauman: What part of the site did you work at, what did you--? Finley: I worked out of 300. I delivered instruments to the areas. So I had to go to each area every day. And I've been there since then also, and the roads are still there if you know where you're going. You can get around pretty good. Now, they're not in top--some of them are still paved. Bauman: So how long did you work there, then? Finley: I worked out there two years. And then we had a family, and I didn't go back to work. Bauman: When is the last time you were out there? Finley: Oh, let's see. The White Bluffs picnic--I don't quite remember when it stopped. But every year, you could go out there if you went to the picnic. You could drive out there on one afternoon. I think it was Saturday afternoon. And you could go through town. You went through town, and down to the old ferry landing, down to Old Town. And then in later years, if you could, you could go to where your home was. If the roads were there. And I drove out a couple of times to where we lived, because we lived on the river. And the last time I went out, there was this fence and big concrete building there. I knew that's probably the last time I'd see the homestead. They had to build H. But that's all right. It was a good place to live, good place to grow up in. And you learned a lot of things that you didn't know you learned. Bauman: Well, I want to thank you very much for being willing to come here and share your stories and your memories. Finley: They've really been terrific. I will try and get some pictures. Can I just call the number on the letter and just bring them in? Bauman: Absolutely, yeah, sure. Finley: Because we have them. I just don't know where in the world I've put them. We even have one of Johnny and Daddy, Johnny Buck, the Indian, the chief. He was quite old then. But he would take his kids and tell us in Indian--my dad could speak Indian, or that dialect of Indian. And he'd talk to us in Indian. We never bothered to learn. Isn't that sad? Bauman: Did your dad know that dialect from having spent a lot of time with them? Finley: Yes, he grew up there. Johnny, as a young man, worked for his father, George, and the horses. And I don't know, but then after George died, he still come and fished, his tribe. And Dad just grew up with him. They were always part of the neighborhood. You knew they were coming when the fish started to run. And then you watched for them. They had beautiful horses, or I thought, Delores and I thought. The other thing, he had a friend. He was in Yakima. He lived in Yakima. And he would come down. And him and Daddy would visit. And us kids would listen to the stories. And one day, he turned his hands over, and they were white. And I never realized that the man was black. We had no--there was no difference in people. This man was the tallest, blackest Negro. I've seen some from Africa lately that are more recent, but he was a delightful--he was an apple grower, had a large apple orchard in Yakima. And had he not turned those hands over, I, to this day, would have swore he was just like us. And I think that is one that is very important for kids, that there is no difference in people. They're all--the Indians looked the same to me. I don't remember what this man's name was, because he did. Or my mother's parents that were strict Irish. They looked the same. There was no--we even had a Filipino family in there. He was good. He raised raspberries. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: In White Bluffs? Finley: Yeah, in White Bluffs, yeah. He raised berries. Bauman: Do you happen to remember his name at all? Finley: His name was George--I can't remember his last name. He moved to Benton City. And they still bought berries from him. Bauman: He moved to Benton City after 1943, after the government-- Finley: Yeah, mm-hm. I remember a lot of people. I mean, Mrs. Barrett, her husband was one of the first railroad men out. He worked for the Union Pacific. And they lived at Wahluke at the time of the Walla Walla massacre. And she'd tell a story. I had a lot of opportunity to learn. And she was a sweet lady. She raised three boys and a daughter. I never remember her husband, but I remember her very, very well. And Russos was another--I don't know what nationality they were, but they all seemed to have something to do with fruit. And there was just a great, big mixture of all types of people and all getting along very, very well. Bauman: Well, thank you again. I really appreciate you coming in today to share your stories and memories. Thanks very much. Finley: Well, I thank you. And I hope it turns out halfway decent. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 01:05:20 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 250 kbps Hanford Sites Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview 300 Area F Area H Area Years on Hanford Site Years on the Hanford Site, if any. 1950s Names Mentioned Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community. Bordern, Archie Borden, George Anderson, Harry Buck, Johnny Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Catherine Finley Description An account of the resource An interview with Catherine Finley conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-7-9 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-06-6: Metadata v1 created – [RG] Subject The topic of the resource Hanford (Wash.) Hanford Site (Wash.) Hanford (Wash.)--History--20th century. 300 Area DuPont F Area Fishing H Area Horseback riding White Bluffs Bank (Wash.) https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F56eeef5b00b25e194aa2a4f470d59e48.jpg 30fa2c717deffcf7d48f10470be1d34e https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fe3f2d449f0cc39c52e03d53b645abf9b.mp4 e2ee1049296d50c1767074c105fbd2ca Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pre-1943 Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Description An account of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bauman, Robert Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Sparre, Ilene Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Northwest Public Television | Sparre_Ilene Ilene Sparre: You know, I spoke on the radio once. In the first six--at 30 seconds, I goofed it up so bad I just relaxed and said I already look like a fool. And then I was really good. [LAUGHTER] They invited me back. You know, it was the first 30 seconds that was so bad. [LAUGHTER] Man One: I've had more than 30 seconds of bad radio in my time, so don't feel bad. [LAUGHTER] Woman One: 30 seconds is pretty good. Man One: That's excellent, really. Robert Bauman: That’s not bad, actually. That's very good. Man One: Anytime you're ready, I'm good. Bauman: Okay. Man One: Let's see. Your back light looks good. Man Two: Yeah. Looks fine. Man One: Okay. Man Two: Yep. Bauman: All right, we'll go ahead and get started then. So let's start by maybe first having you say your name and spell it for us. Sparre: Okay. I am Ilene Gans-Sparre. And Ilene is I-L-E-N-E, Gans--G-A-N-S-, and Sparre--S-P-A-R-R-E . Bauman: Great. All right, thank you. Today's date is August 28 of 2013. And we're conducting this interview on the campus of Washington State University Tri-Cities. So let's start by having you tell me a little bit about your family and how your family came to Richland. What brought them here and when? Sparre: Well, my father had eight children, and we had two cousins living with us and grandma. So there was 13 of us. And he bought a farm in Richland close to Benton City on the clift. And there was a little river down there which we could walk to and fish in. It also had quicksand, which we learned to stay away from. [LAUGHTER] But it was a good place for all of us children to run around in. And, of course, he thought children was money because they could work on the farm, except, he had six girls, which kind of changed that. [LAUGHTER] But he had a dairy most of his life besides the farming. We just loved it because we had not so much rain, like on the West Coast. And we had all that sagebrush to run around in. And it was just great living out there. And of course, we did what other farmers did. We saved food for winter. We canned, we froze. We had a dirt cellar. And my dad built our house. Wasn't too good at first, but it got better. [LAUGHTER] Because there wasn't any money much. But we had a great life and lots to eat. Bauman: So where did you move from? Sparre: I think he moved from Idaho. He had inherited a piece of property. His father was 66 when he was born. And he was born in Lapwai, Idaho. And his father had gotten this property, 80 acres, for being in the Civil War. And my dad inherited that. But there wasn't any money in Idaho. There wasn't a lot of food and it was very difficult. So he managed to sell that and got this piece of property in Richland. And we built everything from scratch. Bauman: And what were your parents' names? Sparre: Ellen and Jesse Gans. Bauman: And so what sort of crops did you grow on your farm? Sparre: Actually, I remember the watermelon. I remember the potatoes and filling our dirt cellar with potatoes and onions and carrots. And then before the war, we always went to Yakima and picked hops, and got fruit and brought that back and canned it. But things changed during the war. Bauman: How so? Sparre: Okay. Well, my dad, because he had so many children, they did not want him in the army. But they made him go in the National Guard. And then he worked in the dairy on the farm during the day. And he guarded it at night. So he had to do that for two years. And in fact, he got in trouble quite a bit because he kept falling asleep while he was guarding in the middle of the night after working all day. [LAUGHTER] He got threatened with court martial a couple of times because he couldn't stay awake, you know? Bauman: Where was he guarding? Sparre: Hanford Project. Bauman: Oh, okay. Sparre: They confiscated him for that and he was pretty close to it--you know, where our property was. And when they said do this, you did it. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: So on your farm, on your property, what other--did you have any other buildings? Barns? Sparre: Oh, we had lots of barns for the cows, you know. And of course, back then, there wasn't milking machines. So they had to be milked by hand. And the older brothers and sisters helped my dad with the milking before they went to school and after they got home. And we were all out there working all the time. [LAUGHTER] One of my fondest memories as a child was trying to start the car. You had to crank it. And mother was trying to start it but I was only three or four and I couldn't crank it fast enough. So my other sister put her foot in on the clutch. And I put my foot on the gas. And we sit on the floor. And when mother said let go of the clutch, and give it a little gas, but keep your foot on the brake, we did it. And we got it started. [LAUGHTER] This, you know, three and four-year-old. Bauman: [LAUGHTER] What kind of car was that? Sparre: I have no idea. But it was an old Model T. Bauman: Now, did you have electricity and telephone? Sparre: It seems like, eventually, we got electricity. But we started out with candles and kerosene lamps and outhouses. We never had an inside bathroom in those days. Bauman: And what about telephones? Sparre: Oh, no. There wasn't a telephone anywhere. Anywhere around our area, there wasn't telephones, you know? I'm sure there must have been in town. But I don't think that I remember, when I was real little, there wasn't anybody to call. [LAUGHTER] The world was different then. Bauman: Do you remember who any of your neighbors were at the time? Sparre: Well, across the field, Peterson. His last name was Peterson. And he was our neighbor and my dad's best friend, which is probably why we settled there. Why we got the opportunity to buy that property. He had the farm next door. And it was very upsetting because he did get drafted in the army and he did not come home from the war. Which was very upsetting to my father because he had lost his older brother in World War I. You know so it was very meaningful to him. Bauman: Sure. Sure. Sparre: And then somewhere around the area lived the Shipleys. Claude Shipley, who was an aunt by--I mean, an uncle, by marriage. He married my dad's older sister. And his family lived around there. But where, you know, I don't know. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: What sort of irrigation did you have for your crops? Do you know? Sparre: Well, the river was there. And somehow, my dad knew enough about old world irrigation. There was no ditches or anything, but he knew how to get the water from the river to the plants. I don't know how, but it's funny. A lot of those things were passed down from generation to generation that, nowadays, people just don't know. But he did know. Bauman: So you mentioned your father working for the National Guard at Hanford. Was your family able to stay on their land? Sparre: On our land. We were until--when they had the accident. Some radiation leaked and the cows ate the grass and got radiation. And it affected the milk. I guess it was a temporary thing. But it did affect a lot of us. It did not affect the two babies. And they were in the study that they did on the radiation because the babies had the mother's milk. But it affected all of us older ones except the one sister who was allergic to milk. She didn't have a thyroid problem, but the rest of us six did have a thyroid problem. And my dad then found out what was going on out there. He did not know. They didn't tell the people around what they were building. And so consequently, everybody was happy. And then when he found out and his two years were almost up with the National Guards, and they said you couldn't sell your property. But he sold it anyway. And we moved. And they didn't stop him. Bauman: So what time frame was this that this accident happened? Sparre: Well, this was probably 1941, '42, somewhere along— Bauman: Before the war. Sparre: When exactly the milk was contaminated was somewhere between '40 and '42. Maybe '43. You know, somewhere in that area. We moved away, I think, in February, in '43. So he was really pretty upset about that. Bauman: You mentioned that almost all of you developed thyroid problems? Sparre: Yes. Bauman: When did that-- Sparre: Well, when you went through puberty, it came out. And nobody in the family had ever had a problem. Including my mother got it. And nobody had ever had that problem before in the family, you know? So, just naturally, everybody assumed it was--and being so close to Hanford, our cows probably got more than somebody further away. But, again, I was a child and they didn't tell me these things. But I was probably called Snoopy, because I was always sitting in the kitchen behind the stove where they couldn't see me and listening to all the adult conversations around the stairs. [LAUGHTER] So I was so curious about everything and every single night, I listened to the news. Gable Heater was on and we listened to the news. We had the blackouts. We had to make sure. And since Daddy found out, we made sure there wasn't a speck of light anywhere around our farmhouse. So it was quite a different world. Bauman: So you had a radio and that's how-- Sparre: We did have radio. So we probably had electricity by that time. And since Hanford had electricity, they probably came out and put it in the places around. Bauman: So about how old were you then when you moved away? Sparre: When I moved away? Six. When the people starting to build Hanford came in, our little town of a couple hundred people suddenly became a quite big town of city people who were not always good like farmers. And they just invaded everything and there was a lot more crime suddenly. And the streets were crowded. And going to school, they had two sets of classes, early morning classes. And then you had to take all your books and everything and move all your stuff away because somebody else was going to use your desk in the afternoon. And I went to kindergarten but they put me in a year early because I was a pain to my mother. [LAUGHTER] I just was this little kid that thought I knew everything. I was not a good little kid. Anyway, she took me down to school when I was four and put me in kindergarten. [LAUGHTER] And they took me. Then when I went to first grade, there wasn't enough room in the classroom to have a desk, so they put a bunch of us good kids at a big table. Two sets of classes. There were so many people. Bauman: So it was first grade when you started to see the growth in the number of students because of Hanford site? Sparre: Well, I think more like in kindergarten; that was really there. Except most people didn't send their kids to kindergarten. You didn't have to. And most people didn't bother. And they were moving and all that. But my brothers and sisters didn't go to kindergarten. But she sent me to get rid of me. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: What other memories do you have of the school? Do you remember any teachers? Sparre: Well, yeah. I remember--I was a teacher's pet, of course. [LAUGHTER] I do remember that. I do remember a note she sent home, could you try to teach Ilene to be a little neater? [LAUGHTER] But the teachers were overworked because they had to teach two full classrooms. I mean, it all happened so suddenly. And our little town didn't have that many teachers and there weren't that many. And the workers from Hanford came in, but of course, they didn't send teachers. They just--they didn't really--I don't know if they really realized how little we were--the little town was. We didn't have but a little co-op where we could get flour and sugar, you know, the basic staples, along with the cow food and the grain and things that we needed on the farm. And then suddenly, there wasn't enough food and they had to go bring in food from other towns and set up another store. And they were building, but there wasn't enough builders. And it was total confusion. And before Hanford came in, we knew everybody in town. But suddenly, Daddy didn't want to go shopping there anymore. He went to Prosser. It was equal distance to Prosser or Kennewick, so he just went to Prosser. Bauman: I know you were very young, but do you remember any of the businesses or stores that were in Richland? Sparre: Well, I remember where we got the food for the cattle and the flour. And my parents went to town only once a week and that was on Saturday afternoon. And just once a week. And then we started going to Prosser to get food. But outside of that, I don't think there was a library. There was a school. I think there was a post office, but it was all so little. Little tiny town. And there was a gas station. But I remember our church, that one Sunday it was closed because Hanford took over our church property. And so the next Sunday, the pastor spoke on the radio. And I recognized that voice. And it was the first time I'd ever heard a sermon--listened in church, really. And that's the day I accepted Jesus as my Savior. Because I listened, you know. And when he talked about being a sinner and needing to be saved from sin, I was such a bad little girl. I knew I needed a Savior. [LAUGHTER] So I did. Bauman: So what church was that? Sparre: That was the Assembly of God. He spoke on the radio and how we could get another property and build another church. But it was just, like, they didn't give us any choices, just was closed sign. And they didn't give us time or anything. It's just, okay, it's shut. But then everybody knew it was war and you did what--we all cooperated because we knew what was going on. Bauman: Do you remember any special events when you were growing up? Picnics or-- Sparre: Well, yes. I remember there was always--in Richland Park, every summer, there was a story hour, where they told stories, and there was a picnic, and there was a little wading pool and we got to go swimming in the water. Of course, I was little. There was a little bathroom there. And one memory I have is I was only three or four, maybe not even four. But I went to the bathroom by myself and I looked for--oh I remembered how to spell woman. And the last three letters were M-E-N, and so I went in the men's. And there were men in there. I came out real fast! [LAUGHTER] And I said, this is supposed to be the women's. And the man said it to me, it says M-E-N. Women is W-O-M-E-N. Always look for W-O. Okay. So I found it. [LAUGHTER] I guess that's one of my memories of being at the park--in the Richland Park down there. And they had some kind of event down there every year when we took a picnic--that was before the war. And, again, Daddy didn't cooperate much with the town or the people after the war because there was so many people, and farmers kind of like [LAUGHTER] small crowds. Bauman: Do you know if your father or mother belonged to any organizations in the community? The Grange or anything like that? Sparre: No, we always went to the fairs. But we went to a church. That was the only time we were anywhere was church. Or if there was some reason the community was getting together for some cause or something. And then they'd notify people and we'd have a potluck and get together. I think they had some Richland Day--something once a year that they did that with. And people were sick or needed help, people would get together and do things. I do remember that. And outside of that, I don't remember much, except my dad used to play the fiddle and the violin and the banjo. So people came and, at least once a month, they played music all evening. I do remember that. But, you know, there weren't very many people in those days. [LAUGHTER] And everybody was coming from a long way. I mean, we didn't have a tractor. Nobody had a tractor around, anywhere around. You plowed with the horses, you know? The world was really different in the 1930s and early '40s. Bauman: Did you have any specific chores as a little girl on the farm? Sparre: Well, yes. We had to feed the calves--the baby calves. There was always, on a dairy, there's always baby calves. And we would make pets of them, and of course, every time they were slaughtered, we'd cry. [LAUGHTER] Because those were our pets. But we had to feed the baby ones. I was little, but still, I had to feed them whenever there was work to be done, you know? I mean, we had to participate. When I was little, I had to pick--I was only five, and I had to pick a box of cherries in the morning and a box of cherries in the afternoon. I was only five, you know? [LAUGHTER] And I didn't get my box in the afternoon finished, so my dad and everybody sat down under the tree and wouldn't go home till I finished my box. Ever after that, I worked first, played later. I mean, it's just amazing. Now, they don't want kids to work. But it was one of the best gifts our father gave us--was the ability to work and know that was a part of living. And he made it so much fun, you know? He participated with us. And I have a memory of a truckload of food coming--because we're such a big family--that during the war, they came to our house and dropped off four or five boxes of food. And my dad said no. And he picked up the boxes and put them back on the truck and said, we do not take handouts. We take care of our own. Give this to somebody who needs it. And even though we looked at those oranges and thought, whoa, that's nice. But that was a wonderful gift he gave us, because none of us were on welfare. And a big family, we all got an education. We all went to school. We took care of ourselves because he gave us the gift that we worked. We help others, but we don't need the help ourselves. Bauman: So you mentioned--you talked about how this small little town changed quite a bit, obviously. Do you remember when you or your family first found out that something was going to be built not too far from your property? Sparre: Well, my dad came home from town and he says there's rumble, you know? And, of course, he always listened to the radio in the morning and at noon and in the evening--with the news. And of course, we knew about Pearl Harbor. And we knew about the war before then, except we weren't involved. And then suddenly, we were involved. And then the government army and everything--trucks--started rumbling into town. And he knew it was something about that. And almost immediately, they came by and enlisted him in the National Guard, whether he wanted to or not. He was in. But you couldn't object because there was war. And then, of course, they started rationing the food. But we didn't have a problem because we were on the farm. We had our meat, our vegetables, our fruit. And the only thing we didn't have was sugar. Mother canned the fruit without sugar and then we each got like a 1/4 of a cup of sugar a month to last us. And if we used it all at once--and we hid it because my dad liked sugar in his coffee and he'd take a pinch out of each one so we wouldn't miss it. So we worked hard hiding our sugar. [LAUGHTER] And the first thing, I remembered getting up in the morning to go see if my sugar was still hid. [LAUGHTER] It was the consequences of war! Bauman: So you did not have to move initially with the construction of Hanford? Sparre: No. No, because we were out in the country. But we weren't far from Hanford, you know? Bauman: Right. And then you did move. Where did you move to? Sparre: Sunnyside. Daddy had studied the issue, and it was a consensus of opinions that if there was a fallout from Hanford, it would not reach Sunnyside. So it sounded like a good place to move to. And it was good farmland. He got a place in Sunnyside. Bauman: Are there any other things--memories you have of the community of Richland or growing up on the farm that we haven't talked about yet? Sparre: Well, it's hard. I can still see the school for a little school--very little school--and coming into town. Bauman: Where was this school? Sparre: Well, as you came into town, it was right up the hill. First thing you saw was the school. Wasn't very many students. Very little school. And of course, there were the Tri-Cities. The other towns were a little bit bigger, but Richland was always pretty small. It was a farm town. Bauman: Do you remember any of your classmates, any of your friends at school? Sparre: Well, I remember the Peterson boy next door. But after the war, he moved. The widow and her son moved. And that's all I remember of that. Mrs. Cherry was my teacher. I remember that because it sounded like cherry. [LAUGHTER] I'm sure it wasn't quite cherry, but that was as close as I got to it--the name. Bauman: And did you walk to school? Did you take a bus? Sparre: Oh, no. We took a bus. We took a bus. Yeah. Bauman: And was this a regular school bus? Sparre: It was a regular school bus. I can't remember that it was very big. But it was probably a smaller big school bus, you know. And it came on the--right down here was the canal. And then there was the highway. And down here was our property, which I remembered it being a mile down there, but it was, like, half a block. [LAUGHTER] But when you're four and you're walking up there to go to school, it was a long walk. I remember one day playing in the canal and mother told us not to because the water was coming in. And my brother, who was six years older, he suddenly grabbed us and, get out of there, get out of there, the water's coming! And it came in just as we got out of the canal. [LAUGHTER] I do remember that. But didn't seem like it was a long bus ride. And it doesn't seem like the bus was full. Bauman: I know, again, that you were young still when you moved away, but, overall, what your thoughts about growing up in Richland, in that small town? Sparre: Well, we loved where we were. I mean, down there in the water, my brothers built a raft and had a pole. And we went all around and fished and played in there. But there was quicksand there. And one day, Daddy's prize cow got caught in the quicksand and all the neighbors came. But before they could pull it out, it drowned. Think of us kids playing down there. [LAUGHTER] But we knew where the quicksand was so we didn't go over there. And my dad was an old-fashioned man. He was a very, very good. He never lost his temper. But if he said something and you disobeyed, he did have a razor strap. And he knew how to use it. But you didn't get beat on because you didn't get spanked more than once. That was it, which was very good. Reminds me of the verse in the Bible that says, children--fathers, don't make your children angry. Go ahead and spank them if they need it. [LAUGHTER] And that's a pretty good thing. Just to do it and get it good enough and then you won't have to do it again. And that's what my father did. So we just obeyed him. And then he was so kind, very kind. So we had a great home life, you know? And he played music. And as we grew up, all of us had to play instruments. And can you imagine? He made us practice an hour a day. And all of us played different instruments. It's bad enough listening to my girls practice the piano. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: And what instrument did you play? Sparre: What? I played the oboe and the clarinet and the piano. Except, I really don't make music. I'm really not musical. But I played because that's what we did in our house, you know? But we had so much fun growing up in Richland. It was not that much fun in Sunnyside, because we were pretty close to town. There were people all around. And they had rules and regulations that we weren't accustomed to. Mother put us in pants and shorts to play in in Richland, and the town people in Sunnyside objected to that. [LAUGHTER] So we couldn't wear them! [LAUGHTER] I mean, it was just so different than living out in the country. Mother always had Sunday dinner and people were always over Richland. I don't remember if there were always relatives but it seems like a lot of them were friends and who they were, I don't remember. Bauman: Your father sold your farm. Is that farm still operational today? Sparre: Well, there's a nice house down there, you know, but what’s on it--there's quite a few houses down in that section. We walked to the back of the farm and we could fish in the--I think it was the Yakima River. And I remember catching a fish there when I was probably five. I was the only one that caught a fish that day. I remember that. [LAUGHTER] But there were so many things to do and to be inventive and play, which was really good for us. But it was just different when we moved where there were people. Bauman: Do you know if your parents felt similarly about leaving Richland, if they were sort of disappointed that they had-- Sparre: Well, they both really wanted out. Mother knew that my father couldn't continue to guard and run a dairy. It couldn't continue to do that. He was exhausted. And yet that didn't seem to register. They didn't care. I'm sure it wasn't that they didn't care, but I'm sure the army officers had their own way of thinking and there was a crisis. It was just really hard. And so they were both very thankful to move. Bauman: Well, I think I've asked all the questions I have. Do you have anything else you want to add? Sparre: You know, I'd take a look at my list and I probably have mentioned--oh, this is the wrong one. But I think I pretty much covered everything that I can think of. Bauman: Great. Well, I want to thank you very much for coming in today, Ilene. Appreciate it. Sparre: Yeah, I wish I could remember more. [LAUGHTER] I think it's neat that you're doing this. And thank you for asking me. Bauman: Well, thanks for coming in. Appreciate it. Location The location of the interview Washington State University - Tri Cities Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:38:47 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 211 kbps Names Mentioned Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community. Gans, Jesse & Ellen Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Ilene Sparre Description An account of the resource An interview with Ilene Sparre conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Subject The topic of the resource Hanford (Wash.) Richland (Wash.) Richland (Wash.). Public Schools Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-8-28 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-06-29: Metadata v1 created – [RG] Housing Richland (Wash.) https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fcaf0d30b7578031192df95ac3f19d628.jpg bef66851539f406753cf08c67a310697 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fb3c7022b7fab9e8825442d1b24d584f1.mp4 46c1103abffb62422a577d5674a3d32e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pre-1943 Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Description An account of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bauman, Robert Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Johnson, Norman Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Northwest Public Television | Johnson_Norman Robert Bauman: All right, is that all right? Camera man: Yeah. Bauman: Okay. All right, we can go ahead and get started. Norman Johnson: Okay. Bauman: And if we could start first by maybe having you say your name and spell your name for us? Johnson: It's Norman Neil Johnson. J-O-H-N-S-O-N. Bauman: Great. And my name's Robert Bauman. We're conducting this oral history interview on November 5 of 2013. And we're doing this interview on the campus of Washington University Tri-Cities. So let's start maybe by having you talk about your family, first, and what you know about when they came to the area here. Johnson: My grandparents--I can remember my grandpa telling me--he came out here in 1910 and bought land. And then he moved back to Idaho. He was working in the sawmills in Idaho. And then he come back in 1918 and brought my grandmother and my aunt and my mother back. And they started farming in 1918. Bauman: And his name was? Johnson: Pete Hanson. Bauman: Pete Hanson. Do you know why this area, why Richland? What brought him here? Just the availability of land? Johnson: I know he had a brother that owned the farm. And they bought the farm right next to him. And then his brother died before I was born. His oldest daughter was who farmed it after I was born. I don't know why they came here. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: [LAUGHTER] And how old would your mother have been in 1918 when they-- Johnson: Four years old. Bauman: Four years old. So she grew up here. Johnson: Yeah, I was one in Lady Lourdes Hospital in Pasco in 1936. The only hospital here. Bauman: Okay. And what about your father, then? Johnson: I think he was from Republic, Washington. Somewhere over there, because--I was so young when he died, that I never really knew much about him. And I didn't think to ask his brothers or sisters about him. Bauman: But did he live in the area too, you and is that how your parents met? Johnson: Yeah, mm-hm, yep. He had an older sister that lived here, too. Their name was Perkins. There was quite a few of them. Bauman: Mm-hm. And you were born in what year? Johnson: 1936. Bauman: 1936. And your family had a farm? Johnson: Yes. Bauman: And what sort of crops? Johnson: All I can remember is asparagus and strawberries and alfalfa for their livestock. That's all I can remember. I don’t know, my grandpa said that the only people that made any money out their farming and amount to anything was the ones that had orchards. And asked him how come he didn't plant trees, and he said he couldn't afford to buy any. So I guess he never made a lot of money. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: And do you know about how large the farm was? Johnson: He had 17 acres and then he farmed my mother's 10 acres, so he had 27 acres all together. Bauman: And do you remember any other buildings on the property? A barn, storage buildings? Johnson: Yeah, we had--there was a storage building right behind our house. It was maybe 40 feet from the rear of our house. We always called it the other house, and I think it had been actually a residence of somebody's at one time. But I don't know when. Bauman: Okay. And do you know roughly where the farm was? Johnson: As I recall it was about five miles from downtown Richland. And it must have been at least a mile off from the river. Bauman: And did you have electricity on the farm? Johnson: We got electricity just before I was born, but my cousins that live next to us they never did. They didn't get electricity. But we had it just before I was born, I guess. Bauman: What about telephone? Johnson: Nope. No, we didn't have any of that. Bauman: And how about irrigation? Johnson: We had irrigation water, yes. Bauman: Do you know how that was--what sort of-- Johnson: It's real irrigated, is what they did. They had a concrete pipe that run at the head of the field. And it had little holes in it. And then they had cedar plugs that they put in it. And when they wanted the water rail, they took that plug out, and away it went. Bauman: Do you remember who your nearest neighbors were? Johnson: Well the Brewers were the closest. They was the ones that was my mother's cousin. Bauman: So what do you remember about the area from the time you were growing up here? Johnson: Not a whole lot. I remember a few things. I remember when they shut our water off. They shut all our irrigation water off. The government did. And so we couldn't irrigate anything, so my grandfather went to work. As I recall it was up in big Pasco for somebody--when they were building the warehouses over there. And just me and my grandmother there. And my mother working at the post office. The government brought some prisoner of war out there, and just left them. Know what they did, they had them doing something out there. I remember my grandmother was really worried about the Italians, is what they were. And that would have been in like '43 or '44. Something like that. Bauman: Okay. So did you go to school in Richland? Johnson: I went to the first and second grade. First grade we went all day. But the second grade, the population had grown so much that we had two shifts, and I had the afternoon shift. And that was only time I went to school in Richland, was the first and second grade. Bauman: Okay. So was second grade like 1943, '44, or something? Johnson: Yeah, it must have been the '43, '44 year, yeah. Bauman: Do you remember anything about the school itself? The building or any of the teachers? Johnson: Yeah, seemed like it was over there where Lewis and Clark is now, I think. It was the only school there. Seems to me like it was a long building on one end, as you started at--it would've been the north end--the first grades, and then as you walked farther the other away the grades went up. I don't know how far they went. It might have been high school on the other end. I don't know. But I know I had cousins that went on the other end, and they were like five and seven years older than me. And they went up in the other end of the building. Bauman: And how did you get to school? Was there a school bus? Johnson: Yeah, a school bus. Bauman: Was it a fairly standard sort of the school bus? Or what would you think of the school bus now? Johnson: Well, probably not as good school buses now, I don't imagine. No, no, nothing like that. But I don't remember what they were like. Bauman: Okay. So you went there, you said first and second grade. And what happened then, after second grade? Johnson: Well that was when my grandfather was building a house in his spare time over in Kennewick--500 block on Rainier. And when he got it done, that summer of '44 we moved over there. I think that we went back to the farm one time, just to look at it. And remember my grandfather telling me he wanted to buy the building, the house, and move it to Kennewick, and they wouldn't sell it to him. He was not happy about that, either. What they did with it, I don't know. Bauman: So you were able to stay in the house into 1944? Johnson: Yeah. Bauman: But then you had to leave? Johnson: Well, we did. I don't know if they were actually forced to leave at that time. But we did. When my grandfather got the house finished in Kennewick, we moved over there. Bauman: And do you remember when the government started sort of moving in? Do you have memories from that period? Johnson: At the time before they moved in my mother was working for the irrigation department, for Mr. Fletcher, I think he run the irrigation department. And she said they had heard something was going on-- something was going to come here, and they didn't know what. And I imagine that would have been in probably '41 or '42. And of course that job went away when they shut the water off, so she went to work for the postal department in Richland. Bauman: Oh, okay. But you don't know if your mother or grandparents ever got a notice saying you have to leave by a certain time? Johnson: I think did, yeah. I don't know if they ever said right out that you had to leave at a certain time. But they were condemning our property, is what they called it. They were all farms. They shut the water off, there was no reason to stay there anymore. Because it's pretty arid out there. Bauman: Do you have any memories of the--I know you lived outside of town itself, but did you go down very often? Do you have any memories of the town itself? Johnson: Yeah, I used to go in with my grandfather and get groceries. And he had a '36 Ford pickup, and he'd let me sit on his lap and steer. I was about five years old, I guess. I can remember him going--there was one tavern there. I can remember him going in there, and I could go in with him, but I had to sit way in the back. They had a bench back there in the back, and I sat back there and waited for him. And we'd go to get groceries at John Dam's Grocery Store. He had a partner, too, but I don't remember what his name was. That's about all I can remember about the downtown. Bauman: Do you remember any other institutions, any other churches or anything along those lines? Johnson: No, I don't. Bauman: Okay. How about any community events? Do you remember any special occasion? Johnson: The only thing I can remember is, they used to have--farmers have something called a chivaree. And I don't know if all that was when people were getting married or something of that nature, I guess. That's all I can remember about that. Wasn't too lively around here, then. Bauman: [LAUGHTER] So can you tell me a little more about your family then? And you said in 1944 then, your grandfather bought a place in Kennewick Johnson: Yeah. There was a guy named--another Richland farmer--his last name was Murray. One of them was Brainerd and the other one was Audemar. No, Brainerd and I can't remember the other one. But I don't know if Brainerd was the son or the father. But they bought about, oh, all the way from Fourth Avenue up in Kennewick up to about what would have been Seventh Avenue right now. He bought that whole thing. And people from Richland started buying. I know there was--the Ericksons bought land there, and the Northings bought land there, the Samses bought land there. And there might have been a couple more, but there was a lot of Richland people bought five and ten acres. I know my grandpa bought five. And the bottom part of his went halfway from Rainier halfway to Vancouver—no, Olympia, through Olympia. And then John Erickson bought the land. And then just south of us the Northings bought the next whole ten acres there. Oh, there was quite a few Richland people there. Bauman: I want to ask then, growing up you said there wasn't a whole lot going on in Richland. Johnson: [LAUGHTER] No, not that I knew of. Bauman: [LAUGHTER] Yeah, as a young child, obviously. What sorts of things did you do for fun or for entertainment? Did you go swimming in the river, or did you do hunting, fishing sorts of things? Johnson: Well, when I was little, we get a little irrigation ditch that run through our place. We called it the lateral, come off the big ditch. And it was probably maybe a foot and a half deep. Me and my cousin used to go play in that all time. I was interested in rocks, and my grandma used to take me out there in the desert and we'd hunt for pretty rocks. And there was an awful lot of sand. I remember, when the wind would blow there you didn't have dust storms you have sandstorms. And that hurt when we were out in that. In fact, a lot of our cars got the windows pitted from the sand. I can remember big sand dunes out there. And I used to go out there with my cousins once in a while. Like I say, there wasn't a whole lot going on. I was too young to do any sports or anything. I can remember my cousin that was seven years older than me. Brewer, Max Brewer. He'd go hunting out there. And one exciting thing I remember, he was hunting with Verne McGan, I think it was. And his gun went off and hit Verne in the shoulder. That was a big, exciting thing. [LAUGHTER] It was a .22 so it didn't do a whole lot of damage. But still, pretty exciting. Oh, and I remember one thing, too. After the Navy put that base in Pasco, they had those trainers. Planes, training pilots, they were yellow, and they were double-wing--one over the top of the other. And they had two open cockpits in them, is what they were. And they used to come down so low that my dog would get up on a haystack and bark at them, they'd come in so low. And two of them crashed out there between us and Brewers’ one time. One of them crashed, and the other one tried to land in the sagebrush. And he couldn’t land one of those in the sagebrush, so. There's parts all over out there. And I heard some of the farmer used to shoot at them with shotguns. They'd come down so low they'd go underneath the telephone wires. Bauman: Wow. Johnson: So it's just a bunch of young guys learning to fly. But they were over there all the time. Bauman: So did that start like in '42 or '43? Johnson: '43 probably. Bauman: Did you ever talk with your mom or your grandparents later about leaving, and what their perspective was on that? Johnson: Well, they weren't real happy about it, like I said. Most of the farmers were really unhappy about it. My grandfather, he was from Norway, so he just thought that was the way things went. He went to work for some company who was building Big Pasco over there. And then in 1947, he went to work for DuPont. And I think he only worked for DuPont for about six months, then DuPont left and General Electric took over. And he thought that was great. Best job he ever had, he said. He was a teamster. He drove from central stores to 300 Area. He delivered the things that were ordered for the 300 Area from central stores. Bauman: Do you know how long he did that? Johnson: Until he retired. In those days, when you turn 65, you could work until the end of that month, and then you couldn't work there any longer. So he retired in '53, October of '53. He was not happy about that, either. He didn't want to retire. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: Did anyone else from your family work at Hanford at all? Johnson: Yeah. My mother's cousin's husband, Lawrence Brewer, worked out there. And let's see, who else did? Must be somebody else, but I can't remember who they are. Oh, yeah, they were neighbors, I remember some neighbors that worked out there. And I think you said you talked to one of them. Gordon Kaas, or Norman Kaas. Bauman: Gordon Kaas. Johnson: Yeah, he worked out there. I don't think Norman did. Bauman: Right, Gordon did. That's right. You said your grandfather enjoyed the job working out there, right? Did it seem strange at all, working at the place where you used to have a farm? Johnson: No, not to him. He thought General Electric was a fabulous place to work. Because he was from Norway and he'd worked in real hard jobs. Sawmill, and stuff like that. This is just driving a truck from central stores to 300 Area, and he thought it was great. Bauman: Now have you or any of your family members had a chance to go back at some point later and see the place at all? Johnson: Our place? Bauman: Yeah. Johnson: No. Well, my sister's oldest daughter got to go out there to our old farm one time. I talked to her the other day and said I'd like to go out there. And she said she’d try and get ahold of somebody. But I don't think she has. But they never lived out there. I'm the only one left alive in our family that lived out there on either one of those farms. My cousin just died, last summer. She was five years older than me. So here and I were the last ones, and it's just me now. Bauman: And who was your cousin? Johnson: Donna Bowder. And they lived over there up in Meadow Springs. Bauman: Why do you think it's important for us to do this sort of thing? For us to get the stories of people who used live-- Johnson: Anything history is worth keeping, I think. We shouldn't lose our history on anything, I don't think. There should be a lot of people left, descendants of the people that came out here. I'm sure they would like to know what their grandparents did. I think it's very interesting, really. Bauman: Were there any special memories that you have from--and I know you were very young when you moved away to Kennewick--Were there any special memories you have from the time you did live on the farm in Richland that sort of stand out to you that you haven't mentioned yet? Johnson: Well, I can remember my cousin, the one that just died, her and I used to have to pick a row of strawberries. And then my grandma would let us go play in the irrigation ditch. And that was a big deal for me. Let's see, I was about five years old at that point. Bauman: That was your reward? Johnson: Yeah. [LAUGHTER] Yeah, yeah. Bauman: I was going to ask you, did you have any certain chores or things that you had to do to help out? Johnson: Yeah, I had a little car, a pedal car, but it was pretty hard to pedal in the sand. [LAUGHTER] And I can remember having electric trains, like that. One thing I remember about the house was the front room was real long. In those days we didn't have carpet, we had linoleum. And I had a little dog, a fox terrier, and I'd throw that ball in that front room, and he'd just chase it, and he'd just spin. And then he couldn't stop and he'd smack right into the wall. [LAUGHTER] So I had a lot of fun with that. Bauman: [LAUGHTER] Yeah. I guess the dog kept doing it, so he must have been having fun too. Johnson: Oh, he did. Bauman: Anything else that I haven’t asked you about? Or anything else that sort of stands out, either your own memory, or maybe if you have any stories that your mother told or your grandparents told you. Bauman: Yeah, my grandpa used to tell me stories all time. He said they used to have down in the Columbia River—of course was it was a lot swifter than it is now because the McNary Dam wasn’t there. They had what they called a boom out there. It was a big log that was long, that was out there and it would catch all the driftwood. And they'd go down there for firewood, I guess is what they’d use it for. And he said he went down one time and they were netting salmon. And he said he come back with a whole backseat full of salmon in his old car. And he said they use to catch sturgeon down there about 12 feet long. And they'd hook the line onto a team of horses and drag them out of the river. That's a big fish. 12 feet long sturgeon. Bauman: Yeah. Johnson: That's about all, he never said too much about anything, he just farmed, that's all he did. Never had no hobbies or anything, just farm. Bauman: Mm-hm. So if someone was to ask you what it was like growing up, at least part of your youth in Richland, what the town was like-- Johnson: Very small. Very small. Wasn't nothing there, really. And I've had people say, tell me, well I didn't think there was a Richland before the Hanford project. And I said, sure was, because I lived there. I don't know if they believe me or not. I can remember going to town with my grandfather. And I remember when the strawberries would come on, I used to eat until I'd get sick. Things like, I remember one time--my mother used to take me to the movies on Sundays. And we'd go over to Pasco, the Liberty Theater in Pasco. There was only two theaters here, the Roxy Theater in Kennewick and the Liberty Theater in Pasco. And we went to the Liberty Theater one time--that was before the government come in--and it was on a Sunday and we come home, and there was--They were picking feathers out of ducks. And there my cousin, Max Brewer, he'd went up was hunting and he'd run into a bunch of ducks that were sitting on what little water was left in the irrigation ditch. And he shot into the bunch of them, got about 12 of them with one shot. So we were smelling pretty bad in there. Duck feathers, when they get wet, smell a little bad. [LAUGHTER] That's one of the things I remember. Kind of stands out in my memory. But I lose a lot from being that young. I forget a lot of things that happened. It was nice living on a farm. Really, when I was a kid. I don't know if I would have liked it when I got to be a teenager or not. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: So have you sort of stayed in the area then, most of your life? Johnson: Yeah, yup. Bauman: Moved to Kennewick. Johnson: I went to work for General Electric when I was 18. 1955. And retired from Westinghouse in '94. Worked for four different companies there while I was working. Bauman: And so when you start working for GE, what sort of work were you doing? Johnson: I was only--when I was 18, you couldn't really get too much. The job I was working in a printing shop in the 700 Area. And then later I got a job with the Richland Fire Department for two years. At that No. 1 station on George Washington Way. And then when the city took over in '59, I thought I'd be better off staying with General Electric than the city. So I got a job as an operator out at 100-D Area. And I worked there until they shut DR down, which is the other reactor at D Area. And they sent me to H Area, and I worked there until they shut it down. And I worked-- then they sent me to F Area. And I worked there until they shut it down. Then there was an old powerhouse in town that supplied steam to the Desert Inn and all the schools and everything. And I worked in there until the Federal Building was built, then they shut off all the steam. Then I got laid off from General Electric, and it was just awful. They were leaving then. They left, and then the only thing here that was General Electric was N Area for a while. And a company called Douglas United Nuclear come in and took over the 100 Areas. And I had been off work about three weeks, and they called me up and wanted to know if I wanted to come work for them, which I did. So I went out to B Area. Bauman: B Area, is that what you said? Johnson: B Area. Bauman: Okay. Johnson: And then I come into town and I worked in the 300 Area. And then when they shut B Area down, I put in an application--I was down low on the seniority list--so I put in an application in with Battelle. And they offered me a job in I think it was June of '67. So I quit United Nuclear to work with Battelle. And then when Battelle--Westinghouse came in in 1970. The building I was working in, and my manager was going through Westinghouse so I had a choice, I went to Westinghouse too. And I worked for them from 1970 to '94. In the 300 Area. Bauman: Wow. Hm. So altogether almost 30 years. Johnson: I was there 39. A little over 39 years. Bauman: Right, right almost 40 years, right. So you worked at D Reactor, you said? Johnson: I worked in water department. Bauman: Oh, the water department, okay. And so what sorts of jobs or tasks did you have there? Johnson: Well, there was a lot of jobs in pump rooms. I worked on the filter plant. And what we did, we pumped the water out of the river and up to the 183 building, which was a filter plant. And then we treated it with some stuff that I can't remember the names of. And then we filtered it and sent it down to 190 buildings, which had all the--They had eight synchronous electric pumps in there. And they'd pump the water from there through the reactor to cool the reactor. Now remember I was on just shift work with 22 operators on each shift at that point. And then there was a few on day shift to relieve people. A lot of people out there then. The department I was in had over 500 employees when I went to work. The Power Department, they'd call it. And when I retired it was about 150 of us, I think. Bauman: Wow. I assume you needed to have security clearance of some sort? Johnson: Yeah, I had Q clearance most of the time, yes. Bauman: Were you ever working in jobs where you had to wear special protective equipment for the possibility of exposure or radiation? Johnson: Yeah, the last 15 years out there I went to what they called air balance. We did in-place testing of the heat for filters that filtered the air before it was released to the atmosphere. And I got into some pretty hot things a few times. Changed the set of filters in the 324 Building one time, and it was 350R. They were doing some work in one of the cells for the German government. And they got real crapped out. Bauman: Hm. Roughly what time period would this have been? Johnson: That would have been in probably '86. Probably something like that. Bauman: Oh, okay, okay. And so you have to have dosimeter? Something along those lines? Johnson: Yeah. We had to have rings on for it. And I had two dosimeters, one in each front pocket. Had two pair of coveralls on, and shoe covers, and then boots over that. Then you had a skull cap on and a hood over that. And then you had assault mask that covered your whole face. You had two pair of gloves--you put surgical gloves on and then canner gloves on. And these were all taped to your outer pair of coveralls. And then they went around and taped everything that was showing. So there was no skin showing. Bauman: Mm-hm. So, like, how long of a period of time could you do that work before you had to come out in terms of-- Johnson: You mean for exposure? Bauman: Exposure, yeah. Johnson: I never was in there where I had to come out for overexposure. They tried to keep it as low as you could get. And so it wasn't that bad. The only time that there was ever any much exposure was when we were testing some of the filters. Some of them would have hot places. Or when we were changing filters. They had the millwrights or the fitters come in and change them, and we had to be there to test them. And that was the only real hot thing I was around. One time I remember in 325 Building, we were in a hot room in the basement. And we had to take these caps off of the duct-work to inject the smoke in there. And when the guy was taking it off, it just all of a sudden, it felt like it was heavy. It fell down and this, it looked like gunpowder, went all over everything. So we spent a whole day in the whole-body counter downtown after that. So that wasn't no fun. [LAUGHTER] But nobody got anything. I didn't get anything. They just wanted to make sure that we didn't get anything. Because that stuff that come out was pretty hot, I guess. Bauman: I imagine safety pretty strongly emphasize at Hanford, in terms of procedures? Johnson: Oh, yeah. Especially got, towards the end that I was there, procedure compliance was the main thing. If you didn't follow procedures, some people lost their jobs because of that. And I remember one time, I usually run the machine that detected how bad the filters were leaking, and we got some new ones in. The old ones had just push buttons on them, and the new ones had toggle switches. And we were going to do a job one time, and they had only wrote a procedure for one of them. The push buttons, not the toggle switches. So we had to quit. We couldn't finish the job. Which I thought was really stupid. What difference does it make whether you push a button or flip a toggle switch? But they had to write another procedure for it. So that got kind of irritating. It was hard to get used to that. Where you used to go in there and get a job done, and after the procedure compliance came along, couldn't do that. Took three times as long to do a job. Bauman: Obviously when you started in 1955, focus was on production, and by the time you retired, definitely the focus was on cleanup. I wonder if that shift, how you saw that, impacted your work, maybe? Johnson: We lost a lot of work on the job that I had, the air balance job. Some of our main buildings, not just the 300. We took the 300 Area and 400 Area. And the 300 Area in 1987, I think it was, we transferred a lot of our buildings to Battelle, for some reason. I don't know what the reason was for that. And so we lost our job. Well, didn't get as much radiation exposure after that. They work-ordered me to Battelle for a while. And Battelle wanted to keep on doing that, and Westinghouse wouldn’t let them do it. But I had a chance--I could have transferred from Westinghouse to Battelle when they did that. If I had been 10 years younger, I probably would have done it. But I was up around 50 years old then. So that was the biggest change we had. And then the problem was, these buildings were scheduled to be tore down in the 300 Area. And if we would suggest that they do something, they'd say, no, we're not going to spend that kind of money on this building because we're going to tear it down in a couple years. It got kind of frustrating. I was glad to get out of there then. Things were changing, and I was too old to change with it. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: President Kennedy visited the site in '63 to, I believe, the N Reactor. Were you here? Did you happen to be on site at the day? Johnson: I was here, but I was working graveyard, and I didn't feel like staying up that long to go see him. Bauman: [LAUGHTER] That make sense. Johnson: [LAUGHTER Yeah. Bauman: Were there any significant incidents, events sort of things that stand out in your mind from your years working at Hanford, that you remember? Johnson: Well, when I worked on fire department, I was the youngest guy there. Actually I was 20 years old when I went to work on the fire department. And I used to have to ride the back of that truck. And when you'd have a fire—and we had a lot of false alarms, these kids would pull them pull-boxes all over town-- but you had to respond just like it was a real fire. And a lot of them we'd get was at the Bomber Bowl, you know, after a football game. But you'd be in bed, asleep, in the winter time. And then all of the sudden all the lights would come on and those bells will go bong, bong, like that. And you're just in a fog up out of there. And then you hit that cold air out there and it was a real shock. In fact I talked to a guy that works on the Seattle Fire Department, and I told him. He said, oh, they wouldn't let you do that no more. They don't let you ride the back of that truck. He asked me if we were tied on. I said no, we hung on pretty hard, though. You just had to, back there. But it was a good place to work. I really did like it. Before I retired it was not near as good. Because I was one of the youngest guys out there in my department. And most of the other older guys that I've worked with had either died or retired. So it wasn't the same. Bauman: What--of the different jobs you had at Hanford, different parts of the site that you worked, was there a job that you found the most rewarding? That you enjoyed the most, or one maybe that you found the most challenging? Johnson: The last one I had, the air balance job was. There was a lot of math in it, you had to figure out air flows, and you had take air flows. We had to test--they had open-faced hoods in there. And we had to check them--I think we checked them once a month to make sure the flow was up to standard. And I know one of the guys who was vice president out there when he retired. He used to see us, he'd stop and tell us that what you're doing is more important than any other job out here. You're keeping people safe, he said. I really appreciated that, that the vice president would notice us. But that was the best. I thought that was the most challenging job I had out there. You had to use your brain a little bit, and all that stuff. Bauman: You started to talk about this a little bit, maybe I'll ask you to talk about it a little more. So how was Hanford as a place to work? What overall are your impressions of your almost 40 years working there? Johnson: I thought it was really a fairly safe place to work, really. As far as the jobs I had, they were real careful about everything. I know my uncle took me through a plywood plant in Longview one time. The safety wasn't near as good there as it was on Hanford. It was easy to see that. It was a good job, really. As it went on you had to go through more things. They're always sending you to a class that didn't help you a bit, I didn't think. [LAUGHTER] But it was a good place to work. Bauman: I teach a class on the Cold War, and the of course, a number of the students that I have in my class were born after the Cold War ended. And so have no memories at all of the Cold War. Of course you were working at Hanford-- much of time you were working at Hanford was during the Cold War. So I wonder for young people today or future generations, how would you describe working at Hanford during this period of the Cold War, explain to them what that was like? Johnson: Well, it was-- I don't know how you would say it. It's a good place to work. They take real good care of you up there, I thought they did. The only thing I didn't like about it was shift work. I didn’t care for that. [LAUGHTER] My wife used to tell when I was coming towards the end of graveyard, she'd say well you're getting to be halfway decent to live with again. We changed shifts. We didn't work one straight shift. You work a week of swing, and a week of graveyard, and a week of days. Terrible shift. Anything would have been better than that. But I would say, if you don't mind shift work, it was great. Because I was lucky I ended up, when I went to work at Battelle I got day shift most of the time. But they were good people to work for. Pretty honest, people were out there. They all had Q Clearances, and so they had to be pretty reputable people to work there. So that was nice to work with people you trust and depend on. And it was all around a good place to work for me. I'm not sure how it is now. But I have a relatives out there now. Quite a few of them. Bauman: Is there anything I haven't asked you about in terms of your work at Hanford? Or anything you haven't had a chance to talk about yet, but you'd like to talk about? Johnson: I can't think of any now, I probably will when I get home. [LAUGHTER] I can't think of it now. [LAUGHTER] Some stuff comes back to me every once in a while that I don't think of all the time. There's a lot of funny things that happened out there. I remember one time the guys at my supervisor on graveyard, they'd always go dump their garbage out of their office. And it was still dark out, and he dumped it and a raccoon come out. About scared him to death, I guess [LAUGHTER] I remember one time they had to knock the reactor down when raccoons got in there where the transformers were. And he jumped from one to the other one, well it zapped him right in midair. So it knocked the reactor down. So there was a few funny things that did happen. Bauman: Well, I want to thank you very much for coming in today and sharing your memories, both about your childhood in Richland and also your years working at Hanford. I appreciate it. Johnson: Okay, thank you. Location The location of the interview Washington State University - Tri Cities Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:42:21 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 248 kbps Hanford Sites Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview 300 Area 700 Area 100 D Area DR Area H area F Area B Area 183 Building 190 Building Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1936-2013 Years on Hanford Site Years on the Hanford Site, if any. 1955-1994 Names Mentioned Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community. Hanson, Pete Brewer, Max Brewer, Lawrence Kass, Gordon Kass, Norman Bowder, Donna Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Norman Johnson Description An account of the resource An interview with Norman Johnson conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-11-5 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-06-15: Metadata v1 created – [RG] Subject The topic of the resource Hanford (Wash.) Hanford Site (Wash.) Hanford Nuclear Site (Wash.) Nuclear weapons plants--Environmental aspects--Washington (State)--Hanford Site. DuPont Fishing General Electric Richland (Wash.) Westinghouse https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F2ef98f841615da0c95bd236509f3be0a.jpg c027cf4d6ac547aa7a70199207bd8864 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F88a6918187bf5609936480b5be0b837c.mp4 2245074063970b1c41729a69fc2e7eca Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pre-1943 Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Description An account of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert Bauman Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Dick Wiehl Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Northwest Public Television | Wiehl_Dick </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Robert Bauman: My name is Robert Bauman. I'm conducting an oral history interview with Dick Wiehl on June 25 of 2013, and we're conducting the interview on the campus of Washington State University Tri-Cities. And I'll be talking to Mr. Wiehl about his family's history, particularly their history in White Bluffs and the area around there. So I'm going to start with maybe talking about your family first, asking about them. Do you know how and when they came to the White Bluffs area? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Dick Wiehl: Well, my grandfather--that's who we're talking about--came in the late 1890s, and it was as a result of advertisement, which was nationwide, I suppose, at the time to get people out here to populate the area. And he came out with the prospect of buying some acreage, which he did, and upon which they established a ranch. And that would have been in the very latest part of the 1890s. Bauman: And do you know where he came from? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Minnesota. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Did he come by himself? Wiehl: He came with his father, initially. Then his father went back and lived the rest of his life back in Minnesota. He had a good position back there, but this was an opportunity for a young man to strike out on his own and see if the road was, indeed, paved with gold in the West. And that's how the land was sold. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Sure. Do you know much about your mother's family? I'm sorry, your grandmother's family, the Craig family, right? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Yeah, and she was Hattie Wright from the Craig family. And she came from Ellensburg, so she was out here even before my grandfather. And how they met, I don't know. But I do know that they were married about 1900, and then moved on together and onto the ranch that my grandfather was then establishing on the banks of the Columbia River. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: So could you describe the ranch? I know you didn't really live there, but you spent some summers there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Well, I was born in 1936, and they were out of there in 1943. So those were the years that--obviously, I don't remember much from 1936. But from about 1940 on, I do. I have vivid memories and stories that were told. And so that's really where my relationship started was about that time. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Can you describe the ranch? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: It was, in my perspective, it was huge. [LAUGHTER] And it was. There were thousands of acres that were leased, and the ranch, kind of the official ranch itself, was several hundred acres. And, of course, to a child at that time, I'd go with my grandfather, and we'd go horseback riding, and he would be checking on various operations on the ranch on a day-to-day basis, and we'd go all day. [LAUGHTER] And have lunch somewhere in saddle bags, and then come back by evening. And we'd be gone from 7 o'clock in the morning until 6 o'clock in the evening, just riding on the ranch. Never left it. So it was a big ranch. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Right. So what sort of crops did your grandfather grow? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Well, the crops I remember specifically, because I was out there picking potato bugs, were the potatoes. And so they grew potatoes. They had gardens. They were completely self-sufficient. And I remember my grandmother out there working in a large garden, and the other vegetables that they had I wouldn't recall. But there were lots of them, and the potatoes were where I would come in. And they had cattle, a lot of cattle, which were on the rangeland that they had leased. They had goats. They had chickens. And just had horses, obviously horses. Just about every animal that you would need in an operating ranch. And some of the animals were work animals, and some of them were riding, some of the horses were riding horses. And they had a lot of them. And just the care and maintenance of those animals was a full-time job, which was generally done by the women--meaning my grandmother, or the younger kids when they were there, or then eventually my aunt, who was a teenager when they had to move out of there in 1943. Just took care of the chickens and things like that. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Now did you have siblings or cousins who would spend the summer there? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: No. I had a younger sister, but she was too young to be involved in that. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: And now the cattle, did they sell any of the cattle? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Oh, yeah. They were involved in the cattle markets, and I can remember the wailing and moaning over the, this is a Republican cattle market, or this is a Democratic cattle market. [LAUGHTER] Whether things were up or down, that's the way they would talk about it. And they could always blame somebody for the fact that the market was down. So that was important to them. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Do you have any idea where they sold the cattle? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: No, no, no. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: So what other buildings were there besides the ranch house itself? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: The main ranch house, and then there were a cold room, a big refrigerator, actually, which was an ice room. Several buildings, which were-- The house fronted on a lane. The lane was the highway that actually ran through from Othello and Moses Lake to the Columbia River, where you'd catch it to go over to White Bluffs, which was immediately across the river. And so their front yard was immediately contiguous to that road. Across the road were several buildings. I don't recall how many, but several for machinery. Barns, lean-tos, rather ramshackle but utilitarian structures for the housing machinery. And then they had chicken coops, and they raised goats, and they had goat houses, and so they had a lot of outlying buildings, which were particularized for a certain function on the ranch. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: And when you spent summers there, was there, for instance, electricity? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: No. There was a telephone, and that was- When I was originally there, there wasn't electricity. In fact, I don't know if there ever was electricity. I think that it was coming, and it may have been there in the latter years, but that was relatively new, if there at all. The telephone, I do remember, because that was exciting when anybody on the line got a call, because everybody was included in it. [LAUGHTER] You'd dial an operator, a central operator that was in White Bluffs. I'm sure that must've been where she was. And she was on a first name basis with everybody. It was one ring here and two rings there, and so the telephone was quite an active source of getting the word out in the small community. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: So how’d that work? So if the phone rang in the house-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: It’d be two rings; that meant it was your phone. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: If it was more than that-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Or less, it was somebody else's phone. It didn't make any difference. Everybody went over and got it. [LAUGHTER] And sometimes they’d even join into the conversation when they weren't supposed to be even on the line. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Not a whole lot of privacy. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: No. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] And then what about irrigation? You must have had some sort of irrigation? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: They had irrigation. I can remember wandering through the fields with my grandfather as he--There was blockages that occurred from time to time in the ditches that were coming out from the-- there were outlets for the water. And they had a good irrigation system. They must have taken the water right out of the Columbia, pumped it up there, and distributed it, because the ranch was on a level, probably two or three feet above the Columbia River. So it wouldn't have been difficult to do. Lots of pipe. I remember he had a shipment of pipe come in one time when I was there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: What kind of pipe? Like cement? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Yeah. It was, and it was very, very heavy. It'd last forever, I thought, not realizing that the government was going to probably dig it all up in a couple of years. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Right. And then what about the house itself? Do you remember how large it was, how many bedrooms, or anything like that? Wiehl: It had two bedrooms, a master bedroom and a kid’s bedroom, because when I was there, my aunt was still—she was just a couple years older than I. And so she had her bedroom, and my grandparents had their bedroom, and then there was a large sleeping porch on one end of the house, where since I was there in the summertime, I would sleep with my grandfather on this sleeping porch. And there were a room for a couple of other people to sleep out there too if we had guests or something like that. And then there was a huge room in the center of the house, where they had community gatherings. I mean, it was that big. So that if the local farmers wanted to get together for a meeting of some kind followed by snacks or even a dance, they would always have it in that what Grandpa called the great hall. And it was large by my estimation. And then they had the other big room in the center of the house was the kitchen and dining area. And those are the rooms I remember. I'm sure there probably were other rooms that I was never even shown to. But those are the rooms I remember. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: So it was a place where people came. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Oh, yes, oh, yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Very definitely. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Wow. And at the time you were there, it was a larger house that had that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Yes. They kept adding on until--I think it probably took its final shape in about 1920. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Wow. Now, you mentioned your aunt. I wonder if you could just for clarification, state the children, or I guess in your father's generation, who-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Well, all right. Their dad was born in 1909. Wright, the oldest, was born in 1903. And Elroy, the youngest boy, was, I would say, 1920. And my aunt was 1933. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Quite a range. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Yeah. About 20 years. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Yeah. For that time, it was quite a range. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: And you were born? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: In 1936. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: 1936. In Yakima? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: In Yakima, yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: And so your family was in Yakima-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: But you would spend summers-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Yes, I couldn't wait for the summers. I had to get over there and spend time with—Well, I was the baby at that point, and so I loved that. And loved to get over there and play with his tractors. And that's what I would do. He had several tractors. The one that I liked was a very nice John Deere big green tractor. But it was a small tractor for those times. And so I could actually sit on the seat, and by the time I was six, I could reach the pedals. Now to guard against anything ever happening, the battery was always taken out when I came over there, so nothing would go awry. [LAUGHTER] One time I came over though, and I think it was either in '41 or '42, because I had to be at least that old. We pulled down into the driveway, and I jumped out of the car and ran over to the tractor, which was sitting out on the road. I mean, this was the highway that it was sitting out on, which, as I explained earlier, just kind of ran right through the property. And I didn't know it, but the tractor had been used that morning, and my grandpa didn't know exactly when we were coming. In any event, he didn't take the battery out of the tractor. So I jumped on and did what I'd always hoped I could do: drive the tractor. It started, and everybody was standing back completely amazed and shocked and dazed, because I roared down the street. [LAUGHTER] And Dad was running after me and Grandfather on the other side. And I basically said, it's under control. Went down about 100 yards, turned around, brought the tractor back, and stopped it. And Grandpa said, well, I guess we don't have to take the battery out anymore. [LAUGHTER] But thinking of that, what really kind of alarmed me was the fact that I was driving the tractor and having things under perfect control, I thought. But I was a little concerned about my dad running alongside on one side and my grandfather on the other. I didn't think they could hold up a lot longer. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] That's a great memory. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Yeah. Bauman: So when you were there in the summers, you picked a lot of potato bugs, and you would ride out with your grandfather? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Right. And just a lot of times sometimes play with my aunt. We would go exploring, and the property was vast, and there was always something, a place to go, an island to visit, and so we would just do what kids do, and swim in the Columbia River, and she raised a lot of little chickens. And so we would go out and count the chickens and make sure they were fed and play with them. They were very cute little things. And games. I mean, it was a time when kids would play board games. And so we got pretty good at a couple of those. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: And you mentioned it was right on sort of the main road. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Right. It went right through the ranch. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Right. So were there a lot of people driving through? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: From time to time. Nothing like today. But no, there would be two or three cars that I would see a day going in both directions. And I don't even know whether they had a ferry schedule, but I know that my grandfather would go down there at a certain time, which was a horse ride, it would have probably been about a three-minute horse ride down to where the ferry was. And so he was committed to be there at certain hours. So from that, I assume there must've been some sort of schedule, but he wasn't there on call. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: So he would, was operating the ferry, take the ferry-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Back and forth. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Back and forth to the car on the other side. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Yeah. And the whole procedure wouldn't take very long after he got the ferry started up. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: So was he-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: And I went down with him a lot of times. And that was a big thrill, because he would, if they were old diesel, it was an old diesel engine, and he would get that. It seemed like it took forever to get that fired up, but when it was, it would go clunk, de-clunk, de-clunk, de-clunk, and then we would go, de-clunk, de-clunk, de-clunk across the load one place or the other. I don't remember, but it was back and forth. And if there were-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: How long did it take? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Oh, the ferry ride itself, maybe five minutes. The river was pretty big, but still, you made steady progress. I wouldn't say it was very long. But exciting. And you certainly needed the ferry, because there were no bridges in the area. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Do you know how long your grandfather had been operating the ferry? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Oh, I think he ran that for, well, 20 years anyhow. Yeah, because he ran it right up until 1943, and certainly, from '23. That would have been 20 years. That much and probably more. Probably more. Probably back to maybe 13. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: That was probably operating up to 1943. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Oh, yeah. Right up to the time they left, and he took the keys with him. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: So did you-- your grandparents' ranch was on one side of the Columbia from White Bluffs. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Mm-hm, was just across the river. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Across the river. Did you go over there fairly often? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Oh, yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: And what sorts of things did you do? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: I would be there when Grandpa would take the ferry over, and he'd maybe wait for 10 or 15 minutes or maybe sometimes longer. And if he had business-- he was in charge, so he could pretty well decide when the ferry went back. And the ferry dock was right at the edge of town, and so I'd just walk up. There was a little landing. I'd walk up, and I'd be right in the center of town. The center of town-- we're not talking a big town here. But there were stores there, and I was just-- I'd go in and look around. And maybe sometimes I'd have a nickel or something like that, and I could buy something, generally sweet. And that would be a big, big deal. I picked a lot of potato bugs for a nickel. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] Do you remember the names of any of the stores? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: No, no. I remember a hardware store, though, that, in particular, that was just awesome, because it had things all over the walls, and it always sort of looked like a toy store as far as I was concerned. But it was clearly a hardware store. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: You mentioned earlier that at your grandparents' ranch, they often had sort of social events there. Do you remember any community or social events in White Bluffs, the town itself for like 4th of July or anything? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: No. No, I don't. I don't remember anything like that. I do remember that my grandparents themselves had a couple of 4th of July-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: --picnics or summer picnics. I don't know whether they were specifically 4th of July, when they would have friends and relatives in to share a lunch. And I can remember picnic tables being set out underneath the trees, and a lot of people being there. Everybody having a good time, and I remember that a couple of times. They were very sociable people. And of course, that was one way that people could get together with their neighbors and discuss the issues of the day, which were generally how to get better, get more income. And all the people in that area were really pioneers. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Sure. Before we started talking, you showed me a photo of your grandfather in a baseball uniform. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Mm-hm. A White Bluffs baseball team. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Right. I don’t know, did your grandfather talk about that often? Do you remember your grandfather talking about that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: I have no memories personally of it, except that my father talked about the White Bluffs baseball team and was very proud of this picture of his father in uniform of the White Bluffs baseball team. Which was probably circa 1900 at that point. So clearly that baseball was very much a part of civilized life in the Hanford, Richland White Bluffs area. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Did you have any interactions with Native Americans in the area at all yourself? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: I would see them. I myself had no interactions at that time. Later, I got to go onto the Priest Rapids reservation and was invited to one of the last-- oh, they have a name for it-- kind of a big celebration potluck that they had before they built the dam. But no, I didn't. I would see them, but I never had any contact. And the other thing, I wasn't afraid of them or anything like that. It was just that they weren't on my agenda for the day. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: How about neighbors? Were there-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: There were virtually no neighbors. The ranch was it. My grandparents knew where their neighbors were, but they had to be a long way away. But they could ride and did ride over to wherever they were. I never saw a neighbor's ranch on our side of the river. So it must've been quite a distance. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Right, right. And you mentioned you spent a lot of time playing with your aunt. Were there other children? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: No. No, there were no neighbors. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Right. So you spent summers there up until 1943. So you and your family were living in Yakima when the government decided to build the Hanford site. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Short notice. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Short notice, yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Very short notice. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Do you have any memories of that, or stories that your parents have told you? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Oh, yeah. I have a memory, because I wasn't going there that summer. [LAUGHTER] And it was crisis time, because I'm guessing to a certain extent, but I won't be far off, that they were notified by telephone first and with a letter following. And they had something like 15 to 30 days--very short--in which that they had to get out. And this was the late winter of 1942 or the early part of 1943. Getting out is one thing, but where are you going to go? And so all heck broke loose. I mean, we've got to get out. Where are we going to go? And so the search was undertaken of where, because Grandpa was a rancher. He had all these cattle, horses. And so they eventually found a place near Selah, a ranch near Selah, which they bought. And they moved some of the livestock, which they did take with them. And he started anew in Selah and ran a dairy for probably about seven or eight years until after the war. When at that point, they had to move out. But they didn't have to accept the amount of money that the government gave them, and this was an important point. Some did, but those that didn't still had to move out. But after the war, they could take the government to court and prove that they did not get fair value for their land. And my grandparents did that. Of course, they had their own house attorney, my father. And they got probably in 1946 or 1947 fair value for the acreage that the government had taken. And with that, they then sold the ranch in Selah and bought a huge ranch up by Cle Elum in the Teanaway. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Wow. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: And moved there. Moved there, and lived-- Grandpa lived a short but happy life in that area. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Do you have any idea what the fair value was? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: No. But it was substantially more than the government gave. The government wasn't interested in carving up nickels and dimes and half dollars. They wanted the land quickly. They got that, and then they would settle up accounts later. And it was a painful process if you were one of the people that got kicked off your land, but that's the way it worked. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Yeah. I was wondering, do you remember or heard any stories or heard your grandpa or parents ever talking about their feelings about that, having had started this homestead and having been there for-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: I think they looked at it-- yes, I remember. And in particular, my uncle Elroy, who was pictured in some of those pictures that we were reviewing. He graduated from the University of Washington in 1941. And at that time, he was an ROTC cadet at the Reserve Officers Training program. He had been in that, and so he was going in to the Army in that summer. Well, that's perfect timing [LAUGHTER] for seeing a lot of action during the Second World War. And so he was an officer throughout the war, and, of course, was nowhere around in 1943. He was training for the invasion of Europe at that point in Fort Benning, Georgia, if I recall. And he never saw his--he left as a soldier, and at the end of the war, he couldn't go home. [LAUGHTER] I mean, his life had been uprooted. And that's just his personal case. And he was very matter of fact about it, but talked about it. It hurt him. But so what, really? I mean, we had to win the war. And I think that was the way my grandparents-- I never-- they wanted a fair price, because the government could do that, but they never argued or never felt badly about contributing to the quicker end of the war by the building of the atomic bomb. They felt pretty good about it, I think, that they had made a contribution. But then that doesn't entitle the government to steal it either. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Sure, right. Let's talk a little bit more then about some of your family members. So you said your uncle Elroy was at University of Washington. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Mm-hm. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Your father had already gone there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Yes. He was a prosecuting attorney in Yakima at that time. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: And so you and your family were living there. And then your other uncle, Wright? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Yeah, he was the number one son, so he stayed with the ranch. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: And so when they were kicked out of there in 1943, Wright went right along with my grandfather, went to Selah, and they bought a house for him right next door to or across the lane from where my grandparents were. And then when they went up to the Teanaway to Cle Elum, he went right along with them, and he was the foreman of everything. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: And then your aunt, obviously, would have been still young, so she-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Yeah, she graduated in late, 1950 or something like that from high school and married a man from Yakima. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Are there any memories that stand out to you in terms of your times, your summers there that either are something humorous or just something that stands out particularly that we haven’t talked about yet? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Well, I had a-- well, I've told you that they had chickens. And so we ate a lot of chicken, and we had a lot of eggs. And my grandmother was very careful in selecting-- we weren't going to eat a good layer. And so if the chicken was really performing out there with the eggs, then that chicken was safe for as long as that happened. [LAUGHTER] And of course, the chickens had to be killed. Well, a lot of times, there was a chopping block out behind the house, and most of the time, my grandmother would go out there and chop the head off. And that was an awesome sight for a little kid, because she would chop the chicken's head off and plop the chicken down. The chicken would run around for a minute or so, until it finally flopped over, and then we had to pull the feathers and get the chicken ready to be put into a pot. Well, handy as my grandfather was, at one point, he went out there to do this trick--chopping the head off—and he took his thumb along with the chicken head. And so he picked his thumb up, and he was way ahead of his time on that, and cauterized the wound, and then drove all the way to Yakima, which was the closest major hospital where he could get aid. And that was a long drive in an old pickup, or new at that time. It was an awesome feat. And he got there, and they said, no, we can't reattach the thumb. Which today they probably could do. Later that year, I had a friend in Yakima, and Grandpa would come up and visit us every once in a while. I had a friend, basically the same age, say, probably seven or eight, who sucked his thumb constantly. Little Ronnie, and he was always sucking his thumb. And Grandfather came out one day. We were playing out near the driveway where the car was. And Ronnie was sucking his thumb, and Grandpa says, you got to be careful about that, kid. You got to be careful. You shouldn't do that. And he says, I did, and look what happened, and he put up his hand, and there was no thumb, just a-- Ronnie took his thumb out of his mouth, and I don't think he ever popped it back in again. That was it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Oh, wow. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: That solved the problem. [LAUGHTER] So that was a-- I was startled myself. [LAUGHTER] And that's one of the things that happened there that was kind of funny. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Yeah. How would you, from your memories, describe your grandparents? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Very loyal, to start with, and very much involved in one another's lives, because they were in this together. A great feeling being around them. A great feeling. They were involved in everything together, and Grandmother was--Grandpa was smart. Grandmother was just as smart, and the two of them had physical constitutions. We had to be made of steel to live in there, and they were, emotionally and physically. That's a rare thing. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Right. Yeah. Like to do what they did at the time they did is, owning that ranch and so forth, yeah. Did you see any other extended family much at all, either on your grandmother's side or your grandfather's die? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Oh, the extended-- Wright was there, the oldest brother, because he was the chief hand. And he would be involved everyday on what needed to be done on the ranch. And one of the reasons my grandpa could slip away and run the ferry, because Wright was tending the ranch. He had a wife that lived there on the premises in another house. So that adds to the houses, which I forgot about. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Oh, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: But they were always close at hand. And then he had a daughter. Wright had a daughter. He had a wife and a daughter, and the daughter then married, and her husband came on as a hand, too. So they had four or five other people that were in the mix all the time, all relatives. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: What was their last name, Wright's daughters and husbands? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Bobbi was her name, and I can't remember. Gaige. Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Gaige, okay. I'm going to then go back and talk about your grandfather a little bit more. When we were talking earlier, I mentioned looking at census records. In 1940, he was the numerator of the census. I know he was very active in the community in addition to just being very busy with the ranch. Were there other positions, community positions that he held? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Well, he was the deputy sheriff in both counties, and that was important that it be in both counties, because you never knew which way the crooks were going to come, you see. [LAUGHTER] And he had a jail on either side of the river. And he had a photographic memory, which was the reason that he kept active those two jails, because they were all the wanted posters would come to him. They would go up on a bulletin board in the ferry boat or on the ferry boat. So if people were on the ferry, and there was nowhere to go. I mean, once you were on the ferry, you were stuck. You were like in a jail right then and there. If you were so unlucky as to be identified on the ferry, you would be escorted off at the other end to a local jail. And Grandpa picked up a lot of-- I don't know a lot, but enough to talk about-- of people going back and forth over the river there. So he was very much involved in that process. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Were there ever any stories? Did he tell you any stories about any particular-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Well, I remember, this had nothing to do with the wanted posters, but it had to do with the jails. Since he was a deputy sheriff in both counties, occasionally, there might be a law enforcement issue. And generally, that involved people going across to White Bluffs, cowboys after a roundup, and having too much alcohol. Then the alcohol would take control of the situation. They'd get noisy, boisterous, maybe unruly, and when they got past the noisy area and into the unruly, then they would call for Grandpa. And that happened a couple of times, and one time, specifically, he went down there, and he would deputize people right on the spot. And they would take the drunken cowboys and throw them into the jail. Well, the one time they did that, two or three of them were thrown into jail, locked up, and Grandpa basically said, well, we'll see you in the morning and let you out then. Well, when he got there in the morning, the jail was gone. Somebody-- his friends, these cowboy friends-- the jail wasn't very big-- they had lassoed the jail, pulled it off its little foundation that it was on, taken it 100 yards down the river and broken them out. [LAUGHTER] And he said, much to their credit, they came back sheepishly a few days later, helped move the jail back to where it was supposed to be, and repaired it so it was as good as new. [LAUGHTER] So the story had a happy ending, but I mean, that was kind of the justice of the old West, I guess. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Yeah. So was this jail in the town of White Bluffs itself? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Just on the edge. Closer to the river. He had it on both sides of the river. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: And then on the Franklin County side, was it right on the river too? Close to it? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Yeah. Both sides were very-- more like a little outhouse. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Which was susceptible to lassoing and moving, apparently. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Yeah, right. It's that small. I think I know you were just there in the summers, so you didn't attend school-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: No. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: --in White Bluffs. Churches-- do you remember churches? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: No. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Did your grandparents go to church over there? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: No, no, there probably was one. I'm sure there was one in White Bluffs. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: But you don’t have any memories-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: But I have no memory of going there, and I doubt if my grandparents did. They were probably still involved in the workday affairs of the ranch. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: Sure. And then I guess, any other memories that you have-- you told some great stories. [LAUGHTER] Is there anything else that you remember from your summers there? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: No, not specifically. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: And I guess the other question would be, obviously, the town of White Bluffs then in 1943 essentially ceased to exist. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Yeah, it did. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: That community. Why do you think it's important for us to remember the town, for future generations maybe to know about White Bluffs and the things that people like your grandparents did there? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Well, right now, it's forgotten. And that doesn't seem to be fair. A town should, once started, should live out its natural life. And this did not happen with White Bluffs. Its natural life was truncated suddenly by Presidential decree. And I think that an effort should be made to still let White Bluffs live out its natural life, and making a history of it may help. It may also help bring closure to a lot of the people that are now content that their story has been told. Here, living in Yakima, we tell our own story. We're there to tell our own story. But the people here didn't have that opportunity. So I think it's important. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: All right, well, thank you very much. I really appreciate you coming here and doing the interview-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: My pleasure. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: --and telling the stories. They were terrific. Thank you. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Wiehl: Get myself unhooked there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX201929330"> Bauman: I'll help you out. </div> Location The location of the interview Washington State University - Tri-Cities Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:45:50 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 235 kbps Names Mentioned Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community. Wright, Hattie Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Dick Wiehl Description An account of the resource An interview with Dick Wiehl conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Subject The topic of the resource White Bluffs (Wash.) Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-06-29: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.] Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 7/16/2013 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. 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Horseback riding swimming White Bluffs (Wash.) https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F0679822ca9a8d5569e80be87de0ba644.jpg fafae55dc6d92c14429447cdc4838c1e https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F60f5c824efd8721582df5663210be323.mp4 92c5db41aace0c6b2629087ff6826582 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pre-1943 Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Description An account of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert Bauman Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Emma Kleinknecht Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Northwest Public Television | Kleinknecht_Emma </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Robert Bauman: I'm conducting an oral history interview with Emma Larson Kleinknecht if I have the name right, correct? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Emma Kleinknecht: Right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: And the spelling is K-L-E-I-N-K-N-E-C-H-T? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Correct. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Excellent All right. Make sure we have the spelling right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yep. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: And today's date is June 12, 2013 and we're conducting the interview on the campus of Washington State University, Tri-Cities. And I'll be talking with Ms. Kleinknecht about her family's history, her experiences growing up in Richland, in that community. So let's just start, if I could, by asking you about your family. How, and why, and when did they come to this area? What brought them here, and any information about your family and why they came here would be great. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Well, my dad came from Denmark. And he went up to Alaska and worked in the mines. And then he came down to Seattle, and after a while, he got interested in working with the cattle. So somehow or another he came over to Richland and met my mother over there, and she was single. And then he married her, and I was born 1918. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: And your mother, was your mother born and raised in Richland or-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: No. She was born and raised on the coast. But she had relatives that lived over that way. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Do you know when your parents married? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, a couple years before I was born. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: And how about any siblings? Are there any brothers or sisters? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh yes. There were six, three girls and three boys. And then when I was eight years old, my dad came in the house, he says, "Emma, you've got to learn to milk cows." Because the girls were first, you know. So I went out and helped milk cows, or learned how. And from then on, I milked cows. But all of us had to go out and pitch hay to make hay for the cattle, and we put it on a big haystack. And there's a picture of that here. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: So you had a place with lots of cattle? Do you have any idea how many cattle? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah, we had eight cows, two horses. Because in them days, you never had tractors, so you had to have horses, to do all the outdoor work like that. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: And did you grow any crops? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh yes! We raised everything by hand. We had corn, and tomatoes, and you name it. All the vegetables there were. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: And were those primarily for your family? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah. And then the cream, we separated and sent it down to Kennewick to the creamery where they made butter. And, course you got paid for it. And, let's see, what else-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: How big was the place that you had-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: I think we had about 20 acres. We had a lot of asparagus, and us kids had to cut asparagus before the school bus came, or we didn't get to go to school. But we went to an old country school, where was one teacher, five grades. There's a picture of me in one of them pictures. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] And was this in Richland or? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Old Richland, up north. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: We never got downtown for a while. It was really something. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: So you said five grades and-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Five grades and one teacher. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: And do you have any idea of around how many students that would've been? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: I used to know, but I forgot. [LAUGHTER] That was back when. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Yeah. And how long did you go to school there, then? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: I think I was in the fifth grade and then, about that time, we had a school bus that would take us downtown to the old schools. I called them old, because they're so different [LAUGHTER] now. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: You have a photo you wanted me to show? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, yeah. This is the country school. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Okay, great. So it looks like there's maybe, what, 20 or 30? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Could be. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Is there something like that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: It could be. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: 1925? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: That's about right. I wrote it down there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Yeah, 1925. Fruitvale School. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: And this school was used for a church, and a dance hall, and a grange hall. Because, see, all the farmers were grangers. So that was in the good old days. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] And so--that's a great photo--After that, after, say, fifth grade, where did you go to school? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Downtown. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: There was a grade school and a high school down there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: I think you sent us some photos of you playing basketball, maybe? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh yeah! That was downtown. That was a different kind of basketball. I was a side center. I'm the second one there. The tallest girl was the center, and then I was a side center because I was shortest. Then there were two guards, and two forwards. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Oh, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: And now they play just like the boys do. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Yeah, it says champion basketball. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah, that one is. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Yeah, 1935, '36. That's great. Do you remember how long you played? Did you play throughout high school then? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh yeah. That's what this is. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Do you remember if there were other sports for girls to play in high school besides basketball? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: That's all we played, anyway. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: So I assume the schools in downtown Richland were a little bigger? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, yeah. There were five grades in one building. Then we went over to the high school. And right by the high school was a Methodist Church and a Seven Day Adventist. Catholics all had to go downtown because there were no church. And so my dad found some building, and had to make a Lutheran church, because all Scandinavians were Lutherans. And that's where he came from. So we all became Lutherans. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] So you talked about that early school building, in Fruitvale, being used as a school building, a church, a grange. I was wondering about other social activities, or community activities that you might remember growing up. Were there Fourth of July celebrations, or community picnics or any of those sorts of things? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, I've kind of forgot, but I think that it could've been used for anything. But those other things were always the big things. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Them were the days. And I had to run from our house, across the sagebrush to the school. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] So what sorts of things growing up did you do for fun? Did you do fishing, or did you go swimming in the river, or any of those sorts of things? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Well, my dad, when we were little, would take us down at the river and get us swimming to get cleaned up, so we could go to church. [LAUGHTER] See, we weren't too far from that Columbia River where we used to live. But that was in the summertime. [LAUGHTER] So we were tickled to death to get to go down there and swim. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Did the river ever freeze over when you were-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Not when we went down there. This was only in the summer. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Yeah, sure. So the place where you grew up, in addition into a house, did you have a barn? Was there other buildings like an outhouse, anything like that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh yeah. We had outdoor toilets. Pumped our water out of wells, and when we milked the cow we had a separator, and had to separate the milk and get the cream. Yep, we had all them old things. Had to pump water for washing clothes, taking baths, and put water in big tea kettles so you could wash dishes. It was a different world then. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Did you have electricity at all? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: No. Not for years. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: How long did you live there in that place? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Gosh, I don't remember. It seems like my dad passed away, and my mom sold our house. And we moved over next to that school house. There was an old building there. And she still kept a few cows, and just had a garden, and like an orchard out in the fields. So after that, we were catching school buses. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: When you were growing up, what might a typical day have been like for you as a young girl? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: The what? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: What might a typical day have been for you as a young girl-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: The things you might have done on a typical day as a young girl, growing up. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah. Well, I joined the 4H group. For one thing, and we really had a lot of fun. Learned how to sew, and cook, that's what 4Hs were in them days. I don't know if they still have them or not. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: I believe they do, yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Do they? Yeah, those were the days. Then there's times we'd, a few of us neighbor kids, get together and walk down the river, and walk back up, and swing on swings. That was about the size of it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: I wonder if you remember anything--the Great Depression came along in 1929 or so, and I wonder if you remember, with the Depression, anything specific that had impacted your family, or the community in any way? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: No. I think because we raised everything we ate, my mom canned everything. And everything we had was from the ground. And none of us suffered from it. Because we had our own milk and those kind of things. Nope, them were the days. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: And so where were you living in 1943 during World War II, when the federal government came and created the Hanford site? Were you still-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, I was married then. I got married in '38. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Oh, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: That was a bad thing. The government gave everybody a check. They didn't even know this was coming. And told them to get out, take everything you got and leave. So my mom went to Grandview. Some of them went up there, some went to Prosser, and a couple of them stayed there. But they all had to leave town and they went to Kennewick. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: So your mother was still living on the same place at that time and she left and to Grandview? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah. Bauman: Were any of your younger siblings still living with her, or-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah, I think they were, because I was the oldest one. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: And so you said you got married in 1938? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: '38, yeah. Bauman: And who was your husband? How did you meet? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Umm, he was a friend of my sister's boyfriend. [LAUGHTER] That's how I met him. In fact, his folks they didn't live too far from where we built a big house and lived in there, on Westhood Avenue. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: So you said that you moved to Kennewick, right? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: What was Kennewick like in 1938-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: It was real small. Just a small town, and it was just groceries and a couple drugstores. It's not pool halls like you go down there now. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] And what did your husband do? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: He was just a--oh, he was a farmer but afterwards, he worked out in Hanford in the fire department. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Do you know how long he was there or worked at the fire department? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: I'm trying to think. They let him go, and then he got sick and passed away. It was probably something from out in that area. But that's been several years ago. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Now, you mentioned going back to talking about the place where you grew up, that you had a well for water-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah, we pumped our water out of the well. For even the cows and the horses. And we had to bring the horses up to the pump, because that's okay. But he carried the water in a big wheelbarrow, in buckets, to put in a barrel down for the cows. Because he wasn't about to, I'm sure, drag them up there. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: And did you have irrigation at all? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh yes! Oh, yes, not for the house, but for the fields. Oh yeah, we had K.I.D., just like they got now. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] Were there any other photos, Gary, that you wanted to talk about, or any other-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Well sure. We've got her graduating class. Just--I'll hold it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: What year is-- You said you graduated high school in what year is that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: '38, or '36. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: 1936. Graduating class of how many is that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Graduating class of 15. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Was that Columbia high school? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: No. Richland. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: The old Richland, right, sure. Richland, High. Then it became Columbia, the Columbia High, you're right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yep. Two, four, five boys, and the rest are girls. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Did you stay in contact with a lot of your high school friends after? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh after I graduated and got married we all kind of--then several years ago we had picnic lunches together, but that's been a while back. But not many of them are here anymore. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Do you remember any of your teachers from the high school? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, yeah. That basketball player, oh that guy there. In the middle, up there, Mr. Carmichael. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Oh, is that Mr. Carmichael? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Isn't that who the school was named after? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Mm-hm. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Was he a principal? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yep. He was a good guy. There was a grade school and a high school in downtown Richland. And that was-- I can't see the—193-what? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Five. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Yeah. Both are in 1935. Do you know where in Richland that would have been? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah. You know where John Dam's grocery store used to be? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: No, is it-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: On Kennewick Avenue. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: [INAUDIBLE] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: You don't know either, huh? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: That's all right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: I know where to pick them out. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: I know where the Amon Building is. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Well, just back there a ways. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Oh, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: But see, that's all that was around those buildings, just little-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Mm-hm. Yeah, not a whole lot of other buildings there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: No. I think there's a toilet in the back out there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Yeah, I would hope so. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Are there any things that you remember growing up or that really stand out to you that--memories you have, or things that you think would be really important for people to know about this place where you grew up that we haven't talked about yet? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Well, they would never have realized how we made our living off the ground. Kids nowadays won't do that. Okay, here is us kids driving the horses. Because we had no tractors. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: And that's you and a couple of your siblings? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yep, a couple boys. Yep. That's old Prince and Henry. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: And did you have the horses then the whole time you were growing up? You never got tractors? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Well, when my dad was alive, we never had a tractor. And there's that one with the hay. Okay, that's how—Show them. Show them how the haystacks were. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Can you talk about it? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah. I know us kids would get the hay in big stacks. Then we'd throw it up on this wagon. And then tie--they had a rope here and here, and then time we got down to the haystack, they'd tie that rope up above in there, and then pull it over. Roll it, that's how they got the hay in a big stack. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Sounds like a lot of work. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: It was. In the winter time, they'd take a great big canvas and cover the top of the hay, so it wouldn't get wet and ruined. That's how they fed the cattle and the horse. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: I was going to ask you about any neighbors. Who were your closest neighbors, or did you have any really good friends when you were growing up that you remember? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, yeah. These are all--were my neighbors when I grew up. First grade. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Oh. Who are they? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Tell them about them. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, okay. That's, the Kaas boy, I can't think of his name right now. He lived right down a ways. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Is that Gordon? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: No. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: It's at the bottom, Mom. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, did I write it there? Oh, Ed Kaas, yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: And then Phillip Hempcry, right there and me, oh, and Carol Hansen. He's the little guy. But they're no relation. Yep. They all live not too far apart. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Right. In fact, I just talked to Gordon Kaas this morning. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh did you? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: See, and then there was also another one. Started with an F. Oh, phooey. He lived down the Pole Line Road. There was an irrigation canal between the school and the other families' farms. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: And so you lived close enough to those families where you could-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: We played all the time, yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: That's fun. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Gee, I can't think of that name, and I know it like I do even mine. I'll think of it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: That's all right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: [LAUGHTER] Oh! Yeah, my dad wanted to be baker. This is in Denmark. And his dad didn't want him to be a baker, so he and his cousin jumped something and come to the United States from Denmark. And that's how come he met my mom and that's how come I'm here. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: So, did he come to the United States-- do you know why the United States, was it just for opportunity? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Well, to get a good job. He wanted to maybe get to be a baker here. But he and his cousin, they went to Alaska. Then they come to Seattle and worked on a farm. And that's what got him interested. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: That's interesting because Gordon Kaas said that--I was just talking to him this morning--his father is from Denmark. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Yeah. So two families from Denmark living very close. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Well, I'll be darned! What was his name? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Kaas. His first name was--well, Gordon Kaas was the man I talked to this morning, but I think you're talking about his older brother-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Harold. I'll be darned. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Yeah, their father was from Denmark. Initially, they went to Oregon somewhere-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: So, I’m trying to think of any--I guess one other question to ask you is, So you were married in '38 and moved to Kennewick, and I was just gonna ask you about when--do you remember finding out about, for instance, about World War II? The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, do you remember any of that? Any memories about hearing about that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Pearl Harbor. I knew about it, and forgot about it. Who do I know about it? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: It's what started World War II. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Pearl Harbor? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: That's all right. Another question, Did you have--How did you get news? Was there a newspaper or anything? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, yeah. Newspaper. When we were married, we had a little radio for a while, and then we got a TV. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: But when you were growing up, it was a newspaper? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Always. And a radio. Oh when I grew up, you never had televisions. I don't think anybody did. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Do you wanna tell them about that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh. Well, this is my mother, and sisters and brothers, and there's the horse. [LAUGHTER] See, that's how we heated up our house, with wood. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Yeah, sure, right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Everybody did. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: What was the horse's name again? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Prince, one was Prince and one was Henry. I think that was probably Henry, because Prince was a little fussier. And I don't think they would carry him out. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: So the horses were obviously very important. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: For doing a lot of the work on your place. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yep. Because we never had tractors. In fact, you couldn't afford to buy one if you did, if you would want one. Nope. Them were the days. Oh, yes, and here's my momma and my papa, and my two sisters. One of them's me. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: You're the oldest? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Second. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Oh, you're the second? Okay. That's a great photo. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah, my dad-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: So that would've been some time in the 1920s, huh? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Early. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah. He's from Denmark. And he-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Do you know where-- You said she was living in Richland, right? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Do you know where her family came from? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, like, over on the coast. I was trying to think of the little name. Yelm. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Oh, Yelm, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Is that what you said, she had relatives here and that's why-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: That's why she came over. I think she had a sister or an aunt or something. Nope, but I'll never forget our school days. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: We're getting kinda low on them. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: That's Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Do you wanna talk about--well, you've seen--No, that's the little kids. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, the grade school. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Let me hold it, Mom. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Just a minute, I gotta look at them. Oh, this is everybody in that school. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: That's your first grade. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah. 1925. That's my first grade, yeah, but that's the five grades. They all dressed alike in them days. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> [LAUGHING] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: We were all poor people. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: So if someone is to you, like, what sort of place Richland was like to grow up in, what would you--how would you describe it? What would you say to them? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: In them days? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Yeah. When you were growing up. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Well, I'd been in that place for so long. I don't know. Because there was an irrigation ditch from the school to—you cross the bridge, then we'd go home. We used to stop and go swimming. Oh, I kinda liked where I lived. And then, of course, after I got married my mom went to Grandview. But that wasn't my cup of tea. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Did your brothers and sisters, stay in the area? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: I'm trying to think. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Or did they move elsewhere? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: I think they moved elsewhere. I know one went down to Oregon, and the other went up north further. And then my oldest brother was a heavy smoker. And he had to go pass away. I don't know where he ever got money to buy cigarettes, but he did. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Anything else about growing up here in Richland that you want to make sure we know about, or? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Well, I just like the town, Old Richland. And then where there is a yellow building, like before you go down to the park, brick building, that used to be a two story building. And now it's only one. There was a John Dam store, and a Murray Hardware, and--oh, what do you call them? It'll come to me. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: That's all right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Name some names, quick. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Describe, what? Describe it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: The store. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Yeah, describe it. What did they do there? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, like the shave and cut your hair. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Oh-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Barbershop. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Barbershop? Yeah. Was there a movie theater down at all? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Not in Richland. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: No? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: You had to come to Kennewick to go to a movie. [LAUGHTER] And they were cheap, ten cents. Cheap now, I don't know if it was cheap then. [LAUGHTER] My dad did take us kids to a movie once for a dime but it had to be a special. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Right, sure. Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: No, them old days. Right now they're good old days. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] All right, well-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Would you like me to prompt her? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Sure, if there's something that you think-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: I can probably pull a story or two out. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Sure, that's fine. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Okay. Did you guys have dances? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Okay. Did-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: In that school house. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: And did your parents participate? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, heavens, yes. This is the grange hall, after the meetings. My dad danced with every lady. But my mom wasn't dancing. So I asked her why? She said, "I'm a Sunday school girl." But she never learned to dance. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: So she wasn't gonna dance. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: No. She's a Sunday school girl. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Did your dad ever help you gals, or your brothers and sisters get out to go to dances? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: With him. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Oh, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah, we all went to the dances. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: But your mom didn't approve? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: She went along, but she didn't dance. But I'd learned to dance all kinds of dances. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Do you remember when the last time you danced was? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: I do. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: At your wedding? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: No. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: You did there too. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: We out danced every-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: It was your 90th birthday. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, yeah! </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Yeah. You danced with me. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: That's a couple years ago. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: It was. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: [LAUGHTER] I forgot. Yeah, I love to dance. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: So the dances were in that same building as the school and the church grange meetings, or were they different? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: As we grew up, they were in there. But as we got older and the bigger schools they didn't do it anymore. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Oh, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: We all went downtown to the schools, because they were much better schools. More new, indoor toilets, drinking water, everything. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Do you remember when your dad got sick eventually and died, do you remember any of the stories that go along with that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: No. I know he passed away at home. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Do you remember what he died of? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: I think it was his heart. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: It was hepatitis. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: It was what? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Hepatitis. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Hepatitis. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: It was, you called it, the yellow jaundice. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, I'd forgotten that. Yeah. That's been a while back. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Yeah, it was. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah, hepatitis. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: I was gonna ask you, you and your siblings, were you all born at home? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Mm-hm. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: All at home? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah. Nope, doctors never come to your house in them days. You had to deliver them yourself. Nope, them were different days. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Any other stories you think we should talk about? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: If you give me a minute. Earlier there was a question about the river freezing over. It certainly wasn't when you guys went swimming-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, no. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Did it freeze in the winter? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Oh, yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: Was it common? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: [Nods] When it froze. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Did you ever go ice skating on it? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: No. We stayed away from it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: I was also gonna ask you, I understand there was a ferry that would transport people across the river, is that right? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yep. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Somewhere-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Down south at Kennewick. It crossed over to Pasco. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: And that's how people could get across. There weren't any bridges at the time? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Yeah there was, but it was way down, like where it is now. But if you wanted to take the ferry over from Richland, you wouldn't have to drive clear down there. And we did. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: How about the Timmerman ferry? Do you remember that one? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: That name sounds familiar. That was the one across the Yakima? ‘Cause the other one-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: I think it was near the mouth of the Yakima, but I think it crossed the Columbia. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Could be. I've heard the name. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: I'm not sure, it was before my time. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: I think that might be right. I think that's what I heard. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Well, that's the way the cookie crumbles. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] Well, I want to thank you for coming in today and sharing your memories. And the photos are great as well, those are terrific photos. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Sure, I hope I give you some good— </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Oh yeah! It's very interesting stuff to hear about from people who lived here. Who know what was going on. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: People would never done what we did. [LAUGHTER] God. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Bauman: Well thank you very much, I really appreciate you coming-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Imagine, milking cows? [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: They still do. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: Well some places. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Gary: With machines. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX99502551"> Kleinknecht: With machines, yeah. </div> Location The location of the interview Washington State University - Tri-Cities Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:35:20 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 240kbps Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1918-2013 Names Mentioned Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community. Kass, Ed Hempcry, Philip Hansen, Carol Kaas, Gordon Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Emma Kleinknecht Description An account of the resource An interview with Emma Kleinknecht conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-06-13: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.] Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 6/12/2013 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection. Subject The topic of the resource Richland (Wash.) Kennewick (Wash.) Kennewick (Wash.) Richland (Wash.) swimming https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F01ac8b83614b46910a6d77d2a0a53eb9.jpg 176b179b4d82cc90ff3133f3081c1498 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F6115b66c2e17d8782e7fb1f37031877e.mp4 7bc78b004a7a07f6e008322ea9b0642e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pre-1943 Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Description An account of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bauman, Robert Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Sloppy, LaVerne Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Northwest Public Television | Sloppy_LaVerne Camera man: Whenever you are ready. Robert Bauman: All right. Okay, looks like we're ready to start. LaVerne Sloppy: Okay. Bauman: So if we could start by just having you say your name and then spell it for us. Sloppy: LaVerne Sloppy--known by Verne. [LAUGHTER] L-A-capital V-E-R-N-E L. Sloppy--just like it sounds. Bauman: Okay. All right, my name is Bob Bauman, and today's date is November 18, 2013. And we're this interview on the campus of Washington State University Tri-Cities. So I wonder if we could start by having you tell us a little bit about your family when they originally came to this area, where they came from, and that sort of thing. Sloppy: Okay. My mother came to this area in 1909 at the age of four--Nebraska. Bauman: And do you know why your family came out here? Sloppy: Well, my grandfather went to work for the irrigation district. And he later ran the irrigation district. So she moved here with her family. Bauman: Okay, and what was his name? Sloppy: Gus Long. Augustus Long. Bauman: And then how about your father's family? Sloppy: My father's family came to Washington State much earlier, but they didn't really live in Washington at that time. In fact, my dad was born in Prosser. And he came--and may have lived briefly here when my mother was in the eighth grade ‘cause they--my parents went to eighth grade at the same time. Bauman: Okay, and then when did he move here sort of permanently here? Sloppy: He was working for Grosscup Ranch. And then they started going together, I think. And they was married here. That would have been in the late '20s, I guess because they was married in 1930. Bauman: And then, so were you born in Richland then? Sloppy: I was born in Kennewick. Bauman: In Kennewick. Sloppy: They were living in the county outside of Richland I guess at that time. Bauman: And so did your family have a farm? Sloppy: They were, I guess, leasing different things. There were a couple spots in here, and then they moved up east of Corfu in the mid-'30s sometime. And then they came back probably 1938 from up there. Bauman: Okay. And when they came back in '38, where did they live? Sloppy: They lived two--I guess it would be west Richland area when they first moved back, and we moved just to side of the Yakima River off where Van Giesen is today. And then we moved to--still in Richland, but it was the south of the Yakima--it would be south Richland now, in there, I guess. Bauman: Oh, okay. Sloppy: And then they moved off Van Giesen. The house and barn are still there off Van Giesen as you go towards west Richland, you cross a railroad. There's a concrete block house that's got a business in there now. That was the last place we lived in Richland. Bauman: Oh, really? Sloppy: For a while. And yeah, the barn and the house are still there. There's something of a business in the house right now. And the barn is still there, too. Bauman: So on these different places you lived, were these farms for most part? Sloppy: Yeah, they were all farms. Bauman: Mm-hm. And what sort of what's of crops did you grow on those farms? Sloppy: Dad had dairy cows and, of course, alfalfa and then potatoes, starting an asparagus place there on that last place I mentioned. He was actually buying that house. It belonged to the bank and him when they took those places over. Bauman: Oh, okay. And this was the one on Van Giesen? Sloppy: Yeah. Bauman: So you were born in what year? Sloppy: 1932. Bauman: '32? Sloppy: Barely. Bauman: Barely? [LAUGHTER] Sloppy: It was almost '33. Bauman: Oh, okay. Sloppy: I do have one brother. My oldest brother, who is younger than I am, was born in Richland in '34. Bauman: So what do you remember growing up in this area? What was the area like at the time? Sloppy: Well, it was all mostly farms, and of course, the small town of Richland. And my mother, she had mentioned, after high school worked at the--for John Dam in the store that he had until my parents married. Bauman: Mm-hm. Do you remember in this small town of Richland when you were growing up, do you remember any of the specific businesses, the John Dam store, but anything else that you remember? Sloppy: George Gress's butcher shop. Frozen--that's where all the meat was frozen and stuff. And of course we didn't have any electricity on the farms at that time. Bauman: Did you ever get electricity before '43? Sloppy: Not before we moved, because we moved to Kennewick--or to the Finley area, actually after we left here. Bauman: How about a telephone? Sloppy: Not when we was living in Richland. Bauman: When you were growing up on these farms, did you have certain chores or jobs? Sloppy: Oh, yeah. Bauman: What sorts of things did you do? Were you supposed to do? Sloppy: Well, I started out milking one cow when I was about, oh, I guess it was six or seven. And I turned a hammer—the separator for the cream, separating the milk and the cream. And being one of the older ones of some of the chores in the house. And I was carrying water for my mother to wash clothes. Because we didn't have house—water in the house. It was an outside pump, like that--pump the water and carry it for doing the washing and stuff and the house water and stuff. And things like that and all kinds of chores around the farm. He had cows and pigs and chickens. My mother took care of chickens. Bauman: What about school? Where did you attend school? Sloppy: I actually started what should have been my kindergarten year. But I started first grade here on that place east of Othello up there. And then I went through Richland Elementary School until the fifth grade, and that's when we moved to Finley. I attended the Kennewick schools then. Bauman: Okay. And how did you get to school? Did you walk? Did you take a bus? Sloppy: We took buses. They had school buses. It was too far to walk, most of us farmers. Bauman: Mm-hm. Do you have any particular memories about your time at school in Richland? Any teachers or any events that you remember? Sloppy: Not really. I can't remember much. My older sister might remember some of them. But I don't remember. I think it was a Mrs. Bell at one time. That probably had been the first grade because my parents put me back with my peers. Because I actually started first grade up there in a little bitty school that they had out there. Then we had four students in the whole thing, and two of them belonged to the school teacher, and the other one was my older sister. So my parents, I didn't really learn anything in kindergarten. And so they put me back with the students which was real my age--the first grade. And I stayed with them. Bauman: What sorts of things do you remember doing for fun when you were growing up? Sloppy: Well, mostly around the farm and we done a lot of playing outside and stuff--my younger brothers. It was mostly chores. It wasn't a lot of fun things and playing with neighbors’ kids because it was a distance away. Though some of my cousins were fairly close, and my grandfather was living very close. And I remember a lot of things about him and my mother's family here, but I had been told—not that I remember it. Because my grandmother died '33, and my grandfather raised--at the time of her death, it was eight, but one of my uncles died shortly after my grandmother did, and he raised as a single parent, and it was seven children—five girls and two boys, all of which had died in their 80s. And he was actually the one that turned the irrigation water off for the Richland Irrigation District at the time that they took all these places. He retired, but he ran the irrigation district for years as well as farmed. Bauman: So you mean, in 1943 when they turned-- Sloppy: Yeah. He had retired then. He probably retired very late, '39, '40. Bauman: And how long did he work for irrigation district, do you know? Sloppy: 1909 until then. Bauman: Okay, right. That's a long time. Sloppy: Yeah. And also my great-grandmother and grandfather Long were here before him, but they left here and went to western Washington after that. One of my--his younger brother was I think the first graduate in the class from Richland High. It was a book put out here some years ago, I no longer have a copy of it, that has listing him as one of the graduating class. Bauman: Did your mother ever talk about what the area was like when she was growing up? Did she ever have stories to tell? Sloppy: Mainly about her father and her mother and that sort of thing. She always thought that Long Avenue was named after my grandfather. I never saw it in writing or anything, but that was her opinion. Bauman: Do you remember any community events or activities, special occasion things in the area? Sloppy: Grange was quite big then, and they all belonged to the grange and stuff, and was active in that. Social things were more like that, and then even to just to go to town was a big event for the kids. [LAUGHTER] Of course there wasn't all of the whole family at one time. It was usually my father and maybe one or two of the kids. I remember going to George Gress's. He always would give us sausage. He'd hang one of those sausages around the kid's neck and stuff. Bauman: How about churches? Churches in the area? Were there-- Sloppy: They wasn’'t real big in church. They were real moral people. I remember at my grandfather's funeral the minister that gave it said he had known him for something like 40 years and never seen him inside his church or any other church. But he never smoked, drank, or cussed or--was an extremely honest, moral person. However, they did practice it, I mean by their moral standards and stuff. Bauman: So, 1943, when the federal government decides to build the Hanford site, how did your family find out? What memories do you have of that time? Sloppy: Well, I'm not sure. I guess they came to the different locations, which my grandfather was on the shore water property lines also. I told them--but I would have been--in '43, let’s see--4th, 5th grade. I don't remember them coming to the house in particular or anything. Bauman: Did you remember how you found out? Did your parents tell you? Sloppy: My parents told me. Bauman: And do you remember what you thought at the time? Or did your parents have anything--what they said about it? Sloppy: Well, they were just getting started in buying the place, and I'm not sure they were upset about it. But as I remember, the bank owned the majority of the properties, and they were in the process of buying it. I think my parents, if I remember correctly, probably got $1,000 with that--got everything else. My grandfather actually sued the government along with some other people and got slightly more. But he owned his place outright, of course. But how he got told--probably them contacting him to find out where the property lines was and everything. And I had one aunt that had a place too, which no longer exists. It was off Van Giesen too. Bauman: Do you remember how long you were--when you actually moved off your place? Sloppy: It was in '43, I'm sure because my youngest brother was born in '42, and he was a baby. Bauman: Mm-hm. Do you have any idea, like, how long you were there after you found out that you had to move? Sloppy: It was a matter of months, but I can't-- Bauman: Right. You mentioned earlier that this is mostly farms and so forth. Who were your closest neighbors in that last place? Sloppy: Well, let's see. It was a man—by the name of, I guess his last name was Townsend--had a gas station closer to the Yakima there. And then my aunt and uncle—it was kind of kitty-corner place. Their name was Johnson. But the closest ones—I am trying to remember the name, of course, would now be Van Giesen from that house. I can't remember his name. He was a bachelor. I think it was Thornton, but I can't be--I'm not sure on that name. Bauman: Mm. And going back to the property you lived on, what sort of irrigation system did they have? How did that work? Sloppy: It was quite similar to what the Kennewick and Columbia Irrigation Districts are. It was an irrigation ditch, and they piped to the irrigation ditches into it--to the different farms. Bauman: Are there any memories from your years growing up in Richland really stand out to you, or you remember well, or have a special place in your memory? Sloppy: I’m trying to think of something, I can't think of anything off hand. Bauman: Mm-hm. Did you do a lot of fishing and hunting or that sort of thing? Sloppy: Well, I can remember my dad [LAUGHTER] doing some bird hunting and stuff. I can remember killing pheasants in a hay field with a pitchfork, too, out of season. [LAUGHTER] At that place. And we did fish. And, actually, at that place, at that time, when the irrigation system went in, and there were a couple of lakes west of the house that ways. And I'd fish in them. And we did fish in them then. It was out in the pasture and in there--the bullhead and stuff like that. Bauman: Mm-hm. You talked about occasionally going into the town of Richland. Did you ever go to any of the other neighboring towns, White Bluffs, Hanford, Pasco, Kennewick, any of those? Sloppy: No, the only thing I can remember about White Bluffs and Hanford is that my dad when he moved from that place east of Corfu. It's called Corfu by the way--he crossed cows at the ferry there probably on horseback. He brought his cows down from there to wherever we lived in Richland at the time. That book listed a schoolteacher at, I guess it was White Bluffs or a Hanford High School, or a school there as Edith Long, which was my mother's name. But it wasn't my mother. [LAUGHTER] She was not a school teacher. I am trying to remember the name of that book, but it was— Woman, off-screen: Probably "Tales of Hanford, White Bluffs, and Richland" by Martha Berry Parker. Sloppy: By whom? Woman: Martha Berry Parker? Sloppy: Yes, that was probably it. But it did show a woman of that name, and I don't think it was probably two women. So I think that was probably a mistake. To be named Edith M. Long. ‘Cause mom had graduated from Richland High, of course, along with most of her siblings. Bauman: Were there a lot of sports activities with the schools around here? Sloppy: No, they had athletic teams and stuff, which some of my aunts were on the teams. They are mentioned in that book also. As is Uncle Jay, my mother's Uncle Jay, was the one I told you graduated from high school. I don't have my copy anymore. I gave it to one of my brothers, and I never got it back. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: So if someone was to ask you what the community of Richland was like, what this area was like in the 1930s and early 1940s, what would you tell them? Sloppy: This was just a small farming community. They all shopped at John Dam and Vick Nielson's--his partner, by the way, store. Most of them had running tabs there and storing their meat that they had butchered and George Gress's freezing place--or his meat store. I think his building is still there. It used to be a tavern and stuff in there or something. And I don't know if any of my other relatives—their other farms remain. He tried to point them out with me, but they are difficult now today. Bauman: And so then after 1943, where did your family go then? Sloppy: My parents moved in to the Finley area, which with all the mail stuff we did with the Kennewick routes, rural routes. That's still known as Sloppy's Corner out there in Finley, informally. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: [LAUGHTER] And so did you sorta then spend the rest of your youth there in that area? Sloppy: Until I was in junior high. And then we moved to what was called the Richland Y. The address was Kennewick, but it's now in the city limits of Richland. The house that my mother and father had there is still there. My sister actually lives there and a brother. At that time it was a Kennewick address, and now it's a Richland address. Bauman: And so then after that, where did you go? Sloppy: Well, I went into the--was drafted into the Army, and my parents and younger siblings were there and my older sister some. And then when I got out of the Army the first time, I came back there, and I lived there for a couple years also. Until I went back into the Army. I worked for General Electric for a couple of years. And I got hit by a reduction in force type thing. And my last day was a Friday in November of '57. I don't know the exact date. Tuesday I went down and reenlisted in the Army. [LAUGHTER] It was wintertime, and construction work was scarce, and I was young and single. So I left Finley then. Bauman: So this was in the 1950s, you said? Sloppy: That would have been 1957, November of '57. Bauman: November of '57. Sloppy: I went back in the Army. Bauman: And so what sort of work was it at Hanford, construction? Sloppy: No, it was for General Electric. I think it was 100H I worked at, from late '54, early '55 to '57. Bauman: And what sort of work at 100H, was it? Sloppy: It was labor truck driving, I think, for General Electric. Bauman: And how was that experience? What did you think of working at Hanford? Sloppy: It was a good job for me at the time being single, like I said, living at home. Bauman: And then you said you went back into the Army. Sloppy: Yes. Bauman: And at some point came back here? Sloppy: Well, I didn't actually--I came back to Kennewick, but that wasn’t ‘til 1986. [LAUGHTER] Because I spent 30 years in the Army. Bauman: Is there anything about your time growing up in this area that you haven't talked about yet or you think would be important to share or important for the people to know about? Sloppy: Well, no, like I said, I attended Kennewick schools, even though the addresses at that time was a Kennewick address, even though it's currently a Richland address. No, it was a normal growing up with a bunch of brothers and sisters, only two sisters, but a bunch of brothers. And it was a typical [INAUDIBLE] for them. Bauman: I just want to go back to 1943. Did your parents ever talk about having to give up their land afterwards, later? Sloppy: They naturally had some heartburn, and I don't think anybody that lived during that time, if they were adults anyway, ever voted Democrat again--boy that--since Roosevelt was the one that did it. And they probably felt that even though in my case, it would have been maybe the bank giving your land back, especially since they never did anything with that land. Now my grandpa's is probably all residential or even business because that would have been probably closer to where the hospital is now in that area. So that was all used for something. But my father's and the bank's area wasn't. My uncle's and aunt's area is still all weeds and things back against the sand hill there where the irrigation ditch ran down, where the irrigation ran down. One of my cousin's--or a couple of my cousins was here a couple of years ago, and I was able to take him real close to where it was, but there's no houses or anything. There's one house back in there now. It’d be off to the right. And most people felt that way about it. Like I say, my grandfather sued them. And it don't take a long if there’s a lawsuit. But it did get them a little bit more for the land area. Bauman: Well, I want to thank you for coming in today and sharing your memories and stories. I appreciate it. Sloppy: Well, now, I don't know how much this helps you, but-- Bauman: It’s great. All right. Thanks very much. Sloppy: You wouldn't know where I'd get a copy of that book, do you? [LAUGHTER] Woman off-screen: You know, it's really hard to find. I've seen it at used books. Location The location of the interview Washington State University - Tri Cities Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:33:40 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 200 kbps Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1932-2014 Names Mentioned Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community. Long, Augustus Gress, George Parker, Martha Berry Ling, Edith M. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with LaVerne Sloppy Description An account of the resource An interview with LaVerne Sloppy conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-7-22 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-06-28: Metadata v1 created – [RG] Subject The topic of the resource Hanford (Wash.) Richland (Wash.) Richland (Wash.). Public Schools General Electric Housing Richland (Wash.) https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Ffe043af3846776e389ff8a8681a88431.jpg 1d9746b2f7feed8074166fc471965977 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F36e58cb630d8fbdedc6ee21db97c8258.mp4 06e803929dbc9370d6cde92f8b1e162e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pre-1943 Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Description An account of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Northwest Public Television | Kaas_Gordon </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Robert Bauman: So just for official purposes, my name is Robert Bauman and I'm conducting an oral history interview with Mr. Gordon Kaas. Is it Kaas? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Gordon Kaas: Yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Okay. On June 12, 2013. And the interviews are being conducted on the campus of Washington State University Tri-Cities. And I'll be talking with Mr. Kaas about his family's history and memories about their experiences in Richland growing up in that community. So maybe, Mr. Kaas, you can tell me, first of all, a little bit about your family and maybe how your family came to the Richland area. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well my father was an immigrant from Denmark and he came here right after the turn of century. Lived in Madras, Oregon for a while and his brother was up here in Richland. He come up here and he was a farmer. He bought some ground here in what's North Richland and planted the majority of the acreage to apples. His brother took care of the orchard for about the first three years while he lived in Madras, Oregon. That's where he met my mother and they were married. And they moved up here I think it was 1915, after the orchard began to bear. My oldest brother was born in Madras, and then I've got two older brothers, Nelson and George, that were born here, plus my only sister, and then myself and my twin brother. The three older brothers are deceased now but my sister and my twin brother are still living. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: And do they live in the area here? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: My sister lives in Kennewick. That's Alice Chapman, her husband James, live in Kennewick. And my twin brother and I married sisters, but they live in Kenai, Alaska. And he was a plumber. When I got out of high school, we had moved to Kennewick in 1943, because the government said to pack your belongings and go, you've got 30 days. However, we lived far enough north that they gave permission for those that lived up on from here, there's a little rise in the contour, that area they let farm their crop that year. So instead of moving in February or March, we didn't move until November of 1943. That's where the remaining five of the six children were born. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: So you'd mentioned your father came from Denmark. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: I wonder if you could talk a little bit about what you know about why he came to the United States, and maybe the same for your mother. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, my mother was an immigrant also, emigrated from Prince Edward Island, Canada. And I had the pleasure of visiting back there this past summer. First time I'd ever been there. My father came over because of the opportunities that were in the US, and there was a lot of people moving to the New World. His background was farming. I think I mentioned he was the youngest of 12 children, and two brothers and a sister had immigrated over here ahead of him. So he had a little forewarning of what was here. And at that time, this area here in Hanford and White Bluffs was a fairly new irrigation area and was attracting people from around the country, and around the world, I guess you could say. Because there was other Danes and Norwegians and Swedes here. When I was small, when I grew up, we had an apple orchard. But during the Depression in the ‘30s, apples was one thing that people didn't have to have and consequently, the market went away. And at that time, peppermint was coming in and he hired a county bulldozer to come in and bulldoze the trees out and planted peppermint. And raised peppermint, as long as we was on the farm. I should clarify that in 1949 I lost my father, and I and my twin brother were between our sophomore and junior year in high school, so we became the farmers. And that was after we had moved from Richland to Kennewick. We had a 40 acre farm here in Richland and the war took my three oldest brothers. My father had the option of keeping one of them at home to help on the farm, but he wouldn't do that. My sister, and my twin brother and myself became farmers fairly quick. And then we moved to Kennewick in 1943, and in 1948 he had come down with cancer. And in '49, he passed away in the middle of August of '49. By that time my twin brother and I was the only ones still in school and we became students and farmers both. And then after we graduated from high school, my mother leased the place out. And I ended up taking a job out in Hanford. I worked out there for 21 years, but never got the thought of the farm out of my head. In 1972 my wife and I and we had two children at that time, a son and a daughter. And we bought a farm six miles north of Pasco. And that's been our home ever since. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: So you returned to your farming roots? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Yeah. What about your mother? You said your father passed away, unfortunately, in 1949. How about your mother? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: My mother lived for some years later. I think she died in-- I can't remember the date on it like I can my father—but in the mid '70s. I think it was '78 that she passed away. And at that time the farm was being sold for plots for houses, and now it's all houses. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: So how many so how many children were there in your family then? How many siblings did you have? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: There were six. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Six, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: I had three older brothers. Then my sister come along. And then to finish out the six was my twin brother and I. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: You and your twin brother. And you and your twin brother were born in hospital? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: We were the only ones that were born in the hospital. Because thought there might be some complications. So we were born in the Pasco Lady of Lourdes Hospital. The rest were all at home. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: And you talked about how the primary crop was apples for quite a while until at some point in the Depression you shifted to peppermint. Is that right? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: And were there other crops that you grew as well? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, we had of course, alfalfa because we had a few livestock. We had asparagus. And that was up early and that was the asparagus fields. My three older brothers were in the service. Two of them in the Army and one in the Navy. We'd get up early and go cut asparagus. And when we were left on our farm through the summer we'd see everything booming out here, trucks going by. We lived right on George Washington Way. And we'd be out in the field and watching the trucks headed north where the construction was going on. And we had strawberries. We had a few potatoes. Then, of course, peppermint. And all that ground was real irrigated. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: How was that irrigated? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Real irrigated where you had corrugates that the water ran down. And so I was changing water twice a day. And my father worked from daybreak to dawn. But as time went on, we were more help. After the military took my three brothers my dad bought a tractor. And he didn't like the tractor. He liked the horses. So my twin brother and I, we got a lot of practice on the tractor. He put us out on the field and get us started and he'd go do some other chores. We, my twin brother and I, we continued to farm the Kennewick farm. Which, was downsized. It was only 20 acres. At that time though, you could make a living on a farm that size. But I lost my oldest brother in the war. And the next oldest one was in the Army and over in Germany. And the third from the top was in the Navy and over in the Pacific. And after the war was over they came home and took jobs out at Hanford, my remaining two brothers. And when I finished school I got a job out there. And my brother worked out there. My twin brother worked out there on construction. I was a power operator. And in 1972 I'd been wanting to get out on a farm and I said, I got to make the move before I'm 40 or I'm going to give it up. And we found a place to buy. And it's been good to us. My main crop, it started off being alfalfa and wheat and sweet corn. But after a couple years I got into raising potatoes. And that ended up being our main crop until I quit farming. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Got it. Let me just go back and ask you another question, too, about your family farm that you grew up on. So were there other buildings besides the houses? The barn? Any other buildings? And you said it was 40 acres. Is that correct? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: 40. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: And so I wonder how large the house was? Were there any other buildings as well that were part of the farm? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, back then it didn't take as much a house as it does today. When my folks moved up here from Madras, Oregon--and I can't tell you--I think it was around 1917 or 1918. They had the ground but there was no buildings on it. But there was a small house. I think it was about a two-room house that my dad's brother and him moved from what would be over on--is that--what street is that? Over to the west? Anyway, they moved it from there to onto Georgia Washington Way where we lived. And then he added onto that. And then just before the government came in, we had enlarged the house and the next year was another project to finish it. But it started off being a two bedroom. And small ones at that. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Now, it was originally, was there an outhouse? What did you have? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: We didn't have neither electricity or running water in the house until--it was about 1940. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: So not too long before the war. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Yeah. And that was a big improvement. My mother didn't have to pack water for the washing machine or carry it out. But we didn't have any electricity. So the washing machine had a little gas engine on it. And like most, Monday was wash day. And that'd be all she'd get done except cooking some meals. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: So was there a well? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Yes, we had a well. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: That was before my time. But I remember that he had a nephew that came over from Denmark plus my uncle lived here and there was a hand-dug well. And that was on the property that is the Energy Northwest headquarters now. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Oh, okay. And what about neighbors? Who were your closest neighbors? Were there other families that you socialized with? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, yes. We had one neighbor that lived right across the road. And others close. I can say there was one, two, three--about five that lived in walking distance. You know, a 20-minute walk at the most. It was interesting. In the early spring of 1943 there was a number of cars that had come into town. And they were driving different places. It was late enough that some farmers were out in the field. The next day they were all in town at the schoolhouse. And they called to me and said that the whole community, including White Bluffs in Hanford was being evicted for a government project. And that's all they would say. Nobody knew what was ready going on out there until after the bombs were dropped. And it was interesting when those people that were here driving in cars were appraisers. And they were going around and appraising the farms of how much to give the farmers for it. Some got very nervous. They thought if you didn't take the first, they might just haul you out in handcuffs or whatever. But they allowed if you didn't accept for the third appraisal. My father accepted the third appraisal. My grandmother, she got nervous. And they got her to sign. I think it was on the second appraisal. But my father, if you didn't sign and take the third appraisal, then they would take it to court. But they give you, I think it was 80% of the offer. And there were a few that took it to court. But my father thought the--But the surprising part about that is the farmers that took the money and couldn't find a farm, the price of the farmland was going up so fast that what would buy a farm when they got the money, a year later was probably only half enough. So those people put a hardship on them. But I can't say our situation put a hardship. Because we was able to find a farm and it was a good form. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Do you have any idea how much your parents got for the farm? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: You know, I've been wondering that myself. But what I can tell you is that the 20 acre farm we got, it had a big house on it. It had a five-bedroom house plus porch, front and back. It was $7,200. And I'm sure it was in that neighborhood, maybe a little more. Because it was 40 acres rather than 20. And it was the only house still standing in North Richland until it too was torn down oh, 15, 20 years ago. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Oh, it stood for that long? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Yes, because the criteria was that if it had indoor plumbing and electricity they would save it if they could and somebody would move into it. And a patrolman that was hired by the--well, I guess it was GE back then. Or no, it was DuPont. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: DuPont? Mm-hm. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: He wanted that house. And he got the okay on it. But he would come by about every three or four days and see what the progress was of us moving out. He was anxious to move in. There was a shortage of homes. And it was used for living for a few years and then it was right in the middle of that big trailer camp that was out here. And it was turned into the office for the trailer camp. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: So he moved in shortly after your grandma left then? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Yes. When he could see the date that we was going to be out, he had his stuff packed and ready to move. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: And so how old are you at this time? About 9 or 10 years old? Somewhere in there? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: I was 12 years old when we moved. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: So we moved and we were still moving in November. Because that's when my birthday is. And I remember the time we took the tractor with a big trailer we had behind it with some of the last things. And my dad let me drive it after we got off the highway. I was 12 years old. And our farm, in Kennewick, the address was 3904 West Fourth Avenue now. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: So what did you think about this at the time as a young boy? You had spent your whole life, at that point, on this farm. And you're suddenly having to move. What did you think? And do you know what your parents thought? Did you talk to them? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, we spent a lot of time driving around to find a farm. We looked up a lot up Prosser Way. I can remember sitting out in the yard there for a couple of hours, my mother and dad talking. And there was a nice big house, older house. It was a little smaller farmer than we had gotten. They finally decided they would take it. And my dad went to the door and said, we've talked it over and we'd like to buy your farm. And they said, well, we're sorry. My husband's down at the court house signing papers on it now. So we were back to looking again. But you can imagine a 12-year-old. We thought this was kind of a thrill, driving around looking at farms and discussing it and where we was going to live. And I can remember several farms we looked at that some of them had a nice house. But the property wasn't the best. The soil wasn't the best. But we was happy when we settled on this one in Kennewick. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: So for you, maybe the fact that you ended up with a nice farm in Kennewick-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Yes, it was a nice farm. Kennewick is a little bit rocky. But it's bearable. The farm we had out here in Richland was a lot more sandy. But heavier soil, you can raise better crops. But sandy soil is easier to farm. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: So I want to go back to also talking about your early years here. Where did you go to school? And what was the school like? And how many? How big was the school? That sort of thing? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: The school I went to was built in--which was Lewis and Clark school down in south Richland. And the year I started there it was brand new. Because of the Depression there was money for stuff like that, to generate employment. And Hanford got a new school. And Richland got a new school. And that's where I started the first grade, my twin brother and I. My sister was four years ahead of us. So she was in an old school that they immediately tore down after the new school was built. But my dad was a well thought of man here in this area. And when the irrigation district was in, neighbors twisted his arm till he agreed to go on the board for irrigation. Same for the school district. He was on the board, directors there. In fact, he was the president of the board and signed a couple of my brothers' diplomas. And after we moved, well, some would know Jay Perry, who was a county commissioner in Kennewick. And he came and wanted my dad to run for his place. They talked quite a while. And my dad said, well, Jay, that would never work, because you're a Democrat and I'm a Republican. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: He said, I'd do anything to get you in. Whether you're a Republican or not. So that's the only way I knew of what his preference of party. But there was, for farmers back then, there was more done for the farmers than a lot of people. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: So do you know how big the school was? Do you know how many students there were about? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, it was an eight-room school, first through the eighth grade. And I would say, there was probably on the average of at least 20 in each class. Then when things got a little tougher, first, well, second grade and half of third was in one room. And the other half of third and the fourth grade was in another room. So they were small enough then that they could do that. But that school was tore down for the replacements that there are now. But it was a nice all-brick school that for old time's sake, I hated to see it go. But both of my children started in that school. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Oh, did they really? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: For first grade. Because we lived in the south end of Richland at that time. And our--what is the--the Justice over in Pasco, he went to that school. My son went with him. Cameron Mitchell. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Oh, Cameron Mitchell, sure. So what sorts of things did you do for recreational activities growing up on your farm? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Oh, main thing for recreational was work. But we did have time. And when we were little my dad didn't require us to--We never were slave labor by any stretch. But we'd roller skate out on the road. There wasn't very many cars. And we'd play hide and seek and one thing my dad let us do is a couple horse to an old sled that we had that was about four by six, to a horse. And take our dog and we'd go out hunting jackrabbits. Didn't have a gun. But that dog could catch the jackrabbits. And we'd probably get five or six every time we went out. They'd be just wandering out through the sagebrush. We was out at the edge of the farming community here in Richland. So there's plenty of sagebrush ground. And we thought that was great, to go out with the dog. My twin brother and I, and my three cousins from over on the coast would come here. I got a picture of it. Looking at it yesterday, that all five of us on that sled, out jackrabbit hunting. But just things like that. What kids do. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Sure. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Bicycles. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Oh. Yeah. So you were on a farm. Did you go into town much? Into the town of Richland? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, it was a five-mile drive on the school bus. Back then we didn't have these factory-made school buses. Generally a farmer would say, I'd like to build a bus and hire it to haul the students. Well, there was an aisle down the center that you sat back to back to and then down each side. And it was just made out of an old truck. And we didn't know what heaters were. Wintertime got pretty cold. But-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> [PHONE RINGS] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: No cellphones then, either. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Huh? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: No cellphones then either. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: I meant to take it out. But I forgot it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: That's all right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: I think I was in about the third grade when we got factory manufactured school buses. And they looked as long as a train. And there was three of them. And that picked up students all over the Richland area. And then it wasn't too long after that the government came in and the area just exploded. And it was surprising when you had to, how fast they could put buildings up. They had people in here. They added onto the school and built more schools. But after '43 I wasn't here much. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Did you start going to school in Kennewick then at that point? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Yes. I think I was in the fifth grade when we moved to Kennewick. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: I was wondering about sort of community activities. Do you have any memories of community picnics or 4th of July celebrations? Anything along those lines? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, yes. In that time, the boat races--that would be equivalent to what we have now here in the Tri-Cities—was up at White Bluffs. And I remember, several times being young, going up there and watch the boat races. And then there was community picnics. I remember looking at some books at the county fair, before they registered at the picnics, they had them. Found a couple where my folks, my dad registered as being at the picnic, 4th of July picnic, I think they were. Then there was plenty of family gatherings. Maybe two, three, four families would get together and go to the park. But I don't know, it never seemed like we lacked activity. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: What about churches? Were churches close by? Did your family go to church regularly? And where were they? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: What, church, you say? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Yeah, churches. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, my folks heard the Gospel by two homeless ministers in 1921. And the church met in a home. And I'm still in that faith today. We don't have church buildings. So there was churches in town. But they accepted that way and the family grew up in it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Okay. So you mentioned earlier, talking about the Depression, and how your father then sort of changed crops, right? Primary crops. Did you know of any families in the area that maybe lost their farms? Or did you see any other impact of the Depression for other families or for the town itself? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, my uncle lost his--that lived, oh, half mile or less from us. And I remember my dad saying he wanted him to financially help him. He was a bachelor. He had never married until he was 82, I think. And then he married his sweetheart that he had when he was young. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Wow. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: And neither one of them, they were married. They got back together in old age. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: That's quite a story. Wow. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: But anyway, my dad had to decline him because he said, Jim, I've got a family. And if I did that I would probably lose my farm too. And you're single. Realized I hate to say no. But I just don't have it where I can feel that I could do it. And there were others the same way. But you have to remember that I was-- that was not something I can physically remember. I was too early in the '30s. I was born in '32. I remember him talking about ones that sold out or it didn't have any equity and couldn't make payments. But my father was very frugal. He didn't buy what he couldn't afford, which was very little, that he bought. But yes, when my father decided to push out the orchard, we had a big enough orchard. In fact, it was the largest apple orchard in the Tri-Cities. I can't tell you how many acres it was. But it was 15 acres or so. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Do you know what kind of apples? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: At that time, Red Delicious. But he made the decision to take the apples out, because every year he'd be losing a little more money. And plant peppermint. Well, 100 pounds to the acre of peppermint oil was considered excellent. And I never remember him getting less than 100 pounds. And I remembered selling for $7 a pound. And today the price of oil isn't that much better. It's just that the farmers' farms are a lot bigger. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Mm-hm. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: I think, from what I've heard, I know some people that are farming peppermint and $9 or $10 I think would be an excellent price now. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: So what happened with your uncle then? He lost his farm you said? What did he do at that point? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: My uncle? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Mm-hm. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: He moved to Oregon. And lived in Troutdale for quite a while. I think he just hired out. He was a stonemason, brick mason. And I think he made a living at that. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: I want to ask you a little bit about, you talked about the war a little bit and that your older brothers all joined and went to serve. Do you remember hearing about the war? And have any memories about that at all? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Yeah, when the war come on, some time during that we got a radio. And I know my dad listened to the news every evening. My oldest brother, Edward, that was born in Oregon and was the only one that wasn't born here, was drafted into the Army. And he took his training down in one of the southern states. I can't remember for sure now if it was Texas, or--. Anyway, they ended up sending him to a little place by Washington, D.C. that they call Vint Hill Farms. And it was a training, a special training area. And he worked there as, we'd probably called it a cadre that helps do training. But there everything was coal fired. So in the wintertime they had to keep the furnace going and the hot water heater going and snow removal or whatever. And he never did go overseas. But he was on a laundry run. And he was riding in the back of a deuce and a half army truck. And a Lincoln hit the truck head on. And he was thrown up against the cab and killed. So he wasn't-- he didn't see overseas action. But I remember that was a sad day for the family. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: I imagine. You mentioned having the radio. Did your family get that before the war or at some point during the war, you remember? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: It was during the war. I don't remember. We didn't have a radio while we were still in Richland. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Oh, okay. You got it after you have moved to Kennewick at some point. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Okay. So how did you get news when you were in Richland? Was there a local newspaper? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Yeah, there was a newspaper. And don't ask me if it was daily or weekly or semi-weekly. But well, I guess, in the old days, we took the Spokesman Review. I don’t think--there wasn't a local newspaper. There might've been a weekly. But you're getting too far back in my brain. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] Yeah, do you know how your family found out about the war, that United States was going to war? Was it through the newspaper? Or sort of word of mouth? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, I think all the above. You know, neighbors were close and we did get the Spokesman Review. And I don't know if it was a day late. I think it came down on the train. So it could be the same day. At that time Pasco, its main industry was the train. A train town. And Richland was just a little farming community along with White Bluffs and Hanford. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Right. And then was it in the spring of '43 that you first heard about that the government was coming in and was going to be taking people-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Yes, yes. 1943. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: But your family, you have sort of the rest of that growing season. Is that right? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, it must've been later in February or maybe first part of March that that happened. I suppose there's some way I could find out. But I do know that the ones that lived in what we call downtown Richland didn't get to stay and farm their crop. And we did. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Yeah. I wonder if there's anything that we haven't talked about yet that you think would be important to talk about, something you know, about growing up in Richland, about the community itself, about farming? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, we had a great swimming pool, Columbia River. Also fishing. Never had a fancy fishing pole. But go down to the river and cut off a large willow, tie the line on the end of it. Works good. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] What sort of fish did you catch with that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Probably mostly carp. Occasionally we'd get an edible fish. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: But we enjoyed doing it. Some real hot days, the whole family would go to the river. Our firewood, you could put on what they call a boom out on the river. It'd be several logs fastened together with chain or cable. And have an anchor out on the upper end. So it would catch all the wood that was coming down. And that's where we got the firewood. And for the icebox, we'd go down and my dad would saw chunks of ice out of the river and we had a sawdust bin that we would bury the ice in there and it would last long ways into the summer. So things were a little bit crude back then. But none of us died from it. We all made it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Right. [LAUGHTER] What about in the winter? You know, in terms of the river, the river ever freeze over? What sorts of things did you do? Any things that you can say-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: All I can remember about that is that what I've been told. I think I was about two years old when it froze over. And they even drove cars across it. I don't think we had any bridges at that time. It was a ferry that would ferry cars across. And it seems like the winters don't get as cold as they used to here. I don't know if it's a cycle or what it is. But my younger years, we could ice skate on the river, most all winters. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Mm-hm. So that was something you did in the winter then for fun? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, I don't remember doing a whole lot. But you know, the river is dangerous, and we knew it back then, if the ice only goes out a small ways. So my folks wouldn't--I just know that my folks wouldn't have let us go to the river to ice skate if the ice wasn't thick enough. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: And you mentioned a ferry. Where was the ferry landing? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, there was the ferry landing down at what's Columbia Point, I think, now. And there was another one between Kennewick and Pasco. There was another one up at Hanford, one across. It would come and go as the need was. But I remember the first bridge across the Columbia was long enough ago that I can't really remember it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Okay. I want to ask you a little bit about your employment at Hanford. When did you start working at Hanford? And how long did you work there? And what sort of work did you do there? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, I graduated high school in 1951. And of course, we were still farming the ground. I did take a job in wheat harvest. And my brother stayed and did the chores that had to be done through the summer. And so my mother paid him what I made, the same amount that I made. So it was like both of us having a job. After wheat harvest was over in September of 1952--I think it was, yeah, 1952--I want out and applied for work at Hanford. And I got a job in the power department, running the steam boilers and turbines and that's out there. And I worked there for 14 years. It was all under GE then. I finished up in what was called the N Reactor. And that's when they built a steam power plant just across the fence from the N Reactor. And I applied for a job there with, at that time was the Washington Public Power. Now it's Energy Northwest. And I stayed there until '72 when I got the crazy idea of being a farmer again. And haven't really regretted it. You go from being carrying a dinner pail to being a businessman in one sense. It takes a lot of money to farm these days. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Man 1: Sorry, one last time. It looks like battery. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Man 2: Oh. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Man 1: Pretty low. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: You can prompt me on anything you want to. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: What's that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: You can prompt me. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Oh, okay. I'm going to ask you just a little bit more about you working at Hanford. You mentioned working for GE and at the N Reactor, and ask you where else at Hanford you worked? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: You asked me where I met my wife. I can give you a little more on that. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: There you go. And then I may ask you about I know President Kennedy had the official ceremony, right, in '63. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: And I'll ask you if you were there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: I was still working for GE. And it was Thursday morning. I had to work a swing shift that day. So I just stayed out there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: So you mentioned working for GE for a number of years. And then you said you ended up with you working at the N Reactor. I wonder before that, what other parts of the Hanford site you worked at? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, I started at the C Reactor in the power department. C. B and C were right together. Actually it was the B reactor. Then I got drafted in the army. And in December I went in the service to--they sent my back to Virginia for training. And when the training with over, took a troop ship to Korea. I spent two years in Korea. Part of the time I was first service. War was still on. And then after my two-year stay I came home and they put me back on out there. At that time I'd been communicating with my future wife. And my twin brother, he had a bad ear and they wouldn't accept him. Ironically we was going with sisters. But they weren't twins. And so they decided to get married. So they got a two-year head start on us when I came home. Well, my wife, Beverly, and I got married. And been married ever since. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: And how had the two of you met? When did you meet? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: We was in school together. And the same way with my brother and his wife. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: And so how many years is that now? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Boy, you're-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] I'm testing him. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Off camera speaker: It'll be 60 next year. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: That's-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Wow, almost 60. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: It's getting awful close to 60. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Yeah, wow. And so you mentioned you were in Korea for two years. And the war was still going on when you first arrived? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Yes. Yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: And what sorts of-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: I went in and they put me in the medics. And I took my medic training down in Camp Pickett, Virginia. And then sent me to Korea. I was a medic. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: And then one other thing I wanted to ask you about, during your time working at Hanford, President Kennedy was here in, I believe it was September of '63. August or September of '63 to dedicate the N reactor. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: I was wondering if you were there at that time and if you have memories of that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: I was. I was there. And witnessed his groundbreaking. He flew in in a helicopter and flew out in a helicopter. I think probably went up to Moses Lake, where they parked the plane. And it was interesting that I happened to be on the swing shift at that time. So when the ceremony was over I had to go over to the plant and start my shift. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Was there extra security that day? Or do you have any memories of a lot of people there? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Very much so. You know, that was just not long before he was assassinated. And there was a lot of security. There was three helicopters came in. And the doors opened on all three of them. They come to land, you didn't know which one he was on. But the first thing you seen was they pulled a machine gun up in the doorway. And they looked all directions before they left anybody off. And there was a big crowd there. That was very interesting. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Mm-hm. Were there any other events during your time when you worked at the Hanford site that sort of stand out? Any significant happenings or anything that sort of stands out in your memory? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: They formed a rescue crew out there. They outfitted an older bus. And I think there was about three or four different crews, maybe five. We never did get called to an event, like there's been several around the United States since. But that's what we were trained for. And I was on one of those crews because I'd been a medic in the army, was the reason they put me on there. We had drills. But never had to go to an actual event. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: And obviously Hanford was a place where security was very important. Did you do have to have a special clearance to work there? Or what do you remember about some security processes? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, yes. I had what they called a Q clearance, which was top clearance, with everybody that was full time employed. That the only ones that would get out there was if they had to have a special person, something broke down and had to go out there. And then he had to have an escort. And they told us that you don't talk about what work it is on the job. But at that time, Hanford wasn't classified top secret anymore. After the bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, that's when they found out what Hanford was building. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Were you able to drive your own car out to the site where you were working? Or would you have to take a bus? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Oh, we had to take an expensive bus ride. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: They charged us a nickel each way. And nobody could afford to drive their cars. If you did, you car pooled. But because the buses didn't have any air conditioning, just the windows. But as long as I worked for GE I rode the bus. When I started working for Washington Public Power we car pooled. They didn't have an option. But they paid us for travel time. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: And how long did you work for Washington Public Power then? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Seven years. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Seven years. '65 to '72? So anything else that I haven't asked you about, either about growing up on the farm here in Richland or about your work at Hanford that you'd like to talk about or you think is important that we haven't talked about yet? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Something serious? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Oh, either way. No, it can be funny. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, I remember when my twin brother and I was out and we had a watermelon patch. And we thought it was time to pick the watermelons. And we'd pick a whole pile of them. My dad said, well, those aren't ripe yet. We'll have to feed those to the pigs. So the pigs got watermelon early. But you know, we would--that's some of our pastime would be walk around the neighbors and such. There wasn't too many dull moments. Especially, my mother used to say that when you have twins, well, one can't think of the other kin. So I guess you can take from that what you want. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] Yeah. If you had to sort of sum up for someone who wouldn't know much about the area, what it was like growing up in the small community at the time, growing up on a farm at the time, what would you tell them? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Well, that there wasn't many dull moments. I think there's an advantage that kids today don't have. We grew up having responsibility to know that there might be a little time for play. But they're also work to be done. I can remember going out in the fields of whole peppermint and my dad would take two rows where my brother and I, we'd take one apiece and pull the weeds out. And we'd fill up a gallon jug of water. Had a burlap sack wrapped around it and dipped it in water before we went out. And that would keep cool. That was our drinking water. Had to come in in time for chores. We milked as many as five head of cows. But at the time my dad got sick we only had two milk cows. And a couple of horses and several young stock. And then there was 4H and FFA. That was after we moved to Kennewick. I can't remember much more about Richland, only being 12 years old and there's probably more. But I'll think about it after our interview is over. I remember riding the bus was quite a treat. When we got the new buses in Richland it was, as I said, I think I was in about the third grade. It was quite a treat. And they said there was heaters in them. But we couldn't tell when winter come. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] Didn't feel like it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: They weren't very efficient. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Bauman: Well, thank you very much. This has been really interesting, very informative. I appreciate it. You’ve been great. Thanks very much. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691"> Kaas: Have you interviewed others? </div> Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert Bauman Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Gordon Kaas Location The location of the interview Washington State University - Tri-Cities Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 01:02:57 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 232kbps Hanford Sites Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview N Reactor B Reactor C Reactor Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1915-2013 Years on Hanford Site Years on the Hanford Site, if any. 1952-1972 Names Mentioned Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community. Kaas, Nelson Kaas, George Kaas, Edward Chapman, Alice Perry, Jay Mitchell, Cameron Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Gordon Kaas Description An account of the resource An interview with Gordon Kaas conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-06-8: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.] Subject The topic of the resource Richland (Wash.) Pasco (Wash.) Kennewick (Wash.) Hanford Site (Wash.) White Bluffs (Wash.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 6/12/2013 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection. B Reactor C Reactor Hunting Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963 Kennewick (Wash.) N Reactor Pasco (Wash.) Richland (Wash.) swimming White Bluffs (Wash.) https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Ff428b88f5b77ccce1fd1fab7bbd4a97c.jpg 53ac2b07373133ea3a62bc18f062b9c6 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F59604beaf31c3557f1ecee91ad472fee.mp4 53f23bcda9dffb6be8f5472ee8bbb015 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pre-1943 Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Description An account of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert Bauman Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Herman Kilian Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Northwest Public Television | Kilian_Herman </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Laura Arata: Okay. Well, good morning. Thank you so much for coming. If I could have you start by just saying your name and then spelling your last name. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Herman Kilian: Herman Kilian, K-I-L-I-A-N. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Thank you. My name is Laura Arata. It is March 3, 2014, and we are conducting this interview on the campus of Washington State University Tri-Cities. So if we could just start out, I would love to have you tell me a little bit about how your family came to the White Bluffs area, and where they came from. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Okay. My family were German immigrants. Mr. Bruggemann, the Bruggemann Ranch out there by the weigh station there at the bridge, brought them over and paid their way for a year's work, for their room and their board and their way over here. You see, they came from Germany in 1927, and they were in such a bad recession. A pound of butter cost a hundred--cost 1,000 German marks for a pound of butter. And they were so poor they couldn't get married, so they got married and came to White Bluffs. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: And how long did they work on the Bruggemann Ranch, and when did they-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: They worked one year at the Bruggemann Ranch. Now, you can see the Bruggemann Ranch when you go over the Hanford Road to the bridge. It's right to the right. There's an old shack still out there. That's where they spent their first year of their life in the United States. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Do you know if they spoke any English when they came here? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: No, but they were smart. They learned it pretty quick. They--there isn't that much difference between English and German, a lot of it. You know, if you're smarter than me. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: So when did they acquire their own land? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Well, I think they--you see, most of the farms around there were, a lot of them, were under receivership. And so they bought a little five-acre tract. It was probably either the first or second year when they were here. My dad went to work for the railroad, and had a steady job, about $0.40 an hour. And, anyway, they bought this five-acre tract with a little house on it. They had to carry their water about a quarter of a mile from the house. We had no electricity until we moved to another house a few years later, but that's the way it was. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Did your family grow crops on that property? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Dad worked on the railroad, and mom was the farmer. And she grew-- we grew potatoes and carrots and everything that you eat, buy in the store for vegetables. We grew everything that we ate. All we bought was flour and spices. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: And at what year were you born? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: I was born 1931, right in the heart of the Depression. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: All right, and how many children were there in the family? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Oh, I think there were seven of us all together. My youngest brother was born in Sunnyside, but there were six of us in White Bluffs. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Do you have any memories of White Bluffs as a town or as a community at that time? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: I didn't understand the-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Did you travel to White Bluffs a lot? Do you remember as a town what it was like? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: I would like to give you a little idea of what--I went on a trip up the Columbia River on that Hanford-White Bluffs tour when we had our picnic time, and it kind of brought back memories. You see, White Bluffs was the Columbia River. It's just like Hanford. The Hanford Project took that area, because it was a unique spot, had lots of water and kind of isolated. But the Columbia River was a big heater. The earliest fruit that was picked in Washington was picked at White Bluffs. Because the Columbia River would heat—air always came in from the north and the east. And the Columbia River then heated up the air, so all of the fruit were planted along the Columbia River from Hanford over to Vernita, not quite to Vernita. But all the fruit was—it was never heated. They never used any smudge pots, because of the heat from the river and the White Bluffs. You see, the White Bluffs was a reflection from the sun because of its unique whiteness. I remember one year when I was about 12--11 years old, it was 130 degrees in the shade, the 4th of July. I helped my neighbor haul out apples, and it'd bake the apples on the tree, it was so hot. So White Bluffs was probably the warmest area in the state because of those bluffs. You know, the sun reflection off of the white sand. And when you're going up this river, you get to the bend in White Bluffs, you will see an area out there that's got a whole lot of green vegetation on the water, grass, stuff. That would be a sandbar in July. But, you see, when they put the dams in, they regulated the water, so that the river was high enough, where it would always cover the sandbar, if you get the picture, okay? And the Indians would use the sandbar and catch salmon out there on the sandbar. That kind of brought memories back to me. Then when you look over to the left—if you want to take a trip up that Colombia just for the fun of it, if they have one. But there's a bluff up on top, which was a road. And that road was covered with six inches of water or more in 1937 or 1938, had that big flood. But you can imagine how much water came down there. Anyway, I remember I was in the back of the bus when the bus driver said maybe he was going to go through there. He got scared and turned around. We turned around in the water you know, because it so high. But history can do--you can find out in history just exactly what year that was. There was so much snow that we made forts in the school, and we had snowball fights. And anyway, it was a big snow year. And 10 years later it happened again when Vanport was flooded out down in Portland, when the roads in the Tri-Cities were underwater along the river. And it was a lot of water came down the Columbia once in a while. I'm not sure what happens now. I think they regulate it pretty well with the dams. Then you get around to the bend of the road, there's a big house up on the hill that they left there. It's the only house that's left in White Bluffs, that's the Heideman house. And he will tell you that. And that was a big mansion. I remember going to that Heideman house when I was a kid. She had all the state-of-the-art furniture, all of the big chairs and high stuff, everything. It was quite a sight. But Heideman went broke during the Depression and he lost--anyway, he went plumb broke, anyway. But that's the way it was. And then, you see, there was four farmers that was left in White Bluffs when Hanford came in. There was Mr. Fanning. Mr. Fanning had a pretty good-sized farm, probably 100 acres. And he had dairy cattle, and milk cows and then he grew white rose potatoes. And the government bought his potatoes and his milk for the army. They were left in there. And then there was Clark, there was Pat Clark. And then another guy, I forgot his name is. Then Skelton. There were four of them that stayed in there for two years and raised fruit for the army. Okay, if you know what I mean. And anyway, they came out of there pretty well off. The government paid them pretty well. That's the story of the Columbia River. Because White Bluffs was the Columbia River, because that was the heat and the water. That's why the government took that spot because of the big river and the cooling capacity that it had. And other than that, I don't know a whole lot more about what happened. If you want to ask me a question or two, I'll try to answer it. But the Columbia--that sandbar was quite a attraction, because the Indians came there, like I said, and then the carnivals came down. Not the carnival, but with the monkeys--the zoo. Is that what you call it? A zoo? Anyway, they set up down there, and of course it was a good spot. It had lots of water to feed the animals with. But it was quite an attraction for-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: It was like a traveling circus? Something like that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Anyway, I was in the sixth grade when we know left White Bluffs. Sixth grade, And I was 12 years old. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Do you have any particular memory-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: The one thing that was kind of--the sheep men liked White Bluffs. There was four different--well, let's see, Simon Martinez moved in there about the mid '30s. Simon Martinez now has got the only band of sheep in Washington that's commercial. But he got his start there at White Bluffs. They didn't irrigate too much, but in the spring if the year there were lots cheatgrass, and they lots of food. We actually fattened up the lambs just on grazing on the cheatgrass stuff that grew out there. So it was--being warm and whatnot, why, it was good to the lamb. So that was a good spot for the sheep men. The one thing that I remember about White Bluffs as a kid is there were some little blue lilies that grew out on the--there were some hills out there that were still desert. It was too high. They couldn't get water to it. But we'd walk around out there, and they'd find these little lilies out there. They're little blue lilies. [LAUGHTER] That was our spring work. As soon as the snow got off, got warm, these lilies would come up. Anyway, that was a-- Other than that, why, most of us was poor. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Well, White Bluff's--obviously it's an agricultural community. Do you have any memories of the town itself and some of the businesses? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Well, we--I worked with my mom. My mom was the farmer. And we grew potatoes and carrots and rutabagas. We had a root cellar, and we filled that up. Well, a root cellar was--they take these railroad ties and make a—then we'd cover it up with dirt. And it was actually always warm in there, in the root cellar. It was underground, and we'd go down and we'd--when I’d get home from school, why, we would top carrots and rutabagas, and put them down in the root cellar. Dad worked on the railroad, so we did everything, basically, in the evening. And the Indians came over a few times. That was quite a sight to see old Johnny Buck. I still remember Johnny Buck sitting on his big, old Pinto horse with his tomahawk stuck in his saddle. He looked kind of mean to me as a kid. [LAUGHTER] I was about ten, eleven years old. But evidently mom gave him some food, some potatoes and carrots and stuff. And he'd come back once in a while and get some stuff. But, anyway, I remember Johnny Buck, the Yakima chief. Anyway. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Can you tell me a little bit about going to school, what school was like? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: My school? There was--well, it was just a three-story, I think it was, anyway, a three-story school building. They had--we had basically three grades in one room. Only--a teacher for every three grades. So there was probably somewheres around six or seven of us in a grade. Mrs. Moody was my first teacher, and then Mrs. Reisenauer was my second one. But then we moved. The high school, evidently, burned down the last year before we left there. And so the high school all went to Hanford. And they were getting ready to build a new school, and, of course, the government said to move out, so we moved out. Which, when looking back, you know, why it was a good deal for our country that we did. They took our area. It was kind of sad at the time, but, you know, when you look back and see what good was accomplished, why, it was worthwhile. My dad went back a few times to Fanning's place and cut his—we had a little tractor with a mower on it, and he went back to Fanning's and cut his hay a couple of times. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: So now, you talked a little bit about some snowball fights and forts and things. Do you have any other particular memories of school? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Well, there were just--it got pretty mean, you know? I mean, the big guys would start throwing at us little kids, why, [LAUGHTER] it hurt a little bit. [LAUGHTER] And you can look in the records and see just when that was, that year, okay? But it was in the late '30s. 'Cause I was in school, and I was born in '31, and it had to have been six or seven or eight years later, you know, whatever. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Do you remember any sorts of community social events that ever happened? I know you mentioned the 4th of July. Was there ever a picnic? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Fourth of July was a— </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Oops. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: I don't know why. They are plugged in. Did this come on? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: We'll get you hooked back up. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Okay. Fourth of July was--the later years was quite an event. We had a gentleman who belonged to our church that delivered our fuel--gas man, Mr. Swiezel. But he, evidently, made enough money and whatnot where he would buy a whole gob of firecrackers and stuff. And so we-- at least for two years, maybe three, that I remember Mr. Swiezel buying these--I remember when I was a kid, I dropped a fire-- I had a fire cracker land under my feet, and I dropped one down on there, and I was in the middle of a fire cracker cracking. But they were little ones, they didn't hurt anything. [LAUGHTER] The last event that we had was in '42, and they tried to burn down the town of Hanford. That's where he lived. They had a raze-fire out there with the wind a-blowing. [LAUGHTER]. Anyway, by the 4th of July the cheatgrass was all dried up. What the sheep didn't eat was pretty vulnerable. It burned pretty good. [LAUGHTER] Anyway, it was fun growing up in that little community. You know, you knew everybody. But it was also a little bit--I never did know where everybody lived. There wasn't very much, because I just went to church with my dad in the car. And one time I remember driving around the river, and he showed me where these orchards were, where they lived. But other that we were pretty much in our own little communities there. And they talk about a ferry that went from the White Bluffs to the islands. They grew produce out on the islands. I'm not sure if the Japanese did it, or what it was. Anyway, they grew some produce on that island. But I never did see the ferry. I'll have no clue where the ferry is, so you'll have to look on the map and see where that is. Anyway, the flood of '37 was quite a deal. I helped my neighbor yard out apples for a couple of years. That seems kind of strange, you're 10 years old or other, hauling out apples, but we had to work in those days. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Can you tell me a little more about church? Did your whole family attend? Did your whole family attend church? Was that a pretty regular activity? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Well, we went to a Lutheran church, in a Lutheran church. And there was a Presbyterian church in White Bluffs, and a Catholic church, I think. And then a Pentecostal church came in about the mid-30s. I remember Mr. Ham was one of the--there were two Ham boys that I remember. The one died of--got cancer, and the other boy was a big, tough kid. And he tried to get a cart off of the railroad track, and he didn't make it. A train hit him and killed him. But Alan was his name. But, anyway, my life was Dad working on the railroad and us farming. And I milked cows. When I was 12--six years old I started milking cows. [LAUGHTER] Oh, so that was how it was. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Do you know if your parents belonged to the Grange or any other? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: The Lutheran church didn't believe in the grange and lodges, okay? But they had a Grange Hall there. Mr. Fanning was the head honcho there at the Grange. We had a neighbor, Win Shaw, that had the apples that we worked in and he loaned dad his machinery and his horses to farm with when he came there. So Win Shaw was a vital part of our life, because we wouldn't have made it without him, I don't think. And my little and my little brother was named after him--Winfield and Juelette. [LAUGHS] Winfield and Juelette Shaw. Named after Win and Juelette. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Could you talk a little bit about when your family had to leave White Bluffs? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: What we did, what? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: When you had leave, do you remember-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: When I had to leave White Bluff? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Yeah, what that was like. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Well, we got a truck and loaded up the sheep, and loaded everything that we owned on it, and came to White Bluffs--or came to Sunnyside, which wasn't a bad move. I mean, that didn't hurt us any. You know, life in Sunnyside was probably better than Hanford and White Bluffs. I mean, there was more opportunities. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Do you recall at all, you were 11 or 12 when you moved-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: I was 12 when we left there, yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Did you remember any of, like, getting the letter in the mail telling you you had to leave, or any of that process? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: No, I don't recall too much about what happened. They offered Dad a job on the railroad over there, but he didn't want to do it, so we didn't stay there. But Dad was a good--Dad was probably the toughest guy in the country. At least over there. [LAUGHTER] He was a strong boy. I mean, he could things that most them guys couldn't. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: What did your family do once you move to Sunnyside? What did you do once you moved to Sunnyside? Were you still-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Well, we had a little farm. We had a--we was right on the edge of the north side of Sunnyside where the Sunnyside canal came around. And we were out there in the sagebrush with the rattlesnakes. [LAUGHTER] We had--I don't remember any rattlesnakes in White Bluffs. Maybe there were, but we never encountered them. But in Sunnyside, really we killed 20 or 30 the first year. The darn things would come down and get in the water. [LAUGHTER] Anyway. But we had to get rid of our sheep, because it was pretty dangerous out there herding the sheep out there in the sagebrush with the rattlesnakes. Oh, we just decided well, we didn't bunch of sheep. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Is there anything I haven't asked you about that you'd like to share? Any other memories? Is there anything I haven't asked you that you'd like to share that stands out? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: No. I can say the main thing I remember about White Bluffs is that big Columbia River, you know. And that Bruggemann Ranch where Mom and Dad came. And the Heideman house where--well, they worked with Heideman for a year. So, I mean, it was those kind of thing. And then the sheep. I've got one story I want to tell you about sheep, okay? This is a story about our sheep dog. Mrs. Hoferer gave mom a shepherd of some kind. It wasn't a--it was a good--he was a young pup. And he was a good sheep dog. Anyway, about a year later Mrs. Hoferer evidently lost her dog. And so she came over and took our Teddy back home. This was in the spring. And by the summertime, Teddy came back home. All he had left on him--she'd completely shaved him so he could run without getting to hot I guess. I don't know. But, anyway, except for around his neck. And we never thought no more about it. Anyway, Hoferer left Hanford in the fall of '40, '42. And we moved to Sunnyside in about August. In '43, why, here come this dog. And I was out working in the produce stuff, and here come this dog. And he was always a mangy looking mutt. I mean, you can imagine. He probably ran around out there for a year, or six, eight months, anyway. He didn't like Mrs. Hoferer very well, let's put it that way. Whatever she did with him, I don't know, but I went home and I said, Mom, Teddy's out here. And I says, Teddy. He wagged his tail and come up to me. And so we found the dog, again. He found us in Sunnyside. Came all the way over that over there to get here. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Did you keep him after that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: That's a fact. That was Teddy. And he lived for about another ten years. Course he was a big dog, and he liked to fight, and we had two females. And he got tore up so bad that one day he came home with his eye hanging out, so I had to put him to sleep. But, anyway, that's my story of Teddy. That was probably the one that I remember the best, you know, my dog. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: I got a note. I'm supposed to ask you about the boat races. Do you have any memories of the boat races at White Bluffs? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Boat races? I don't think they had them early, did they? When are they supposed to have had them? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Woman: In the '30s and '40s. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: When were the boat races? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Woman: Sometime in the summer in the 1930s and 1940s. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: I'm told the 1930s and '40s. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: In the 1930s there was some boat races? Well, I don't know of any. Of course, my dad wasn't-- our folks wasn't interested in that kind of stuff. A lot of things I didn't do. Like I said, I never got to the east side of town. I don't know who lived out there. I knew who lived out there, but I don't know where. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: We'll, is there anything else that you think it's important for students, who, maybe don't know about White Bluffs to know about what happened there before it was closed down? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Well, not really. I think, basically, White Bluffs was an agricultural community, and some made it and some didn't. It was a Depression time. I mean, it wasn't any different than Sunnyside. People came out from the Midwest. We fed people that came out here from the Midwest, with nothing after the drought and everything that they had. We just kind of raised crops and puddled around in our own way. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Okay. Is there anything else you'd like to tell me about Hanford? Any of your responses to, kind of, the end of World War II when you found out what was going on there? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Well, Hanford was a bad word for Sunnyside people. I mean, for white-blooded people. [LAUGHTER] Whatever. Well, it really wasn't. I mean, at the time were just one community. But I didn't know the kids that went to school at Hanford. Because that was, oh heck, it was 7 miles away. [LAUGHTER] You didn't get very far very fast. We were lucky our old car ran. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Do you recall how you felt when you learned what they were making at Hanford at the end of World War II? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Well. There was kind of a--it didn't bother me any too much. I mean, I didn't--it would have been a little bit easier if they had told us what was going on, but it was such a military secret that, they didn't--I don't know whether the workers that worked out there knew what they were working on. They just built stuff and that was their job. But what was going on was kind of a military secret. They didn't want somebody shooting bombs over to blow the place up, I think. It was kind of a hush-hush operation. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Great. Well, that is all my questions. Is there anything else that you'd like to be included? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Well, you know, when you're six years old, you don't know a whole lot, you know? That's all I remember. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: That's great. Well, I want to thank you so much for coming and sharing your memories with us. I really appreciate you being here and sharing all these stories. I'm out of questions. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: You're out of questions. Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: Are we stay on time? Is that-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Did I talk too-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: I don't want her yelling at me. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: Did I talk too much? My wife-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: No. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: My wife says I talk too much. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Arata: That was wonderful. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX115576974"> Kilian: I've got a-- I'm dyslexic, I can remember everything, but I can't read. [LAUGHTER] Yeah, I have a hard time reading, but I could remember everything that I heard. [LAUGHTER] So, I mean, I don't forget the-- </div> Location The location of the interview Washington State University - Tri-Cities Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:34:13 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 194 kbps Names Mentioned Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community. Clark, Pat Martinez, Simon Buck, Johnny Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Herman Kilian Description An account of the resource An interview with Herman Kilian conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 3/3/2014 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-07-21: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.] Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection. Subject The topic of the resource White Bluffs (Wash.) White Bluffs (Wash.) https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fe492c807fcb72ea484f1a3f609650c6a.jpg 01677cd59b210bb62fc34da468aef790 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fe80189acb0a6011ff60f71ddfc211623.mp4 e14a584a638ed796407bd0d8a1c20f21 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pre-1943 Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Description An account of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert Bauman Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jean Johnson Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Northwest Public Television | Johnson_Jean </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Robert Bauman: All right. Ready to get started? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Jean Johnson: Mm-hmm. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Okay. We'll start by having you state your name. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Well, my name--the name that people from White Bluffs will remember is Carrie Jean Conning. That was my name there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Right. Your name now is Jean Johnson? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Yes. I left the Carrie off. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Okay. Great. And my name is Robert Bauman, and we're doing this interview on July 31, 2013, at Jean Johnson's home. And so I want to start our interview by just asking you to tell me a little bit about your family. If you know when they came to White Bluffs, how and why they came there, and when. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: When my father was Leslie Andrew Conning. Known in White Bluffs as Andy. Andy Conning. He came from Pennsylvania. Somewhere here in the West and came up the river and landed in White Bluffs in 106. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: And do you know why he came to White Bluffs? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: He was kind of an orphan when he was born. His mother died with birth. And his grandmother and father raised him, and they couldn't take care of him, so an uncle took him. And his name was Andrew somebody else. Had sheep. And he wanted my dad to come back, come there into Colorado, or in the White Bluffs area and have sheep. Don't know if he ever did. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: And so that's why he came to White Bluffs. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Mm-hmm. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: And how about your mother? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: My mother came from South Dakota. They went to Yakima. I don't know why. And then they went from Yakima to White Bluffs in 1912. She married my dad in 1918. And he had four--they had four children. I have three older brothers, then myself. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: And so your parents met in White Bluffs, then? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Yes. They were neighbors. Because her name was Johnson, also. She came in there as Irma Johnson. And then she married Codding. That's what people are confusing when they say, what was your mother's maiden name? Johnson. [LAUGHTER] So, then I went to work right from graduation to The Republic newspaper in Yakima. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: In Yakima, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: And I worked there--I was only, I think I was maybe 17. I was going to say 16, because I did graduate a year earlier in my age than I should have. And I could only work so many hours, because that was during the war. '43 I graduated from Yakima High School. And I had to sign a paper for a Social Security number. I never had had one before. So then that's when I took off the Carrie and just put Jean Conning. And then, of course, as soon as I got married, I had to do it again. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] I wonder if you could talk a little bit about where you grew up in White Bluffs. Your family farm, what that was like, what sort of crops you grew, that sort of thing. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: He grew--my father had apples. And we lived right next to the Columbia River, and we had a water pump. And used to pump our water out of the river to irrigate. And then we had--he had just a home. Little bunch of fruit trees. Peaches and pears and cherries. And every—lot of people would come and pick them and can them, and my mother would can them. And they worked—they irrigated with the pipe and plugs. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: What kind of pipes, do you know what that pipe was? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Wooden. Wooden pipe. And they had a cement--I don't even remember what they call it. But the water came from the river, and stayed in there, and then the pipes would drain off to put water in the field. And then the war came. And I was still in school, because I started--I was born in 1925. So he lost that place and had to move to another place. And the boys were all in the service by then. And he worked it by himself. And worked himself down. He got sick. But we stayed in White Bluffs. And then the cars were going through with the US government, so we knew something was going to happen. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about the farm that you grew up on. Were there other buildings that you had? Was there like a storage--a warehouse for storing some of the fruit, or any other sort of buildings? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Not then. We had a barn, because we had a milk cow, and two horses. The horses used to pull the spray wagon. And then in later years, they put a pipe out for them, to hold a spray. So they could just hook up and spray. And they were spraying that lime and sulfur, something like that. It was very--after everybody was gone, I heard how dangerous that was. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: And was that for insects? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Mm-hmm, worms. The worms were eating him up. And nothing would stop them, since I told you before, they didn't come with DDT until after the war started, which was too late for him. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Did you have electricity on your farm? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Uh-huh. And my mother had an electric stove and an electric washing machine. But it was just a small little house. And the school bus would not pick me up, because I lived within three miles of the school. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: So you walked to school? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: So I had to walk to school. And there were three other girls there, who all four of us had to walk to school, carrying our lunch buckets and our books. And no fear. You know, every place we went, we walked. We had no fear. We knew everybody. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Do you remember the names of any those girls that you used to walk to school with? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Yvonne Ponsat was one. P-O-N-S-A-T. Her father was French. And she had two brothers who were in high school with my brothers. Another one was Elizabeth Keele. I don't know what he does. He's around Yakima somewhere. He's probably gone by now, too. The other girl, I can't remember her name, because she had moved there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: So when walking to school, was that elementary school and high school, or? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: High school. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: High School. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Yeah, the school bus would take us to grade school, but not to high school. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: The high school was closer to you. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: And it was just across one field, but we walked over and went down and walked down the road. And then eventually we all got bicycles. But the bicycles were--we were almost grown by the time we could afford a bicycle. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] Must have been a little tricky walking sometimes in the winter. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: There were no winters there. We lived so close to the river, it was warm all winter. I don't remember any snow. No snowmen, no snow fights, no icy roads. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: And did you have telephone at your house? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Oh, yes. With the ringer, you know-- "number please!" [LAUGHTER] You remember them? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] I remember the dial phones. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Oh yeah. Well, this was just a telephone operator. And we also had RFD. We also had mail service. So it wasn't too remote. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: So how far from the town were you? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Well, they said I lived within three miles. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: And that was the limit for school was three miles from town. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Do you remember any of your teachers from school at all? From either grade school or high school? Did you have any favorite teachers or ones that you remember at all? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Well, those pictures reminded me. I did not remember them, yes, but I do now. And another thing, too. My father was the clerk of the school board. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Oh, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: So he got to have all the interviews of all the people who came that wanted a job of teaching. And my youngest brother and I would sneak around and try and get a good look at them before any of the school kids did. We wanted to know who they were first. [LAUGHTER] My other two brothers had graduated from high school by then, but my younger brother and I went to school as close together as four years could do it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Mm-hm. Were your parents involved in any other organizations at all in the community? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Well, just my dad was a Mason, and my mother was Eastern Star. And that was all of their--they did not go to church. And we had eight churches in White Bluffs, and they were all active. No, there were six! Six. I'm too far. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: What about the town itself? What sorts of businesses do you remember, or stores, or anything like that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Mm-hm. You want to bring that in, Leslie? It's out there. I didn't bring the right one. It's a tablet. Just seeing that picture reminded me of a lot of their names. Okay, the grocery store was the first scene. His name was Dick Reirson. R-E-I-R-S-O-N. And then we had a drugstore, but it was a pharmacy. And he had an ice cream table. And he had a distorted hand, and he used to put the ice cream cone down in there, you know, with the little top, and then reach down. Remember those cans that had the ice cream in it? Good old hard ice cream put in there, and never drop a drop. He was also the band leader for the high school music. And then there was the power company, and I could not remember the lady's name. They had Pacific Power there. And he had a Ford dealer with a service company. That was Fred Gillhualy. G-I-L-L-H-U-A-L-Y. And they were four boys. And I don't know if they're around Yakima or gone by now. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Yeah, I'm not sure. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: I know the name because one boy said he was flying home from California to Yakima, and they were taking—so many people had to get off the airplane, but he got to ride all the way to Yakima. Went to get off the plane, the little stewardess said, how do you pronounce your last name? [LAUGHTER] They couldn't tell him to get off the airplane because they couldn't pronounce his name! So that was good. And Levi Austin was the superintendent at the high school. And the Austin name is from Prosser. The one boy, he had a hardware store in Prosser. But I keep thinking, you know, they're still there, but I'm just lucky to live as long as I have. Because they were probably--they were in my brother's age. And see in there, everybody's gone. So I don't remember any teachers. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: I remember--well, I don't remember the principal, but I remember the principal of the high school took us all in the next morning after Pearl Harbor, and told us that they had bombed Pearl Harbor. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Is that how you found out about it? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: World War II, yes. Because remember Roosevelt? Franklin Roosevelt? "This day will be known in infamy." Well, I heard that. Course, it never went away. And then my father--this was years before we moved to this ranch. The first ranch we had when we were all little. My father and the neighbor built this warehouse, and they came in with apples, and they poured them in this water bath, and then it went down. And the women sorted off all the bad, and the other ladies were packing the apples with wrapper paper. Take that little paper. And they'd go on a roller to the lidder, and he would put the lid on and stack them up. And then two more people would come with these lifts and carry the five boxes of apples across a ramp and put them on the truck until they got the truck loaded, and then they would take it to White Bluffs, to the railroad. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Oh, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: The Milwaukee Railroad came into White Bluffs, and they would take them to Yakima. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: And that's how the apples would get shipped out. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: And the Pear and Fruit. I don't even know if they're still there, but my father worked for them after he had to leave White Bluffs and went to Yakima. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: When you were growing up on the farm, did you have any chores? Any things that you did? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: No, I was little. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: I was little. No. And I said we didn't have any indoor plumbing, and we didn't have any running water. And my brother reminds me so much of Wes, the boy you met. Said, well, Jeannie said we just put the bucket on the rope and put it down, and get a bucket of water. Wind the rope up, grab a hold of the buck, and if you were still able, you'd run the water to the house. [LAUGHTER] So he tried to tell me that we did have running water. But no, I did--I probably took care of the chickens or something like that. I didn't have any pets. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Did you swim in the river at all, or anything like that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: No. No, I was too little. The boys did, and we'd go out in one of these peach orchards. There were a lot of orchards in White Bluffs. Beautiful orchards. And they also had irrigating water. Pretty British, no. What's the Puget--what's over here? Where the river goes under the bridge? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Not sure. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Priest River! Priest Rapids! </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Priest Rapids, sure. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Priest Rapids irrigation. And they had paid in money for the upkeep of it. And that was one of the things that the boys--some White Bluffs boy told me, did you ever get any money back from your--what do you call that? Whenever you give money--have money yearly. It's not a donation; it's a cost. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: The years of the irrigation. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Oh, can't think. Okay. And no, we didn't ever have any. But they did have plenty of water. That's one thing they did have up there was plenty of water. And those peach orchards, they could afford to clean up new land, and bringing in new trees, and have the water. And they could--with the winters that we had there, their fruit would get onto the market before California would get up to Yakima. So when that company came in to take over, they gave my dad about $5 an acre. And these guys got maybe $20. And they were all rich enough to hire lawyers, and they hired lawyers. And their lawyer got them much more money for their land. But it was worth it. To see those brand new trees get just bulldozed over! </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: I was wondering if you remember any special community events or celebrations? Did you have any 4th of July celebrations, or picnics, or anything like that? Foot races? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: I can't remember any specific. I do remember that they built next to the high school something called a Community Hall. And they would have dances and the boys would play basketball. And maybe Kennewick would come up and play basketball. They'd have basketball games. But as far as grange, they did not participate. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: So-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Oh, and this orchard, in their warehouse. Yes, he had told me that before, that he had about 16 people that they hired. And my mother was the bookkeeper. And so these people were getting money every Friday night. 1934 and '35. So he had lots of friends. Lots of people liked him, because he did provide for people to get a job. There were no jobs, as far as work was concerned. The grocery store would hire--his nephew was there. And the drugstore did it by himself. And one lady, Mrs. Leander, was the postmistress. She took care of the post office. I don't know who any of the people were that came around to deliver the mail. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: You mentioned earlier that there was the initial farm that your parents had, and then your father had moved at some point. Is that right? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: About how old were you at that time, then? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Well, according to the pictures on--at home, I was about four. Because I was just with the kids as they would stand out go to school. I wasn't going to school. And then I cannot tell you how long it was, but it was a big blow to leave that house and that yard, and go to a house where workers had lived in all their life. And they had cardboard on their walls, covering up the wood. And it had one bedroom, and I got to have the bedroom. And there was a big porch in the front, and the three boys slept in part of it, and Mother and Dad slept in the other. But the weather over there was never cold. I guess it was hot, but I don't remember that. I'm sure it was hot. Because it was desert. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: And how far away would the second place have been from your first house? Was it fairly close? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: I would say three and a half miles, just up over a hill. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: And then you lived there until you moved to Yakima? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Yes. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Okay. You mentioned that you'd heard about World War II beginning. You want to talk about your brothers? And I understand they all joined the service at some point. Is that correct? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Mm-hm. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: And that's why you were still living in White Bluffs? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: No, Yakima. Well, you're right. They were. But then they left, because one was going to university and the other two we're going to Washington State. And they joined in what, '41? And then we had to move in '43. But they said, Mom, don't worry about moving to Yakima, because we can get to Yakima from anywhere in the world, but we can't get to White Bluffs. So they were probably already in the service doing their first camp or something. And one--I had no idea in the world what reconnaissance meant--he did not fight a war, but he was in reconnaissance--until I looked it up in the dictionary. And he was fighting the war up in the air, taking pictures of their movements, the Japanese movements. And my other brother was in a tanker taking fuel from New Orleans to France in the Atlantic. And he said that the Atlantic was full of German submarines. He said there were four days that they didn't even take their clothes off. But his was brand new, and he could not go slow as everybody else did. And he could go faster than their convoy, so he circled their own convoy without any cover, because he said his boat would not go that slow. And my other brother was in Marine fighter pilot. And he--I don't know if you knew the story about Ted Williams, but Ted Williams' group came in. Whenever my brother left that camp, Ted Williams came in. And I just heard that on the--because people look at me and say, Ted Williams, the baseball player? And I said, yes, he went to war. Yeah, he was in a group that came in and took over where my brother had been. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: You mentioned earlier that you started seeing some cars and vehicles that said U.S. Government. Do you remember any more about that? Anything else that happened? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Well, that was our first--there was gossip around that, I don't know, that they were going to take over and build a atomic bomb or something on our land. That we were going to have to leave. Well, you know, until it came to push, and then came shove. But these station wagons were showing up, and each one of them had about four men sitting in it. And they were surveying the land. And they had surveyed how many houses there were, and what condition they were in, because some houses were ready to be burned and a few houses were moved. And the rest of them were demolished. And then all of a sudden it came across that you were going to have to move by the 15th of September. They gave them the date. And my mother worked on an election board. And whatever year that was, I don't know. But she wanted to stay and work on that last board. And I had been told later that that was the only money she was going to move with, was what she got paid for. She had a sister that lived in Yakima, and they found us an apartment. And it was just two rooms. Oh, goodness, it was small. But that was where we were. And my dad stayed to work on the orchard. They let him stay until the crops were all picked. And he sent the last bunch of apples off that orchard to Yakima. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: How did you feel about having to leave? Or your parents ever express anything about-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: They did not, because as I've said before, I said we were poor. Leslie just said we didn't have any money. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: And we all got jobs. I got babysitting jobs with a little neighborhood girl. The mother was there, but I would just go over there and play with her, and get maybe $0.25 or something. Well, that's all there was. And I didn't drive. I couldn't go anywhere. Cars were--gas was rationed. And then we went to Yakima. And I graduated on about the 3rd of June and went to work on the 6th. I said to Mother, now, don't wake me up. I'm going to sleep for two days. She woke me up and said, well, there's an ad in the paper. The newspaper wants help. And I said, well, I'll go see. Well, I got taken that day. I worked there for seven years. In the advertising, Johnny, doing anything that they wanted done. I would do it. I ran the switchboard. And I could--I did a lot of odd jobs there. But I was in advertising. Yeah, I have to tell you that writing for sale notes to be published in the paper. And Friday night, he had to have it. Everything had to be back in the room to get onto Sunday's paper, at least by five o'clock Friday night. And this one man would invariably come about 20 after 4:00. And every time I could, I would leave the room. But I got a hold of him one time, and he had cattle for sale. And I was writing it down. And he had a milking short-horn bull. And I wrote it down, and I looked at it. That's what it said, a milking short-horn bull. I said, that's not possible! Oh, he said, you silly girls don't know a thing. That's what it is. Put in the paper. [LAUGHTER] I couldn't ask him, hey, my father wouldn't have known what a short-horn bull was either. [LAUGHTER] Wow, I never will forget that. So I found out later that that's a breed of animal. That's what they're called. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: I was asking about leaving White Bluffs. Did your parents get any money for their property at all? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: I have no idea. Money was never spoken of. I know that we took what furniture that there was suitable, and we had an aunt and uncle that lived in Sunnyside. And they came over with an old truck, and took whatever we couldn't take. Because when we went to Yakima, they said the apartment was furnished. So we didn't take anything. And that was bad. Because what they had furnished, we didn't want to sleep on. And we'd already sent out stuff to Sunnyside. So we slept on a Davenport until we got enough money to--Mother went to work for a lady that lived up the street. Had a little milk and bread grocery store, and she had two sons in the service. And so she and Mother had lots in common. And Mother would go to work for her two days--for a couple of hours two days a week. And that was what we bought groceries with. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: When you were living in White Bluffs, how you get news? Was there a newspaper? Did you have a radio? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: I never read a newspaper. I don't know anything about that. As soon as I got into the newspaper business, I read everything I can. I don't know. And as I said before, the radio we had was run by a battery. And the boys were allowed to have 30 minutes of radio when they got home from school. One of them was Jimmy Austin. Remember the--well you probably don't remember--it was a airplane. My one brother was crazy about airplanes then. And then they got into the, oh, some stupid--I think that was television, though. And then my dad was a great news man, and he would listen to the Richfield Reporter. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: And how about you? Did you listen to anything on the radio? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Uh-uh. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: I was wondering if you ever had a chance, opportunity, to go back to White Bluffs at some point later, during one of the White Bluffs reunions, or anything like that, where you have to go back and see the area at all. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Just three times I have. One was our 60th graduation. And the four I told you about--we had four--and the other three came. And that was when he took my girlfriend and I up to the--Harry Anderson took us up to our homes. Otherwise we would just join the convoy that would go out around and around and around. And come back in and drive through what White Bluffs streets were to get back out to the park. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: When you were able to go back and see the area, were there any things that you recognized at all that were still there, or was pretty much everything gone? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Well, a lot of the houses were still there. The girls that I used to go visit and knew about. And the warehouse was there. Just about the last packing he did was when he left. And a wind storm had come in and it was just boards. And the wind leveled it. So that was the end of that. And our hay barn, our cow barn, had collapsed, and I didn't want to go back anymore. It wasn't home. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: I see. What do you think is important for people to know about the community of White Bluffs? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: I want them to know that we were a community. We had stores. We had grocery stores. We had a barber shop. Had the power company. We had electricity at home. My mother had an electric washing machine, which was very, very rare. But the boys had made enough money in the service to help her buy some stuff. So she had an electric stove, and she had a wood stove. And the electric stove is what she baked in. Use it for baking. Because we had so many apples, she was always making apple pie. The wood stove had a great big reservoir. So if you wanted hot water, you started the stove. You'd have enough hot water to wash the dishes at suppertime, and wash your face to go to bed. That I can relate to something else that's kind of bad to these kids, but every morning, after breakfast, before we went to school, we’d put a little bit of soda and little bit of salt in the palm of our hand, and take our dry toothbrush and mix that together. Have a glass of water, and the four of us went outside, and stood outside on the lawn, and we'd all brush our teeth. Dip it in the water, and dip over here. We didn't have toothpaste, but I guess soda and salt will work just as well. We never had candy. We did have apple pie and chocolate cake. Mother did bake. And then my father had that cow, and would have a calf. And whenever the calf got big enough, he'd butcher it. And it would hang up in a tree. It was cool. It was always in the fall that he'd butcher the calf. And they'd go out and cut some meat, take it in, and have it for supper. So it was very, very pioneer. True. But as I said before, Leslie has made me think we were not poor. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Right. Did you go to any other towns very much at all? To Pasco or to-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Oh, Pasco we went for a doctor, because I got real sick in my fifth grade. I had Bright's disease. Don't even know what it is. But the doctors now say, well, I'm glad you had it then, because we don't want you to have it now. And I had to stay in the hospital in Pasco. And my mother would come twice a week, and she'd say, how are you doing? Oh, I said, I wish you'd bring me some water from home. The water they give me has--they always put my medicine in my water! And I said, I don't like it that way. I like to be able to drink a drink of water. And she said, well, they shouldn't put your medicine in your water. So she went out to the nurse and said, Jean said that the water isn't good. Well, she complains to me, too, but she's drinking city water. They had chlorine in it, and I didn't like it. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] How long were you in the hospital for that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: About two weeks. To me, that was a long ways to be from home. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: And about how old were you at that time? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: I was in fifth grade. I think I was 11. Bright's disease, I think, was a kidney problem, and the doctor, without telling me, told my mother that I may not ever be able to have children. So nobody told me anything about that until after I got married. And I had four children in six years, so I proved them wrong! [LAUGHTER] All doctors aren't right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] Were there doctors in White Bluffs? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: I was born there, yes. That's what one of my friends said, you couldn't have been born in White Bluffs unless you were born at home. I said, no, I was born in White Bluffs. There was a little house there, and there was some doctor. I don't know who he was. He was an old, old man. And the lady I talked to, the nurse, was a retired army nurse. And she said she had studied--what's baby birth? It's not pediatrics. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: It's not pediatrics? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Well, anyhow. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Woman: Was it midwifery? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Yeah. Well, that's what she was. She was a midwife. So yeah. The boys were all born in Yakima. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Oh, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: My mother would go in there and stay with her mother. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: But you were born in White Bluffs? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: I was born in White Bluffs. And isn't that funny? I can remember that, a white house. It was spotless. And there was no dogs and cats running around in it. No children. Just that old man and that lady. But I made it through. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Are there any other memories or stories, things you remember from growing up that we haven't talked about yet, or I haven't asked you about yet that you'd like to talk about? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: No, I ended up with The Republic and then I got married. Well, I worked seven years at the newspaper office. And the picnics and things that we had was over on the other house where we had the big lawn. We always had a picnic there. A lot of those people who were working at the warehouse would come over on Sunday and bring one dish or something, and all their kids. And they would play on our yard, because we had water in the yard--came to go to the orchard--had been derailed and come on to the yard. And he had and old lawnmower and mowed it. So it was fun. And we had a lot of company, because everybody was beholden to my father. And that's about all I can remember, but I wanted to express myself that this is really from my heart, because I have wanted to do this. And I appreciate all your help and the other people coming in and standing there waiting for us to get done. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Well, I want to thank you very much for being willing to share your stories. This has been terrific. I really appreciate it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Thank you. And the weather there! The weather in White Bluffs--I'm sorry. It was beautiful, even though it was desert. We had warm winters. I do not remember any snow. And it was a long trip from White Bluffs to Yakima in an old car. [bounces up and down] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Is that the Ford? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: An old Ford--no, no. Oh, my, no. We had a big Chevrolet. My brother bought it, then they went to war. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: So you took the Chevrolet once they were gone. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Mm-hm. Well, I am a very happy person. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] Well, thank you very much. Again, it was really appreciated. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Mm-hm. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Crew woman: Is that it? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Crew woman: Okay, well I heard you talking about the boat regatta. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Oh. Yeah. The boat regatta. There's a photo of the cars lined up on the river. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Mm-hm. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: Could you talk about that at all? Do you have any memories about the-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: Oh, yes. Because two of our men were in two of those boats. One of them was the Wiehl. I can't remember what another man's name was. I don't remember too much about it, because to me the boats were just going around and around and the rest of us kids were either trying to get ice cream, or [LAUGHTER] see how many rocks we could pick up or something. It wasn't--and that's another thing, too. I probably mentioned that before. We were never afraid. We were never afraid. Day or night. If somebody new came into town, he was well covered. And everybody knew who he was in ten days, five days. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Bauman: The boat regattas, did it happen every year? Is that something that's a yearly-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> Johnson: As far as I remember. I cannot say it was every year. Maybe every year for five years or something like that. And that was one of the biggest events. There was no rodeos, and no parades that I can ever remember. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070"> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: Okay. Well, Jean, let’s have you look at some of these photos, maybe. And have you talk a little bit about them. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Jean Johnson: All right. This is my mother and father’s wedding. They were married in Prosser in August 19—I almost want to say 1916. It doesn’t matter, really, it was somewhere in there. And they had met in White Bluffs, where mother’s family grew up—moved from Yakima to White Bluffs—was only 100 feet from Dad’s shack. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: Oh, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: So they met early in the shack. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: They were neighbors. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: Yeah. Okay, and this was a brand new Ford Turing. It wasn’t Turing—what did I tell you it was? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: You thought maybe a Model A, possibly? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: No. I don’t think—I don’t know. Maybe not, it was a brand new car. And when Dad went into White Bluffs to pick up the car, he took the three boys with him and bought them all three new hats. So they were spiffy and ready to go. And here they were just showing me off. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: And this is my house in White Bluffs. I loved that house. And you can see from the pictures they had a great big lawn. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: Right. More kids again here. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: Mm-hm. And we played—I was out on the grass all the time. The boys had pretend airports over here with their model airplanes. In those days they had airplanes that were made of steel or something, they were heavy. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: And who took all these photos, did your parents have a camera then? Do you know? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: Are we all there? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: No, but I mean—this is the four of you kids, but did your family have a— </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: Yeah. They had a Kodak Box. And those other pictures that I took when I was older, I had a little tiny thing that took 110. And then they finally did away with the 110 film. So the girls gave me a digital—3M or something, I don’t know. I can’t think. [LAUGHTER] So I don’t take any more pictures. Yeah, this was 1937. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: So, you were about 12 years old? What year were you born? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: ’25. No, I was little. I was about four, I didn’t get to go to school yet. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: Oh, here you were little, yeah. Let’s see. Oops. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: Yeah. And that’s an orchard that they worked in and they climbed up a tree. And there was a ladder, and there’s the dog standing there with them. See that? Ben-ben was always with them. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: That was your family dog? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: Mm-hm. There was a— </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: And who’s this here? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: That’s my second brother. He was the one who was on the gas run for the Navy. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: Oh, okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: He had come home from Pullman. He was very, very studious. He was the president of his senior class in college. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: Oh, okay, was that Washington State? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: Yes. And this one—my older brother went to the University of Washington, Seattle. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: Okay, I’m going to bring in some of these school photos now. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: This was the seventh grade. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: And which one are you in here? You see yourself? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: Remember? I was in the background, up by the teacher, tall. Yeah. And this is what? Fifth and sixth. We were younger. See that’s me right there. My brothers were all ahead of me. And that man’s name was Tomet. He lived in [UNKNOWN]. Fred Tomet. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: And he was the teacher? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: Mm-hm. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: This was taken outside in front the school. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: Mm-hm. That looks like a pretty good looking school, doesn’t it? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: It does, yeah. Now here’s an earlier one. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: Yeah, that was the teacher of second grade. I told you when she came back she had a little tiny—had a belly on her! Next time we knew, she had a new baby in her arms. That was my experience of when children would come, taught in school. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: And which one are you in this photo? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: Oh, right there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: Uh-huh. And there’s grade school. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: Oh, this is a whole bunch of them! </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: Looks like the whole grade school. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: It must be. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: Of White Bluffs. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: I think I’m down here, because that was the teacher. And that was my first grade teacher—I told you she was an older woman. And do you know, to this day—I called her Mrs. Moody—and there’s a lady in Ellensburg that my brothers went to school with. And they called her Mrs. So-and-so. In those days, that’s all we—you did not call them by Martha and George. They were mister and missus. And that’s what—in that, the lists that Betsy made of all those men in town—I didn’t know their first names that came to me. But they were always Mr. Gilhuly and Mr. Larsen and Mr. English. Kids in those days didn’t say, Hi Fred! </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: [referring to picture] I can’t tell, I can’t tell. But I’m there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: And another thing I wanted you to talk about was this. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: Yeah, that was the name of my father’s apple. This was painted on the backside of his—on the solid end of the apple box. And that does say White Bluffs on it. Codding and Heideman, Fred Rea – Seattle was his—when his stuff was shipped out. When it went right into the store, right into people, it was Pear in Yakima. Pear Fruit Company. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: And who was Heideman? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: He was a neighbor. We lived here, and went through the orchard and through the orchard, and he lived right there. And they had five children and they were all younger than we were. But it’s funny how they grew up, because two of the boys were teachers that came into Yakima. They were agriculture teachers and one was a livestock teacher. And they came into the school from Wenatchee. So many of those kids, you know, they moved out of White Bluffs when they had to. And they all stayed within the area, almost. I don’t know, some of them must have left and went out of state, but a lot of them just stayed with what they knew. That’s the only thing you could do, you couldn’t get really educated. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: A lot of them stayed close by? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: Mm-hm. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: I meant to ask you, do you know how large your farm was, like how many acres? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: I think it was something like 22. It wasn’t large, but they were all trees. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: And so your father partnered with Mr. Heideman for these apples. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: Well, I would say Mr. Heideman let—knew my father. Because he wanted to build it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: And Heideman said, well, I’ll help you. And so they got in a real good friendship. Us kids were all good friends, but the parents didn’t have much to do until they got into this. But he was, as I said before, a lot of people had great respect for him for getting them jobs. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: Mm-hm, right. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: Now, not to change the subject, but my boys are the same way as my dad was. Because my boys hire whatever they have to hire. And they are—the boys that they hire comment to them and to their parents how easy and how nice it is to work here. Because they say thank you, they don’t yell at them, they’re paid every time they need money or time they’re off. And that’s what they have learned. If they did the work, pay them. Don’t say you have to wait until Monday. So they have very good respect in the Valley. I’m very, very proud of all of them. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: Sure. I meant to ask you, how did you come across this label? How did you get this label? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Johnson: I have no idea. Somebody must have drawn it up for him. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991"> Bauman: Mm-hm. All right. Thanks. Thank you, that was very good. Very helpful. </div> </div> Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 244Kbps Location The location of the interview Washington State University - Tri-Cities Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 01:04:24 Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1925-2013 Names Mentioned Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community. Conning, Andrew Johnson,Irma Ponsat, Yvonne Keele, Elizabeth Reirson, Dick Fred Gillhualy Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano)1882-1945 Williams, Ted Anderson, Harry Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jean Johnson Description An account of the resource An interview with Jean Johnson conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-06-7: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.] Subject The topic of the resource Pasco (Wash.) Kennewick (Wash.) White Bluffs (Wash.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 7/31/2013 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection. Kennewick (Wash.) Pasco (Wash.) Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945 White Bluffs (Wash.) https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fb9924b95c500c11fbe13d70499530994.jpg c6a5a368983807b39e2eb55f5be4117b https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F89bbc7b903e7acf0ca7b8fbdd52459aa.mp4 afa17d712e9449df0e87752979c8f63a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pre-1943 Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Description An account of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bauman, Robert Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Holm, Paula Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Northwest Public Television | Holm_Paula Robert Bauman: Good to go? Camera man: I'm recording. Sound man: Yup, I’m recording too. Bauman: Okay. Can you hear me all right? Paula Holm: Yes. Bauman: Okay, great. So we could start maybe by having you say your name and then spell your last name for us. Holm: Okay. You want me to start right now? Bauman: Yeah, that's fine. Holm: Paula Mary Holm. My maiden name was Bruggemann. Do I need to spell that? Bauman: Yeah. That would be great. Holm: B-R-U-G-G-E-M-A-N-N. Bauman: And my name's Robert Bauman, and we're conducting this oral history interview on August 6th of 2014, and we're interviewing Paula Bruggemann Holm in Yakima, Washington. Holm: Mm-hm. Bauman: So let's start, if we could, if you could talk about your family a little bit, especially about your parents. And if you know when they came to the White Bluffs area and what brought them there? Holm: My dad was born in Germany, and he wanted to come to the States to be a farmhand, have a farm, so he chose to venture to New York and then come across the states, and he settled in the White Bluffs area and purchased the land, from--it was a German fellow by the name of Von Herbert. And that started the whole process. He was able to have enough funds to purchase the ranch. So that's what got it started. Bauman: Now, was he married already to your mother, or was he single when he came over? Holm: He was single, and my mother was working at the ranch with her sister and my grandma, my mother's mother. So they could all handle, between all of the family, they could handle the ranch hands, which I can't recall how many they had. But that long building that they called--The long building existing there now that's kind of disintegrated down to a few existing blocks was actually called the cook house. Didn't you have a different name for it? Bauman: Warehouse is the name of the building. Holm: Warehouse, no, that was the cook house, and my grandma was the chief cook and along with my mom and my mom's sister. It was just kind of a unique family situation, and it worked out real good. I was somewhere in the mix, but I wasn't really involved in the whole situation because I was two and a half, three years old--three years old when we had to leave. So it's real hard to go back that far. Bauman: Sure, yeah. Holm: I don't think you could do it yourself. Bauman: Right, so talk about your parents a little. What were your parents' names? Holm: My dad's name was Paul Ludwig. My brother's name is Ludwig. My mom's name was Mary. So I am Paula Mary Bruggemann--Bruggemann-Holm. Bauman: And so how did your parents meet then? Do you know? Holm: Well, just they had met there on the ranch because my dad needed a certain amount of help, and I guess that's how they had met. I don't really know all the details there, but my mother hadn't married yet, and my aunt was married, and my grandma was married, of course. So my mom and dad were married in, oh, let’s see, 1936 or so, and then my brother was born in '38, and I was born in 1940. Bauman: And what was your mom's maiden name? Holm: Mary Etta Hoard-- H-O-A-R-D. Bauman: And do you know where she was from originally? Holm: She was from, well, let's see now, oh, wow, the Portland area. Bauman: Okay. Holm: Anyway that area there somewhere, and that's all I can tell you about that situation. Bauman: Now I know you were very young when you left there. What do you know about, and I know most of this would be from your parents telling you or maybe your brother telling you, but what sort of crops were grown on your land there? Holm: Well, mostly soft fruit, the apricots and peaches and, and then my dad had sheep. I don't know if he had goats or not, but he had sheep, and quite a large amount of sheep because he had sheepherders help and dogs and everything that goes along with it. And one of the fellows that helped him sheep herd was the father of one of the fellows that lives here in the Moxee area, I believe it is. I don't have his name right now--Hernandez or--pardon? Martinez, and I've talked with him, but he's so bitter about this whole situation, it's hard to get a lot of information out of him. Because his dad worked with my dad, and he had such bitter memories that his son, which is the one living now, is so down on the situation. I've talked with him a couple times, and it's been very interesting. But it's just hard to talk about. Bauman: Sure. Holm: Especially for him when his dad was right there working with my dad. Bauman: Right. Holm: Oh, excuse me, I'll have to retrace on that. My mom was from the Galvin area in Centralia. Bauman: Oh, okay. Holm: And they had an old, old farmhouse out there. And that's where her best friends were living, and she still visited with them up until probably five years before she passed away. But it was kind of a large family, and she really enjoyed that area, a very nice, quiet area, and she went to school there, and graduated from high school. But then after that, I don't know. I don't really know, unless they maybe had gone to dance. You know, they had grange dances then. Maybe that's how she met my father, but I wouldn't be able to tell you. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: I noticed in doing some research looking back there was a reference that—an old newspaper--that your mother in 1939, I think '40 was secretary of the grange in the area where the ranch was. Holm: Oh, uh-huh, yeah. Yeah, there was a picture, some picture, in a photo. I noticed that, which I wasn't aware of at all. And she belonged to some women's club. Bauman: So going back, I want to go back a little bit to your father again. And you mentioned that he came from Germany, and do you know was he looking for somewhere to farm, to buy some land? Holm: Yes. Bauman: Do you know why eastern Washington, how that happened or just there was land available? Holm: Well, I guess that would be the situation. He found the land here or in White Bluffs or whatever, and it was real appealing, and so I don't know how long his search went on. I don't know how long he tried to pursue the situation, but that's what he wanted to do was farming. Bauman: Now, I've been out to the site, and I've seen what's left of the building there, and I know there are also these large ceramic irrigation pipes there that you can still see parts of. Do you know terms of other outbuildings what else was there, besides the house and the cook house? Holm: No, just the pastures to keep the animals when they were supposed to be in. And I wasn't allowed to go out, because when you're so small, you're around the house most of the time. And my grandma was quite protective also. Helping my mom with the children, and cooking for 17, 18 people was not an easy job. So when my grandma helped and went shopping with us, she had a harness deal that she put on me because at that time when children were small, I guess that was the best way to be sure that they don't get away from you. Of course, nowadays are different. They don't take care of the children like they used to. Whatever the children do, that's fine--run away or run two blocks ahead of your family. It doesn't matter. But my grandma was pretty strict. So she wanted to know where we were at all times. [LAUGHTER] So I, at one time--I guess this is my brother's story. He was out in the fenced area, along the fenced area, and got kicked by one of the animals because he shouldn't have been there at that time. So but I'm sure that that was something that he had mentioned in the other interview, which was kind of funny. But other than that, it's just real hard to remember any of the--I don't even remember the house. Bauman: Sure. Holm: That's the thing that really gets to me. I just can't remember the house at all, where the living room was or where the bathroom was or nothing. It's just really--but when you go back in your life, I don't think you can remember when you were two and a half, three years old either. I have a slight vision of where on the surroundings, but that's about it. And then when we moved from that area and had to get out, I think that I do remember there was a substation at Hanford. That was some good friends of my folks', and I would stay there because they were busy moving. And I don't remember if they moved temporarily to Sunnyside or not, but they moved in this house. I'm sure it's down by the junior college, and I was playing on a lot. They had a house that they rented, and then there was a little house the set back on the lot, and I was playing there with the gang. And somebody was batting a baseball, and I was too close behind him, so he hit me in the head with the bat. [LAUGHTER] Bauman: Oh, no. Holm: And that was like three years old, three and a half years old or whatever it was, and that's why I remember that house so much. But we were only there for a short while, while my dad and mom were trying to secure place to find. And they bought the house from Damon Canfield. He was not a senator, but somebody that was kind of involved in government things. And my dad always, of course, being in that nice, antique house out there, which was kind of actually European, more European than anything you could find here, he always, always said, oh, this house is just--it's just not a good house. He just like sold me a piece of junk. And he was always disappointed in that house, because it wasn't a quality house. So he probably wished he had his stone house back. Bauman: Right, right. So when he purchased the land, was the house already there--the house and the other buildings? Holm: On the ranch? Bauman: On the ranch, yes. Holm: Yes, it was a complete package. I don't believe he built anything or added on anything. He just took over, and that was that. Bauman: Mm-hm. So you mentioned your grandmother would take you--she had to go shopping. Holm: Yeah, she took me shopping. Bauman: Do you know where she would go? Holm: They had to go to Sunnyside. That was the only closest place with enough shopping, because they were kind of far away from--I mean, there's no corner grocery stores or anything like that that would suffice, because they had to buy quite a few things to feed that many people. And then when I went with my folks in their '38 Chevy pickup, is that correct? We always made a stop, and that's very interesting. I don't know if my brother remembers. I don't think I'm making this up. Sometimes I think I am, but we always made a stop along the road, along the highway somewhere, on the way to Sunnyside because there was this old hermit, and he had a name I think. But he thought so much of my mom, he would always say, oh, hi, Mary. And I would be sitting there on the seat, and we always stopped and talked to him. But he was an absolute hermit that was living out in the no-man's land or desert or whatever, and he had a full beard, just like Santa Claus. But he was so interesting to talk to, and they always wanted to stop and say hi to him or say hello. And that's about the most exciting thing I ever remember, because we never passed him up without speaking. But when I tell my brother about that, he--of course, a lot of times he stayed behind. He wasn't always--he was old enough that he could stay behind and not have to go on these shopping escapades or whatever. But other than that, there's nothing that is real interesting enough that I can think of. Bauman: So my sort of impression now is the ranch was fairly isolated, away from any of the towns. Holm: Yeah, uh-huh. Bauman: Do you know who some of the closest neighbors might have been? Did your parents ever talk about any of the families? Holm: Gilhuly. Gilhuly was--and I don't know what his first name was. He was pretty close there and his wife. In fact, I think he's still living today. They live right down across from St. Paul's School in quite a nice brick home. But his wife isn't real interested in this Hanford situation because she is the daughter-in-law, I guess you might say, and she wasn't there. It was just her father-in-law, I guess you might say. And there was Gary Wills--W-I-L-L-S--that was living in that area with his wife, because when they moved, they moved along the same time as my folks. And then they moved down to South Seventh Avenue, and they kept their friendship up until the time that they passed away. So they must've lived--I don't remember them from the ranch, but that's why they kept up the friendship because they were neighbors. And there's a few other names that I can't think of right now, but if they were mentioned, every once in a while, I recognize my folks mentioning that name. Bauman: Right. Holm: But I don't think that there is any other names that I can remember. I'd have to see a list. Bauman: Sure. So in 1943, of course, your parents and anyone living in that area there was notified that they had to leave. Holm: Uh-huh, my folks didn't really, I guess you might say, burden us children with that kind of a situation. Because they were quite private people anyway. And if they would have talked a lot about the situation, it would have been kind of a bad deal for us. So they just--Papi talked about it in the evening when we went to bed, because we went to bed like 7:30, eight o'clock, not 11 o'clock, like a lot of kids nowadays. And so they would talk among themselves but not involve us. Bauman: Sure, sure. Later, when you were older, grown up, did you ever talk with them about it, about having to leave? Holm: No, my dad, I think, would have had a hard time discussing that, or talking about. So they didn't, no, they didn’t really talk about it at all, that I can recall. But as children, or younger, you're not interested in that kind of a thing anyway, and then when you're older you think, hmm, boy, that was sure too bad that I wasn't better informed. So, no, they didn't—I can't ever remember them discussing it at all. Bauman: When we were talking earlier, you mentioned that you and brother, Donald Gary Peterson, back to the site a couple years ago or so. I wonder what that experience was like for you. Did it bring back any memories, or was it more sort of you learning more about this place? Holm: Well, yeah, learning more because my brother really hadn't talked about it very much either, so I'm kind learning, just from reading the articles that have come up during this whole research, which is very interesting. Bauman: So after your parents got the notice then had to leave, your family then moved to Sunnyside briefly. Is that-- Holm: Well, I don't know if they went to Sunnyside, and, if they did, it was probably just for like two or three weeks, because they would have been coming this way to look for a property. In fact, I may have stayed with that family. I stayed with my aunt in Portland, I know. They moved all separately, and my aunt moved to Portland to Sandy Boulevard. And my folks, in the process of moving, had sent me there with them, because it's hard to move with small children. And I think they used Mayflower Moving. I remember that huge Mayflower truck, and I spent time down there waiting for them to get their bills all gathered together, and we you have to go down the office and do this and do that. But I do remember it was Mayflower. And I stayed with my aunt like three or four days, at least, because they needed the help. And that would be when I was three plus. Bauman: And then eventually, your family moved to Yakima. Holm: Yeah, they found the house up here and came and got me, and we moved in, and that was that. It wasn't exactly the best situation because I think my dad had to build or add a little bit to the--there was just a garage, an old garage, shop area or something, and he had to build on a big platform for fruit. So it wasn't the situation he wanted, but that's the only thing he could find at the time. Bauman: So, the cook house is one of the few structures left, not just from your ranch, but from the whole area there, very few structures. Holm: Yeah, yeah. Bauman: Why do you think it'd be important for people to learn about these small towns and the farms and the people who lived out there before the war? Holm: Well, it's Gary and the other people involved kept calling it the warehouse, and I don't believe that that is right at all. Because my folks always stressed the point that they had a lot of an awful lot of stress or load on getting everybody fed at one time. And it was kind of like a longhouse, actually, with tables, of course, and it was quite a production to get everybody fed and back out helping. So I do believe that that's what it was called, but the other structures, I don't remember a whole lot about. But it's kind of nice to have everyone knows the different structures that were out there. But when we went out, even when I was younger, we went out to check on things, but there was really no interest because I didn't really know what was going on or what to think. I don't know, when you're small, you just don't realize what goes on with your parents and such. Bauman: Right. You told the story earlier, your brother, about getting kicked by an animal. Are there any other stories or things that he's told you that--he's a little bit older than you--that he remembered that-- Holm: No, we just were always playing out in the yard. And I can't remember now if there was a little bit of a fenced yard, but you just draw such a blank that it's real hard to tell you anything more because I just was so young. Bauman: Sure. You mentioned earlier that your father talked about that the house there being superior to-- Holm: Oh, yeah, it was a much better constructed and very solid house. Bauman: Did he talk much at all in other ways about the ranch, about the place at all or-- Holm: No, he couldn't. He just couldn't talk about it. So he didn't, I guess. That's what you might say. Just like all the other people. There isn't very many people that--they're probably passed away now, but there wasn't very many people that could talk about that because it was a horrid situation. That is that. Bauman: Well, I don't have any more questions for you. Is there anything else that you would like to say or something I haven't asked you about? Holm: No, I don't think so, not at this time. I just wish that my brother was here to maybe help you a little bit more. He could be here in a little while. Bauman: Well, hopefully we can arrange that. But I really appreciate your time. Holm: Yeah, I just wish that I could tell you more or come up with more, but I just like draw a blank. Bauman: This is very helpful and very interesting, so thank you very much. I appreciate it. Holm: Mm-hmm. Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 259 kbps Location The location of the interview Yakima, Washington Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:32:31 Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1940-1943 Names Mentioned Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community. Herbert, Von Ludwig, Paul Ludwig, Bruggemann Hoard, Mary Etta Canfield, Damon Wills, Gary Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Paula Holm Description An account of the resource An interview with Paula Holm conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Subject The topic of the resource Hanford (Wash.) White Bluffs (Wash.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-8-6 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-06-09: Metadata v1 created – [RG] White Bluffs (Wash.) https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F2045b923bd00154088960e93b3ffe999.jpg 5594f32cffd1155c8710490f27309e4a https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F2a1f5cb600d503379e0b3c691cdae908.mp4 9924474cd3bfd6785749acdeb0e844bf Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pre-1943 Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Description An account of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert Bauman Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Robert Brinson Location The location of the interview Washington State University Tri-Cities Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:36:17 Hanford Sites Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview 300 Area Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1948-2013 Years on Hanford Site Years on the Hanford Site, if any. 1960-2000 Names Mentioned Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community. Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945 Moulster, Louis Lyman Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 50 Kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Robert Brinson Description An account of the resource An interview with Robert Brinson part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-05-10: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.] Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection. Subject The topic of the resource Richland (Wash.) Richland (Wash.). Public Schools Richland (Wash.)--Social conditions. White Bluffs (Wash.) Scripto Transcription A written representation of a document. <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Northwest Public Television | Brinson_Robert </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Robert Bauman: --2013 and the interview is being conducted on the campus of Washington State University Tri-Cities. And I’ll be talking to Mr. Brinson about his family’s history at Hanford. And his family stories, experiences, memories about that community. If you could tell me sort of how and why your family came to Hanford, when that was, and what family members were part of that initial coming to Hanford. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Robert Brinson: Well, let’s see, I’ll start with my mother’s family was originally up in Ruth when she was born. In kinda north central Washington. And grandpa was working at the train station there, as a depot agent, telegrapher. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Camera man: Oh, let’s stop. Yup. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Oh, sorry. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Camera man: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: All right? Okay. All right, so talking about your family. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Robert Brinson: Okay, mom's family, which was the Moulsters. My grandpa was Louis Lyman Moulster, the depot agent telegrapher at the, I think it was, the Milwaukee Railroad in Ruth, Washington, when mom was born. I'm not sure how old they were when he got just a little spooked about the immigrants who were coming in to that area and decided they'd move. So they moved on to Hanford. And he took over the depot down there and raised his family. And there was Mom and Aunt Louise. Twin sisters Margaret and Mildred and younger sister June, which they called Babe. The oldest one was Uncle Lyman. And the baby of the family was Uncle Arthur. When he came along, Grandpa was busy with a train about to come in so he couldn't take Grandma to the hospital. So Uncle Lyman had to drive the car, and this is a 12-year-old kid driving an old Model T to the hospital. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] Where was the closest hospital? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: In Pasco. Lady of Lourdes in--I think it was still in Pasco, early in that time. But when the word got back the baby had been born, he kind of slapped his knee and said, that's the caboose. [LAUGHTER] No more kids. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: So what year did that family come to Hanford? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Oh, I'm not certain. It's probably in the late 1910 to 1915, somewhere in there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Okay. And the name is Moulster, M-O-U-L-S-T-E-R? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Right, yeah. They came out of Wisconsin, originally. And Dad's family came out of Arkansas. He was only two years old when the family moved out here. All of them is, let’s see, brother Paul and sister Irene--or not—sister Bernice. Brother Herbert and Albert were all born, no, not Herbert, except for Herbert, they were born back in Fayetteville. They moved out to Seattle from there, and that was where Uncle Herb was born. But they didn't stay there long. They moved to—oh, I’ve forgot, you've got it in your notes there in that one I sent you--to one of the towns in eastern Washington, before they moved to Hanford, anyway. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: And they got what, 1918, I think they settled in Hanford. And not in Hanford, the foothills of the Rattlesnakes out there, where the Benson Ranch was up where Fitzdriver Hart is now? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: So they ran the ranch up there. Had the sheep and everything. And the boys would raise the sheeps that were what that the mothers wouldn't raise. So they had a good--they said it was a great place to grow up. The Moulsters and the Brinsons were all friends from almost the get-go. Even living 18 miles away from each other they would visit back and forth all the time. And so, that's eventually Mom and Dad ended up at--It happened that when they finished with the apple crop down here, the kids would go up to the Wenatchee area, where further north where the crops were still coming off, so they could get some more work in. Earn some more money. And so they were-- just happened to be up there in a little town close to Wenatchee--and they were picking apples in a tree, and Dad got it in his head and asked Mom he thought they'd known each other long enough that maybe they should think about getting married. So she agreed, up there at the top of the apple tree ladder. So that's where all that started. And then I was born in 1937. The same trip to the hospital in an old Model T. Dad grumbling all the way, why'd anybody want to live out in the middle of nowhere like this. So I only got to experience Hanford for probably four years. But I did hear tales about how I would like to run off, because nobody locked doors in those days. And so if Mom turned her back too long, I'd dash out the door and go down the street to see Aunt Bernice. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: She would tell that story on and on and over and over as she entered in her elderly years when she got a little bit, I think it was Alzheimer's, probably is what it was, you know how they repeat themselves. So I heard that story a lot when I'd go to visit. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: So the house you lived in, was it in town? Or did you have a farm? Or what sort of place was it? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: No, it was right in town there because Dad had the little beer parlor, ice cream parlor combination. There was a room in the back where the men played cards. And they had--kids'd scrounge ice cream cones and men'd drop in for a beer. And even the Indians'd come by and try to get alcohol, which you couldn't legally sell it to them. So he had to keep a little short barrel .22 short pistol under the counter to dissuade the more belligerent of the tribe when they tried to buy alcohol of off him. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Does it have a name, the pool hall or beer hall ice cream parlor? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: I never did hear if it was just a Hanford pool hall or whatever. Otherwise it was just--there were probably just orchards all around town and up and down the river, is all it was, was fruit. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: So the Brinson family had the place 18 miles out. Is that right? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: That, well, they worked for the. Benson, E. F. Benson I think was his initials. He was the owner of the ranch. And he built a house for the family out there. Had running water from a spring. And the kids got to drive in to--I think it said in the letter Uncle Herb wrote--that it was the county bought him a Model T to drive in to the school at Cold Springs. And then somebody found out they were actually were in the Hanford School District so they had to, even though Cold Springs was closer, they had to drive 18 miles to Hanford to go to school. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: So that must've been quite an experience. You can imagine teenage boys doing stuff like that. Would've been kind of fun. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Had you heard any other stories about the school itself? About your dad or your aunts and uncles? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: No. There was something that nobody ever really made clear, that he did have to spend a year at a high school up north in--can't remember the name of that little town. Now, I ever got a letter on my sweater with a big P on it. Pateros. Yeah, Pateros High School. So he must have got into some kind of trouble and had to go away to a different high school for a year. Because I think it was like 1930, 1931, when they graduated. It was 1935, I think, when they got married, so. So there was some time, he spent time in the President Roosevelt's CCCs, building campgrounds and trails in the mountains around the state. And he actually went and spent some time down in Oregon on the Salmon River, I think, panning for gold one spring. He had a few adventures away from Hanford before he came back and committed himself to a long, long marriage with Mom. Yeah, so. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Well, talking about FDR and the CCC, any of your family members ever talk to you about the Depression? What it was like growing up or living in Hanford during the Depression? Did it have an impact on the community in any way? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: You know, they always talk like it was the most wonderful place in the world. They didn't have any financial problems because they took care of everything themselves. They had their own herds and their own fruit and vegetables. Didn't depend on when the government came along with the social programs. They went off and made a dollar a day and sent whatever portion was required for them to send home. A certain percentage they had to send home. It was never, never heard of a word, like there was any kind of hardship at all. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Now the Moulster family, did they have a place in town, then? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Yeah, the railroad supplied a house for Grandpa and Grandma. So he would go down and greet the trains when they came in. And of course all the family had free passes so the kids could, during summer vacation, they could hop on a train, ride anywhere they wanted to go, for nothing. So they'd go over to Seattle and visit relatives. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: That's nice. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Yeah, they had a good time. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Sounds nice. How long was your grandfather work for the railroad in Hanford then? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Until the government came in. And they moved from there to Prosser and they retired. And they lived in Prosser for the rest of his life. I think he died, oh, somewhere like 1957 or 8, somewhere like that. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Do you have any idea how busy of a train stat--like how often trains came through? Once a day? A couple times a day? Do you know? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: I never heard, no. You would expect maybe at least once a day to have to keep a guy there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Mm-hm, you’d think so, right. I was wondering about, you talked about the beer parlor/pool hall and ice cream parlor. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: I wonder if any of your family members ever talked about recreational activities, picnics, or Fourth of July celebrations, or things that kids did for fun. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Just when they'd visit families back and forth. They'd go out to the Benson ranch on Sundays, usually after church, and they'd have a big supper. And, like I said in the write up, they would make a big tub of ice cream. You know it probably was salt and ice and stirred all up. And when they'd come the other way down to Hanford and they probably went to the river in a summer day, cause that's where the whole town gathered, right there in the swimming hole. Only place to keep cool. And you can imagine those blistering summer days like we get around here. Without, back before they had a lot of the agriculture we have now. Wasn't nearly as cool, probably. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Right. Yeah. Then there's winter, also, which is a completely different. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Oh, yeah there's pictures. I've seen pictures at the reunions of the frozen Columbia with a herd of sheep going across. And just amazing. The ice skating, of course, on the same place they'd swim in they'd be ice skating on it in the wintertime. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Mm-hm. Now, when your family was at the Benson ranch, right? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Dad's family, yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: So it was sheep. Did they also grow crops at all? Apples, peaches, anything along that—orchards? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: No, it was always strictly for wintering the sheep, I think, mostly. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Okay. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: In the springtime they'd drive them out onto the sagebrush flats out in the range. Well, even today if you drive--we just got back from a cross-country trip to Kentucky, and out through Wyoming and Utah there, you see sheep all over the place. You see the little carts out there the sheep herder lives in. It's just like it was back then. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: You talked about the Brinson and Moulster families being close, were there other families, do you know, that you got close to— </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Yeah, there were-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: --Or knew really well? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: When they had the get-togethers, the reunions were just the happiest times, when they'd all get together and they'd hash out the old memories from. And they'd talk about the people around the mercantile downtown. And the different neighbors, all of them. It was too young for me to remember most of the names. I remember a few names. I think the store was run by the Boyd family. And of course there were the Clarks. Ilian Clark was one of the latest, or she went to our church, actually. I mean she would, she's the one that'd always try to organize the sing-alongs at the reunions. She would play the piano and try to get everybody the sing all the old songs. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Yeah. What about churches in the community? Were there a number-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: I think there was only a Presbyterian church there. I think that's what everybody went to, if they were so inclined, anyway. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Mm-hm. And did your family get to some of the neighboring communities very often? To White Bluffs or Richland? I know the hopsital’s in Pasco, but-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Not that they've mentioned very often. They've had quite a rivalry going with White Bluffs that even carried on into the reunions. The Hanford folks and the White Bluff folks still had a few issues, even going into those later days. Probably sports teams and such like that. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Probably schools and sports teams. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: So let’s talk a little bit now about World War II and when the federal government decided that they were going to build a site out where the community of Hanford was. What do you know about that? Or what have you heard from your family members? I know you were only four years old or something at the time. What sort of stories have you heard about that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: There was a lot of bitterness. And even to this day, some of them, like that one fellow you mentioned that you'd interviewed before, I'm sure you must have heard from him how hard it was on some of the folks to walk, practically walk away from a orchard just ready to probably pick and produce a crop and make a profit for you for the first time. And you have to walk away from it. You can imagine what kind of bitterness that might produce. See, we had already left by probably 1942. And Dad decided a growing family needed a better income, so he got on at the shipyards over there in Tacoma and then Grandpa followed. We lived together for a while over there. And did a little work. Didn't come back ‘til 1948. But you heard the stories at every reunion from just about the same people. They repeat the same stuff. [LAUGHTER] Grandpa Brinson got his--after all the work he did on his place, planting the peach orchard and everything--he got 700 whole dollars out of the government for it. And I'm sure it was similar for a lot of the other folks. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: $700 is what—is all he got? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: That's all he got for his house, outbuildings, and orchard, yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: So you were in Tacoma, your family was in Tacoma though at that point. Is that right? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Right, before they-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Did you hear about it at that point? Do you know did your family hear about it from? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Well, I'm sure there were--I'm not sure how they communicated. Mostly by letters, probably. I don't think that there was--well, yeah, there must have been long distance at that time. But, yeah, I don't recall, of course, being at that age, a lot of telephone traffic at all. But I'm sure they heard from the folks. Because after it happened we'd take a lot of trips back over the mountains to visit Grandma and Grandpa there in Prosser. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: They had moved to Prosser then? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Yeah, a lot of folks moved to Prosser. A lot of them moved to Yakima and surrounding towns out through there. It scattered them pretty good, so it was always nice to see them come back. The reunions were really crowded in the early days. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Do you know about when those reunions started? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Oh, it had to have been in the late '40s. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: So pretty soon after the war. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Probably in the, yeah, '47 to '49, somewhere in there probably. You know the kids--all the kids noticed was free ice cream, free pop. [LAUGHTER] And a lot of grass and trees to play under, play around under. So my sister was the one that—she would love to sit under the picnic table and listen to all the adult talk going on. But us kids, us boys, we'd just run around and play. We didn't care about that kind of stuff. So she heard all the stories, but you couldn't talk her into coming in for an interview, huh? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: So when did you--since you were only four years old or so when your family left Hanford-- when did you first become aware of the family story here and what had happened to the communities here? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Oh, well, when they would take us to the reunions, they'd hear the stories and, of course, even family get-togethers you'd hear it then, too. ‘Cause we'd always have a get-together in a Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving. There'd always be a family get-together, so you'd hear all the stories around the dinner tables. All the fellowship around that time, most times of the year. And there'd be a lot of good-humored joking, but there's always that underlying disappointment. It would've been nice to have carried on and grown up and realized the full potential of a community like that. Along the river would've been a beautiful place. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Yeah. So I was going to ask you--one of the reasons we're doing this project is to get memories and stories about families that were there, so that someone in the future, a student maybe, or maybe a descendant of yours could listen and watch the video. What sorts of things or anything that you would especially like people like that to know about, or know about the community of Hanford, or about your family that you think it would be important to let them to know about? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Oh, probably the most important thing would be I think the freedom you felt like you had in those days, even at four years old and you don't really don't realize the importance of it. You had it, when you could just run out of the house and go visit some aunt up the street and not worry about being lost or being abducted by some nutball. And the people were independent and helped each other. And it was just, compared to how things are today, wow. Yeah, don't get me started on the politics going on today. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: So in other words, it was a community. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Yeah. There was even-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: People who really felt like a community. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Oh, yeah. You could tell when you see them at the reunions how close they were. Just a whole lot of hugging going on. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] Yeah. Well, just the fact that they had those reunions and kept doing those for so many years suggests-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Yeah. Yeah the-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: --strong bond, right? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Yeah, the people that organized those had to really be committed because that took a lot of work, sending out all the letters and getting together all the food, all the materials it took. And then they would put out tables and tables of old photographs and paper, newspaper clippings, and stuff like that. I hope you were able to get ahold of some of that. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: I did, yeah, see some of that, yeah. Have you or any of your family members ever gone back, say on one of the tours that goes out? Been able to go see the former sites out there? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: A few times we went out to. One time when they let you take your cars out, they kind of travel out there following the DOE guy. They let you park and walk around, trying to find your old home site. My mom always knew by the shape of some tree about where their house was. And her cousin Dick went with us one time, and he got to poking around out there and he actually found a little fish pond that his father had built for him. It was all covered over by sagebrush and stuff. But he managed to find it and brush off the stuff. But it was just made out of stones that were just kind of cemented in. It was probably no bigger than that, but it was only so deep, but it was. It meant a lot to him to-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Oh sure. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: --to be able to find that and remember that part of his life. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Wow. Do you know when that might have been, that he would have went back out there and found that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Oh, that was probably in the late '60s, early '70s, in that area. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: And you mentioned that your mom was able to by the shape of a tree know where. What sort of response did she have to going back out there? Did you get a chance to talk to her about that? Or were you out there with her? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Yeah. Oh yeah, she liked it. Her thing, like I said, was down at the old swimming hole. She kind of graded everything by where the swimming hole was, where that meant that. And then she could figure out where that tree was. And then that house stood right there by the tree. Some of the houses, they moved out of there to other parts of the countryside that weren't on the project. Some of them might still be in use today for all I know. But, oh yeah, she'd get excited every time we'd go out there and remember--remembering things. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Mm-hm. So she seemed to really appreciate being able to go out there again. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Oh yeah. Invariably it'd be a real hot day and it'd be uncomfortable out there. You'd usually gather around the old high school there. The shell was still standing. Must have been quite--I guess, the bank building. Maybe that was in White Bluffs, so it was still standing too. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: White Bluffs Bank, yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Yeah. But you must've had if she could remember that well just by a few things that were she had a real--she knew that town. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Oh, yeah. She grew up there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Knew it well. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Yeah, that was when she used to tell us about sleeping out on the hay stacks at those hot summer evenings, and listening to the coyotes howl. Falling asleep to that noise. What she called music. [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Remember any other stories she used to tell you about things like that, that would've been sort of unique to the area? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: No, not really. She did leave to go to Seattle to go to secretarial school. Or business school, she called it. Business school. So she went to a couple years of that. And then probably right after that they probably got married. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: With the proposal in the apple orchard-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Yeah, and then moved to Tacoma over in probably '42. I think so. But they did have a lot of close friends that they could talk for hours about the old times, the good times. Especially if the sisters got together. Boy, they could--Man, it was—[LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: It sounds like she had a lot of very fond memories of-- </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: They were, yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: And did your dad talk about much, talk about the old community much? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Oh, yeah. They had the men's fraternity, I guess you'd call them, were pretty close. They had a lot of—especially the high school kids--they were the hardest things ever. So and Dad was, when one of his friends was killed at Guadalcanal, it took him a long time to get over that, because it was his best friend. So, yeah, they were really close. Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: And so you said your family then moved to Tacoma and then '48 came to Kennewick? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Came back to, yeah, it's cause Dad got a job at the--actually, we stopped for a year in Prosser, lived with grandparents until we got, finally bought a piece of property in East Kennewick. And then he had a house built. And we lived with Herb and his family on East Fifth Street while the house was being built on East First Place. So eventually got moved in there and spent--that's where us kids grew up right there, at East Kennewick, so. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: And what did you think of Kennewick when you came back, when you moved in? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Oh, just immediately there was guys to run around with and we just formed a bond right there. We were the four musketeers. We would—[LAUGHTER] There were no gangs back then, I guess we were about as close as you could get to a gang, I guess. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Yeah. I guess I asked, what it would feel like being in the Tri-Cities knowing that a lot of the people in the area were working, out at the Hanford site, which is where your family used to live? Have any feelings about that? Does it seem a little odd at all or strange or? What are your thoughts about that? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Well, we didn't really think about it that much. Most of the activity was closer to Richland, in the Camp Hanford area. And right out there where the town site was there was never any--It just happened to be in the middle of the condemned area. Yeah, I don't think we ever resented. We were too young to work up resentments at that point. We were having too much fun growing up in East Kennewick. Because back then East Kennewick went clear out to Finley, you could roam forever out through there. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: So are there anything that I haven't asked you that, or any event, or memory or family story that you haven't had a chance to talk about yet that you'd like to? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Oh, it's one of those things that you might wake up at 2 o'clock in the morning and say, Oh, yeah I should've said that. [LAUGHTER] But right now I just can't draw on anything, anything else. It was just with all the aunts and uncles and the friends, it was just a wonderful time of life, a wonderful place to have been a part of, for a little while, anyway. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: So I do have one other question. So I know your father and grandfather and your family went to Tacoma. What happened to, say, cousins and aunts and uncles, cousins, other families you're related to? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Well they, yeah, mom's oldest brother ended up in California as a bulldozer operator. The twins, one twin, Aunt Mildred, never did give married, and Aunt Margaret married a wheat farmer out of Walla Walla. Let's see, Aunt Babe married Uncle Doc Jones from Tacoma. They lived in Tacoma, lived out their years in Tacoma. And, see, Uncle Arthur worked on the fire department in the Seattle fire department. Let's see, on Dad's side, Herb ended up running a Chevron station right down at the end of Washington Street there in Kennewick, and later on moved to Spokane and ran one up there in Dishman. And Uncle Paul moved to San Bernardino and passed away down there, after raising a family. Let's see. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: So did all the Brinsons then go to Tacoma, pretty much? Your uncles as well? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Generally, in that area, yeah. Uncle Albert ended up in Renton and raised his family. His son Gary is the—Gary Brinson of the Brinson Fund, you know. Multimillion. [LAUGHTER] He had to build a building there on the WSU campus for the business college, I guess you'd call it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: But he was younger than you, correct? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Oh, yeah. Just a few years, yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: So did he live out at Hanford at all? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: No. They all grew up in Renton. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: And then what about the Moulster side? Were they still living in Hanford when the government came in during the war? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because that's when Grandpa had to drop the depot agent job. Retire from the Milwaukee Railroad and move to Prosser, so. And I don't know who was, if Aunt Margaret hadn't married Uncle Bud at that time, so. They were in the, yeah, she and Aunt Millie both joined the Navy, that's right. They were both in the Navy ‘til the end of the war, so. So that's where they went. And so Uncle Arthur was also and flew in the--whatever aircraft that was. He was a navigator bombardier off of a carrier airplane of some sort. P-40 or something like that. Forces that have survived. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Now, did you or any of your family end up working at the Hanford site? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Dad worked at the fire department in Richland for the rest of his career there. Central fire station. When I got out of the Air Force, I spent a couple years at CBC and got into the physical chemistry laboratory out there, in 300 Area. Worked out there for 40, 42 years. Retired in 2000. Paid for my- [LAUGHTER] Put a couple of kids through school from working out there. Yeah, it was a good place to spend a career. Yeah. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Mm-hm. Is there any final thoughts about the old Hanford town or of your family--families, even the Moulster or Brinson family, and their experiences there? </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Oh, the biggest thing was just missing them all so much. Just because it was such a wonderful family to grow up in. So supportive and loving, and just getting together at a drop of a hat. So many get-togethers and camping trips. Yeah, I wish I could have grown up older there and had more memories of the old Hanford town, but. But that's the way things go. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: Well, I appreciate you being willing to come talk and share your memories and your family stories about Hanford and the community out there. I really appreciate it. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Well, I wish I could've helped you out more. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: This is terrific. You were great. Thank you. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: Okay, you're welcome. I'm glad you got a chance to talk to Mom there, that 12 years ago. </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Bauman: [LAUGHTER] </div> <div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX212019359"> Brinson: She made it to 97. </div> 300 Area Civilian Conservation Corps Hanford (Wash.) Kennewick (Wash.) Richland (Wash.) Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945 White Bluffs (Wash.) https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F67ab2275c27d2eb35de0d2ee444059a8.jpg 3cf5eafd07df622c79a7ce766d795c94 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Ff03c6f62ec6ecbb75d2e152e69b0a0cf.mp4 cca508797901a36664fbb38e718cd250 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pre-1943 Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Description An account of the resource Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert Bauman Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Lloyd Chalcraft Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Northwest Public Television | Chalcraft_Lloyd Chalcraft: Does this station go into Seattle? Camera man: No. Bauman: No. This is in Eastern Washington, I guess. Camera man: Yeah. This will get to-- Chalcraft: Why I asked that of which it's in, my brother lives in Seattle. Camera man: It will all be available online. Bauman: Yeah. And we can get you a copy. Camera man: I'm recording. Bauman: OK. We're going to go ahead and get started. Can you hear me OK? Chalcraft: I'm ready, just as long as I can hear you. What you're asking, see. Bauman: OK. Let's start by having you say your name, and if you could spell it also. Chalcraft: Lloyd-- OK. Lloyd Robert Chalcraft. Bauman: OK, great. And my name is Robert Bauman, and today's date is August 20, right, of 2013. Chalcraft: My hearing is a little holding me back. I can hear you, but you're a real quiet voice. Bauman: OK. And we're conducting this interview on the campus of Washington State University, Tri-Cities. Chalcraft: Yeah, that's correct. I mean, do I got to OK that? Bauman: No, that's OK. Well. Let's start if you could, by having you-- Chalcraft: Huh? Bauman: Could you tell us about your family and how your family-- Chalcraft: Got here? My family came to Richand, Washington in 1910 from Idaho. My granddad homesteaded in Idaho, and they came into Richland in 1910. And I can go into quite a little history there. My family, my uncle, my mother's brother was the first boy to die in World War I in the war. He was the first one to die in Richland in World War I. And I got a great grandmother buried down in this cemetery. She was buried there in 1917. Well, I got a lot a relatives between here and Kennewick. Bauman: What brought them to Richland? What brought your family to Richland? Chalcraft: What brought them to Richland? My granddad was up in Rexburg, Idaho on a farm, and they still got the land. My mother couldn't breath and they came down for a dry climate for my mother. And they came down here in a covered wagon from Idaho in 1910. And what do want? You want to continue on? Then, my mother graduated from Richland high school in 1918. She played basketball there, and then there was Uncle Frank. Bauman: And what was your mother's name and your grandparent's name? Chalcraft: Huh? Bauman: What was your mother's name and your grandparent's name. Chalcraft: Her maiden name? Bauman: Yeah. Chalcraft: Jamison. Her grandmother's buried down here across from Hapo. Her grandma Davidson, and well, I got a lot of relatives buried and kept between here and Kennewick. Bauman: Did her family have a farm here, then? Chalcraft: Did what? Bauman: Did they have a farm? Chalcraft: In Richland? Bauman: Yeah. Chalcraft: Yes. Well, my grandparents had a farm here. We had a farm here, and my uncle had a farm here. We had four different farms. Granddad had a big cherry orchard. Where his orchard was is where that locksmith is on Van Giesen. That was a part of their orchard. That was a prune orchard only it had cherries there. I went to school myself. I went to school here eight years, where now that little grade school is here. It used be called Richland Grade School, but it's not what's out down there south of Richland. Later in life, my boy played basketball for Richland. My boy, he was on the Richland State Basketball Champion when they beat Pasco. Do you remember that? For the state basketball. My boy, he played football and basketball for Richland High School. I graduated from Kennewick High School. See, we moved out. The government come in and took all this land over, and we moved to Kennewick. Bauman: And how old were you then? Chalcraft: I was about eighth grade. Bauman: And what do you remember about that time? Chalcraft: Huh? Bauman: What do you remember about that when you first heard that the government was going to come in 1943? Chalcraft: People were pissed. People were mad cause they come in here and took this land over. They practically stole the land. I mean, people were really shook up. Do you know I mean? They didn't know what was going on. It was like an invasion. You seen army trucks, the DuPont surveyors. I saw the plane that I think this guy-- they flew over this big scientist to pick this area out. I don't know if I would guarantee it, but they were looking for a place of vacant land. And that Columbia River is the key. I remember that plane flew over. There was a Navy base in Pasco, but this plane was a big transport plane. These scientist were looking over that area. Bauman: And do you know how much money you're family got for land? Chalcraft: For the place? Bauman: Yeah, how much money your family got? Chalcraft: They had a farm there with cherries. My family, we had three or four families. My granddad had that big orchard. They gave him $13,000 for a whole complete cherry orchard. They literary stole the land, which is here or there. We got $7,000 for our little place. It's on the corner-- we lived on the corner of Sanford and Van Giesen. Bauman: And how big was your place? How many acres? Chalcraft: It was 10 acres. My granddad, I think, was-- I've forgotten now exactly. 25 or 30 acres. Bauman: And what was his name? Chalcraft: TJ Chalcraft. Thomas Chalcraft. That was my dad's father. Then my granddad lived here. When they come down from Rexburg's, he opened a blacksmith's shop in 1910. Jamison, Hershel Jamison. Bauman: Oh, OK. Uh-huh. And so did your farm also have cherries on your farm? Chalcraft: Huh? Bauman: Did you grow cherries? Chalcraft: Yeah. We had cherries and asparagus. I've cut the damn asparagus. Bauman: Hard work. Chalcraft: Yeah. It kept me from dilly dallying. I was just a kid in school. Yeah. A lot of things-- my dad went to a federal land bank meeting in Prosser that night. And he come back to Mary and says, our government is going to take this property over and nobody believed him. About February 1st, or the approximate time, well, everybody started getting letters from the government. This property is under eminent domain, or whatever. There's another wording for it, but they're going to take all this property. By the way, in that school down here, that little grade school, they closed that. I got out of school a month early because the government took it over to make office space for it. And there was a schoolhouse where Carnation used to be, two story. I watched three years and they built that. This in before Hanford. There was a two story school there. There was a duplicate out here at White Bluffs Hanford. Everything and the toilets were outside. Bauman: So when did you move off the land then? What time in 1940? Chalcraft: Well, we moved off right away. We moved to Kennewick, my folks did. Let's see. We moved right away. They had to move because the government started moving them. You know, you don't understand. That's been 65 years ago. I get a little bit-- those numbers don't quite-- well, it was in '43 or '45. Well, hell no. The bomb was out here. [INAUDIBLE] is the one who built the Hiroshima bomb. So they dropped that bomb in '45, didn't they? So we moved out before that period. Well, we had to. About '43, I can't remember the dates. We moved out probably-- we'd haul over to Kennewick--my folks bought property on Kennewick Avenue. Are you acquainted with Kennewick? See, I own that Jiffy car wash. That's what's some of our land is when we move from Richland to Kennewick. Maybe you've had a car washed. It's isn't like-- I own the land or the building. I don't own the car wash. Hulberts have that. Bauman: Did you go to school in Kennewick? Chalcraft: No, I didn't. Which is immaterial. See, I went to school in Richland for eight years, and then I went to school in Kennewick for four years. Bauman: What do you remember about going to school in Richland? Do you remember any of the teachers, or how big-- Chalcraft: I had good teachers. I actually learned more from Mrs. Randolph in reading than most of these kids. Some of these kids go to school and they can't even read now. She was a little crippled lady named Randolph. And she taught us first grade. They had pretty good schools here. Actually, they did. And they told us you had to be a citizen in the United States before you could vote. Bauman: Did you walk to school or was there a school bus? Chalcraft: We had a bus. We had a bus. See, I lived about two miles down to Richland on Van Giesen down to Richland. We had a school bus. Yeah. They had three or four school buses. Bauman: And do you remember any of your neighbors? Chalcraft: Oh, yeah. Carlsons and Ericksons and Rudes. There was a lot of Ericksons. I think there was more Swedish people that lived in Richland than any other relative. Some of their homes-- My grandad helped build some homes here in 1918 that are still standing. Then, all the Swede's had pretty nice homes here. Maybe you're Swede. Are you a Swede? Bauman: No. Chalcraft: But anyway, the Swede's are a real progressive type people. OK, a little deal here. The boy, this cook, this vet's place down here, this cook Erickson, the name of the veterans' and Erickson was one of the sons of one of the people that lived here. And he went into the service, and he got shot down over the Mediterranean sea during the war. This little town had a lot of boys. We had, I can think, Don Culp was on the Arizona. He lived. His folks, well, his aunt was engaged to my uncle. But he was on the Arizona. Tommy Van Poulsen was on the California. This was at Pearl Harbor. The Mosier boy, he was on Guam. He got captured by the Japs. He was a prisoner of war for the total war. But Don Culp come off the Arizona and he went back to sea on a destroyer. And a storm come off the Philippines and they drowned. And Tommy Van Poulsen used to swim that river all the time. He swam off the Californian and got out. They were there where the Walmart has gone. This little town had a lot of people in the service compared for the population. Tom [? Handbe, ?] he lived in parts of Richland. He was killed in Normandy. Bauman: So how many brothers and sisters did you have? Chalcraft: I got one brother, no sisters. Bauman: Older? Was he older or younger? Was he older than you or younger? Chalcraft: He's 16 years younger. They thought she had a tumor. I mean, there was no kids between, you know what I mean, between-- 16 years olds, went to school. Hell, I was starting high school or last when he was born. But he lives in Seattle now. Bauman: So were you born in Richland, then? Chalcraft: Actually, I was born in Lady Lourdes in Pasco. I understand then there was no hospitals in Richland. And there was no hospitals in Kennewick. Mine was born in Kennewick, but there was a midwife. The only hospital here was in Pasco, Lady Lourdes. See, I was born in '29, but that was the only-- my brother was born at the Lady Origin, Pasco. My boy was born in Richland. I got a son that played basketball for Richland. And he was born in the Kadlec Hospital down here. He played against Pasco when they played-- I don't know if you were around here, Pasco and them played for the state championship. Bauman: So the community of Richland, when you grew up, do you remember any of the businesses that we're here at the time or anything like that? Chalcraft: Huh? Bauman: Do you remember any of the businesses that we're here? Chalcraft: Oh, yes. We had Ralton's Drugstore. John Dam had a store, and that park out there is named after John Dam. [? Yiddick ?] had a store here. Hugh Van [? Dyne ?] had the tavern. And Rex Bell had a service station. I can remember, I could go down the street and Phil Charmin, he was a barber, and he's buried right beside my dad down this whole cemetery. And as you go down to the park, there's a brick building sitting there. It's two story. And the bank got in trouble. The banker went to jail in Walla Walla, because in 1930 the bank went bust. And at that time it was state controlled. See, federal took it after Roseville come in, but the banker went to jail. He went to Walla Walla. Bauman: What was his name? Chalcraft: Huh? Bauman: Remember his name? Chalcraft: Yup. Nelson. You know what I mean? I don't know if his brother's still around or not, but anyway this was back in 1930. I don't know if it was big or whatever. The bank was closed when I-- Bauman: Your father was at some point then on the board of directors-- Chalcraft: Huh? Bauman: Your father was on the board of directors of the-- Chalcraft: He was on the-- Bauman: --federal land bank, or something like that. Chalcraft: Yeah. If you worked-- well, he's kind of a officer with a blind bank. We had a chicken hatchery we used to hatch baby chickens to besides our farm. Bauman: And your farm, you grew mostly cherries and asparagus? Chalcraft: Huh? Bauman: On your farm, you grew mostly cherries and asparagus. Chalcraft: Yeah, we did that. I picked lots of cherries and cut asparagus. These kids nowadays would think that was torture. Bauman: Do you remember any special community events? Chalcraft: Huh? Bauman: Do you remember special community events or gatherings, picnics, any of those sorts of things. Chalcraft: Any special what? Bauman: Special events. Community events. Any celebrations the community had or anything like that growing up. Chalcraft: Not really. Not here. Most of the celebrations were in Kennewick. You know in this little town, small little town-- Oh, yeah. There's a boy named Shiftner. He was in the death march out at Carregador. I think it was Shiftner. There was quite a few soldiers. I still don't remember them all that-- this Comstock, there's a street here in Richland. I don't know if that's-- I think he was from Pasco are Richland, but he died in the service I think. See, this park is named after John Dam across from the federal building. And John Dam had a grocery store here. There were two grocery stores here. And they had a place they made ice. You know, everybody didn't have something to make ice, but they'd freeze this water and make ice. And people would get ice out of it. Ice house. And Phil Charmin, the barber, used to run that. Bauman: What sorts of things, growing up, what sorts of things did you do for fun? Chalcraft: Huh? Bauman: What sorts of things did you do for fun growing up? Chalcraft: What did we do for fun? Well, we'd swim. We'd swim in the irrigation ditch or whatever. And where uptown Richland was right now, that was a swamp. There was mud that deep. And where uptown Richland is there was an irrigation ditch running through it. That ditch still runs. We'd go down there. It wasn't very deep, but it was a place to go swimming. We called it swimming, because we were told not to go in the Columbia River when we was kids. Well, that river was cold then, because there was no much dams below, you understand? More free flowing. It mad a difference. Bauman: Did you do much fishing or hunting? Chalcraft: Yeah. Hunting pheasant here was good. It was good pheasant hunting. There was no deer here, but there used to be-- we know it well. We hunted pheasant and the ducks. Oh, yeah, a lot of that, cause this all was asparagus field and open. People from Richland would get shook up when the people from Kennewick would come over and shoot their pheasant. [INAUDIBLE] But there was good hunting here, and everybody knew everybody and go hunting. But you'd normally need a dog. And that asparagus is tall, and you damn near needed a dog to get your pheasants. One time an airplane landed down in that pasture. What the hell-- where the riding academy used to be. The plane landed out there. That was another, well, it wouldn't be too important, but I remember everybody went down to steal gas out of the plane. Somebody said that burnt their motors up. I don't know, that aviation gas. Bauman: When you were growing up-- Chalcraft: I played a little basketball. Nothing big. Bauman: When you were growing up, did the farm you grew up on, did you have electricity. Chalcraft: Oh, yes. We had electricity. But when we first moved we had a hand pump, then we got electricity come in. Bauman: What about a telephone? Did you have a telephone. Chalcraft: Yeah. And the neighbors-- we had a phone, but a lot of neighbors didn't. They'd come over and borrow your phone. A lot of them wouldn't even offer to help pay the bill, but they'd use the phone. In them days, Mrs. Meredith, you had to go through a telephone operator. And Mrs. Meredith, she was kind of the-- and she knew all the gossip. But she was pretty god darn good though for emergencies. People would call in an you know what I mean? Then Brown Telephone in Kennewick bought them out. I guess they owned that at that-- Bauman: Now, did you also work at Hanford at some point? Chalcraft: Huh? Bauman: Did you work at Hanford at some point. Chalcraft: I did, yeah, 20 years. Bauman: Where did you work? What area? Chalcraft: I worked in the reactors. I got cancer. I'm fighting cancer right now. Bauman: When did you work at Hanford and which reactors did you work in? Chalcraft: I worked at all of them. Bauman: And what years? When did you start? Chalcraft: I worked with the reactors. I was nothing too important out there, but I served a-- And then I got drafted in the army. I went to war. During the Korean, I got drafted. I was working though, 'til I got drafted in the army. Bauman: And what sort of work did you do out there? Chalcraft: Oh, different work. Handled uranium and all that. It was just, you know what I mean? I've done better investing. I wasn't an engineer type. I've done pretty well as an investor. Mostly these people sit on their butt around here, and maybe I shouldn't be saying that. That's probably getting cocky. But anyway, these houses sold cheap around here in Richland. These duplexes are selling for $7,000. I had bought one. I sold it here a while back for $130,000. But you know, that was time goes along. But the government practically gave these houses away. This was after Hanford produced the bomb. But these ranch houses, all of them went real-- government unloaded them pretty cheap. I've seen a lot of changes here. Bauman: I'm sure. What are some of the changes you've seen? Chalcraft: Huh? Bauman: What are some of the changes that you've seen? Chalcraft: All these houses all over. Well, yeah, what else? More people. You understand, Richland was a very small town, and you had to count the farms. The town or Richland itself was very-- well, I better there was over 100 people here. Maybe a little bit more, but I didn't live in Richland. See, we had the farms around it. All the Swede's had homes. They were good farmers. Bauman: So you worked at Hanford in what, the '40s and '50s? Chalcraft: Huh? Bauman: You worked at Hanford in the 1940s, 1950s? Chalcraft: I went to work there in 1950. 1950 in the fire department. I worked in the fire department for a while out there. Then I worked in reactors. I'll tell you a little story. Before the government-- the day the government come in and bought this property, we played ball. I was going to Richland grade school. We went out to White Bluffs and played basketball. And about a few days later, the word came down that the government was taking it over. You understand that Hanford, Richland, one thing probably they know, but I know, there were usually cemeteries in White Bluffs and Hanford. The government dug all of those up. You understand why? You think about it? How could they let people go there if there's top secret stuff? How could they let people go out there and wander around the cemetery. There'd be all kinds of people wandering around, wouldn't there? The government removed all of them bodies. Some of the families got the bodies. But most of the bodies were moved to Prosser. And then they were going to dig up this cemetery in Richland but they decided they didn't need to. I had people buried in there. My dad's buried down there in this cemetery. My mother and dad were divorced. My mother is buried on that by-pass. But anyway. Bauman: I wonder if you have any other memories or stories from growing up in Richland that you haven't shared yet that you want to talk about. Chalcraft: Hey, gotta go. You think of a lot this stuff after you've stopped. OK, I'll tell you a little story athletic-wise. The bombers, there was no bombers. Let's go back. When I played basketball in high school before Hanford, they called them the Bronx, The Richland Bronx. And the colors were black and red. And now, they're green and gold. OK, I'm just telling you what happened. They were called the Richland Bronx. Then what happened, when Richland moved in they called them the Beavers. Well, they couldn't call them bombers, you understand? Well, it could've been done. But they call them-- that's after Hanford moved in-- they changed the colors and they called them the bombers. But their colors are green and gold. But when I was in high school, I didn't go to high school. I went up to eighth grade there. But they were the black and red. Then Richland come in and they changed them to green and gold and they called them the beavers. Then after, well, later on, they become the bombers. They couldn't have said bomber, I don't think. Bauman: So when, actually when the government came in 1943 and told you you had to move, did you know why? You know, what was happening? Chalcraft: What was happening? Bauman: Yeah. Chalcraft: It's a good question. No. It was rumor heaven. A lot of people thought they'd come in here for all-- well, to make toilet paper for one thing. Well, anyway. They hit a little natural gas out here on the Horse Heavens. Not Horse Heavens, out there at Bridal Snake. They thought they'd come in, but just that people real naively, understand. You look at it. All that come in here, my god, millions of dollars. Even the army moved trucks in here. Everybody moved in, and they sure as hell didn't bring all that in just to hit natural gas out here. Well, I didn't know until the day when they dropped the bomb. The guy that lived in White Bluffs, he come in and says, I've found out what they built Hanford for. But what they've built is enough to burn those Jap's ass right off. That was his very words. His folks owned property at White Bluffs-- Hanford White Bluffs. And there used to be a little bus that you went from down Richland up to, there they called it, Sagebrush Annie. I was only up there once when I lived here. Until I went to work out there. I was out there at that basketball game. Well, I was just a kid. I didn't drive. And that's quite a ways out there. Most of the people in White Bluffs and Hanford, they went over to Yakima to shop for groceries. There was a story out there in Hanford or White Bluffs. There was a grocery store. There was two high schools out there at that time. Maybe you knew that. And then they merged into one, because you know, I think, yeah. I'm trying to think of different-- I wish sitting in Richland the day they bombed Pearl Harbor, right in Richland at Thayer Drive. And it come over the news that they'd bombed Pearl Harbor. Bauman: On the radio? Was it on the radio? Chalcraft: Yeah, radio, we didn't have TV then. This was '41. That was quite a shock. When they said Pearl Harbor in Hawaii, and I was quite of a history buff. Some of these people still don't know what happened. But I knew we was going to go to war. And they hit Pearl Harbor that day. That's the day Culp got off the Arizona any other boy swam out from the California. Well, I'll tell you a little side story. It didn't fit into Richland. But my uncle was in Pasco, and there was a guy sitting on a bar over there. And my uncle, he was in the Navy, World War I. He thought he was Japanese, and my dad was with him. And he was going to beat the hell out of that Jap. Come to find out, he was a China man. You know what I mean? This is right after Pearl Harbor? There's been a few other people that was picked up here. One or two guys here in this town were out hollering Hail Hitler. The United States Marshall picked one of them and shipped him back to Leavenworth. Nobody bothered him but the day Pearl Harbor was hit, things opened up. They let him, when they were fighting Great Britain, that was a great deal. Germany was beating the hell out of Great Britain. But the day Pearl Harbor was bombed, that changed the atmosphere. This one kid would come to high school and brag about the Germans picking the hell out of the British. But anyway, he shut up after Pearl Harbor. Bauman: So what was Richard like as a place to grow up? Chalcraft: Huh? Bauman: What was Richland like as a place to grow up? Chalcraft: What was Richland like, what? Bauman: As a place to grow up? Chalcraft: It was a kind of a quiet little quaint town. My uncle, he had never drove. He drove a team of horses. He drank a little beer. He trained horses. It wasn't a regular policemen. Bill Perry had a server station here. He was the town Marshall. Things were quite quaint. You know what I mean? There was one guy that got in a fight with a guy, and I guess he died. That was hot news in those days. This guy died from a fistfight. Actually, things were pretty quiet at that time, I guess. But we did go through World War I here. There were two or three boys that got in that one. Bauman: You mentioned earlier some of the businesses in Richland. What about churches? Chalcraft: What? Bauman: Do you remember any churches at the time? Chalcraft: Churches? OK there was a Methodist Church, and a holy roller. I remember they had a holy roller church right in downtown Richland, and they'd get up and role on the floor. One guy was looking through the window, they had curtains over it and somebody pushed the barrel and he rolled right in with the holy rollers. Yeah, there was a Methodist Church right across from where the school was. And I remember when they'd have funerals there. I remember one women died, Mrs. [? Kayler. ?] We remembered that. It was a different name. Well, my grandparents are buried out at that cemetery. There was no Catholic church. The Catholic church was in Kennewick. They had a holy roller church. I guess a-- what's that one? I'm not a great church goer. I went to the Methodist church a little bit. Most of the churches were over in Kennewick. Bauman: Well, is there anything else you want to share? Chalcraft: Huh? Bauman: Anything else you want to say about growing up in Richland? Chalcraft: Growing up now? Bauman: No. Anything else that you want to say about your time growing up in Richland. Chalcraft: About what? Bauman: About your time, your childhood. Chalcraft: Anything else you want to say about it? Bauman: Well, I played a little basketball here. I was no-- my peak come when my son won the-- my son, he was good enough to play. He was on the state champ. He was good enough to get a football scholarship at the University of Montana. He wanted to go to Oregon. Oregon wanted him to go, but they wanted him to go to Columbia Basin and play a year and then go. He didn't get an offer for Washington State or Washington, but he did get an offer from all those big sky, Montana, Idaho, to play ball, football. But in Oregon he kind of-- Oregon says, you go to Columbia Basin. Columbia Basin at that time had a football team if you remember. They wanted him to go over there for one year. He had a chance to go back. I'm bragging a little on his college. He had a chance to go back to one of the big east schools-- they egg head schools. You know what I'm talking about. He was pretty good in grades. But he ended up going to the University of Montana. He could've went to the University of Idaho, but then he got hurt. Bauman: Well, I want to thank you for coming in today. And share the memories of growing up in Richland. Chalcraft: You know, a lot I've missed or thought about. A few names you hate to bring in, you know what I mean? Now, I have to ask you guys something. Is this going to be the air? Bauman: It could be. Camera man: Right. Parts of it will be. Chalcraft: Huh? Bauman: Parts of it. Chalcraft: What did he say? Bauman: Parts of it probably will be. Chalcraft: March what? Bauman: Parts of it. Chalcraft: Part, not all of it. Bauman: Right. Chalcraft: Well, that's fine. You always got somebody-- You know, I've been a little-- I'm not too bragging-- but I've been a little successful. And I found out people, if you get a little successful, they'll run you down a little bit. Location The location of the interview Washington State University - Tri-Cities Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:38:11 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 5276 kbps Hanford Sites Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview 1950-1975 Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1910-2013 Names Mentioned Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community. Chalcraft, TJ Chalcraft, Tom Jamison, Hershel Dam, John Charmin, Phil Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Lloyd Chalcraft Description An account of the resource An interview with Lloyd Chalcraft conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection. Subject The topic of the resource Richland (Wash.) Hanford (Wash.) Richland (Wash.). Public Schools Richland (Wash.)--Politics and government. Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-05-18: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.] Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 8/20/2013 DuPont Hunting Kennewick (Wash.) Richland (Wash.) swimming White Bluffs (Wash.)