1
50
35
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Earth Day
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project
Language
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English
Identifier
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RG1D-4A / T.2010.052.039
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Faba9e97aec616830c9e42cff6516b56a.3gp
b89a3f8cdd15172749d2c464df4b4727
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
57th Hanford-White Bluffs Reunion
Subject
The topic of the resource
Reunions
Description
An account of the resource
A video recording of the annual Hanford-White Bluffs reunion of former residents and descendants of those Euro-American communities removed from the Hanford Site during the Manhattan Project
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project
Language
A language of the resource
English
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F8e771ead86a8c66d2d01355065f2e7c9.mp4
66705502c476202330e7a8d568187991
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Terry Andre
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Betty Dietz, Marylee Hall, Bob Hall, Viola Baker, Nancy Minhear Simons
Location
The location of the interview
CREHST Museum
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TITLE: Trailer Talk - 2 Outside the Trailer
INTERVIEW DATE: May 9, 2002
INTERVIEW LOCATION: CREHST MUSEUM
INTERVIEWER: Terry Andre
INTERVIEWED: Betty Deitz, Marylee Hall, Bob Hall, Viola Baker, Nancy Minhear Simons
TRANSCRIBER: Robert Clayton
TERRY: Today we are focusing on living in the trailers. Actually I want to talk about activities outside the trailer because last week we talked about activities inside the trailer and how small it is so I’m assuming a lot of things…life experiences happened outside the trailers. So what I would like to do is go through and have you introduce yourselves, tell us when you came here, and what sort of trailer you lived in.
BETTY: I’m betty Deitz. I lived in a trailer at Hanford. I don’t remember what kind of trailer it was. I lived with my parents and my sister and her husband lived in another trailer close by. She had 3 little children and we both rode the bus lot. That’s how I met my husband. My husband was a bus driver in the trailer camp.
TERRY: What year was this?
BETTY: ’42 and ’43
MARYLEE: I’m Marylee Hall and we didn’t come until 1948 so we were in the other camp. Which is just North Richland Camp is what I supposed they called it. We had a 4 month okd baby so we didn’t get outside a lot. Except I did a lot of walking because that was about all there was to do. Our trailer was 16 foot so with 3 people it wouldn’t have held another one.
BOB: Yeah I came with her. We came in ’48 after the flood.
TERRY: Why did you come here?
BOB: Oh I graduated from college. This was my first job. I just graduated from college. It took me 8 years to get through college. I had a little trip through Europe. I had to finish that government supported trip through Europe. I graduated from college and this was my first job. I came out here and you talk about the outdoors everything North of Pasco was either wheat or sagebrush. We took a bus ride to Yakima and there was some more sagebrush. I thought this was the end of the world and I’m not sure what Marylee thought.
VIOLA: My husband came to work here. He was a mechanic and a glass cutter. He worked 10 hours a day and we lived in al little dinky 16 footer including the trailer hitch. And I had 2 girls ane 9 and Suzy was just a year and a half but she was a busy body. She visited everybody she could. She was so friendly and everybody loved her. Joanie went to school just half a day. She would go early in the morning and come home at noon and take care of Suzy while I went to the grocery store. I had to go every day. The trailer was so small we just had a small ice box for the milk and butter and meat and stuff like that so I had to go to the store everyday. And go to the post office and then was the longest lines. In fact I’d stand in line and I wouldn’t know where I was by the end of the day. Like I’d go there as soon as Joanie come home.
TERRY: And how old was your older daughter? Was she in kindergarten?
VIOLA: She was nine. She was in the fourth grade.
TERRY: So they only went a half day?
VIOLA: Yes. It was still dark when she left for school. It was a big school and everybody went there.
TERRY: And what year was this?
VIOLA: We came out September 17, 1943. And then we lived there 14 months. And then we had to get out. They wouldn’t live in the trailer camp anymore. So we moved to Kennewick. And we lived in a government trailer they wouldn’t let us live in our own trailer. It was in a big covered yard and a high fence but it didn’t help because somebody came in my trailer and took my little sink off. Just tore it off the wall and just took it.
TERRY: Now you said a couple of things that made me think of something that I want to ask the others about also. Ok? You mentioned about your daughter going to school a half day. Was that something they had to do because the schools were so crowded they had to do half days? And did that happen with you also?
BOB: No our son was 3 months 4 months old so he didn’t go to school.
TERRY: So you weren’t in the trailer court long enough for the school to…?
BOB: That’s true. There was a school in North Richland. What was it…John Day? John Ball that’s it John Ball in North Richland. I have no idea but it was crowded because everything was crowded.
TERRY: Do you remember anything about the schools?
BETTY: My brother and sister went to school. They rode the bus into Richland to go to school. In ’43.
TERRY: Afterwards Viola has brought some pictures and maybe we can spread them out and you can tell us about them. Another question that came up while you were talking. The feeling of neighborhood. It sounds like having kids made it easier to make friends. Why don’t we talk about the feeling of nationhood and community.
BETTY: It was very small. It was just lots….trailer-trailer-trailer.
TERRY: So you got to know your neighbors quickly?
BOB: You shared the showers. You shared the bathrooms. You shared the laundry. You shared everything.
BETTY: And you stood in line for everything. The grocery store, mail, the bank, the drugstore everything you stood in line for.
TERRY: That was another one of the questions I had. About standing in line I heard people spent a lot of tome standing in line. Viola mentioned that she went every day to grocery shop. Was that what you experienced too?
MARYLEE: We ha a little refrigerator.
NANCY: You had a refrigerator?
MARYLEE: Oh yes.
BETTY: She was in the other trailer court.
TERRY: Did you have An ice box? Could you explain because we have some young people probably have never seen one.
BETTY: Well it was built insulated and everything so that it stayed cold but there was a place in there thaat they put a block of ice. And there was always a drain and you always had to empty the pan underneath. And replace the ice.
VIOLA: We didn’t have to buy our ice. It was a block of ice.
TERRY: The government provided the ice? We are talking about ice boxes and neighborhoods.
MARYLEE: I think we were a little more uptown than that because we did have an electric refrigerator. It was very small and didn’t hold much so I got out and went to the grocery store every day too. At least you could get out.
TERRY: What about families where both mom and dad worked? I’m sorry introduce yourself
NANCY: Sorry I’m late I got hung up on a business deal. My name is Nancy Simons. I came here in February 1943 which was very early. And we were in of course the very first trailer court. And talking about ice in the days when we came we had to drive to White Bluffs to buy ice. Later I think I think they did have a place there where we could buy ice.
MARYLEE: This lady was one of the first ones in the camp ground.
BETTY: Pretty much before they gave the letters of condemnation.
NANCY: There were still people here I mean in the houses in this area. There were still people living in the houses when we were there. You know it was very sad to be living in a very small trailer, much smaller than the one out here, and watch them with big cranes hanging off those big machines drop those heavy balls on those gorgeous old farm houses 2 and 3 stories porches all around sleeping porches and all the greenery and shrubbery everywhere. And they destroyed those houses because they had to. But there bikes and wagons and chickens and all kinds of stuff when we came here that had been left. And the people were just barely moving out.
TERRY: One of the questions I had was did you have any friends where both the mom and dad worked. And if so who stood in line?
VIOLA: No my neighbors didn’t work. My next door neighbor she had 3 little girls. And she was a sweet girl and we were friends. In fact she needed a stove in her home made trailer. It wasn’t a boughten trailer. Ours was boughten and it had a little wood stove. But we didn’t want that because we couldn’t keep warm. Stay up all night and feed the little stove. So we got a Barnes oil heater from Seattle and the bus driver delivered our stove. And then the girl next door bought our trailer. She must have stayed up at night to feed that stove to keep her pretty little girls warm. But anyway we liked our Barnes in fact I still have the Barnes heater. No my daughter has it in her basement don’t you? (Her daughter responds “It’s in the garage”). It still works but we don’t use it. But it was a lot of experience believe me. But we managed. We ate well. We lived there and the next spring we couldn’t live there anymore. We had to move. Our trailer was put in a fenced in place. And we moved in to a government trailer and we lived there 5 months. And then after we got into Richland we moved in to a pre-fab. You know what a pre-fab is. They are remodeled now they look better. (Laughter) But we were happy to be there. We lived there 5 months and then we moved in to our “B” house. We bought the “B” house in fact I lived there 50 years in the “B” house. Until I moved to my youngest daughters she was my baby. And Joanie she went to Sacred Heart School in Spokane. And she was a registered nurse. She still lives there in Spokane. And her kids she had 3 kids.
TERRY: Well you know I want try to get us back to the time of the trailer courts. When you came you were one of the first ones right?
VIOLA: It was September 17th 1943. And I know the guards just didn’t tell us there was a lot of snakes there. It was kind of scary. But we lived there awhile.
TERRY: Let me ask these other people about that. You bring up you just bring up the greatest topics. (Laughter) Ok snakes and other critters did you have any problem with them?
NANCY: I don’t remember snakes I really don’t. By the time you came in September I think they had torn up so much sagebrush and so much more land. When we came we were in the little Richland town at Hanford.
VIOLA: When we were in the temporary trailer they didn’t have toilets that worked.
TERRY: So they didn’t have a bath house at the temporary one?
VIOLA: No it was just a long trough underneath and they come and cleaned that every morning. But finally we moved in to a nice bath house. There was a bath house at the end of each lot.
TERRY: What were the street names?
VIOLA: I don’t remember the names I just knew where to go.
TERRY: Let me see if others remember. I read something that indicated the street names were about like…oh they were just alphabet at that point oh ok. It has an address on it the ration book that you brought. One of the things that I had read was that some of the streets were named after war…There is a ration book right here if I may. This says section L block 3 lot 15. (Laughter) was there mail delivery or did you have to go to a central post office?
NANCY: There was no, no, no mail delivery. That brings up the address though I forgot that. You were you were in block lot and all of that stuff. And I think the streets were alphabetical.
MARYLEE: Our streets were A B C D because we lived at 47 D street I’ll never forget it. But the A was next to the river and it went towards George Washington. So we were really 2 blocks from George Washington.
TERRY: There are stories of people going into the wrong alphabet house because everything looked the same. Did that ever happen with the trailers?
BETTY: No because they weren’t the same. They didn’t look alike.
TERRY: Betty could you describe what your neighborhood looked like? Your neighborhood of trailers.
BETTY: Well like I said they were just one after another. Some of them had put up little fences. You know little picket fences around and some hadn’t. The trailer that we lived in was a used trailer. My mother and my brother and sister and I moved to Tacoma. That was as close as we could get from Denver. My dad came to work out here. And we moved to Tacoma and then finally got this trailer. Somebody left and he bought this trailer from somebody. And so then we lived in that trailer. Then my sister and her husband came and she had 3 little children. And I took care of the kids a lot. In fact my husband thought I was already married because I always had a child with me. (Laughter)
TERRY: And this is you met him on the bus. You were taking kids places.
BETTY: Yeah well we had to go to the post office and we had to go to the store. All of those things had to be done you know because nothing was delivered.
TERRY: Do you remember any families that were like single parent or both parents worked?
BOB: Wasn’t as common as it is now. Women did not work.
MARYLEE: They didn’t work outside of the home. We’ll put it that way.
BETTY: There was maybe a few waitresses
MARYLEE: They weren’t married though.
BETTY: No. The families lived in the trailers. Single people lived in the barracks.
NANCY: Married adults without children lived in the barracks or working women. Most of the working women lived in the barracks. A lot of women were here by themselves.
TERRY: It sounds like the mom’s job was to go stand in line somewhere.
NANCY: Storage in those trailers was so limited. And they were so small.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:46:05
Bit Rate/Frequency
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317kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Trailer Talk (Outside)
Description
An account of the resource
A group oral history detailing experiences of living in trailer camps in Hanford and the Tri-Cities area during WWII and the late 1940s.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
5/9/2002
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG1D-4A / T.2010.052.029
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F0d006e7c6d7e2663e0f2f595c7b4b72f.mp4
f0de6f5cef8cb1a68b2f909b82e1d0f8
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Terry Andre
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Bob Hall, Marylee Hall, Nancy Minhear Simons, Anita Mannery
Location
The location of the interview
CREHST Museum
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TITLE: Trailer Talk Inside
INTERVIEW DATE: May 2, 2002
INTERVIEW LOCATION: CREHST
INTERVIEWER: Terry Andre
INTERVIEWED: Bob Hall, Marylee Hall, Nancy Minhear Simons, Anita Mannery
TRANSCRIBER: Bob Clayton
TERRY: I’d like you folks to introduce yourself. Tell us where you lived during the time of Hanford. What brought you here briefly. And then I have some questions to get us started. This week is “Inside the Trailer” next week is “Outside the Trailer”.
BOB: I’m Bob Hall my wife Marylee is at the other end. We came in 1948 when I graduated from college. It took me a little while longer than usual to get through college. I had this government tour of Europe. We lived in a trailer at 411 D Street. It was a tiny camping trailer where the kitchen, dining room, and bedroom were all one room. And no bathroom. The bathroom was across the street. You’ll have to talk to Marylee about living indoors because I was working.
TERRY: You didn’t want to stay indoors much?
BOB: Not much if we could find somewhere else.
NANCY: I don’t know about you guys but I’m a little nervous today. Shouldn’t be. My name is Nancy Simons. I don’t know if any of you here in the audience and I bet some of you do know of the Minhear brats that were here early early. My name was Nancy Minhear later Simons which it is now. I moved here in February 1943 and that was fairly early. When we came here it was the old Hanford. And the reason we came here my dad owned a furniture factory in Illinois. They asked him to go up to Chinook Field and build some hangers. That kind of got in his blood and the money was good. So there was another job and another job and they were all pretty short. We ended up being in Camp Pendleton, California. When that little job finished this one was ready to pop.
ANITA: I’m Anita Mannery and I came as a young bride. My husband was sent over I came in ’45 and he was sent over to England and was in the war. He left on the East coast of course. I came to Missouri just in time to get in the trailer with my mother and my brother just younger than me who had just graduated from high school and my younger brother who was 9 at the time. My father had come here in September of 1943 which was when the project really started. He was here before there was any men’s barracks even. He was on the very beginning of the construction for the workers to live. He told mom that she had to sell the farm and animals and everything and buy a car and a trailer house to come out here. And she did all that. In some of my papers I found since she died I found the sales slip for the stuff they had in the auction. Because there was 5 of us living in a little trailer I don’t know how we slept. I can’t figure it out at all. My dad worked as a carpenter in construction. My brother who was younger than myself was a truck driver. And my mother worked making sandwiches for the workers. So she worked at night. She took care of all the buying of the groceries. I didn’t do much except go to work. I worked in the administration building as a messenger the lowest paying job on the project I imagine. But everyone worked. I never heard a lot of complaining. I worked 6 days a week 9 hours a day. I brought home a check for $33.39. And I didn’t have anywhere to spend it. I didn’t even want to drink Coke on the Coke breaks. It was more Cokes then than it was coffee. Coffee was rationed. And my younger brother polished shoes for the men and carried groceries for the women and did odd jobs. So everyone worked. And one time I got bored so what did I do? I waxed the floor 3 times in one day. (Laughter) Which wasn’t a big area.
MARYLEE: I’m Marylee Hall which my husband just spoke to. We came as he said in ’48 with a 4 month old baby. Moved into a 16 foot trailer. Bob worked shift work. It was great fun trying to keep the baby quiet during grave yard. But what I disliked the most was staying in that 16 foot trailer by myself all day long. It was not fun. We lived in the trailer court until a week before Christmas. Moved into a great big ranch house with no money to buy furniture from a 16 foot trailer. It was fun. And everybody was in the same shoes so we had lots of fun. We knew all of our neighbors. And if we didn’t know them we met them when the wind blew which was garbage day. We had to go out and find our garbage. (Laughter)
TERRY: This is great. What I would like to do is think about a typical day in the trailers. I visited the trailer that we have out here in the parking lot.
MARYLEE: It’s big.
TERRY: It’s big?
BOB: Oh yeah!
NANCY: I think ours was bigger than that. That’s got 2 rooms actually. That’s got a private bedroom.
TERRY: I guess that was luxury. Ok. Well one of my first thoughts as I noticed our Curation staff has hung a little rubber duck in the doorway to remind people to duck as you go in because the ceilings and the doorway are so low. Any stories about that sort of thing?
NANCY: I can tell you one. My dad built our trailer. We had a furniture factory in Champagne-Urbana Illinois which was a university town. And he was quite a craftsman so he built our trailer for hobbies. For going fishing and stuff. I brought a little picture of it which I thought was kind of interesting. The doorway was pretty low because dad went up to Chicago and got things like ice boxes and stoves and sinks and things like that so the door was standard at that time. However when we decided to move around with it and we had all kinds of people in there as company everybody bumped their head so my dad raised the ceiling of the trailer. He took the center panels you know like where the lights are and took it up like the old fashioned railroad cars. He put the long skinny lights along the side you know that you could open up for ventilation and let in day light. You still had to duck to go in but at least you could stand up. (Laughter)
ANITA: Well I’m going back to the Hanford days. There was so many trailers and then there was a bath house. The women were on one side and the men were on the other side. There were several wash basins and several stools and several showers on each side. And then at the far end was a laundry. And it had the concrete tubs to rinse in. And my mother and dad bought an old square Maytag with a ringer. They put it in the bathhouse where we went. Put out a coffee can and …you used the washer you put some money in. I don’t know how much they paid for it but that was living in the trailer. And behind us there was a young woman. She had twins. And she had at the end of her trailer, I don’t know how we slept, but at the end of her trailer she had bunks for her babies. And after a while my father built a lean-to on to the trailer and I bought a daybed and I slept outside on that daybed. And I bought a good wool blanket when it started getting cold.
Of course my husband was wounded the second time before the Battle of the Bulge. So I left and I guess my brother slept there after that. When you got a notice that your husband was wounded they didn’t bring the telegram to your house. There was no telephones. So I went to work and I was at work a few minutes and they came and told me…called me to the front and gave me the telegram. And I had dreamed the night or two before that I had that telegram in my hand. So I just tore it open and looked to see if it was seriously wounded or killed because I knew it was one of the two. And it was seriously wounded. I went back and because I had ditto ink I time stamped everything that came in on the project. And I had ditto ink on my arms so I went to the closest restroom to gather myself together a little bit and to wash my arms. I took off my watch my husband had given me before we was married and I forgot to pick it up and of course I never did get my watch back. But it didn’t bother me at all and that day I did the work of 3 people because the other 2 were absent. So I didn’t take even 15 minutes off from the job. And then after he came back he got well enough out of the cast and everything. He was wounded through the knee and was in a body cast and in the hospital in England. And when he got well enough they sent him to the United States on the Queen Mary.
And I quit my work and went to be with him. I guess that finished my job at Hanford. But anyhow we came back then in ’47 and lived in Richland. We moved in with my parents and younger brother. They had a two bedroom pre-fab. We had one baby by then and was expecting the second one. Then here came my aunt and uncle to that two bedroom pre-fab. So my mother put in for a larger house and she got it. But whenever you are doing what you need to do you can take a lot of inconveniences and still enjoy life. And of course when you are young as I was then nothing mattered but just enjoying life.
TERRY: One of your comments brought up something that I hadn’t even thought about. It’s not on my list but keeping in touch with other people. Obviously there were no telephones for the trailers.
MARYLEE: The telephones on that… there was a public telephone hooked on to the bathhouse when we got there in North Richland.
ANITA: I never had anyone to talk to. I didn’t use the phone two times I don’t imagine.
TERRY: Did you have a comment about keeping in touch with someone? To me not having a phone is unheard of.
MARYLEE: I bet you can’t imagine not having any scotch tape either. (Laughter)
TERRY: Boy do I feel special. (Laughter)
ANITA: In my job as a messenger when there wasn’t anything to timestamp I wasted scotch tape. I didn’t even know there was such a thing as scotch tape before I came here.
MARYLEE: There was lots of life without scotch tape.
ANITA: When I lived in the trailer court I was married and I wasn’t interested in any one area or social thing at all. My best girlfriend was a 16 year old girl and we’d go out on the swings. At the end of the park they had a children’s playground and I’d swing in the swing. And a few times my dad took the car and we went to Yakima. I went there when I was hunting for shoes. I wore out my shoes so I had to have some shoes. I went over to Pasco and Kennewick and then went to Walla Walla. And I went to Yakima and finally found some shoes. And they were red and I felt like the whole world was looking at my red shoes. Of course they weren’t. I had little feet and they just didn’t have them. And shoes were rationed too.
TERRY: What about storage? Thinking of shoes and thinking of you know all of the things what about storage? Where did you put things?
NANCY: You didn’t have very many things like we do today. You know we crave things and we store things and I fight trying to find a place for things everyday. There wasn’t a whole lot of room there really wasn’t. Let’s go back about communication and mail. I think it’s kind of interesting very few people were here as early as I was. Very few people know about the first post office at Hanford that we had.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Nancy you said you came in February ’43. Before the people had received the notices to leave. They received notices in March of ’43. Did you end up staying in Pasco when you first came?
NANCY: We ended up staying on the street on Park Street in Pasco. My dad brought his crew. And I think it was late February. It was getting close to the first of March. They had absolutely no place to put us in Hanford. They had no idea what they were going to do. They were just expecting a lot of people. So they parked us I think it was 5 trailers my brother says 4 but there was 5 trailers and they parked us underneath the big trees. If you know what Park Street in Pasco looked like then there were huge big trees. And that’s where we spent a week or two until they got a place to put us. And they moved us into what was the little tiny city park in this little old farm community town at Hanford. The park was a little speck of grass. And at the end of it was kind of a deck with an outdoor screen. And that’s where they got together and watched movies or whatever they had to watch in the outdoor theaters at that point in time. But that’s where we stayed and they then knocked down all the big houses all around us with the big cranes with the balls and scooped them up and built that big trailer court around us. It was dirty. There was lots of wind. It was a dry desert. There was no water. One of the times a big sand storm you couldn’t see the trailer next to us and we were parked close together. But storage was not very much. You want me to tell you about the normal morning in the trailer?
TERRY: Yes that would be a good idea.
NANCY: There was 6 of us and as soon as we got situated dad usually put up this thing like a deck. Then it was kind of like a little cabin pretty small. And he built the framework for bunk beds and went out and bought a couple of twins and that’s where the boys stayed. That’s where they slept and we got to store a few things and that’s where a little coat closet was built. We didn’t know how long we were going to be here so you didn’t put a lot of money into that stuff. But the typical morning of getting up and getting ready for school. Everybody up with the alarm clock. 4 of us kids grabbed our towels, our soap, our toothbrush and some cloths and headed for the bathhouse. We had to be out of there because where we were sleeping was the breakfast table and the 2 benches to sit on. Once we got out of there mom and dad could get up because you came in the front door and you had about that much room you had to walk sideways to get to their bed. If you had to get up in the middle of the night you were in trouble. You had about a foot space between the edge of their bed and the kitchen cupboard. You used to shinny out of there and go to the bath house. When we got back in every morning you cooked and washed dishes in a thimble because the sinks were so small. Hot soapy water wash cloths washed off the table and the counters because of all the changing of cloths and the dust and lint. Everything had to be scrubbed every morning before you could even think of getting food out and fixing breakfast. So by the time we’d get back all the beds would be made up and mom would have the breakfast started and the floor swept after everything was all scrubbed. So that was our beginning every day.
Like I said they really built that trailer park around us because we sat on that piece of land which was the only piece available out there. Believe me it was awhile before any other trailers started coming in. When they did we started getting a community and things like that. The first mail was to General Delivery. General Delivery was a shack like with a lean-to. So like when you go to the carnivals they raised up the front of it and you put a 2 by 4 underneath it and you stand up there and ordered your hot dogs and whatever. The mail was General Delivery in alphabetical order. You had like 4 lines so the alphabet was divided into 4 lines. Whichever you were was where you stood. They just had a box of cubby wholes back there. You gave them your name and they looked and sorted through the Ms to see if you had any mail and gave it to you. They did that every day. You knew when the mail came in. You knew when to go stand in line to go get your mail.
TERRY: What about this is going to sound so bad. I take care of the inside of the house and my husband takes care of the outside. What kind of division of chores did there need to be in order to keep the trailers maintained? I’d like to get a male perspective on that.
BOB: Neither the inside or the outside amounted to much. I do remember building a dug walk so that we didn’t have to wade across the mud to get to the bath house. We didn’t move in until September and it rained in the fall. As a matter of fact in ’48 it got cold. That was the last winter it really got cold. It was 20 below.
TERRY: What was your heating system?
BOB: I don’t remember what we heated with. It must have been propane. But I don’t remember. It could have been oil. But I don’t remember at all. It was so small it didn’t take a whole lot of heat to heat it.
TERRY: What about anchoring the trailer? Obviously you’re not going to build a foundation. How did you keep it from shifting and rolling when there was 3 people in it?
BOB: Yeah I think it was on jacks or blocks of some kind. Ours was a small camping trailer and it actually had wheels. But they must have had concrete or something to set on. We had storage a plywood box on the back of our property for storage. You know we didn’t have much so storage wasn’t much of a problem. You don’t have anything you don’t have to worry about storing it.
NANCY: In that second trailer court didn’t everybody have a storage compartment in the back of their lots?
BOB: I’m pretty sure they did.
Anita: At Hanford we didn’t have any.
TERRY: You know I bet there are some people who aren’t aware that there were 2 different…
BOB: Oh 2 different campgrounds? The Hanford Campground existed for the original construction in ’43 ’44. And it was at Hanford town site out north of Richland. And North Richland was where Battelle is now. As a matter of fact our trailer must have sat someplace not too far from where the Supply System offices are now.
MARYLEE: We lived on B Street and A was the river.
BOB: And in North Richland they had a school. It was on A Street. It was on the river side of the campground. West of George Washington Way there were some barracks. As a matter of fact I lived in barracks for about a month before Marylee came out. Then they had a bank a theatre. They had all kinds of facilities. Of course none of which exist now. A big fire house. Yeah they had stores. They had businesses. They had a trailer supply place that I used to go to buy parts.
TERRY: So it sounds like a lot happened between the time you got here. I’m jumping all around here. I’m going to ask one more question then I’m going to see if anybody here has a question. What about the kids? What did they play with? My son would be absolutely devastated without his Game Boy. (Laughter) So what did they play with if you didn’t have much storage to bring toys? What did they do?
NANCY: Well actually one thing I can tell you that I saw many kids do and the younger kids did in our family and they still have. The kids would take blocks of 2 by 4s. They’d find any piece of wood, hammer, and nails build some boats… find some mud puddles to float them in. You know we did get to go swimming in the Columbia River. We used to ferry across…now this is the ferry that most people don’t hardly even remember ever existed but we used to ferry across to pick fruit on the north side of the old Hanford. We used to ride the ferry a lot. And little kids could do that. The kids could go out…I was 13. I worked in the drug store making milk shakes.
TERRY: You worked at 13?
NANCY: Yeah At the little Hanford…yeah. Who cared?
ANITA: My brother was 9 and he carried groceries for the women from the grocery store to the car. And they would give him a tip. And he’d polish shoes. He was working all the time. I don’t think he ever played. And went to school. There was the play ground at the end of the park for the younger kids but I don’t ever remember him being there.
NANCY: If the kids could make a buck they did. And there was ways of making money out there. It was hot. People were thirsty. People worked commuting through the sand to go out to go to work. And they got off the buses and they walked to barracks. If you didn’t have family and a trailer you stayed in a barracks. The men in one and the women in the other. You used to see them holding hands through the fence a lot of times. But I was 13 my younger brother had to be about 10 ½ or 11 at the most. He and my older brother who was 15 and I brought an article where they interviewed my brother about the days at Hanford some of the stories that he remembered because he was a little older than me. But my younger brother they used to buy Nestles Orange all kinds of pop put it in a big old fashioned wash tub with ice. Chill it down…stand out there where the people were walking buy commuting. They’d make $50.00 in a day just in nothing flat till they were out of pop. And my older brother was 15. Right up here at the Jackpot was the first gas station in this town.
ANITA: That’s where you had to stop before you could go out to Hanford and they took your guns and your camera.
NANCY: And the only way to get gas was right there. And when gas came in they trucked the gas in 55 gallon barrels. And covered it in the barrels to keep it cool and watered it down until they could get it into the pumps. You had to wait like 3 blocks long was the line in order to get gas. And it was rationed. You could only buy so much. There was no such thing as filling up your car like he said in his article. He was offered $100.00 just to give somebody a tank of gas. Those days kids found things to do to keep themselves pretty busy. And if there was a buck to be made…shining shoes, doing anything, running errands for somebody, going to the grocery store for somebody that couldn’t. There was a lot of work. I think kids in those days didn’t know a lot about play.
BOB: One of the other things that kids did to entertain themselves was to play games. These kids that are playing computer games and all other things they are not playing with other kids. But it was more common for children to play with other children. We used to play kick the can.
TERRY: I imagine that kids you wouldn’t have to worry about them wanting to stay inside. They would want to get outside. The trailers would either be too hot or too cold. No air conditioning. So probably it would be more fun to be outside with a bunch of other kids and go do something than to stay inside. There was nothing to do inside. Scissors, coloring books, crayons. Do we have any questions in different areas?
AUDIENCE MEMBER: We interviewed a gal that was talking about how much time she had spent standing in lines to buy stuff. And she would have the older child baby sit the younger one when they got back. She said many days it was 6 to 7 hours of standing in line to get stuff.
NANCY: Yeah that’s very true. Everything was rationed. We saved all the aluminum foil off of packages of cigarettes. Talking about buying stuff and having things available. We used to save we gathered the aluminum foil off cigarette packs. Back in those days anyone who smoked the cigarettes were wrapped in paper lined aluminum foil. You could turn that in for a buck or two. Everything was rationed. My mom used to go out and find farmers that raised rabbits and buy rabbits and fresh chickens. When we came up here from California shoes were rationed. My dad built this trailer and we had a little wheel on the front of it. It was a 23 footer but the front of it was to be a bathroom which never really got completed. And so it was storage. It was a place to pile stuff. It had a window to the front and a window through the inside wall so it took up a lot of room. So the actual living in part was only like 18 feet. Shoes were rationed in California. When we came up we came through L.A. and we couldn’t get tires. We had blown out tires on the trailer and we couldn’t get tires. They sent us to a tire place and then another one and another one. And we actually ran into a black man who was on the radio show. I’m forgetting what his name was right now. But he was really known at that time. He worked at this tire store. They went out and bought 2 of those great big metal wheelbarrows that were heavy duty that construction outfits did. They took the tires off them and put them on the front dolly of our trailer because that was the only way we could get those tires. And when we were coming to Hanford to work on the Hanford Site and it was a government project we had priority. We had priority for gas getting up here. We had priority for tires getting up here.
TERRY: But this was even before people knew?
NANCY: My dad came with his crew and he was in the position where they were looking for him. So I think that’s why he knew about it early.
ANITA: And when my folks came. I mean when my mother came with the trailer my brother was just out of high school and we had some flat tires. And there was a time when that trailer was sitting clear down on the ground without any tires on it at all. She stopped in Cheyenne and got new tires and when she got out here at this new gas station what she was concerned was afraid that she had too many tires in the car. They were all wore out mostly but they were still tires and that was what she was concerned about. And when we got here we was running on an inner tube which used to be inside tires. I don’t know how my brother got that trailer up off of the ground. I couldn’t have done it.
TERRY: With the other trailer court was there the same problem with standing in line and with difficulty of services?
MARYLEE: I don’t remember ever standing in line for anything.
ANITA: Well they’re talking about the first days in Hanford.
MARYLEE: Alright but this 5 years later is what I’m talking about.
TERRY: Because in 5 years a lot changed.
ANITA: My dad stood in line to get mail in that little tiny place. But that was all taken care of before we came. I don’t ever remember getting any mail. We didn’t write letters.
NANCY: They eventually put in a big theater out there and a big Rec. Hall and the adults had you know like Bing Crosby and Bob Hope Big Bands Anything to keep people entertained.
ANITA: They put up a big auditorium and one place in the books it says 10 days and in another it says 12 days. They put up a big auditorium and there are pictures of the decorations for Christmas in ’43 or ’44 I think it was.
TERRY: Do we have any other questions?
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Ok life was a little bit tough over there some times and so how the government did things for you they based what they were doing for amenity purposes based off how long they would actually have you stay there for awhile. Do any of you have any stories about any of the amenities they brought in? You know like you said the theater and things of that nature. And did it really make a difference to keep you there.
NANCY: In these pictures of the trailer camp like in ’44 people were coming and going with the dirt storms and stuff a lot of people didn’t stick around. They would come fast and leave faster. They did all kinds of things to try and keep them. Of course once they got into Richland and they got into the housing that was different because they even furnished the coal in a lot of the housing. We lived really close to the office of the original 1944 trailer court. We were the first ones in and we were one of the first ones out and we were also close to the big Rec. Hall. We could hear the big bands playing being outside on a summer night. They had dances all those big bands everything you could think. Everything was long buildings kind of like barracks like the drug stores. Best that I can remember I remember the drug store. I don’t remember a whole lot about the grocery store but there were lines everywhere. There were lines for everything. The big mess halls had all kinds of great food. I was in them. I know my brother worked in one of them. You didn’t go hungry. They fed you very well.
ANITA: I have a pamphlet that was sent all over the country trying to get people to come out here. And it says…What will my rent be? You will either stay in a hutment or a barracks at $1.40 a week. This includes janitor service, your bed is made, your room is cleaned every day and the linens are changed once a week. The wash room in each barracks has a wash basin and plenty of hot water, showers, and toilets. Is the food good? You won’t get fancy food but it’s wholesome food for hardy men. You will eat in the mess hall family style. You always get plenty to eat. The meal tickets for 21 meals is $12.98 but they punch your meal ticket every time you go in. They made the sandwiches for the workers to take out on the job every morning. And that’s what my mother did was fix the sandwiches.
MARYLEE: I was going to suggest that after we moved into town in the ranch house we had lots of things. The rent, the coal, and the phones everything was very low priced. We paid about $50.00 for rent including we heated with coal. They delivered the coal. Even after we moved into town it was ’48.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: When they came along with all the trees how many trees did they let you get?
MARYLEE: They even planted them.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Especially since what happened is they bulldozed them all down. There was grass and green and everything and them it became dirt.
ANITA: The big trees along George Washington on that first street you could have all the trees you wanted but you had to plant them yourself. And my brother he was a teenager by then and so he helped the neighbors plant their trees. But to go back to how they got people to come here. They would go around the country getting people to come and build the barracks and everything and of course we didn’t know what we were doing. Security of course was #1 after they found out what we were doing here. They would advance your transportation money to your last job. And then each week they would take out a bit. And if you stayed for 4 months you received a check for that amount. If you stayed another 3 months you got another check for that amount. So they paid your transportation both ways if you stayed 7 months. They didn’t want you to go back. People did quit by the thousands.
NANCY: Going back to the very very early days when we came. Most of you probably know there was a little town of White Bluffs. It was farther on up the river and farther west. We had to go to White Bluffs for ice because in the trailer was an ice box. It looked very nice. It looked like a refrigerator. There were no electrical units in it. It was ice. And also to the drug store. If you were sick and needed medicine or needed anything from the drug store you went to White Bluffs. Fred English Drug Store was the name of the one in White Bluffs. And you probably know the Juvie here is named Fred English Center and as I understand it is named after Fred English from the old White Bluffs days.
TERRY: You said something earlier that caught my attention you said it was fun.
MARYLEE: It was the first home that we had. My husband was in college until June of that year. And then I came out a month later with the baby. And so it was our first little house for a 16 foot trailer. I can remember going to Portland for a friends wedding and I painted the floor of the kitchen area and then we got in the car and left to go to Portland. It would dry while we were gone.
ANITA: Everyone was interested in winning the war. They weren’t thinking about their personal comfort and if they did they went home. When Richland first started there wasn’t anyone here. People if they got sick or died they went back home. Everybody was young and this was when the baby boomers came along. Richland had the highest birth rate of anywhere in the nation in ’46 ’47 ’48. A lotta fun!
BOB: Yeah the average age of the population was fairly young. So indeed when Richland was first built the families were of a child bearing age.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Isn’t it now known as the fastest growing retirement area?
BOB: There is a lot of those old people that are still here.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Were there doctors for the people that were having babies and things like that?
BOB: Oh yes there were doctors. In North Richland there was a standard Army hospital. Well Kadlec Hospital in Richland was modeled after an Army hospital. There were doctors and they were enticed by the same kind of enticements that they used for the construction workers. And I’m sure there were a lot of them that came and went because of the conditions.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have a question I guess because I didn’t look at the pictures that closely. Did everyone bring their own trailer or were there some provided?
BOB: We didn’t. We bought one that was here. We bought one that somebody had moved out of and moved back home. That wasn’t uncommon.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: So when you first say you were going to come here you didn’t have something already set up for a place to live?
BOB: We came here from college. We didn’t have anything! The clothes on our back that was about it.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Did you buy the trailer or did you just rent it?
BOB: Yeah had to buy it…paid $700.00 for it which was a lot.
ANITA: My dad said if you come to bring the house because there’s none to buy.
BOB: Yeah in the town of Richland you couldn’t live here if you did not have a job on the project. And as a matter of fact some friends of ours he retired. When he was older he had to move to Kennewick. You absolutely couldn’t live in town. I would hear stories about people you know needing security to get across the Yakima River. It was that tight.
NANCY: One of the things I was thinking about …talking about people and friends and what you did. Like we said before everybody was in the same boat when people came. Some of the cartoons and some of things that you can probably remember seeing was “Hanford or Bust!” You had everything. You had people from all walks of life. Some who had enough money to buy a trailer when they could find one to buy. Trailers weren’t really that plentiful in those days. Trailers were actually camping and recreational and they were expensive in those days. A lot of people made buses into trailers. You’d be surprised at how many old school buses and different kinds of buses were converted into trailers…something they could live in. They could put a kitchen and stuff in there. What was really fun was that people lived so close together that you knew everybody. Everybody was in the same boat. But you got acquainted with so many people. I can remember to this day a couple by the name of Helen and Clyde Dresser that came in here shortly after we did and lived really close to us. They had a little girl. I can remember the Phillips that lived next door to us that were from Arkansas. Everybody came from somewhere. Their cooking techniques were different. We loved to cook and have commune dinners with the Phillips because being from Arkansas her food was good. It was fattening but it was good. We were learning about different types of food that different people had. There weren’t outdoor bar-be-ques in those days that I can remember. I was trying to remember what we heated our trailer with and then in this interview that my brother had stated that it was kerosene. I can remember that underneath the cook stove was a door that opened. We used a pump. So I’m thinking it must have been a kerosene of some kind. But I can’t remember any kerosene fumes or anything like that. I really don’t remember a heater. We didn’t have electric heaters that I know of. All I can think of is that mom just turned on the burner of the stove or left the oven door cracked open.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Was there propane in the ‘40s? There is a propane tank on that trailer.
NANCY: In the late ‘40s I know there was. But I don’t know about the early ‘42s ‘43s. I can’t remember when those trailers started getting propane. You guys had propane didn’t you in ‘47 ‘48?
BOB: I don’t remember. We must have had.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: The furnace in the trailer is named DuoTherm so it sounds like it runs on 2 possible fuels. So I was wondering about maybe oil and gas.
NANCY: I remember there was but I don’t remember what year that was.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: When I was a kid my dad worked on road construction and we lived in a trailer. We had a kind of a crew that went with us so the people were familiar. We did a lot of things together as families. We cooked together. We played cards a lot. Did that go on too there?
BOB: You talked to your neighbor. You jolly well better. You didn’t have anybody else to talk to.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: What if you didn’t like them? Did that happen?
NANCY: I suppose so. But you had a whole lot of them around you that you could find ones that you did.
MARYLEE: We lived next door to a family. Their trailer was a lot longer than ours. They had the grandma and grandpa and at least 2 couples with 3 or 4 children and they were hollering “Shut up!” to those kids constantly. We never said shut up to our children after that. We were not friendly to that couple they were too busy with their family. But I didn’t want to be anyway.
ANITA: I don’t remember any neighbors. I was just working and being myself.
NANCY: I think it’s interesting about what a small parcel of land that you had. Because you talk about inside or outside we didn’t have lawns. If you walked outside of your trailer we had like what’s in front of this trailer out here. You had a wooden walkway. It was like a deck. So for water or rain whatever you could hose it down. We had such a small piece of land it was interesting to see what people would do with their little piece of land. The fences and arches and they would whip into Pasco somewhere and buy some roses and plant some rose bushes. Some of them were just like doll houses. They were just adorable. Some of those women were so neat you could eat off their floors. They were scrubbing them all the time. They were real cute and others were not quite so cute. (Laughter)
TERRY: What about water? Were there water lines hooked up to the trailers? So it wasn’t like having to go sluck buckets of water from some where?
NANCY: The best I can remember was garden hose hooked up to a water facet. It came up to the side of the trailer. You didn’t pipe it. We used a garden hose.
BOB: We were up town. We had copper pipe. We also had a grey water drain from the kitchen sink.
NANCY: That’s what they learned from the first one to the second one.
MARYLEE: Our trailer had a round front with benches and storage under the benches.
ANITA: You had washcloth and towel if you had a bathrobe you were doing good.
TERRY: So I don’t imagine you could do wash every single day. So you wouldn’t have anywhere near the closets full of clothes that we have today.
So thank you so much for coming. I hope you get a chance to hang out for a little while and be sure to see the museum also. Thank you.
Duration
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00:58:25
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317kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Trailer Talk (Inside)
Description
An account of the resource
A group oral history detailing experiences of living in trailer camps in Hanford and the Tri-Cities area during WWII and the late 1940s.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
5/2/2002
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG1D-4A / T.2010.052.023
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F522e8d97103670d33c1739018c8ccb7c.mp4
0a58e62640bfdd9c9d7d7bb7d90e1eb1
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Terri Andre
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:58:05
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
317kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Termination Winds
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
An account of the resource
A group oral history recounting of early days working and living at the Hanford Engineer Works
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
The following guidelines are now in effect:
Fully in-person classes planned for fall
In anticipation of the state confirming a change in social distancing requirements, WSU Tri-Cities will move forward with adjusting room assignments to encompass a fully in-person learning experience. Scheduling will be adjusted for regular classroom capacities and laboratories will move back to their normal capacities.
Virtual access to instruction will also be provided to students who are unable to attend classes on-campus for specific reasons. For more information on requesting a virtual accommodation, contact Access Services.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG1D-4A / T.2010.052.030
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F69ff882651010c211ba2bc9f555daeeb.3gp
db20ad27219ef3663161137e31688631
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Shilo Inn, Richland, WA
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TITLE: John Ball School 1988 Reunion
INTERVIEW DATE:
INTERVIEW LOCATION: Shilo Inn Richland, WA
INTERVIEWER:
INTERVIEWED:
TRANSCRIBER: Robert Clayton
LANE BRAY: Gwen has been involved with Lee and all the others in getting this organized. So I’ve been hearing all these wonderful things about all of you and what you’ve been doing and listening to conversations that you had on the phone with her. And we have argued back and forth and it’s fun because I see some of the things that have happened differently than she does so we have argued back and forth and if you know Gwen you know that she always likes to be right. For an example we went down to Portland one time. After going past Portland we were going toward a town called T-I-G-A-R-D and I thought it was Tigard and she thought it was Teagard and we argued and argued about how you pronounce it. Gwen of course knew she was right and I thought I was right. When we got to the town it was about noon time so we went into the town to have lunch. So we went into a restaurant and before we ordered a girl came up and said, “ Do you want to order?” and we said…wait a minute we are having a terrible argument about this now what is the name? Would you say it clearly? She said, “Look at my lips…it is Burger King.” Gwen always wins anyhow.
This morning we had a marvelous time Sharon Johnson and her brother Douglas Johnson and Diane Johnson we all went out to North Richland. We looked around and we walked up and down the roads. It was fun to hear Sharon Johnson say I used to go over to the bath house and I looked over at the corner and if I saw ladies legs down below the floor I would yell at them and just run. She said she always felt the bath houses were much bigger than they are now.
Tonight on behalf of the Mayor of Richland I’d like to read a proclamation in honor of you. We’re honoring you: the students, the faculty, and the staff. We’re also honoring the mothers and fathers who made a tremendous contribution to this community during that period of time when things were booming. There was a large construction project. And you need to honor your mothers and fathers because they did an outstanding job when they were here with you. The proclamation that I offer tonight on behalf of the City of Richland says…John Ball Grade School Reunion Week August 1988. Where as John Ball Grade School played an important role in the education of children of early Hanford construction and operations workers in the years 1948 to 1955. And where as the children, teachers, and parents have scattered around the United States since those important days. And where as many have returned for a week of celebration and a renewal of good friends, wonderful teachers, and to recall those exciting times. Therefore I John N. Pointer by virtue of the authority vested in me as Mayor of the City of Richland representing members of the Richland City Council and the citizens of Richland, Washington do hereby proclaim John Ball Grade School Reunion Week in Richland and welcome and honor the former students, teachers, and parents who were a vital part of the John Ball Grade School and who have gathered here this week not only from Washington State and Oregon but from Texas, Arizona, Michigan, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Alaska, and many other parts of the nation. We wish you great success for your reunion knowing that many great memories of years past will bring smiles and laughter and that you will renew many old and dear friendships. Signed John N. Pointer Mayor of Richland. Thank you.
LEE JOHNSON: Thank you Lane. For the invocation I would like to introduce one of our former principals Mr. Win Fountain
WIN FOUNTAIN: We thank you Heavenly Father for this wonderful manifestation of your love. And this rich bounty which we are about to partake. How grateful we are for the generous competent committee that toiled so long to make this reunion possible. For these wonderful people, former students, parents, teachers, staff, and friends of John Ball. And for those marvelous years that brought all of us together. Dear God we ask that you grant each of these assembled and each of our John Ball Family that is unable to join us tonight many more years of hearty health and happiness. In your name we ask Amen.
LEE JOHNSON: Thank you very much Mr. Fountain. Now we’re going to do the Pledge of Allegiance. You are going to have to stand up. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Now it’s eat time.
(BREAK-APROX. 45 MINUTES)
GUESTS ARE SERVED BUFFET DINNER
LEE JOHNSON: Ok we are going to continue on and get started now. One thing I was asked several times by quite a few people was to have everybody stand up by graduation years so everybody could see who the other person was in their group. Let’s give it a try. We’ll start off with the year 1952. Anybody here that graduated from high school in 1952? How about ’53? You have to look around the room to see who your classmates are here if you haven’t recognized everybody. 1954? 1955? That was a pretty good year wasn’t it? 1956? 1957? 1958? 1959? 1960? I think that was the last year that anybody could have attended John Ball. It’s not? Oh ok. 1961? 1962? Ok now that’s got to be the end of it now guys. I want some honesty. I’m going to ask you all a question. How many of you went on a diet to come here tonight? Let me see your hands. There isn’t an honest one of them in the pack is there? I heard two ladies out there in the hallway talking about dieting. Where’s your hands? I heard one lady say to the other…she went on a diet-she lost 6 pounds. The other lady said she was on a rotating diet. The other lady says…well that sounds interesting. What’s a rotating diet? She says…every time you turn around you eat something. (Laughter) What did we do? Oh you went to school in kindergarten. What year did you graduate? ’65 let’s have ’65 stand up then. I don’t know why you were so anxious to have him stand up. He’s the youngest one of the bunch. There’s somebody from ’63. ’64? Have I missed anything? Is there a ’66? Is there a ’67? Ah hah. We are going to have a couple of announcements from Gwen Bray.
GWEN: I’d like to remind you tomorrow about the picnic. You can start coming down probably about 11:00. Dinner will be served at 1:00. We would like the Richland people to bring some lawn chairs and blankets because there are not enough tables at the park. The place at the park that we’ll meet is the large gazebo. The closest here to the Shilo Inn. There’s parking and we hope we’ll have the gazebo. We’ll have coffee there or lemonade. We also need about 5 REAL men to help us move those tables. The city doesn’t do it for us. Ok Charlie and Derwood can do it for us. If we should have real bad weather we do have plan B. We would meet at the Harry Kramer Center. It’s one of the buildings right on George Washington Way for those of you not familiar with Richland anymore. It’s across the street from the Red Robin. And we would have dinner there at 1:00 so we would have it covered. But we’re all hardy so we know we won’t have to go there. We would go there only in 30mph wind or pouring rain. Right?
We also would like to draw your attention to…we have a Quonset hut that has been built for us back here by Mr. Dean Kirby. Margaret was a teacher at John Ball and Dean has built this for us. And you notice he says “swamp cooler”. Remember we didn’t call them air conditioners. But drop the names in the swamp cooler. There are some lists back there for lost students. Those are names that have been turned in to us or any name that you may have that has not shown up on our found list addresses for them or any other students so that we can continue with our computer runs and adding names because in the future we will probably have a reunion and it will be North Richland As well as John Ball students. Thank you.
LEE JOHNSON: Thank you Gwen. I have a couple of quickies here too to add to that. Tomorrow on Sunday. The Sunday Tri-City Herald. There will be a full page feature on the John Ball Reunion so it might make a good souvenir for you particularly those of you who are from out of town. I believe it’s supposed to be the Desert Living section. There are evaluation forms on every table. We hope that you would take the time to fill them out. Put whatever your thoughts are on there it doesn’t make any difference how you feel. Put it down. But I should warn you that those that are really negative are on the committee next year next time rather. For those of you that haven’t already figured it out the yellow dot on your badges is student, the red is faculty, and the blue is all the other people. And doing our dance music tonight will be Dan Stone from OK 95. He will take some requests too when the time comes. Ok we’re going to have some awards and prizes. I’m going to introduce Sandy Welch and her husband Bob. They are going to have a few drawings and a few give aways here.
SANDY: If you feel the room shake it’s just me. I am scared to death. My husband said just talk like I talk on the telephone and it won’t bother me. We got some prizes that we would like to give out to a few of you people. The first one-Mary Anderson would you please come up. We will get her when she gets back. Mrs. Creighton would you come up. Mrs. Creighton was our PTA President. She went on to be the state president. So we have a thank you gift for her. But I have a question I wanted to ask her. Is there anything that you can tell us that was real special about John Ball?
MRS. CREIGHTON: Oh yes. The best kids, and the best parents, and the best school teachers. The best custodians, the best cooks, the best office workers. (Laughter)
SANDY: Now you know why she went on to state. Is Sharon Johnson Hesiel here? Come on up. I understand that Sharon was our first student enrolled at John Ball. Sharon in your response in our book it says that you remembered sand, tumbleweeds, cold knees, and spiders. I just have to ask her do you still have cold knees?
SHARON: Yes cold feet too. Thank you that’s very special.
SANDY: Now I hope everybody remembers where you live. I’d like for all of you to stand up. You probably need a good stretch right now anyway. Come on stand up everybody. Everybody stand up. Now anybody that lives within 5 miles please sit down. Well that took care of Richland. How about anyone within 50 miles. Ok how about anyone within 1,000 miles sit down. Ok how many do we have standing? Ok I’m going to go a little bit further here. How about 2,000 miles? Ok this is super. Ok how about you guys coming up here. These guys came from Enterprise, Alabama. Russ and Sandy Roddy. Jim Nyeland from Herndon, Virginia. Mrs. Dorothy Wimpy from Atlanta, Georgia. Judy Colt from Jacksonville, Florida. Donovan Mills from Enfield, Connecticut. David Mayberry from Rome, Georgia. And his mother. Jim and Sandy Spears from Hasting, Michigan. Lynn and Merilyn Bordelon from New Orleans, Louisiana. This is really super that these guys came this far. Ok now I have one more thing to do. We are going to give away the door. Mrs. Anderson is back. Mrs. Anderson would you come up? Mary Anderson was a substitute teacher and just about every one of us had her for a teacher. So we’d like to thank her. I wanted to ask her a question too. Do you think the kids have changed very much from when you taught them?
MARY: Well somewhat.
SANDY: She taught all 7 years there. Isn’t that great? Ok now we can have our drawing. I’m going to ask my husband if he will pick out the numbers for me. The number is 806036. Come on up. Bobbe DeVries Burnside. The next number is 806163. Come on up. Susan Rotan. 806066. There she comes. That’s Betty Hoff. 806167. Here we go we got a man this time. That was Harold Kenitzer. 806042. Anybody got it? That may have been ours I don’t know. 806178. Yeah! We got Roger Williams that time. 806053. There she comes. Carolynn Sahlberg. 806203 806025. That was Carol Payne. Here we come. That’s Mr. Creighton Louise’s husband. 806014 806207. There’s one oh good. This is Sue Kingry. This is Mr. Bleiler. Ok this is the last one. 806010. Oh it’s over here. All the glasses have got John Ball School 1948-1955 on them. That’s Lora Burn. That’s all I’ve got to do tonight so thanks a lot.
LEE JOHNSON: In the what did we remember section of our response sheets teachers were remembered over and over. I think this would be a good time to take a look at what the students had to say. I just jotted down a few of the quotes. “She was a lady who truly made a difference in my life.” “I remember the teachers first and the school second.” And this one here is really my favorite. I think you’re going to like it too. “I like my teachers very much but I’ll never forget those bath houses.” “She was a real inspiration to me she gave me a real feeling of self worth.” “Teachers that really care.” “The best school I ever went to.” These are some great things said about some great people. Some unique people who were willing to come to the unknown. The unknown of a boom town. They came from all over. They came to build a new community from the ground up. They came to teach diverse student body ever assembled anyplace. They met the many many challenges. They overcame the many many hardships. These teachers reached into our lives and they pulled the best out of each of us. Let’s face it this must have been a top notch faculty because just look how we turned out. I speak for every John Ball student here when I say the John Ball teachers made the difference. Would all the John Ball faculty please stand up? (Applause) That’s from all the John Ball student body to all the John Ball faculty. We say thank you for that part of your life that you gave to us. (Applause) Now I’d like to take a little time out. We had 4 principles there. The first was Ray Lamb. He opened the doors in 1948. He had to do many things a principle doesn’t do. This school had nothing in the beginning. It had no staff. It had no faculty. It had no books. It had no furniture. There wasn’t even enough room for the classrooms. But there were plenty of kids. So many kids in fact the size of the school more than doubled. Mr. Lamb was principle until 1949. At which time he moved to Spaulding and was principle there until his retirement. We would like to mark Mr. Lamb’s service with a plaque. Accepting for Mr. Lamb will be his wife Kay Lamb. Kay Lamb would you come up here? (Applause)
KAY: Thank you very much he would have been proud of your group.
LEE JOHNSON: In 1949 the baton of leadership was passed from Mr. Lamb to Mr. James LeClair. Mr. LeClair carried on until 1951. He then went into Richland to become principle at Sacajawea and later Marcus Whitman. We would like to mark Mr. LeClair’s service to John Ball with this plaque. And accepting for him will be Mrs. Peg LeClair. (Applause)
MRS. LECLAIR: Thank you very much. Jim always maintained that perhaps his most exciting school administration years were here at John Ball. As his wife I well remember those square dances. They were something on Friday night. (Applause)
LEE JOHNSON: In 1951 Mr. Winfield Fountain donned the mantle of the office of principle and was principle until 1953. Then he took the position of Dean of Seattle University and later became the director of Graduate Studies. Mr. Win Fountain would you please come to the dais.
WIN FOUNTAIN: You know folks John Ball has a very important place in our lives. And I ask just to take a moment here to share a few of the memories which I hope that you will have had with me. I thank you very much Lee and committee for this very nice plaque. But of course this is just not for the principle. It’s for all of the staff all of the fine teachers with whom we worked. I was just a small part. It didn’t take me very long to find that out. My first September at John Ball Pat Cochran who was a first grade teacher for some of you invited me to come down to the room. She introduced me as a person who has a responsible job here. His job is to keep this school running smoothly. And then there was awesome silence and big eyes for just a few seconds. Pretty soon a hand shot up and she said yes John say Miss Cochran I thought that Art Clark and Ann Richards ran this school. And those of you who remember those two they were our custodian and our secretary. And I tell you out of the mouths of babes a lot of truth comes. Actually I’ve always been very very proud of John Ball. It was my great privilege to spend 40 years at almost every level and type of American education. And yet it was right here right here in Richland and North Richland that I found the finest teachers, the most competent teachers, the most cooperative staff, and certainly the most exuberant and interesting students that I ever had in my life and for that I will always have a fond place in my heart. You may have forgot but at John Ball we were considered by Central Washington State University as one of the 6 outstanding elementary schools in central Washington. And that was in spite of all the rocks and the dust and the air raid ditch and the Quonset huts but my there was an unquenchable spirit. And Central Washington recognized that. And I hope that you will long remember that you came from that kind of a school. And oh yes the P.T.A. The John Ball P.T.A. wrote the book. How well I remember the Halloween Carnival night and I was chosen by the P.T.A. to come, as all things, as the Queen of Sheba. (Laughter) So there I was highly and improperly cosmeticized and draped with my wife Louise’s finest satin drape. The next Monday a great big burly pipe fitter wanted to talk to me personally in the office. And then he whispered to me and he said…You know there’s a concern that we have a lot of the fellow workers and I have a concern. We were just wondering you know if maybe there was a little Trans-what ever you call involved here? Well thank heavens my brain was in gear because I said…You do know don’t you that transvestites only wear pink bedspreads? (Laughter) And I reminded him that mine was a manly golden brown. (Laughter) We both expressed real relief. I hope some of you remember the Can Can Girls we had. That was a program whose fame went far and wide. And I’ll tell you there were a bunch of young ladies who do just most anything with a crowd. Bring in a great deal of money. They were entertaioners clear down to that brilliant garter that they wore. Their fame had grown so well that by the next week the Superintendant called me in one day and with a little sparkle in his eye that he always had he said tell me Win where did the P.T.A. get such a group of beautis and titillating entertainers? And I had to reassure him that no one was brought in. That those were all North Richland moms. He fell silent with amazement and was happy. But what I want to say Lee is move over Will Rogers. Those indeed were the good old days. ( Applause)
LEE JOHNSON: In 1953 Mr. Eric Soderberg picked up the reins of leadership and carried John Ball School forward to its final year in 1955. He had the sad task of closing forever the school that had served North Richland so faithfully over a 7 year period. Mr. Soderberg moved on to be principle of Moses Lake High School where he still resides. Mr. Soderberg will you please come to the dais? We would like to mark your service to John Ball with this plaque.
MR. SODERBERG: Thank you very much. After the last person what else could I say? I think he said it all. I have a few things that I would like to comment on. First of all I’m really amazed and surprised and delighted at the number of people that turned out. Isn’t it wonderful that people will come clean across the United States? John Ball must have been important to them. I remember 35 years ago I came to Richland this being the month of August. I’d been on the coast. I came over here. It was just as hot. I had such a wonderful faculty. The people were such dedicated teachers. When I first was assigned there were 2 schools available. Jefferson and John Ball and I was assigned John Ball. And when I heard that I had gotten that school. And I says now what is this? And so then they told me it was a construction camp. And the people out there were in construction and from various parts of the United States. I thought to myself oh my gosh. What is going to happen? What luck I would have to draw that school. And I thought I’m really going to have a battle. But you know I have still to remember of students who have come to the office. The students good. The parents were outstanding and took care of their children. And certainly the teachers knew how to handle it. I felt so relieved to have such a good faculty. And I hated to leave Richland. But sometimes those things happen and we have to go. So I want to say thank you to the chairman of our group here for this wonderful reunion we’ve had. It’s still a pleasure for me to come down and meet former faculty members former students that are here and I’ve known for quite some time. And I want to say thank you again very much. (Applause)
LEE JOHNSON: Mr. Soderberg said something that kind of sparked an old memory. I’m a little hesitant to mention it. I had an occasion to be in the principle’s office once. I don’t really remember why. I think it was because the principle wanted to tell me what a good student I was. But anyway the principle was just coming over to talk to me when suddenly the door flew open and in rushed a woman with a whole mess of kids. So his attention was drawn away from me which I was grateful for. He says can I help you? And the lady says…Yes I want to enroll my children in the school here. And the principle says well how old are your children? We’ll have to figure out what grades they go in. She says these 2 are 6 and these 2 are 8 and the two big ones here are 10. And the principle says my goodness do you get 2 every time? And she said no sometimes we don’t get any. (Laughter) We’re really running late so we’re going to have to cut a lot of things. But one thing you’re going to have to see. There’s just no way out of it. We’re going to have a group of the faculty doing something for us. They are called the John Ball Players. They are going to do a skit for us called The Way We Were.
E.B. MC CURDY: I was going to have my friend bring me up here witn my gym shorts on. And I was going to be blowing my whistle to loud hurahs and you would have recognized that I was the first P. E. teacher because most of yoou have never seen me with most of my clothes on. So I wanted to come and really show you that I could do that. There were 2 reasons why. I put on the shorts. I could still get in them. They had no buttons on them that I could see but when I looked in the mirror I found out that I shouldn’t wear them. And then also not only that I found out that if I had used the breath to blow that whistle I wouldn’t be able to say a word. So we are going to go from there. One of the things I’m going to do here at the beginning is to clear up some things for those people who were not at John Ball who didn’t have anyone at John Ball. You were just lucky enough to marry one of those neat people and get to come to the reunion. And as the reunion committees started to talk we discovered that there would be a lot of these people and they wouldn’t know a thing about what was going on. We decided that I might be the vehicle to tell them how this all started. And the funniest thing thet ever happened a few minutes ago when this thing started and a lovely gal came in who was in that mode she didn.t know from nothing about this place. She had just married a neat guy. And I know he was neat because I know who he was. She was in the batthroom with us. And so she had a steak and stayed in there while we practiced. She said she could hardly wait to hear it. So here it goes Linda and it’s all for you. It’s kind of hard for me to speak with my back because I like everyone to hear me. So I’m going to try and throw it both ways (the bull that is). It began in 1943 in April when Dupont the prime contractor bought 600 square miles. Oh I’m a realtor wouldn’t I have loved to have made that sale. This was 5 years before John Ball. Dupont built a constuction camp and hired 50,000 people. They built a town for 16,000 people we called that Richland. Dupont worked with the construction forces to develop the Plutonium leading to the end of WWII. This is history but I would to discuss briefly the persons who left their loved ones at home and answered to the call from the United States Government to do something they knew not what. To come across to a primitive site, to be housed in barracks, 40,000 of them and 8,000 of them in trailor homes with their families. They were fed their meals in 8 Mess Halls each with a searing capacity of 2,700 persons. I’m glad I didn’t do the dishes 3 times a day with 2,700 persons. 272,000 pounds of processed meat was eaten weekly… 15 tons of potatoes daily per mess hall 900 full pies each meal…100 pounds of coffee for one day at one mess hall. ..It woulded take 250 good cows to supply the milk for one breakfast for one mess hall. These people ate a lot but they also worked a hard day. Seven days a week until an accident that happened from stress and distress. So they would get one day off every two weeks so that they could be with their families. One of the things that I loved to see when I was there because we came before Jojn Ball and then came back at that time. One thing that thrilled me so much that my red, white, and blue blood just sparkled when I saw the people give Days Pay- a bomber- that was used by the Allies in the wae against the Nazis and against the others. I mean because that thing was paid for by one days pay by everyone who was on the plant. That was wonderful. That’s the kind of people you come from folks.the important fact to me is the tremendous faith in a country engrossed in a killing war. Faith to work toward a goal without stopping. Your youth, the wiives, the friends, the children have inherited the same fortitude. I didn’t return 2,000 mile to that area if you people were not of that ilk. That is the history of it. Now we are ready to discuss how we were at John Ball School. Now don’t take notes we are going to give you a copy of it. And if you don’t like it you don’t have to take it but don’t throw the paper out on the floor. With me now they call us the John Ball Players we are the Unique Antiques. Now here on my far right is Kay Lamb who slept with the first principle of the school.
KAY LAMB: It was a memorable experience.
E.B. MC CURDY: And next to Kay is Margaret Kirby who was one of the first 1st grade teachers. And next to her is Lenore Bern who you’ve heard a lot about. They are going to tell you about how we were at John Ball.
LENORE BERN: Think about how we were at John Ball. We were before color television, VCR’s, Polio, Polio shots, polyester, electronic music, and computers. Most of us lived on a 40’ lot in a mobile home then called a trailor house without a bathroom or a bedroom. The rent payment for the trailor space including utilities was less than $10.00 a week. Proudly we attended a school with turtle shell classrooms in Quonset huts. There was no cafeteria and no gym. And at first all were separated only by blowing sand. We started school at John Ball with approximately 15 pupils in February 1948. By the end of the school year there were more than 900 kids going to school. We rarely had any accidents and we just ignored the allergies to the wind and the sand. Our P.T.A. was one of the most active and supportive in the state. Our 3rd P.T.A. president, Louise Creighton became famous by being elected to represent all of the Tri-city P.T.A.s at the state level.
E.B. MC CURDY: Let’s hear it for Louise!
LENORE BERN: Back in 1948, to us, time sharing meant togetherness not condominiums. A chip meant a small pieece of wood. Hardware meant hardware and software wasn’t even a word. Fast food was what we ate during Lent. In the ’40s and ’50s we rejected almost everything stamped Made in Japan. And the term Making Out referred to how we did on our examinations.
MARGARET KIRBY: Disco dancing was not popular as there were no discos. We had not seen rice makers and refrigerators or no dishwashers and heat pumps. And didn’t give a dooly about a race to the moon or Reagan’s Star Wars. But we came here on faith and pride in the good old United States. Our fathers didn’t wear long hair and earrings. Our mothers didn’t wear tuxedos and blue jeans. The women teachers would even think of wearing slacks even in the coldest weather. We had to be satisfied with the cloths that our parents wanted us to wear. We got married first and lived together later. In our day cigarette smoking was considered fashionable. Grass was mowed and coke was something you drank. Pot was something you cooked in or carried to the wash house first thing in the morning. And the only crack we worried about was when you walked on the sidewalk and said step on a crack and break your mother’s back.
KAY LAMB: Being gay was going to the neighborhood party and popping popcorn. For a nickel you could make a phone call, buy a soft drink, mail a letter, or get a double-decker ice cream cone. We were not before the difference between the sexes was discovered. We didn’t change sexes just made do with what we had. And when we knew we going to have a baby we just had to buy both blue and pink until it had arrived. Oh we were strange type folks. We loved school, adored our principle, and never once doubted that John Ball School wasn’t the finest in the land.and we wouldn’t change the way we were at John Ball even a little bit.
E.B. MC CURDY: We found out rather early in the game that we had a fight song and it’s was so exciting. And the words are there on your table if you’ll find it and kind of bunch up there because are going to be in the program. Get your words and get up and I am going to start playing it and the people are going to lead you.
Everyone sings the “John Ball” fight song.
LEE JOHNSON: Ok we’re going to do one more thing and then we are going to skip everything else and get on with the dancing. What I would like to do now is recognize the committee and if you could just hold your applause until the end. I’ll have the committee stand. Mrs Magaret Kirby was an adviser. She located people for us. She was on the task group, ticketing, badging and entertainment. Mrs. Vera Edwards wasn’t really oon the entertainment committee. She produced and directed “The Way We Were” authored two poems which you are not going to hear now. She put together the Time Capsule which is on one of the tables over here. And by the way we would you to put something in it. Mrs. Kay Lamb was an advisor. She located a lot of people. She provided memorabilia. She was on the entertainment committee. Mrs. Lenore Bern was an advisor, provided John Ball school pictures. She was on the entertainment committee. Mrs. Gwen Bray did the picnic took care of all those details. She was instrumental in getting all of the publicity. The TV commercial, newspaper. We’re going to have the full page in the Tri-City Herald tomorrow. She located numerous people. She even came up with that fight song. Now how many people knew we had a fight song? I would have never have known it. And she did a mutitude of other things. Laura Dean Kirby Armstrong. She was involved in ticketing. She made appointment packets. She found a bunch of people. She was the song leader with Mrs. Knitzer. Sandy Ferency Welchdid the door prizes, took care of the drawing. And she tore this town apart going through school records. And I might tell you this right now. There are no records on anybody in this room. They are all gone. So you can tell them that you finished grade school and nobody can tell them otherwise. Jane Mattoon Carlson. She located a lot of the people. And she worked on one really big project. And that is the Memory Book. She did that single handed. Delores Hoover Stoner. She got a jillion pictures. I’m not sure how many a jillion is but I’m sure she got at least that many. She picked up history all over the place. Anything she couldn’t find she made up. No I’m just kidding. She did all the pictures and memorabilia that you see posted aroung the room here. “Bubs” Colin Blieler. He made arraingements for the photographer to be here tonight. He located a lot of people. He knows everybody in the Tri-Cities. The last person. I want to take and give special attention to this one here. This is Larry Jojnson. My wife worked on this reunion every day of the year. She kept me going on it when I was ready to chuck it. The strange thing about all of this is my wif didn’t go to school out there. But I thank you honey for all the help. Will the whole committee please rise.
KAY LAMB: to Lee and Irene in appreciation for all your time in getting the ball started and keeping it going and making a successful reunion of John Ball we’d like to give you these sweaters from John Ball School. (Applause).
LEE JOHNSON: Thank you very much for that. I really appreciate that. We’re going to cut everything else out of the program. We will take a little break and then we will have our dancing.
DANCING FOR THE REST OF THE NIGHT
Duration
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02:04:06
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126kbps
Dublin Core
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Title
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John Ball School 1988 Reunion
Subject
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Richland (Wash.)
Description
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A 1988 reunion of the John Ball Grade School held at the Shilo Inn in Richland, WA. John Ball School was a temporary school which served the North Richland construction camp and was constructed of WWII surplus Quonset huts joined together.
Creator
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CREHST Museum
Publisher
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Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
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August, 1988
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Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project
Language
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English
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RG1D-4A
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fab3bcb71128a08d28e0c5c0c0fcec2bf.3gp
fb23424dbc3730c361b0ef4b3072db62
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
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Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
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Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
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CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
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1999-2013
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All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
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English.
Identifier
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RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
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Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
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1943-1990
Provenance
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Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
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Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Terri Andre
Interviewee
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Roger Rohrbacher, Mary Rohrbacher, Ray Issacson
Location
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CREHST Museum
Transcription
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<p> </p>
<p>CREHST Oral History Project</p>
<p>Brown Bag Luncheon Interview</p>
<p>Title: “ The Fear Factor “</p>
<p>Date of interview: October 12, 2004</p>
<p>Location of interview: CREHSTMuseum</p>
<p>Moderator: Terri Andre</p>
<p>Interviewed: Roger Rohrbacher, Mary Rohrbacher, and Ray Isaacson</p>
<p>Transcriber: Robert Clayton</p>
<p> </p>
<p>These individuals described their experiences during the construction and subsequent operation of HEW facilities during WWII and the early years of the cold war.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>TERRI: First off why don’t I have you guys introduce yourselves and tell when you came to Hanford and sort of what you did in the beginning.</p>
<p>RAY: Ray Isaacson as I used to be known around here. Then I retrogressed to my childhood and became Bud Isaacson. That was my name that all my family knows me by. I had a cousin come here to Richland one day to go to some kind of a meeting. He looked down through the telephone directory and he got back to RochesterWashington and he saw my mother and he says, “I thought Bud lives in Richland.” “Well he does.” “Well I couldn’t find his name in the telephone directory.” “Well did you look under Raymond?” “No I didn’t know that was his name.” So anyway I came to Richland in 1948 during the construction period. I worked in construction on the ranch houses, and on the SpauldingSchool, and Lewis and Clark, and Marcus Whitman. Then I went back to school at University of Washington and the next year I found my way to Grand Coulee Dam and got into construction there and mixed all the cement plants for the east powerhouse. Went back to school, got my degree, came back here and went to work in the 234-5 building where I worked most of my time. Eventually I got elected to be a state representative and then county commissioner. So here I are.</p>
<p>ROGER: I ‘m Roger Rohrbacher. I came to Hanford in the spring of 1944. I had come from the University of Chicago and even go back one step further. I worked for Dupont in an acid plant in Illinois. My buddies were leaving and turned out they ended up at Hanford. I got in contact with them and said, “What are you guys doing?” “We don’t know.” Another guy said, “Man it’s sure isolated out here.” I thought I’d head out here too to see the great northwest. So I was told to report to Dr. so and so at the University of Chicago only 40 miles away. And after 6-8 months there I came out to Hanford. Let me tell you a little side story about what it was like here. Bill McQue was one of the early guys out here. He was in “B” when it started up. His wife came out a little later. Came out on the train. And she was talking to the person next to her and the other person said, "Where are you headed?" She said, “Pasco.” This other lady said, “Honey that’s the end of the world.” (Laughter). Anyway I came here just after the dormitories were built so I didn’t have to live in the barracks.</p>
<p>RAY: Did you know George Thatcher?</p>
<p>ROGER: Yeah that sounds a little familiar.</p>
<p>RAY: He worked under the stands at the University of Chicago.</p>
<p>ROGER: Quite a few who worked there came out here.</p>
<p>MARY: I am Bluey Rohrbacher. Roger came back and we got married in the fall of ’44. And when we came out we got off at beautiful downtown Pasco at 2:00 o’clock in the morning and the fella that was supposed to pick us up was not there. We didn’t know how we were going to get to Richland. Finally Roger saw somebody he knew and we got a ride into town. I went to work at the original Army hospital or Army type hospital and I was a medical technologist. I had a real surprise. It was the most well stocked lab I had ever seen. Most labs are tight with money. They don’t buy binocular scopes and all sorts of good things but this one did. We had 12 med techs when I started and we took turns going out to the areas.</p>
<p>TERRI: Where was that hospital. Was it where Kadlec is now?</p>
<p>MARY: Well it’s just east of there sort of. We called it KadlecHospital then and it looked just like an Army hospital you know a central hall with wings.</p>
<p>TERRI: So it was pretty much patterned after an ArmyHospital?</p>
<p>MARY: Oh yes pretty stark.</p>
<p>TERRI: So by the time you came the secret was out? Right? You came later.</p>
<p>RAY: Yeah.</p>
<p>TERRI: Did you have any misgivings about coming?</p>
<p>RAY: Not at all. As a matter of fact I chose to go into the nuclear area being a graduate chemical engineer with lots of physical chemistry background and inorganic background and so forth. I just thought Hanford would provide a lot of opportunities in that general area and the nuclear part of it.</p>
<p>So the bomb went off but the next phase was going to be producing electricity from nuclear power.</p>
<p>TERRI: Roger at what point was it that you knew what it was that you were working on?</p>
<p>ROGER: After it was announced in the paper. We had suspicions but that was all. One of the operators had a fuel element and he saw it was heavy. He said, “You know I used to work in a uranium mine in Vancouver, British Columbia.” He says, “This feels just like uranium.” His boss says, “Gee that sounds interesting.” and turned around and left. He didn’t want to spill the beans. Things like that would come up. I worked the instrument part of it and I was moving a neutron saver under the plant.</p>
<p>Neutron saver and I said this ain’t a chemical plant because that was the rumor. That Dupont was running this big chemical plant out here. Everything came in and nothing left and we got suspicious. Because, actually, for the start of B Reactor there wasn’t any big announcement at Hanford or anyplace. Even though I was probably in one of the 100 areas at the time nobody told me. But the official word was when the paper came out and said, “IT’S THE BOMB.” It was the Villager or something.</p>
<p>TERRI: So you were doing actual science or engineering type work but you only knew one piece of it?</p>
<p>ROGER: Well that was a strange quirk Dupont had a habit of moving people around where they needed people. Like I worked in a chemical engineering group at the University of Chicago, which was under the Manhattan Project. When I came out here this fella I interviewed for said we would like to have you in the instrument department. I play a trumpet so I’ll fit right in. (Laughter). I said I don’t know anything about instruments. He said it doesn’t matter we will train you. So then there was some few months of classroom training and hands on training and then working with another fella. Finally I was working on my own. Most of the time I worked at Hanford I worked in instrumentation.</p>
<p>And another change Dupont needed some people in the pile technology group that was before they had reactors and I worked there for a couple of years.</p>
<p>TERRI: So you were working in the medical field. Did you have any inkling that anything unusual was happening?</p>
<p>MARY: Oh no although the med techs rotated out to the areas we had no idea what was going on. The labs as I remember were in windowless rooms and we were not allowed to go out any place. We had to stay in there all day.</p>
<p>TERRI: So you were escorted out to the areas?</p>
<p>MARY: We went out on the bus and if we were lucky we got a ride in with the doctor that was out in the area.</p>
<p>TERRI: So you wouldn’t have to come in on the bus. (Laughter.)</p>
<p>Mary: Oh yes. Those busses were horrible. But we had to stay where we were going in the lab. We were not allowed to go out. We hadn’t the foggiest idea what was going on. They didn’t tell us and we didn’t ask. That was one thing you don’t ask.</p>
<p>TERRI: So that was pretty much accepted.</p>
<p>MARY: Oh yes, yes.</p>
<p>TERRI: Now when you came out was there still a great deal of secrecy about different work that was going on?</p>
<p>RAY: Oh absolutely yes. As a matter of fact it took me quite awhile to get my Q clearance. Then I got my weapons clearance and then I got my top-secret clearance. Everything was secret.</p>
<p>TERRI: What can you tell us that you did work on that is no longer classified?</p>
<p>RAY: Well I did work in the 234-5 building which was the plutonium processing building. We received the plutonium nitrate initially from T plant and later on from REDOX and PUREX. Those plants were much larger and more efficient. We received plutonium nitrate solution initially in the 231 building and they converted that to an oxide and that went over to the 234-5 building and that was converted to a metal in 234-5.</p>
<p>TERRI: My head is spinning...234-5 OK.</p>
<p>RAY: Well 234-5 was the plutonium processing and plutonium fabrication building. One of the big studies that was made was Senator Hikkenlooper said that the AEC spent way too much money building the 234-5 building. And so there were a lot of investigations going on before they started up. But once we started up I came in 1951and wound up down there for my assignment to help the processing engineers.</p>
<p>TERRI: Now in the past few days there has been a lot of B Reactor talk because of the 60<sup>th</sup> anniversary of the start up. And one of the things that kind of surprised me and I thought may have caused a little quiver of fear was when they talked about when the very first plutonium product was done how it was transported down to California. Were there things like that that may have afterwards kind of raised an eyebrow and thought you know there might have been a little safer or we would have done it differently now?</p>
<p>ROGER: Well there was one thing after the fact I heard about it. When B Reactor was loaded there was concern about how much fuel should be put in. Enrico Fermi said, “1500 tubes.” Dupont people they always had a couple of special terms. One was contingency. And this fella from Dupont, a technical consultant, was Crawford Greenewalt. He went up to General Groves and said, “What’s your contingency?” Well Groves didn’t know what he was talking about and he said, "Well, Fermi said 1500 tubes. That’s what we are going to do.” And Crawford Greenewalt said, "If this thing shouldn’t work who do you think will get the blame?" Groves was no dummy, “How many more tubes do you want?” And Greenewalt said, "500."</p>
<p>TERRI: I understand the shape changed too with the extra tubes.</p>
<p>ROGER: Yes they provided more fuel and more area for the neutrons to interact with the plutonium. As a matter of fact that was a fear an unknown. When the reactor first started up it slowly decayed and the power level went to zero. That’s when the top-secret people got involved…Enrico Fermi, John Wheeler, and Crawford Greenewalt sat in the room and tried to figure it out. One story is Fermi was waving his slide rule around and they were talking back and forth and the story that came out was they were taking a pool to see when the reactor would start on its’ own. And whoever got the closest would win a bottle of wine. Gambling on government property. (Laughter).</p>
<p>RAY: With a nuclear reactor. That had never been operated before.</p>
<p>TERRI: What’s the funniest thing that you have ever seen out at the Hanford area? Something must have broken up the days of just dust.</p>
<p>MARY: Yeah there was plenty of dust. Well one funny thing that happened to us was we were assigned to a one bedroom prefab. Oh it was lovely. No lawn and the desert was one block across the street and we had about a three-inch gap below our door. We had invited some friends of ours for Thanksgiving. I set the table ahead of time and when we lifted up the plates there was a circle of dust around them. I remember that so well. (Laughter). It was dirty.</p>
<p>TERRI: I think I would have been worried about spiders and things coming in.</p>
<p>MARY: They probably did. I don’t remember spiders but oh that was a small house. Believe me.</p>
<p>RAY: Being that this is the CRESHT museum you probably should have some of Dupus Boomer’s cartoons.</p>
<p>MARY: Oh we do down the hall.</p>
<p>RAY: That explains it.</p>
<p>TERRI: What about you guys? Something maybe that struck you as a little odd or funny.</p>
<p>ROGER: Probably more odd. One of the problems of the reactor the graphite expanded. It grew to the point where they were concerned about keeping the reactor operating. After a while they decided if they could heat up the graphite that would help the problem. But still the expansion was kind of bad and the reactor itself had a sheet metal covering on it and the corners had neoprene seals. These seals were being stretched by the expansion of the graphite. So they put an oddball looking clamp in the upper right hand corner to stop this. A visitor came in and said, “B Reactor is held together with a giant C clamp” (Laughter)</p>
<p>TERRI: At least it didn’t look a giant cloths pin. That would have been even funnier.</p>
<p>RAY: Well I think the thing that really impressed me more than anything else was when Max Roy was at Los Alamos and the Department of Energy, not DOE. but literally the Army, decided that they needed more plutonium. Of course we were limited on our capacity here with the old reactors that we had. So then the question was is there anyway that Hanford can produce more plutonium? And the answer was well if we change the specifications yeah. So this got bounced back to Los Alamos and the design engineer says, "No way." and Max Roy came back and said, "No way." and the Army said, "Yes there will be a way and we will increase the production at Hanford." And what was sacrificed was the quality of the plutonium. The longer you leave plutonium in a reactor the more some of the higher isotopes grow into the material. Some of the isotopes are varieties of plutonium. Like 239 was the target plutonium to be made but when you leave plutonium in a reactor for an extended period then Plutonium-240 grows into the other plutonium. And so when you separate you can’t separate the two except by some other more classified process.</p>
<p>(Laughter)</p>
<p>TERRI: O.K. will let that one slip by…classified processes.</p>
<p>RAY: But anyway they decided to increase production by 20 %. That changed the kind of isotope mix that we had. So now it was necessary to go back and change the comparations of the reactor. Well Max Roy got kind of in a fit and he had a little cabin in Mexico so he went down to Mexico from New Mexico to his cabin. He stayed in his cabin for about 6 weeks to show them that he wasn’t really needed. (Laughter) But he came back and picked up where he left off. Well at that time I was in the inspection of the plutonium parts as they came through the 234-5 building and how do you cope with this because they put a cap on there. So the question was how does the isotopic ratio come out from each of the reactors? Well we had B Plant still operating so lets batch it through it through B Plant. Isolate it through 234-5 building. And when we get down to the weapons portion then we will evaluate each one of those parts and see which reaction it came from or correlate back to the reaction it came from. As a consequence we were able to set up the operating level for each one of the reactors such that we got a pretty good blend of the plutonium through the 234-5 building meeting specs that Los Alamos would permit. And so every reactor then had a certain exposure level that they pushed to. Then when we went out to inspect on the weapons end of the business we will just throw it back to our melting operations along with some other materials and get the appropriate ratios back through inspections and on down to Rocky Flats. At that time we were shipping through Rocky Flats.</p>
<p>TERRI: I have to confess I got very little of all that. For non-technical types let me see if I got it. So you had to increase your output by 20%.</p>
<p>RAY: So that consequents higher levels of isotopes growing onto the plutonium which you could separate out through chemical methods.</p>
<p>TERRI: Did they have to separate them out or did they just leave them there?</p>
<p>RAY” No we just left them there. And when we were over the limits we would bring it back to our casting operations and melt it down with some other plutonium that had a lower level of the higher isotopes.</p>
<p>TERRI: I’m trying to come up with an analogy.</p>
<p>RAY: There isn’t one that I know of.</p>
<p>AUDIENCE MEMBER: They were talking production and I have a non-technical thing that I was there when it happened. In the 1950’s I was working in the 100 Areas. And well a little bit of the basics. The amount of power you can get is how much heat the water going from the front of the tube to the rear the bigger the difference you had a limit of what you could go over on the rear. But the colder it was going in the more production you could get. Well we heard technicalists tried to think of a way to lower the temperature of the Columbia River. Wow but you know they did.</p>
<p>TERRI: They lowered the temperature of the Columbia River?</p>
<p>AUDIENCE MEMBER: They got to dealing with the Corps of Engineers and they got Grand Coulee Dam to let the water out instead of over the dam from the bottom of the huge lake and it was several degrees cooler. It tasted pretty horrible because we also drank it. It had a different taste. Our drinking water was filtered of course.</p>
<p>RAY: At that time the east powerhouse hadn’t been completed and they had huge needle valves in the bottom of the dam that they would open. And when those needle valves were operating in there that air would just pulse in front of you. So if you smoked a cigarette that cloud of smoke would just sit there and pulse in front of you. When they put turbines in there they had to close off all of those needle valves. All of the water then went through the turbines instead. From the top down. So that was a kind of a limit to 1951 was the end of that cooling operation.</p>
<p>AUDIENCE MEMBER: Did you know how much of a percentage increase it made? Did you ever hear that?</p>
<p>RAY: No. As you say it was delta t across the reactor. That is indicative of the power produced by the reactor and of the fission that was taking place in the reactor.</p>
<p>AUDIENCE MEMBER: I’d like to mention another one. This was from a man who I got to know who was in Chicago working for Dupont with a chemical engineering background. He was there when the big first test was made. He was involved with the team that was doing the chemical work. This is the way his story went. When they had the reaction then they had this bit of uranium that had been gone through the process then it went to chemical processing. At one point they had gotten the plutonium that it had. And he said there it was the world’s supply of plutonium in one test tube. And somehow it fell to the floor and went down the drain. Well they recovered it. I thought it was quite a story. The world’s supply of plutonium in one test tube and somebody dropped it.</p>
<p>RAY: As a matter of fact Glenn T. Seaborg was developing the chemistry for the plutonium processing. And the plants U Plant, T Plant, and B Plant and C Plant was never built. Those plants were based on those micro-chemical tests of the first plutonium that was produced by Dr. Seaborg. And they scaled up from microchemistry to these full-scale plants. That had never been done before. I mean that’s a how shall I say it that’s a factor of probably several hundred thousand times scale up.</p>
<p>ROGER: That reminds me of a fear factor with Seaborg. In the early days he had real trouble trying to get enough plutonium to work with and then try to do something with it. He told his crew, “We really need a bunch of biologists.” And they thought old Seaborg’s cracking up under the strain. Biologists don’t work on that stuff. He said, “We’re working with stuff we can’t see and that’s what biologists do all the time.” He was joking but his crew didn’t particularly appreciate that.</p>
<p>RAY: Well it goes beyond that too because the mathematics associated with fission reactions are from biology. The original mathematics was based on biology mathematics. On the creation of cells.</p>
<p>TERRI: Almost like the splitting of cells and multiplying.</p>
<p>ROGER: That’s where the word fission came from.</p>
<p>RAY: Right.</p>
<p>TERRI: So is that why he wanted the biologists?</p>
<p>ROGER: No. That was supposed to be a joke.</p>
<p>(Laughter)</p>
<p>TERRI: Oh you got me. You are just so good at that. Really!</p>
<p>AUDIENCE MEMBER: What temperature does plutonium melt at? You say you melt it down. What temperature does it melt?</p>
<p>RAY: I don’t know.</p>
<p>TERRI: Hot! Very hot.</p>
<p>RAY: We had a certain process and procedure and I don’t know if that has been declassified or not. But we did have some problems in the metallurgical quality of the plutonium we produced. There was some information in the Tri-City Herald here not too long ago where the Russians found out that one of the phases of plutonium was metastabile. Well we knew that a long time ago. And we know how to stabilize it. They got our secrets and they learned how to do that too. But then we had another technique for insuring the stability over a longer period of time. We developed that out in 234-5 building. So we were able to meet the specifications according to what the design group at Los Alamos wanted.</p>
<p>TERRI: Now I heard a story a while ago and I don’t remember who told me it. So I’m going tell you guys this story and you can tell me if it sounds like something that may have been true or if it’s kind of like we start to get our own little brand of folklore. This story the day that B Reactor first came up and went critical that they had technicians walking around the building with Geiger counters and walking through the building and maybe sticking the Geiger counter wand around the corner to make sure it was safe to walk around the corner. To make sure nothing was going wrong.</p>
<p>ROGER: I haven’t heard that one.</p>
<p>TERRI: You haven’t heard that one. Well maybe we’re starting an urban legend. (Laughter) Let’s see what other rumors can I start. (Laughter)</p>
<p>MARY: There were lots rumors but we knew nothing really. When you worked at Hanford you only were told as much as you needed for your job and beyond that forget it. They did not tell you anything. A lot of people, outside people, had trouble with that. Not understanding why we did not understanding everything that was going on.</p>
<p>TERRI: Didn’t you just recently run into that attitude even now?</p>
<p>MARY: Yes I did. Roger was interviewed several years ago by a reporter from a paper on the west side. And after she talked to him she called me up and wanted to know what I knew about the plant. I said, “Well nothing really.” Because we weren’t told. We didn’t need to know for our job as med-techs. And she said, “Well didn’t you ask your husband?” I said, “No. He couldn’t say anything. He was not allowed to talk about it.” She said, “Didn’t you talk to your neighbors?” I said, “No.” “When you went out socially didn’t you talk?” I said, “No you don’t do that.” She just couldn’t understand that. Finally her parting shot was, “Well it wouldn’t be that way nowadays.” I said, “Yes but you’re not at war nowadays either. That’s a big difference.” The way she said it we were just a bunch of dummies here because we didn’t ask. She just didn’t know what it was like. I tried to tell her about the security and she didn’t get it.</p>
<p>TERRI: It was before Iraq.</p>
<p>ROGER: This is another one. There was no fear but it was just the opposite. I think this was the time when Glenn Seaborg came out for Battelle for some doings. 25 years of Battelle. Afterward a group got together and somebody said, “I’m so amazed so much stuff got done.” One was oh boy I forget his name he used to run the old HanfordMuseum and he finally went blind.</p>
<p>AUDIENCE MEMBER: Fosgate?</p>
<p>RAY: Yes. Elmer Fosgate said, “We were so dumb that when the boss said to do something we did it." And this other guy says, "What about approval?”…we didn’t need it …”What about QA?” …never heard of it. There was quite a bit of that. The only real restriction at least that I ran across in the 100 Area was the radiation monitoring people. A couple times I wanted to say, “Just take a reading. There’s paper on the floor. I’ll hold my breath.” The radiation monitor says, “Well Roger you don’t work for me and I can’t tell you what to do but if you go in without suiting up, as in putting on special covering, I’ll get your butt.” Except he used stronger language. They were I would say right up there with top management. You do what they say or you get in trouble.</p>
<p>TERRI: Then did that go through until later years too? They were pretty much able to.</p>
<p>RAY: They set the parameters. If there was an area that was contaminated you didn’t make the decision to go in there yourself. You had your monitor with you and escort you and keep you out of trouble.</p>
<p>TERRI: And that didn’t cause any queasy feelings?</p>
<p>RAY: No.</p>
<p>TERRI: No?</p>
<p>RAY: Why should it? You were safe. You were protected by your keeper.</p>
<p>TERRI: The radiation monitor told you…so as long as you were sure that they were reading their equipment right.</p>
<p>RAY: Well you knew what…you had air monitors and things like that. One guy that got scared the most was a guy by the name of Ardal and he was operating in the hood. In the 234-5 building there was a recuplex operation where we recovered plutonium from the scrap and recycled the solutions. He was working there in the hood in the glove box hands extended in this hood. All of a sudden this criticality alarm went off. “Ahooga Ahooga.” He dropped his hands out of the hood as fast as he could. He ran through and broke the seal on the back door. He ran around the building as fast as he could. He got to the badge house he laid his arms down on the desk and he said, "I’ve had it. I saw the blue flash. I’m dead.” (Laughter) What had happened was there was too much concentrated plutonium nitrate solution that got sucked up into what at that time was called the K-9 Vessel which was a recycling vessel that was being used to slurp up all their spills and whatnot on the floor; but they put a lot of cadmium nitrate in there to absorb the neutrons from the plutonium solutions so it couldn’t go critical. But when they cleaned up the operations someone spilled a batch of concentrated plutonium solution on the floor and they had been sucking this stuff up with this K-9 Vessel. 18 inch in diameter it was not a critically safe vessel. So when they slurped it up into the tank it went critical. And according to my calculations from the year before it followed the form that would be expected for a solution of plutonium nitrate. It had a big spike of neutrons coming off and then all of a sudden it died down. The reaction stopped. But then when the solution collapsed upon itself then it started up again. So you get a 2-peak burst that tails off. What happens is when a plutonium solution goes critical like that the radiation is so high it separates the hydrogen oxygen into gasses they form bubbles and the bubbles rise. When bubbles rise the solution expands. What they call the buckling of the configuration then is diminished with respect to the K factor the K effect. The multiplication of the neutrons stops and goes sub-critical. And then as the solution collapses on itself as the bubbles clear that solution it goes critical again. But this time it doesn’t peak out as high. And as I say when I did the calculations the year before people wouldn’t believe me. So when that happened everybody of course cleared the building. I was downtown getting a haircut it was on a Saturday. So I called out and I said, "Has anybody thought about going out to the incinerator building?" In the incinerator building we took all the scraps from 234-5 building-coveralls, hood covers, and scrap out of the hoods that was combustible put it in boxes and take it over to the incinerator building and burn all of that. Well we didn’t want to get too much plutonium together in that facility so we had a neutron monitor there all the time that people watched to make sure that the neutron background level didn’t get too high. That would indicate that there was too much plutonium collecting in the facility. So this monitor was on. Well that was probably at least 100 yards away through a couple of concrete walls about 8” thick. And sure enough they got the charts at my request. I went out and picked them up and there was that trace of the neutrons as the neutrons increased went high and then they fell back and then picked up again. So then we could watch the neutron flux like you say from 100 yards away through some concrete walls. So those instruments were that sensitive. At that time W.E. Johnson was the manager here and Paul Ranker was the manager of the 200 Areas. So I was requested to explain to them why my model worked. Nobody else would support that concept when I developed that model the year before. And sure enough that’s the way it happens. Part of my calculations were based on work that Klaus Fuchs had done down at Los Alamos before he defected to the Russians. He was working on the boiling water reactor at Los Alamos and came up with the equations for that type of system and sure enough that’s how it works.</p>
<p> AUDIENCE MEMBER: What was the timing of those sites. Do you recall?</p>
<p>RAY: Oh it was a very short period. I’ve got my charts at home. I kept a copy of my charts because I used unclassified information to develop the model.</p>
<p>ROGER: Is that what they call Rankers Reactor? We heard stories it was called that.</p>
<p>RAY: Yeah Rankers Reactor a boiling water reactor.</p>
<p>TERRI: Was that guy OK?</p>
<p>RAY: They did some checks on the sodium isotope ratio in his body. While he didn’t get a critical dose he was affected. He could never go back into a radiation zone. But he lived a normal life after that. But as an operator in a non-radioactive environment. There was another young guy in there with CD so they did a biopsy on his testicles because that was what affected. And he suffered more from that than he did from his exposure to the neutrons. (Laughter)</p>
<p>ROGER: Speaking of radiation that reminds me of a story. The first is true but I don’t know about the rest. Dupont and GE later if there was a particular job in a high radiation zone they usually used supervisors or engineers because most of the operators got their dose during the day. The story was that a fuel element, a slug, got stuck in the elevator in the rear of the reactor. And one of the 8” fuel elements would probably give you a lethal dose in about 20 or 30 seconds. Well Bill was to go out with I think it was an 8 foot pole and run out to the elevator and try to poke this fuel element loose. He was told to poke only twice. Whether you get it or not get back. The radiation monitor was standing right around the corner to see what the reading was. Bill ran out poked it. It dropped off the first time and he ran backwards so fast he knocked over the radiation monitor around the corner. (Laughter). He was one of the older guys when he came out he was 32 and they called him Pappy.</p>
<p>RAY: It was all young people.</p>
<p>MARY: Very young people with a high birth rate.</p>
<p>RAY: Our first son who is now a doctor here in town was born in the old barracks the old KadlecHospital.</p>
<p>MARY: Yes both of our children were born there.</p>
<p>TERRI: And did you come out here married or did you get married once you got here?</p>
<p>RAY: I got married the year before I graduated. So we were married and came out together.</p>
<p>TERRI: So what did she think of coming out here to this part of the EvergreenState?</p>
<p>RAY: She was born and raised in Rochester which is south of Olympia about 20 miles fir trees all around. I was born in the desert down in Arizona and I like desert country. She thought it was pretty bleak. But we stayed.</p>
<p>TERRI: So did she know what your job was? Sort of?</p>
<p>RAY: Well not really because again we couldn’t talk about it. She got herself a job in the suggestion department. So she worked out in the old HanfordHigh School that was where her office was. She got to see a lot of stuff out there.</p>
<p>TERRI: I’ll bet she got to see some interesting suggestions. Some of which you may not want to talk about. (Laughter).</p>
<p>RAY: Walt Smizer was one of her bosses. Jack Perrard and Walt Smizer. But back to the production days another thing that was interesting. I was in process control and then followed the process into the 234-5 building. Me and another guy developed the process that is still used today isolating the plutonium from the nitrate solution converting it to metal. Following that I became in charge of the final plutonium shapes that were shipped down to Los Alamos and then Rocky Flats. So I got awful close to the parts. We handled them with our hands if you can believe. They were plated with a coating on them so we could walk around in the room literally with the pieces of plutonium.</p>
<p>TERRI: With gloves or no?</p>
<p>RAY: Well you could have like surgical gloves but that was just a precaution in case there was any plutonium smeared around and hopefully you wouldn’t smear any around you wouldn’t drop any. But when they shifted to the high production effort during the height of the cold war years we were kind of faced with a dilemma in identifying or measuring what we called the neutron “emacivity” rate. And of course that would depend on how much 240 was in the 239 plutonium. Well when we got into that aspect of it. Well when plutonium fissions by itself you know it’s a natural fission it’s a natural fission product that emits neutrons all the time. But depending upon the mass of plutonium there would be what you call self- multiplication. The more plutonium together then the more the plutonium would return the neutrons within itself and it would give off more neutrons because of this multiplying effect. Well when we got into this higher level of 240 we didn’t have the mathematics to make corrections for the self-multiplication. So what we did is we had cylinders of plutonium-right circular cylinders like a hockey puck or several hockey pucks. And so what we did is we went on weekends we would run our experiments and if you can imagine Robert Lewis Stevenson- Bob Stevenson was one of the new criticality analysts and I became one and then Dr. Dwayne Clayton ran the Critical Mass Laboratories. So the three of us and we had an instrument tech with replicate instruments and he called this operation Rubber Knee. So we would take these right circular cylinders of plutonium and then we would stack them up and then we would get a neutron count. And then we’d stack another one on and we’d get a neutron count. Well if you plot the reciprocal of the neutron count as the neutron increases then if you take the inverse of that the fraction becomes much smaller all the time. So you plot the reciprocal of the neutron count you know 1 over the neutron count as the neutron count gets bigger this number gets smaller. So you get a curve that comes down and as it comes down it tends to level off. And where the line crosses 0 that’s when the mass is critical. That’s when you have a self-sustaining nuclear reaction. And of course the process of that is disassembly is the rule of thumb. That’s what happened down in Los Alamos with the slope that was tickling the Dragons Tail when he was trying to find out what the critical mass was for an plutonium bomb. And of course he got an excess of radiation and he died from it. But we would never go up past 98% critical. We could identify that very readily. But as a consequence of that we were able to correct that self-multiplication as we had more of that 240 in these weapons parts.</p>
<p>TERRI: So that’s what they called Tickling the Dragons Tail? That’s what they called it?</p>
<p>RAY: That’s what Los Alamos called it. We called it critical mass analysis.</p>
<p>TERRI: What was that about Rubber Knees?</p>
<p>RAY: Oh that was the instrument technician you know because when you keep stacking stuff up and you get more and more neutron emissions well you know …when will it go critical? That’s why independently Dwayne (Dr. Clayton), Bob Stevenson, and myself all did triplicate analyses of where we were and we had to agree 100%. No disagreement between the three of us. And then we’d take it a next step but we would predict what the next step would be. Then we would go back to our calculations and see if our prediction was correct. So as a consequence of that we were able to determine what the self-multiplication was with this higher isotope concentration. The other fact was that we used an americium-beryllium source as our trigger in the weapons components to get our neutron readings. From our equations we could calculate the emacivity for these weapons parts. Well what happens is as your americium-beryllium ages americium decays and as a consequence you don’t get the same emission rate. And so what you have to do then is you have to correct your calculations for that. Well I got into an argument with the people at Los Alamos over this and they said you don’t have to worry about that. Well we were pushing the limits on our reactions out here to get maximum production and it did make a difference. So we finally got an allowance from them that would allow us to correct for the age of our americium-beryllium source. So some more of the interesting aspects of working at the 234-5 building.</p>
<p>TERRI: Sounds like an awful lot of math.</p>
<p>RAY: Oh yeah.</p>
<p>TERRI: It does to me it sounds like an awful lot of math. And you didn’t have calculators?</p>
<p>RAY: Oh yeah we did. We had Freeden-Marchant mechanical calculators. And of course we had our slide rules. And slide rules are good to 3 decimal points. Three significant figures I should say not 3 decimal points. And by interpolating you can stretch it to 4.</p>
<p>TERRI: Kind of like if you knew generally what it should be then it probably is going to be if you are out 3 figures already. If you can see patterns then you pretty much figure out what the next one was going to be.</p>
<p>RAY: Yeah you can interpolate yeah. I learned an awful lot about math.</p>
<p>TERRI: Well when we take kids through the museum one of the things that I have them do when they look at the exhibit of the office up there is I ask them …Where is the computer? Where is the calculator? And of course there isn’t one. But there is a slide rule there. And when I tell them that’s what they used they just look at me. And I just look back and think I don’t know how to do it either. (Laughter).</p>
<p>RAY: Well there are tricks you can use with a slide rule to extend it to 5 figures but that’s pushing it just a little bit too far.</p>
<p>TERRI: Just a little bit. Then did you find that when you were here working did the other women were they accepting of the fact that we’re just not going to talk about it?</p>
<p>Mary: Oh yes you didn’t talk about it because well one thing that happened was the first year we were here some man tried to crawl into the window of the women’s dorm. He was out of here out of town the next day. That was the end of that. Even though that wasn’t a security infraction. I mean as far as the plant was concerned. He was out.</p>
<p>TERRI: Well I’ll bet that may have scared some of the women and if they lost some of the women they would have to replace them. So in a way it’s a security concern.</p>
<p>MARY: Another thing that happened with Roger before he came out here. When he knew he was coming the FBI went to his parents in St. Paul. It scared the daylights out of them. They couldn’t imagine why the FBI was investigating him …what had he done? It was just so he could work here.</p>
<p>ROGER: That is the exact words my mother used … Roger what have you done? (Laughter).</p>
<p>MARY: Well he couldn’t tell her what he was doing and she was really upset about that having the FBI.</p>
<p>TERRI: Now back then did they wear the same suit that they wear now? You can spot an FBI guy by their suit.</p>
<p>MARY: I don’t know about that. Well I don’t think they dress that way now so much. We have a relative that’s an FBI agent. He’s pretty casual.</p>
<p>RAY: Well there was very tight security. As I say I got into some advanced clearances. But what really ticked me off was I went back east with GE and I became the manager of the new product development section of GE Wire and Cable. In that operation there we were working on some new systems for Phased Array Radar. Or super detection of highflying objects or things like that. Well I had to go back through and get another clearance check because in the military the Air Force in that area does not recognize the AEC “Q” clearances or weapons clearances. So they had to go back through all my history again. I had to write down all my jobs when I was there what I did there and so forth. And when I moved, what my addresses were. Who I knew and things like that. Their list of questions was much tougher than the AEC “Q” clearance.</p>
<p>TERRI: Now once it got out what Hanford did what they were doing over the years. Was there any problem with people not wanting to come here and work here? Did you notice any difference in like people wanting the jobs?</p>
<p>RAY: People follow money.</p>
<p>ROGER: There was a junior depression in the late 30’s I think that attracted a lot of the construction workers. This was a good deal.</p>
<p>RAY: Wages were high here.</p>
<p>TERRI: So even well I’m thinking now later on when people started to become more fearful of atomic things. It seems like for a while everything atomic was wonderful. It was the new coming age. And the in the media in comics and things you started getting a darker side. I’m wondering if there was any problem recruiting?</p>
<p>RAY: People trade on fears. People trade on fears.</p>
<p>MARY: Well especially the anti-nukes on the west side of the state. They are very anti Hanford. And they promote a lot of publicity that is anti-nuke and it scares people there. When Roger worked in the museum when it was still in the federal building, a man brought his mother in and she said, " Well is there any radiation in the museum?" And her son said, “ Well of course mother there is.” And she wasn’t going to walk in to the museum. She believed him. (Laughter) Well of course it wasn’t true. You wouldn’t have a museum with radiation in it.</p>
<p>RAY: You’d get cosmic bombardment.</p>
<p>TERRI: If you had a sunroof. Oh no radiation from the sun.</p>
<p>ROGER: We had Fiesta ware. Dangerously radioactive.</p>
<p>RAY: Yeah. This ceramicist well actually he was a stone carver. I forget his name now. But he was going to make a stone for B Reactor. A round block.</p>
<p>MARY: Jim Accord?</p>
<p>RAY: Yeah Jim Accord. And of course he collected all these Fiesta ware dishes and he pulverized them and took the glazing off them which has uranium in it. And he collected his uranium that way. Of course he’s got lots of stories about all the problems that he had because he had this uranium from the Fiesta ware that he had concentrated that he used as a radiation source. To listen to him and all the problems that he had the way that they treated him was just absolutely asinine. But that’s because of scare stories through the media.</p>
<p>ROGER: He did finally get a license.</p>
<p>RAY: He got a license.</p>
<p>ROGER: And he had it tattooed on the back of his neck. Maybe he had too much radiation. (Laughter).</p>
<p>RAY: Well then we had a chemist out here by the name of Gaylen Windsor. I don’t know if you have ever heard of him. But he worked out there. He had a house not too far from where Ralph lives. He used to give lectures and talks about the radioactivity and things like that and how these people were nuts about how dangerous uranium was. So he had a little sample of uranium oxide. It’s very green so he gave a lick on his tongue and shows that green tongue and thinks nothing of it because the amount of radiation active in uranium is very small. In reality it’s a very low level of radioactivity. And then there’s the guy who worked in the beryllium research back AmesIowa. They were working on uranium processing back there at the University of Ames, Iowa there. He always chewed snoose. So he always had these dregs on the sides of his mouth from this snoose.</p>
<p>TERRI: Was that like chewing a tobacco?</p>
<p>RAY: Yeah chewing tobacco. Anyway working in this area where they have lots of this dust uranium dust it was green. So they used to call him the Green Hornet. (Laughter). And then when he retired from that job or left that job they wanted to take a bone section to determine how much radioactivity he had in his system. He absolutely refused. He said you’re not going to cut me up.</p>
<p>MARY: One of the other places was on the buses in town. There were big signs … Silence Means Security. If you went to the movies that was flashed on the screen. It was everyplace. You got a big dose of security. You just didn’t talk about it unless you wanted to be out of a job and out of town. You just shut up.</p>
<p>TERRI: Now was that rumored or did you know that people had to end up having to leave in a hurry? Beside the one guy you tried to…</p>
<p>MARY: The one man is the only one we knew of for sure. But there were probably others. But you just did not do anything that would jeopardize security.</p>
<p>RAY: You just maintained your own integrity. If you screwed it up you weren’t of the quality to continue working here couldn’t be trusted.</p>
<p>TERRI: So it wasn’t a matter so much of government repression as it was a matter of integrity. That you were doing something to help win the war to help advance science.</p>
<p>RAY: And it was an attitude too.</p>
<p>TERRI: And if people didn’t maintain that they probably wouldn’t want to stay.</p>
<p>MARY: That’s right.</p>
<p>AUDIENCE MEMBER: I knew a lady whose husband worked here he was no longer alive. He was hired in the very early days when they were just starting. She said the interviewer giving the interview said, " Do you talk in your sleep?" He said, “Why? Why has that anything to do with it?” “We can’t hire you because you are known to talk in your sleep.”</p>
<p>TERRI: Wow-wow!</p>
<p>AUDIENCE MEMBER: You might say something to your wife.</p>
<p>TERRI: And who knows what she might be ahhhh! So now the wives who didn’t work did they have to get security clearances too?</p>
<p>EVERYONE: No.</p>
<p>TERRI: So just the women that went to work.</p>
<p>MARY: But I didn’t. You were supposed to go to a security meeting when you started working at Hanford. I went to one the day before I quit. (Laughter) That was the first and only one I ever went to.</p>
<p>TERRI: How long did you work?</p>
<p>MARY: About 6 months- 7 months.</p>
<p>TERRI: So then they may have been very efficient in making all of this other stuff but they weren’t very efficient at keeping track of who had their meetings.</p>
<p>MARY: No.</p>
<p>TERRI: Well they just took one look at you and they knew that you didn’t need this. (Laughter).</p>
<p>MARY: Oh sure. I don’t think so. I don’t think so. (More laughter). No they didn’t trust anybody, which is fine.</p>
<p>AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well did you know anything? I mean you said you didn’t talk about anything. But did you actually know anything?</p>
<p>MARY: No because you were only told what you needed to know for your specific job.</p>
<p>TERRI: Do you think that’s why you really don’t feel much fear? Because you really didn’t know what was going on?</p>
<p>MARY: Exactly.</p>
<p>RAY: I would say no. It depends what job you were in. I wasn’t a nurse in that part of it. But I was out there in the middle of where we handled parts that went into the Atomic Bombs.</p>
<p>TERRI: But you didn’t know what was going on. Really.</p>
<p>RAY: Oh yes we did.</p>
<p>TERRI: Oh you did know.</p>
<p>RAY: Oh absolutely.</p>
<p>TERRI: Well she asked if you did know what was going on.</p>
<p>ROGER: Not in ’44 though.</p>
<p>RAY: No not in ’44.</p>
<p>TERRI: Ok. That’s what I think she was talking about the fear factor and I was wondering if that was because people only knew what they needed to know.</p>
<p>MARY: We didn’t have any fear about it.</p>
<p>ROGER: Well you didn’t know what to fear.</p>
<p>RAY: Depending on what job you had- yes and no. Again back to when we were producing the plutonium parts for the thermonuclear devices it was a whole new world. Because now you were making in essence you were making a container for the Tritium Bombs. And of course that had to be some very tough specifications. Also it increased the inventory of plutonium that we had to deal with. And we had a very limited space in which to handle this stuff. So we had this so called “Remote Mechanical A-Line” in part of our area where plutonium was being fabricated made into parts for the thermonuclear devices. And so I guess I can say they looked kind of like a hemispherical piece like a soup bowl or something. And so when it came down to … how much can you store in a given area? We used to have what we call mass limits. So many kilograms of plutonium would be in one type of area. But when we got into this area it was a more of a distributed shape rather than a compact shape. So now the question was how many of these things could you have in your storage array? Well we didn’t know. We didn’t know an awful lot about the mathematics of fast neutron systems. So Bob Stevenson and I and Dwayne Clayton got together again and said well the only way we can find out is to measure it. So again we stacked these things up in this storage array- an endless track kind of an oval. So when the operators wanted some … rotate around to get a piece that they wanted. Well again we did this on weekends. We went out there and we stacked these things up and we had a pretty good inventory of this stuff. So we would stack them up and we’d take our neutron count. Then make the calculations. Make our predictions. And that was the next step. And then when we got all done we had just short of a kiloton of plutonium in this one storage configuration. And we got up to a multiplication factor where we figured we were about 98% critical. But we went that far and we knew what we dealing with and how we were dealing with it and we had replicate instruments again to verify our neutron counts. And we had the three guys to verify the calculations and our predictions. And so we were able to come up with those kinds of controls. Today we couldn’t do that because of the fear mongering in the media that’s been creating fear and doubt in people’s minds. But if you knew what the heck you were doing. And if you monitored what you were doing. And you verified what you were doing. Without an error check going to lead. There was no limit to what you could do to get the kind of controls that you needed to meet the demand for weapons components to meet the insatiable appetite of the Cold War. It was just a kind of production frenzy… worldwide. So you knew what you were doing. You didn’t have to have someone telling you. You had to know what you were doing based on theory and physics based on the real world and control these things. You certainly wouldn’t want somebody in there that wouldn’t be responsible.</p>
<p>TERRI: Well in a weekend we get people from all over visiting the museum. We get all kinds of people with all kinds of fears. I’m going to tell you a couple of stories that are on the ridiculous end. But what I want you to maybe move us into reality. One was a group of school children who came by bus from the west side. And they were here for a full day. They were going through the museum. They were doing some other activities. And they were going to have lunch out by the Columbia River. And the teacher had gotten them so worked up they were afraid to sit by the river to eat their lunch. So now we’re on the ridiculous end of the scale right. Moving a little bit farther up the ridiculous scale. Remember in the paper not too long ago there was a guy that was swimming the Columbia? I understand that when he went by Hanford he put on a special suit. (Laughter) And he had people in boats going with him with radiation monitors to make sure he was ok. Now what I wanted to do was get into the collections and get into one of those suits and go out by the river with a Geiger counter and just point at it and go … OOOOOHHH! But my boss didn’t think that was such a great idea. (Laughter). So from your perspective from both of you having worked at Hanford a long time. And you from the medical viewpoint. Do you think that was a reasonable thing to see him in that suit or was it overkill?</p>
<p>RAY: It was stupidity.</p>
<p>TERRI: Pure stupidity ok. (Laughter).</p>
<p>RAY: I often think about giving up my little ion exchange water purifier to Ecology in Olympia so they could dismantle it. It’s been fully spent so I know there is a lot of residue in there. It may have some radionuclides in it of some kind. I offered to give that to them so they could dismantle it and check it … no strontium or cesium or whatever they might find. As it turns out that we have more uranium going down the river than we have from Hanford. Same way with thorium and of course radon. And tritium is in there from natural cosmic radiation quite a lot of it. As a matter of fact when we sampled deep water as part of the Basalt project that we working on many years back in the ‘70s. We had to take our deep-water samples and we had to bring them up into an argon atmosphere so there would no carbon dioxide from this atmosphere getting into this water because we felt that would taint it. As it turns out it didn’t. Atmospheric contamination of carbon-40 or something like that didn’t taint those water samples. So now you are looking for archaic water. How old is the water underground here? There is more radioactivity in the environment and we can tolerate that. We did some studies on that.</p>
<p>TERRI: Roger you had a story come to mind.</p>
<p>ROGER: Oh a fear story this is a story presumably true after the word got out about what Hanford was doing. Pasco was concerned about drinking water. So the lab sent a scientist down there to explain it all to them. Then after about a half hour nobody caught on to what he was saying. They couldn’t quite understand this complicated theories of stuff. So somebody said from the audience, "Should we drink the water or shouldn’t we?" He thought about it for a second and he said, “ I’ll give you the rule of 85. If you drank 85 gallons a day for 85 years you would get the maximum permissible dose for a civilian. So drink it.” (Laughter). Well Richland and Kennewick drink the stuff. It does take care of your hair though. (Laughter).</p>
<p>TERRI: Nice and soft I can see that. (More laughter).</p>
<p>MARY: Well we did have trouble with people in Pasco and Kennewick. When we came there were almost no stores in Richland. C C Anderson’s was in that building where Ariel's is. And that was a nice store. But we didn’t have dime stores and drug stores and all that good stuff and so we’d go to Pasco and Kennewick. Well when they found out that we worked and lived in Richland…Forget it we’re not selling it to you. I had one woman refuse to sell me more than one spool of thread because we lived here.</p>
<p>TERRI: Well why?</p>
<p>MARY: Because well they were so suspicious of everyone who lived in Richland because they didn’t know what was going on. They didn’t know we didn’t know either. (Laughter). They just didn’t…there was the Fear Factor there on their part. They didn’t understand what was going on and they didn’t want anything to do with Richland people.</p>
<p>RAY: In the ‘40s and early ‘50s the political parties the rest of the counties would not accept like the Republican Party would not accept the Republicans from Richland as part of their leadership. When I worked on the Eisenhower campaign in 1951 I was absolutely surprised that Pasco and Kennewick had that kind of mentality with respect to the people in Richland. We were a foreign nation for all practical purposes.</p>
<p>MARY: That’s the way we were treated.</p>
<p>TERRI: That’s amazing.</p>
<p>AUDIENCE MEMBER: With all the emphasis this weekend about B Reactor- 60<sup>th</sup> Anniversary of Startup I think it would be really interesting to hear you both describe the changes. Now it was designed for 250 megawatts and before it was shut down it was over 2000. Would you run through a sequence of events that let happen.</p>
<p>RAY: Well I never followed reactor technology very closely except as it related to the production quality coming out of Hanford.</p>
<p>AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well part of it was a change of fuel.</p>
<p>RAY: Change of fuel. Also a reconfiguration of the fuel distribution in the reactor. I know that much about it. They flattened the flex. This gets into some rather complicated physics.</p>
<p>TERRI: You know I think we will wrap up in a couple of minutes then if you guys want to talk complicated physics.</p>
<p>MARY: I have one thing to say…B Reactor is not the only one celebrating their 60<sup>th</sup> anniversary. In two weeks we’ll have our 60<sup>th</sup> anniversary.</p>
<p>TERRI: Oh! (Applause).</p>
<p>ROGER: Seems like it was just yesterday.</p>
<p>MARY: I have another story about the early days.</p>
<p>ROGER: As a matter of fact there’s nothing that isn’t a story about the early days. (Laughter).</p>
<p>MARY: I was just going to say…When the Villager came out and said that the Bomb had been dropped and the war was over. Everybody was out celebrating. The people next door to us were standing out there drinking a cocktail and the park was full of people celebrating and it was just really an exciting time. Finally we knew what was going on. That was the first knew. We never knew a thing until then.</p>
<p>TERRI: That must have been exciting.</p>
<p>MARY: It was exciting.</p>
<p>TERRI: Ok last story Roger.</p>
<p>ROGER: Alright. This is Greger’s…I think there was a lot of contingency in the early reactors. And of course they weren’t sure what to expect. So they did a lot things just to make sure that everything worked right. One of the things that they did they even had a de-aerator to take the air out of the water because any nitrogen or argon with the water would absorb neutrons and slow down the reaction. And they talked about getting colder water. One plant even had a giant air conditioner, which was never used. And there were other factors like Ray mentioned they increased the uranium-238 to get more neutrons. And there were small steps along the way that just got snowballed.</p>
<p>AUDIENCE MEMBER: When I was out there they changed the diameter and the configuration of the fuel elements by having a hole there right in the center.</p>
<p>RAY: That was N Reactor.</p>
<p>ROGER: Even the old reactors.</p>
<p>TERRI: Well I would like to thank you guys very much for coming. You know what I think? I’m relieved that there wasn’t a whole lot of fear. I really am. I’m glad there were confidant people that were working on these things that knew what they were doing and I don’t worry about living here. In upstate New York some of my relatives were a little concerned when I moved here. We moved here during the time of the burping tank and made national news and they were all a little bit worried but having met people like you guys and people who have worked here since the beginning I know I have a lot of confidence in science and the scientists and I am very optimistic about the future of the area. </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
Duration
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01:16:35
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317kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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The Fear Factor
Subject
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Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
An account of the resource
Roger Rohrbacher, Mary Rohrbacher, and Ray Issacson describe their experiences during the construction and subsequent operation of HEW facilities during WWII and the early years of the Cold War.
Creator
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CREHST Museum
Publisher
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Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
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10/12/2004
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Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project
Language
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English
Identifier
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RG1D-4A / T.2010.052.011
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fdf53af79d7672ec05786669522e8fb9a.mp4
95bca4dd9f7326eaf51dba9539cfb722
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
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Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
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CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
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1999-2013
Rights
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All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
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English.
Identifier
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RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
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Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
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1943-1990
Provenance
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Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
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Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
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Terry Andre
Interviewee
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Steve Buckingham, Tom Clement, Joan Sherwood, Margaret Fortune, Phyllis Granquist, Paul Beardsley
Location
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CREHST Museum
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TITLE: ABC HOUSES PANEL
INTERVIEW DATE: MARCH 23, 1999
INTERVIEW LOCATION: CREHST MUSEUM
INTERVIEWER: TERRY ANDRE
INTERVIEWED: STEVE BUCKINGHAM, TOM CLEMENT, JOAN SHERWOOD, MARGARET FORTUNE, PHYLLIS GRANQUIST, PAUL BEARDSLEY
TRANSCRIBER: JUDY SIMPSON
LENGTH: 57.34 MIN.
TERRY: My name is Terry Andre; I am the Education Coordinator here at CREHST. We have a number of different education programs; many of them geared toward children and some of them for all ages or family. Tonight’s program; we have some very special people here; many of whom volunteer for the Museum. What we will be talking about tonight “What it was like living in the Dust”. I know we think; we have dust, but you might hear some stories that there was dust and then again there is dust. What I would like to do is have our group here introduce themselves; starting with you (Steve Buckingham) and going around. If you could introduce yourself and what letter house you did live in or currently living in and what year you first moved into one of those houses. I would appreciate it.
STEVE: My name is Steve Buckingham; I first lived in the dormitories’. Then when we got married we moved into a “B” House, and then we moved to Kennewick. (Group and audience are laughing)
UNKNOWN: So you bought a “B” House?
TOM: I am Tom Clement; When DuPont transferred me here, why I wasn’t married. They gave me enough gas stamps to drive out here from Ohio; I had some of them left over so I took a vacation in June and went up to “Lazy F Ranch” up in Ellensburg and there I met my wife in Seattle. We got married in August; we moved into a “B” House in December; we took the first one we could get. We stayed there until after the War; our oldest son, Tom, was born there; then we moved out to Kennewick and we bought a farm out there; moved out there. It got so it took an hour to get to Richland after the, this is after the war, and the construction had started at Hanford again. It took an hour to get to work so it took two hours one-way. So that is when we moved back in where we are now in a “Q” House; we have lived in a “Q“ House ever since they were built; right across from Chief Joseph‘s. It has been a very interesting situation I think.
JOAN: I am Joan Sherwood; my husband came out here in December of “55”and came back to Schenectady, New York in April to get married. So we came here as honeymooners to Richland; that was in 1956. We lived in a Prefab; a 3 bedroom Prefab for 2 years and then bought a Ranch, a “Y”; lived in that house until 1965.
MARGARET: I am Margaret Fortune, and we washed in on the Flood of 1948. We live in a trailer for a little while because we could not get a house at all. Then we had a 3 bedroom Prefab and we live there for awhile; then moved into a “C” House when they were built. Then when they sold the houses they would not sell us half of it; well we said “Okay we will find something else so we bought a “V” House; a 3 bedroom Precut; we lived in it until we built our present home in 1963.” I taught school, at the John Ball School, out in North Richland; course a lot of you might know it as (inaudible). I haven’t done anything but taught school; it was a Hutment School. We’ll talk about that.
PAUL: I’m Paul Beardsley; I arrived here on the on the 29th day of December, 1943. I spent the night in what was called transient’s quarters at that time. I was just telling this lady (Phyllis) that; that one thing that was rather unique about that was that they opened that Hotel for occupation on the 24th of December of 1943 and we got in on the 29th of December; the labels were still stuck on all of the blankets, the sheets, and everything else. I was assigned to the patrol group; since I came from a DuPont plant in Oklahoma as an instructor. I had to spend my 2 weeks of time in Hanford to get oriented about what was going on; didn’t find out very much, but found out a little bit. So when I came here; when I was transferred back to Richland. I was not eligible for a house until November of “44”. I got a 3 bedroom Prefab up on the corner of Williams and Wright. Where the Spalding School sets that was where the railroad was that went out to the plant. After that, after my son had small pox and so forth; I got drafted in April. So I had to leave so we moved back to Okalahoma City. I went in the Navy; I was in the Navy for a little over nine months; got out on the basis of having three children. One, I had two when I left here and one waiting to come; when the third one came well that was an automatic “out of the service” as far as the Navy was concerned. So I got out of the Navy and I called out here and talked to them and they said, “Come back”; you can have your job back. I had just been elevated to a Lieutenant just before I got notice that I was going to have to go into to the service. I came back at the same rate that I was before I left. I got an “A” House; I was in that “A” House for about 18 months. My wife had an accident; broke one of her feet and leg; so at that time they were building the Ranch Houses; so I called upon because I had three children and had another one on the way, the fourth one, the only fruit picker that is with them, with the family. I got the “Z” House, and the Ranch Houses, those are a 4 bedroom, Ranch. It has been altered to the fact that there are only 2 bedrooms in it now. So I have been here ever since.
PHYLLIS: My name is Phyllis Granquist came to Richland very large with child in 1947. We had an “A” House waiting for us; which always reminded me of a Monopoly Hotel. I am still in the “A” House; still climbing up those 13 stairs on the one side; I sort of live half way on the other side too; since I had a sewing alteration sort of business, on the other side which gave me room to expand. I am still in that darn old “A” House.
TERRY: Now how many of these houses had lawns already or how many people had to plant their lawns?
TOM: No lawn we had to plant it.
PHYLLIS: No lawn.
TOM: Had to plant it.
PAUL: When I moved to the Ranch House there wasn’t anything but dirt…
TOM: That’s right.
PAUL: because that was the first of the Ranch Houses that was occupied; I think it was in March of “40”; tell me,
PHYLLIS: In “43”?
PAUL: No, No, No, No, No, it was not until “47” or “48“I think.
PHYLLIS: The Ranch House?
PAUL: Yes, the Ranch House “48”.
PHYLLIS: We could get the book. It will be in the book.
PAUL: She was talking about dust.
STEVE: You know they painted the houses; they were painting the outside of the houses during a dust storm one time; our houses are dust colored. There were three, or you had your choice of four. I think you had your choice of four colors; green, blue…
(The sentence is inaudible).
TOM: (inaudible)
PAUL: Yeah. Yeah.
STEVE: Oh that didn’t carry good… and beige.
TERRY: So you could pick the inside colors?
STEVE: Yeah, you get your house painted every 3 years.
TOM: Yes
PAUL: The outside of your house that was another subject… The inside you could almost; at least they gave you a selection to choose from.
TERRY: Was it red?
PHYLLIS: Oh yeah, it was the outside a red color.
PAUL: They gave you a selection to choose from.
TERRY: Was it red (houses)?
PHYLLIS: It was rust…brown…ah….color.
STEVE: Bargain paint color.
TERRY: That was a bargain color, okay.
MARGARET: If you lived in a Prefab or sometimes precut sometimes you had a peach tree or some kind of fruit tree on the premises.
PHYLLIS: Oh yeah, good or fruit trees. We got the Chinese Elm.
JOAN: We had a prune tree (inaudible- possibly out on our Prefab).
TERRY: What about the Prefabs were any of you in them when they had the flat roofs?
GROUP: All answered, “They all had flat roofs”.
TERRY: How long did the flat roofs last?
PAUL: Until they sold them.
TERRY: Really that long? Oh.
PHYLLIS: (Inaudible) I watched them go out, two of them around my area.
PAUL: I was not sure if they were done then or not.
STEVE: The hot water tank used to be right in the kitchen; there was hardly any room in the kitchen; the hot water tank took-up about half of it. Then when they put the pitch roof on they put the hot water tank up in that new attic; it leaked.
PHYLLIS: Yeah, and then they built a little thing to get into the attic, but you had to have a ladder to climb up on the outside.
STEVE: When the wind blew.
PHYLLIS: If the water tank leaked you were in real trouble.
TERRY: How would you ever get the water tank out?
PHYLLIS: Who cares?
GROUP: Laughing. I don’t know.
PHYLLIS: Leave it there and find a place for it downstairs.
PAUL: I found out that a hot water tank belongs on the ground floor not the…not up in the attic. I had one that leaked.
TERRY: The movie I was running earlier, “Termination Winds” they were talking about a night coming home from work and going into the wrong house. Is this a true story?
STEVE: Well it happened to me indirectly; I was single at the time and I was dating a young lady; she lived in an “A” House; up in one of those little cul-de-sacs’ off of Sayers‘. I took her after the dance; I took her home and dropped her off in front of the house. She got clear upstairs before she realized; she was in the wrong house; somebody was snoring; she said, “Nobody in their house snored”. You know Richland was a very safe town; we never locked the doors. There was absolutely no crime in Richland. Why would you lock your doors?
TOM: That wasn’t on Black Court, was it?
STEVE: Well that was almost 50 years ago.
PHYLLIS: Someone came into your house?
TOM: No, I don‘t know. (Laughing)
STEVE: The houses were all decorated the same and all the same furniture.
TERRY: So the government really did provide the furniture?
GROUP: All answered yes.
STEVE: Yes everything was furnished.
PHYLLIS: I still have a lot of it.
STEVE: Even the light bulbs.
PAUL: Heywood Wakefield, I think was the furniture. It was good furniture; very good furniture. Yeah.
STEVE: It was Maple; Maple furniture. We still have some.
PAUL: There is still a lot of it around.
TOM: Oh yeah.
TERRY: Now you mentioned too, about the light bulb.
STEVE: Yeah the light bulbs were furnished.
PHYLLIS: And window shades.
UNKNOWN: And the coal was furnished.
PHYLLIS: You would go down to; you know where the Public Health is now, that was the storage or something; that is where you went in. You really had to talk to those people in there to get new window shades. They were just stingy about it. Then the kind you had to wind-up with a fork you know; then you would let go and whish; oh they were dangerous.
PAUL: I just noticed in the paper, I believe it was today or yesterdays’, this guy Challises that had shot-up old Bill up there (inaudible) his father ran the shop where you could get your furniture. That was in the building where City Hall sits now; now sits. From the corner of what is that Lee?
PHYLLIS: Jadwin.
PAUL: Jadwin and what is that?
PHYLLIS: Swift.
PAUL: Swift, yeah right. I aught to know where they are, but I can’t do it.
STEVE: Then the other joy was the furnace.
GROUP: Oh yes!
STEVE: In the “O’s” and “A’s” and “B’s” and all those houses.
PHYLLIS: I still got that big thing you stuck out there and made that terrible noise; that shook the clunkers down. I hung on to it.
TERRY: I have no idea what you are talking about.
STEVE: They were big old natural draft coal furnaces; big huge things. Coal was furnished you know. When you needed a ton of coal you just called the tenet service and they would deliver a ton of coal. In the winter time; you know you would try to bank fires so it would last all night. Enviably that dam furnace would blowup.
PHYLLIS: Oh, I remember that.
STEVE: The coal gas would accumulate and it would ignite and blow the door off the furnace. The house would fill full of smoke.
PHYLLIS: When they delivered that coal; you really never new when they were coming. They would just come and drive-up; they would open that little window, because they apparently knew which window to open, it would be awful if they… That coal rumbling in and be all sooty and awful.
TERRY: What about the Prefabs?
STEVE: The Prefabs were electric heat.
JOAN: They were 220 heaters and you could plug them in any place.
MARGARET: We had a young couple that lived right across the street from us and lived in a 1 bedroom Prefab. She was in the habit of running out to hang her things on the line and every time she’d go out the door would lock behind her. So she would come over to our house to call downtown; they would come to open the door for her. That happened about every week; I think. I told her, “Put a key outdoors some place so you do not have to call”; I guess they finally got tired of it. She did do it.
STEVE: In the wintertime, in the morning, people would be firing up the furnace to get up; get that old furnace up. There would be a black haze over town. When our baby arrived we tried to hang diapers; they didn’t have dryers in those days; they could dry over the furnace or hang them up. We had the dingiest diapers in town; black soot over everything. That was in addition to the dust.
TOM: They gave you a clothes line though.
GROUP: All agreeing nodding their heads.
UNKNOWN: I remember the close line up side down.
GROUP: Every one is agreeing with the last statement.
PAUL: I can remember when I was living up there in the Prefabs. The only telephones that were available to the people who were somebody; I mean they were the top dogs; they had telephones; but the rest of us had to go down the street to a telephone pole to use a phone.
GROUP: All agreeing and nodding their heads.
TOM: I remember that.
PAUL: So we get notice from the airport out here; I happened to be stupid like most men can be stupid once in awhile. I was riding a motorcycle and I didn’t have any more idea of what I was doing except I knew that it would go. We would get notice from the Airport that there was going to be a wind storm; well because all the houses all had these umbrella clothes lines, We would drive along and had a horn; and we would notify people to let those things down; because boy I tell you the wind would hit those things and they would lift off because of that kind of stuff.
TERRY: How would you be identified if you didn’t have a phone? Who would notify you at the start?
PAUL: Well they notified patrol headquarters for the airport and they’d give us that information; then we would go out all of the guys either in cars or out on bikes; going out through the town notifying people that there was a wind storm on the way to put their clothes lines down. That was the only communication that you had; if you were sick it was almost impossible to get; you just had to go to the hospital or you had to go where the doctors were; that was the only way you could get any treatment, because couldn’t call and have somebody come out until they finally got telephones for people. It was a mess for awhile.
PHYLLIS: We got a phone because I was pregnant at the time; that was the only reason; well that was fine. Then I got an ulcerated tooth, only one I ever had in my life; I didn’t know the name of any of the Dentists; so I called up the operator and I said, “I just don’t know”, so she read me off all the names of the Dentists in town; it came to close to sounding Scandinavian; I said, “That one is fine”. He was our Dentist for many years. I was fortunate.
TERRY: Tom did you have a comment?
PAUL: Well when my son came down with scarlet fever;
TERRY: Jump in Tom.
PAUL: of course at that time, the Health Department came out and of course you were quarantined; I mean they put the big sign on the house and nobody could get well…milk was delivered by Carnation Milk…
PHYLLIS: Oh yes, I remember.
PAUL: and so we were instructed to tell the Carnation people that they were not to pickup any of the bottles that had been used; so we would stack them up when; they would leave the boxes they were in; we had, I’ll bet you we had 50 or 60 boxes or I mean gallon bottles stacked up out on the side of the house. At that time they treated that disease with ah, ah, I can’t even think of it now, but anyway it was one of those things that you had to drink a lot of water. That boy, I tell you, we were on his back all the time to drink that water; to drink that water; to drink that water. Back then I was paying him a nickel a glass. Even that money got scrubbed by the Health Department; they took all of those milk cartons down to wherever they take them; I suppose cleaned them or aerated them or whatever they did; that was one of the real experiences of. I could go in and out because I was working; my wife had to go in clothes that; she had to wear, what do you call them? The ladies wore the over there…
PHYLLIS: Kimono?
PAUL: Kimono yes or something likes that; every time she came in or out; I mean she had to change into it. We had one baby that was just about 6 months old; it was a little bit you know it was touch and go there for awhile hoping that nobody else was going to get that.
PHYLLIS: Was it small pox or was it scarlet fever?
PAUL: Scarlet fever.
JOAN: Well we came late to this party, so we missed a lot the stuff these guys went through. We were here about 3 month before we were able to get into a 3 bedroom Prefab up on Willard. The only thing that was furnished at that time was a very small range and a refrigerator. My first challenge was the windows; I made four fairly good size windows in the front of this house; the ceilings were not very high so the windows were almost floor to ceiling. I had to cover them quickly; I bought some sheets and had to go out and find a secondhand sewing machine so I could sew some curtains for this place. If you look at the pictures over there; all those little windows in front and all the little windows up each side. They were weird sizes you had to make them; you could not go out and buy curtains for these things. So that is what we had to do; there was no backdoor in the Prefab.
STEVE: Just a garbage door.
JOAN: Except that little trap thing…is that what it was?
STEVE: The garbage door.
JOAN: Garbage door, well we wondered.
TERRY: Was your Prefab skirted or did you have something around the bottom?
JOAN: I think it was skirted; I don’t think any of them had foundations.
STEVE: No.
JOAN: When they finally sold them they had to put a foundation under them.
PAUL: They moved 400 of them out; most of them went over to Pullman; to college and they were used by students the, fact of the matter is, would any of you know Rick Rile, he was (inaudible) he and his wife went to school over there and he lived in one of them; at that time when they were going to school. There were 400 of them that went out and then they were replaced by the Precuts; that is how come we got the Precuts.
MARGARET: I don’t know about curtains and how they worked when you got here (Joan); originally there were no curtain rods; you had to go down to down to CC Anderson’s to buy this little tape and fit it into this little slot; sewed the tape to a curtain and then these pieces were on the tape every so often; slide them on and that is how you got your curtains up.
STEVE: Prefab was interestingly slim they slid in the bedroom the kind of pulled in and slid over the slot; and when you put them back there was a latch on it; when the wind blew the dust would come in like you were standing outside.
GROUP: Some saying, “Yes that’s true”.
TERRY: I have a question for the ladies: What were the biggest challenges as far as the cooking or cleaning. In the movie, “Termination Wind Storm” it talks about keeping their plates turned over; until it was time to eat because the dust had come in. That isn’t true.
PAUL: That is a little far fetched.
JOAN: The dust was terrible.
PHYLLIS: The dust would come in and you would see little pyramids of dust after a storm; you would go around and see that. I said to myself “This is ridiculous I don’t want to put up with this all the time”; because I had to borrow a vacuum, we could not afford a vacuum, we borrowed one from a friend that came at the same time down at the other end of town. So I got this rope caulking, you know that grey round stuff, I just stuffed it in all the windows of course you could never get the window open again. But that stopped it and everybody else kept complaining they could not figure out; I thought I was doing…I thought I was pretty smart.
TERRY: You didn’t have any air conditioning?
STEVE: No.
PHYLLIS: I had a swamp cooler; which was a terrible thing.
UNKNOWN: They were a live saver.
PHYLLIS: After awhile they got moldy.
STEVE: Swamp cooler oh yeah.
STEVE: It had excelsior in it that water would drip over it and let the air through.
PAUL: The Ranch House’s had oil or the first they were coal; it was such a lousy firebox. You know about three ounces of coal in there and you would hope it would make it through the night, but it never did. In order to keep them from putting another thing on the house, one of these evaporators,
PHYLLIS: Swamp coolers.
PAUL: swamp coolers. What I did was I took the back room or I guess you want to say porch no that is not what they called it, it was a utility room. I took that window out and I put one of those wire things in there with that brown…what they call…that tank.
STEVE: Excelsior?
PAUL: Excelsior and put a little hose up at the top so that the water would come down; then a drain pan with a hose.
It ran on down the side of the house; but I had to image what happened at the backdoor.
PHYLLIS: Flowers.
PAUL: No, it was not on the flowers; it was right at the backdoor; where that happened there wasn’t any concrete so
I really had a muddy mess for awhile. Then you take the cover off the furnace and turn it on; that would pull the air and it would go through it and down; distribute it. It worked pretty well for awhile.
TERRY: What was there for shopping?
PHYLLIS: Campbell’s Grocery.
Joan: CC Anderson.
STEVE: Every neighborhood had a little grocery store, drug store you know in almost every neighborhood.
PHYLLIS: We had Thrifty Drug.
STEVE: Yes. Then Downtown over here in the Greenway there was a CC Andersons’.
PHYLLIS: We had one Safeway didn’t we?
STEVE: Yes a Safeway.
UNKNOWN: That was just across the street from CC Anderson’.
STEVE: Yeah right.
JOAN: And Finns was there the “Photographer”.
PHYLLIS: And the Frontier Tavern was there.
TOM: Frontier Tavern yeah I remember that one.
PHYLLIS: It is still here.
PAUL: When I came here there was a grocery store on there where ah; what’s that place up on the corner of “B” and George Washington Way?
PHYLLIS: That would be the Salvation Army.
PAUL: No, No, not that one.
TOM: There was a grocery on south (inaudible).
Paul: Trustworthy Hardware was there. It is now called (inaudible) or whatever. That was a grocery store and the guy that had that grocery store, came down from Yakima, I will think of the name of it in a minute.
TOM: Garmos.
PAUL: No, No, No. Campbell’s was down where the church is; the Foundation Forest or the Forest Foundation or whatever and Garmos was up on what now is Goethals which was…
(There was a glitch in tape; dead time air.)
RESUMING TAPING:
PHYLLIS: That is not in town.
PAUL: The big building down here on…
TERRY: What did you do for fun?
STEVE: “What did we do for fun”, that’s a good question.
MARGARET: We went to the movies.
STEVE: Well I was single when I first came here; we formed an organization called “The Dorm Club” and we had some of the best parties. That is when we all met our wives. We would organize trips to the ball games; in fact I was the Social Chairman for a couple of years. We would go to plays, over in Seattle; or go to Pullman to a ball game; or Seattle for a ball game; go camping, organized camping trip. We never had any lack because skiing in the wintertime; we never had a lacked for something to do.
JOAN: The Richland Players and the Light Opera had things going on for a lot of years; so they put on show all the time.
PHYLLIS: I went to the movie theaters.
JOAN: We played a lot of bridge, a lot of bridge, neighborhoods you know.
STEVE: And lots of (inaudible).
UNKNOWN: Excuse me, wasn’t the gas rationed? So how did you? How are you able to go out of town?
STEVE: Well that was during the war; after the war the gas (inaudible) during the war. During the War you could not get any gas.
PAUL: During the war you could not get any gas.
PAUL: During the war you could not get any gas. There was gas here.
UNKNOWN: So this was after the War that you went traveling.
UNKNOWN: Out at old Hanford it was (inaudible).
STEVE: No I came after that.
UNKNOWN: That’s another lesson.
PAUL: Yeah right.
UNKNOWN: I was here January 11th to July; I believe (inaudible).
TOM: Were you. Was that in the Barracks‘?
UNKNOWN: Yeah. Yeah.
TOM: In what year?
UNKNOWN: What year? That would be “44”.
MARGARET: There was a dance place up at the south end of town. (Inaudible) they are saying something about the Social Club.
STEVE: Well there was the Castle Club and the…
PHYLLIS: There was “The Officer’s Club”.
STEVE: There was one out here south of the town…
PAUL: “The Korda Club” just across the street from where the City Sewer Plant used to be; there was a divider down there and it sit right in the middle of it. That was for all the employees in the plant except government employees. The government employees had their own it was called “The Castle Club” it was up where Westgate is now. It was an old house and they put another building along side it; that was where all the government employees went. Boy I’ll tell you what; they had some (inaudible) going through. I was up there for a couple of them, I’ll tell you what, and they were not for those who didn’t have a (inaudible).
STEVE: Out towards the Richland Y; the roadway used to be down on the flats before the flood. There was “The Red Mill” out there an old barn; then farther on out you could turn toward, up toward Prosser, there was “The Jungle Club” which was an after hours place. It got raided periodically. You know in those days “The Bottle Club” was the only…you had to bring your own bottle.
TERRY: Okay there was a (inaudible) the bottle club.
STEVE: There were “Bottle Clubs” you could not buy a mixed drink.
PAUL: I don’t think many people know that during that early part of, I guess it was in “43” and “44”; while they had Hanford going that there was one section that was for Blacks; I tell you they were just absolutely, they just about drove all we guys in patrol group; just about drove us all nuts. But all of the things that they had; there was a divider which the women were over here and the men were over here; just like it was where the white people was. There was a ladies Dorm and the rest of it was all the men’s. Oh I’ll tell you there wasn’t hardly…I was in Hanford for two weeks going through the school; I don’t think at least once every second day, or maybe it was the third day of the week, there was always, almost a revolt down in that Black area. Oh some of the meanest people, I’ll tell yah.
UNKNOWN: They wanted to be together.
PAUL: Uh? Yeah right. You just could hardly keep them apart.
TERRY: I heard a story was it yesterday or today; one of the docents was telling me that, “When the wind and sand storms would come-up and if you saw a kid playing out in the yard like a toddler or baby; you would just run and grab the kid and get him inside. Whether, it was yours or whom ever just to get the kid out of the dust; because they would get scared; then it would storm”. Anybody have that kind of story?
STEVE: Well you could see the storms coming in over the hills; just a brown cloud just descending down on town. Boy you would rush to get your laundry off the line.
JOAN: I’ll tell you my introduction to the Pacific Northwest; I am from Schenectady, New York; you know the Hudson Valley and the (inaudible) Valley; lush, green you know gorgeous. So we got married and we flew out; my husband had left the car in Spokane. We got into the car and got down as far as Ritzville and a dust storm came up. It was so bad that the State Patrol had a huge truck with these big spotlights on the back; they took each car through this area of dust. I do not know if they were going on a map…no not a map…
PAUL: Radar?
JOAN: I don’t know it was not radar. I don’t know how they got the truck through, but they would take a car through, and comeback and get a…I was terrified. By the time we got down to Pasco; well there was this big sign and I looked to see what it said, “Road Closed”. The road must have been closed just about as soon as we got on to it coming down 395. At that time, it was a two lane road and it was (she is showing with her hands how curvy the road was with her hands) terrible hi-way.
STEVE: It is still the closest with the dust storms.
PAUL: There are still plenty of the wheat fields up there.
GROUP: All are nodding their heads yes.
JOAN: Anyway that was my introduction. Coming into George Washington Way; and you know that Frank is pointing out this is; the post office; that is the Library; all this stuff. All I could see was these tiny little trees growing all along the road; nothing was very big yet.
PAUL: I think the maddest I have been since, I have been here, is when the changes Jadwin from, from, from…
UNKNOWN: Goethals?
PAUL: From Goethals, yes. I tell you I was absolutely mortified; because George ah what did you say?
PHYLLIS: Goethals.
PAUL: Goethals, George Goethals is the guy who built the Panama Canal. The fact of the matter is there is a hundred, I’ll tell you this story, there are a hundred and four streets in the Richland area; that are all named after Core of Engineers, engineers. I had a big fat run in, not more than about two months ago, with the City because a little two block; up where Denzel’s is now called “Ogden ” and they changed “Ogden” to…
UNKNOWN: Provo.
PAUL: Yeah, Provo. Well I happened to be driving down; I live in that general area, I was driving down Wright and I saw this sign up there and I said, “Hey that is not suppose to be there; they have changed the name.” So about two days later, in the newspaper was a little article, written by a guy who was delivering to people who needed to have food; he had a lady that lived on Ogden and he was up there trying to find Ogden, and he could not find Ogden; it was gone. I thought, “Ah hah boy that’s a good one for me; now I will really get down there and get in those guys hair and I did too. What happened was that they did not know that there were a hundred and four streets in this town that were already named and are over fifty years old, but they know now; everybody in the City knows now; I can let you…I have got a ... if I can find it. I have got a copy of “How they were all named”; anyhow, I went down to City Hall; I jumped on the new City Manager the first thing, and so forth. Finally, they decided that what they would do…there is a whole list and every one of those that are listed here; there is a story about them.
PHYLLIS: Oh really.
PAUL: That was written by a guy by the name of “Paul Nissen”; Paul was the Editor of “The Villager” the local newspaper. He wrote this to Colonel Mathias; it listed all of the one hundred and four names; along with it, took from their…there is a history about all the men who served in the Core of Engineers, and have listed what their…or what they did or this kind of.
JOAN: The Museum needs to have that.
TERRY: Yeah, we would love an email.
PAUL: Anyway I gave this to the Clerk; he proceeded to say to his to one of his ladies in the place there, “To go made some copies of this so somebody could have a copy of it. It turns out that everybody in every department in the City of Richland has got a copy of this. (Paul holds up paperwork.) But they did not change it back. The reason that it was even changed was, there was, out in Hills West there was a street out there named “Ogden”; what they wanted to do was they didn’t want to have double names; in one part of town and the other part of town. Which made it difficult for the Police and Fire and so forth; so they changed that one. I told them, hey leave “Ogden” here and change that one over there. They didn’t go for that. Anyway, this is available and if anybody would like to make a copy of it, you are certainly welcome to it.
PHYLLIS: I live on Van Geisen so I am sure that, that is in there.
UNKNOWN: Tell us the story about how Goethals changed to Jadwin; or what?
PAUL: Goethals was changed to Jadwin; why I do not know. I have never been able to have anybody tell me “why”.
UNKNOWN: So there still is a Goethals.
PAUL: Goethals was the second main highway, Main Street in Richland. Up until…
STEVE: Where they did the uptown district, wasn’t it?
PAUL: Yeah, when they came when they were going to build, uh?
UNKNOWN: It was after that.
-
STEVE: Was it after that?
PAUL: But anyway they changed it and changed it to Jadwin. He was one of the engineers, he is written up in here.
PHYLLIS: Kadlec, I wish people would not say “Kad-lack” it is “Kad-lick; it gets me so mad.
UNKNOWN: When did the Mart Drug Store get started?
PAUL: The Mart ah…begs pardon.
STEVE: Well what was the cafeteria?
GROUP: All talking at once and I can not make out what any single person is saying.
PAUL: There was a drugstore on one side and a …
PHYLLIS: And a … (inaudible something dropped and was unable to hear Phyllis’ answer)
PAUL: No, No …
UNKNOWN: A jewelry store…
PAUL: What was his name? That had the jewelry store uptown.
UNKNOWN: Nihart
PAUL: Yeah, Nihart. He had his shop in that and so one night they had a dance in the cafeteria; took all the tables out and so forth; “Jack Teagarden and his Orchestra.”
PHYLLIS: Really? Oh wow.
PAUL: And they played a dance in that building.
STEVE: It was really a pretty large cafeteria. There were serving lines and you would go down the middle; holding a tray.
PHYLLIS: Oh I mean the building.
JOAN: It was open all night.
STEVE: It was open; 24 hours. You would get off swing shift; a bunch of us would gather in there, and carryon. We would be there in the morning when the dayshift came in to go to work.
PAUL: It almost had to be because all these people were working; you know they were working all shifts and they were coming in and going; they needed a place to eat and so forth.
STEVE: The food was not all that great.
PAUL: I’ll agree.
PHYLLIS: You know speaking as briefly as shift workers and the painting. You could have a choice; well the shift workers would chose that really dark green or a dark red. I swear that they must have had black too; because they could sleep during the day. When we got to buy our houses and do our own decorating; that was heck to cover over; because that was (something tone) over. It helped them sleep because it kept the light out.
TERRY: When it came time to buy the house how was the posed pricing set and do you think it was fair?
PHYLLIS: It was very fair, very fair.
GROUP: Whole group agreeing that it was fair.
PAUL: The original price almost had a World War III as a result of it. They finally got them "jewed" down to the fact that they would make them a little better. The fact is; I bought my house and I paid $4750 I think…
STEVE: It went to a tenet.
PAUL: A four bedroom Ranch.
STEVE: We were the junior tenets in the “B” House so we were way down on the (inaudible-list) so that is why we moved to Kennewick.
PHYLLIS: I think we paid about $17000 or something for the “A” House.
MARGARET: At market price.
PAUL: They got in it when they were kids.
PHYLLIS: Well I got a Duplex House. Now they have it at $85000. I have not really done a thing to it.
STEVE: Single people when they came to town had to live in dormitories’. Only a very few, high mucky mucks, single mucky mucks, got houses. There were a few people to finagle some deals. My sister-in-law came here to teach school; she somehow or other, she was a single lady, she somehow or other got a Prefab. I think she was the first tenet in it. She had that Prefab all these years and we inherited it from her. You had to have a roommate; the Housing Office would tell you who your roommate was.
PHYLLIS: Really?
STEVE: Yeah we didn’t get a choice; because I finally managed to get into an apartment and my roommate left; they told me who I had to take in with me.
JOAN: We were in a Prefab and it went up for sale. I think that we were probably just about the last area to be put on the market, so to speak. We got this (holding up a piece of paper) and it was a notice of “Offering of Single Family or a Duplex House for a First Priority Purchase”. Since we were living in the house we got the first priority to purchase this house. It was appraised by the FHA at $3275; this is 3 bedrooms Prefab. The sales price on the property however, was listed at $2783.75; Two thousand seven hundred eighty three dollars and seventy-five cents. Being appraised value left 15% and it went something like if you thought, the City of Richland was really going to go, you took the 15% off, but if you did not think it was going to go then you paid the full price; then you could get the government to buy it back. If you took the percentage off you were stuck with that house see. I think like I said, “One of the last areas to go up for sale”. We knew the house was going to be too small for us; I think by that time we already had a little boy. So we started looking around and found a Ranch House up on Chestnut; we had 93 days by the way to consider this; at the end of the 93 days we put a $100 down I guess we would buy it. Then we put the house up for sell; we advertised it probably in the little “GE Newspaper” and perhaps “The Columbia Basin News” I think the name of the paper at the time.
PAUL: Yelp that’s right.
JOAN: We set for a Friday night at 7 o’clock; well these places were “HOT” (inaudible); all of a sudden traffic you would not believe, cars parked up and down. There they were standing at the door trying to get in. So we opened the door at 7 o’clock and these people went swish and within two or three minutes a guy was back to us and said, “We’ll take it and we’ve got (we were asking $3500 we were going to make a little bit of money) we have $3500 worth of Saving Bonds we are going to cash in and pay cash. Just like that (Joan is snapping her fingers) we sold that house and had a down payment for the Ranch. Well my husband was pretty smart so he figured it out that if we bought the Prefab, sold the Prefab and bought the Ranch all in the same day we would just have one set of closing costs. Then we moved into our “Y” House.
PAUL: We have not talked about the schools. The only building that was available, for the first people who came here was Lewis & Clark and right adjacent to it was the old Richland High School. Which later became the….uh…?
STEVE: The American Legion.
PAUL: Yeah the American Legion occupied it and they ruled it out, and Bonnie moved it out. This lady was talking about (pointing to Margaret) the one out in West Richland…
PHYLLIS: John Ball.
MARGARET: No North Richland.
PAUL: Yes John Ball; sorry it was North Richland. I am sorry. North Richland of course was almost a “Little Hanford”. There were a row of house’s that faced the river; and from there up for about four, I guess about four lanes between that and George Washington Way; were rows of, where the people brought their trailers, so forth, they lived in those trailers. I have it here somewhere here what the number of kids that were in that school... But anyway it does not really matter. When they got ready to leave, just like they did Hanford they just closed down and they moved out. The guy who was the Superintend out there, Ray Lamb, became the principle of Spaulding and that is where all my kids went to school, was at Spaulding. The other day I was going through, I am the worst person for keeping something. I tell you I have enough to write four books; I am thinking about doing that This thing I found is called “The Hanford History Timeline“ and it lists all of the things here that have to do with Hanford period: When they came; When they were done; Who did them, and so forth. I tell you I got involved in that thing and I could not quit; I just had to do it; I just had to redo it all; everything that I knew; when all the reactors were built; when they were operated, when they closed them down, and so forth. When all of the contractors came in, from time to time that would be starting out with DuPont and then with GE and with all those other guys, and so forth. It tells: When the reactor started, stopped and all the other things. In January 10th of “1946” bids were received for dismantling “The Ghost Town of Hanford”. There were a lot of those buildings that were brought in and were out at North Richland. When they brought the Military in they put all those guys out there with their deals to shoot those things up in the air.
PHYLLIS: The missiles?
PAUL: The missiles. Then they needed some more help or some more room so they…from Pasco; from the Naval Depot they put those on barges, and barged them across the river, and they were put out there at Hanford. Just beyond where J. A. Jones shops were. Is there anyone here that remembers about J.A. Jones?
TERRY: You know what, our hour is flying. You know what I would like to do is just open up for a couple of questions, and then we are going to have to wrap-up; it’s already almost 8 o‘clock. Then afterwards I am sure we can spend sometime mingling and chatting. Is there a question over here?
UNKNOWN: To the lady that taught at John Ball School; “About how big was that school; do you think?”
MARGARET: I can’t tell you how many children, but it was made of Quantum’s; they lined they all up sort of each side and ran a hallway down threw the center. When I came they had a section down here and a section over there, and they were putting a big one in the middle then. That was our cafeteria or gym or whatever we didn’t have at the time; also the Library and Principles office. I remember the first day of school; there were so many kids standing at the front door. When we got our students assigned to our rooms we didn’t have even a folding chair for the children to sit on. Immediately we went on shifts; we taught one half in the morning and the other half in the afternoon.
PAUL: Well it was established: February 16, 1948, and it was opened with 136 students. The peak enrollment was 900-2100 students in January of 1949. The school closed June 30, 1955 by the U.S. Army and the first principle was Raymond Lamb.
MARGARET: We had 5 first grades.
PAUL: I don’t know how many of that Quantum’s they put together.
PHYLLIS: They didn’t have kindergarten at that?
MARGARET: Yes we did have kindergarten.
PHYLLIS: Oh you did have kindergarten.
MARGARET: We were still having air raid drills at that time; so the Quantum’s would not be much protection. So we went out between the Quantum’s and the river; they dug a ditch and it must have been; be 12 feet deep and 12 feet wide. When there was an air raid alarm went off; all the kids went out the backdoor and across that sand block playground; then down into that ditch and we would all lay on our stomachs.
PHYLLIS: In the dirt?
MARGARET: Yes in the dirt. I tell you it was not bad getting down, but just try to get all those little first graders back up that hill.
TERRY: Quantum? What is that?
PHYLLIS: Yes they were the round “U” building.
TERRY: Composed of metal?
PAUL: You know the big ones down here at the Cities.
TERRY: Oh at the City shops. Oh, okay.
MARGARET: (Inaudible)
TERRY: They would be awful hot.
MARGARET: (Inaudible). Swamp cooler on the outside
TERRY: Swamp cooler would keep it cool.
STEVE: They have a picture of that back (inaudible).
PHYLLIS: Oh yes we do upstairs.
TERRY: I have never heard that before; I did not know what that was.
MARGARET: When we had a dust storm the custodian waited just before we left…
TAPE ENDS
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00:58:02
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317kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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ABC [Alphabet] Houses Panel
Subject
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Richland (Wash.)
Description
An account of the resource
Oral history about living in Richland, Washington Alphabet houses during the 1940s and 1950s.
Creator
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CREHST Museum
Publisher
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Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
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03/23/1999
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Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project
Language
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English
Identifier
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RG1D-4A / T.2010.052.030
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fc626c342bd8368bbc10c4a6a932acf91.mp4
90d91ae66d1d0e503277adb6c63169f1
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
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Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
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CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
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1999-2013
Rights
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All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
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English.
Identifier
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RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
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Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
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1943-1990
Provenance
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Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
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Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Todd Kenning/Connie Estep
Interviewee
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Viola Magnuson
Transcription
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ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TITLE: INTERVIEW WITH VIOLA MAGNUSON
INTERVIEW DATE: 2001
INTERVIEW LOCATION: UNKNOWN
INTERVIEWER: TODD KENNING/ CONNIE ESTEP
INTERVIEWED: VIOLA MAGNUS0N
TRANSCRIBER: JEFF FORD
LENGTH: 44 MINS
CONNIE; So, What year were you married?
VIOLA: 1930, August 3, 1930. That’s a long time ago, it was before the war. (Responses to looking at a pictures), smiles and says, called the lady with a horse. Laughs again and says, Oh, I have a lot of memories. That was Ray and me and Suzy and Ray’s parents.
TODD: Do you have a picture of Suzy, singing?
VIOLA: Yea, this was taken while Ray was in Panama.
V IOLA: It was 25 below zero.
CONNIE: Oh, to get you guys and drive you out?
VIOLA: That was in the Hanford News. Ray and I and Suzy, that was Greggs.
CONNIE: (Reaching for the pictures) How about if I take these.
VIOLA: Kennewick.
CONNIE: Oh, that was Kennewick; you had already just left Hanford. Right around that time?
VIOLA: That’s when we went to the B house, on 1425 Mc Phearson, Mc Phearson. That’s where our hall, Hoover roses, he had put a little picket fence, oh I had flowers all over. And you should see Suzy with her doll.
CONNIE: Oh, yeah.
VIOLA: And her pearls, she was just so pretty.
CONNIE: Oh yeah, aren’t they gorgeous, those are some roses.
VIOLA: Oh, That’s my father-in-law and mother-in-law, a very wonderful cook, believe me. She was, he was a carpenter, he could climb a tree, so he could go hunting anytime he wanted to, an our trailer was long there was a bed at one end and then the dinette table, Ray and I slept, we had to put down the table on the two settees, then we put the cushions on top of that and that’s where Ray and I slept on and Suzy and Joanie slept on the bed at one end, so we didn’t have to make the bed for them but, for us we had to put down the table
CONNIE: And you had no, did you have a sink?
VIOLA: What?
CONNIE: Did you have a sink, you didn’t have any water in the trailer, you had to carry the water in?
VIOLA: Yes, finally we did, Ray had a friend that was a plumber and he put a line from where it started. See each trailer had one like that, no not each trailer, say four families would use it and the other ladies got jealous what do you have to do to get your, and she looked at me, well I don’t know Ray did it. (Laughing she said, "What do you have to do, to get water in your trailer.")
CONNIE: So and then you used the bathhouse for your bathroom?
VIOLA: Uh huh, we had to go… see there was a bathhouse, well there was a bathhouse not as far as here to that neighbor, but half that way.
CONNIE: For how many trailers, maybe?
VIOLA: Oh, quite a few, because it was a big bathhouse, a lot of stalls for the showers and a lot of sinks to wash-up.
CONNIE: Sinks to wash your dishes in?
VIOLA: Oh no, we had to wash our dishes in our trailers.
CONNIE: Oh.
VIOLA: I had a little sink, I washed my dishes there. No the bathhouses were just to keep clean, wash your hair, take a shower.
CONNIE: And they had hot water?
VIOLA: Oh yeah, we had plenty of hot water and they had the soap there too. And there was ladies that would come every day, every morning and clean that bathhouse, every day without fail; everything was spic-n-span. Yeah, they took good care of us.
CONNIE: Well that’s good,
VIOLA: And even have shows, for the entertainment at night, they had a big, oh, well… they had shows on Saturday and on Sunday’s we had church in that building. But they tried everything to keep the people there
CONNIE: And the fences, people put up their own fences, when they got there?
VIOLA: Ah huh, Ray put up, got some pickets and put it around our lot. But they didn’t stop Suzy from getting out, that’s the reason he had me to, but she‘d climb that picket fence. And I kept little “farmerette’s” on her, I didn’t put her in dresses, because there was too much sand and, she’d climb that fence and when she’d come down she’d get caught on her seat and tear her pants. She’d run to the neighbors, Mrs. Fitz, she was crazy about a lady there, because she made such a fuss over her, and her name was Mrs. Fritz and she called her Mrs. Fitz. Remember that Suzy?
SUZY: No
VIOLA: Boy you liked her and she liked you.
CONNIE: Now when did you move, when did you get to Hanford with your trailer?
VIOLA: On September the 17th.
CONNIE: 1944?
VIOLA: Ah huh, 1943.
CONNIE: And that’s when you got to Hanford with your trailer?
VIOLA: Ah huh
CONNIE: And how big was your trailer?
VIOLA: 16 footer on the outside, that was with the trailer hitch, you didn’t see how little it was inside but, 14 feet, we stayed in that for18 months, then we had to move. When he was, when we were at Hanford, Ray was on construction and before we could get a house, he had to be on office construction. So then it was in August when we came back from Kennewick.
CONNIE: Did they have to do clearance, is that why he had to leave? So, he finished construction?
VIOLA: Everybody had to move out of that…
CONNIE; And you said you had to leave your trailer there?
VIOLA: No, we had to move it, but we had to put it in a fenced yard, all trailers were there, but it didn’t stop people from snitching, because they took my little sink, my little Monroe sink out of my trailer, while it was in that building.
CONNIE: So they had them in a storage yard, everybody stored them there?
VIOLA: There was a tall fence around it, we had to go to the guards to get a permit when we wanted to go get something from our trailer, but somebody came in ours…
CONNIE: And how long was your trailer in the storage area before you could get it back?
VIOLA: We could, well when we moved from there to Richland, we could… we got it.
CONNIE: So it was a few months?
VIOLA: Yeah, but it was long enough, cause Ray had a lot things, he had bought extra tires, a lot of tools. Oh boy, it took us 13 days to come from Hanford, no from Richland, no from Shaeffer, to Hanford because we could just make a few miles a day, because the trailer was so full. I had a lot of canned stuff. I canned raspberries, and made jam, gooseberry jam and all that stuff from the country and I had that under the settees, that was too heavy.
CONNIE: 13 days was from Missouri…, Michigan?
VIOLA: Ah huh, could just do about 100 miles a day.
\CONNIE: And was that driving that Model A, Ford?
VIOLA: No, it was a Chevrolet, an old second-hand Chevrolet, but you couldn’t get new cars then, but it was pretty good, but it was jammed.
CONNIE: Was it over-heating…. Was the car over-heating?
VIOLA: Oh yes, in Montana we had to stop, we kept rocks in the car, I had at run out and put the rocks behind the wheel because the car was too heavy, because it would keep on backing up, it was by Helena, you know it was too steep and that was my job. We had pictures in Montana; you didn’t see those, did you.
CONNIE: I didn’t look through all of them, I didn’t have the time.
VIOLA: I know Suzy got scared from a snake, up one of those hills. She was just so scared, she couldn’t move. She saw a snake, I didn’t see it because I wasn’t with Suzy and she was walking with Ray, she was so scared. I know I would be scared, too.
CONNIE: Then after your husband got the security clearance, you moved back to Richland?
VIOLA: Yeah, we got a pre-fab and we lived there for 5 years, until we moved into our B house on May 9, 1950.
CONNIE: Did you sell your trailer then?
VIOLA: Ray made a, he just took the wheels and axle and he made a bigger trailer, cause we bought some land across the river, it was those lots… it was lot 16 was our trailer. Yeah he farmed, planted wheat and alfalfa, that’s what we raised.
CONNIE: And that’s while he was working at Hanford, he was farming while he was working at Hanford?
VIOLA: No, after we moved into the pre-fab, we bought that.
CONNIE: But he was still working out on the site, too.
VIOLA: Yeah and I would go and move the pipes with him. We’d take each end of the pipes, because we had to irrigate. Everday, I don’t know how he did it, work and when he was on swing, he just worked the two shifts, days and swing. But, when he was on swing, we’d go early in the morning; he had to be at work by 3 o’clock.
CONNIE: What did he do, do you know?
VIOLA: He was a glazer, he cut glass for the buses and for the cars, company cars and he was a mechanic, so he was doing two things, so he was busy.
CONNIE; Can you tell me a little about the bathhouse, do you remember how many shower stalls were in those?
VIOLA: Oh, they must have had 6 or 7, because they were a big bathhouse, there was one at each end of our, where the people lived, so they’d come this way and they’d come this way.
CONNIE: Then you had a whole line-up of bathroom sinks?
VIOLA: Well ladies do that, we didn’t have to bother with that, but before they had those bathhouses, they had in the temporary camp, when we first got there, we didn’t have bathhouses. We had to wash up in ours trailers, because all that they had there, toilets with long buildings, with a lot of holes just no….
CONNIE: Outhouses?
VIOLA: No, no bathhouses and colored guys would come and clean those, take those tins that were under those toilets holes and they’d take those out and dump that. I don’t know where they went and dumped it, but I was always scared that they’d be there, that they’d come while I was in there, but that wasn’t very long. The temporary camp wasn’t very long, while they built the bathhouses, when we had the bathhouses that was nice. (I’ll bet) But we had to stay in our trailer then, too, so we were a couple of months in.
CONNIE: When you were out at the trailer camp, did they have buses to take you into town, during the day, if you wanted to go shopping and take the kids in?
VIOLA: Yeah, but I never did, I never took those buses, but when we were in the pre-fab the bus would come right on the corner from in front of the house, from our house. But I never did, because if I wanted the car, Ray would leave the car for me and I could go to the grocery store and on week-ends we would go to Yakima, just go there to shop because there was nothing in Rich… at Hanford for clothing or anything like that. There was a grocery store and you had to wait in line for that and that’s when we had those stamps, you were not old enough for that to remember.
CONNIE: The ration stamps.
VIOLA: Yeah, we had those books of stamps, each one in the family had those books of stamps, even Suzy.
CONNIE: In the photo they show that they put roofs over those trailers.
VIOLA: Yes, they did because it got so hot.
CONNIE: How long did it take them to put the roofs over, do you remember?
VIOLA: Shortly, after we were there, they put a roof over the trailer, it didn’t touch the trailer.
CONNIE: Do you know what that roof was made of, were they metal or wood?
VIOLA: I imagine it was plywood and some kind of roofing or something I wouldn’t know, 'cause I didn’t climb up there.
CONNIE: Did you watch them build those roofs?
VIOLA No, no I didn’t because I was busy. Joanie would go to school, see she was 9 years old and she’d do to school early in the morning and she’d be home by noon, so that worked alright for me 'cause she’d watch her while I went to the store. I wasn’t too far from the store, I’d go kiddy-corner of lots and everything. And one time I got… there was a big dog and I didn’t see him and I was close to that yard and he caught my arm, a my coat, jumped at me and tore my coat. Boy he scared me to death.
CONNIE: They didn’t have any rules about not having dogs there, you could have dogs in the trailer camp?
VIOLA; Yeah but, he was chained, fortunately, but he could just reach me. I was close to the fence that there by him and I didn’t know the dog was there, he didn’t bark or nothing. He just pounced on me.
CONNIE: Did you guys have a dog?
VIOLA: No, we had a dog back home in Schaeffer, but we didn’t take it with us. Ray left it with a friend, 'cause we couldn’t have that. We were crowded enough in the trailer. And we lived there, let’s see….Ray was 18 months in Panama, but we lived I the… we wintered in our trailer over Christmas. I know, 'cause we had our tree outside on top of an oil barrel.
CONNIE: The Christmas tree outside?
VIOLA: Yeah, it was windy, it was pretty good our bulbs stayed on the tree. I still have some of those bulbs, clear glass, they weren’t very fancy. My trimmings were back in Michigan, never dreamed of taking them with me. So we had to buy what we could, you could look at our tree through the window.
TODD: It was pretty tough livin there in the trailer park. Did you ever think about leaving… did you ever think about just packing up and leaving, out of there?
VIOLA: Well when you have to, you have to and Maury didn’t want to come back to Richland, because he didn’t like the food in the boarding house. So, he had me, we got it and I cooked on a little two-burner hot plate. I had an old kerosene stove, but the darn thing would catch on fire. I was afraid I would burn the trailer., so there was a man next door and he had an extra hot-plate, so I cooked on a 2 burner hot-plate, electric so that was a lot better. We managed.
TODD: Did you ever think about just packing up and leaving Hanford?, going back, going back to Michigan, did you ever think about just…
VIOLA: No.
TODD: Wasn’t the dust pretty bad?,
VIOLA: No, I had my two kids and I never dreamed of leaving my husband.
TODD: Oh no, I mean the whole family leaving.
VIOLA: Oh, well it was Ray’s work. I had to let him do what he wanted, because he was earning a living, so I just went along with him and I know she liked it there, because she was everybody’s pet.
TODD: Yeah, she told me one story about singing.
VIOLA: She was friends with everybody.
TODD: Was the dust pretty bad there?
VIOLA: Oh honestly, if you’d go to the store or some place and leave your windows open, you’d come back and it was just like the sand drifted in the hills like. Finally, I had to get a vacuum cleaner, one of those hand ones, so I could get the sand out of the windows and all over.
CONNIE: Well a lot of people decided enough sand is enough and just packed those trailers and went home.
VIOLA: I know but we stuck it.
TODD: Did you see many people leave?
VIOLA: No, I was too busy. I saw quite a few big trailers leave, but my neighbors stuck too. There was a young women, that lived next door to us, she had a homemade trailer. Not that they built, but they bought and they had three little girls, one right after the other and they stayed in that little trailer and they didn’t, we got a Buns burner for heat and they bought our little, …that trailer we bought , that we lived in had a kind of a little, it was a cute little stove, but you had to use wood and at night it would be cold, so Ray got an oil burner and that would keep us warm all night. We didn’t have to fill it every day. I think it held 5 gallons.
TODD: Is that what’s out in the garage?
VIOLA: Uh huh.
TODD: It’s out in the garage.
VIOLA: It was a nice one, we bought it from…, the man next door he knew where to…, we wouldn’t have known where to get it, but he was from Seattle and he said we could get one of those oil burners from Seattle and a big truck brought it in no time to our trailer and that just worked fine.
CONNIE; I”LL bet that was nice.
VIOLA: Oh, but I did like the little, because it was so cute but the wood wouldn’t last no time. And you couldn’t get it was, it would burn so fast. But that,.. She, that girl with the three little girls, she used it and she cooked on that stove, so she was worse off than me. My kids were older anyway and I had a two-burner hot plate.
TODD: When did you realize what kind of work was going on at Hanford?
VIOLA: Well we really didn’t know, but everybody was saying we were making toilet paper. (laughter) Kids after school, the teacher was talking about, she says I know, they make toilet paper, because her father would bring toilet paper in his dinner bucket.
TODD: (More laughter) have you heard that before, Connie?
CONNIE; No, hadn’t heard that one.
VIOLA: No, nobody knew.
TODD; Did your husband have any idea of what was going on?
VIOLA: If he did, he never mentioned it. No, they were told to keep their mouths shut. But it was really when Truman said, he decided to use the atomic bomb on Japan. That was pretty good, then the war ended. But why did they, Pearl Harbor, they came and bombed Pearl Harbor, the Japanese, why did they do that?, they snuck there. Oh boy lots happened we didn’t know. When we lived in the trailer, you don’t remember that?
TODD: No, I don’t remember coming out here, living at Hanford.
VIOLA: Well I know you didn’t like to be in the trailer, you went wild when we’d go the store. You didn’t care if you could see us or not. I even got a little harness to put around her, so she wouldn’t run away. She just threw herself on the floor and she wouldn’t walk. So I, it didn’t help, so I had to carry her. (laughter) She had a mind of her own.
CONNIE: The second kid always does.
VIOLA: It was an experience, but I was glad to get in the pre-fab. ,,,,, And I made some pretty curtains, I had gone to Walla Walla and got some nice drapes to make, 'cause we had those big windows…four windows in the front and the side windows, those short windows, so I made, I made the curtains and they were so pretty. Did you find them in the basement?
SUZY: I think I have the drapes downstairs.
VIOLA: They were there, weren’t they?
TODD: Kind of blue and pink.
VIOLA: Big flowers, really pretty, lovely material. I bought 10 yards of material to make that.
CONNIE: I’m surprised that there not so faded that you couldn’t tell if they were.
VIOLA: They were heavy, so I didn’t have any shade or anything like that, but I could close those drapes. We had privacy and they looked so pretty. Everybody who came, look so cozy.
C ONNIE: You must have felt like you had a mansion after living in a tiny trailer and moving into the two bedroom pre-fab.
VIOLA: The pre-fab was two bedrooms, bedroom for the girls and a bedroom for us. We had twin beds in our bedroom and we just slept in one bed. One twin bed and the other was a spare. Ray was small and I was small. But their was a full size bed where the girls were sleeping, so they had a full size bed, in their bedroom and a closet. I had to put a drape, a curtain in their closet because there were no doors in the closets. But when we got to the B house, there were nice closets. (looking at some old drapes) See that’s heavy material. I don’t know they used to be brighter, the background used to be more tan.
TODD: So those are over 50 years old then, aren’t they?
VIOLA: Yeah, over that.
CONNIE: I’m amazed, you had these up more than 5 years in the pre-fab?, you had these up for 5 years and they aren’t more rotted than that.
VIOLA: And I had never made curtains before.
CONNIE: And did you put these up in the B house also, (huh), did you put these up in the B house anywhere?
VIOLA: No, I had shades for the B house and curtains, drapes. Do you think the material was nice?
CONNIE: Yeah, I’m looking and if it’s not rotted, no.
VIOLA: And you couldn’t see through, you had privacy. Well I used those 5 years, 'cause till I got these, I had sheets in the window, I put sheets. ….
Milk, stand in your line for your vegetables, so you had to stand in line a lot. I’d put Suzy to bed
CONNIE: But the post office was the worst one.
VIOLA: I’d leave right after Joanie would come home, I’d put Suzy to bed or sometimes I’d put her before she came from school and she’d stay while she’d sleep and I’d come home sometimes after Ray came home, from work. That’s how long it would take for standing in line. But, I had the groceries.
TODD: What time did Ray get home from work?
VIOLA: I must have been after 6.
TODD: So, you’d stand in line for more than 6 hours…,sometimes?
VIOLA: Just about, 'cause I’d leave as soon as Suzy, eh Joanie would come home. See she went to school just a half a day, she came home at noon.
CONNIE: Why was the post office line so bad to wait in?
VIOLA: I don’t know, but the M and N was the longest line, sometimes you didn’t know where it started. No…. and sometime I had, like Ray, he needed a tool, he’d order it and then when it would come I’d have to go to the post office and pay for it before we could get it. I remember it was just a little thing like this, but he needed that little tool So I went, it know it was 5 dollars for that little tool, I don’t know what it was for, but I had to wait in line for that tool. So I had to have a lot of patience.
TODD: Oh boy, that’s a lot of waiting in line, people don’t like to wait in line for 2 minutes in a grocery store now, they get upset if they have to wait.
VIOLA: Yeah but I knew I had to.
TODD: You didn’t have any choice.
VIOLA: No and Ray needed that tool, he wouldn’t ordered it, if he didn’t need it.
CONNIE: Suzy said they would inspect the cars when you would leave.
VIOLA: Every time went, we wanted to go to Kennewick or Pasco, they’d have examined everything and when we’d come back, the same thing.
CONNIE: So they’d open the trunk?
VIOLA: Oh, yes.
CONNIE: Did you have to get out of the car while they looked in it?
VIOLA: Uhuh, yeah they examined everything. And every time say we wanted to go to White Bluffs to go the ice cream parlor, they had a ice cream parlor, and on Sunday’s we liked to go there and she liked her milk shakes. I know she always did and I did too, we all did. It was a place to enjoy. And we had to have a permit for that, to go to White Bluffs.
CONNIE: So, did they keep that ice cream store in White Bluffs, after you were in the pre-fab?
VIOLA: Let’s see, for a while, we used to like to go there, but then we didn’t have to have a permit, see we weren’t at Hanford any more, we were in a pre-fab. No I don’t think we, I think they moved away. I don’t think we went there after we moved in our pre-fab. But while we were at Hanford in our trailer that was our, we looked forward to that, every Sunday we looked forward to that. Yup, that was a treat.
Duration
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00:40:27
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317kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Viola Magnuson Oral History
Subject
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Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Viola Magnuson about relocating to Hanford in 1943 and living in a trailer in the Hanford Construction Camp trailer camp.
Creator
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CREHST Museum
Publisher
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Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
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2001
Rights
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Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project
Language
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English
Identifier
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RG2D-4A / T.2010.052.02
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https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F264f4afd180ffad33d2f2983cea76f78.mp4
3614ee660b3a44a58745ce0b46f887a3
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Todd Kenning and Connie Estep
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Marie White (Hansen)
Location
The location of the interview
CREHST Museum
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TITLE: INTERVIEW WITH MARIE HANSON
INTERVIEW DATE: 2001
INTERVIEW LOCATION: CRESHT MUSEUM
INTERVIEWER: TODD KENNING/CONNIE ESTEP
INTERVIEWED: MARIE HANSON
TRANSCRIBER: JEFF FORD
LENGTH: 26 MINS
CONNIE: The government came in and offered how much money again?
MARIE: My dad, $1700 dollars.
CONNIE: For how many acres?
MARIE: 17 Acres and a two bedroom house, well, barn and the whole works. I had 10 acres, nothing on it but irrigation water and they gave me a thousand.
TODD: Wow, that wasn’t very much for those days.
MARIE: It wasn’t nothing, they were paying us at pre-war prices and we had to go out and buy at wartime prices, they weren’t taking that into consideration, at all.
CONNIE: And grandpa used that money and bought property in Kennewick?
MARIE: He bought 5 acres in Kennewick for a thousand dollars and didn’t have a thing on it, not even irrigation that you could use; you had to change the pipes and everything.
TODD: There wasn’t a house on it?
MARIE No, no house, no nothing.
TODD: Where did you live then?
MARIE: Well we got an extension out here and we stayed in our own house, until he could get one built down there, but like I say, he went right to work here, so he only had weekends down there on the house, him and one of our neighbors. Our neighbor was a carpenter, so he and my dad built it.
CONNIE: And why did he decide to work at Hanford?
MARIE: Because he was going to get everything back he could after taking his home away from him.
CONNIE: And then every year the government came around and offered him a check?
MARIE: Offered him $1700 I don’t know how many times and he said if Uncle Sam’s that bad off, take it and give it to him. Then they finally offered him $3,000 and dad said well Uncle Sam must be doing better, I’ll take it.
CONNIE: So, he finally decided he’d go ahead and take them up on their offer.
MARIE: He decided he’d better take it.
TODD: Is the house and the land still in the family
MARIE: No, it’s all torn down out there
CONNIE: In Kennewick, though grandma still lives in one?
MARIE: No, my parents have passed away
TODD: The house still there?
MARIE: Oh, yeah. I rented it for a long, long time and then I sold it. My health got bad and I couldn’t put up with renters anymore.
CONNIE: It’s on Rainier Street in Kennewick
MARIE: Yeah
TODD: Do you go by every once in a while?
PERSON IN BACKGROUND: Oh yeah I think we’ve all lived there once.
CONNIE: Now over here where the butcher store used to be, you were telling us a story about the butcher store.
MARIE: That’s where they built the cold storage, they all, everybody went together and they put in money and built the cold storage. And there was a deaf man, a deaf-mute and he was in there one day when Mr. Grass, the butcher was going to lock up and he hollered of course to see if there was anybody in there but, the deaf man couldn’t hear it, so he got locked in there. He made all kinds of noise he could and beat on things and in the night I don’t know just when, somebody heard a noise in there and listened to it and decided there was somebody in there so he went down to Mr. Grass’s house and got him to come up and unlock it and sure enough, there was that man. He bowed and scraped and did everything he could to thank him.. He packed meat, Grass had meat in there curing, halves and quarters the deaf man moved the meat from one side to the other to keep warm, to keep from freezing to death. He knew to do that, quite an ordeal for him.
CONNIE: Now you told me the community went together, on the ice house, how did it come to be?
MARIE: Well everybody had a locker in there you know, I don’t know how the government handled that in the end. I don’t remember hearing anything about that.
CONNIE: Before that there were spots out on the river?
MARIE: Well that was the personal ones; the Hubbard family had a house, an ice room. They made double walls and filled them with saw dust and in the winter time they cut ice off the river. I remember great big blocks of ice, they cut or sawed the ice off, then all went together and everybody had ice in the summer time; not a whole lot, but a treat, it was a treat, we could make ice cream or something like that.
CONNIE: And did you guys go in there and play?
MARIE: Yeah
CONNIE: Were you suppose to?
MARIE: Kids weren’t supposed to, but we snuck away every once and a while and got in there and played and in that sawdust and reach down in that sawdust and find a hunk of ice and rub our hands on it. It was nice and cool in there. It was a no-no.
TODD: That was a no- no.
MARIE I don’t know if that should go on tape or not.
TODD: You go ahead
MARIE: Well, I was working the parcel post window and the lobby was full of people, standing in line you know. And here come a woman with a whole bunch of packages went around that line and plunked her packages up on my counter. I said lady the line forms back there, she said you will wait on me. I said lady the line forms back there. She said I’m Mrs. Col. Mathias and you will wait on me. I said I don’t care who you are, the line forms back there and that’s where you’re going to go. She said you’re just as servant of the public and she said you will wait on me. I said, no I won’t, I left the room and got Mr. Pettycord. I told him what was going on and I said you can fire me, but I’m not going to wait on that woman. He came out there and of course he worked her packages, but he told her, don’t ever come in here again and cause trouble with my girls. I’m having a hard enough time running this post office with the help I can get and I don’t want anybody belittling them.
TODD: Did she ever do that again?
MARIE: I never saw her. I told her I’ve never seen your name on my paycheck yet. Well you’re just a public servant, she said. Regardless, the line forms back there. I don’t know if you want to put that in there or not.
TODD: Oh, that’s great; she was the wife of a pretty important person.
MARIE: Yes she was, to me she was another customer and I kept saying, the line forms back there, those people were on their lunch hour, most of them, you know, hurried down to the post office to take care of business and then someone pull something like that, it wasn’t right.
CONNIE: You worked at the irrigation district too, didn’t you?
MARIE: I was working at the irrigation district over here where the art gallery is. Ed Pettycord would walk down the hill everyday and say, Marie you’ve got to come help us, we need help real badly. I said, I’ve got a job here Ed. Ed said but your not busy now, all the irrigation property is gone. He said, come and help us and Mr. Fletcher tried to talk me into staying at the irrigation office. Ed’s pulling me to the post office. I finally felt guilty, I wasn’t working, and I was working just part time at the irrigation office, so I went up to the post office. I got full time and a half.
CONNIE: Never got paid for full time?
MARIE: Never got paid for full time, no. Course those people working at the post office were just filling in between shifts or something or on their day off. They got paid for every hour they put in. But us that were permanent put in our 60 hours and got paid for 40.
GRANDDAUGHTER: Okay grandma tell us about Grandpa Hanson, how long it would take him to get to town to get groceries and what you and Auntie Pauline used to live for.
MARIE: Well we were 5 miles out of town, the transportation we had was a horse and wagon. My dad would leave in the early morning, my mom would give him a list a mile long to fill and we would always put candy on there. Every once and a while, he’d forget the candy of course. But mother would make us a batch of divinity, bless her heart. But anyway it would take him from early morning until dark you know, because he wouldn’t hurry the horses, my dad was real good to animals, he wouldn’t hurry the horses, so it took him all day long to drive down and get groceries and come back with our candy. My mother would make us divinity, she, an old hand egg beater to beat those eggs and I look back and think; how in the world did she do it.
GRANDDAUGHTER: How old were you when Grandpa Hanson worked for Carton Meat Packing Co?
MARIE: I was 3 years old when we came here and he was working for Carston.
GRANDDAUGHTER: And what was he doing, helping him….?
MARIE: They were running sheep here. They’d bring them down here to pasture in the winter time and lambing and shearing in the spring. He worked for him for a long time, before we moved on to the farm
TODD: Did you know any of the Rosecrans family?
MARIE: I know the name, but don’t know him.
GRANDDAUGHTER: The changes you’ve seen over time, just in Kennewick, from the festivals that used to take place and the houses, you know you told me a story about the people that lived in that house on the corner of Rainier and Kennewick Ave., how far out it was perceived to be from downtown Kennewick
MARIE: Oh yeah we were way out in the country when we moved out there on Rainier and 4th Ave. and there was hardly anything between us and town and nothing the other way that would amount to anything, just a couple of farms. My first address there was Route 2 and then they changed it to Larch St., then it finally became 4th Ave., but it was way out in the country when we moved out there. There were no houses between the house I’m living in and the one the folks had built on Rainier. I’m around the corner from them and there was no houses between us, that’s all built up and ah my dad sold his 5 acres in lots. He had it plotted and sold all but he kept 2 lots, that the house was on., platted the rest of it and sold them off in lots. In fact he sold it to man who couldn’t buy the lots. My dad would give a deed to one lot and he’d build a house and sell it and he’d pay my dad off. My dad would give him a deed to another lot and he’d build a house, he built duplexes is what he did and rented them all out.
GRANDDAUGHTER: Are those the houses behind grandma and grandpas house?
MARIE: Yeah, all those duplexes in there were all grandpa’s land.
GRANDAUGHTER: So, what did you do for fun back then grandma, did you go dancing?
MARIE: I went dancing.
GRNADDDAUGHTER: Where’d you go dancing?
MARIE: Even when I worked 60 hours at the post office, I went dancing on Saturday night. I told my mother that’s the one night I’m going to have for me, Saturday night I’m going to go dancing. I got home about 4 in the morning got up and went to Sunday school and church and then I went out to the post office an awful lot of Sunday’s and worked 2 or 3 hours out there to catch up on stuff I was behind on. I did all the book work in the post office, payroll and all that stuff. I went up on Sunday’s a lot times..
TODD: Back to the dancing, where did you go dancing?
MARIE: Do you know where Mr. E is now, up on Union and 4th Ave?, there is triangular piece of land there, what did they call it, the Highland Country Club or something, built a club house there and they had dances.
TODD: And you’d dance all night long?
MARIE: As long as they’d play. I danced every dance too, I’ll have you know and I went home by myself. Oh my golly, I used to drive from North Richland clear down there by myself on Saturday night. One night somebody watched me get in my car and followed me, scared the jiminy out of me, they followed me out, there was quite a few houses built in here by that time, drove around and around those houses thinking I’d lose them but, I couldn’t lose them. I didn’t know a soul that lived in any of them. I was tempted to stop and knock on a door on one that had lights but I thought I hate to do that too. So I finally struck out the bypass highway toward home. I’d speed up and they’d speed up. I’d slow down and they’d slow down, they never tried to pass me or anything that is what I expected, that they’d try to run me off the road and finally I came to the road that turns up to where the Fletchers used to live, Mr. Fletcher was the one I used to work for in the irrigation district and I swung into their place and the car went on by. I sat there for quite a little bit, I knew if Mr. Fletcher came out to investigate he’d be glad I did it. I came back out and got on the bypass highway and went on home I never ever told anybody that happened to me or my folks would have put their foot down boy, they wouldn’t have let me go…..
TODD: Did you go dancing the next Saturday night though?
Marie: Oh yeah, it didn’t stop me. I was pretty scared though.
TODD: But not scared enough to stop dancing?
MARIE: No that was the only pleasure I had those days was that Saturday night dance, ‘cause work 10 hours a day you don’t feel like going out until Saturday night, you can dance, you hear the music and you can dance.
GRANDDAUGHTER: Although you’ve been married a time or two, grandma.
MARIE: I don’t think they want to know about that.
GRANDDAUGHTER: No, you were mostly a single mom, raising two children.
MARIE: Yes that’s right. I buried two husbands and I divorced two and I made an annulment on one.
TODD: Do you remember the big flood in ‘48?
MARIE: Yeah
TODD: Were you living in Kennewick then?
MARIE: Yeah, I was living in Kennewick, but I was working out at the post office 10 hours a day. I didn’t have time to look and see what was going on, but I remember it was real bad.
TODD: You worked in the post office in North Richland?
MARIE: No, right here in town, we were in this building up on Lee and a, I don’t remember what’s in there now.
GRANDDAUGHTER: It’s an attorney, part of the bank building.
MARIE: People began to flock in here then they built a bigger building on 9th Street and that’s where we worked from there.
CONNIE: Wasn’t there a drug store with a soda fountain or a lunch counter, tell me about that again, who had it?
MARIE: Can’t even think of name of it now, can you?
CONNIE: That was kind of the place where everybody went, wasn’t it?
MARIE: Yeah, that was about the only place to get something to eat, outside of your own home, that little drug store and fountain.
CONNIE: And the strawberry festival and grape festival, those were big events?
MARIE: Yeah, they were the main attraction before the fair built up; you know the county fair built up…. I’ve seen a lot of changes, since 1918. Sit there and talk for hours, didn’t we, telling her about all the things that took place in my life.
GRANDDAUGHTER: I would like you to tell the story about when, how you got to go over to business school and all the time you spent working and going to school.
MARIE; Well, my husband died when I was 24 years old, my son was 18 months, no education, no nothing and they hired women in the schools to cook, you know lunches for the kids. I went to the County Commissioner to see if I could get on cooking. I tried to farm, but I raised strawberries, picked two days on them and the crop was gone, no more markets. Everything I tried went that way, so I tried getting on there cooking and Jay Perry was Commissioner at that time and he said Marie you don’t want to be a cook in your life. How about going to Business College or beauty school or something, he said we can help you a little bit. So they gave me $15 a month, for tuition, room and board for me and my son and books, that is what I got. I went to school in Longview and my sister lived in Castle Rock and she took care of my son for me. I gave her $10 dollars a month for board and room, but of course she was pregnant with her first child, so I was doing all the house work, the washing, the ironing and everything and going to school. I worked at the school, worked for my tuition and made it in 6 months. Mr. Fletcher went to my folks and said is Marie ready to go to work because; I’m going to need a secretary in the office. My mother said I think she is. My mother called me right away, so I came home and went right to work for the irrigation office but, it was only part time, but it was, I think they gave me $50 a month, which looked like a million to me at the time. I worked part time until like I said until I went to work for Ed at the post office.
GRANDDAUGHTER: Your farming endeavors weren’t all bad, because you had a pretty good mint crop one year.
MARIE: Yeah, the year I went to Business College in Longview, I had planted; I forget what it was an acre or two of peppermint. I tried to weed it and keep it clean and do other things too and I, the weeds got pretty high on it, but I went over there and worked and pulled some weeds and there was a whole bunch of good peppermint down amongst those weeds. My dad didn’t believe it. I irrigated it and took care of it. My dad said you can’t get anybody to process it with all those weeds. I said there’s a lot of peppermint there I don’t care; there’s a lot of peppermint in there. So, my dad went and talked to his neighbor who had a still or what ever you call it to process the peppermint, get the oil out of it. He came over and looked and said there’s not much oil in there, it’s mostly weeds in there, I’ll have to charge you by the wagon load, he said I can’t charge you by the pound like I do everybody else, pound of mint oil. So he charged me by the wagon load. He started running it and the oil just poured out of it. I got $400, almost $500 out of my mint oil that fall, that was a God send I’ll tell you. But that was the end of my experience with peppermint or anything else. The government took it after that, that was in ‘41 and in ‘42 we got our notices to be out in 30 days, so that was the end of my farming. And then I went to work in the insurance business. I knew the lady that was working for Mr. Campbell at Farmer‘s Insurance. She called me at 10 o’clock one night, she said Marie I need help awful bad, can you come down and help me for a week or two. I said, well I won’t work 8 hours but I’ll work 7, cause Amber’s mother was a baby then. So, I went down and helped her and It turned into a full time job and finally I worked 16 years as a secretary for the agents and I got my own license, then I was an insurance agent for 16 years when I retired.
CONNIE: What year did you start helping her out?
MARIE: ’56, no ’52 I believe it was.
CONNIE: So you worked at the KID, then you worked at the post office, then you worked where?
MARIE: Farmer’s Insurance
CONNIE: Then where?
MARIE: Well, I worked for Judge Winkenorder, that Kennewick kangaroo court, we used to call it. He called me one night and said he needed a secretary, could I work part time? I said sure. My mother took care of Amber’s mother and I worked for him 2 or 3 years and then Judge Mooreback, you’ve heard of him?, he’s still around.
TODD: No
MARIE: He a, cause Judge Winkenorder had already quit and Mooreback took over. He started laying down the law to me, told me I couldn’t do this and I couldn’t do that and I run out of stamps, I’d have to go take my money and buy stamps and ask him for my money back, it went on like this. One day I forget now what he did, but he did something that didn’t set with me and I just picked up my purse and things and said I’m through. He said you can’t quit I’m going to put you to work in my office all day long. I said oh no your not. He said well you can’t quit. I said just watch me big boy. I said I can quit any time I feel like it and I feel like it right now
GRANDAUGHTER: Why’d they call it kangaroo court?
MARIE; because that’s what it was
TODD: That’s funny, that’s a new one.
MARIE: You didn’t know I worked for Judge Winkenorder, oh yes I used to go out with him when he’d perform marriages and take notes, brides dresses and stuff you know. Oh yeah, that was fun. Well I think they’re getting a lot of stuff they’re not interested in.
The End
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:25:53
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
317kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Marie Hansen (White) Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Description
An account of the resource
From information sheet packaged with oral history: "Born 1914 Marie Hansen, father Peter O. Hanses. Moved to North Richland in 1918.
She told a couple stories after you left, Todd. Once concerned her father's payment from the condemnation. She mentioned he received $1700 for 17 aces. Then the feds came around each year for several years with more money. Once or twice they brought checks for $1700 again and her father told them to send the money back the feds needed it worse than he did. The last time they came they brought a check for around $3000. Her father said the feds must be doing better and he kept that check!
She also told a story about a deaf man getting locked into a cold storage building because he couldn't hear the owner calling out that he was locking up."
Marie White (Hansen) is interviewed about her childhood in Richland, before it was taken as part of the Hanford Site.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1/20/2000
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2D-4A / T.2010.052.03
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F0b065cfc3e4a2da9bb08d783a6d1d2e0.mp4
702c9f467a6277c1336d3c0af2daa4d4
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:24:39
Compression
Type/rate of compression for moving image file (i.e. MPEG-4)
H264
Director
Name (or names) of the person who produced the video
Ken Burns
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Watson Warriner - On War, Many Voices
Subject
The topic of the resource
DuPont; Hanford
Description
An account of the resource
A short documentary featuring Watson Warriner, a high-level DuPont employee during the Manhattan Project. From a personal email sent from Warriner to CREHST Curator Connie Estep - "It highlights the astounding construction statistics of HEW, the unusual method used to heat this spread out village [Richland?] and personal episodes involving my friend, the B Reactor's Construction Engineer, Robert Forrest Stewart!"
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
WHYY (Television station : Philadelphia, Pa.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
WHYY (Television station : Philadelphia, Pa.)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Hanford History Project DOES NOT hold copyright to this resource.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2D-4A / T.2008.68
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F12db5e9c649ed7257e0b516c272d16f9.3gp
1c4fb99bc66977e6d1f52da8f5daa32f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
F. Gary Fetterolf
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Eugene Wallace
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
01:17:10
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
317kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Eugene Wallace Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
An account of the resource
From CREHST Oral History Agreement: "how he came to Hanford; work as technician in theoretical physics dept.; patents; first mini0compuyter on Hanford Site."
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
03/10/2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
mp4
Language
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English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2D-4A / T.2013.016
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F9cd9a9d3436f875f621bbb9946280978.mp4
c6d7610f2fc639d0d6f286ff59d22d29
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
F. Gary Fetterolf
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
W. F. Walker
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:11:04
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
317kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
W. F. Walker Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
An account of the resource
From CREHST Oral History Agreement: "Youth, schooling, army; work at 300 & 400 areas as instrument man; standards lab or calibration of instruments; work as inst. [instrument] technician for cladding operations both A1 and N Reactor Fuel."
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
03/17/2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
mp4
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2D-4A / T.2013.019
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F6e97bca6faf135e93380ebef64469ac5.mp4
276b8be1d2fe08b22e4e78f5771a35f7
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
F. Gary Fetterolf
Sarah S. Hilaire
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Mary S. Taylor
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:45:11
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
317kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Mary and Jim Taylor Oral History Interview
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Description
An account of the resource
From CREHST Oral History Agreement: "Biography; Sale of Home to Govt.; Growing up; and file mace miners birthing center."
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1/22/13
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
mp4
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2D-4A / T.2013.2
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F8b329b6f934b3b8536a566ded81b4484.mp4
e748db65e99d870e9bd8b9aefca6b830
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
F. Gary Fetterolf
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Shannon L. Smith
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:22:55
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
317kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Shannon Smith Oral History Interview
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Description
An account of the resource
From CREHST Oral History Agreement: "Biographic sketch. Living conditions in postwar Richland"
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
4/10/2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
mp4
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2D-4A / T.2013.024
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fb91d48add0fe23c39bb352b573c792a9.mp4
ca56ce24386ee9c7c952c75f97ae1d84
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
CREHST Oral History Project
Title: “Seaborg Remarks”
Date of interview: May 14, 1994
Location of interview: WSU, Tri-Cities
Interviewer: Ron Kathren
Interviewed: Glenn Seaborg
Transcriber: Robert Clayton
Dr. Seaborg was in Richland to give the commencement address for the 1994 graduating class. It was also the 50th anniversary of his first visit to Hanford during WWII. He made these remarks during a reception where he was awarded recognition by several professional societies. (attendee’s gather inside and outside of the WSU, TRI-CITIES reception area.)
RON KATHREN: Welcome to you here today at WSU and our community here in Richland. A lot of good Science goes on and these are some of the scientists representing 3 of the local scientific societies: The American Chemical Society, The American Nuclear Society, and the Health Physics Society. In conjunction with those 3 groups the Trans-uranium and Uranium Registry, which are a part of Washington State University, put together this reception and Professor Seaborg agreed to attend graciously along with
Mrs. Seaborg and I don’t want to leave Helen out because I notice that her family is much like my family and those of you who know me will understand what means. I have to punch a time clock at home.
ALLEN WALTER: She really thinks that she is the brains of the family.
(Laughter)
RON KATHREN: So I’ll introduce you to these fine people standing here: Allen Walter who is the National President of the American Nuclear Society. Next to him is Jerry Gath. Any errors in the book are Jerry’s fault. (Laughter). Terry Aldridge the local Health Physics Society President, and Jim Campbell the American Chemical Society local Section President. Now these people are heavily involved in all this but the real people who did the real work…I can’t even see from here. There’s one of them, Lynn Harwick, who is the administrative manager for the Registries. Where’s June Markel? She’s hiding somewhere. June Markel put this whole thing together almost single-handedly. And I’d like to thank her publicly. I think that you all appreciated the effort that she put out. A lot of you wanted to buy books. They simply ran out. For those of you who want to buy books at the discount rate there are a bunch of order blanks on the table by the door to the Benitz Library and we’ll take care of getting them off to the publisher. Members of the C-31 Group June has arraigned transportation for you to the next event of the afternoon. But the real thing today is to present Glenn Seaborg something that he really needs. When I was down visiting him I noticed a crack in his wall. (Laughter) Right next to your picture of you and Abraham Lincoln together. (Laughter). Glen this citation reads: Honoring Glenn T. Seaborg for extraordinary lifetime contributions to Science, Education, and the Nation. Presented on the occasion of his 50th anniversary visit to Hanford by an appreciative group of younger colleges. Given in Richland, WA this 14th Day of May, in the year 1994. And it is my pleasure to present that to you (Applause).
RON KATHREN: He’s going to tell us about his tie now. (Laughter).
SEABORG: Well this is totally unexpected. Thank-you very much. As Ron has indicated and called attention to my tie I might mention its significance. I wear it on occasions like this. It was presented to me. It has the 5 colors of the 5 oxidation states of plutonium. (Laughter). Those of you who know something about the plutonium industry the oxidation states are 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7. As Ron has indicated this occasion constitutes well the opportunity for a re-union of the chemists and chemical engineers who worked with me at the metallurgical laboratory and other parts of the project during the war. Actually 50 years ago. In fact May is the 50th anniversary of my first visit to Hanford. These are the people who worked with me in conceiving, producing, and scaling up the chemical processes that were used for the production of plutonium here at Hanford. And we’re going to have a reunion at the home of Fred and Eddrey Albaugh. Eddrey served as my secretary to help me run this group of chemists during the metallurgical laboratory days. And Fred was a classmate of mine at UCLA whom I brought to Chicago. And then he stole Eddrey from me. (Laughter) And they got married. I believe this has been a wonderful occasion to come back here to Hanford and Richland after all of these years. I described in my commencement address last night something about what Hanford and Richland looked like 50 years ago so I won’t go through that again. I’ve been back here a large number of times I would imagine about 10 times since that first visit and watch the place change. It’s still a dynamic place. Of course for another reason now to clean up the mess that we made. I might make a remark in that connection too. We certainly had another agenda then. That was to beat Hitler to the atomic bomb. If we’d have stopped and paid attention to waste disposal and so forth at that time well it would have been impossible. It just would not have been feasible. And I don’t know of a single person who didn’t have in mind that the primary objective was to get this job done. And get it done as soon as possible. Well as I have indicated it’s a nostalgic experience to come back here to Hanford. It coincides with the publication of my Metallurgical Laboratory Journal which was arraigned by Ron Kathren and the work done by Jerry Dopp and his student Gary Benefield. I’m sorry the publisher didn’t have hundreds of copies out here. (Laughter). But hope you’ll all be able to get copies. It’s quite a production job. It’s really only about 1/4 or 1/3 of the journal but I think the most important parts are in there. And included are 670 graphical sketches of the people involved. Now you can imagine the task the problem of getting the material on 670 people. I and Jerry and Ron were on the phone all over the United States. I would get a lead on where somebody was and sometimes it would take several phone calls. Sometimes of course I would learn that the person had died and I would reach the wife or in some cases a child. I encountered a tremendous variation in the ability of the person to respond. I mean after 50 years the youngest would be …let’s say 20 years old almost none were that young but let’s say 20 then most of them would be about 80 years old. And so I had a great variation in the responsiveness of these people. Bearing all the way from not knowing quite who I was to who he was (Laughter) to people like those here today who of course are all right on the ball. Helen was in it from the very beginning. She was Ernest Lawrence’s secretary. He was the director of the laboratory at Berkley, the Radiation Laboratory, and the inventor of the cyclotron. Actually I dictated to Helen in her role as Lawrence’s secretary the reports describing the discovery of plutonium. And the first chemical study of this element. I’d like to say Helen was so efficient as his secretary and taking down these dictations that I began to date her. She doesn’t relate so well to that. I quickly found that she had other attributes as well. So we began to date each other. We had some obstacles to overcome. I was going with somebody and she was going with somebody else. So we straightened that out. I knew from the beginning what my objective was. It only took me one look and I knew what I was going to try for. And I was persistent and little by little we began to go together and so forth. Then when I was called to Chicago after Pearl Harbor when the Manhattan Project or what became the Manhattan Project when the production of plutonium was set up. I knew that I needed to make some arrangement so I made a deal with Helen before I left for Chicago. Well some people would say I proposed to her. She accepted me and then I went to Chicago and came back by arrangement in 6 weeks. To the Bay area to the Radiation Laboratory. And then we took a train down to Los Angeles a night train. By the way in those days in separate berths. (Laughter) Introduced her to my parents and then the next day we took a night train to Nevada. We got off the train at a place called Caliente to get married. We thought. Well Caliente wasn’t the county seat. We tried to get a marriage license and they said well you know you can’t get it here. This is described in the book.
RON KATHREN: Yes the book is really a love story. You’ll learn the real reason he used to visit Earnest Lawrence wasn’t to see Earnest Lawrence. (Laughter)
SEABORG: Absolutely! I found a lot of reasons to visit Earnest Lawrence. Anyway we Managed, but you’ll have to read this in the book, to find the county seat and hook a ride on a mail truck going 30 miles north, helping to deliver mail along the way, and we finally got married. Actually on the 50th anniversary or a day very close to that we happened to be in Las Vegas, Nevada for the annual meeting of the American Academy of Achievement. So we took time off and drove up to the town where we got married. Found the courthouse and everything. It’s all there. And had a real nostalgic experience. Well I talked longer than I intended to well I turned to Helen to ask her and she says, “Yes!” ask her if I overlooked anything? Well we appreciate you all being here honoring us in this way. I will find a place for this if not next to my picture with Abraham Lincoln then next to my picture with Ann Margaret. (Laughter) (Applause)
RON KATHREN: I’d like to thank all my society people from the Trans-Uranium Registry and again June Markel to Susan Young who I neglected before and Lynn Harwick they put it all together and the University for this lovely setting. Thank you all very much. (Applause) There is in fact and I’ve seen it myself and so has Jerry we’ll vouch for its authenticity a picture of Glenn Seaborg standing next to Abraham Lincoln on the wall in his office. And I think you are 2” taller than Abe. But he’s a little younger than that.
(Laughter)
(Photos taken and people milling about the reception area and campus)
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:22:56
Compression
Type/rate of compression for moving image file (i.e. MPEG-4)
MPEG-4
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Seaborg Remarks
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
An account of the resource
"Dr. Seaborn was in Richland to give the commencement address for the 1994 graduating class. IT was also the 50th anniversary of his first visit to Hanford during WWII. He made these remarks during a reception where he was awarded recognition by several professional societies."
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
05/14/1994
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
mp4
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2D-4A
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F7527c131a4fb4ed65d224b094c759499.mp4
b6135fcebe2523c29775ac58fcc447d7
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
F. Gary Fetterolf
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Delores M. Loebsack
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:43:03
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
317kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Delores M. Loebsack Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
White Bluffs (Wash.)
Description
An account of the resource
From the CREHST Oral History Agreement: "Life at White Bluffs. Main file with after recording addenda file."
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
7/19/12
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
mp4
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2D-4A / T.2012.045
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Ffa3f552d5e05c5fe672b53a4e6b87c2e.mp4
dc6cf5b4262cd705fe8555eafe291f39
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Unknown
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Kay Lamb
Location
The location of the interview
CREHST Museum, Richland, WA
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
TITLE: KAY LAMB
INTERVIEW DATE: FEBRUARY 11, 2002
INTERVIEW LOCATION: CREHST MUSEUM, RICHLAND, WA
INTERVIEWER: UNKNOWN
INTERVIEWED: KAY LAMB
TRANSCRIBER: JUDY SIMPSON
LENGTH: 20 MINUTES
KAY: I arrived in Richland in 1948. My husband opened the John Ball School in North Richland. I guess
it was at the time General Electric took over and there was more construction going on. A large trailer park
was built where the business are now in North Richland. The school opened on February of 1948 and was
open until 1955.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, Kay tell us a little about the difficulties in construction of the John Ball School or
any other funny stories. Different type of stories about this unique school.
KAY: When we arrived, the first phase of the school was there. There were twelve hutments. Six
facing on each side facing a wide hall. There was no planting around there at all. Nothing but gravel and
sand. The wind would blow. Some teachers blew right out of town when they encountered their first dust
storm. The first day of school, I think there were 60 children registered. On the second day, there were 60
children. On the third day there were 153 children enrolled. There were 160 some trailers in the camp. At
the end of that school year they had over 400 children. There was double shifting in order to take of the
children. This, of course, demanded more trailers so they added more Quant-sets, and also a huge Quant-set
which was the cafeteria and auditorium. They were able to take care of the children in that way. The halls
were nice and wide. Some of the P.E. classes had to be held in the hall. Some of the Art classes, also were
held in the hall. Art Classes in nice weather were outside on the side of the river. When the alarms came
for practice drills, the children scampered outside. The children then lay down in a ditch. This was between
the schoolhouse and the river. There were many, many funny things that happened there. All of the
teachers that were out there said, “That it was a wonderful experience just to have been there under those
conditions”.
INTERVIEWER: Can you tell us some of the funny things that happened?
KAY: Well, I cannot think of anything right now, but there were lots of funny things that happened.
INTERVIEWER: You will probably remember some as we go along.
KAY: Yes
INTERVIEWER: Okay, How long was your husband principal at John Ball School?
KAY: My husband was principal for that year, 1948-1949. From there he went to Spalding’s and was
principal for Spalding’s School. James LaCair followed him as principal, and then he moved to the
Sacajawea School; Winfield Fountain was a popular principal out there. Eric Sodaburg was the last
principal and the school closed in 1955. The construction camp was gone, and the buildings there now
are Battelle‘s.
INTERVIEWER: Some of these Quant-sets were taken out to…..Were they demolished.
KAY: The school is all gone now.
INTERVIEWER: They got rid of all the Quant-sets all together.
KAY: Yes, but the trailers were each on 40 feet (foot) lots. In every square block, there was a washhouse,
shower and bathroom facilities.
INTERVIEWER: Where were the trailers in location to the school?
KAY: The school was along the river. Trailers were all around it.
INTERVIEWER: All around the school.
KAY: All around the school, yes. As one of the women I was talking to the other day, she said “They
asked them where they would like to put their trailer, and they said close to the school”. The answer was
“Yes, you and everyone else.” She said, “The school was on “A” Street and we were on “U” Street.”
INTERVIEWER: Okay, you taught at Lewis & Clark. What year did you start?
KAY: Yes, I started teaching in the fall of 1948 at Lewis & Clark. Lewis & Clark School was close to our
home. Our children went to school there.
INTERVIEWER: How big was Lewis & Clark School?
KAY: Lewis & Clark School, I do not remember exactly how large it was. We had three teachers at each
grade level.
INTERVIEWER: What was the average number of children you had in a classroom? What grade level did
you teach.
KAY: I taught the fourth grade. We had 30 to 35 students in the rooms. The first year I taught, we had a
fire at Lewis & Clark School. We then had to go into smaller quarters. I remember, we just had to
crawl over the desks to get around, because I had 35 students. That was quite a year too.
INTERVIEWER: Now, you taught all subjects then as a fourth grade teacher. There were no specialists
really at that time. Did you give a P.E.?
KAY: Yes, we had boys and girls P.E. classes. There were two P.E. teachers, one Art, and Music
teacher. We had all of those plus… a Librarian and a Reading Specialist who helped us with children who
were having problems. That is when I first started, we continued to have that, and improved on it.
INTERVIEWER: Kay has a scrapbook here from the John Ball School. Kay is going to explain a few
things here in it. There is a picture, that picture was taken in what year, approximately.
KAY: Oh, it must have been 1948. This is the faculty. My husband and the secretary. And this, of
course, is a picture of the whole area here. Here is the school and these are the trailers.
INTERVIEWER: The trailers went all the way around the school. Well not all the way around.
KAY: All of these areas, and here is the school. I guess this is the school right here.
INTERVIEWER: Now this is a shot of when it first opened.
KAY: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: How far up North Richland, was the Ball School? It was beside the river and what
street presently now would it be close to?
KAY: I am not familiar enough with that. It would have been closer to the river than Battelle. Right across
from Goose Island. We were there at the time of the flood. That was the Spring of 1948.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, now this page is special. Okay, go ahead.
KAY: The Art teacher, Janet Baconstine, made these for some occasion we had. They were on newsprint
and charcoal. Anyway, this represents the Lambs arriving in Richland in 1948. Here it shows us getting
settled. This picture is of the janitor taking the lady teachers to an outhouse, because there was no
plumbing the first few days.
INTERVIEWER: John Ball School had no plumbing.
KAY: That is right. When they first opened. So, the janitor took them out to this abandon outhouse. Here
the woman is guarding the door, so no workman would come use it while it was occupied. Then here’s a
picture of us: the wind blowing and the sun shinning on John Ball School. The teachers often brought their
lunches, so they would get together at noon. This picture is where one of the teachers is peering in the
closet to get out the food. This is a picture of the janitor setting in the hall on his cart eating his lunch.
In this picture, the teacher is scurrying to put their food away from lunch as the bell rings for school to take-
up again. At the end of the school year, the teachers gave a party and they gave my husband, presented my
husband with a chair. I think it was Loretta Roadie, carrying this chair past the office trying to be sure he
did not see it.
She took it to where they were having the party. This is the picture of a child during a
dust storm. Here, they finally got, the heat was coming on, but it was hot and we did not need the heat
anymore. This is my husband and Ernie Curtis having a coffee break. This is a picture of my husband
at the desk dreaming about the gymnasium and cafeteria they would have. This is Vera Edwards on the
playground, and the dust has come-up and she has lost her P.E. class. Here they are, she and Bill Bressler,
playing ping-pong in the hall. This is the one I told you about that left during the dust storm. This is a
picture of the nurse, Ruth Heingardner, when she was ill. Here is a sign when the cafeteria will open.
Finally, in May. The drinking fountains, you see, she made a joke of them. This one was a
funny little incident. Here is the janitor wearing a gas mask cleaning-up during a dust storm. The dust is
coming in the windows.
INTERVIEWER: Now, did you experience the same problems with dust in Lewis & Clark School?
KAY: Oh no. Not nearly as bad, but we had to put a rag over his face and send him to the basement. You
see there were lots and lots of kids. At that time, there were a thousand kids in that school.
INTERVIEWER: In the John Ball School, a thousand kids. Now what grades.
KAY: Well, that went through the 8th grade. Elementary school. Kindergarten thru 8th grade, until
Carmikel was finished. Then the 8th grade went….the seventh and eighth graders went. In 1971 they
moved into the new building.
INTERVIEWER: So, you were there.
KAY: I was there just a half of a semester. We moved in January, and I retired in the Spring.
INTERVIEWER: So you did not get to spend much time in the school.
KAY: No, but it was alright with me. It was a new concept of schools. They had what they called “Pods”.
It was all an open area.
INTERVIEWER: Yea right, things changed in the 1970’s quite a bit in education. That was the California
attitude that started coming in.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:16:03
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
317kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Kay Lamb Oral History Interview
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
An account of the resource
Kay Lamb was one of the original teachers at the John Ball School in North Richland, a school made out of hutments that served the North Richland Construction Camp.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2/11/2002
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project
Language
A language of the resource
English
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
F. Gary Fetterolf
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Donald R. Kalkwarf
Location
The location of the interview
Home of Donald R. Kalkwarf.
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
N/A
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:42:56
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
317kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Donald R. Kalkwarf Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
An account of the resource
From CREHST Oral History Agreement: "Dr. Kalkwarf has a doctorate in chemistry and worked in biology, chemistry, and other disciplines beginning with General Electric in 1951. Extensive World War II experiences."
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
09/28/2011
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project
Format
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mp4
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2D-4A / T.2011.81
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abb43540475494b7104d4096ad1b7a51
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
F. Gary Fetterolf
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Jack A. Houston
Location
The location of the interview
Home of Jack Houston
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
N/A
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
02:38:33
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
160kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Jack Houston Oral History Part 2
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
An account of the resource
From CRESHT Oral History Agreement: "Jack Houston - Oral History - Segment 4 Floods and Adult Live and Events."
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
10/16/2012
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
m4v
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2D-4A / T.2012.92
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
F. Gary Fetterolf
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Jack A. Houston
Location
The location of the interview
Home of Jack A. Houston
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
N/A
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
02:15:39
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
126kpbs
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Jack Houston Oral History Part 1
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
An account of the resource
From CREHST Oral History Agreement: "Segment 1: Early life including Depression years. Segments 2 & 3: Young adult, military, years following military
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
10/4/2012
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu.
Language
A language of the resource
English
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
F. G. Fetterolf
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Joe W. Jordan
Location
The location of the interview
Home of Joe W. Jordan
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
N/A.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:45:45
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
705kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Joe W. Jordan Oral History Part 2
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
An account of the resource
From CREHST Oral History Agreement: "One 45 minute tape. Use of Gloves in Laboratory. Charging D Reactor the first time. Knowledge of what was being produced. History of gamma measurements. 200 North Area. Houses lived in. Name spellings."
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2/17/2006
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2D_4A / T.2006.11
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
F. Gary Fetterolf
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Joe W. Jordan
Location
The location of the interview
Home of Joe W. Jordan
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
N/A
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Joe W. Jordan Oral History Part 1
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
An account of the resource
3 audiotapes labeled a, b, c (and corresponding audio files labeled the same manner). From CREHST Oral History Agreement: "Autobiographical. 1941 - Dupont, Chicago, Hanford, History of NMC - Measurements and Accounting."
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
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2/1/2006
Contributor
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F. Gary Fetterolf
Rights
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Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
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RG2D_4A / T.2006.4a-c
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Ff77f149142ebe4c48abb5cf77c11a66c.mp4
dd068c320bd42b55f10dc427c0c4f456
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
F. Gary Fetterolf
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Carolyn Hempel
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:36:51
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
317kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Carolyn Hempel Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
An account of the resource
From the CREHST Oral History Agreement: "Life in late 40's and 50's in Richland. Dust, trees, early Christ the King school, phones. Infertility."
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
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6/16/2013
Contributor
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F. Gary Fetterolf
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2D_4A / T.2013.027
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F3aa0d0c4e702033f47aac627f266c07f.m4v
5841fb86b22d3684bccc407b85204e5a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
F. Gary Fetterolf
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Ernal P. Galbraith
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
01:32:50
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
8717kbps data
317kbps audio
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ernal Galbraith Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Richland, WA
Pearl Harbor
Description
An account of the resource
"Life from 1917 including Pearl Harbor, coming to Richland, work at Site until 1982, impressions of Southern segregation, the dust of Richland."
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
7/20/2012
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG1D_4A / T.2012.046
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fbc874714a9ce46aa0bee8c4d9bb87fc4.mp4
818bb2f5e58286ec770358a022e1a1c5
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Glynn Wheeler
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:19:57
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
317kpbs
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TITLE: CREHST ORAL HISTORY 2003
INTERVIEW DATE: JULY 10, 2003
INTERVIEW LOCATION: UNKNOWN
INTERVIEWER: UNKNOWN
INTERVIEWED: ALFRED WEHNER
TRANSCRIBER: JUDY SIMPSON
LENGTH: 24:00 MINUTES
INTERVIEWER: Today we are interviewing, Alfred Wehner. Al was born in October 1926, in Guesbox, Germany. At age 14 he joined the (Figgler Hitler Juggen) or the “Hitler Youth Flying Core“, to become a fighter pilot. Fuel and manpower shortage led to his ground assignment on the Russian front. He was part of a small force defending Luecow. They held Luecow for two days and fled to the Alp River. His group was then ordered to head toward Czechoslovakia to fight the Russians. When the war ended he was 500 kilometers east of his home town, and 200 kilometers behind Russian lines. He found his way home thirteen days later. Following the war he attented Glazing Medicene and Industry. He immigrated to the United States in 1953. He and his wife moved to the Tri-Cities in 1967, and he went to work for Battelle. Over the years, Dr. Wehner has authored more than 120 scientific publications and has received three U. S. Patton. His research has been in the area of electro-aerosol and intoxiocology he continues to work as a consultant. Today could you tell us a little bit about your story? Growing-up in Germany and how you became involved in the “Hitler Youth Flying Core”?
ALFRED: I was born, as was mentioned in, October 1926. ……………… When (inaudible) came into power I was six years old when World War II started, for Germany I was 12 years old, and when Hitler came into power a few years later there was (inaudible). Every youth at the age of 10 had to join what you would call here the Cub Scouts and at the age of 14 you were automatically transferred to the Hitler Youth, had become a leader (spoke in German) which were Cub Scouts. I was interested in flying and the war was still going on. What I did not want to become was a member of the infantry. I love flying, it gave me a chance to put my fate in my own hands and hoping I wasn’t to be killed. I wanted to be able to do my own mistakes and not due to a Sergeants order, who said……CHARGE! The first year of the flying core we had to build our own glider planes. (Inaudible, possibly German) At the age of fifteen I got my first wing, and by the age of 17 I had three wings and was an accomplished glider pilot. At that time because of my age, 17. I was drafted, again I did not want to serve in the infantry, so I volunteered for the (spoken in German) German Air Force. I was drafted, that was in August 1944, at the age of 17. After a brief boot camp I went to the Air Born Academy with three (inaudible). It is a separate intuition like the Air Force Academy here. Like Colorado, of course it was not that fancy. Our flight training began. My aim, my hope was to become a fighter pilot. In February, of March “45” we run out of aviation fuel curtsy of the Air Forces. A general shortage of fuel; so we were given rifles and sent to the east of Frankengo to stop the Russians; which by that time had drove into Czechoslovakia over running the (inaudible). Our troop trade we were 200, the next 20 miles, and we had picked up a 1000 recruits somewhere. We were loaded into cattle wagons and sometimes driven to the settlements to form a new division in the infantry. They drove us right to the Russian tanks. At that time the Russians had started their last assault on Berlin. In two bits of movements. The north Wahshoogah, in the south Bahchoconth in a slow movement to capture the land, and we were driven right to those tanks in Bahchoconth. They shot us up; we were out armed, so we ran for our lives. The Russian tanks between us (shows Alfred moving arms back and forth). About 200 of us managed to escape and we came to a small town called Gluehow, this was Azeeway these days, this was Jewish, Germany. The Nazi official was overall capsule authority in those towns. He ordered us to the trenches, the folks had already dug trenches around Gluehow, and so we were ordered to the trenches. He gave every 10th of us a rifle. The trenches were full of bazookas, and the Russians made the mistake of attacting with the tanks, and we knocked them off as they came. If they would have attacted us with broomsticks that would have killed us all. We held look out for two days. We broke out one night it was pretty and we could see a movie, a piece of junk that came to happen. We reversed our caps and blackened our faces. At the top of our column, I think there were some of the stragglers, top column was a motorcyclist who spoke Russian there were some other armed forces stragglers with vechiles with an 88 gun and two with 22 milimeter guns. We drove these fields….like grapes. We drove right threw the Russian lines. I could see the Russian’s in line. I could see the puffs of their cigarettes. We just drove threw…but that roués lasted only as long as there was night. Daylight broke there were some ammunation fights…battles. Most of us managed to get out. Our general thrive was to go West, West, West, away from the Russians, because we knew the areas where Russians guarded. What they did to prisonors and civilian population. So, we reached the Elva River. The Elva River flows southeast to northwest. We had hoped to cross the Elva River to go to the cross over the Elva to go to the Americans, but somehow we got orders to go up the Elva River which lead us to which is now Czechoslovakia, and that was the last German bastion that was still fighting. The other army groups; Italy, Scandinavia; West, and the German (inaudible). The commander of this Czechoslovakia group was General Sharnay (inaudible) Nazi he gave us orders to fight to the last man. Then he shed his uniform, wore some civies took a plane and flew over to the Americans. In any event, my 9th, early morning was the day wakeup the (inaudible). In the meantime, the Russians had taken Berlin, I think around May 1st , and the combined army groups of Surecoff and Doneff then made a right angle turn south driving toward Braug, only 200 kilometer wide front and everything that was east of that sweep was cut-off from Germany, that was Germany. I had the misfortune of being at that group (inaudible) and we were not allowed off. (Loud laughing from another group-inaudible). Something about being 18. My hometown was 500 kilometers, about 350 miles, west of were I was, but we were 200 kilometers inside Russia. The (something) kilometers and the rest was American occupied the territory. The Allied Armed Forces had already captured all German soliders after capulation. They had to go through a prisoner of war camp. I presume it was to screen out Nazi’s; war criminals or whatever. I had no intentions of imposing on their hospitality. It was an adventurous trip home, sometimes my life hanged in the balance….again, and again. I made it after 13 days to my home town, but of course, I came home to a free country. All the cities were rubble. I thought at the time being used to the German, I thought in my lifetime they could not pick-up that rubble. Survices to say at first, the first three years out of the war were rough. We starved and there were signs the Americans had made up signs on the trees, “Don’t fratenize”. So, we were the enemy, on the account of the trustee’s that had become public at the Concentration Camps and all that. We were tyrants among the nations. The only offered currency offered before 1948 began what was subsequently called (inaudible). From 1948 on you could start buying things again; before that you could not buy anything. Not even a nail, if you needed coupons for suits, for clothing, for shoes, which were hard to get. I got a coupon for a suit because I had grown out of my suit that I had left at home when I went to the war. After a long wait I got a coupon and I went to the store and they didn’t have any suits. The experiation date on my coupon, well the coupon expired, so I had to apply for another one. So that is some of what life was after the war. The American policy at that time was “The German’s Shall Starve”, “Starve to Death” this actually in the only, when the East Germans fought their government under Soviet occupation (inaudible) and then the Western allies wanted a counter balance and slowly the West Germans started more and more power itself, the samething we wanted to do in Iran, except in Iran amounted to weeks and months, where Germany took quite a number of years. So things got better by 1950 except there were still ruins. I had the good fortune to come here, and to find a sponsor. I was always infatuated by the United States as a kid I had models of …about the Wild West. (Loud laughing….inaudible). During the war I would admire the B-17’s, beautiful planes, although they were a curse in the end. Incidently, after the war the number of sports were prohibited, like shooting of course, we taught shooting, judo even foil fencing was some of the (inaudible). Cause you can’t do much with a foiling fence against an Atomic Bomb. In 1949 these laws were loosened and these sports came up again. Right after the war there was no schools, no Universities, no member of the Nazi Party was allowed to continue in his profession other than manual labor. They all had to go through denazivication or there was a (inaudible) board had to go to court. The court consisted of “anti-Nazi” of course there was an initial bias to begin with. There were a lot of people that joined the party and paid their $2 a month and attempt their careers. All the Nazi members, Party members could not practice their profession that was dangerous. My Dad was a dentist (laughing inaudible) in all these times he was arrested away from his patient and disappeared for 5 months. We did not know if he was alive. A lot of these people were sent to France to work in the mines; under very stressful conditions, many died there. In that time he disappeared from the face of this earth and I was alone, but my mother left us when I was 8 years old. I was 18 years old by that time. After five months I got a form letter from an American concentration camp. (Inaudible) camp. They kept him; there was no arrest warrant, no charge. After fifteen (or could be 50) months they told him go home now. He could not resume his practice until he went through the denazifacation process, which took a year or two. The ironary of it all, the people who had to go through this process were classified in five groups. Number 1 was the main criminal types that were (inaudible). Number 4 were the ones that just paid their dues, and had done nothing bad. Number 5 were the one’s who had to prove that they even suffered under the Nazi’s or had helped people who were persecuted by the Nazis. My Dad was classified as Number 5. (Sentence inaudible……lots of loud laughing). I was fortunate to (inaudible) American occupiation; my hometown was in the American occupied zone. I found a sponsor because it was my desire to come to the United States, and she sponsored me then on April 6th in 1953 it is just like a couple of months ago. That is it in a nutshell my experience over there. I was there at the wrong time and the wrong place.
UNKNOWN: Were you moved to the United States when you arrived here in 1953 and where were you living?
ALFRED: Well, I arrived in Obant, NJ which was the harbor for New York. I lived in New York City for two years, and was then a member of the 7100 Hospital United States Air Force, in my hometown that was where I was allowed to practice on Americans; I was there from “1954” to “1956”, and then I had to look for a new job because I couldn‘t practice here. I could not find a job in New York for an accountant. I met my wife and we married in Germany. I met her (inaudible). We had a 6 month old baby; we loaded everything we had in the car and drove down the east coast line, she had some friends from the Air Force Hospital, so I thought I could find a job. We then drove down to Flordia…..nothing. I figured let’s go to California, I always loved California. I might as well have stayed in Berlin, although I have never been there. Our last big stop was Texas. A collegue of mine said, “Al, if you ever come to Texas you have got to visit us”. So on our way to California we stoped in Texas.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Glynn Wheeler Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
An account of the resource
Part of the CREHST 2003 Oral History public programming. Interviews filmed in front of a live audience.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2003
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2D_4A / T.2010.052.06
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F6d41605628a8446dcd24cb987a5dd7b0.mp4
a56c2763fd26463439fb5c226e0398bd
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Alfred P. Wehner
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:23:41
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
317kpbs
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TITLE: CREHST ORAL HISTORY 2003
INTERVIEW DATE: JULY 10, 2003
INTERVIEW LOCATION: UNKNOWN
INTERVIEWER: UNKNOWN
INTERVIEWED: ALFRED WEHNER
TRANSCRIBER: JUDY SIMPSON
LENGTH: 24:00 MINUTES
INTERVIEWER: Today we are interviewing, Alfred Wehner. Al was born in October 1926, in Guesbox, Germany. At age 14 he joined the (Figgler Hitler Juggen) or the “Hitler Youth Flying Core“, to become a fighter pilot. Fuel and manpower shortage led to his ground assignment on the Russian front. He was part of a small force defending Luecow. They held Luecow for two days and fled to the Alp River. His group was then ordered to head toward Czechoslovakia to fight the Russians. When the war ended he was 500 kilometers east of his home town, and 200 kilometers behind Russian lines. He found his way home thirteen days later. Following the war he attented Glazing Medicene and Industry. He immigrated to the United States in 1953. He and his wife moved to the Tri-Cities in 1967, and he went to work for Battelle. Over the years, Dr. Wehner has authored more than 120 scientific publications and has received three U. S. Patton. His research has been in the area of electro-aerosol and intoxiocology he continues to work as a consultant. Today could you tell us a little bit about your story? Growing-up in Germany and how you became involved in the “Hitler Youth Flying Core”?
ALFRED: I was born, as was mentioned in, October 1926. ……………… When (inaudible) came into power I was six years old when World War II started, for Germany I was 12 years old, and when Hitler came into power a few years later there was (inaudible). Every youth at the age of 10 had to join what you would call here the Cub Scouts and at the age of 14 you were automatically transferred to the Hitler Youth, had become a leader (spoke in German) which were Cub Scouts. I was interested in flying and the war was still going on. What I did not want to become was a member of the infantry. I love flying, it gave me a chance to put my fate in my own hands and hoping I wasn’t to be killed. I wanted to be able to do my own mistakes and not due to a Sergeants order, who said……CHARGE! The first year of the flying core we had to build our own glider planes. (Inaudible, possibly German) At the age of fifteen I got my first wing, and by the age of 17 I had three wings and was an accomplished glider pilot. At that time because of my age, 17. I was drafted, again I did not want to serve in the infantry, so I volunteered for the (spoken in German) German Air Force. I was drafted, that was in August 1944, at the age of 17. After a brief boot camp I went to the Air Born Academy with three (inaudible). It is a separate intuition like the Air Force Academy here. Like Colorado, of course it was not that fancy. Our flight training began. My aim, my hope was to become a fighter pilot. In February, of March “45” we run out of aviation fuel curtsy of the Air Forces. A general shortage of fuel; so we were given rifles and sent to the east of Frankengo to stop the Russians; which by that time had drove into Czechoslovakia over running the (inaudible). Our troop trade we were 200, the next 20 miles, and we had picked up a 1000 recruits somewhere. We were loaded into cattle wagons and sometimes driven to the settlements to form a new division in the infantry. They drove us right to the Russian tanks. At that time the Russians had started their last assault on Berlin. In two bits of movements. The north Wahshoogah, in the south Bahchoconth in a slow movement to capture the land, and we were driven right to those tanks in Bahchoconth. They shot us up; we were out armed, so we ran for our lives. The Russian tanks between us (shows Alfred moving arms back and forth). About 200 of us managed to escape and we came to a small town called Gluehow, this was Azeeway these days, this was Jewish, Germany. The Nazi official was overall capsule authority in those towns. He ordered us to the trenches, the folks had already dug trenches around Gluehow, and so we were ordered to the trenches. He gave every 10th of us a rifle. The trenches were full of bazookas, and the Russians made the mistake of attacting with the tanks, and we knocked them off as they came. If they would have attacted us with broomsticks that would have killed us all. We held look out for two days. We broke out one night it was pretty and we could see a movie, a piece of junk that came to happen. We reversed our caps and blackened our faces. At the top of our column, I think there were some of the stragglers, top column was a motorcyclist who spoke Russian there were some other armed forces stragglers with vechiles with an 88 gun and two with 22 milimeter guns. We drove these fields….like grapes. We drove right threw the Russian lines. I could see the Russian’s in line. I could see the puffs of their cigarettes. We just drove threw…but that roués lasted only as long as there was night. Daylight broke there were some ammunation fights…battles. Most of us managed to get out. Our general thrive was to go West, West, West, away from the Russians, because we knew the areas where Russians guarded. What they did to prisonors and civilian population. So, we reached the Elva River. The Elva River flows southeast to northwest. We had hoped to cross the Elva River to go to the cross over the Elva to go to the Americans, but somehow we got orders to go up the Elva River which lead us to which is now Czechoslovakia, and that was the last German bastion that was still fighting. The other army groups; Italy, Scandinavia; West, and the German (inaudible). The commander of this Czechoslovakia group was General Sharnay (inaudible) Nazi he gave us orders to fight to the last man. Then he shed his uniform, wore some civies took a plane and flew over to the Americans. In any event, my 9th, early morning was the day wakeup the (inaudible). In the meantime, the Russians had taken Berlin, I think around May 1st , and the combined army groups of Surecoff and Doneff then made a right angle turn south driving toward Braug, only 200 kilometer wide front and everything that was east of that sweep was cut-off from Germany, that was Germany. I had the misfortune of being at that group (inaudible) and we were not allowed off. (Loud laughing from another group-inaudible). Something about being 18. My hometown was 500 kilometers, about 350 miles, west of were I was, but we were 200 kilometers inside Russia. The (something) kilometers and the rest was American occupied the territory. The Allied Armed Forces had already captured all German soliders after capulation. They had to go through a prisoner of war camp. I presume it was to screen out Nazi’s; war criminals or whatever. I had no intentions of imposing on their hospitality. It was an adventurous trip home, sometimes my life hanged in the balance….again, and again. I made it after 13 days to my home town, but of course, I came home to a free country. All the cities were rubble. I thought at the time being used to the German, I thought in my lifetime they could not pick-up that rubble. Survices to say at first, the first three years out of the war were rough. We starved and there were signs the Americans had made up signs on the trees, “Don’t fratenize”. So, we were the enemy, on the account of the trustee’s that had become public at the Concentration Camps and all that. We were tyrants among the nations. The only offered currency offered before 1948 began what was subsequently called (inaudible). From 1948 on you could start buying things again; before that you could not buy anything. Not even a nail, if you needed coupons for suits, for clothing, for shoes, which were hard to get. I got a coupon for a suit because I had grown out of my suit that I had left at home when I went to the war. After a long wait I got a coupon and I went to the store and they didn’t have any suits. The experiation date on my coupon, well the coupon expired, so I had to apply for another one. So that is some of what life was after the war. The American policy at that time was “The German’s Shall Starve”, “Starve to Death” this actually in the only, when the East Germans fought their government under Soviet occupation (inaudible) and then the Western allies wanted a counter balance and slowly the West Germans started more and more power itself, the samething we wanted to do in Iran, except in Iran amounted to weeks and months, where Germany took quite a number of years. So things got better by 1950 except there were still ruins. I had the good fortune to come here, and to find a sponsor. I was always infatuated by the United States as a kid I had models of …about the Wild West. (Loud laughing….inaudible). During the war I would admire the B-17’s, beautiful planes, although they were a curse in the end. Incidently, after the war the number of sports were prohibited, like shooting of course, we taught shooting, judo even foil fencing was some of the (inaudible). Cause you can’t do much with a foiling fence against an Atomic Bomb. In 1949 these laws were loosened and these sports came up again. Right after the war there was no schools, no Universities, no member of the Nazi Party was allowed to continue in his profession other than manual labor. They all had to go through denazivication or there was a (inaudible) board had to go to court. The court consisted of “anti-Nazi” of course there was an initial bias to begin with. There were a lot of people that joined the party and paid their $2 a month and attempt their careers. All the Nazi members, Party members could not practice their profession that was dangerous. My Dad was a dentist (laughing inaudible) in all these times he was arrested away from his patient and disappeared for 5 months. We did not know if he was alive. A lot of these people were sent to France to work in the mines; under very stressful conditions, many died there. In that time he disappeared from the face of this earth and I was alone, but my mother left us when I was 8 years old. I was 18 years old by that time. After five months I got a form letter from an American concentration camp. (Inaudible) camp. They kept him; there was no arrest warrant, no charge. After fifteen (or could be 50) months they told him go home now. He could not resume his practice until he went through the denazifacation process, which took a year or two. The ironary of it all, the people who had to go through this process were classified in five groups. Number 1 was the main criminal types that were (inaudible). Number 4 were the ones that just paid their dues, and had done nothing bad. Number 5 were the one’s who had to prove that they even suffered under the Nazi’s or had helped people who were persecuted by the Nazis. My Dad was classified as Number 5. (Sentence inaudible……lots of loud laughing). I was fortunate to (inaudible) American occupiation; my hometown was in the American occupied zone. I found a sponsor because it was my desire to come to the United States, and she sponsored me then on April 6th in 1953 it is just like a couple of months ago. That is it in a nutshell my experience over there. I was there at the wrong time and the wrong place.
UNKNOWN: Were you moved to the United States when you arrived here in 1953 and where were you living?
ALFRED: Well, I arrived in Obant, NJ which was the harbor for New York. I lived in New York City for two years, and was then a member of the 7100 Hospital United States Air Force, in my hometown that was where I was allowed to practice on Americans; I was there from “1954” to “1956”, and then I had to look for a new job because I couldn‘t practice here. I could not find a job in New York for an accountant. I met my wife and we married in Germany. I met her (inaudible). We had a 6 month old baby; we loaded everything we had in the car and drove down the east coast line, she had some friends from the Air Force Hospital, so I thought I could find a job. We then drove down to Flordia…..nothing. I figured let’s go to California, I always loved California. I might as well have stayed in Berlin, although I have never been there. Our last big stop was Texas. A collegue of mine said, “Al, if you ever come to Texas you have got to visit us”. So on our way to California we stoped in Texas.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Alfred P. Wehner Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
An account of the resource
Part of the CREHST 2003 Oral History public programming. Interviews filmed in front of a live audience.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2003
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2D_4A / T.2010.052.06
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F2472b6066bc89f72477a2fb8616b0cae.mp4
5985fbb9a38d1d887153f0c13d54dfcf
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Bob Smith
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:10:11
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
317kpbs
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TITLE: CREHST ORAL HISTORY 2003
INTERVIEW DATE: 2003
INTERVIEW LOCATION: UNKNOWN
INTERVIEWER: UNKNOWN
INTERVIEWED: BOB SMITH
TRANSCRIBER: JUDY SIMPSON
LENGTH: 10:01 MINUTES
INTERVIEWER: Bob Smith everyone.
INTERVIEWER: Bob you came to us from Kansas. What brought you out this direction? To the Tri-Cities.
BOB: Well I had been a member of the Kansas National Guard back at Pittsburg, KS. It was 1951 and the Korean situation was going on; the Federal Government made active about five different towns around southeast Kansas, and my town was one of them. (Bayberry 159 Next sentence I do not understand what he is saying). They sent us up here to Fort Lewis and that is how I ended up in this part of the country.
INTERVIEWER: What did you think of this area when you first arrived?
BOB: Well I really thought it was pretty nice. In Kansas it kind of gets hot in the summertime….110...120 was not that unusual. Here it is maybe 100…105….sometimes it may get a 110. Winters here are milder than they were in Kansas. I just liked the area here.
INTERVIEWER: Right, liked the area. I have here on my paper that you and your wife had the same babysitter when you were young. Could you tell us a little bit about that and how you met?
BOB: Yeah, we were both born in a little town called Cherryville, KS; actually we met at the old community house which is a couple blocks down here. When I did start work here in 1953. To live in Richland you had to be working out at the Hanford Project. Single people stayed in the dormitories, and the other people who their daughters and sons workers had their own houses that they lived with their Mom and Dad with. Well I met this gal at the Community Dance, because that is where single people could meet it was a non-alcoholic event. She asked me “Where I was from” and I told her and she said “What! I was born there too!” Three thousand populations in Kansas. I thought that was strange. I found out later that her mom knew my mom and actually her babysitter was also my babysitter. So, I it was unusual that we would meet out here.
INTERVIEWER: Growing-up and working in the “50’s” could you tell us a little about some the Cold War preparations occurring?
BOB: Well, the Cold War preparations, like I say, I got here to work at Hanford in “53” and they were just in the process of building the 105 K East and the 105 K West reactors out on the project there. They were the newest type; they were production reactors not the commercial reactors to make electricity. They’d keep plutonium for the atomic bomb. Richland was kind of known for one of the fast growing cities in the nations. Especially even a couple years before I was, they had the highest birth rate in the nation, because it seemed like 90% of the people were in the 20’s to 40’s like that…had lots of kids. It was later known as the “Atomic City” because it was one of the two places where the bomb was built.
INTERVIEWER: Being in the fastest growing city in the nation at the time then; what were some of the recreation actives and forms of entertainment in the area?
BOB: Well of course, you have the Columbia River right out here; lots of people would go boating, fishing. We did have, we still have an outfit called “The Richland Light Opera”. It amazes me what kind of talent we have in the Tri-Cities. People who work on a project is work in Kennewick or Pasco. They could put on plays that were real good, outstanding. The same thing with the “, Richland Light Opera”; which was a musical group, people would join in from the Tri-Cities, they had fantastic voices. So basically you can watch your own community with what they could come up with. We had the Atomic Frontier’s Day Races; also the Atomic Cup race started in 1966 out here. Which Budweiser is pretty active in winning now, and was then too. We had those to go to; also, hunting and fishing there were good areas around here to do that. That’s what I did in Kansas. Their were ski slopes up around Mt. Rainier, so really it was the ideal location.
INTERVIEWER: And with so many people here could you tell us a little bit about the housing situation?
BOB: Yeah, the housing; I got here in “53” and it still was a government town; run by the government. General Electric had the contract; to all the business in town paid rent to their stores they had their business in. I lived in the dormitory it was $17.50 a month rent….it would be nice. So, when my wife and I decided to get married we had to signup on the list to get a house, because all the houses were government housing and they were built, they were designed by a guy in Spokane who was well known for his designing houses. So, we put in for a house maybe a month or so before we got married, and we ended up with a “B” house, duplex house one floor type thing. An “A” house was a duplex type that was two story. The houses were just numbered; “A house”, “B house”, “C house”, clear up through to “Y house”, I live in a “Y” house now. It is a recent house. In 1957 the government turned it over to the city and the people got to buy the houses. People with their business’ got to by their building so… if you hear about alphabet houses that is how they got started.
INTERVIEWER: You mentioned that General Electric was one of the companies around here. What other effects of business were around the area at the time?
BOB: Well now, you had your private business around town, uh Western Auto would get their franchise to do that. As far as other companies; Welch’s Grape Juice was over in Kennewick; Port of Pasco in Kennewick they had a lot of shipping; they had a lot of fruit and vegetables in the Tri-Cities area here. As far as local businesses’ there weren’t to many, Welch’s Grape Juice, and Lampson’s Crane Company which made cranes that are sent all over the world and they about still make the biggest cranes and crawlers for NASA. So there were not very many businesses, local business that got franchises from ……………………
INTERVIEWER: As a radiation time keeper what were you in charge of or responsible to do?
BOB: Okay well, my first job was a clerk typist. I probably should mention a little bit about that. Being stationed at Fort Lewis we would come to Yakima Firing Center, a couple of times during the year. My buddy and I hitchhike to Yakima, so we were out there hitchhiking and some guy pulls up in a nice new convertible Oldsmobile, brand new, we got in and we were not bashful about asking questions “Where did you get a car like this? or You must have a good job to afford this.” He said, “I got a pretty good job”, “What do you do?” “I am a guard a showman over at Hanford atomic works.” “Where’s that at?” “Well that’s 80 miles from Yakima.” “Gee, whiz what kind of money do you make?” We were not bashful. He said “I make a $100 a week” and that was pretty good for 1951 and I said, “WOW, that’s pretty good, because I just left Kansas as a clerk typist for clay manufacturing making $30 a week as a clerk typist” “Boy, I could learn to be a patrolman for that”. Anyway, I basically put in for a job, and wound-up as a clerk typist making $60 a week. I did that for one year and then I went into radiation time keeper I did that for five years; I followed construction workers around, because they were constantly building reactors here. Following them to radiation zones keeping time on the “radiation zone” because we only allow a certain amount radiation to leave. We had pistol decimeter but they weren’t the kind they have now a days, self-readers that you could look at the light. In those days, you would have to turn the pistons turned in an eye and you would have to keep time on them and that is what I did for five years. Eventually, I went into RH monitoring and that is what I did from “59” until I retired in “93”.
INTERVIEWER: Our time is just about up here. If you could just leave us with one quick impact …What was the biggest impact on your life in living this area and your job?
BOB: Probably, realizing something magic about the Hanford Atomic Works. Man…Atomics that sounds interesting. I must have been a little curiosity about science, because in being here when they were making the plutonium and top secret information. We didn’t know what these things looked like and it was all kind of fast ending. If we go too far we still have time for one more name.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bob Smith Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
An account of the resource
Part of the CREHST 2003 Oral History public programming. Interviews filmed in front of a live audience.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2003
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2D_4A / T.2010.052.06
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F121395e1f7746b5cc9f7b4f8a98a73da.mp4
e2eeca2686d4aedb792f93b085729920
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Toivo Pippo
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:22:54
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TITLE: CREHST ORAL HISTORY: Toivo Piippo
INTERVIEW DATE: JULY 2003
INTERVIEW LOCATION: Unknown
INTERVIEWER: Joyce
INTERVIEWED: Toivo Piippo
TRANSCRIBER: Judy Simpson
LENGTH: 23 minutes
TOIVO: I am from Astoria, OR. My first name is Toivo. There is pure Finnish unadulterated blood in there. There is no mixture of any kind. When I came to Astoria I got a scholarship to the University of Oregon for basketball. My sophomore year there our squad played Ohio State for NCAA Championship. We were looking to win that game. There were five of us on that squad from Astoria, all Finns. My next year at school the Draft came along. If I remember correctly, Washington D. C. had a large bowl full of numbers, just pieces of paper. They were going to start drafting guys, of course, at that time we did not have any idea of what was happening. So, all of a sudden on the radio they were talking about these numbers, if your number was called you were going to be drafted. The only thing I ever won was that draft. I got the first number, which was 158. I have never won anything else…. ever. I am sorry that I won that time. That did not turn out so hot. That was the end of that basketball game.
INTERVIEWER: Then I understand that you had to go to training. To pilot training. Can you tell us a little about that?
TOIVO: This was peacetime and I was drafted out of Astoria. Everything was disorganized; the draft people, the rules, and the regulations. So, when I went to Astoria to be drafted, I asked for a deferment. This was in the middle of the basketball season. They did not understand that, nobody understood that. That I should be able to finish school, no…. they did not understand that. So I was drafted and sent to Portland, OR and got in a line of four that stretched out to the street. We did not know what the lines were for. I was part way into the building and there was an enlisted man at a desk and he said, “Fellow do you know where you are going?” and I said “I think I am going into the Army”. He then looked at me and said “Do you known where you are going if you stay in that line?” I said “No”. He said “You are going to be in the tanks in Texas next week”. He said, “Do you want to go there?” I said, “No”. If you go over to the next line over, you go in that line you are going to windup in the Louisiana swamps. He said “They have mosquitoes
down there.” I said “I do not want to go there.” The third line come to find out was up in the snow all that stuff. I did not want to do that. The last line you could sign-up for a two year hitch, but this was regular Army at that time. Air force would not separate there, this was just regular Army. I was sent to Moffat Field which is on Bay Shore from San Fran Cisco, south a little ways. There is a large airfield there by the name of Moffat Field. I think it is still there. Upon arriving there we were the first group of draftees to come to this place. Here you were trained left-right, left-right, canes and all that good stuff. When we got there, they had strings of sidewall tents, with wooden sides and a canvas top. My tent was the second one from the beginning, the first tent. The next morning we were out there, they had a can tied to a nail and you had to go around and pickup cigarette butts, “Police the area” they call it. Next to us was a tall skinny guy, he looked familiar to me, but he was in G.I’s underwear, which was huge and baggy, kind of funny looking. I could not place him right away. I found out a short time later. This was “Jimmy Stewart” he was living next to me. He was living with three enlisted people. This was peacetime, and these guys were tough characters……man, I would not want to tell you the things that they did to the ninth or whatever. I was appointed the coach; the guy wanted me to be the coach of the base basketball team. We started to practice, and we had very good players from around the United States. We played our first game, and he was at the first game. After the game I went to the room where we pickup our mail. They have the alphabetical boxes. Well, Piippo was alphabetically close to his name. So, when I was there picking up my mail, he would show up and we struck up a speaking relationship, kind of a friendship. He would always say, “Nice game”. He would make a friendly comment. He came to all our games, and he was a real good moral character. He trained us to march. Everyday we went out and marched, of course, we were civilians. He had a high voice. So, we would march around for a little while and pretty soon we were all out of step, and bumping one another. He would turn around and look. He would get exercised, and his voice would go up higher, and higher. Then we would start all over and still get mixed up. Finally, he would just literally scream. Boy, he could put it way up there. We weren’t laughing at him, we weren’t laughing at the marching, and we were laughing at him, because he got so exercised. A short time later he was over that. Boy…he taught us, the left-rights and all that stuff. He came to all our basketball games. At that time, they had what was called a “Dayroom” as large as this here. In there are magazines, Colliers and Life, and you could play pool. He would be in there on Saturday mornings sitting by himself in a chair, and very quite. People then would go to him, and talk to him. He would hardly talk to any body. Being that I was acquainted with him, I got the courage to sit down with him in the beginning. We started to chat and I got to know him pretty well. One morning, he was writing a thing out on some paper. I said, “What are you doing?” He said, “I am going to be on KGO tonight at 6 o’clock.” He’s going to sell War Bonds and he’s going to making a speech. I looked at him and thought gee this guy never talks. How’s he going to make a speech? Many of us turned the radio on, and he came on he said “My, my, name is James Stewart. I am a lonely Corporal in the Army. I am not an important person.” He was very impressive, really impressive. So, when we came back the next morning we went into the “Dayroom.” All these people in the “Dayroom “stood-up and clapped for him. They thought that was a big deal. A short-time later I went to the library, a big base library. He was in there studying. I went up and asked him “What are you doing?” He said “I’m taking a correspondence course to get a commission from the Air Force from the Army.” Come to find out he was a graduate of Penn, I think. He really studied, he was a student, so we chatted for awhile, all of sudden he told me “Well I passed it and tomorrow I’m leaving to go to the Air Force”. There were guys like me around who had came out of college, and we could qualify that. We followed him right into the Air Force. Like sheep going over a hurdle. I did not know a thing about airplanes, anything never touched one. Why you going into the Air Force? Well, Stewart’s going.
INTERVIEWER: So did you continue to serve with Jimmy Stewart and go through the training?
TOIVO: Uh, Can I tell one more story?
INTERVIEWER: Sure.
TOIVO: The last training exercise we had on marching; this was in a valley near Stanford University. There were hillsides up there, we were suppose to go up that hill, marching on a dirt road, an airplane was suppose to come by and he is suppose to holler “Hit the ditch”, we are suppose to jump under whatever was there. They had issued us with uniforms that had with huge pockets (here). All of a sudden he hollered “Hit the ditch”, and we went hit our belly on the ditch. I looked up and right in front of my face was a bunch of a huge bunch of grapes. We all looked around there, and there were grapes everywhere. We were in the middle of a winery vineyard with grapes in it. When the airplane was gone he hollered “Fall in”. We went out there and he looked at this company and everybody had pockets full of grapes. His voice went up a couple of octaves. He settled down, and we went back to the base. There was a “One Star” General’s car waiting for him. I guess they gave him the word, two thousand dollars worth of grapes disappeared out of the orchard. Well, he wound up in England as I did. We were 10 air miles apart. I think he flew 17 missions, which was not all that many, but he was doing. A very patriotic fellow.
INTERVIEWER: Who (Meant to say “What”) is the average number of missions that a pilot would fly any idea?
TOIVO: Well, it doesn’t work out that way. I was there early in the air war. London was still being bombed, and it was a mess down there. You started to fly in combat, and there across the channel German fighters were waiting for you. We never had daytime escort there, and after we made it across the channel
we made our way to a target. This is a long story. He flew 17 of those things, and I flew 67. The way that works out is that…they said “Twenty and you get to go home”, well when you got 18 they extended that number. When you got the next number they extended that number. Some of those people that were flying, well they were not warriors. Guys that could function under military conditions up in the airplane. Many of them got out for that reason, they just couldn’t. They were dangerous in there, and others found ways to try to get out. The point was, if you were reasonably functioning warrior, so to speak; they wanted to keep you in so they would extend you five; because to replace you, and replace that crew would take a lot of training. Going through the process of finding people that could function under those battle conditions. So, there was not a set, they publicized that, but it really did not work out that way.
INTERVIEWER: Can you describe the plane? How many in the crew, and what their roles were?
TOIVO: This was a B-26 a multi-engine bomber. Made by “Martin Company”. Last week on the tube was an hour long program about the B-26 and what went on, most of the things that went on. So, it was the first airplane that came out with a tri-cycle landing gear, wheels up front, and wheels on the side. It had four bladed props the first one and it also had a hub in front of the propellers that had a break an electrical break inside there. This system controlled the pitch angle of your propeller; it was automatic so if you needed more power it would take a bigger bite then. It could reduce itself to eighteen degrees the blade, but the way it turned out the brake failed often; then the propellers went flat and you could hear them, wind-up and POW. There were eight people on board; there was a bombardier up front; two pilots; an engineer with a double, double-double, fifty caliber machine guns; two waist gunners; and there was a turf in the far back. If you were flying a lead mission (how to get) there was another person on board.
INTERVIEWER: Did you frequently fly the lead position?
TOIVO: Rarely. I was what you call a “bomb jockey.” That meant that you could function in the Air Force, which I didn’t enjoy at all. I thought that was a bummer, before that word ever came around. I was a “bomb jockey” and I just took bombs over there and dropped them and back. That kind of thing.
INTERVIEWER: At any time during your missions, in later years, did they ask, did they add fighter cover for you?
TOIVO: Good question. I had great hostility toward this part of war efforts. When we went there we were young kids; eighteen and nineteen. When we started to fly there they sent the first twelve missions across the channel to a place called “Emodin Electrical” place and none of those planes came back that afternoon. I thought I must be a lousy pilot because I didn’t get to go. Afterwards I said, “Boy, I lucked out of that one”. Twelve more went out the next day and they never came back. So they increased the altitude to medium altitude fifteen, sixteen, or eighteen pounds. Over there is a bomber command, and here is your air field. The bomber commands there are high ranking people who make up the missions where you are going and the whole bag. They call up at night to your airfield and give you all that information. You do as they ordered you to do. These people never had never got out of that desk. I don’t know I think, because we did things that we thought was completely senseless. Flying in the air, people getting killed. I often wonder, I wonder today. Here I am a dinosaur and flew a lot of missions. Those guys who made that up I wonder if they did anything besides pushing a pencil. I still ache about that considerably.
INTERVIEWER: Is there, uh I’ve heard there was a nickname for the B-26 squadrons. They called it……
TOIVO: Many, they were all bad.
INTERVIEWER: But, you talked about the first twenty-four that went over and did not come back, and eventually call the B-26 “The Widow Maker”.
TOIVO: No, No, that was a……. I happened to be in the first B-26’s that were sent out to “McNeal Field” in Tampa. We were single engine students that just graduated. We were very embroiled pilots. Man….and so here they had this B-26 airplane….refresh you question again.
INTERVIEWER: Did they call the B-26 the “Widow Maker”? Because of these first…..
TOIVO: Yes. I will go back to that. That airplane crashed so often that there was a daily crash of a B-26. You could be on the airfield and you heard the break was failing, and the propellers were like this. They didn’t bite anything so the thing went down. Daily these things went down. I think 150 of those airplanes were lifting in Tampa Bay, and uh “McNeal Field” quite a horrendous number. There were other defects that were never taken care of before the airplane was released to fly. All kinds of, I could go in a long story about the defects that were never ….so here these young kids came over there and they never had …and they were flying a plane that was untested that killed people daily. What else?
INTERVIEWER: Oh I’m sorry I was going to ask….we have three minutes left with Mr. Piippo
UNKNOWN: You have two and one half minutes left now, Joyce.
JOYCE: Would you mind if any of these teachers here ask you a question?
TOIVO: Do it.
JOYCE: Anyone have a question for Mr. Piippo?
UNKNOWN: I do. Hear about that in NCAA championship.
TOIVO: That the best part.
UNKNOWN: I bet your not hostel about that at all.
TOIVO: No, No not at all. Played Ohio State, the Pacific Coast was divided into a “Northern” and “Southern” division those champions played each other. They then were west of the Mississippi and played Ohio State, in Evansville. That was good stuff. I was a sophomore, and I was not a big contributor to that effort. Mostly I think that I was a spectator.
UNKNOWN: How many people would they tend to gain in those years?
TOIVO: The University of Oregon about eight or nine thousand. They still do the same thing. A lot of people.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Piippo when you got back from the war, how old was you?
TOIVO: I was 24. That is not the important part, when I came back I was all screwed-up. I was grounded I was a wreck. They called it “Battle Fatigue” at that time. Today they have “Post War Trauma”, I think’ and they talk about that. I have permanent “Post War Trauma”. It is suppose to be with you forever. It changes your personality and whatever. I went to two different hospitals for treatment for psycho stuff. They wanted to shot me full of penathoal. Make you go…bah, bah, bah. I refused, my wife said, “You should of, you should of”. She also says “It’s not too late”.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Piippo what would you like us to convey to young people today, uh something to remember World War II for.
JOYCE: Did you hear the question?
TOIVO: Good question. My point of view; we have a certain demeanor or quality I think that is kind of indestructible, and all that stuff. When you get into combat the shell that is shot is about that tall it was an 8mm shell, and it burst in a ball so to speak-a lethal a hundred yards in every direction. Shrapnel….metal flying through the air. When you are in your airplane psychologically you want to have your feet on the ground. Really. The first time your flying and one of these things explodes beside you; you’re sitting there and you can’t do a thing.
JOYCE: I am sorry you guys, I am going to have to interrupt.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Toivo Pippo Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Part of the CREHST 2003 Oral History public programming. Interviews filmed in front of a live audience.
Creator
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CREHST Museum
Publisher
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Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
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2003
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Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu.
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English
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RG2D_4A / T.2010.052.06
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F873f050a6ad41decdf752f410dd039b1.mp4
f75af59d332fd4a697fc84a0384c2767
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
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CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
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1999-2013
Rights
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All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
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English.
Identifier
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RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
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Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
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1943-1990
Provenance
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Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
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Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewee
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Eva Dunigan
Duration
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00:24:38
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317kpbs
Transcription
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ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TITLE: CREHST ORAL HISTORY -2003
INTERVIEW DATE: JULY 10, 2003
INTERVIEW LOCATION: UNKNOWN
INTERVIEWER: UNKNOWN
INTERVIEWED: EVA DUNIGAN
TRANSCRIBER: JUDY SIMPSON
LENGTH: 24:26 MINUTES
INTERVIEWER: This is Eva Dunigan. Did I say that right?
EVA: Yes. That is with one “n”.
INTERVIEWER: With one “n” that’s right.
INTERVIEWER: She came out of Kentucky many years ago. Her birthday is coming up the end of the month, so remember. Send a post card or something. She married Paul in 1942.
EVA: Don’t for get FX.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, FX? Who is FX?
EVA: Francis Xavier
INTERVIEWER: Francis Xavier, okay. They both worked at the University of Chicago, and if you guys are knew to their history a lot of the real center piece of Nuclear power the ideas came out of the University of Chicago with Enrico Fermi and Robert Oppenheimer. If I understand this right, you were able to work with these fellows, and cross paths with them.
EVA: Oh, yes I worked for them. I took dictation, typed-up their reports. So that they could send the reports out. In those days we had dittos and mimeographs we didn’t have any other way to do it.
INTERVIEWER: The other thing here is when later on just the when the work got going. You and your husband came on out here to Pasco.
EVA: We were transferred here. My husband was transferred by Dupont. Dupont didn’t transfer me they didn’t take me on until I got here. The day I got here I signed up with Dupont.
INTERVIEWER: Can you tell us what “Enrico Fermi”, what he was like? Are you guys’ familiar with Enrico Fermi? He was the one that did experiments, if I remember right, under the bleachers of University of Chicago as the first chain reaction.
EVA: Yea, right, that was Decent, I think that was David, in December 1943; it wasn’t “43”, and I don’t know I forgot the date. We were transferred there in the spring if “43” and we were there until December and then transferred out here. So we left Chicago, December 31, and every one in our apartment was all dressed-up for the New Years Eve party; except for us, we were dressed to go down to get on the Northern Pacific and come out here. We had studied up on the state of Washington and thought we were coming to the “Evergreen State”.
INTERVIEWER: So what did you think when you got here?
EVA: Well when we arrived in Pasco, actually the train stopped about, it seemed to me like about at Ethiopia. But I guess it wasn’t that far out, but it seemed like it at least, because we had to walk on the tracks for quite awhile until we got to the station. The Pullman cars were way back at the end, of course, like they are. There were a lot of other cars in front of us that had GI’s that were going to Fort Lewis. There were about six of the men being transferred out, and I was with them. A lot of gentlemen opened doors for me and stuff.
INTERVIEWER: So when you first stepped out of that train what was……..the?
EVA: It was in January, it was the middle of the night, and it was darker than I don’t know what. We then went into the….First of all, the smallest town I’d ever seen. The smallest town I’d ever lived in was Tulsa, OK, of course that’s not really small. When we got here I just thought it was nowhere. We walked on the ties and walked along the walk until we got to the station, and then we went in; there were real dim bulbs on the ceiling. All these people were in there, well I guess there in their work clothes, very un-kept though. They are sitting around and lying around sleeping, some of them even on the ground. It was kind of scary. They kept asking people if they were with the “operations” or “construction”. I happened to hear my husband say “He was with “operations”. So I said, “Operations! Operations!” because we had been separated. The reason they were doing that because they took these “panel cars” or whatever you want to call them, for the people on construction, and took them out to Hanford. We just went to the “Transit Quarters” which they called it then. They had just opened the week before one-way; the Hanford House now. So we did have some place to stay that day. It was still like I said, “So black you couldn’t see anything”. There was one traffic light in Pasco, and later I learned that it was at 4th and Lewis. That was about the only light we saw, because there were no lights on the bridge; although I could see the river down in the darkness. So, that was quite a different experience than anything I had ever had.
INTERVIEWER: Did you think most of the people knew what they were doing there? What was the point and what they were there for?
EVA: Well they knew what their job was, if that is what you mean. I don’t know what they knew. I knew what I knew, of course; we had the “office secrecy” we did not talk about it. So, I should not talk much about things I tell people. I was never released from that “office secrecy”.
INTERVIEWER: So may I interrupt you? So before you left you had to take an oath of secrecy?
EVA: Well, I went to work at the University, and I was with the “MedAllergic Laboratories” there, in the information office. That is were we got our reports and did our secretarial work for all these “PhD’s” and what have you. Also, they had the “Engineer” the “Army Engineers” you know like….what’s his name….
INTERVIEWER: General Groves?
EVA: Yeah, Yeah, General Groves. They had an office for them, and if their secretaries or whatever it was were ill, well one of us was called to work for then. So, I also worked for the General. I really called them by mostly “Gentleman General” or most of the other ones at the University we would call “Doctor”, because most of them were PhD‘s at least.
INTERVIEWER: So did you have opportunity to meet “Mr. Oppenheimer”?
EVA: Yes, I met him and Dr. Teller, Dr. Fraunk. I also, did work for them. I took dication for him. I happen to be able to understand a lot of accents. They were speaking English, but they had accents, but I grew-up with the people, a lot of people from Geremany. So I had grown-up with that, I didn‘t have a problem with that. I worked for a lot of them.
UNKNOWN: Because of question system, are you doing “Okay”?
EVA: Yeah, I’m doing okay.
INTERVIEWER: Living in this area, I have heard some stories about…..for recreation type things that people did around here. What was there to do?
EVA: Well I….We went to work (hah, hah) and so…the first week we had a room with a couple that lived in Kennewick. They had a duplex, a two bedroom duplex. We were in, we were staying with them and she, we had our, we were more fortunate than a lot people, because she had our meals there too; she cook and served our meals; and packed our lunches. Now our lunches were sort of strange and kind of different too. We might have: a bear sandwich; a deer sandwich; or a stuffing sandwich. That was the strangest that I have ever. You know homemade mayonise on some bread, and put some bread stuffing off the turkey, you know, and then put that in the white bread. I must admit that went in my waste basket. We were at 300 Area, of course there was really not……in Richland there was the cafeteria, big cafeteria, which was…well that building right across the street from the bank. We’d go in there in the morning and they had so many people, and they were cooking so fast. That you’d get a pancake and it was raw in the middle, but the outside was burned. The same with your egg…the outside of your egg would be almost black, and the inside would be just not cooked. I mean really raw not just a runny yoke, but the….That was not a happy time for our breakfast, that is why I said we were fortunate that we had our meals with them. So we were in there until our house was built, and we got a “B” House on Hunt. When we arrived they were digging basements, and then we go to move into the house, it was ready to live in in May. That was kind of different too.
UNKNOWN: What year was that?
EVA: Pardon.
UNKNOWN: What year was it?
EVA: 1944. May “44” is when we got into the house; like I said we were in Kennewick in a room there. I worked in “300” and then, of course, like I said I had been in information, in Chicago, so you would think I would go into information. In those days, it was working like them, like you worked for the people in army. You didn’t go in with your origin, you went into something completely different, and so I went into payroll. That was okay, I just knew how much everybody made then.
UNKNOWN: How did you like the winds? The dust storms.
EVA: I didn’t like those. I especially didn’t like it, sometimes when I lived on Hunt. Sometimes the buses would breakdown; the bus would breakdown I guess from the sand, I don’t know why. You would get on the bus to go home, and you would end up walking. So you’d walk home out George Washington Way, by the time I would get home….of course we wore skirts and nylons. I had nylons, because I got those in Oklahoma before we left. Anyway, that sand went right threw it. I’d get home and have little blood spots all over my: arms; face; legs; and nose. If I happened to get home first, I said “Don’t speak to me” until I get this washed off. We had a very quite time. As far as past-time there were all kinds of clubs starting and that sort of thing. Like I said though, “We were pretty busy because we did get to work a lot of overtime”. You had Sunday off, but not Sunday if you had to do your laundry, your house, to shovel out the sand.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have any children?
EVA: Ah, yes. I had one son. He works for the DOA, and his name is Paul FX Dunigan Jr.
INTERVIEWER: How was it with him growing up in Richland?
EVA: He likes Richland. Because he wanted to come back to see us after he got his degrees. He came back
INTERVIEWER: So when you got here were they just starting up the schools?
EVA: Well, we lived closer to Jefferson School. Jefferson School was going at the time we moved into
Richland. That is all we really knew about the school, because at that time I didn’t have nobody at school.
INTERVIEWER: After they dropped the bomb….did you. What was the sense, of the feeling of the people of the community? Was it dog low then? Or do you know?
EVA: Well I think people were excited they thought, well we finally know what’s going on. I new they were making something to blow stuff-up. I didn’t know when or how they were going to do it. Because I handling all those reports all the time. Even though I was in Payroll out here I still knew what we were working for. Yeah, that was very good. I was telling somebody awhile ago, after this gentleman talking. I got letters from my bother and his buddies who were in Japan. Their Company was getting ready to go into the main storage (inaudible), instead they got to go into occupation, and they went to school for about a year. None of them were getting killed, you know what I mean.
INTERVIEWER: So, so, after the mission was completed you guys must have decided to stay here or did you move away and come back…..or.
EVA: Oh, we stayed here. My husband like it, he was kept as an engineer, he liked to work. He changed companies though, you know what I mean. They were with Dupont and GE. He went on, and he was with Bechtel and then he was with Westinghouse. The last few years he had the same office with three different companies. He was out at “300 Area”.
INTERVIEWER: You guys have questions?
UNKNOWN: Did a lot of the people that you worked with did very many of them stay here? Did a lot of them move on and did not come back here that you know of?
EVA: The ones I worked with, you want to know where they are now or what did they do or what?
UNKNOWN: Well did some stay?
EVA: Some stayed a lot of them left, especially the girls, because they went back because their fiancés, husbands and so forth were out of the service and they had jobs where they had been. All the gentlemen I work for are dead and a lot of the other people too.
UNKNOWN: Were all the dams in the river when you came?
EVA: No, there was Bonneville.
UNKNOWN: There’s only one.
EVA: And then the one that is up that way on the…..
UNKNOWN: Grand, Grand the big Grand Coulie.
EVA: Coulie, yeah Coulie. The one at Wenatchee, I guess.
UNKNOWN: Oh, so the river was a lot different then.
EVA: The Snake did not have all those dams on it.
UNKNOWN: So the rivers were a lot different when you went down to them, and stuff I mean, as far as.
UNKNOWN: You were here in the Flood of “47”?
EVA: Yes I surly was.
UNKNOWN: And that was an exciting time, because we were all flooded in here.
EVA: Yeah, that was 1948, in fact the reason I know is because my son was born in June of 1948, and my mother-in-law was coming out from Boston. They had to go by way of Vernita to go all that way to get into the station to bring her out. Then some friends of ours did stay with us just before that. They had a room in Pasco they couldn’t get to work at the “200 Area” very easily everyday, so they stayed with us.
UNKNOWN: So, now what areas flooded?
EVA: Well the river was up here, it was up to where the hill is-up to George Washington. Is that what you mean?
UNKNOWN: Up, Up above the dike?
EVA: No the dike wasn’t there.
UNKNOWN: Okay, alright.
EVA: They put the dike up during the flood in fact. That’s why we didn’t get any top soil out on Davison where we live.
UNKNOWN: They couldn’t get across the Yakima River.
EVA: They couldn’t get across the Yakima and they couldn’t cross the Columbia into Kennewick either, remember?
NO RESPONSE.
EVA: The other year where the river was up pretty high well, down at the end of New Comer. We were living there, we just moved out of Davis house just before that. Well the river was up the other year just as it had been that year. And the road, the bike road was covered down there.
UNKNOWN: What exactly did they have your husband working on out there? What exactly was he doing?
EVA: He was a chemist. He was working on Alana Lab.
UNKNOWN: He was working on………..
EVA: Alana Lab.
UNKNOWN: And he was creating what…..what were they…..
EVA: We were not talking about that remember? Remember I told you.
UNKNOWN: I can push.
UNKNOWN: I heard that when you came into Richland you had to have security clearance just to be (not audible). Just too even go. (?)
EVA: We didn’t have to. Now we came in an old car, like an old pasture car, like I said the operation people got brought out here from the station to what is now the Hanford House. In pasture cars, but the people in construction were taken on out to Hanford. Well they were just trucks with some wooden seats put on it on each side of these great big trucks, and that is the way they came in. The reason I said we were fortunate that we got with this other couple in Kennewick, because at that time they had just opened some jobs in Richland for men but they didn’t have women’s jobs built yet, so I would have had to live in the jobs out of Hanford and then go into the “300 Area” and he would have lived in Richland. So that made it a little bit better, like I said I liked having my meals fixed, because I didn’t exactly care about cooking anyway.
INTERVIEWER: So, there was a big trailer park out there.
EVA: Oh, yes.
INTERVIEWER: Was that saved for construction?
EVA: That was construction families, yes.
INTERVIEWER: Did you intermingle a lot with mainly the construction people or the professional people more?
EVA: I didn’t, I really don’t know…..When we went through sign-up we had to go out there for some of or part of the sign-up for the x-rays and all that stupid stuff. That was really the only time I was out there. When I went through their employment stuff out there. Shortly after that they changed so then the room right next to us in the “3706 Building” was being used for most, except for the physical part. Then they moved into town before the year was up. When they got the “ADD Building” and that stood out where the Federal Building is now. We had offices there. We moved into there.
INTERVIEWER: Do you remember roughly what the payroll was and how many people were on it?
EVA: I don’t remember.
INTERVIEWER: There were thousands.
EVA: For construction, yes. For operations, I don’t think so. Also, they had monthly payroll and weekly payroll. I was in the weekly payroll, most of the time.
INTERVIEWER: If there was one thing that you would want to, say to our students and schools to remember (UNAUDIBLE), what do you think it would be?
EVA: I would like them to remember or hope that they would not have the same experience that we had. So many people were uprooted and unhappy. So many people broke up because of that. I knew so many of them where the wife, this was it, she just didn’t want to stay here. It was the end of the world; which it was. I was working it did not matter, I would rather work out here where my husband was than back in Chicago which I would have done if they had not let me come along.
UNKNOWN: How did you feel in the fact that there was no poverty here? Everybody had a job. Everything was getting completed; there was low rent; if you needed a lawn mower you come out and got it; you needed a garden hose you got it. There was no poverty out here what so ever and if you didn’t live here you didn’t have a job.
EVA: There was poverty in Pasco. I saw a lot of that. Yes, that was good, but I figured we had earned it, because after all they brought us to where there was nothing they had to get us something for us to stay.
INTERVIEWER: So would you be able to keep those items? So if you needed a lawn mower you’d …….
EVA: No, you just used it. The neighbors could use it or you had to take it back.
UNKNOWN: Are you kind of amazed that the way it was when you came; has turned into what it is now the Tri-Cities?
EVA: I’m glad it did.
UNKNOWN: Oh, yeah.
EVA: Well of course we were just going to be here, I mean that is what we were all told. This was just going to be here until the war was over. Well, I don’t know what war they meant, because we have had a war ever since. I ask them then and I still ask that question. Maybe someday when the wars are all over, uh.
INTERVIEWER: Were people relieved once they got here and relieved…..that?
EVA: Oh, yes. You have heard of the “Termination Winds” and usually toward the end of the week the winds would be really bad and we were really busy in payroll with their checks and bonds and their everything all… so they could get out of here.
UNKNOWN: Termination notices.
UNKNOWN: Noise can not understand question.
EVA: They were scary, especially like people like….transit men from Oklahoma where they went threw tornados all the time. They were thinking they were getting a tornado of course. They were scary too, because I had never been in those kinds of winds and have never had sand chew me up like I was telling you. We saw them in movies. My friend somehow got, I wrote and told them about this the tumbleweed rolling down the road and stuff like that. They thought I was just kidding. They thought I had seen to many westerns.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Eva Dunigan Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Part of the CREHST 2003 Oral History public programming. Interviews filmed in front of a live audience.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2003
Rights
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Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
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RG2D_4A / T.2010.052.06
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F8b04be0985a935c9e1a0cd36e2c0bf1e.mp4
b7a0a6ff3c846cf683f3690fd2b6fa08
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Renee Gackle
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Greg Greger
Location
The location of the interview
Richland Community Center
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TITLE: UNKNOWN
INTERVIEW DATE: JULY 10, 2003
INTERVIEW LOCATION: UNKNOWN
INTERVIEWER: RENEE GACKLE
INTERVIEWED: GREG GREGER
TRANSCRIBER: JUDY SIMPSON
LENGTH: 25.20
RENEE: Hi! We’ll open it up with a couple of questions in the beginning, and then we will open it up with you. If you have any particular question raise your hand or we will keep going.
GREG: One comment, we are competing with them. Please (inaudible-I think it is “please keep in mind I have a) hearing aid.
RENEE: Thank you. Some of the questions that they have given to me from just this sheet here, (inaudible- and get some juicy tidbits about you) and then get these people to talk to you. It says, “You were selected for an Army Special Training Program? Is that right? Will you tell us about that? I do not know anything about that. (Renee points to the audience and asks, “Do you?”.
GREG: The Army and I were into the war and really realized they needed technical trained people; really to protect themselves. So they felt (inaudible). We had to take very hard technical tests and I was fortunate enough to pass these tests. We were actually sent to (inaudible) experience this kind of. (The next 10 or more sentences or paragraph is very inaudible.) (Cameraman was being very noisy…talking making response inaudible. There was loud laughing in background. )
UNKNOWN: Renee, Renee, I can interrupt you as an old friend; you are going to have to speak up. Okay?
RENEE: (She asks a question but it is inaudible. Cameraman is speaking and can not hear question.)
GREG: At that time my brother had been drafted in the military (inaudible- possibly he had owned a flight or light plane) as a flyer. He is a flyer. (Very noisy filming sounds from camera inaudible.) Something about the 13th Airborne (inaudible) and then they decided “What we really need in the Army is the infantry - the infantry.
RENEE: (She asks a question but there is so much noise it is inaudible. The Cameraman is walking in and out of frame. The Cameraman is making a lot of noise with the camera; clacking and clinging.)
GREG: (He answers but it is inaudible because of much banging and clanging of the camera.)
RENEE: I don’t know a whole lot about that. (Many more sentences are inaudible.) Where and when (inaudible)?
GREG: When the ASTP was spent we were sent to various infantry divisions in the state for training; I was sent to the One hundred and third in farming conditions; which was in Haleyville, Texas, and this was a shock (inaudible-they got you a rifle) and had milk (inaudible) and all of a sudden we were an infantry. It was very serious, really serious. What this government would do is training young Private PFCs and then they would be sent away as replacement in Europe. Anyway that must have been “42” or “43” the whole division was sent to Camp Shags’; then aboard a transport luxury liner; “The Monticello” made to carry about a thousand people in peacetime. Thirteen thousand of us were shipped and we landed at Marseilles, France. (Next line is inaudible.) The frontlines were up and beyond that, so we were trucked into where the combat was. We relieved the 45th Division.
RENEE: I can tell that (inaudible). What were you thinking about (inaudible) was it a scary thing or…?
GREG: Well not at that point; I had some scary times of course; of course everybody does the first time, and a lot of fray point’s things that you are not used to. All in all, I was very fortunate.
RENEE: Did you actually participate in combat or…?
GREG: I belonged to “K” Company; we called ourselves “The K Company Commandos”, and we ended up with the most decorative company in the Regiment. As in most things, you have your worst day; the first day you know oh so little, and after that things get better.
RENEE: Does anyone else have a question that you might want..?
UNKNOWN: Did you see a lot of action?
GREG: Oh yes!
UNKNOWN: Yes.
GREG: Actually the German Army was pretty battered-up and it is funny the attitudes; the first prisoner we took, he was sat down with four people guarded him. Two months later we got used to things and things had changed. I have seen where whole companies or regiments were surrendering and we would just wave them back to the rear. We made sure they had no weapons. Sent them back and let the rear people take care of them. So things could change. It was certainly not the first line German Army such as it was in North Africa that we were up against. We ended up; we made quite a dent into Germany; we were past the national line the fifty-third; then in December when the break through, in the north, of “The Battle of the Bulge” we were rushed back to be in a holding position, but we were not actually in it, but we were close enough to see the artillery to the north. We were there over Christmas; then we pulled back and had to retake some of the area we had already taken.
RENEE: So about approximately how much time did you actually spend in the…when you were an Officer?
GREG: Three years.
RENEE: Three years.
GREG: I got out before most of my company that was interesting. When the War was over we were in occupational territory; this was pretty comfortable there were really not many duties and you were looking for things to pass your time. I was surprised, when my military service number was called-up to be; leave the company, go to the States for a furlough, and then go to Japan. There were others that joined me, but I was the only one from my company. Well the idea of a 40 day furlough sounded like it would be worthwhile. I never thought it would happen. I got to the shipping point in France, on the coast, when I came down one morning the Sergeant there in charge said “The news (inaudible) is the Bomb has been dropped.” That of course, would be, of course he used the word “Atomic Bomb”. I had enough physics to know that something new and complicated that I really didn’t know the details of. We went ahead, our group shipped out, although, we heard that we were the last ship that left. While we were in route to New York the second bombs dropped, and the war was over. So, instead of going to Japan we ended up in the States early and the war is over; so in a couple of months I go out. I then used the G.I. Bill to get a Degree from the University of Nebraska. I appreciate particularly well that is another story.
RENEE: So what did you do to have fun? You said that “You were passing the time in periods like this”.
GREG: Well you know it was a time of non-fractionation; you could not even talk to them a German. That relaxed and most towns had swimming pools; guys got up baseball games; you could go up and explore the countryside. Actually we ended up in Innsbrook which was a great place in the Alp Mountains. You could take a trolley from the end of the street, Main Street, right up to the resort. The resort had been reserved for us; so there was skiing there in June and July; because it was such an altitude gain. That is the one place in Europe I wouldn’t mind seeing again; the Innsbrook area.
RENEE: Can you think of how many countries that you actually visited; when you were stationed at?
GREG: France started in France into Germany and Austria. I might mention that what I have always enjoyed; is an unusual experience; the day we were told the War was over everything pretty much stopped. I had gotten the reputation of being a knowledgeable of photography, 35mm photography. I had taken my own camera with me; I had actually taken more than a thousand shot of various types of action. A man from another company knew I had some background in this; he came over with a jeep, we were doing nothing but waiting he said, “How about going with me to that town we just passed, a bigger town? We just went through the town. Nothing happened we just kept going. He said, “I would really like to get a missing part of my camera.” He had a Leica camera; which was a very good camera; it had no take up spool, and until he had it he really could not use it. (Inaudible there was too much laughing.) We went back to this town, that was an interesting experience, there were no troops in the town; American Troops; you would drive down the street, and look down the side streets you would occasionally see a German uniform, but they were trying to get out of sight. We could not find a camera shop, and finally we saw one building and he said, “Let’s try that one.” The reason he said that is sometimes when we would go through a town they would ask that all the guns would be collected at one place; often the County Seat or something like this. Anyhow, we knocked on this door of this rather elaborate building; well we went in to the main door and then went down this corridor; we heard voices in one room, so we knocked on the door and it was all of a sudden silent. Then we could hear somebody walking to the door, and it was opened and here was this long table with very dignified looking elderly people, in it, sitting on both sides. At the end was obliviously the Burger Meister; he had on a special uniform, with a big ban across show his prestige. We all stared at each other and he spoke to the woman, and she said, in English, in broken English, “Are you the people from your country, who have come to help us form our new government?” I was thinking “Wow! What have we got into?” before I could figure out a politically smart thing to say. My buddy said, “Do you know where I can get a piece for my camera?” She then more or less said to them, “They can’t help us.” She shut the door and we were out. I could image what she was saying, “Oh, their just souvenir hunters.” That was my big moment and I missed it.
RENEE: How did you get from (inaudible dropped the bomb) how did you get back to here? In the Richland area and get involved…with?
GREG: Well at the University of Nebraska; one of my good friends was an engineer and he ended up working at Hanford, like in the notes. So after I got my Degree and tried some professional photography work. I made the mistake of not being smart enough to examine a town before we committed ourselves there for awhile. We did this in a town in Colorado; Walsenburg, Colorado. Taking over a studio that someone else had started. Well we were not smart enough to recognize it was a mining town and only about half of the miners were working normally; so after a year we decided this is not where we want to spend out lives. We pulled our stakes and I drove out to Hanford here by myself. I checked in with my friend; who was working in radiation monitoring. He said “I know your background is in photography, but they are hiring monitors.” So I checked in and gave them my background. I had a funny thing happen to me there; they said, “When they were examining my photography credentials; you are over qualified for the one photography job we got; but we are hiring monitors, would you like to have that kind of job?” So I took it and I became a monitor.
RENEE: About how many years did you do that?
GREG: Well I was a monitor for three years and then I became a Supervisor in the monitoring. Then I got into Reactor Administration; I was a measurements person and then when they began closing them down. I got into data processing, and I ended up down at the “Senior Systems Analyst” cataloging the payroll savings plan and the pension plan, and all those things that have to work when you have a couple of thousand who depended on a check every two weeks.
RENEE: So what did you do with your pictures you guys took?
GREG: Well that is another side of it. I was in a position to keep the home address of all the people in the Company; so I made-up a set of 200 of the best of them, and offered them copies to all these guys. Can you imagine 200 pictures for $12? I sold about, my first $1000 worth of pictures. So that was my first money from photography I had really made. We are still in touch because many of those appreciated they did not have cameras and this is great for them to have.
RENEE: Is there any other questions that you have? Yes.
UNKNOWN: Where were you when Pearl Harbor was bombed? How did you find that out?
GREG: I was still home. I was at home. I was not yet in the service.
UNKNOWN: How did you find out about it?
GREG: Radio.
UNKNOWN: How did you feel about it?
GREG: Well our attitude was; they’re so foolish to do that. We did not realize, of course, that they had been building up their military for many years. (Inaudible-we were caught or difficult) I think that was an incentive to get in. I was on a ranch and it left my Father with very little help. Both my brothers and I had gone, but I felt like this is something we had to do.
UNKNOWN: When you were in Europe what kind of food supply system did they have for the troops?
GREG: What kind of a what?
UNKNOWN: What was the food? What did they give you to eat?
GREG: Well the kitchen would supply you if they could, but if, in the combat situation you had the K Rations. You know what they are… Don’t you?
UNKNOWN: No.
GREG: Well it was a couple of packages about this long and this thick, and in it you had one can of Spam; a couple of cookies; some toilet paper; some decaf, no it was powdered coffee. You could make coffee if you had water. That was the meal. There was a slightly better one if you were lucky enough to get it, we call them something else. You had two or three cans a little bit more. What would happen is if we were in reserve for a few days then the kitchen could reach us, and give us something better? A little incident about that I might mention; for the first time after we had been over there for several months; the kitchen we heard got fresh eggs. We thought “WOW” that is something we missed. So the next morning we really lined-up early. Do you know what they had done? They BOILED them! That kitchen crew came real close to being shot! The next day even the Captain got on their case, he said, “Tomorrow you are going to make for each person eggs the way they ask for them.” and they did!
UNKNOWN: How long were you in Europe now?
GREG: Let’s see, we landed at Marseilles in November and I got back in August of the next year.
UNKNOWN: November of which now? That was November of which year?
GREG: Well that would have been “44” and “45”.
UNKNOWN: “44” and “45” so you were right toward the end?
GREG: Yes the tail end, right. That certainly made a difference; the Germans had been heavily depleted. I had another little incident which I really haven’t resolved. When we were following the Germans; the troops over the Rhine River or to the Rhine River they had blown the bridge; even before some of the people had got off it. The rest of them there were in rafts. My company was ahead of me; they went across in rafts. When I came to the edge of the river I found an envelope there, which was unusual, and I stuck it in my pocket when I had time to look at it. It was a series of 13 pictures taken, obviously taken by a professional; a very high rated photographer because it was pictures of Hitler and his top staff; taken eight to ten feet away. The circumstances were a meeting with a Russian, I am sorry, with a Japanese General in a town in occupied Russia. There was German writing on the rear and I have their names; I had it translated. I am trying to think of the right use to make of this. I would like to see it published or make use of some particular fashion; I have not found the right source yet to do that. I have never heard of this meeting; I have tried things on the internet, but so far I have not had much luck in finding what kind of meeting that happened between the Japanese General and the German people.
UNKNOWN: So you do still have the pictures? Were you able to keep the pictures?
GREG: Yes. I still have them.
UNNKNOWN: Those are priceless.
RENEE: So how did you get; how did you relate all that with your craft of flint knapping? I understand your wife, and other things you, and Margaret do.
GREG: Well when I was still in a one room school, a country school, then we had about 8 pupils in 8 grades. The new (inaudible) I suppose I was in the 6th grade in the library which was one shelf this long. Was about a…it wasn’t a Native Indian, but a cave boy; the story of how he and his older brother had to make their tools or go to the tool maker; from the family would make stone points for them. That really stirred up my interest, however, where we lived there was no river near there; I looked all the time I was there. I only found one or two pieces of little rock that were of some Indian origin; now this was at the edge of the sand (hills or field) in Nebraska. I don’t know if any of you have been there are not. When I say sand I mean sand. When I was 4 or 5; I used to pickup and put into a special box any rock that was bigger than my little fingernail; twenty miles north it was all different. Entirely different on the Newbury River…but this is really sand. That is what you’re ranching in.
RENEE: We kind of have to wrap thing up. I just wanted to “thank you” (inaudible-loud clapping) share your life with us. We just really appreciate it. (Inaudible-loud clapping) I am sure that you could share with us some fascinating things.
GREG: Is there any other questions?
UNKNOWN: How did you meet your wife?
GREG: At the University of Nebraska.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:25:23
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Greg Greger Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Greg Greger as part of the Beverlin Summer Institute for Teachers held at the Richland Community Center.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Beverlin Summer Institute for Teachers
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
7/10/2003
Rights
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Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu.
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.mp4
Language
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English
Identifier
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RG1D_4A / T.2010.052.008
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https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fd364f6d0d1585c88248d2008d45d1d67.wma
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Michelle Gerber
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Dale Geer
Location
The location of the interview
Hanford Concerns Council
3311 West Clearwater Ave.
Suite D-200
Kennewick, WA 99336
Transcription
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N/A
Original Format
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.wma
Duration
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5 hours total.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Dale Geer Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
An account of the resource
A 5-part oral history done with Dale Geer for the Hanford Concerns Council. Given to the CREHST Museum in July 2007.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Concerns Council.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
7/23/2007
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu.
Format
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.wmv file
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG1D_4A / T.2007.006
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fbbf3dc586775f1c7753e5567306bf63b.mp4
8e590d3c17b06e0c9c433e7f64264265
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1999-2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
A language of the resource
English.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-1990
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.
Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Gary Fetterolf
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Steve Bickel
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TITLE: Bus-Train Transportation
INTERVIEW DATE: 1/23/10
INTERVIEW LOCATION: CREHST MUSEUM
INTERVIEWER: Gary Fetterolf
INTERVIEWED: Steve Bickel
TRANSCRIBER: Bob Clayton
GARY: This is an Oral History / Video History interview with Steve Bickel 724 North Volland Street Kennewick, WA and F. Gary Fetterolf as interviewer. Steve you came up in the transportation department and I’d like start you out with just a little bit about how you came here, your personal history, your service time, whatever you feel comfortable with there.
STEVE: Well I hired on at Hanford in March of 1976 March 9th Back in June I believe they had a strike it lasted all summer for 3 ½ months. So I got here just in time for the strike and I worked on the railroad as what they called a gandy dancer working with the track crew until after the strike. Soon there after I went to the bus lot in transportation. In those days it was called Bus and Railroad Operations. Then I started driving bus and very shortly after that I was asked by one of the supervisors if I would be interested in taking a supervisory position. Which I promptly said no. So he made me a lead and had me doing the job anyway so I thought well I’m doing the job I might as well take the extra pay which would be an incentive. So that’s what I did. I was a bus dispatcher / railroad dispatcher and when one of the railroad dispatchers retired I took his position for approximately 6 years. Dispatching the railroad which was quite fun. It was probably my best years of employment at Hanford. And after that I got promoted to mid-management. Calvin Seally and I ran the Bus and Railroad Operations day to day business. I did that up until just before the bus lot shut down and I transferred out to Crane and Rigging. And then from Crane and Rigging I went to K-Basin and then from K-Basin I went to Ground Water which I’m currently at right now and that’s pretty much of a history of me at the Hanford site. I’ve been all over for a number of years.
GARY: Ok could you give us a history of the transportation division as far as you know it and start in whenever you want back in the forties or when you came in. And if you’ll hold those photographs up as you go along. First of all you might start a little bit farther back than those photographs start.
STEVE: Well originally the original bus lot was a little further down Stevens toward the southern part of Richland. In those days it was considered north Richland. What we considered north Richland hadn’t been built yet. It was down there. There’s a little bus station right across from the school grounds that used to be the location of the original bus lot. That was just a Quonset hut and that’s where all the buses left from.
GARY: It was across from Chief Joseph wasn’t it?
STEVE: Correct. They built what they call the new bus lot in 1954 and that’s where it’s currently located now. Although it’s not a bus lot anymore the skeleton is still there. And that’s what this represents. (Holds up photograph) This photograph here they had a leveled off asphalted lot. They put a bunch of pipes in it for the busses to come down. Next to that on the bus door side they had additional pipes to keep passengers and buses from intermingling. So that’s a picture of the buses being loaded.
GARY: Those are the Flexible buses not the original ones.
STEVE: That’s correct. During this time we had both GM and Flexible buses that were operating. These were considered the new bus and these were a 1966 Flexible. The GM was 1956. Somewhere in the early to mid ‘50s. But those are the ones that we were most proud of. None of them had power steering. None of them had air conditioning. They didn’t have any of the luxuries. They were the size of an over the road bus but they had all the amenities of a city bus. They had the bench seats. They carried 53 passengers.
GARY: I know when we got those buses they were the latest and greatest and they were really nice buses. We were really happy with them.
STEVE: Oh yeah. The heating was kind of sparse in the older ones. The Flexibles had a much better heating system in them.
GARY: Can you describe what happened when the ball joints on those older buses got worn? When you hit a bump or something.
STEVE: You handled them pretty much with a lot of upper body strength. They weren’t the easiest to drive. Like I said there was no power steering. You actually had to be rolling to get the steering wheel to turn unless you were a weight lifter or something. We literally put our foot on the dash and started pulling on the steering wheel like it was rope to get them to turn. It was interesting.
GARY: Those are large steering wheels too.
STEVE: Yes very large. And some of them had a lot slack in them so you had to be pretty aware. But after you take the same route year after year after year you get to know the bumps in the road and you get to know the routes pretty good. And the passengers by the way. There was a lot card games going on. When I hired on in like I said in ‘76 there was a grand total of 6,000 employees on the entire site and we had all the reactors running. We didn’t know everybody by name but we certainly knew each other by sight. (Holding up a photograph) This is just a broader picture of the same area. It shows how many buses could be lined up. Each one of those lanes had a sign on it. The signage had for you know 100-F, 100-N, 100-K and the different shifts. We had a sign up next to the building that would show what shift was going because we had people that rotated from facilities and they would need to know what shift was going to what area.
GARY: That was one of my questions was to what that sign meant. It was for the 100 areas I know for outage crews.
STEVE: Right. And during the outages we would send crews to specific locations whether it would be F or H or K or even D and we’d have the crews report there. And this is just a narrower picture of the same bus lot. It was quite interesting. As you can see there’s not a whole lot of room between the edges of the buses. I think we had less than a foot on each side. So making the turns to come into those lanes and the lanes got worn it was interesting to keep the buses and the railing from meeting. And of course in these days passengers had to walk from the parking lot which was over here down in front of the buses to get in their lane. As a bus driver you had to be very cognizant of the foot traffic before you went on your appointed run. This is a picture of day shift at the bus lot. You couldn’t capture all the people of course because there was a little over 200 employees working at the bus operations when this picture was taken. So this is day shift. And it was in celebration of some goal that we had set for ourselves and achieved. Probably a million man hours or a million miles safely. I don’t recall. The individual is shown here holding a certificate so I know it’s for some kind of ceremony. I’m in there somewhere I just have located myself yet. Some of the big players were over here. Leona Robinson who was the head of Bus and Railroad Operations for a number of years. So we had to have good management support in those days. And then of course like I told you about the passengers walking in front of the busses. We thought that wasn’t the safest way to do business. There was a lot of near misses over the years. We designed a new bus lot when we had to repair the old one. We took out all the poles and the pipes and leveled the ground out. Took up all the asphalt and then repaved it. We decided after going to all that effort we didn’t want to put the poles back in and have the same hazards we had been dealing with the 40 years previously. We redesigned it and this is a picture of the grand opening of our redesigned bus lot with our new busses which were MCIs which replaced the Flexibles and the Eagles. Well we still had some Eagles but they were being run down, This is a larger picture of the same ceremony. And we were also instrumental during the last days of the bus operations of course none of us knew it was the last days at the time but we were instrumental in getting contracts with Ben Franklin to help some of our employees and some of our less-abled employees to get back and forth to work. In accordance with the new ADA laws which were brand new in those days we had some vehicles we purchased and then some that Ben Franklin purchased as well to adequately get our employees to and from their work locations. And that was the beginning of the end for the bus lot. And this is a picture of those vehicles that we were so proud of at the time. And then we had purchased a whole new fleet of MCIs that we had specially refurbished for us. I have a couple of pictures of those as well. This is the same picture at a different angle.
GARY: I remember those old Eagles and their squeaky brakes.
STEVE: That was the Eagles yeah. We had a lot of complaints on that from routes. We would start so early in the morning picking up our employees that people weren’t getting their sleep. We got a lot of complaints. As a matter of fact there is a kind of interesting story about that. We were working for Rockwell had the main contract out and they were the makers of the brakes as well.
GARY: I remember a lot of stories cursing Rockwell because of those brakes.
STEVE: Right. Rockwell one of their sub contractor one of their sub divisions was the builder of the brakes. They got a lot of bad press over that.
GARY: Also the air conditioning didn’t work very well.
STEVE: The air conditioning would work sparsely. It would work. And then if it didn’t work there was no way to roll the windows down.
GARY: Yeah that was really a problem.
STEVE: We had those little hatch windows at the top. That didn’t adequately flow air. There was a lot of complaints about that as well especially in August. But these new buses that we got they had back up systems. I don’t know of a single failure on the air conditioning with those. They were a good bus. Of course we didn’t operate them long. From the time we finished the new bus lot until we closed was about 9 months. Broke a lot of hearts. A lot of people had a lot of history there. A lot more than me. I had 20 years there. There was a lot of people that had more than that.
GARY: It was also very very convenient. As a rider I was always the rider not the driver. And it was very convenient to catch a bus half a block from my house and ride all the way to work.
STEVE: It was very good service. We had very good service. We had a number of schedules. We had 28 reporting shifts just at the bus lot. To adequately take people to and from their job assignments and shifts that they were working.
GARY: Before we get into the rail one of the questions I had was about the shift pick ups. How many buses actually went per route? You start out picking up the drivers.
STEVE: Correct we had a driver’s shuttle.
GARY: Then your patrol. Where do you go from there? 100 area first. Pick up about 5 or 10 minutes before the 200 areas.
STEVE: Yeah you’re right. But actually it depends on the time frame you’re talking about because when I first started there all the shifts were manned at all the areas and shortly there after in the early ’80s we shut down all the reactors. So there wasn’t as many people. So we cut back on buses. I think what most people remember in the time frame is going to be mid ’80s. And I think we had something like 9 buses going to 100-N because 100-N was still going. Up until Chernobyl. And I believe we had 2 buses going to D area. I think we had 1 bus only going to K. It all depended on the passenger count. On the driver’s run there was a couple of them we had a lot of drivers living on the Stevens shuttle. So we had a bus take the Stevens shuttle for the drivers. We had vans go the other routes to pick up drivers. And we didn’t run the whole route for drivers. We knew where they were and we’d pick them up on the corner.
GARY: I remember I live right across the street from where Herman Meyers lived so I can remember the vans coming by and picking him up.
STEVE: Right we just made a route to the drivers. It was easier that way because we only had 6 or 8 per route. So we started using vans there towards the end. Patrol as well. Patrol it was kind of depending on what shift it was and how heavily manned it was. We got down to where there was only 1 patrol bus. In the very end we only had 1 patrol bus and it would hit all the areas between east and west of the headquarters. And that was it.
GARY: I started riding a bus in the 1970s and at that point we had express buses going out to various plants within 200 east and 200 west. And those would not even go into the bus lot. Usually the express buses people knew which buses they were and they would park their cars in a parking lot or something to catch that express bus so they wouldn’t have to go through the bus lot. They would get out a few minutes earlier. And get in a few minutes earlier. I think getting in a few minutes earlier was probably more important than getting out.
STEVE: That’s right back in the ’70s we had at least 1 express bus for each area. I think we had 2 for 100-N because 100-N was the largest passenger express that we had. We couldn’t do it in 1. But yeah you’re right. I remember that as well. We also had express buses from the bus lot itself. We had that express lane. And that express lane was going out to it wouldn’t go around the inside of the site. It just went to a particular location like I think we had one for PUREX and Dash-5 and 100-N that went right there and it didn’t go any place else. A lot of different routes. That all changed when 8 nines came about. I don’t know if you recall 8 nines but in the later ’80s Calvin Seally and I put together a schedule for an 8 nines shift which was kind of interesting because we didn’t get a whole lot of extra resources but we had to utilize the resources we already had. Put in an entirely different shift.
GARY: I have a photograph or a slide somewhere of the last bus leaving PFP and going up the hill to that railroad crossing and stopping. I got a shot of it about the time it got to the railroad crossing. I deliberately brought my camera out which meant I had to bring my car out because I was working in an area where I couldn’t take my camera into work.
STEVE: Right in those days they were really strict.
GARY: But I could leave it in the car. So I left it in out in a nice hot car and got the shot that night.
STEVE: We used to have to stop at all the railroad crossings. And the bus drivers used to complain that they would go on vacation and they would stop at all the railroad crossings without even thinking. Because they were so used to stopping at all railroad crossings.
GARY: Let’s go into rail a little bit.
STEVE: Well unfortunately even though I was a railroad dispatcher for quite some time I don’t have a whole lot of pictures that I can find so far. This one I have has some importance because this was 50 years without a loss time injury for the railroad. So from the time of conception of the railroad out here right up to this photograph here. They had had no loss time injury at all. On both the railroad and track maintenance. Which is incredible. It’s an incredible record. I don’t think any railroad in the world can boast about a term that long with no loss time injuries. So they got all the big shots together and invited me as well and took this photograph inside the 1171 railroad shop. I kept it and got it laminated because I was pretty proud of that achievement. We all worked well together. It was a pretty cohesive crew. Got a lot of good work done. Moved a lot of materials over a number of years.
GARY: Now from what I understand a rail between the reactors and the spent fuel processing plants was made to the highest standards of rail.
STEVE: We maintained a standard for the track crew did an excellent job keeping our tracks in an operable condition. Even with the schedule we had. Even when we were moving fuel at the highest levels we always kept our schedule. And track maintenance worked around our schedule. It’s really incredible that they did such a good job. They always came through and got the track back in service before we had to get on and use it. They did an excellent job.
GARY: I read somewhere that there were 7000 cars of coal annually that was brought out to the areas. That was probably in the hay day. You’re probably too late for the around town type buses as opposed to the ones going out to the areas. Early on they had shuttle buses around the city of Richland.
STEVE: Yeah that was in the ’70s and ’80s.
GARY: I’m not talking about the ones going out to the plant. These were just going around town.
STEVE: That is before my time. The daily bus service. They also had them in Kennewick. Actually they 2 buses going to downtown Kennewick to pick up employees and take them out to Hanford too. That was before my time. And Yakima they went to Yakima as well.
GARY: Milwaukee. The Milwaukee maintained the roadbed beyond riverland yard. Is that correct?
STEVE: Yes that was up behind 100-N area. Actually it’s behind B area but most people don’t know what B area is.
GARY: Do you know when Northern Pacific was granted trackage rights on the south end of the site?
STEVE: No that was before my time as well. That was sometime I believe in the early ’70s late ’60s early ’70s.
GARY: Also a question about real old times Have you heard when Northern Pacific used to drop off at the yard before they got the trackage rights. They used to drop everything off at the yard in 1100 area. Do you know when that rail started being Northern Pacific and UP started having access to the rail yard there?
STEVE: No I really don’t recall. But I remember both of those bringing us coal from different parts of the country. And it was actually before my time when they were in the riverland yard they were dropping off cars and we’d go out there. We had a substantial yard out there. And they would drop them off at night and we’d go pick them up in the morning and deliver them. Whatever supplies they were gasses and chemicals and coal. Yeah that was before my time. I was also a weight master. To be a rail dispatcher in those days you had to be a weight master. So you would weight all the coal coming in.
GARY: I remember the gauntlet tracks down here. Did they have similar tracks out at the riverland yard?
STEVE: Yes they sure did. Out there by midway. Quite the process.
GARY: Take your engine on the track where it doesn’t go over the scales and then your cars that you’re weighing on the track that goes over the scales.
STEVE: You know it’s really unfortunate now I think back on it. We had log books. Railroad dispatchers historically have had to keep log books. So we had to keep log books on everything that came in and went out. We had log books there from day one in the store room next to the office. So I had access to all that information and all that history but unfortunately you know you are getting paid to do a job. You don’t have time to set back there and reminisce over what has taken place in the past unless you had an objective. There’s some people that you probably ought to talk to that have a whole lot more history than I do that are still around.
GARY: Overtime rights.
STEVE: Oh yeah overtime rights. That was our biggest business as a bus dispatcher. You know everything that’s scheduled is kind of routine. You have a set schedule and you just follow that schedule and it’s pretty mundane. However the overtime rides is where you get some excitement because people are calling from every site and every office building there is on site scheduling overtime rides home and you have limited number of vehicles and drivers and times to take people home. That was where a dispatcher earned his pay. You had to juggle if you had a van going to Yakima you didn’t want 6 people calling from 6 different places going to Yakima. You’d have to schedule them being picked up by one vehicle to take them all at once. So it was quite challenging. You had to really keep your thinking cap on. And then when the person delivered his last passenger in Yakima you had to have it in the back of your mind where you were going to send him next to pick up the next ride. So it was challenging. It was fun but it was challenging.
GARY: I remember in the later days especially if you had someone for instance going to Prosser maybe or Sunnyside or Grandview 2 or 3 people you’d slap all of those in one van. Everybody always used to hate having people ride the van or the car the sedan or whatever home because a lot of times you’d have to go to one town and then the other town. And it’s only about 4 hours before you’re getting ready to go back out to the site again. You only have about 4 to 6 hours to sleep there before you have to get back and get going. The sooner you got home the happier you were.
STEVE: We got a lot of complaints. Unfortunately most people it wasn’t their job so they didn’t need to think about the logistics of it. We were taking people to Moses Lake and Selah and Moxie and clear up by Jump Off Joe and…what’s the name of that restaurant up there on White Pass. Whistlin Jacks we’d even take people out to Whistlin Jacks. So when you had someone going to Whistlin Jacks you had to get somebody who was going to Moxie or Yakima or some place to go with them. Otherwise we’d run out of drivers taken people singly, and then you know you complained about the 4 hours turn around. You wouldn’t get home. We had a limited number of drivers and we had to get everybody taken care of. I think overall we did an excellent job. We really did.
GARY: Someone mentioned there was even someone who lived in Wenatchee. That’s amazing.
STEVE: A lot of times we’d combine Richland Kennewick and Pasco. We tried not to do that because the cities are so diverse. You could be 45 minutes in one city trying to locate a couple of different homes to drop 2 employees off. So we tried not to do that but sometimes we were forced to.
GARY: It takes me right now…my son and daughter-in-law and their family live in south Kennewick and it takes me over a half hour to get to their house from Richland.
STEVE: The dynamics have changed quite a bit since the early ’90s. There’s a lot more traffic here and a lot more traffic lights. And we’ve got circles I don’t think the buses would make it through. It would be a different ball game now.
GARY: Do you remember the bus accident that happened in the ’70s?
STEVE: Oh yes sir. I was on shift when that happened. That was really bad.
GARY: I was scheduled to ride that bus out. And my usual seat partner since I wasn’t there nobody happened to sit in the seat next to him and he was essentially loose in the seat. And when that happened he flew clear across the bus hit the far side of the bus and then bounced back into the isle way just in time to be hit by another person coming down on top of him. He suffered some internal injuries but other than that he didn’t suffer any broken bones. One of the passengers at least had a broken pelvis. The bus driver didn’t come out of it too good either.
STEVE: No actually there was no deaths and that was amazing. That was a tanker a semi truck tanker that had just off loaded at 100-N and was coming back and didn’t see the light change and actually ran the red light. The bus driver had the green and the right of way.
GARY: Yeah and he was the second bus too.
STEVE: Right and actually it was really a blessing that it happened the way it did. That truck hit the front axel square on. If that truck had hit a couple of seconds later it would have gone right trough the bus. That bus would have been folded over like a pretzel. So it was actually fortunate the way it happened.
GARY: I happened to pass the accident on my way out there.
STEVE: Yeah that wasn’t one of my better days. That was a hard day. People started jumping out of the bus. I was out there trying to get them calmed down to keep them from jumping out of the windows because I was afraid that there would be more injuries. There was an emergency exit on that bus in the back. I got people set up there to help them down. The impact was in the front of the bus so of course the normal exit door was blocked with people on top of people. It was pretty…I’ll never forget that ever. Pretty traumatic.
GARY: That was a bad accident. Now this driver was a vendor? In other words he was coming out from private… he wasn’t one of the government drivers?
STEVE: No it was a truck and trailer a big heavy rig. And they estimated his speed at about 60. I believe he fell asleep at the wheel but I’ll never know…we’ll never know. But he was ok too. Yeah he came through it ok. The speed limit was 35. And they had no skid marks to measure but with the impact I was told that they estimated his speed at about 60. So it could have been lots worse.
GARY: That’s about all the questions I had. Do you have any other comments you want to add?
STEVE: Well just you know it’s history now and it wasn’t all fun and games but it was a real memorable enjoyable part of my life. I did a lot of things that I’m very proud of. I worked with a lot of brilliant people. It was really a pleasure. I really enjoyed it for the most part. There was days like that one you just mentioned that wasn’t very good but for the most part it was a very enjoyable memorable part of my life.
GARY: Ok well thanks a lot Steve.
STEVE: You’re welcome thanks for having me.
Duration
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0:32:31
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Steve Bickel
Subject
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Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Bus Travel
Description
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Oral History of work as a bus driver on the Hanford Site.
Creator
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CREHST
Publisher
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Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
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1/30/2010
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.mp4
Language
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English
Identifier
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RG1D_4A Series 1
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F2bd5d807b3c32f7431ca815aac9f9878.mp4
c8a88ee33322fb73eca55b4ef818a1dc
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F6fb09eff3c6ac1b74a14b435f85a38dd.pdf
09e8c888d3ef7cacd14f3698295dadcd
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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CREHST Museum Oral Histories
Subject
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Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
An account of the resource
Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
Creator
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CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
Date
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1999-2013
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All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
Language
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English.
Identifier
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RG2-4A
Spatial Coverage
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Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Temporal Coverage
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1943-1990
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Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
Rights Holder
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Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Todd Kenning
Interviewee
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William J. Bair
Location
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CREHST
Transcription
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CREHST Oral History Project
TITLE: Dr. Bair Comment
INTERVIEW DATE: October 25, 2004
INTERVIEW LOCATION: CREHST
INTERVIEWER: Todd Kenning
INTERVIEWED: William J. Bair
TRANSCRIBER: Robert Clayton
Dr. Bair was a pioneer in the field of health physics. He was employed at Hanford beginning in the era when GE was the prime contractor. He did innovative research on the effects of radiation using animal models.
DR. BAIR: I was born in Jackson, Michigan 80 years ago. Lived most of my early life in Ohio. I was drafted in to the Army in 1943. Prior to that for a few months after I got out of high school I worked on the railroad as a machinist in the roundhouse. So that was a good experience because I knew I wasn’t going to do that for the rest of my life. But anyway I was drafted in ’43 and served in the infantry for 3 years in combat in Europe. I was in Czechoslovakia at the end of the war in Europe. And then my division was shipped to the Pacific for the invasion of Japan. Of course by the time we got there the bombs had been dropped and I stayed as part of the Army of Occupation for I guess maybe up to 6 months. I think it’s ironic that the bomb of course one of them was fueled with plutonium saved my life. I talked to Glenn Seaborg about that on a couple of occasions because he had a nephew that said the same thing. But anyway it’s ironic that I ended up out here at Hanford doing most of my research on plutonium. The health effects of plutonium.
KENNING: And what year did you come out? Where did you get your schooling?
DR> BAIR: After I got back from the Army in ’46 I went to Ohio-Wesleyan University and got a bachelor’s degree in chemistry. And then I got a fellowship a National Academy of Sciences fellowship in Radiological Physics at the University of Rochester in Rochester, New York. That first year it’s what we call Health Physics now. They didn’t have that term or use that term at that time. And at the end of the first year I was asked by Newell Stannert a professor there if I would stay on as a graduate student. And I did that with the idea that I would do my research in radiation biology. The biological effects of radiation. But at that time they had no degree program so I was in the Department of Physiology for a year until they got that program established. I finished my PhD in 1954 and I received the first PhD in Radiation Biology in the world. That’s my one claim to fame. Incidentally my professor Newell Stannert he’s about 94 now and still alive in San Diego. I gave a lecture this last spring in his honor down in California. But then after I graduated and got my degree in ’54 I looked around for a place. I had options at Yale, Oak Ridge, Tennessee, and out here. My wife and I decided we’d try the west. And they offered more money too, which was a big factor. But anyway we came out in 1954. I came out to do research at the cellular level. And within 2 years I was working on the effects of breathing radioactive material because at that time there were concerns about workers being exposed to plutonium, ruthenium, and other aerosols in the workplace. Also at that time there were ruthenium particles being dispersed in the plant environment out here. Most of them were large enough that you could actually pick them up. But they were still concerned about the people actually breathing them. Anyway that’s how I began to get into the inhalation area. I served in that position until about 1960 so that was about 14 years 15 years.
TODD: So that was the?
DR. BAIR: Inhalation of radioactive materials.
TODD: Did the program have a title?
DR. BAIR: Not specifically. It was the Inhalation of Radioactive Materials.
TODD: And the department you were working for?
DR. BAIR: I was in the Biology Department.
TODD: The Biology Department for the Department of Energy?
DR. BAIR: No no no this was back in the days of the Atomic Energy Commission.
TODD: Right oh ok still AEC.
DR. BAIR: Right. Now the Biology Department I should say something about the Biology Department. When the plant started up out here the management brought in Herb Parker from Oak Ridge. Herb Parker had been out in Seattle. He was an Englishman from Manchester but he had been at Swedish Hospital. When the atomic energy business got started they hired him to go back to Oak Ridge to start a program to look after the health of the workers. They knew nothing about radiation protection in those days. I shouldn’t say that because they did have some experience with radium and other things but certainly this was a totally new ball game. When the aspect or prospect of making plutonium and other radioactive materials was totally new. So they brought Herb in to organize a radiation protection program, a health protection program, at Oak Ridge. And he did that. Actually he really started the whole field of Health Physics. Then when Hanford began operations out here they asked him to come out here and essentially set up the same program. One of the first things he did was to hire Dick Foster, a PhD from the University of Washington in the fisheries department, to come over and set up a research program to monitor and study the potential effects of the operations here on the salmon and other aquatic life. Then they also began shortly after that to look at the other aspects of the environment. The terrestrial environment…the whole ball of works. I mean what was going to be the impact of this plant on this whole area?
TODD: What was the time frame when they started doing this?
DR. BAIR: They started doing this shortly after he arrived and I can’t tell you the exact date. I think I could find the date for you.
TODD: But approximately what year?
DR. BAIR: It was approximately 1953. Oh whoops I’m off by 10 years about ‘43/’44. Anyway one of the groups that they began to set up was one to look at health effects. And this was when they hired Harry Konanberg. I think he might actually have been at Oak Ridge too to come out and get started this biology department. Initially this whole operation was in the same group as the medical people, which was headed by Dag Norwood. Dag Norwood was one of the first persons to really develop a very effective a health surveillance program for workers in the atomic field. Of course he died a number of years ago but his legacy is still out here in the Hanford Environmental Health Foundation. But anyway shortly after that time probably around 1947 I suppose ’48 maybe even earlier they split off separated the biology environmental work from the medical. And they also at the same time separated out the health physics- the routine monitoring of workers and the film badges and all that kind of work they separated that out.
TODD: Ok when you came here in 1954 if you could tell us what your work was and kind of what it was like around here in ’54.
DR. BAIR: When I arrived in ’54. First I’ll tell you a little bit about the biology department that I joined. The main effort of the biology department had been was still looking at the potential effects of radioiodine. And they had a large herd of sheep that they were working with. Dr. Leo Bustad who eventually became dean of the Veterinary School at Washington State University was in charge of that program. They also had a herd of miniature pigs. And they also developed a strain of white pigs because they were interested in looking at the potential effects of these particles these so called “Hot” particles ruthenium particles on the skin.
TODD: What was the name of these particles?
DR. BAIR: Hot particles. That’s where that term originated. In this case they were particles of radioactive ruthenium. And these were crystalline materials crystalline particles that had been released from the separations stacks. So they were out in the environment. So one of the points they were looking at was what the potential hazard of those particles were when they fell on people’s skin. So they used pigs to do that.
TODD: And the white pigs were?
DR. BAIR: Good animals for that. They used the miniature pigs then for studies similar to what they had done for sheep. Miniature pigs were good because they took up a lot less space and they ate a lot less food. They were a good experimental animal and I think some descendants of that herd they developed out here are still being used in the pharmaceutical industry and other places. At least we sold some to some of those companies from the private Battelle herd. Anyway the emphasis there in the animal area was on the hot particles and the iodine. We were beginning to get interested in plutonium because there was a potential for people being exposed at the plant of course. The environmental people were going out and collecting samples from the field. Wayne Hanson, Bob Genoway was another one. They would get on a big Dodge pickup like vehicle they had a seat mounted up there and they would go out shooting jackrabbits. I have photographs of some of that. So they collected samples that way to see if any radioactive material was being picked up by those animals. Essentially monitoring the environment that way. They also had plant studies going on to try to determine whether the radioactive material if any of it that was released was causing any or would cause any problem with plant growth. Before I arrived back in the ‘40’s they had a farm across the river over at Ringgold that they farmed. They did that over there because it was far enough away from the site that it would not be contaminated. So they did some studies over there. So the biology program was pretty extensive when I arrived. The river problem was actually chromium because they used chromium in the cooling water to prevent to reduce corrosion in the reactor. So they were concerned about chromium toxicity in the aquatic in particularly in the salmon. A lot of work was done on that. There was a small group looking at fairly basic kinds of effects and that’s the group I was hired into. My boss was Frank Hungate who is no longer here. He’s in Seattle. I looked at microorganisms looking at potential genetic effects of radioactive materials. We were interested primarily in whether when you have a radioactive material when it decays it becomes another element. Sulfur-35 becomes a chlorine. So if you have radioactive sulfur in a biological molecule and all of a sudden becomes chlorine what happens? Could that trigger a mutation? So that was the first thing I actually worked on.
TODD: Excuse me sir. In microorganisms? What particular?
DR. BAIR: Ecoli was one of them and we used various yeast. Anyway our objective was to determine was that particular mechanism was the potential for causing mutations. We had some results that weren’t all that exciting.
TODD: That’s typical science isn’t it?
DR. BAIR: Oh yeah that’s right. And I don’t think anyone is looking at that area now. But after I had been there 2 years the man who had been hired. He was a physician. Ralph Waggert had been hired to develop a program looking at potential effects of breathing radioactive materials. He was working with 2 people: Lewis Temple his son is actually a physician here in town Edward Temple. Another one was Don Willard and another one was Victor Smith. And Victor Smith lives in Kennewick and Don Willard lives in Kennewick also. Ralph Waggert died suddenly and I was selected, elected, drafted or whatever to take over responsibility for that program. The reason I was asked to do it the University of Rochester had led the field in developing the technology for studying radioactive materials in the air radioactive aerosols. They had the aerosol technology program there. They began to do the studies. They were really leading the field. Primarily in uranium. A lot of uranium was being used in those days for the weapons program of course. And a lot of that dust was spread around in those big plants out here, in Oak Ridge, and other places. So the University of Rochester had this large program going on to study the toxicology of uranium. So since I was at Rochester some of that had to have rubbed off on me. I was supposed to have absorbed some of that. Well I had some classes.
TODD: Well it was so brand new the whole concept.
DR. BAIR: Well true. But anyway I was drafted to take responsibility for that program. And I learned a lot. I learned a lot from Lew Temple and Don Willard and the people who were already working in it. But we found from some of our first studies we actually were the first to prove that if you gave animals enough plutonium in the repertory tract if they inhaled enough you could eventually get some cancers. And I have to tell you that the idea that you can easily produce cancers, lung cancers, by inhaling plutonium is wrong. It was a long trial and error period to get just exactly the right dose. You could give them enough plutonium that the radioactivity would actually damage the lungs so severely that it would kill the animal. And of course if the animal died in a month or two months it wouldn’t live long enough to demonstrate a cancer. So we had to work hard to develop techniques that would really show if plutonium would cause a cancer. And we did finally find that you could give enough but not too much that you would begin to find a few lung cancers in mice and rats. I think probably the most important study along that line was with dogs. And this was, you asked about dogs earlier. At this time it was kind of rare for us to do work for other agencies we were working for the Atomic Energy Commission. But the Air Force was interested in the effects of plutonium because they were carrying bombs with plutonium in them. They asked us to do a study looking at the effects of being exposed to large amounts of plutonium aerosols. So we did that and we had a few dogs on the lower dose end that lived you know 2 years. And so we just we kept them.
TODD: What kind of dogs were they?
DR. BAIR: Beagles. Now we chose beagles because back in Cornell I was a graduate student. Cornell University had developed a beagle colony. They were looking for an animal species that would be useful for relating to potential human effects and I don’t even know what they were studying at the time. But they found that the beagle was a very good animal for this purpose. So they developed background information on beagle dogs. And that helped us because we didn’t have to do a lot of that it was already done. So we selected the beagle dogs for that study. We bought from licensed dealers we didn’t go around getting pets from anybody.
TODD: That’s pretty important that you did not go around taking people’s pets.
DR. BAIR: We eventually got some beagle dogs from I believe Washington State University and also from down in California at Davis. They had a beagle colony down there. But anyway we eventually had about 3 or 4 different groups of beagles and we set up our own colony. We raised our own dogs. WE were self-contained in a sense. And I might just add while were on this subject. Our dogs we had I forget just how many veterinarians we had working out there. Those dogs and of course the other animals too they had the full time attention of veterinarians and specialized animal care people. The dogs and all the animals were in probably the best facilities and certainly received better care than any animals in the community. They had the regular health check-ups and received all the inoculations they needed. And besides that they were well fed and cared for. We had probably some of the oldest beagle dogs out there that you’ve ever heard of. I think we had some living 18, 19 years because they were even though they had plutonium.
TODD: Well if you take good care of dogs there going to last longer just like human beings.
DR. BAIR: You know what the average life span of our dogs out there far exceeds the average life span of pets by many years. But anyway we did one of I think our first major observations out there was the fact that some of these dogs did eventually develop lung cancer so we continued to use beagle dogs to get some idea what the dose would be for a human. Trying to extrapolate from a dog to humans.
TODD: This was with plutonium dust did you ever do any with uranium dust here?
DR. BAIR: We did some with uranium ore dust somewhat a little later and radon. I don’t know whether you know about this or not but one of the earlier observations back in the early ‘40s was the fact that uranium miners were beginning to show up high instance of lung cancer. And it was difficult to know early on whether it was due to radon, whether it was due to uranium ore dust, with the residue from explosives they used in mines, the oil from the jack hammers the drilling equipment that they used all these factors arsenic all different things were in the mine. Historically back in the late 1800s over in Germany and Czechoslovakia they found that there was a high instance of lung cancer in hard rock miners. They were not I can’t remember now what they were mining at the time but arsenic was considered one of the factors.
TODD: Arsenic yes.
DR. Bair: And it wasn’t until the late ‘20s middle ‘20s that it was lung cancer. You know if you go back many years you never hear of lung cancer…consumption all various different kinds of things. But I think it was in the ‘20s that they diagnosed their problem as lung cancer and begin to feel that maybe it was radioactive material but you know radioactive materiel was not very well known in those days having only been discovered at the turn of the century. But anyway we did do studies with uranium and with trying to understand what in your mine environment was causing the problem. We eventually did find that radon was causing the problem. We also did some studies that combined radon with smoking because most of those miners smoked. The results are still kind of iffy. You couldn’t expose the dogs or rats or hamsters or any of the animals we used to this ore dust and have them smoke at the same time. So we either had to expose them to cigarette smoke before or afterwards. I think we exposed them afterwards had a little more effect more enhanced effect than if they smoked before they were exposed to the radon and ore dust. Anyway there was some evidence of enhancement by smoking.
TODD: Now you were doing that particular one with the beagles also.
DR. BAIR: We did that with beagles. We did that with hamsters primarily hamsters and beagles. We did studies with some of the fission products: cerium, strontium strontium-90, with iodine
TODD: That’s iodine-131.
DR. BAIR: Right. One of the things that we tried to test. One of the AEC atomic energy commissioners I think his name was Wilson. He was I believe a physicist. He wondered if you had in a rector containment vessel a release of iodine-131 if you immediately released a large amount stable iodine if this would not reduce the effect on the people that were breathing it. We do know that if you saturate the thyroid with stable iodine it won’t pick up near as much of the radioactive iodine but you gotta do this before hand. His idea was if you did this simultaneously. And we did find in some studies that yes you could reduce the uptake of radioiodine in the thyroid if you also got a big dose of stable iodine. But here again you are talking about something that itself can be toxic. Anyway I don’t think that they ever utilized that but we did show that under certain circumstances it was feasible.
TODD: Ok I’m going to change the subject just a little bit. Now you are going to add some things about the plutonium dust and americium.
DR. BAIR: Right. Back in the early ‘60s we were working with plutonium-239 the plutonium isotope that’s used in the bombs produced in the reactors. It’s the main product here. About that time Merle Eisenbud at New York University asked us if we hadn’t considered doing some studies using plutonium-238. Plutonium-238 is a very high activity plutonium. It’s much more radioactive than plutonium-239. It’s a very hot material. Thermally hot actually. It was beginning to be used in space flights and satellites as a fuel. It’s a thermal-electric fuel. They can use it to produce electricity. It’s a heat source used to produce electricity in the satellites. And it’s also used in some of the weapons systems I understand as part of the triggering system or something. I don’t know exactly. So we began to look at that and we went to my old laboratory in Ohio to get some plutonium-238. The first studies were very interesting. We found where as plutonium oxide is very insoluble, very insoluble the plutonium-238 is mush less insoluble than plutonium-239 oxide. If you put 239 oxide in your lungs it just stays there in the lymph nodes a long time. But if you inhale plutonium-238 even though it’s supposedly an insoluble oxide it begins to disintegrate primarily probably because of its high specific activity. It’s unstable physically unstable so the particle begins to break apart in smaller pieces and thus becomes more soluble. You know a greater surface area. So anyway this was a discovery we made here and I remember going back to the Pentagon and telling them about this. I was in a meeting with several admirals and generals from the Air Force, and the Army, and the Navy telling them they could not use plutonium-239 as a surrogate for plutonium-238 in their planning. They didn’t believe me. You have 2 isotopes same material they should be the same. But they did not. Anyway I had a couple of meetings back there trying to convince them. I did convince them of course that that was the case. But that had an impact on a lot of things. For example I was on a committee advising the space and the military people on this program putting these snap devices they called them in the satellites. Initially when they began to make these things they put the plutonium-238 in the oxide soluble form thinking that if they had an accident it would just burn up. And they did that. They had an accident and they just burned up. So what happened was we had plutonium -238 scattered all around the world. So anyway one of the things we did as a result of our studies we convinced them and the committee I was working with knew part of this or was part of this we convinced them that they should design their thermal electric system containing plutonium so that the plutonium was in a very insoluble form. So they then produced a ceramic form of plutonium-238 oxide which they use today. So if they have an accident and it comes back it’s going to come back in one chunk. And they have had a couple of those that have dropped in the oceans with no more worldwide contamination of plutonium-238 from that source. I want to say something about americium I want to tell you about some of these things that I feel I made an impact. Back in I think it must have the 1980s I received a call from 60 Minutes. This woman said, “You know we’re interested in doing a segment of a show on americium-241 because we know it’s used in smoke detectors. So we’re concerned that these smoke detectors after people get through with them they through them out in the trash and they go out in the dump and the source gets scattered all around. Well I told her I said, “You know I don’t think that’s a good idea. Because if you think about the lives that are saved by people using smoke detectors, Then you could begin to consider how infinitesimal the risk is, the health risk to people getting those materials and actually getting enough of it in their body. They could not get enough from one smoke detector to cause any problems. Well after several phone calls she called back and she said, “You know we agree with you, we will not do that show.” So I feel I made a real contribution (Laughter)
TODD: Well you know it’s funny when we tell people, everyday people that americium in the smoke detectors. We’ve had people say I am going to get rid of my smoke detectors. And that’s just silly.
DR. BAIR: Well if 60 Minutes had done that show it would have been terrible. And they didn’t do it.
TODD: Ok we’re going to get to the alligators now.
DR. BAIR: Ok back in about early 1960s we had an aquatic physiologist out there Bob Schifman who was planning to do some experiments to see how sensitive alligators were to radiation. In the radiation biology field we’ve done an awful lot of studies with various species. What you do is you can’t do these studies on people so you’ve got data from many species and then you begin to put man into this whole scheme of things. Where does he fit? He was going to do this study with some alligators. Well they had them in a can …should I show you a photograph now? This shows the 100-F area and down at the bottom is a picture of the Aquatic Biology area with some pens, fish pens. And Bob Schifman kept the alligators in these fish pens. I think he had 20 or 30 alligators maybe. Well one day a fisherman over at Ringgold well he picked up an alligator’ He was fishing on the bank and an alligator crawled up. So he took this alligator and displayed it at BB and M sports store. It’s no longer there. The people from the laboratory soon recovered that. . They came and got it of course. But anyway there was an alligator that had gotten loose in the Columbia River and a fisherman had found it.
TODD: Excuse me. How big was the alligator?
DR. BAIR: Well they were probably from 30 to 36 inches maybe 40” maximum. Bob Schifman took a position somewhere else so the alligators were sitting there and they were going to be destroyed. So I said oh we can’t do that. I’ll take over that study and I’ll go ahead and do it. So we did. We did a pilot study to find out how sensitive they were. We had to get this study going. Nothing had ever been done so we were starting from scratch. We exposed a group of 20 or around 21 or 22 alligators.
TODD: Now these were still about 3’ long?
DR. BAIR: Yeah about that size. So these alligators had gotten out through that fence. How we don’t know but they squeezed through there and headed right for the Columbia River.
TODD: What did you expose them to?
DR. BAIR: X radiation. And the timing was not good for what subsequently happened. We put them in the same ponds out there and I knew that obviously one had gotten away before. So the ponds are surrounded with chain link fence about 4 feet high. And we had plywood panels wired to the outside of that and overlapping so there would be no alligators getting out. Well that was not good enough because one morning our animal care-takers came out there and the first thing they saw was tracks going down to the river.
TODD: Now these were alligators that had been exposed?
DR. BAIR: Except for one. One was a control that was not exposed. The other 3 were exposed to radiation and we knew the doses and everything. We thought well we don’t want fisherman to find these alligators. So we got in touch with our management and with PR and they put a note in the paper saying that these alligators had escaped so people would know about it. But we were still working for General Electric Company then. That was before Battelle came in. And as happened that morning one of the vice presidents from General Electric was in town. So he picked up the newspaper. I think it was an evening paper in those days and there it was. He jumped on W.E.Johnson who was the plant manager. And W.E.Johnson obviously turned to Herb Parker who turned to Harry Konanberg who jumped on me. But we had already begun looking for the alligators. Going along the river. And we actually by that time we had found 2 of them. At that time the reactors were operating and the water from the reactors going back into the river was warm. And so the water along the shore was pretty warm and that’s where we found the 2 alligators.
TODD: What time of year was this?
DR. BAIR: I think it was July/August that time frame. Then they weren’t satisfied even though they knew we were doing this. Herb Parker sent a note to Harry Konanberg asking for a weekly report on what we had done to recover those alligators. So everyday I put out a crew looking for alligators. We searched as far down the river as Finley looking for 2 alligators.
TODD: You searched as far as Finley.
DR. BAIR: We did. We of course didn’t find them. But just the same I had to put a crew out everyday from I think the beginning of September until January. And every Friday I had to turn
In a report to Harry Konanberg who sent it on to Parker who sent it on to Johnson the status of our alligator hunts.
TODD: But you only found 2? So you still had 2 you were still looking for?
DR. BAIR: Still 2 outdoors. Well anyway finally January I talked to our aquatic people and they convinced me if there were any alligators out there the water’s too cold for them. So I sent a note to Konanburg and to Parker that we have done everything we could and we’re not going to find them. He agreed that we could cease our alligator hunts. We did expose some more to complete that study the following summer. Well actually we did that winter. But this time we housed them inside the greenhouse which is shown there on that the thing. Well the greenhouse was near the ponds and in there we could control the temperature. The water in the ponds at this time of the year was too cold for the alligators. So the next phase of the study we did with the alligators housed inside of the greenhouse. There was no way that they could get out of there and of course they didn’t. And actually we finished the study the following summer with another group of alligators. We didn’t loose any of those. But alligators was not a very popular subject among the management at that time. You know it was very serious then. I tell you it was serious because I’d only been there a short time and I was young in my career and it was not a nice thing to have happen. You know we look back now with a bit of amusement but it was not funny at the time.
TODD: Well the public is so paranoid about some of these types of things that I can imagine that you could get some pretty good stories about irradiated alligators there. And they would grow very large. Quite the old Woody Allen movie.
DR. BAIR: I’ve had 2 calls since then think back in about the 70s. A fisherman reported that
had gone in a bar and said he had seen an alligator in the river. I had enough evidence to show that they wouldn’t survive. Then I think about in the 80s maybe it was in the 90s I guess shortly before I retired I had a call from a fish and wildlife person. He said, “Do you know anything about alligators in the Columbia River?’ I said, “No sir.” That was the end of the alligators. I hope.
TODD: Yeah well they would have gotten to be pretty good size if they had lasted long. Ok now what were going to do.
DR. BAIR: (showing photograph) This shows the equipment we used for exposing the alligators to X-radiation. Alligators were placed in this circular plexi-glass box and the box was placed on a turntable. The box was rotated underneath the X-ray beam to insure that the alligators received uniform exposure to the radiation.
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VHS
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33:42
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William J. Bair
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Hanford Atomic Products Operation
Description
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"Dr. Bair was a pioneer in the field of health physics. he was employed at Hanford beginning in the era when GE was the prime contractor. He did innovative research on the effective [sic] of radiation using animal models." Interview with B. Bair on 10/25/2004. Includes "alligator story"
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CREHST
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Hanford History Project
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10/25/2004
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Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu.
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mp4
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English
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Oral History
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||||osm
RG2D_4A
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T.2010.52.04 (CREHST #)
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33:42
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https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Ffd95ecab0cf9db0201c4e9f7a2c4aba2.m4v
c1a79c65fa5873df3517198299df6cb5
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CREHST Museum Oral Histories
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Oral History; Hanford Site; Richland, WA
Description
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Oral Histories conducted at and collected by the Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science & Technology (CREHST) Museum. The CREHST Museum, closed in 2014, was dedicated to preserving the history of the Hanford Site and Richland, WA and held the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection. After closure of the CREHST Museum most records and archival holdings were transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project where they are now held.
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CREHST Museum, Gary Fetterolf, Terry Andre
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1999-2013
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All resources have consent transferred to Washington State University's Hanford History Project. Contact Hanford History Project for information on use and rights.
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English.
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RG2-4A
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Hanford Site; Richland, WA
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1943-1990
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Oral histories originally conducted by, or collected by, the CREHST Museum. Property and rights transferred to Washington State University upon CREHST closure in 2014
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Washington State University's Hanford History Project.
Oral History
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Gary Fetterolf
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James (Jim) Daniel Anderson
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Home of James Anderson
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N/A
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1:44:06
Hanford Sites
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Tank Farms; Burial Grounds
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James Daniel Anderson Oral History
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Life in Richland; Work at Hanford: Operations Supervisor; Lab Supervisor; Engineering at Tank Farms and Burial Ground.
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An oral history conducted with James Daniel Anderson. Interview conducted by Gary Fetterolf.
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CREHST
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Hanford History Project
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7/12/2012
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Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu.
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.mp4 file
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English
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Oral History Interview
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RG2-4A T.2012.004
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||||osm
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Richland, WA
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1:44:06
Rights Holder
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Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities