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https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F8e0756e3663c4eed74b608601031114e.mp4
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Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Jerry Yesberger
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span>Jerry Yesberger</span></span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">I go by Jerry Yesberger, Jerry, J-E-R-R-Y, and then Yesberger, Y-E-S-B-E-R-G-E-R.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">All right.</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> Thank you. My name's Robert Bau</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">man, and today's date is December 9</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX169569796">th</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> of 2013. And we're conducting this interview on the campus o</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">f Washington State University,</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> Tri-Cities. So Jerry, let's start maybe by having you tell us when you first arrived in the area, what brought you to Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">. Well, I was born and raised in Colorado. Went to University of Denver, and I graduated with a BS degree in 1950. And let's see here. Then I worked for a short time in Colorado, mainly because I wanted to come back from the state of Washington</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">to the state of Washington. I was in the service from '43 to the end of '45. And I spent some time in the Seattle area and everything, and I really liked it. And so when I got back to Colorado, I applied for jobs with Sta</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">te of Washington and everybody. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Then there was an opening at Hanford. And at that time, everything here was General Electric company, as you probably already know. There </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">was</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> no contractors other than GE, and they ran the community. And everything</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">there wasn't anything other than GE here. And my first job at Hanford, which lasted about five years, was in the public health department, which we had most of our activity concerned for the community here, rather than the site, although there were some activities during that that we were asked to perform, such as</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">—oh, </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">I can remember that I'd been out to the site for some things to do with health matters and so on that I was aske</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">d to do the work on, and I did. And after about four, four-and-a-half</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> years, the city became a city away from General Electric company, and I wanted to stay with Hanford. So I applied</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">well, I don't remember how exactly I got there, but the radiation pr</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">otection department in Hanford L</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">aboratories at that time. And again, this was a time when everything was one site. There </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">was</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> no contractors other than General Electric</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">offered me</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> a job in radiation protection. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">And my radiation protection time lasted an awful long time, because I retired</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> in</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> early</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">oh, gosh. Say, it was 19</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">but anyway, I had 36 years' service.</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> And my fir</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">st job was out here in the 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">rea, and GE at that time gave new people an awful lot of training. And I was trained as a health physicist. And I spent, oh, gosh, the first few months training. And I spent, oh, gosh</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">they had a project here called 558 Project, and what it did was go through the old reactors, all of the old reactors and repla</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">ced the tubing in the reactors. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">And each one of these assignments lasted, oh, three to four </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">months. So we started out in B R</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">eactor and finished there. And my job was I had a crew of radiation monitors working for me, and we worked shift work, because there was a big, big construction job. And it took about three to four months in each of the old reactors out there to go through these,</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> replace the tubing, and so on. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">S</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">o I followed those from B to C R</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">eactor to 100</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">DR to 100</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">H to 100</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">F doing the same thing, ess</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">entially, because we went through</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> there. And then following that time, I went</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> back into 200 West A</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">rea, where I worked on projects and so on. And rather than work</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">I didn't have radiation monitors work for me then, but I had always assigned projects myself to work on. And I did that in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">I have worked in every area on the project out here, with the exception of FFTF. I did not work, and I did not have an office there. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">But every other </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">area I had an office and these things.</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> So it was kind of really a broad</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> orientation program and so on. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">I want to back up just a little bit. In the service, I was in the Coast Guard. And this was from '43 to '46. And I was a pharmacist's mate, and again, the training was real, </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">real</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> good. And the last year or so, I was on a ship, USS Aquarius, and it was an attack cargo ship. And our job was to take troops. We had Marines that we had aboard, and we had training to have them land on something. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">nd boy, they really trained us. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">To make a long story short, we got an assignment, and we knew we were going to move our ship. But we didn't know where or what for. But it turned out it was that they were preparing to invade Japan with troops. And I never saw so many ships in my life, where we all had troops, and we were ready to train. An</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">d we practiced getting on these</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> landing barges, and, of course, I was a medic, so </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">I had to go in with the troops. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">But I never had any real active duty due in that time, prior to that time, because I was always out doing these other things. But we were ready to go in, and so we had actually moved into where we would make our move, and guess what. The Nagasaki bomb was dropped. Well, of significance there is the plutonium on that bomb was made at Hanford. So that was really an interesting aspect of it, and I've always been so, so, so, so interest</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">ed in that aspect of the thing. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, shortly after that, the war was over, and everybody was discharged. And then that's when I came back and went from there, like I said, prior to this. But I thought that was an interesting aspect of this whole thing. So I worked for the General Electric Company for about five years in radiation protection doing all of these things I've been telling you all about. And again, I had ver</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">y, very, very good assignments. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Probably my most treasured assignment was I was the health physicist for biology, out in the 100</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">-F A</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">rea. And I spent a year out there, and that was because of all the animals</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">the pigs and the </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">dogs and ev</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">erything, and my job was to write</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> radiation procedures for them to do where the monitor and I had rad</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">iation monitors reporting to me </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">out there duri</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">ng that time. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, following that—</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">I don't know how this developed, but the Atomic Energy Commission, which it was at that time, got my name, and they asked me if I would be interested in federal employment. So in the 1</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX169569796">st</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> of January, 1960, I switched jobs from the General Electric Company to the Atomic Energy Commission. And my job, there it turned out that I was a headquarters person, because we were doing what they call compliance inspection of people that are used in the state of Washington, Alaska, and Washington. Anybody that had a license for radioactive material, they had to be inspected.</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> I was one of these inspectors. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">And it was a very, very interesting job. It involved a tremendous amount of travel, however. And we were always</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">when I went up to Alaska several times to inspect people, and there were only for us in this whole division, by the way.</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> So there was only two of us that made any inspections. And so I liked it. I like it, because I like people. But I worked at that, and it turned out that we were called Region 8 Division of Compliance, and it consolidated with Region 5 in California. So I </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">didn't want to go to California. S</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">o I was offered a job with Atomic Energy Commission here in the Richland operations office, and I stayed there until I reti</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">red for my service. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">But I was with</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">most of this time, by the way,</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> where I was transferred,</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> I was in the health and safety division at RL. And at that time, there was no</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">we had one manager for this whole site at Hanford. We didn't have</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> like t</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">hey do now, one on for the 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">rea, and all this kind of stuff. So we had our own health and safety division, so our entire</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">everything we d</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">id was associated with Hanford. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">And so that's where I finished my career in 19</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">with the federal government. I did work, however, two years after retirement for a company called </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span class="SpellingError SCX169569796">MacTech</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">, and they were a contractor to DoE to work on specific problems and so on. And I worked with them for a couple of years. And I also worked on the employee compensation program for about a year, and then finally retired.</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">That's kind of it in a nutshell. I hope I didn't confuse you.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: No, n</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">o. I do want to go back and </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">ask a couple of questions</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">. So when you first came to Hanford in 1950, what was your first impression of the area?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well it was a shock. Number one, I had never been in eastern Washington in my life. I got a job offer, and I thought it might </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">look like Seattle, but it didn't! [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> So that's my impression. But I wouldn't trade this area for the whole state of Washington now. I love it. We raise</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">d</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> our family here, and I'm a big booster of it.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">When you first arrived, where did you live?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, my first housing was a dorm for about three months, and then we mo</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">ved into a B house, which was a </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">duplex. And we lived right across from Lewis and Clark School here in Richland, and we lived in there for a year or two. Then they sold the houses here, and a fellow that I worked with down here, he didn't want to stay here, so he was living in a ranch house, which</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> I bought. And I'm still there. [LAUGHTER] And we live on Torbett</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> here in Richland, and we've been here ever since. We had one child that was born in Denver, and then our other three, and we finally had a girl, which I was so happy for. I love girls. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">[LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">And she lives here, by the way. And she's the only one that lives here, and she's a special education teacher for the handicapped at Richland School. That's what she got her degree in. And she loves the work, but I couldn't do it.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Do you remember how much you paid for that house?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">We paid about $6,500. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">We sure did. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">nd prior to that, they furnished the oil, the painters, everything that was here was done for us.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Do you remember what your rent was on the B house?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Yeah, it was about $30 a month.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: $30 a month.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: Yeah!</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Do you have any other memories of the community in the 1950s, what it was like at the time?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, yeah, somewhat. One of the things that mystified me was that we lived in Richland, but blacks could not live in Kennewick. They would not rent to</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">you couldn't buy a house in Kennewick if you were black. And that always, I thought, was unreasonable, because we had several blacks t</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">hat worked with us in the AEC here</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> that were wonderful. And I still don't have any</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">I love them all. I like everybody.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">So when you were AEC, they weren't doing the hiring of African Americans there?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">No, they hired them. Oh, yeah, AEC, there was no question on that with the government, but boy, you couldn't live here. And we had several blacks in our division, and it worked out great. No, the community</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">do you live</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">I mean, do you folks live</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> here? </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, when we got here, there wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">s nothing north of Van Giesen</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">. Nothing. And so boy, did we see that grow.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Yeah, I imagine you’ve seen a lot of</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> change and grow</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">th</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: The week we got here—</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">well, let's see. It was about</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">I lived here for about, well, maybe three months in the dorm, until we got housing for my wife in that B house. And it was great, the idea of that housing.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Yeah. What was the dorm like?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">I didn't have any problem. Of course, I missed my family. We had a boy at that time</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> living in Colorado, and he now lives in Snohomish. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">nd again, we had the big army camp in North Richland, where we had just thousands of trailers and everything. And that was quite a sight to see.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">So you said you first job was working for the health </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">department, or public health?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, it was the health and safety. Yes, it wasn't the health department at that time, but it included their functions.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">What </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">sorts of things—that first job, what sorts of</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> things did you do?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, we used to do all kinds of inspections, of course</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">. But restaurants,</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> schools, the water department in Richland, just broad health things that required health overviews. So that was the job.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">You were working for GE, right?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">How many people were working in the health at that time?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Oh, we probably had 20 or 25. We had a doctor that was in charge of us.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">And then you said you</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> went into radiation protection, right?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Yes, from that function. An</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">d the main reason is because GE—</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">went to a community, rather than being GE</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">managed. We had to elect a city councilman. It was a city.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Do you remember what your thoughts were about that, about Richland becoming an independent city at the time?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">No, I think we all accepted it. It was good. Obviously, when you work like that, you're interested in benefits. And I think that swayed a lot of it for me to stay with GE.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">So when you moved to radiation protection then, you said you had to have a lot of training at that point?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Oh, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">And for the jobs you were doing, did you have to wear special protective clothing at all?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Oh, yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Can you describe that? Sort of what sorts of things you had to wear.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, basically, they're just white coveralls as the one here, and they're still using the same white coveral</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">ls out there, just like we did.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">How about security at Hanford? What was that like when you first came?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, I think it was very tight. It was very tight. They really stressed security and safety. Safety was</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">in my estimation, my experience, General Electric was the most, the best contractor I ever worked for in my life, because they had emphasis on safety an</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">d health and really stressed it, you </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">know. Much better than possibly they did in later years.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">So was there sort of ongoing training for safety?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Oh, yes. Very, very, very, very</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">GE was very safety-conscious, and they were so good to their employees. You never read anything about anything happening in the newspaper or anything like that. They got it to their employees right away, and it was a pleasure. And the rest was a pleasure too, but not like</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">I miss GE.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">And you talke</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">d about, was it the 558 project?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Yeah. </span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: With </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">changing the tubing. So what was your job? I know you went to each different reactor as they did that. What sort of things were you doing for that?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">My particular job was I was what they called the radiation supervisor. And so I had about eight radiation monitors with me all the time during each out</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">age</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">, and we went from one to the other. And their job was everything had to be monitored just like they do now, in and out of the areas, and move it, and take it to disposal areas, and everything.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">So was it moni</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">toring the employees’ exposure rates</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Yes, monitoring the employees and the jobs that they're doing, because we had to develop the radiation work procedures, which they were working at. And this would vary during the whole outage. And they were very tight at first, and there was any grinding or anything or heat or anything, you had to have special requirements for that.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">So </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">of </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">the different jobs you had and the different parts of the site that</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> you worked at, wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">s there a job or something you did that you found the most challenging, and/or something that was the most rewarding of the things you did</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> at Hanford</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, probably the most rewarding job I ever had here was Hanford, was I was here with Richland operations offi</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">ce, and during the americium</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> accident in 1955, I think it was, and my job, at that time, was</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">as a matter of fact, I got involved in that partic</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">ular incident at about 5:00</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> in the morning after it happened at 4:00. And I went out with the doctor, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> fellow by the name of Dr. Brei</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">tenstein, and he and I went out and met Mr</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">. McClu</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">skey out in the area, before they got me i</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">nto the decontamination center. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">And my job was re</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">ally I represented RL in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> whole aspect of the care of that patien</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">t during the months and months that he was here. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">ecause he </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">was confined, couldn't leave, and </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">everything. And my job was to</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">as a matter of fact, I came right out to see him every single morning that he was in there, and we became very, very, very, very good friends. And it turned out I</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> was a pallbearer when he died. [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">And it was a rewarding experience, because to begin with, he was such a great guy, and he accepted all of this and was never down, but he couldn't hardly see. He was grossly contaminated. And my job was to keep people at RL down here, the Richland operations office informed of what the situation was with him, and to notify headquarters, keep them informed, because it was a real significant accident, the worst we've ever had at Hanford.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">So you mentioned t</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">hat he had suffered probably with his vision.</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">What other sort of injuries </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">or--</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, what happened, he</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> had put his hand in this glove</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">box out in 234</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">-5 B</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">uilding, and it exploded, and came out and hit him in the face. So he was just so grossly contaminated, and he had to have a radiation monitor with him every hour that he was down there. And I became so familiar with that accident and everything, and I felt it was the most rewarding for me to have something like that to do.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Do you remember about how long he had to stay hospitalized?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, yes. He was down there for probably a year.</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> A year.</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> We got hot food. It was provided to him by</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> Kadlec</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> Hospital down here, and he had a nurse with him down there at all times. And his wife was living down there with him also.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">And where was he then? Was he at the hospital, or was he-</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, there was facility at the back of</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> Kadlec</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> Hospital, which is no longer there. And this facility was called Emergency Decontamination Center, and he was there. They had beds and everything in there, showers and everything. And it was a specific facility for that case, to tell you the truth. And it's since been torn down, which I think was a mistake, myself, because if you ever had another one, you couldn't have been a better facility for it.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">You mentioned you wer</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">e in close with him, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> were a pallbearer at his funeral. How long did he live?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">He lived about, I think, about three years. And then he died of a heart attack. It wasn't radiation. But he certainly had radiation in him that would cause cancer if he had lived too much longer.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Are there any other incidents or</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> sort of</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> unusual events that happened when you were working at Hanford that kind of stand out in your mind at all?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, I happened to be a trained accident investigator, and I had to go to school and learn all this kind of stuff. And I probably investigated more accidents than anybody ever has at Hanford. But we</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">’ve had fatalities, and we had big </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">spreads of contamination. We had several things that cause it, plus, we also responded to off-site accidents. And I had what we call a radiological assistant team that reported </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">to me, and I went out on those where t</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">here were trucks that w</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">ould spill radioactive material, where t</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">here was</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">this is kind of a little odd. I probably shouldn't even mention it, but you'll appreciate it. But we had a truck of uranium billets overturn on Lolo Pass, and these billets weigh 15, 20 pounds, but there's hundreds of them in this truck. Those things went all over the highway up here in Montana. I responded to that one. And one of the things that I</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> was never trained on was guns. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">But, well, we were up there probably about a week recovering all of those billets that spilled over, because they all had to be accounted for. It was very strict on that. But we were out from town out on this pass someplace, and somebody had to sit in the truck with a gun at night to make sure nothing came, if anybody came from the</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> highway or anything like that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, they gave me a big shotgun. I don't </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">even </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">remember what kind of gun. I couldn't have sho</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">t that damn thing if I'd had to! [LAUGHTER] And I still can't! [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> But that was kind of humorous. But we couldn't have the guy that could shoot be there all the time. So we all spent about three or four hours a night out there by ourselves.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">How long were you out there?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">We were out there a couple of weeks. But I responded to lots of</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">the worst probably the most one that I responded to as the team captain was we had a spread of contamination at the University of Washington at the reactor. And I actually, again, there was some plutonium that came from Hanford that they were analyzing up there, and there was a spill. And the reactor at the University of Washington was greatly contaminated </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">with plutonium. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">And I had a team. I had three or four people that went up with me to respond to that, and we were there two or three weeks there helping them get that all in, and we did. We got it all cleaned up, but there </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">was</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> some minor depositions. But boy, if that thing would happen now, the way it's anti-nuclear, it would be horrible. But this happen</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">ed</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> to be in spring break when all o</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">f the kids were away. So we</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> lucked out on that on that thing, but we all had to wear protective clothing that two or three weeks while we were doing that. But I was the team leader on that particular accident.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Do you remember what the time period was when that happened? What year that might've been?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Oh, gosh, I can't remember that. But I responded to probably 30 or 40 spills and so on that were </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">all over the country in Oregon and Washington</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">. And then we had spills in Oregon that we had to go down to, because at that time, the state didn't have people for that function to overlook at that. So we did their work for them. And I did that fo</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">r, like I say, </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">about four or five years.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">So did you usually respond if it was like material that had come from Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">No, it could be anything.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Could’ve been anything, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> Could be anything. I loved the job, and I loved the people, because I like people. But it was so much travel. I was always gone from Hanford.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">So that was probably one of the more challenging aspects for you is just all the travel.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Yeah, it was. We had young children, and it seemed like I couldn't go out and come back, there wasn't a million things broke.</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> So that's the way it went.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">I wanted to ask you about President Kennedy's visit in 1963, if you went to that that day. Do you have any memories about that?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, I got two memories. I got a call after that article was in the paper from the Seattle</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">no, she was from, I think, a public relations firm down here, one of them, that asked me about it. So I told them everything I knew. So I told them about this one friend of ours that happened to get up and shake Kennedy's hand. Well, of course, they were interested more in that than were what I had to say.</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">So the big article in the paper, he gives his report. He didn't even mention my name.</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> No, I didn't care. But my son</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">in-law was there when they called too, and they quoted him in the article and everything. But poor me. No, I wasn't looking. I wasn't really looking for my name to be any place.</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> Yes, I was out there. It was, of course, it was in the fall when he was here, not long before he was assassinated. But it was such a hot day, and I think all of Richland went out to i</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">t. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">There was just car after car going out to that area, and some of them boiling over from the heat and all this kind of stuff. But it was a very, very excellent program.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">So as you look back at</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> your years working at Hanford—</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">how many was it?</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> Thirty--</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: Gee!</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Something like that?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">About 36. It was 36.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, as you look back at those 36 years, overall, how would you assess Hanford as a place to work?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, I thought i</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">t was excellent and very safety-</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">conscious. It couldn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> have—</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">in</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> my aspect—</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">been a safer place to live in my life than I did here at Hanford. And like I say, I worked in all the reactors. I worked in the separation plants and everything, and it was interesting. I think it was rewarding, the fact that you could clean up stuff. So it makes me real</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">we had such excellent facilities out here at that time. But all those buildings are gone and torn down, and they could've been used for so many things now. And I think that was a really big mistake. But they didn't ask me.</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, i</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">s there anything I haven't asked you about that you think would be important to share or talk about?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, you know, I don't know. I think you might want to look at my submittal in the Parker Foundation on that thing and see what I said at that time and the answer to their qu</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">estions and so on. It went well. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">nd I just feel so fortunate to have been here all this time and be so lucky and still be here. I'm the luckiest guy in the world, and I'm ve</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">ry happy that I was at Hanford. </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">I've got several awards while I was here for my work. One of them I do want to show you, because I'm reall</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">y probably real pleased</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">, but I was elected a fellow in the National Health Physics Society. I received awards, several from</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">—I w</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">as president of our local chapter of the Health Physics Society. I received several awards from those people. I was really well thought of while I was here at Hanford. And I was real pleased.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">So were you involved in t</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">he Parker Foundation as well</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Yes, I've been on it since</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">I still am.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Do you want to talk about t</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">hat, like how you got involved with </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">that?</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">I was asked</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> to join it by Dr. Bair</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">, who is still there. And I</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> know you know about Ron Kathren. Everybody knows Ron Kathren</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">. Well, </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">I play cribbage with Ron Kathren</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"> every Wednesday at my house now. We play cribbage. I just think he's such a great person, and such a great health physicist, that I was so lucky to know him. And they asked me to join, and I've been real active, until this business with my wife, which I took a leave of absence. And I haven't been able to go there, because I can't leave my wife. But I still pay my dues and go there, and it's been a good organization.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">Well, I want to thank you for coming today in this cold weather and coming and letting us talk to you. And then maybe we could get a shot of your award that you brought in.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX169569796"><span class="TextRun SCX169569796"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Yesberger</span>: Oh, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX169569796">.</span><span class="EOP SCX169569796"> </span></p>
</div>
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:39:12
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
195 kbps
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
300 Area
200 West Area
B Reactor
C Reactor
100-DR
100-H Area
100-F Area
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1950-2013
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1950-1970
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Bair, Bill
Kathren, Ron
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Jerry Yesberger
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Jerry Yesberger conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Nuclear weapons plants--Health aspects--Washington (State)--Hanford Site Region
Richland (Wash.). Public Schools
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
12/9/2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-07-18: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
100-DR
100-F Area
100-H Area
200 West Area
300 Area
B Reactor
C Reactor
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Kennewick (Wash.)
Richland (Wash.)
-
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bde01b50c49fdd19de9845aaa9a2a017
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fab86fcd9bafe1ad87121451929b5f8b0.mp4
bf4cb3c2a0e804cfdad85f1d48db7166
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Laura Arata
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Leonard Peters
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237872738">
<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">Peters_Leonard</span></span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></strong></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Leonard </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Leonard Peters. L-E-O-N-A-R-D P-E-T-E-R-</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">S.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Thank you. My name's Laura Arata. It's November 19</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX237872738">th</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">already</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--2013, and we're </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">conducting this interview on the campus of Washington State Uni</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">versity Tri-Cities. So I wonder </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">if we could start, if you could tell us a little bit about how </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">your family came to Hanford and where you were from.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I was born in Denver in August of '43. My father came out in June or July of '43 from Denver.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And so my mom, myself, and my brother were there in Denver, and when I was two months</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">old we</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> came out with another family, t</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">he Carl Eckert family. And it was my mom, Mrs. Eckert,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">their daughter</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--who was </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">about my age</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and my brothers. So five of us came out in a car in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">October of '43. And my dad was working out here. And so that's how we came out, was in an</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">old car.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And what was your father doing at Ha</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">nford?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">He was a truck driver. He drove for Remington Arms in Denver, who was DuPont, and he also</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">worked for Bechtel up in Alaska. And he came down and went back to Denver and was driving,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">heard about this place. And if you'd like a very interesting story--</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Always.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237872738">
<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">He was driving for an Army officer. A colonel or something, I'm not sure. Kind of a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I'll say</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">chauffeur, but it wasn't really a chauffeur. But my dad had heard about this place. And he</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">asked his</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I'll say colonel</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">about it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And very few people knew about it. But this colonel says,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> well,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> I can't tell you anything about it, but if</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">you've heard of heavy water, it has something to do with heavy water.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Of course my dad, heavy water didn't mean anything to him. But you know, hindsight. It's kind</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">of interesting to me this colonel knew a little bit about what was going on here. As big a secret</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">as it was, not that many people knew. But he had some idea of what was going on. I found</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that very interesting.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yeah. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And how long d</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">id your father work at the Hanford site?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237872738">
<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">From '43 until he retired in '73.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237872738">
<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Okay, well, w</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">e'll come back to that. I want to ask you just a few questions about the area. Obviously you</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">were very, very young</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I'm sorry. He passed away in '73. He retired in '67.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">. I'll have more questions for you.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Do you remember, growin</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">g up, what sort of housing </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">you lived i</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">n, what the situation was like?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">My first memory was an A house, 1520 Thayer. We moved in there about 1945. So that's my</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">first memory, though we lived many places before that, as my dad's Q clearance bears out.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But my memory goes back to the A house in 1945.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Did yo</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">u live there for quite a while?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Lived there until around '56, '57.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And could you describe that house a little bit, for anyone w</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ho doesn't know what an A house is?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">An A house is a duplex, two-story. You have neighbors literally right next door to you. It was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">three-bedroom, all upstairs. And of course back then there was no air conditioning, and it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">would get hot in the summertime. I can literally remember s</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ummers, 109 to </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">110, </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">112 degrees. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the only air conditioning was a swamp cooler. So it was pretty miserable, but yet you </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">didn't </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">think about it beca</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">use that's just the way it was. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">The government literally furnished everything, from throw rugs to</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> table, chairs. I mean literally </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">everything. Coal. We had a coal-burning furnace, and like on</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ce a month or so on, they would </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">deliver coal. And you had to make sure there was a coal bin that </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">had slats in it, and you had to </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">make sure that the slats were in, because if you forgot to put t</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">he slats in you'd have coal all over the basement floor. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And so that was kind of interesting. My dad, every morning,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> would have to get up and stoke </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the fire and get it going in wintertime, because we used </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">to have some pretty bad winters </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">compared to today. And so that was, again, ju</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">st part of living in this area. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Dust storms. You've heard of the termination w</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">inds. The wind would blow and the </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">curtains would go back and forth and just wave in the breeze, w</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ith all the windows closed. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">you'd have a quarter of an inch of dust on the windowsills a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">nd everything. But there again, </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that's just the way it w</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">as. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I can remember one story</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">my wife tells that w</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">hen her m</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">other came out with her and her </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">brother, met at the train station, and the father was the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">re to pick them up. There was a </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">windstorm right then. And her first words were "Sherman, get me a ticket bac</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">k home." And </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">they ended up dying here, and buried here. And I know my dad, he swore he would never</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—he </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">wanted to go back to Colorado, but again, he was buried here and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> lived here all the rest of his life. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But what e</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">lse can I say on the government?</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Everyth</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ing—y</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ou know, I've heard of people</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—we </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">never did do it, but people get tired of a chair or something, they</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">'d break it, call housing. They </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">would need another chair, and they'd come out and replace the chair. And if you had</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—back </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">then they had fuses, as opposed to breakers. Blow a fus</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">e, call housing, they'd send an </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">electrician out to change the fuse for you. I mean, it was pretty amazing, really. And it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">good quality furniture.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Cool. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">So I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about growing up in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Richland in the '40s and '50s, </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">sort of what the </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">community was like at that time?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">It was a fairly small town, of course. I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and this is just my memory</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">it was about</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">probably maybe 23,000 people, was all. Something like that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And it was truly a </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Leave It t</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">o Beaver</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> era. People laugh at that, but that's exactly what it was,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">because if you stop and think about it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">in order to live in Richland, you had to work out in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">area. In order to work out in the area, you needed clearance. And it was not unusual to have</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">someone knock at the door and be an FBI agent investigating someone or something. I mean,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">it was very controlled.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And so there was no crime to speak of. Nickel and dime stuff. But there was one murder, in all</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">those years. They never did find the killer. But no, we'd play out all night and folks wouldn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">think a thing about it. That’</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">s just the way it was. And in the summertime, like I said, as hot</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">as it was, all the windows</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> and doors would be wide open and w</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ouldn't think a thing about it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And people kind of knew one another. Not that you knew everybody, but that small a town and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">everyone working out there. Everyone rode the bus, so there was a camaraderie with not only</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">where you worked but also on the buses. And people I think really did try and watch out for</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">one another. But no, growing up, it was great.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">One</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> kind of</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> fun story. We used to hooky-bob. You know what that is?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I don't.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Okay, w</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">hat we'd do in the wintertime when the roads were snowy and icy. You'd hide behind a bush,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and as a car went by</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> you ran out and grabbed the bumper and had them drag you around.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And that was a lot of fun. That was one of the winter sports.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But it was kind of interesting. I can remember, newspaper front page showed a bus with a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">glove on it. The story was, it was a hooky-bobber and his hand was wet and it froze to the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">bumper, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">make a long story short, it was on the dangers of hooky-bobbing. But it just</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">happens that the guy that that glove belonged to graduated a couple years ahead of me.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Name was Jim Crum, who is now an attorney for the US government.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But no, it was a fun time. I mea</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">n, Friday night shows </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was wall-to-wall kids. Very seldom</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was there a fight or anything. We'd hang out at the Spudnut Shop, or there was another place</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">called Tim's.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Someone that ha</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">d a car would drive around the U</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ptown area about 30 times, just looking for</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">gals or whatever. I mean, it was an </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">American Graffiti </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">time. Have you seen American Graffiti?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yes, sir.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">You see that, and every person in there</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Hey, that was so-and-so;</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> that was so-and-so. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">mean, it was so accurate to our high school days. It was a good time to grow up.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Wintertime, of course, we had Christmas tree forts, and if there was snow on the ground we'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">have snow forts and choose up sides and have snowball fights hiding behind our snow forts.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">We would, if there was no snow</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">or even if there was </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">snow after Christmas</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">build Christmas</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">tree forts. Stack them up and have a roof on it, even sleep out in it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But if a neighbor down the street</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">you know, if they had a Christmas tree fort, about one or</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">two in the morning we'd sneak down and steal all their trees. An</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">d we'd have a bigger fort then. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">We would sleep out a lot in the summertime, because it was hot. I can reme</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">mber we would </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">sleep out maybe 10 o'clock at night or so. There were still orchards, cherry orchards in town.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Up on Van Giesen. We lived just around the corner on Thayer.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">We'd get up, go down there and steal cherries. We'd steal quite a few cherries. Then the next</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">day we'd sell them house to house.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">What else was there? The buses were a big part. The buses were fun, because there was two</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">groups. They were both run by the government, but there was what they called the city local,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">which took people from point A to point B as far as downtown and uptown, different places.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Then there was the outer area buses that took workers to work and brought them home. But</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">there was two different</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">not bus companies, but groups of drivers that drove for each group.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But not only hooky-bobbing, but it was always fun to</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">as buses passed</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">snowball th</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">em, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">throw snowballs at th</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">em. Just fun things.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Some good winter sports.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Could you talk a little bit more about these</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">you mentioned Fr</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">iday night shows, and also the </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Spudnut </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Shop. Could you describe those</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> a little bit</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I mean, everyone went to them. All the kids went to them. And you know, you're talking</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the '50s, where rock and roll was just coming in. I wrote a piece one time on</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I really think that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">we were born at a nice time, because we can remember big bands, we can remember that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">type of music and how rock and roll came in.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And of course parents didn't like rock and roll at all. It was evil, and all this. But a lot of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">movies, some of the movi</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">es, had rock and roll stars.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> I can remember people</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">dancing in the aisles while the movie was on. Things like that. I can remember one gal was</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">dancing what they used to call a dirty bop. They ended up kicking her out.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> But no, there was</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">dancing and hooting and hollering.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Before the Uptown Theater opened was the Village Theater. And that was when we were</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">younger, but that's when they showed the serials, whether it be Superman or Whip Wilson or</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">whomever. But every Saturday we'd go to the show. There'd be a cartoon as well as one or</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">two double feature.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">That's back</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">we were young, but a fun thing then, I guess, was to have your popcorn boxes.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">They were boxes at the time</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">. You'd flatten them and throw th</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">em and make a shadow on the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">screen. That was the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> big deal.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But the Village Theater was so strange because it was all kids, basically. Because the Richland</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Theater, which is now The Players, was more the adults. The Village Theater was for little</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">kids. But you would walk down the aisles, and was a kind of carpeting, and you'd stick,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">stick, stick, stick. I </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">don't think they ever cleaned it. Pop spilled on it, candy bars, and everything</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">else. That was fun.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Then they did build the Uptown Theater, and that was more adult movies. But on Friday night,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">it was lot of science fiction. That's where you saw Frankenstein, Dracula, The </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">Wolfman</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">, and all</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that. Then the midnight shows had really neat</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">they'd have a midnight show, and we wouldn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">get home until three in the morning, but no big </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">deal. Y</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ou'd walk home. No big deal.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I don't know if you can do it today, but there'd be half a dozen of your friends walking home</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">with you, just having a good time.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But the Friday night shows</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I started smoking quite early. I don't smoke now. But I can</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">remember, for mowing the lawn and peeling t</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">he taters and things that, I’d get</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> $1 a week</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">allowance. And with that dollar I could buy a pack of cigarettes, which would last me a week,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">get into the show, and have like a dime left over. So I mean, a dollar, I was in fat city.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Do you remember how much a movie cost, about that time?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">First ones I can remember was $0.11 or $0.12, and then it went to $0.20. And I think during</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">my high school days, if I remember right, it was probably $0.35, something like that. I'm not</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">sure.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">All right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I'm fascinated by the Spudnut Shop and Tim's. C</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">an you describe those a little?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Well, Tim's was where Dr. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">Chavla</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> placed his</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">it's</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> kind of cadd</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">y-cornered from the graveyard,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the old graveyard. And it was a nice place. A fireplace in it and everything. That's where the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">kids hung out. And it wasn't really a pizza parlor, but it was kind of a pizza parlor sandwich</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">place.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">It was our high school days, and it closed, I'm not sure exactly when, but became Einan's</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Funeral Home. It went from the restaurant to Einan's Funeral Home. And then Einan's, of</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">course, moved out on the bypass.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But the Spudnut shop, it's bigger now than it was. It used to just be just a few booths. But I can</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">remember Spudnuts were, let's say</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">, $0.10. And for a Spudnut ala mode</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that was a Spudnut</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">with soft ice cream on it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that was $0.15. And if you had $0.15 for that, you was in pretty good</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">shape, because we didn't have money like that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And there was another place just two doors down from that that was the Fission Chips. But it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was interesting the way they spelled fission. It was fission, like nuclear. It was Fission Chips.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">You can see some old pictures of the Spudnut shop, and just a couple doors down, you'll see</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the Fission Chips. But we'd hang out in the Spudnut Shop before the movie, and then maybe</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">go there after the movie. And that's just where everyone hung out.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">When we had a car later, more in our high school years, we hung out at a place called Skip's.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">It was where Les Schwab is now. That was kind of the hangout there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I don't know if you want this on there. It's not very nice. But Skip's, there was a young girl</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">worked there with a cleft palate. One the guys that we kind of ran with, he had a cleft palate</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">also. He was about three years older than me. But he pulled in there, him and friends, and she</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">said in her cleft palate</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> way</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">, ,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ay</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> I help you? He said yeah, give me a such and such. And she got</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">mad, y</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ou don't have to </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">make fun of me!</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Because she though he was just making fun of her.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Kind of a sad story, but kind of humorous also.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">The movies was a big part of life. Of course, swimming. We used to swim in the Yakima a lot.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And the old pool, what we used to call the big pool, down in what's now Howard Amon Park</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">used to be Riverside Park</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">there was a swimming pool there. And the flood of '48, '47-'48, it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">flooded the park. And so they done away with that pool and built the present one.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">That flood was quite a deal. I can remember going</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the b</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ridge</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> was out</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">going out of</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Richland, </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">they had a pontoon bridge. And that causeway wasn't there then. It was just flat. But</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I thought that was so neat. We was going across the bridge, and you see pontoons all the way</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">across it with lumber to drive on. And that always impressed me.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Down around </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">Gowen</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> and things, I can remember the basements flooded from that flood. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">it was quite a flood. That's when they built the dam or dike around Richland and Kennewick</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and so on.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> The—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I was thinking of something else, and lost it. But no, the flood was quite an event. I worked with</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">a guy named Ralph Schafer, who had a private pilot's license, and they hired him as a bus</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">driver. But they let him go from bus driving long enough, because the only way to the airport at</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the time was to fly from Richland to Pasco. So they hired him to ferry people to the Pasco</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">airport in his private plane, because basically there was no way out of Richland</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> until they put</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that pontoon bridge in.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I wonder if you could talk about</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">obviously you went through school here. D</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">o you have any </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">memories</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">there were also some residents that were here pr</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ior to 1943, that were still in </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">school here, that were moved off of their family lands. Did yo</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">u go to school with anybody who had memories of </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that, that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> you recall?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Not to my knowledge. You hear all kinds of stories and things that I don't know. I know I've</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">heard that one family</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">or some people, I'll say</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">whe</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">n they were, quote, kicked out</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> of White</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Bluff</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">s</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Hanford area, they moved to Prosser, Sunnyside, somewhere up there, and swore they'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">never set foot in Richland. And whether that's true or not, I don't know. But I know there's hard</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">feelings over it, rightfully so.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But no, I don't know of anyone. I know we had a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> lot of construction workers in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> trailer parks in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">north Richland. There was a big trailer park, and they had an elementary school out there,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">John Ball. And once they got all the houses built that they were going to build, I guess, they</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">closed the trailer park and closed John Ball and had them all into town.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But I can remember living on Thayer, going to school at Old </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">Sacky</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Sacaj</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">awea, the Old</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">Sacky</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that for some reason, for two-three days they sent me to Spalding. I had to walk to</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">school, which was maybe three, </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">four blocks, five blocks. I can remember big piles of dirt,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">having to climb over them to get to school. And the reason for that was they were building the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ranch houses at that time. So I was probably first grade, I'm guessing.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">So they were still building in the lat</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">e </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">'40s, early '50s. In fact, Bauer</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Days and the Richland</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Village came later, after the letter houses. But school</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">no, I honestly can't remember any kids</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">there.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">No problem. We're here to get your memories, so. A bunch of </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">other things I want to ask you. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">One thing, you said your fathe</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">r worked in Hanford until '67.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">He retired.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">He retired in '67. So he was working in the area when Pres</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ident Kennedy came, in 1963. Do </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">you h</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ave any memories of that event?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">No. I was in the Navy then, so no. I know my wife said that she went out to see him. And there</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">were so many people you could hardly see him, but she went out to it. But no, I got out of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Navy in October</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> '63. I was on a train back to Denver to visit relatives.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">It's kind of sad. I was sitting in the club car playing cards with strangers, and the porter came</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">a black fella</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">says,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> [EMOTIONAL]</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> the President's been shot. And we all</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">aww, go on, he's pulling</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> our leg,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">he's joking</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">. Then I says, you don't joke about something like that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">We were somewhere around Wyoming on the train, and then they was able to get a radio</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">station over the PA or whatever it was. Sure enough, a little bit later</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that he had died. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that's how I learned of it. I'll never forget that train ride. Got to Denver, and it was just strange.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Of course. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And we're righ</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">t on the anniversary of it now.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yeah. Yeah. But my dad, I don't know if he went to see him or not. I mean, he was a dyed-in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the-wool Democrat. He came out of the Depression. He was born in '03, so he'd been through</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">a lot. I can remember him saying that he'd vote for a yellow dog before he'd vote for a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Republican. He was the old Democrat.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But he did vote for on</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">e Republican. That was John Dam</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">, who was running for county</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">commissioner. They were personal friends. He said that's the only Republican he'd ever voted</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">for.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">One exception.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">So </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">did you work at Hanford at all?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">You did. So could y</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ou start filling us in on that a little?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I worked 40 years out there. Hired on '65. And luckily </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">my dad was still working, so we </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">overlapped. We were both drivers. And I started out as a l</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">aborer, though they called them </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">servicemen</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">basically a laborer. And I got set up to bus driver. And in '61, </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">had a layoff. And I </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">could have stayed, but I thought, man, le</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">t's see what else is out there. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And I went and worked for Battelle. I was with Battelle f</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">or about 13 years in inhalation </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">toxicology. Long-term study. Plutonium, curium, americium studies on dogs. And in about '84 I</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">quit Battelle and went back to transportation, because money.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> You know that all your </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">college </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">folks know that biology is not real high-paying, unless you're </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">a PhD or something. But a BS in biology's not much. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But no, I really enjoyed that. In fact, when McCluskey's glo</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ve box blew up, about 200</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> A</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">reas </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">were exposed to</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I forget if it was curium or americium, but the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">re hadn't been a lot of studies </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">on those. And like I said, I was working in inhalation toxicolo</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">gy, and we got two or three big </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">contracts right after that to study the health effects </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">of curium and americium through inhalation. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">He was an amazing man, because I worked with </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">PhDs. Immunologists, veterinaries,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">hematologists. You name it, we had the discipline there. Pathologists. And they </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">didn't give him </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">six months to live, with what he got. And he ended up living pro</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">bably 20 years or better. It is </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">quite an amazing story. You can go on the internet and look up</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Atomic Man, and his story's in </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">there.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">We</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> actually interviewed the gentleman who was in charge </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">of the cleanup, cleaning up his hospital room.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yeah. I don't know if it was this guy I worked with, what we called a radiation monitor. Now</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">they're HPTs or something. But he was with him, scrubbing him and things. His name was</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Larry Belt. He'd be a good interview for you.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I worked with Larry for a number of years. He was our radiation monitor when we exposed</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">dogs and so on. But he said, you can't believe the pain this man was in. He said, we had to</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">literally scrub him with brushes, because he had stuff embedded in his face and so on.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Terrible. He says, submerge him and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> scrub him. No, Larry Belt could tell some stories about it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But back to my job. I quit Battelle for financial reasons and went back to driving. Drove a bus</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">for a lot of years. They shut the bus system down, and I went and worked driving a truck, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">drove ERDF trucks hau</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ling the solid waste from out around</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> the river and so on. Did that for a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">number of years and retired. I taught HAZMAT classes for the last abou</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">t ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> years.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But buses were the fun job. A lot of stories there. One of our drivers named Carl Adcock was</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">driving down Delafield, taking the day shift home</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">so </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">it was </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">about four or five in the afternoon</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">a little girl was standing out in the middle of the street playing. About five, six years old.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Stopped his bus, pulled the brake,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> got out and spanked her butt, get out of here!</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Got back in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the bus, and the passengers were just</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">what are you doing? You could get in trouble for that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And it was his daughter.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But no, we've had people have epileptic seizures on the bus. And there's all sorts of things like</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that. A lot of stories.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">You must </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">see a little bit of everything.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Oh, yeah. We had poker games, bridge games, on the buses. They had cardboard</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">tables. Four people would sit down, put</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> their table between the aisles and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> play cards. They had a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">bridge game going from 100F, which was where the animals were before they built 300</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">animal life sciences 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">rea</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">but they had a bridge game that was going steady for at least</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">30, 35 years.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I mean, it was different </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">people. You know, someone would retire, someone else would take</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">their place. But it started out at 100F at lunch break and then on the bus, and it continued.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">When we were at 300 they were still playing. Again, it was different players, but it was the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">same game.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Wow. There's something I wanted to ask you</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> about</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">. Returning back to when you worked in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">inhalation toxicology at Battelle, did you work with the smoking beagles?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yes. That was my first job, was smoking.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">We just interviewed Vanis Daniels--</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Oh, yeah. I know Vanis.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--last week, who worked with the smoking beagles. Can you describe for us the process of</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">getting the beagles to smoke two packs a day?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Well, the hard part's lighting '</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">em</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">. No, the reason for the study</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> as I understood it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> was uranium</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">miners were dying early, and they wanted to know why. Because it could be cigarette smoke--because most of them were smokers</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">uranium ore dust or it could be radon daughters.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And so we had a group of</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I forget now. 70 dogs, 60. Something like that. And 10 of would</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">receive smoke only, cigarette smoke only. They had a table, kind of a horseshoe. The mask fit</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">over their muzzle with a cigarette in there, and like every seventh or tenth breath</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> a little gadget</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">would open and their breath would suck in the smoke.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But then ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> of them would receive uranium ore dust and radon daughters. There was a large</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">chamber that held ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> dogs around it, and up in the top there was a grinder thing that would</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">grind the ore dust and sprinkle it down in. I mean, it wasn't noticeable, it wasn't thick, but it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">in there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And then we</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> had radon. I think it was water bubbled through it that would give the radon gas,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and it would get into the cha</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">mber. And then we had another ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> that would receive cig</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">arette</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and the radon.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And then a control group that didn't receive anything. They were called sham. You'd bring</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">them in, go through all the same routine, but they wouldn't receive anything. And just see what</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the effects were.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And it was a lifespan study, so you'd look at the dosage and how long they lived and what</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">affected them the most. So that's basically what it was.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">One story I heard</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">probably true</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was that the Russians said that our limits were too high,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">should be lower. So that maybe prompted it, I don't know. Then after that when we got to 300</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">A</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">rea, 100</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">-F moved into 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">rea, and they closed 100</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">F down. And then they had a group of</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">just smoking dogs.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And it was more difficult in the sense that we had a mask that fit over their muzzle, and they</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">could trick it. They could breathe o</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ut of the side of their mouth. When they did it at</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> one area they </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">trached</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> them,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and there was no cheating that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">. It was direct. There was no getting around that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I learned a lot. I mean, that was one of the most exciting jobs. And the learning curve was just</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">like that. I really learned a lot about physiology and biology and chemistry. You work there that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">long, and you learn a lot.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Because part of my job was necropsy</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">or what they call autopsy, but </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">necropsing</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> the dogs.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And we always said we took everything but the bark. I mean we literally disarticulated them</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and took every piece that they had. Every organ, every bone, separated it. The reason for that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">we wanted to know where the plutonium or curium or whatever went to in the body.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Where was the body burden? Was it in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> the lungs, was it in the bones?</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And interestingly enough, we exposed Pu-238 and 239, and the 238 would be a bone-seeker.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">The bones would have high doses. But in 239, the bones hardly got anything. It was all soft</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">tissue. So they learned a lot from that, as far as where these elements</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">what they seek. The</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">target organs, if you will. I don't know if all that should go in this.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Fascinating. I really love hearing about it. Could you talk a little bit about</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">obviously, during</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">those times, security and secrecy was still very much a part of working at Hanford. Did that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> impact</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> your work at all?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Oh, a lot. You know, being raised</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">from my oldest memories, it was secure.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And I can remember when I was probably about 10, 11, 12 years old I went in for a library</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">card here in Richland. They asked who my dad worked for, and I was scared to tell them.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Because the security</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">my dad never told me what was going on out there. And I knew security</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was a big deal. And I says, I don't kno</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">w. I kind of knew, but I--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And she says, well, what does he do?</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And I says, well, he drives. So then she wrote down General Electric.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But no, I mean, it was paramount </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">even as a kid. I can remember—and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> this </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">is </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">kind of funny</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">hindsight</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">but kind of put yourself in that t</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">imeframe--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I can remember calling my brother who</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was seven, eight, nine years old</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">would have been in the early '50s, McCarthy era</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I can</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">remember calling my brother a dirty communist. And my dad just came unglued. He would</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">rather have me call him S.O.B. than that, because that wasn't something you messed with in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the early '50s, with</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> the FBI and everything else.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But I mean, security was bred into you, I guess. And when I hired on, it was still, but not like it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was. But many of us still had that same mentality. I can remember when they started releasing</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">things to the public. That always bothered me, because this is secure, and people don't have</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the need to know a lot of this stuff.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Security was a big deal. I mean, you didn't go anyplace without a security badge. They could</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">stop you, search your car, and everything else. So it was a high priority.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">There was seclusion areas within the area. You might get out in the area, but you might not be</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ab</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">le to get into a certain area. When you</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> got in that area, you couldn't get into another area, like</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">dash-5 or Z-Plant or </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">RE</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">DOX or PUREX</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">. You needed extra security on your badge to get in these</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">places. So security was very tough.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Could you talk a little bit about how Hanford was overall as a place to work? Anything you</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">found particularly challenging or very rewarding about your time in the area?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I think it was great. You know, let's face it,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> was great for a lot of people that worked here. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">mean, good pay—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">relatively good pay, and a lot of people raised their families and sent them to</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">school on this pay out here. And as far as working out there, we really had fun in the early</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">days.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And by the early days, I mean when I hired on. Because I felt very lucky that when I hired on,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">most of the old-timers were still working. And by old-timers I mean them that hired in the '40s.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">So a lot of the stories, a lot of things that they knew and interesting things that they talked</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">about, I was privy to. And that was great.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And it was, to me, really a fun place to work. I really enjoyed it. Later I can remember saying</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">more</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> than once in the '80s or '90s</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">, this isn't fun like it used to be. And it wasn't. But</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">you know, I was younger then, and that made a difference. I was about 21, 22 when I hired</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">on. And so times changed.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I think in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">early days</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">by that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> my early days</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">there was what we call maybe some dead</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">wood. And they might have five people to do a job for two people. But I mean, it was good, it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was job security. Well, then came the cuts and so on.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I think that made it a little </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">different, because</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">one thing that's bothered me over the years,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">there's been layoffs. But you can check the records. Many times after these layoffs, within six</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">months they're calling them back, because work has to be done. We might cut 500 people, but</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that job is still there, so they called a portion of them back. Which</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> to me</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> doesn't make sense.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But I don't think there's the fat out there that there was at one time.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Is there anything I haven't asked you about that you'd like to talk about? Any other stories that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">stand out?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I think the racial thing was a big story in the early days because there wasn't that many black</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">people working out there. And I can remember us</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I mentioned earlier that Richland didn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">have hardly any blacks. We had one black I'm aware of. He was a shoeshine guy at the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">Ganzel's</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> barbershop. His picture is still in there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But I can remember</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I must</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> have</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> been six, seven years old</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I saw my first black person. I was in a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">car downtown with my mom. And I saw him, and I just saw his hands and face. And I can</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">remember wondering, I wond</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">er if his whole body is that way—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">we just didn't see them.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">We had two black guys in high </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">school. C.W. and Norris Brown, who was t</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">errific basketball players. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the main reason their family moved was because of those two boys. It was a different time</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">then.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I don't know it should go on record, because I don't know if it's true or not, but talking about</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the early people that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> worked there, one of the stories that I heard</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and like I say, whether it's</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">true, I have no idea. But they were out working, and they had a burn barrel. It was very cold. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">barrel full of wood and so on, a burn barrel. The construction workers were huddled around it,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and this one colored individual this kind of bulled his way in. He wanted to get up to the front.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And the story goes</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">whether, again, true or not</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> I don't know</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">a carpenter took his hammer</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and ended it. And that wouldn't surprise me, though I don't know if it's true or not. Because</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">there was prejudice. A lot of the people that came here were from the South, and it was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">different lifestyle. I know that they had separate camps for the blacks and the whites. And it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was segregated.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">So I can remember when I was driving the bus here, we only had</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">to my recollection</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">one</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">black in all of transportation. There may have been more, but I think only one. And it wasn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">until probably '63 or '64 that they really started recruiting blacks.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I understand there were labor organizers and people who came in with the NAACP and that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">sort of thing to sort of assess conditions, which would have been about the time you were</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">working in the 100 and 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">reas. Do you have any recollections of that?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Well, the one black that I told you about was a service</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">man—l</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">abor. Same group I was in. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">he was the head of the local NAACP. His name was McGee. And the way you became a driver</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was seniority. In other words, if this driver retired and you were next in seniority, you'd get that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">job.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Well, he was the next one up, as a laborer, for a driving job. They wouldn't give it to him, for</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">obvious reasons. Well, he fought it through the NAACP and he ended up becoming a driver.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But they was not going to give him that job because of his race.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Battelle, to their credit, </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> the first ones to make an overt effort to hire black people. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that's where</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">gentlema</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">n you mentioned earlier. And Battelle had</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">not overwhelming, but a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">number of blacks working for them. And in inhalation toxicology we had a number in animal</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">care as well as in the crafts. So I would say from '63 on, it started changing.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">So this is</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> kind of my last question</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">we'll have students accessing these interviews. Most of my</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">students now are too young to have remembered the Cold War. It's sort of an older--</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">So maybe if you could just talk a little bit about what it was like being part of this Cold War</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">effort, and what you'd like students or future generations to know about contributions to that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">process.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Yeah. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I know there's different views on this, but I feel very strongly about</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">because I knew a lot of</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">GIs from that time frame—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">had two uncles that were in the war. And you know, the atomic</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">bombs, and we made the plutonium here for the bomb, literally ended the war.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> am a firm believer</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">had we had to invade, there'd been hundreds of thousands on</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">both sides killed. And they talk about the badness, rightfully so, of the atomic bomb. But you</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">look at the conventional bombing of Germany, and it was as bad or worse as the atomic</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">bombs. The firebombing of Tokyo. Things like that. So as bad as the atomic bomb was, it did</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">end the war. You'd had to live through it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Now, as far as the Cold War goes, you know</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> the place wasn't supposed to last much more</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">than ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> years. And that's what everyone thought. Well, then the Russians got the bomb. That</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">changed things a little bit.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And it was scary. I mean, like I said </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">earlier, me calling my brother</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> communist. I wasn't old</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">enough to really realize what was going on, but I can remember</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">would've been during the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Korean War</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">my dad came to my brother and I and said, I want to know where you guys are</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">all the time, because we might have </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">to leave town in a hurry. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">hat was the mentality of</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that time.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">We had air-raid sirens throughout the town. I can remember every</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I believe it was Monday at</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> o'clock, they would go off to test. But there was one right behind Jason Lee, where I was</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">going at the time, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> it was loud. Every</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I think </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">it was Monday or Tuesday, at ten </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">o'clock</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">they'd go off. Because we literally were on standby. We didn't know what was going to happen.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And the Korean War and then the McCarthy era, it was a scary time for adults. You know, as a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">kid, you didn't notice it, other than watching others. But I think Hanford had a lot to do with</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ending the war.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Which ushered in the Cold War, because of the </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">proliferation</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> of the weapons. And you have to</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">give credit to whomever for tearing down the wall, for bringing somewhat of a peace in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">world—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I say somewhat.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I think it was our spending billions of dollars building up our</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">you know the old saying, peace</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">through streng</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">th. That's what Reagan did. H</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">e was a big spender, but he got the job</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">done.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But Hanford was unique, because I can still remember there was anti-aircraft placements out</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">there. When I hired on, all the old track houses were still there. I worked on a fuel truck, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">we </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">would fuel here and there and then we'd go out into the desert area, if you will, and look</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">at these old houses that were still standing. And the old icehouse was still there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And a lot of these buildings were still there in the '60s. And why they had the need to tear them</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">all down, I don't know. I think it was a shame. But they tore them all down other than the bank</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and the school. I believe about all that's left.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">N</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">o, it was a different time. Like I say, I can still remember my dad telling us both, I want to</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">know where you are in case we have to leave town. I mentioned earlier, the FBI</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">it was not</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">unusual to have an FBI agent knock at the door and talk to my folks about so-and-so. We had</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">neighbors that lived in the same house</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—i</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">n our A house, our neighbors there</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was there one day and gone the next. It wasn't unusual to</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">you're out of here.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237872738">
<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Certainly a different time.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I want to thank you so much for coming in and sharing your memories with us. I really</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">appreciate it. We'll film all these good</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ies you brought us, if that's okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yep.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237872738">
<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--before we have to go.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:57:05
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
194 kbps
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
Reduction-Oxidation Plant (REDOX)
Plutonium Uranium Extraction Plant (PUREX
100 Area
200 Area
300 Area
100 F Area
Z Plant
Dash 5 Plant
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1945-2013
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1965-2005
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Belt, Larry
Daniels, Vanis
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Leonard Peters
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Leonard Peters conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-06-21: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
11/19/2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
100 Area
100 F Area
200 Area
300 Area
Dash 5 Plant
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Kennewick (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Richland (Wash.)
swimming
Z Plant
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F0a5f95a067cc15c8bfd7705114ca6269.jpg
9e12f751613b211e66d587db18607e0a
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F99406b7ecf1307fceba5c8061e9a614a.mp4
c229c9e2af641822b5c55f7020ad8681
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Myles Pasch
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX32632438">
<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span class="SpellingError SCX32632438">Pasch_Myles</span></span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></strong></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Bauman</span>: Okay. All right. My name's Robert Bauman. And I'm conducting an oral history interview with Mr. Myles Pasch, today June 11</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX32632438">th</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">, 2013 and we are conducting this interview on the campus of Washington State University, Tri-Cities, and I'll be talking to Mr. Pasch about his experiences working at the Hanford site. So good morning, and thank you for being willing to have me talk to you today and be our first subject in this project. Appreciate it.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Myles Pasch</span>: Welcome.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: So what if start by just having you tell me how and why you ended up coming to the Tri-Cities area to work at the Hanford site. How did that come about?</span><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: Well I come about, my mother was working here when I got out of the Army in '45. Why, she already had a job lined up for me out here, and so come out here to take that job that they</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">the job act</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ually didn't materialize, but I </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">start working with the electrical distribution as a lineman's helper, because</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> of the experience in the Army. </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">I was a communications system in the Army, and so I started out in the line distr</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ibution as a ground man for the </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">line gang, and about six months later why the Corps of Engineers turned the </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">telephone system over to DuPont and</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> with the telephone experience I had, they</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">I mean if you put me in th</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">e telephone system and I worked </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">in there then until I</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">until my retirement. And various jobs from cable splicer helper, to cable sp</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">licer, to lineman </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">and supervisor of the installation and maintenance</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> crews, and then supervisor's office. Finally end up in </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">engineering section by the time I retired.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">So you worked in a lot of different places, but mostly on electrical and phone.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Just about all of it on phones. Phones, phones, and phone lines.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">And what sort of</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> job did your mother have when you arrived?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: She was in the T Plant, 221-T P</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">lant </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">cleaning instruments and that </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">from the separations group when </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">they</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">vessels that they had to use for transferring mater</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ials and so forth and she was clean</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">up on that.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, okay. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">nd when had she begun work here?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">She began work there when they went into production. She worked at Hanford </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">during construction in the mess </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">hall, and then she transfer</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">red</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> to DuPont and started working soon as</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">right after they </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">went into production instead of </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">construction. My dad also worked there. Both in construction and in</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">and he went </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">into patrol, the Hanford patrol, </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">when they went into production.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">And do you know how your parents ended up coming here for work?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">I really don't. I was in the Army at the time that they did come out here, and so I'm not sure how</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">other than I</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">know they were living in northern Wisconsin. There wasn't much going on there, and so I know that they tried to</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">find something in the war industry to</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">work on, so they applied for and came out here to Hanford.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX32632438">
<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">And did both of your parents continue working at Hanford after the war also?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: Yes. Fact is,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> I think my dad retired in '52. My mother retired when DuP</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ont phased out and they went to </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">General Electric. She phased out with DuPont, but Dad stayed in until 1951</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> actually, when he retired.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">So you said you initially worked for the Army Corps of Engineers and then DuPont?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">No. I worked for DuPont when I hired on in July of '45, but the Corps of Engi</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">neers was running the telephone </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">systems at that time rather than DuPont, and they turned the telephone systems ov</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">er to DuPont in January of '46, </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">and at that time I transferred right over to the telephone section and worked there until retirement.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay. </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">So what might a typical work day have bee</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">n for you back in the late 1940s early 1950s? What sorts of things </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">might you have done in a typical workday? Where might you</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> have gone on the Hanford site?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Well, we had to go wherever they needed telephone service</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> and it was installation</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> of the wiring, telephones, and </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">maintenance of them. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> so wherever</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> they needed telephones, we went. I worked in</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> the outer </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">areas all th</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">e time, very little in the 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">rea. Most of my work was in the two Eas</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">t-West, and the 100 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">reas, </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">wherever they needed a telephone repaired or put in, why</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> there's where we worked.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">How large of a crew or group did you work with usually, would be out there doing telephone repairs?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Usu</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ally there was about eight or ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> men on the telephone installation and repai</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">r group, and there was anywhere </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">from</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> one to four cable splicer crew</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">s going splicing cable. </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Especially when they really </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">start opening up in the late '40s early '50s, and they start increasing the size and that of the telephone systems.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">So I imagine over the 37 years</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">is that how long?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Yes, 37.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Imagine over the course of those 37 years the telephone systems changed quite a bit.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Yes, we started out with</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">when the Corps of Engineers had it, they </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">started out with common battery </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">switchboards with operators on them in each area, and each area had a 100 or</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> 200 line switchboard, whatever </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">they n</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">eeded. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">nd when they turned it over to DuPont</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> though</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> they'd already had </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">installed </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> automatic switching </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">station. So right after they turned it over to DuPont, why it switched over to autom</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">atic switching stations and the </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">operators were taken off the project. And then it wasn't many years later they ha</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">d to increase the size of that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">They went from a </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span class="SpellingError SCX32632438">Strowger</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> switching system to a North Elect</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ric all relay switching system. </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">And just in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">well not what, in the early '80s or late '70s</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> why</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> they switched over t</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">o a computer-controlled </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">switching system, which is what they are still using out there now is a computer-con</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">trolled. But they went from say </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">100 lines in each area to several thousand lines and now</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">, and the increase in people and buildings </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">that were put in during that time. During that period of time. When I first star</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ted there, there was only three </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">reactors and the East-West A</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">rea each had a separations building, but the only one</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> that was actually in use was the </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">2</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">21-T P</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">lant.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: So</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> were some of those buildings more challenging to work with install or fix phone lines?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Yeah</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> some of them we had to get special permits, special clothing</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> monitor buttons</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">, and pencils, and badges to go </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">into them. Probably only allowed 30 minutes in some spots. They were restricte</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">d to how long you could work in </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">there and so forth, because of the radiation.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Mm-hmm. </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">So did you have a radiation monitor or some sort when you did that?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">We had a radiation monitor. Our badge was a radiation monitor. Whenever we </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">went into an area, why, we got a </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">couple of pencils that you put in your pocket that rated different types of radiation</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">. Some buildings they had to </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">have even another different pencil in your pocket in order to work there. Bec</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ause there was different types, </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">different radiations.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">And, so</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> you mentioned you worked in T-P</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">lant? In there as well?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Oh</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> yes</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> I worked</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">fact is that was </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">one of our most challenging ones. We wen</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">t there to work, and you had to </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">drive dressed in doubl</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">e protective coveralls and </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">boots, and gloves, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> hoods, mask, and then when you went out,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> you had to strip all that and you couldn't drag your tools out with you. Th</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ey stayed, either stayed or got </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">thrown away. So in that one you were very limited on how long you coul</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">d work in the canyon. That was in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">canyon itself.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Yeah. </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Now for the site itself, when you first started working at Hanford site</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> given high sec</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">urity and secrecy, did you have </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">to get a</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> special security clearance, or--?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">I had a Q clearance all while I worked there. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> had a Q clearance, which allowed you</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> in</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">to everything except top secret </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">buildings. The only thing about Hanford there is a need to know basis. You never </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">learned anything about anything </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">else that was going on except if you were doing it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">When you first started, were you</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">how did you get to Hanford? Were you able to dr</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ive your own vehicle or did you </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">have to take the bus?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">We took a bus out. You could drive your own vehicle off the area, park it outsi</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">de the fence and that, but most </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">people rode the bus out. They had bus transportation to all areas.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">And did that continue for most of the time that you worked at Hanfor</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">d, or did that start to change</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">That continued. Most of the time I worked at Hanford</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> except the last few years and I was man</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ager or supervisor </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">of the business of</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">fice. I was working in the 700 Area in the Federal B</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">uilding. Was </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">then based in there. So at that </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">time I </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">no longer had to ride buses out. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ut then the las</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">t three four years I worked, I was back out in the areas </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">again, but of course I was driving company car out for instructing peopl</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">e on the new telephone systems. </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">They'd set up meetings and I'd go out and instruct them on how it worked and what they could</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">what they could </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">use of the communication systems. There was a lot of stuff they weren't allow</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ed to use by DOE because it was </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">expensive and unnecessary. So some of the things that they could have had and u</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">sed, why, they weren't available </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">to the plant operations. Some of the top management had them, but a lot of the s</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ystems was not available to the </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">regular</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">m</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ost of the divisions</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Now because of the security at Hanford, and secrecy, were there any sort of special phone</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">concerns about</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">communication, using telephones. Was there any special security or anything like that, related to telephones?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: They </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">always stressed security. That, talk and sink your ship, and so fort</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">h and that, to keep people from </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">talking, and of course they had monitoring systems that they</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">the FBI had one set u</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">p in one of the buildings there </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">where they could access any phone in the plant if they had the nee</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">d to monitor to see if anything </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">was going on that shou</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ldn't be going on. And they then</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> recorded them on little old</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> spools of wax. Little drums of </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">wax recordings that they used to use way back when.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Really? [LAUGHTER] Wow, t</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">hat's interesting. Did that impact your work at all, the conn</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ections at all, or how you did the telephone lines at all?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">It just gave us more work. I mean we had to</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">and that was top secret, we were n</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ot allowed to discuss that with </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">anyone that this was set up was there</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> available to the government.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: I’m going</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> to shift a little bit now and tal</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">k a little bit about the area, t</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">he Tri-Cities area</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">. When you first arrived where did </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">you live? And what were your first impre</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ssions of Richland or the area </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">here?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Well it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">lived in a</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">with my folks. They'd rented a three bedroom prefab,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> because they wanted us to come </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">and live with them while I was there. So we lived in that prefab for the first six mo</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">nths, then we moved into one of the B </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">hou</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ses down the south end of town. </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">And it was pretty desolate, lot of wind, no trees.</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> And I thought every time the wind blew</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">, why, they'd lose about half their—half their employees would terminate—</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">termination winds they used to call them.</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> And of course the</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">none of </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">the cities were any too large at that time, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">nd they just grown a lot since. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ut Richland was all government owned, all the homes and </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">everything was government owned </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">until about '53 they sold the</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">about '52 or '53 they started selling the houses</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> to the resident who was in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">house. An</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">d I moved out just before that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">We'd moved out and went to Kennewick, so we didn't buy one of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">one of the plant houses.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Now had you</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">did you know anything about the area before you came here? Had</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> your parents told you anything </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">really about--</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Not a thing. Just come for the job.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">S</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">o what was the community like i</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">n t</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">hose early years in the late ‘40s early ‘50</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">s?</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> Because</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> I would assume mo</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">st people had </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">come from all over the United States to work. What was that like?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: They come all </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">from all over from the United States and they</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">everythin</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">g in town was government owned. </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">So they had a big recreation building. They had two theaters and they had the</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> recreation building where they </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">would contract some major musicians to come in and play, oh</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> probably once a mo</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">nth they'd come in and play for a dance there for the people. </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">About the only other</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">well, we had the bowling alley and one tavern in town.</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> [LAUGHTER] Yeah,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> t</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">he bowling alley and the tavern </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">and two theaters. So a lot of the recreation were just people parading up and</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> down the streets on a </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Sunday when they weren't working.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">So there were theaters to go to. Were there any parades or those sorts of events </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">going on in the summer </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">at all?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Every year they had parades that the government sponsored. Either parades or art in the park and such as that,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> that</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> they got started. So there was quite a bit going on, and like I say, every so often they'd get a big band,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">one of the big bands in </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">to </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">play for the dances. And eac</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">h department would manage to </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">make a</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">couple of parties every year to keep their people happy.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">You mentioned the termination winds and often a lot of people came and went</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">. What made you stay </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">and your family stay there?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Oh, I guess I liked the job.</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> It was just what I had always had been doing was tele</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">phone work. So I liked the job, </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">and </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">the </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">pay wasn't too bad. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">nd we had all—a </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">lot of free time. I mean on the weeke</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">nds and that, and it wasn't too </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">far to go out to find recreation in the areas. Fishing or boating or just sightseeing. So we enjoyed</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">nd we </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">enjoyed the climate and that here compared to in some other areas we lived in.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Not quite as cold as Wisconsin</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">, I guess</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Yes. That's--</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">I wonder if there were any major events or things that happened while you were wo</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">rking at Hanford that stand out </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">in your memory. I know President Kennedy was here in 1963</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> right, </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">to sort of open the N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">eactor. I wonder if you </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">remember anything about that or are there any other events that really stand out?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">That was one time that they even let school out so that school kids could go out there</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">. And our son was in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">band, so he was out there playing, </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">and the whole family was out</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> at the N</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> R</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">eactor when President Kennedy </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">was there. Were able to</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> spend the afternoon out there. </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Fact is, th</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ey even got a chance then to take them</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> by the building I was based in at th</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">e time, which is out the old BY </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">telephone building. Got to take the family by there, and so we had a family picnic </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">there at the BY b</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">uilding on the </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">way home from the outing.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">That's probably the</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> first time family members had a chance to be out--</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">That's the first time they were allowed out there at all. I mean</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> if</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> you didn't have a</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> badge you didn't go out there, </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">unless you got special badge to go out into the area. But they had the chec</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">kpoints at 300 are and out at--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">on the highway coming in f</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">rom the Yakima area</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">the highway where that </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">highway 24's junctions with it. </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">They had a gate out there, and one out by the</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">before you </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">got to 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">rea and you had to have a badge to </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">go through there.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay. And w</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ere you able to drive your cars out for that event?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">You could, but they were inspected. Trunks inside and outside as you went through, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">but you could drive </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">your car out. But most people did use the bus.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">I wonder if</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">what would you like future generations to know about Hanford? What it was l</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ike to work there. What it </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">was like living in the Tri-Cities, especially in the 1940s and 195</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">0s and those years in early </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Cold War years.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Well, I don't know.</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> That's </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">other than the fact, that it was one of the main things that stopped</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> the </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">World War very soon. I mean they saved</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">people worry about them having killed a </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">lot of people, but they saved a </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">lot lives. And if you look at it in the long run, well, they saved one amount of l</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ives with the production at the </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Hanford plant.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">It seems </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">like</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> your work experience in 37 years was generally very good. You liked your job</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> is that right?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: Most of the time i</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">t was good, yes. It was</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">there was </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ups and dow</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ns, but it was as a rule it was </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">pretty good. It was a good job and it was a sure job. I mean as long as you d</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">id your work and kept your nose </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">clean, why</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> you had a job for as long as you wanted to stay. I could've stayed on be</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">yond retirement age if I wanted to,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> but I was ready to go traveling. </span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">And how about the Tri-Cities as a place t</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">o live? You mentioned you moved to Kennewick in the early 1950</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">s?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">We moved to Kennewick in 19</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">52, and lived there until 2011. I moved back into Richland, about four or five blocks </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">away from where we first started out in Richland.</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> So I liked it in Kennewick, but it'</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">s crowded. We found a real nice </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">location out in Richland that we liked and I built a home there, and we</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">I moved out there. </span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Well that's really interesting about your work and seeing the different changes right, with the telephone sys</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">tem </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">and changes at Hanford. So you started wit</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">h DuPont. What other contractor</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">s did you work for over the years?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Well, DuPont, and General Electric, and ARCO, and Westinghouse, and main one</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Rockwell. Fact is, I've spent a lot of time—</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Rockwell was one of the last ones that I just transferred over to </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Westinghouse as Rockwell phased </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">out just about t</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">he time they were phasing out </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">and </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">combining a lot of the companies. Rockwell went out and </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">I've worked with</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">or with Westinghouse for just a short time, then just to carry over until they got it</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">got all their </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">programs going again right. There's a lot of change every five years a</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">t least, why, they were changing </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">contractors, and was always a big change.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Was there a contract you worked for that you really enjoyed working for maybe more than some of the others?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Oh, no. They were all pretty good. I mean they were</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">had a job to do, and I was working in the same </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">telephone department all the time. We just transferred under different managem</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ent, and seems like all of those </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">contractors were nice to work for. I mean</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">, they were all—</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">seemed just one as good as the other.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay. </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Is there anything that I haven't asked you about? Or any memories that you have </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">of either working at Hanford or </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">living in the Tri-Cities that you think</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> i</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">s important to share that I haven't asked you abo</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ut yet, or haven't talked about </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">yet?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Not off hand. I can't think of anything.</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay. </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Well, I really appreciate you coming and sharing your memories and your experien</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ces working at the Hanford site </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">and being a part, especially of those early years at Hanford. I really appreciate it, and thanks very much.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Other than being a little nervous</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">, why,</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> I enjoyed it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX32632438">
<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Thank you.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man two</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">T</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">he only thing I can think of—well you--</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Woman one</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Last week my daughter came here when we came for the </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">chancellor </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">thing. And she's 15, and they had studied</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">it somewhat in school, but she had some really strange thoughts, and not really </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">posi</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">tive thoughts about things that </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">had happened here. And I was won</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">dering if maybe you, since</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> you lived through it, if you could make that</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">—the </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">reality of life at that time more real to them?</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">I don't know, it just</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">there was a lot of restrictions and that, that you had to conside</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">r, going through that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">And the security involved with it was very strict, but I can see where it was very nece</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ssary. Any of that restrictions </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">and the production that they </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">made, like I say, saved a lot of lives </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">overall</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">, if you'd have continued </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">with the war as it was going. Why, it brought a stop to it in a hurry. And I think we shou</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">ld be thankful that it did that </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">rather than carry on for invasion of Japan and whatever would have happened after that.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX32632438">
<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">Well </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">again, thank you very much. I really</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> appreciate you being willing to be the first p</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">erson to be interviewed as part of this.</span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"> You get all the little nuances of everything so I really appreciate Mr. Pasch. Thank you very much.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX32632438">
<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pasch</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX32632438">You're welcome.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX32632438">
<p class="Paragraph SCX32632438"><span class="TextRun SCX32632438"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man one</span>: Okay. Stop the tape.</span><span class="EOP SCX32632438"> </span></p>
</div>
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:26:50
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
249 kbps
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
300 Area
100 Area
221-T Plant
700 Area
N Reactor
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1947-2013
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Myles Pasch
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Myles Pasch conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
6/11/2016
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Date Modified
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2016-07-22: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
100 Area
221-T Plant
300 Area
700 Area
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Kennewick (Wash.)
N Reactor
Richland (Wash.)
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Ff3d85bde00e86e0c74863a946d82d95d.jpg
afffa7c79551d98dda0f88b751d2c406
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F8b04b9ce1b21e1ea75e4060d99aac9f3.mp4
50f96b20387d4d3089b3a6aceecfbccc
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Leroy Noga
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX145880437">
<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span class="SpellingError SCX145880437">Noga_Leroy</span></span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"><br /></span></strong></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Leroy Noga</span>: Leroy Noga. But I usually go by Lee all the time.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX145880437">
<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Bauman</span>: And your last name is N-O-G-A?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX145880437">
<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: N-O-G-A, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX145880437">
<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay. All right. My name's Robert Bauman. Today's date is October 15</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX145880437">th</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> of 2013. And we're conducting this interview on the campus of Washington State University Tri-Cities. So let's start if we could just by having you talk about how and why you came to Hanford. When that happened, what brought you here?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: Well, I had hired--in the state of Minnesota. And they painted a picture of all the pine trees and everything, and several of us come out here in 1955. So I drove out here--it was January in '55. And from Spokane to here—it was at night and it was foggy where you could cut it with a knife. I couldn't even see the white line on the side, hardly. Anyway, I stayed at the Desert Motel in Richland. And next morning, got in the car and I see all this stuff that looked like I was on the moon or something. Sage brush. Where's all the pine trees, you know? I couldn't believe it. Everybody's got a picture of Washington with the beautiful pine trees and everything. [LAUGHTER] Including us from Minnesota. Anyway, so then of course I hired in with GE. And stayed in the dorm, men's dorm. And that was another shocker because I'm a ballroom dancer and used to going to several ballrooms in Minneapolis. Big ones--the Prom, the </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Marigold. And I would always never have a problem to pick up a woman--a nice looking woman to dance with. And here everything was--the women were afraid to go out. They stayed in the dorm and there wasn't anybody to dance with. I was very disappointed and I thought, as soon as I get enough money, I'm leaving town, and I'm going on. I was single at the time, of course</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">. But then I went to work in K A</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">rea and K-West. Around suddenly and after I got to see the area a little bit. Of course, I'm from Minnesota, land of the ten-thousand lakes--we actually got a lot more than that. But here it was rivers, and I was unfamiliar with rivers. But after I got acquainted just a little bit, and found out how the hunting was--very good duck hunting and pheasant hunting at the time. I thought, hey, this isn't so bad. And then I tried the river fishing, which was quite different. And that wasn't so bad either. I was able to catch fish. And then I did dance with a local girl that said, well Lee, just stick it out a little while. It kind of grows on you. And I still remember that statement, and I'm still here—</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: --after all this time. And I wouldn't move. Of course the area has changed a lot.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Mm-hmm.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: And we had dust storms then. A couple of us bachelors, we stayed in a Bower Day House. And after one dust storm, I think we had about a half of inch of dust on the floor the next day. And that was typical. They weren't too well built, as far as keeping the dust out. And I can remember another time there living in the same house where we had a big snowstorm and then we got a chinook after that, chinook wind. Which we used to get a lot of those warm chinook winds, of course. And I remember the water had melted so fast, that the water had washed a full six pack right in front of our house. And I thought, well that's nice. [LAUGHTER] And anyway, as far as--you were going to ask me some questions.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Yeah. Well I going to--about how long were you in the dorms then? And then how long did you live in the Bower Day House?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: Well, I was in the dorms--gee, that that's going way back. I don't remember. Maybe a year a year or maybe a little longer. I remember I missed a piano, because I used to play the piano. And I rented a piano and put it downstairs in a dorm. It was kind of something you don't usually do. But I did it anyway and played. And we ate breakfast every morning at the </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Mart which is now the Davidson B</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">uilding, I think it is--right there across from the post office.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: Big mart, everybody was eating there.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: What was Richland like as a community in the 1950s?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: Well, everybody kept their doors open. Never locked them. It was a government town so it was very safe. With no crime like there is now. You remember the officers’ club and stuff out the area where they had--well the government tried to keep us here, and so they had big functions out there. Dances and name performers out there. And I was out there a few times--out here in north Richland. The government, of course, didn't want us to quit. And some of us stuck it out, like myself. And I worked for ten years for GE and then GE pulled out. And that's something that really irritates me to this day because--I don't know if--you probably don't want to televise this, but </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">anyway,</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> I think that was timed. The government always has these contractors come in and then they change. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I was</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">t</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">hey had a ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">yea</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">r contract to be vested. But they</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> had an age clause. Y</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ou had to be 28 years old and I </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">was a one month away from</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">So I either had to go back </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">east and work for GE back there—</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">but I had a family of f</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">our now. And of course I didn't </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">want to go back there and leave my famil</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">y here. So I didn't get vested. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">And then different companies come. And Westinghouse, and on, and on. And every time I really had a nice job</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">—I </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">really loved it--a different company would come in. I had to change com</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">panies or I had to change jobs. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I finally got tired of it and I quit. And I started my own business. And I might mention this--whil</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">e having my own </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">business, I did security systems, and fire systems, and stuff like that. And I was the f</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">irst company that installed the </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">first secur</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ity system out here in the 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">rea. It was ultrasonic</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> over the fuel rod of the pool. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">And so I thought that was something that maybe someone else didn't do out here, related to the area.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">And so what year was that then? Roughly around the time period that you quit and started your own business?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: Well, it had to be after ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> years</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">. I quit—</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I don't remember just exactly what year I quit o</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ut here. I worked for Battelle. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">And then I think Westinghouse come in. I think that's when I quit. Rather than cha</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">nge companies again, I just got </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">tired of it.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Mm-hmm.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Yeah--</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Let's go back--</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">if it's okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> to go back a little bit. You mentioned your first job was to K-West.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">So what sort of job was it? What sort of work were you doing then?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Well I was instrumentation, of course. And did all the instrumentation out there. It was a very--</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I liked it because it </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">was such a variety of different instrumentation. And then some of the reall</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">y nasty work we had to do as an </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">instrument person was go on the rear face with the water dripping down. All dress</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ed up in rain gear, gloves, and </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">everything double, you know. And the radiation was so intense back there tha</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">t you could only spend about 15 </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">minutes, 20 minutes, or something. And you were back there to replace these </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">bad thermal temperature devices on the rear face. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I didn't really like the working in the reactors too much. And I tried to get into the 300</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> A</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">rea labs, which I finally was </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">able to do. They didn't like to let us go out there in areas, but I finally made it. And then we--</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">in the 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">rea that </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">was very interesting, too. Because there we got the moon rocks and we an</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">alyzed those. And I worked with </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">chemical engineers and whatever to get the right instrumentation. Whatever they ne</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">eded to put that stuff together </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">so they could do what they want. It was interesting work.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Yeah, right.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">We had</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> what they called multi-channel analyzers</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> at that time. We didn't have computers yet. It was</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">—the computer </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">age was just starting.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">If we can go back again to talking about working on the rear face of the reactor. Yo</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">u said, you could</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> only be there for </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">about 15 or 20 minutes. Was that only 15, 20 minutes that day, and then you couldn't go back in again that day?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Yeah, you were burned out for--well I can't remember the period. You were b</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">urned out. You couldn't go back </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">there for maybe a month.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Wow. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">And so I assume y</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ou had some sort of dos</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">imeter, or badge, or something like that?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: Yeah, you</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> had pencils and stuff.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Mm-hmm.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Mm-hmm. Which they read when you came off the rear face.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Were there ever any times working there that you had an overexposure, or anything like th</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">at? Or any of your coworkers, </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">or anything along those lines?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Well, I was never overexposed, I don't believe. I think there probably were some incidences but--</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">None that you were--</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">No.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">They were pretty careful--</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">radiation monitoring</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> were pretty careful to always</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> check the time and they always </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">read the dosimeters. And that was pretty well adhered to.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">And then you said you move</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">d to the labs. Is that the 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">rea, or--</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">And you worked there for several years, or--</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: Yeah, I worked there for—I don’t know—eight</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> years or so, maybe. And then when I quit, I came back as the--</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I quit for, I think 12 years,</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> when I had my own business.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Mm-hmm.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">And then I came back as a manual writer. It was an engineer</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">’</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">s title. I f</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">orget the glorified name I got. [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">But it was a manual w</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">riter writing procedures N </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">R</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">eactor. Instrument procedures for the--</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">because I was an </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">instrument person. It was an ideal task for me, as an engineer to write the test procedures for</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> instrumentation. For the instrument people there at N</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> R</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">eactor.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">And which company was that, for then? Which contractor that--</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: Phew. UNC.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">My mind isn't very good as far as old stuff because--</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">That's good.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: I just remember the stuff—</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">lucky to remember the stuff today.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">One of the events--sort of big events in this period--President Kennedy came to visit in 1963. Where you working</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">at--</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Kennedy?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Yeah. President Kennedy.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I remember that.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Were </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">you on-site? Did you see</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> him?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Oh</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I was wondering if you could talk about that at all and describe your memory of that.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Well</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> I just remember that he was here and I saw him. That's about all I remember</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> about it. Yeah. That was quite </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">an event.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Do you remember anything about the day at all, or--</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: Well, e</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">verybody was just really happy and pleased that he came. He was pretty well loved, you know--</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">as a man. </span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I wonder--you mentioned earlier--some of the security at Hanford and obviously</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> it was a place that emphasized </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">security, secrecy. Did that--in what ways did that impact your work at all? T</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">he sort of focus on security or </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">secrecy?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Well</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> I don't know h</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ow far you want to digress from—</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">wherever I want to go?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Wherever you want to go</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">, yeah</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Well talking about security brings up something that I thought I'd mention. And that </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">is after I got to work there at </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">GE for a</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">while, and talking with regional monitoring people, and stuff like that. Th</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ey got to know me, and I got to </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">know them, and they found out that</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> I was interested in old cars—antique cars. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">So one of them told me about--there's an old Chevrolet cab convertible out </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">there in the boonies. Somewhere </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">between H Area and F A</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">rea. And I said, oh really? And I thought the guy was</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> just</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> blow</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ing wind maybe. I didn't really </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">believe him at the time. But then I got still interested. I got to talking to him an</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">d maybe another monitoring guy, </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">and it sounded like </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">there really was one out there. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">So I looked into it further and I thought, well if there is, how do I get it? How can I ge</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">t it? So I talked to Purchasing </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">and Purchasing says, well you'll have to bid on it. And I said, can I bit on it? And if</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> so, I don't even know if I can </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">find it. I said, is there a</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> minimum that I can bid for it? </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">No, no min</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">imum. Just fill out the papers. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">So I bid a minimum of $25. And I got a security clearance to go off the road. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ecause this was just out in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">boonies. No roads, just out in the sage brush to look for it. Somewhere </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">between H A</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">rea and Rattlesnake. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">So I asked a friend of mine who had a Jeep if he'd go out there with me. And we used his Jeep and</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> we hooked a </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">trailer behind, and off we went. We got permission to go out there. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">nd we drove around quite a bit. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">And we finally found it. And we winched it on. And then I thought, well now I wonder if I</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> can</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">get a title for this thing from the state? [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">But being the contract from the government, and that I bought it--the state didn't hesitate</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> at all. And I got a title for it. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">And this is one of the originals from an</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> old homestead out there. You could still see some remains of the </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">homestead. Of course the government</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> went and destroyed everything. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">And most of the automobiles--I don't know if you know this--but most of the automobiles that were out there, the</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">government made a special attempt to destroy</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> all the</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> engines. They took sledgehammers and busted the engines up.</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">They made special attempts to--so the automobiles would never be used again. I don't know why, but that's what</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">they did.</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">This one somehow escaped. And the engine was still in it. But the head was off of it. But it was still </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">restorable. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I have not restored it yet, after all these years. But now comes a time when I'm tr</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ying to get somebody interested </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">in it. And if so, restore it and give it to him. Because I don't have that many years</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> left. I'm hoping that somebody </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">might help me a little bit financially to do it. And I would then donate it to whoever.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">But you still have it after all these years?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I still have it. Yup. It's been in the garage for all these years.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Yeah. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">That's interesting that it was a car from one of the old town si</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">tes—</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">old home sites t</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">here that was still sitting out </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">there.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Yes. </span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I had not heard that.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Yes. I brought it up because it is a very rare incident. And I think I'm probably</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> the one and only that has done </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">something like this. At least maybe the first one.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">And I'm also the first one, like I say, to put a security system out here.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Mm-hmm. So thinking back on your years working at Hanford, what were--</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">and maybe you've already talked </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">about this--what were the most challenging aspects of your work there and the </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">most rewarding parts of working </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">at Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Well, most challenging? Hmm. Oh</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> you know</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> it was all challenging, rea</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">lly. [LAUGHTER] It was very different. The instrumentation—w</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">hen I first went out there, I was not a technician. I was a trainee--I had to be a trai</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">nee first. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">my technician was not all that</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">didn't seem like he was there that long either. He didn</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">'t know all that much either, I </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">don't think.</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">And I can remember one incident</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> they had an instrument that had mercury in it. We had to be caref</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ul how you </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">calibr</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ated it. And it wasn't my fault, because</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> I was just a trainee. But my technician blew th</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">e mercury out. It went all over </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">the control room which was not a big--nobody really appreciated that too much.</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> That was challenging. That was </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">kind of challenging. You had to be very careful, as an instrument person, with wha</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">t you did. And if you worked in </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">the control room, like in--what's the first--the reactor they're making a--</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: B</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> R</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">eactor?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: B</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> R</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">eactor. If you worked back there at the panel gauges, you had to be very</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> carefully that you didn't bump </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">something</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> because they were</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> very sensitive. Any movement, </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">jar or something--</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">and you could trip the reactor </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">while the reactor was up. And you had to calibrate some of those things while the reactor w</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">as up. You actually </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">had a lot of responsibility there. If you knocked the reactor down--and you could--</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">you didn't hear too many good </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">comments. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Yeah. How about the most rewarding part of your work in Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Well, when I</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I don't know. There was a lot of rewarding things. When I came back to work again after a 12 year</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">hiatus, s</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">o to speak, they closed N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">eactor down, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">nd I had to find another job. There weren't that many</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> jobs available at PUREX</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> because there</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> was a lot of people looking. PUREX</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> had a job </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">fo</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">r a project engineer job. And I </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">interviewed for it and I said, well I'd kind of like this. But I don't think I'm qualified. I said, </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I'd like to have it, but I'll be </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">honest with you, I don't think I'm qualified. Because I don't have a degree.</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">A chemical degree is what you should have had for that job. But down the sen</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ior engineer that was doing the </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">hiring--he called me and he said, Lee, you've got the job if you want it. So I thoug</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ht, what the heck, I'll try it, you know? [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">But I was able to find the niche there where I was needed. And it just so happe</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ned they were replacing all the </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">electrical main panels, you know--and everything like that. So I was then the p</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">roject engineer for doing that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">And the people from Kaiser, who actually came out and did tests and everything--I</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> had to approve everything that </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">t</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">hey wrote up. And from the PUREX</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> standpoint to see if it was safe, and so on, and s</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">o forth. That was rewarding. It was a challenging job. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">And then from there, I </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">went to </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Kaiser. And there I got a job writing procedures for e</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">lectrical code violations. So I had</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> to w</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">rite procedures to correct all—</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">b</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ring all the stuff up to code. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">This was a little bit out of my element</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> because I was an instrument technician. But I</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> just got the code book out and </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">learned </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">quick</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">. And that was rewarding, too.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I wanted to go back to--</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I wore a lot different hats out there.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Yeah, right. I want to go back to almost sort of first question I asked you. You s</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">aid you came from Minnesota and </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">you'd heard these</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> sort of stories of Washington S</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">tate, or whatever. What were yo</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">u doing in Minnesota before you </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">came here? And how much--what did you know about the Hanford site itself? D</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">id you know what was being done </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">at the Hanford site, and that sort of thing?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Well, I guess I should have known more. I really didn't know anything about it</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> pa</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">rticularly. I was just young, I </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">guess. The recruiter came through and it sounded good. The money sounded good. And some of my--</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I went to </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Dunwoody Institute there. That's where I hired out from in Minneapolis. And some o</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">f the other students also hired </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">in with GE. So I thought it probably was a good thing to do</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> to start out. Good experience. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">That's actually what I trained for there at Dunwoody was instrumentation. I went there--</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I tried to go to college, but </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I didn't have any money really to support myself. And it was even tough to suppo</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">rt myself at Dunwoody because I </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">didn't have no help at all. I had to work part-time every night.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Do you remember how much your first job at Hanford paid? </span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: Oh, boy. [LAUGHTER] I don't. But there was over</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">time, of course. It paid pretty well. Although I've made m</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ore even before that, one time. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">It's a little off the subject again. But I worked on the Garrison Dam in North Dakota. And here agai</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">n, I wore a </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">different hat. Me and a buddy of mine, we hired in--we bought a brand new toolb</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ox, put it a saw in it, hammer, </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">and blah, blah, blah. And hi</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">red in there at the Dam as </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">journeymen carpenters. The union--</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">which is real </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">strong--they'd been needing people so bad that the union official didn't chec</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">k us out, which he should have. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">And big money. I saved the checks for a long time. We went double-time. Wor</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ked on Sundays. An astronomical </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">amount of money. But then we got greedy because we heard they were making </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">even more on the outlet side. I </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">think I worked on the inlet side, </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">and we when on the outlet side. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Well, I worked there about two weeks an</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">d then union guy got wise and</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> we had to quit. I can't remember but I it was a couple of hundred dollar</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">s a week, which was pretty good </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">money at that time. I don't remember.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">You talked earlier about finding the car, and being able to purchase the car, I guess.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Were there a</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ny other sort of unique things that happened or things that stand out in your mem</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ory during your time working at </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">No, other than </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">meeting a girlfriend out there. [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I don't know. I worked in almost every are</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">a out there. I worked in all the</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">hundred areas. I worked at PUREX. I </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">worked in 200 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">reas</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">, </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">reas. I worked in almost ev</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ery lab in 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">rea. I worked in 325, in all of</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> them,</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> 329.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Of all the different places you worked, the different jobs that you had--was there one that you enjoyed the most</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">, t</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">hat was--looking back on it, you'd say it was maybe your favorite job that you had out there?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">W</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ell, all the work I did in 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">rea was very pleasing to me. And of course after</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> that things changed a lot when </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">they start shutting down things. I really did</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> like N </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">R</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">eactor. I will say that. They were the--</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">of all the places I </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">worked, it was like a family</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">. They were the friendliest,</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> nicest bunch of people</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> to work with. Everybody seemed to </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">know everybody, and you know, it was very pleasant.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">So it's a group of people you worked with that made that so enjoyable.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: Yeah. Yeah, the whole N </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">A</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">rea was just--I r</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">eally hated to see that close. It was, l</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ike I say, like a family.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">So if you look back at your time working at Hanford, overall, how would you assess your experience </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">working in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Hanford site?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Well it--other than what happened to me changing jobs all the time, other than that bitterness--</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">really my </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">employer was the government. And they should be the ones that--</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I shouldn't—</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">break </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">in service, and all that stuff. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">You shouldn't have lost it like I did. I lost it when I quit. And then I went back to w</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ork there again. But that's the </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">bitterness I have.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Mm-hmm</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Which you'll probably leave out of this interview. [LAUGHTER] But other than</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> that</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">, it was a--I'd never tried it really. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">It </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">was a wealth of experience and rewarding. Like I say, we did interesting thin</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">gs. Counted moon samples and it </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">was very interesting--always. All the experiments we did, it was different. The </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">engineers were always trying to </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">think of something different to do. How to lower the background so that you could </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">count very low background stuff </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">and radiat</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ion. It was always interesting, always challenging. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">And then after that when the work there at 300, when I quit and went back, it w</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">asn't fun anymore then. I mean, </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">then things are closing do</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">wn, pretty much. I closed PUREX </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">down. I worked there </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">and then they quit. They closed </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">down. N</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> R</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">eact</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">or closed down. And everything was</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> closing down. That's when the fun stopped, kind of.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Yeah, I was going to ask you then obviously, at some point, the effort shifts fro</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">m production to clean up. And I </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">wondered how that impacted some of the things that you did? Was it that you sa</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">w a lot things shutting down at </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">that point?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Well</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> after things started shutting down, of course just overall morale went down. And the sense of purpose didn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">seem to be there anymore.</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> </span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I teach a class on the Cold War. And a lot of my students that I teach were bor</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">n after the Cold War ended. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">obviously, you were employed at</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> Hanford in the 1950s and 1960</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">s--the height o</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">f the Cold War in many ways. If </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">you were talking to someone who didn't really know much about the Cold War, or was born after it ended</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">—how </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">would you explain or describe Hanford during that time?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Well</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> let's see. That's a big question. How do I feel about it? Do I approve of ho</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">w the government just took over </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">things and ordered everybody out without any money? Reimbursement until much l</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ater? How do I feel about that? </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Well</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> I've got mixed emotions about some of that stuff. How do I feel about dro</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">pping the bomb on Hiroshima? We </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">made the stuff and how do I feel about that? I still have probably mixed emotions ab</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">out that, too. But I guess it's </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">something we ha</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">d to do. I have to accept that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">One thing I will say, what went on at Hanford could never have happened in the ti</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">me frame that it happened there </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">at Hanford. How they d</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">esigned and built like the PUREX</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> B</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">uilding, for instance. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">t's simply amazing. Outstanding </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">workmanship and performance. It's unbelievable</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> almost</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">, w</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">hat happened in that sho</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">rt period of time. And it was a very dedicated workforce. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Of course we didn't know a lot of what we were doing when we first came out here re</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ally. But we just did our work. </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">It was interesting. And we all really were dedicated and liked our job.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Is there anything I haven't asked you about yet? Or is there anything else about y</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">our experiences at Hanford that </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">you'd like to talk that you haven't had the chance to talk about yet?</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Gee, I don't know. I h</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ave a son that still works out—</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">more or less works for Hanford</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">. And he is getting a furlough, </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">maybe </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">today. Because our government’s</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"> shutt</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">ing down. Mixed emotions again. [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">As far as Hanford, like I say, it was a good experience for me. And I'm not sorry I came out here. Not sorry </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">I went </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">to work for Hanford. Lots of good memories. And a lot of my friends, a course </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">though who are gone. I'm one of those hold-outs. [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Yeah, </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">just so many of my friends that hired </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">in when I did, they're no l</span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">onger around. I'm 83 right now, </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">so. Yup, time goes fast.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Well, I want to thank you for coming in today and sharing your memories and experiences. I appreciate it.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX145880437">
<p class="Paragraph SCX145880437"><span class="TextRun SCX145880437"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noga</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX145880437">Thank you.</span><span class="EOP SCX145880437"> </span></p>
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Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
192 Kbps
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:41:57
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
K Area
K-West Area
300 Area
H Area
F Area
N Reactor
B Reactor
Plutonium Uranium Extraction Plant (PUREX)
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1955-2013
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1955-1960
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Leroy Noga
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Leroy Noga conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-06-17: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
10/15/2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Nuclear instruments & methods
300 Area
B Reactor
F Area
H Area
Hanford (Wash.)
Hunting
K Area
K-West Area
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
N Reactor
Plutonium Uranium Extraction Plant (PUREX)
Richland (Wash.)
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F1e70e5f6902f36a8dce5b5ec4f9229c3.jpg
2299143b7462e91e44a8263168c065d0
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F668060df69888e4182ac2a6dd4aa0020.mp4
1c1a7cedc234e0082608686d3d8c0ae2
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Samuel Moore
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span class="SpellingError SCX100368582">Moore_Samuel</span></span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></strong></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Bauman</span>: My name is Robert Bauman, and I am conducting an oral history interview with Samuel Moore, correct?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Samuel Moore</span>: Right, Samuel--</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: This date is July 9, 2013. And the interview is being conducted on the campus of Washington State University, Tri-Cities. And I'll be talking with Mr. Moore about his experiences working at Hanford site, living in Richland and so forth. So maybe let's start actually from the beginning, if you want, could you tell me how and why you came to Hanford, how you heard about it, how you got here?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: Okay, I'm going to tell you how I got here. My father was working at a cook in the mental section of Camp Chaffee, Arkansas. And he came home, and he says, there's a better job at Hanford, Washington. So he left and came out. Then he told them that I can't be here without my family. So they put us on, I think it was a troop train, and it stopped in Pasco and set us off.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Could you--where is Camp Chaffee, Arkansas?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">It's</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> east of Ft. Smith and that, so.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And how old were you at the time?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: About eight. And then we come in--put us off of this I'll call it a troop train, because there was a zillion soldiers on it. And it picks up and they took us to Kennewick to a place called Naval Housing. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">that's where they put the people coming in for Hanford workers to stay until a house was available. And we stayed there, and then from there we moved to this nice little square building which had a flat top, set up on stilts. And it was called a prefab at 1300 Totten Street. And that means that we lived at the end house. The telephones were on the telephone poles at the end of the block. So when the phone would ring you were told to answer the phone and go get whoever it wanted who. So that's the way we started in Richland. And we lived there for I don't know how long. And then we moved to different houses around Richland until I graduated from Columbia High School, which was Columbia High School in Richland at that time. Now it's Richland High. And then after that I did a short job with a construction company. And then I went to work for General Electric, running one of their blueprint machines when they were ge</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">tting ready to build the REDOX Building and the PUREX B</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">uilding. So I'd go, I was the first one in to warm up the machines and run them for </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">a while. And then after while I </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">got </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span class="SpellingError SCX100368582">uplined</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> and I could deliver those suckers out into the area. So that was my starting with General Electric then.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">, so let me go back a little bit. So what year did your family arrive then?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">19--it was either 1943 or '44.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">. And your father, was he a cook here also?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">No, no. He'd come out and he was a, as we call them today, rent-a-cop. He wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">s a patrolman out there. And he worked as a patrolman ‘ti</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">l he retired.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And you said that your first job was with General Electric, and what year would that have been?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">About 1953 or 4. Then I went from there, like I say I was in the blueprint sections</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> and all that. And then I had a job—</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">I got a chance to become an engineer's assistant. And then when they were g</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">oing out and building different </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">things</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> so that helped me get into the other sections</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> of General Electric and so on. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And when that one cut, I transferred into radiation monitoring. And that was when</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> they had the Hanford labs, and </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">the old animal</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> farm was at</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> 100 F A</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">rea</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">. So I worked in that group until--I f</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">orget what year it was. I'm not </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">good on years and dates. But when they decided they were going to re-tube all of </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">those reactors out there in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">hundred areas and so they could put bigger slugs in them and all that stuff, I worke</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">d on that until about 1957. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">they said, guess what? We're not going to pay you anymore. So I left</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> here. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">But I stayed with the government job. I went to the Nevada test site and blew all </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">the plutonium up that they made </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">out here. So then I came back to Hanford in 1960. So then I was still in radiation </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">monitoring and worked all kinds </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">of different places, tank farms and everywhere else out there that I could think about.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">So it sounds like you worked all over the Hanford site.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">All over the Hanford site, that's right, yes, everywhere. And I worked a lot of the tim</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">es at the burial grounds in 200 </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">W</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">est</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> A</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">rea. When they would tak</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">e the </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">big wooden boxes to PUREX and RE</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">DOX </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">and th</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ey'd fill them. And then they'd </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">pull them up, and they'd put a big long cable on the whole string of cars, and that </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">box was way down that string of </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">cars. And then when they get up to the burial ground, the train and it would coordinat</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">e, and they'd pull it back. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">as the cable would come around, and when the box got to the trench, the train would stop. And they'd just spin it</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">around and down in a trench. And then we get the honor of riding the bulldozers to set those freights so they</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">could cover them up.</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">That was one of the deals. And the other times I worked in a lot of the tank farm</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">s and pulling </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">pumps and putting </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">new bearings in those pumps and all that kind of stuff. It was an experience, believe me.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Yeah, I'm sure it was. So a lot of this was</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> with</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> radiation monitoring?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: It was r</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">adiation monitoring. And I was in radiation monitoring until 1980-something. And I </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">had a little problem out there, </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">and they wanted me to release some stuff. And I said</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">, uh-uh, not me, it </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span class="SpellingError SCX100368582">ain't</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> mine. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">So they said, well we've got this other section over here that you should be in, so I g</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ot into the safety part </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">with respiratory protection. And I was trained to repair the breathing air things, like the firemen use</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">. I was trained </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">to do that, fix the PAPRs, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> the</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> escape packs, and all that stuff so. And check over places for where they</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">—oxygen </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">levels to where they could go in and work and all that, so that was my last eig</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ht years of Hanford, was in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">respiratory section I'll call it.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And so when did you retire then?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">In 1994.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">So almost 40 years minus the years that you were with--</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Yeah, yeah. Well as the way I said, when I came back to Hanford in 1960, they tol</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">d me it was a temporary job, it would probably only last six, eight</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> months. Well, I found out that at Hanford a temporary j</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ob is pretty permanent. It only </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">lasted 33 and 1/2 years. It's a temporary job there, so I guess at all turned out pretty good.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: I guess you could</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> consider that temporary.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Temporary, yeah. Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">So many interesting things that you've worked on. So let's go back to the early yea</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">rs. First, in the 1950s and you </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">talked about radiation monitoring, something with radiation, you did blueprin</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">t and stuff, but then radiation </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">monitoring?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And then radiation monitoring, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">, and some of that was with animals? Is that right?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Well, I went into the animal farm on some certain times, but I wasn't assigned th</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ere for anything. The big one I </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">was assigned to was what they called the 558 project, which is when they re-tubed al</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">l of the old reactors. And that </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">was, you'd go in and set dose rates for all the people when they're</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> working. And so it was a deal. </span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And now Hanford, of course, is a highly secure site, right, lots of security, secrecy to</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> a certain extent. Can you talk </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">about that at all? I mean, in terms of getting to work or at work, how did that impact you?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Most of the places where I was, the secure part of it wasn't that strict. But other p</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">laces like, some of those </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">buildings, yeah</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> they were really a strict situation. And when I go back a ways, when my dad and we lived in this</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">—I </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">call it the slum house on Totten Street--nobody knew what was happening. Nobody knew. I didn't know what the</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">guy next door was doing, and they didn't know what my dad did. Until I think it was 1944 or '45 when they</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">announced what they were really doing here. And it was kind of a </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">shock, that</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> deal, so. That was my deals of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">secrecy out there.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Now, did you have to have special security clearance?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Yes, yes, I did. I had special clearances, yes. I had everything but the very to</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">p secret one. And that was real </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">handy because when I left here, I went to the Nevada test site. I had to use the</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> same secret pass. And then the same thing when I come back. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">It was very, very--what am I trying to say here? I mean, I'm an old guy. I'm just abo</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ut at the end of the road here. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Most of my work, like I say, was the tank farms, and those places, where secrecy was not involved in that. An</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">d it </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">was like times when you'd have a spill, you dig it up and prepare it to the burial gro</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">und. A lot of that was the work </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">that we did.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And you said your first job was at General Electric. Obviously, there are different contractors.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Now, who all did you work for over the years?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Well, we went to General Electric. Then it went to there was one called Isochem</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> Ro</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ckwell, oh there's a whole slug </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">of them, I can't remember all of them. So it seemed like every time you'd turn a</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">round, they were turned over to </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">somebody new. But it was Westinghouse when I decided I would better leave before I had a real problem.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">So can you talk about what was happening there toward the end that made you want to leave?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Well, I was, like I say, I was working on the PAPRs and all that kind of stuff. It got t</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">o be a real drag, you know. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ev</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">erybody was doing that then. It</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> got to the point where every time you tur</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">n</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ed</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> around, everybody was wanting </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">this, and wanting this, and wanting this. You're only one person. And I was a guy that did </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">most all the fixing. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">So I decided--to my wife, I said--I call her the voice from the other side. She said,</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> what's the matter? And I says, </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">well, before I mess up on one of these pieces of equipment and kill somebody, I th</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ink I better retire. So we just decided, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And she worked for the Hanford P</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">roject</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> too</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">nd of course she was </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">much better off than I was. She </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">worked for one of t</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">he big managers as a secretary. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">So we just decided that was it. And we had our</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> nest eggs saved up and said, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">, it's retired an</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">d we're going to </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">see the world. And we did that until my one eye decides to go bad. Then we ha</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">d to stop. Other than that, I'd </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">probably been in who knows where.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: While you we</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">re working at Hanford were there any significant events, or sort of, things that have </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">happened that sort </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">of stand out in your mind specifically?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: Yeah, and I was</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> tryin</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">g to think. It was about 1962, g</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">raveyard shift, 233-</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">S, it caught on</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> fire and it burned. And it was </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">a big mess. That's where I wound up with my shot of plutonium in my bones, as I'</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ll say, from that fire. And, of </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">course, back in those days you didn't know what was what, so they </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">worked on it and cleaned it up. And but t</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">here's a couple of contamination things that sticks out in my mind. One </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">of them is, we used to bury the </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">material from 300</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> A</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">rea which is, I guess you would c</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">all a Westinghouse, Battelle or somebody. And we used to </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">dump them into caissons in the backside of the 234</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">5 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">rea. And we had one of those that kind of brok</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">e open and </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">messed us up a little bit. Took</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> us maybe six</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> eight</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">, hours to get cleaned up so we we</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">re able to go on our merry way. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">But those are the only two that really stick out in my mind.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Did you miss any amount of work as a result the exposures when you had those?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Nope. Nope. They just cleaned you up and said go back to work. You all have</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> to remember that back in those </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">days</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> all of the things that happened in a lot of places</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> we didn't know. We didn't </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">know what the repercussions was </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">going to be. We didn't know that. Now, this is why we're paying for a lot of stuff r</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ight now is because we didn't know how to do all that stuff. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">But like I say, there's a lot more people that know a lot more about that Hanford stu</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ff than I do. Like I said, it's </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">been many a year since I worked some of those places, too, that I can't remember some of the stuff.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Sure, sure. The radiation monitoring group, how large of a group was that</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">? And how many employees do you </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">know, have an idea who worked--</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">There was probably about 60 or better. But each company, I think, had a group of their own. The 2</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">00 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">reas had </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">one big group. The 100 Areas had a group. And then 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">rea had a group, so </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">you put them all together there </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">was probably more than 60-some.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay, and just to—</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">you said there was a fire in, you think about, 19</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">62. Was it the 200 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">rea?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: Yep, in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> 200</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">, down behind the RE</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">DOX</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> B</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">uilding. That just, poof, was it and it w</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ent, so. And I think the reason </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">they had the fire was because somebody had some greasy coveralls and stuff a</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">nd didn't take care of them the </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">proper way, and the first thing you know, poof, they were on fire.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And this was where there was radioactive material?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Yeah, it was back in the radioactive area, so everything got messed up.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And at the time you probably didn't know necessarily everything, but you've had some health problems </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">since </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">then?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, but I won't say that my health problem is caused by </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">the contamination that I had or was dumped</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> with. I've had quite a few of those. I've had a melanoma cance</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">r in this ear, and I had a very </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">large contamination that got in that ear and area. So I've had to have some surg</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ery done there, skin grafts and </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">that kind of stuff. But so far it hasn't slowed me up.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">I'm going to shift gears a little bit here. Were you working here in 1963 then when President Kennedy came to?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Yeah, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And do you remember at all? Were you there that day?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">No. Well, I was on a project that day, but I was not out where he was. I was one </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">of the, I guess how would I say </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">this, the lower steel, so I took care of the work over while everybody went to tha</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">t. But yeah, I was here. I came </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">back from Nevada on September 13, 1960, and I worked till '94.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And then I wanted to a</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">sk you a little about Richland. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">So other than when you first got here, it sounds like you lived in Richland most of the time?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">How would you describe Richland as a community at the time, as a place to live?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">It was very good</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> because at that time, when you we</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">re there, you didn't even have </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">to worry about locking doors. I </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">mean, everybody was—it </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">just one big thing. It was a government town and every</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">thing would deal like that. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">nobody really did</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">didn't have the vandalism or anything like that around town. An</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">d as you probably know that, if </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">you're familiar with Fred M</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">e</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">yer</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">’s on</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Wellsian </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Way down there, that was</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> a swamp deal, because that was </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">where Ric</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">hland got their drinking water. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Like I said</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> I lived in 1303 Totten the very first time and then we move</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">d from there down to on Benham Street. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">I don't know how to say this, other than the way I normally say that, but that was down where we call</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ed the turd </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">churn. That was the sewage plant down there. Then from </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">there I moved back up to Swift. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And then in--I was trying to think when it was, 1963 or so, they did away with the</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> old irrigation ditch that came </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">through Richland and goes underneath Carmichael, because that's where they</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> flooded the cattail place down </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">there for the drinking water in Richland, and l</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">et it seep down and pump it up. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And they busted everything up and back about then I was reading the Villager, I th</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ink it was, the Tri-City paper, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">nd ther</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">e was a lot for sale on Totten S</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">treet. So I bought it and went out and looked a</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">t it. It was the old irrigation </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ditch. And I built a house over the old irrigation ditch, and I still live there.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And you—</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">when you first arrived you were a child.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">What was it like going to school? I'm assuming that there were people from sort of all over</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">, right?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">All over. Yeah. And you just walk to school. And it was, like I say, there was no bu</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ses or anything, you could walk </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">to school. And everybody just seemed to fit right in</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> you know. Nobody ha</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">d any qualms whether I was from Arkansas or anywhere else. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">But like I say when the </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">first house there in Richland, Wr</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ight Avenue was the last </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">street in town. And beyond that </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">was one of the most fabulous cherry orchards that there was. And when you we</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">re a kid you'd slip over in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">cherry orchard and get cherries and take them home to your mother. And she co</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">uld make you some jams, jellies, or </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">whatever pie, </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">or whatever. But it was a deal. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">There was quite a group of kids that came from all over the country. And they just</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> seemed to fit in, none of this </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">gang thing or anything like that. They were just, everybody was all buddy-buddy, you know?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">You me</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ntioned you went to, what was then </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Columbia High School.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">How about elementary and middle school?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And in elementary school when we moved the one that I really remember was Le</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">wis and Clark down on the south </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">end of town. And I went ther</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">e until one of the,</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> I'll call them students decided to burn </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">it down. And they </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">burnt Lewis and Clark down. And so a lot of us were told to go up to Marcus Whi</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">tman and finish off the year up there. So we did that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And then them from there on Carm</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ichael, the junior high, was </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">being built and I think they opened it u</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">p at about </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">a mid-year. And I was one of the ones I went there the mid-year into Carmichael a</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">nd then over to the high school </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">after that.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And so what year was that the Lewis and Clark burned down? Was that like in the late '40s then?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Yeah. But the funny part of it is, not too many years ago they arrested a fell</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ow down in Portland. And he was </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">laughing about burning the building down. So I guess they couldn't do anything</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> to him, but they found out who burned it down now. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Yeah. Well, there was Lewis and Clark, Marcus Whitman, Sacajawea which wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">s right there by Central United </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Protestant Church was the old Sacajawea school. And then there's Jefferson which i</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">s still going. And our fabulous </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">people are trying to shut it down, move it, and do something else with it. But w</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ho knows what's going to happen</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Do you remember when you were growing up and going to school and living </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">here at that time any community </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">events, parades?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Oh, yeah!</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> Atomic Frontier Days was a big—the</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> big, big thing. I have breakfas</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">t with a group of Columbia High </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">graduates and I can't remember what her name is, but she was one of them th</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">at used to run for the Queen of </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Frontier Days. And there was a couple othe</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">rs. But that was the big thing. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">they used to take—</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Howard</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> Amon </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Park turned into booths</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">, and just like a big fair down </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">there. So it was things, and then all a sudden they decided to move everything around to the Tri-Cities.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And was that in the summer?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Yeah, that was always in the summer, you know. And then the big hydroplane rac</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">es, they would come in, but they </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">were the old ones that had the 1</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">2</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">00</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> or 1,300 horse-powered gasoline engines in t</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">hem, the noise makers. But that </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">was </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">about the extent of the things. And if we</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> go back I can remember the floods came through and when they b</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">uild all the dikes that they're </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">tearing down now. But I don't</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> think they</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> got to worry about that, being as the dams are still functioning.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Do you remember some of the floods?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: Oh yeah, I can remember</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> the flood deals, when they built the road up to going </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">to the Y. They had to build all </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">that </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">up because you didn't get to</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> Kennewick when the flood was on. Well</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">, it was right up to the George Washington Way r</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">oad there by wherever the guy that has the petrified stumps down there. The water was j</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ust </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">across the street from his house, was right up to the edge there.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">So </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">I want to go back now to H</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">anford itself and your work experienc</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">es there. You talked about some </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">specific things you did and some specific things. How would you describe</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> Hanford as a </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">place to work?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Hanford was a real good place to work. It was really good work, and good place </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">to work. Mainly I think because </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">you didn't know everything that was going on. So you knew that you had your se</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ction, what you were doing, and </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">you didn't want to make waves or something like that. But to me, Ha</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">nford was a good place to work. </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">There was a lot of--I had a lot of good friends that came up through the, I call th</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">em the ranks. They were, like I </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">worked in the blueprint and there was guys that drove the mail trucks. We wound up</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> as a real knit group of people </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">there</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">. They work out of the old 703 B</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">uilding, which part of </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">it's</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> still there. And we used to have Cok</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">e breaks and go </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">back there. And everybody put a quarter in the pot and then get your Coke </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">bottle. When it was all through </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">whoever had the bottle that was from farthest away got the kitty. So it was a good place to work</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> really.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And I guess is there anything you would like future generations to know about working at Hanford site?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Well, I would like everybody to know that where this country really screwed u</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">p was when we dropped that bomb </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">and blew up everything. We kept everything too secret. They should have let e</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">verybody know what that was and </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">what was happening. Today we would have had a better deal of doing what they're </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">doing today if they'd done that, </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">I think. Now that's my opinion and no one else's, but if they would have just let t</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">hem know what was going on, and </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">what happened, it would have been a lot better.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And then is there anything that I haven't asked you about in terms of either your </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">job at Hanford—or jobs, I should </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">say</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> at Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">No.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Or living in Richland? That I haven't asked you about, that you'd like to talk about?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">No. Like I say, Richland was a good place to live, though, and Hanford was a goo</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">d place to work. I mean you did </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">your job, and everybody else did theirs, and everything worked out just fine. There's a lot of th</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ings that I'm not too </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">sure of what happened. But a lot of those places they did have things when they</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> were doing experiments for the </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Navy and all kind of stuff out there. But I didn't get in on any of that stuff at all. It was one of those deals, you go in</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">and you dress out, and most the time the monitors were </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">the first ones and the last ones out. So that was the deal.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">When you did that, did you wear a badge?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Yeah, TLD, the</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">rmoluminescent dosimeter. So y</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ou always had a badge on. I understan</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">d that </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">some of the guys used to take theirs and set them aside so they wouldn't get too m</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">uch radiation, so they would be </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">eligible for overtime. But I wasn't into that overtime route.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And so how would you know? How did it register that you had too much exposure?</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> How was that read?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Well they put it into a meter that would read what the </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span class="SpellingError SCX100368582">thermo</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> was. And the original ones were--</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">what am I trying to </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">say? Film, there was a film. And they would read the film of what, how much had b</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">een exposed to that. And that's how they got your </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">dose rates there, how much you took.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And did that change at some point to some other method?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Yeah, they used the film badges to start with. Then they flipped over and they </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">found out they could use these, </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">what did</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> I call them, thermoluminescent</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> detectors, which is you put at charge on </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">them. And I guess the radiation </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">would discharge</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> the charge. So they'll know how much was used off of it. An</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">d then you had pencils that you </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">read, that would tell you, that would read if you were supposed to take, let's say, </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">50 MR. Well you'd set that when </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">you come out, you'd be there and there was always time keepers. There was a tim</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">e keeper in that group that was </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">taking how much your exposure was, and how long you had been there, and calcul</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ating it to when you should get your</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">self out.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And they would let you know that?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And then they'd tap you on the shoulder and say, go. So then they</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">’d</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> go out. And then there would be somebody out</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">there that would get them undressed and check them, clean them, and make sure they were all, no contamination</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">on them and either send them to lunch or home.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">And that sort of procedure--</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">That procedure.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">--throughout the time--</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Throughout the whole time I was there, yeah. Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">All right. Well thank you ver</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">y much. I really appreciate</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> you</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">r</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> being willing to c</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">ome in and talk to us. And very </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">interesting--</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Yeah, like to say, there's things out there that my mind just doesn't pick up on the</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">m right now. So probably middle </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">of the night at one o'clock, I'll wake up and say, golly, I should have told him this. But n</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">o, that's the deal. But really, </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">Hanford was a good place to work and to me, it's been real good to me. I got a good retirement off of it.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">All right. Well, thank you very much.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">You bet.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">I really appreciate it.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">You bet. And seeing now that he's got the shut off</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> I'll tell you about my week. I took</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> my motor home and went to </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span class="SpellingError SCX100368582">Ilwaco</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">. You know where </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span class="SpellingError SCX100368582">Ilwaco</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"> is on the Columbia River?</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man three</span>: Yeah, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX100368582">
<p class="Paragraph SCX100368582"><span class="TextRun SCX100368582"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Moore</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX100368582">On the way over there.</span><span class="EOP SCX100368582"> </span></p>
</div>
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:35:10
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
250kbps
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
Reduction-Oxidation Plant (REDOX
Plutonium Uranium Extraction Plant (PUREX)
703 Building
100 F Area
200 West Area
300 Area
234-5 Area
200 Area
100 Area
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1953-2013
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1953-1994
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Samuel Moore
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Samuel Moore conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-06-16: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
7/9/2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Nuclear weapons plants--Health aspects--Washington (State)--Hanford Site Region
100 Area
100 F Area
200 Area
200 West Area
234-5 Area
300 Area
703 Building
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Kennewick (Wash.)
Plutonium Uranium Extraction Plant (PUREX
Reduction-Oxidation Plant (REDOX)
Richland (Wash.)
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F0f094d5a53d9f182e7f0e025e2f2b8be.jpg
8c6a9bb1b96c15e52e5e257665176a13
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F0f2c69c8057ad2de89bc821a77371c1e.mp4
a98291ac678ac0e576af292cdf1abeae
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Danny Henry
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
220 kbps
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX133128238">
<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span class="SpellingError SCX133128238">Henry_Danny</span></span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span></strong></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX133128238">
<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">My name is Danny Henry. Spelling is D-A-N-N-Y. Mid</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">dle initial is R for Ray, R-A-Y</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, Henry, </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">H</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">-E-N-R-Y.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX133128238">
<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: All right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Tha</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">nk you. And my name's Robert Bau</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">man, and we're conducting this interview on the campus of Washington</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">State University</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> Tri-Cities on July 2</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX133128238">nd</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> of 2014. So let's start maybe by talking about how and when your family first</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">came to the Tri-Cities. When that was, and why they came.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: Okay. </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Actually, my father first of all came to the Tri-Cities. And he came to the Tri-Cities</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> I believe it was somewhere</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">around '48. It was in the mid or late 40s. And he actually came out from the South, from Arkansas</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Atkins,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Arkansas, Polk County. And he was married to my mom at that time, but she stayed back in the South, and he</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">came out to work for the government during the war effort. And he worked out here for some period of time. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">don't know how long, but he liked it out here. And so once his mission was </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">done, he went back to the South. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">nd</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">then later years, came back out and found work with the railroad. And then eventually he started working</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">construction.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">And he became a laborer, and worked construction. Then he came back ou</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">t to the site, and worked at N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">eactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">for some period of </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">time. And I can even remember back in the 60s when John Fitzgerald Kennedy came out here,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> the P</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">resident</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, to give a speech about the N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">eactor. I was a kid. I think I was probably about seven or eight years</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">old, maybe 10, somewhere around there. And then he decided to stay out here. When he came back out to the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Northwest, back out to Washington, decided to stay out here and got work, and then sent for my mom, and she</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">came out. And so they made a life and stayed on.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Hm. </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Do you know how he originally heard about Hanford? It's a long way from Arkansas.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">My understanding from my older brother, which is 20 years older than me, he said that he actually received</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">direction from the government, or allowance from the government, and received gas credit, or chips, or whatever,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">in order to drive out and to show up at the Hanford site at some designated time. And so him and another one of</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">his friends both drove out, and they went to work out here during in the 40s.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">S</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">o he was recruited in some way or something, right?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Yes. Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">So then you were born in the Tri-Cities?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Yes, I was born in Pasco, Washington in 1953, May 7, 1953. And I graduated Pasco High School, went on to</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">college, and graduated from Evergreen State College, and then returned back here to the Tri-Cities and found</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">employment out at Hanford. First of all, it was with Rockwell, and with the fire department. I'll back up a little bit.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">During the summer of when I was in high school, two summers, I did work out for J.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">A. Jones at that time in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">rea, and I actually </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">worked as a printer, or learned—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">as a summer job, and learned how to print on these old,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">offset printers. And did that for two summers. And so</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> when—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">actually I had graduated from college and came back.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">While I was at college, I did receive an emergency medical technician certificate through the State of Washington,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> and so it was a good </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">shoo-in</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> to go to work for the fire department as a firefighter. So let's see. It was Chief Good</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">at that time who hired me. And at that time there was only a few that had EMT certifications. And Chief Good had</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">told me that there was no intention at that time to actually have the fire department respond for emergency care.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">They ha</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">d always call</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">ed</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> the Richl</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">and fire department, or Kadlec</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, or some other emergency services. And so I didn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">really see a whole bunch of future in staying there at the fire department. So I heard that they were hiring down at</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">eactor for reactor operators, and the pay was a bit better. So I thought that would be a challenge. And so I</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">applied.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">And so you got a job there, then?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Yeah. I started working</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> at N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">eactor, I believe it was late 1978, and went into the reactor operator program, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">eventually</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">w</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">ell,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> started in the fuels department, and then had the opportunity to get into the certification</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">prog</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">ram for the control room. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">decided I would take on the challenge. There was a lot talk back and forth</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">with the other operators. Some was pro and some was con. No, it's not really better to work in the control room.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">It's better to work in fuels. </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">But I </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">seen</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> a challenge of being able to actually operate a reactor. And I really wanted that certification. And so I</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">did go in the certification program. And afte</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">r, I think, two years, two and a half</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> years</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—I</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> think the class started out, I</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">think it was like 24, 26. And the final certified reactor operators, I think there was six of us. I could probably name</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">them. Yeah. And all the other operators dropped out, and they went back to fuels, or </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">they got into the trades, or</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">just left the company. But I stayed on and was certified. It was very, very challenging, very hard.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> Right. And s</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">o how long was that training program</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> again</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">The training program, I think it was about a year and a half, two years. With all of the qualifications, you had to be</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">trained on all the different systems. You had to get checked out by the senior operators, and they would ask you</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">questions, and make sure you were proficient in every one of those before you got the sign-off. So you had to</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">complete all of that, as well as take tests, periodic tests, on the systems. And when you had finished all your actual</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">qualifications, then you were allowed to take the eight-hour exam.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, okay. Hm.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">And so once I had finished up mine, there was testing. And I took the eight-hour exam, and passed the eight-hour</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">exam. I think I probably took about 10 hours to finish it, but that was fine. And passed the exam. And from there,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">you were then allowed to do a walk through, where a senior trainer would take you out into the facility, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">basically ask you anything he wanted to, all the way from the front face, to the rear face, to </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">the </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">confinement valves, to</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">the emergency cooling system, and anything in components or valves, and circuitry, and all of that. And I passed</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">that, and did quite well.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I spent a lot of time actually</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">when I was an operator, the duties primarily was laundry, because there was a lot of</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">SWPs, or radioactive clothing that was used. So someone always had to maintain laundry. And then also some of</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">the duties was housekeeping. Some of the duties was actually patrol, where actually you went through the reactor,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">and made sure all of the outside systems and everything was in correct alignment, and there wasn't any out-of</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">spec</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">conditions. So I spent a lot of time out in the reactor. At the time when I was out, I took it upon myself to take</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">prints with me, and actually verify and look at a lot the systems out there, so I knew them pretty well. So that was</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">one of the things that really worked fo</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">r me when I did my walk-through</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">. I was really ready for that. And I think I</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">scored highest in my walk-through of the three tests.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">The final test was</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> oral exam. And the oral exam consisted of a senior person from training, senior person from</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">operations, senior person from nuclear safety. And they all sat on your board. And I think there was one other</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> individual also, I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> may have been quality assurance, maybe. And basically they sit in a room like this, and you</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">sit in front of a table, and they ask you questions, and you answer the questions. And they had the choice of</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">asking you whatever questions they chose to, as long as it related to reactor operations, up to and including the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">electrical distribution systems that powered or brought power to the reactor, as well as the power going out, steam</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">systems, all of </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">the different auxiliary systems</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> part of the plant. But anyway, I passed that exam also, the oral</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">board. And so then I was granted my certification.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">A pretty grueling process.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">It was, very much.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And s</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">o how long were you an operator, then</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, how long did you work</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Actually, as</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> a certified operator</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I maintained my certification, I believe, for a year and a half, maybe two years.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">There was a requalification. I think it was about a year and a half. I did operate the reactor, the nuclear console,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">the AA console. That probably doesn't mean anything to you, but the water systems, or the actual nuclear panel,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">where you actually pulled and maintained power, and adjusted </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">power, and also a lot of the air balance systems,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">and the secondary systems, where the steam was produced and sent over to Washington State Public</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Power. We sold steam. It was a du</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">al purpose reactor. And worked</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> on all of the panels.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">And so before you were an operator, you worked in fuels, you said.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: So w</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">hat sort of work did that entail?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">The fuels operation</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--[COUGH] excuse me—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">was actually</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">the fuel that would come, that would be the spent fuel that was discharged out</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">of the rear of the </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">reactor would come out,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> go down, and go what was called a trampoline, and go into the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">water, and hit this metal mesh chain type of trampoline to slow it down. These fuel elements were, I think, as I</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">remember, somewhere around 50-60 pounds. So coming out of the back of the reactor, they were there pretty</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">heavy. And so then they would roll down into conveyor carts, and that's one of the duties as a fuel operator, doing</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">charge discharge. You'd basically take the fuel after it went through the cart, move it out, index it, take it out, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">then place it in various different storage compartments in the back face of the reactor, or actually in the basin,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">what was called the fuels basin. And then also</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">that was the </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">primary job of a fuels operator, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And s</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">o how long total did you work at Hanford, then?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Total time at Hanford is 35 years. I've been out here 35 years. It's been a long haul.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Yeah. </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">And so you started in the late 60s?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">'78 or '79. I believe my actual start date was 8/1/1978.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">So you w</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">ere there for a little while, and at</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> s</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">ome point the mission shifts </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">to clean up.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: Yeah, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> How did that impact the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">sorts of things you were doing?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Well, one of the things about being</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">as an operator, is that you work shift work. And so I actually worked shift</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">work, I think, for like three years, rotating shift, A, B, C, </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">D</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">; graveyard, swings, days. So I never got used to that. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">had a family. I was just starting a family and stuff, and I wanted to be able to spend a lot more time with my kids</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">and my wife on normal hours. So I looked for another job at </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">N Reactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, and there was an opening for actually a</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">process standard engineer/</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">nuclear safety engineer.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">And so I applied for it. I got the job, and was responsible for maintaining standards, process standards, which is</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">day-to-day operations. If there was any changes or deviations to the operations, there had to be approval. There</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">was an approval process. And so I was kind of responsible for maintaining that, reviewing it, and then approving it</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">through the control room, through my management</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> in order to make any changes to reactor operations. Pretty</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">much that was that job. It was straight days. I liked that. Five days, I was off the weekends. It was great. And there</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">was some other opportunities also during that time in that position.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I wanted t</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">o mention, I had a very good m</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">entor. His name was John Long, and he was the nuclear safety</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">engineer, or nuclear safety manager, manager of nuclear safety at that time. And John was very instrumental in</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">assisting and helping me, and I really do appreciate his efforts. He's deceased now. But anyway, John helped me</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">quite a bit when I was in that position. There was other opportunities also. I moved from there, and became</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">actually went into the planning aspects of </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">outages. And so the reactor would run for so long, sometimes there was</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">a planned outage, sometimes an unplanned outage. Unplanned</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> outages usually were because the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> reactor scram</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">for some reason. Maintenance had to be done, something had to be fixed or repaired.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">So for the actual planned outages, I became a planner/scheduler, or took a position as a planner/scheduler, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">actually planned to do various different maintenance. What that consisted of was drawing out a long-term plan,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">and when the reactor was down, to manage that plan, and for the systems to be fixed, repaired, coordinated for</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">the least amount of time so the reactor could actually come back up and running. We were being paid. And it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">one thing I wanted to mention about </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">N Reactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">. There was a lot</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, a lot</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> of good spirit. The people who worked out there,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">they really knew that they were on a mission. This was during the Cold War, and we knew what we were doing,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">and it was just a lot of good spirit. You know, when you'd ride the bus out</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">by the way, I rode the bus back and</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">forth.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">And when you'd be on the bus, and the reactor was down, and you'd get past the fire department, and you'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">make that last left turn, people would just kind of wake up. And they'd be looking, and they were looking to see if</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">that green light goes on. There was</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">on the bo</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">ard, there was a green or red</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> light. And someone up front</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">would say, yeah, we're up. And it was just a lot of that kind of spirit of wanting the reactor to run. I really, really</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">liked that. So being a part of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">doing the planning and scheduling, or a position as planner/schedule was a real</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> shoo-in</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> to going to work as outage manager. I then became an outage manager, where actually I managed the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">outage center.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">And the outage center basically coordinated, on a daily basis, on a shift basis</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">there was six of us, and I guess</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">you could say we were kind of elite, we were very picked to run that, because it was so critical to the mission</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">and</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">your responsibilities was to make sure that things got done as scheduled, as planned,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> and that you had the craft</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> resources to do them. You coordinated with the operations folks, the fuel folks, the engineering. That was</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">your job, to coordinate all those efforts. A lot of the things that happened in the plant and the repairs actually</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">required that you have engineers in place in case there was questions, technical questions, changes to paperwork</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">that had to be authorized, and so on and so forth. So that was part of the job as outage</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">primary job as</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> an</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> outage</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> manager is</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> to make sure of that. And you reported directly to upper management, and sometimes DOE. So you</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">were responsible on a daily basis to coordinate and have those meetings, and ensure that work got done and</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span class="SpellingError SCX133128238">statused</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> at the end of the day.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">So shortly after that, they announced that</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">or probably, I guess, maybe about six to eight months in that position--they announced that </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">N Reactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">after Chernobyl</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">they announced the </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">N Reactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> would no longer be on the same</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">mission, and it was going to shut down. So I moved from there to another job. I actually left </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">N Reactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, and went to</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">200 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">rea, and worked as a nuclear safety engineer</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, over for—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I'm trying to think right now. I can remember who I worked</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">for. I worked for Arlen Shade. But actually, </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">my responsibilities was over B P</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">lant WESF. And at that time they had</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">just started to bring back the capsules that was basically sent down to</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I forget exactly</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Decatur, I think. Yeah.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">And anyway, these capsules, there was some problems with them. But anyway, they were bring them back. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">so I was right as part of that. I don't know what happened to that mission, but I served there as a nuclear safety</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">engineer with oversight responsibilities over people at WESF for a period of time. And then after that, let's see. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">almost have to look at my resume to think.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">It's really been</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">it's actually been that long. Of course you're going to</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">be cutting and doing</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> clips and stuff.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> So I can just--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> Oh, by the way I have a</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I actually pulled this out. This was</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">actually my certification. Wally Ruff's name over to the right there kind of faded. It must have got</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> wet.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, yeah, huh.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> That's the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">original certification.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: [INAUDIBLE]</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> What's that?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--the control room on the--</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't know exactly what you guys would want, but I just grabbed some stuff. This was my 30-year recognition with Fluor. I don't have a 35. I don't know. They didn't give out</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> a</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> 35-year recognition. I don't know</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">why. Let's see. Where am I? Process standards, senior outage planner, outage manager of nuclear safety,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> principal engineer. Oh! Y</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">eah. Then after that there was</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">actually, when I was</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">as the nuclear safety principal</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">engineer oversight o</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">ver B P</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">lant WESF, there was a position that came available for a manager for OSHA</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">compliance, OSHA safety and health program.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">We had previously been benefited, let me say, with headquarters coming out, and they were called the tagger</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">team. And they basically came out to the site, and they went through the whole site, and they were doing</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">assessments. They had a very, very large group, and they assessed the site, with the effort to give feedback to</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">the improvements that needed to be done at Hanford. Well, part of the actions, or corrective actions, was to</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">develop an OSHA type of assessment program that would look at occupational safety and health, industrial</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">hygiene, and in some aspects, I think, fire protection.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Anyway, there was a position open, and I did not have the background in occupational safety and health, but I</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">talked to my manager, and talked to my manager, and finally I convinced him to put me in as a temporary</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">position, just as an acting manager. And so he went ahead and authorized that. So I then moved from the outer</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">areas down to 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">rea, and f</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">rom there, he basically said, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, Danny, you want this position. You think you can</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> do it? He says, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, here's a stack of resumes. You have two staff and tha</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">t's it, and a student worker. Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, so you</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">need to first of all hire and find some people that are qualified to be inspectors in occupational safety and health,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">and hygiene. And then you need to have all this done, by the way, and a program developed in four months.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">And so that was quite a challenge. It was really a challenge. I did hire</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">went outside and hired some people, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">they were good people. We were a very good team. I didn't know about occupational safety and health, but they</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">taught me. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> knew I could hire</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> people that were smarter than me. And I actually hired</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">and maybe for reference,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">one of the people was Judy Larson I don't know if she still is living. But she was a certified industrial hygienist. She</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">was working for PNNL, and she transferred over. I also hired a student that</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">well, no, he actually had graduated</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">with a mechanical engineering degree, and he wanted to do fire protection. So I said if he came over I'd get him</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">trained up. And so he came over. And I also hired another individual that was an industrial hygienist</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">or two other</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">individuals, a Clinton Stewart, and the first occupational safety and health person I hired, his name was Steve</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span class="SpellingError SCX133128238">Norling</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">. And he would be a good person to interview in the future. I would recommend that you do that.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">How do you spell the last name?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span class="SpellingError SCX133128238">Norling</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">. N-O-R-L-I-N-G. Steve. He's a good guy. He still works PRC. I haven't seen him in a few years, but I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">he's still out there. But anyway, we developed a program. We put the program </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">together, hired a contractor to</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">actually help us with the writing of the program, and we set it up. And we actually went out in the site, and first of</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">all, we had to compile all of the buildings, because we were basically responsible for all of the Westinghouse</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">people, and all of their facility.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">So we had to figure out all of the facilities in the whole site. And then we had to have some kind of system to figure</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">which ones we would go look at first, based upon risk. And so we developed that program, and to make a long</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">story short, the tagger team came back out to check the corrective actions on all of the site, and when they got to</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">us, our program, they had no findings, absolutely no findings, zero findings. And they only had one</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">recommendation, in that we needed to involve the employees more. And so then we transitioned into the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> Voluntary Protection Program</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">. But that was very outstandi</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">ng. And that really impressed</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> my management. So</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">then from acting manager, I was made manager of the organization, and proceeded on to continue my career.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">So what time frame was this, roughly, then?</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Oh, let's see. That was May 1991 to September 1992.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: Okay.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> Let's see. From there, I transitioned into basically manager</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">of safety programs assessments, which developed. And basically our mission at that point was to develop</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">baseline hazard assessment programs for facilities. And basically, for each facility that you had operations in, to</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">go and do a baseline hazard of everything, both the occupational safety, industrial hygiene, the nuclear aspects of</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">it, and any other types of hazards, so that for that facility, all of the known hazards of that facility would be known</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">and could be communicated, and basically programs and systems set up in place to keep the workers safe.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">From September 1992 to February 1994, I worked in that position. And after that, I worked as the manager of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> Voluntary Protection Program, or actually manager of Industrial Safety P</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">lanning, which consisted of managing the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> Voluntary Protection Program</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> for Westinghouse and for Fluor Hanford, doing their contract transition. And of</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">course the </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Voluntary Protection Program</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> is still out here on the site, as you probably well know, and there's</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">different</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">but I was very instrumental in getting that program off zero.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">After that, I worked as operations engineer. I transitioned and went back out to the site, to 105 K-East and K-West.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I worked as an operation sp</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">ecialist in development of the Canister Storage Facility and the Cold Vacuum D</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">rying</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> Fa</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">cility out at K-Basins</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> and at 200 </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">East</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, is where the C</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">anister</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> S</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">torage B</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">uilding is. And then also K-East and K-West</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">storage facility. I was assigned to the shift office, and worked as an OE, Operating Engineer, basically under the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">dir</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">ection of a shift manager. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> basically manage</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">d</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> the facility's work activities, coordinated those on a daily basis</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">to get work done, assigning work to the craft personnel, releasing work packages during lockout/</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span class="SpellingError SCX133128238">tagout</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">various different aspects of operations for that facility, managing that facility.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">After that, let's see, that was from</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> 1998 to 2002. And from January</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> 2002 to present, I've worked as a</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">ma</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">nagement assessment coordinator. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">nd responsibilitie</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">s are primarily to develop the Management A</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">ssessment</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Program and Integrated Evaluation P</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">lan database for DOE-RL. And let me explain</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, that Integrated Evaluation P</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">lan</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">is basically a database that takes RL's assessments and our assessments, and basically puts them together, so</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">we have one integrated plan.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: I see.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> And that effort is to actually benefit, or to alleviate, or eliminate redundancy in</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">assessments, teaming with the site and doing various different assessments, rather than they doing one and we</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">doing the same one. </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Yeah. </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">So that's currently where I'm at right now.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">So you've had several different sorts of positions. You've worked at </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">N Reactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">s, and K-Basins, and different parts</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">of the site. Of the different jobs you had, over the 35 years, different places you've worked, what was</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">was there</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">a specific job or place that was sort of the most challenging and/or most rewarding, that you got the most sense of</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">accomplishment or reward?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Yeah, there was. I would have to say probably the reactor operations was probably, I'd say, number one, because</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I know there was no other African Americans that had ever certified at </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">N Reactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, and then later on I found there wasn't any others in any of the other facilities of the plants. So I felt very good about that. And it was very</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">challenging. The second area would have been in developing the OSHA compliance program, because that was</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">basically, I knew basically nothing.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">And I had to go find people in order to work that were much smarter than me, and be able to develop a program</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">that would actually meet </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">the mu</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">ster of headquarters when they came back out. And it was very challenging. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">stayed up quite a few nights thinking about it and worrying about it. And yeah, it was very challenging. But it was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">very, very well-put-together program, and it met everything that they were looking for. So I'd have to say those two</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">positions were the most challenging, yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">When you were talking about working at the </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">N Reactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, you talked about riding the bus, and the sort of spirit, the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">sense of mission, I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, in the Cold War</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">So when the Cold War ended in 1989, 1990, did that sort of sense of mission change? Did it shift somewhere?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I guess I co</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">uldn't really expound on that, because w</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">hat I was speaking of was during the </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">time I was working at N Reactor. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">nd once the Cold War ended, I was at that time working</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">when did the Cold War end? That was--</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Well, I guess it depends, right? The Berlin Wall came down in '89.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: When the wall came down. Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">. Yeah. I was</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">where was I at </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span class="SpellingError SCX133128238">at</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> that time? Yeah</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, I was actually up in the 200 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">rea. I was oversight. I was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">part of an appraisal team doing integrated sa</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">fety appraisals out of the 200 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">rea. So I had transitioned away from</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">eactor some years before that. So I didn't really feel a difference with what I was doing. The real thing that I</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">seen</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> that really affected a lot of the people at </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">N Reactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> was when they announced that it was not going to</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—i</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">t no</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">longer had a mission. It wasn't going to be restarted. The reactor was run very hard, run very well, and produced</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">a lot of power, and was very good in its mission. And there was just a lot of pride there. And when that was</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">announced, there were a lot of people that really was hurt by that, because it was a reason to come to work. It</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">was really a reason to come, and a reason to work for something.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I want to go back to something you talked about early when you started talking. And you mentioned President</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Kennedy's visit when he dedicated the </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">N Reactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">. So do you remember that?</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> Did you--</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I actually remember that very well. And in fact, it was my father, and my mother, and my sister, and me, and my</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">friend, Ronnie Brown. I haven't seen him in years, but I understand he's doing well. My dad brought us all out to</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">the site, and drove with all of the, what seeming like thousands and thousands of cars, you know, we were just</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">kids, and all the way out to </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">N Reactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">. And yes, I definitely remember that. I can remember the helicopters coming</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">in, and the dust flying, and all that. And I didn't know that President Kennedy's hair was red.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> But on that day,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">seeing him that close, because me and my friend, we kind of wormed all the way up as close</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">we were just little</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">tiny kids, so people let us by.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">And we got up there, and we were able to stand up on</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">there was like different seating that people had brought.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">And we just kind of stepped up on one of the little seats that were there, and we had to get our heads up over the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">crowds. And we could see him when he stepped out of the helicopter, and he walked over to the podium. I can</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">remember that, just like the yesterday. I also remember that day very well because my sister</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—i</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">t must've been</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">over 100 degrees there</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">my sister was suffering from heat exhaustion. I remember when we actually came back,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">my mother was taking care of her. She was getting water into her, and everything. That was a very vivid day. That</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">was a very, very, very good day.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">What I also wanted to ask you was, like growing up in Pasco in the 50s and 60s, was it a segregated place?</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> Or was it—what was it like?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Not when I came along. Not actually in the 60s. I hear stories about the wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">y it was, but I don't know. I we</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">nt to</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Pasco High School. I went to Stevens Junior High School. It was all integrated. My grade school was Whittier. It</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">was integrated. It just was East Pasco, and it was primarily blacks. But also the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">re was Hispanics and whites all </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">went to that school, but it was predominantly black. Then after, actually, when I finished sixth grade, they divided</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">sixth grade, and then seventh, eighth, and ninth. It was junior high school.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I was selected, because of where I lived in East Pasco. I was assigned to go to Stevens Junior High School, which</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">was, at that time, way across town, and nothing, hardly anything around it. So we rode the bus over to Stevens.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">But prior to that, the majority of blacks, African Americans, H</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">ispanics, basically went to McLo</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">ughlin Junior High</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> School. But McLo</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">ughlin at that time was what is now Pasco City Hall. That used to be McLoughlin.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> But my brother</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">goes back, I mean my brother's deceased. And he passed away, in fact, about a year and three months ago.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: This was</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> your brother who was about 20 years older?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Yeah. He actually went</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">the high school at that time was McLoughlin, which then became City of Pasco.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> And</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Whittier was the grade school, junior high school when he went to school. I do have some pictures of him. He was</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">part of the patrol that went out and let the kids across the street and stuff. Yeah, he had the little patrol hat on, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">all that. I have all those pictures of him when he was really young. And by the way, my brother, he is 20 years</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">older than me, but he graduated from Pasco High. He then entered the Army</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">or no</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> he was drafted. He was</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">drafted, and he actually fought in the Korean War. And he corrected me. Every time I said Korean War, he said,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">no, it's the Korean conflict. It was not a war.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> And he served two terms in Vietnam, and was wounded.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">What was his first name?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Thurman. In fact I have a</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—here—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">obituary out of the paper. But he had what I consider a pretty impressive military</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">career.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Yeah, </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">20 years of active service.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Yes. Two terms in Vietnam, a very unpopular war. Me growing up in the 60s, it was, gee, I've got a brother that's</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">overseas fighting, with all the racial strife and stuff here in the United States. But he was very proud of his country,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">and he was willing to go and do whatever he was assigned to do.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">And so you had an older brother, and how many other siblings did you have?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I had </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">a sister. I actually had a half-brother and a half-sister, that—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">they didn't live here. They lived</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Margie lived in</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Wichita, Kan</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">sas. And my other brother, half-</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">brother, lived in</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I think he lived in Wichita, Kansas, too. I didn't really</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">get to know him that well. I got to know Margie pretty well. Then I had my sister, Marilyn. She graduated from</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Pasco High School. A teacher for 34 years in Yakima. She just retired about three years ago, I think. And still living</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">in Yakima. But she taught school. And those were all of my siblings.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">So would you say that Pasco, Tri-Cities was a good community to grow up in?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Yeah, I think so. I really think so. No, I don't have any</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I have to just</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">not so much the community as much as</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">pointing back to my parents. I think I had very</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I've seen other people, my friends with different parents and stuff.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">And I think I had some pretty good parents. My dad was very industrial. He worked construction as a laborer, but</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">he had rentals. And he had</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">and of course, I came along much later. </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">But he had houses and rentals, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">ut he</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">worked construction.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">And </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">him and his best friend, Mr. </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span class="SpellingError SCX133128238">Louzell</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> Johnson. He was a bricklayer. My dad was a laborer. They kind of</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">was a team. And they worked, and they built a lot of houses throughout Pasco, Kennewick, and Richland back in</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">the 50s and 60s. And he worked on a lot</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> of the dams on the Snake River.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, really?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: T</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">he building of a lot of the dams. And I</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">can just remember</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">well, I can remember my mother talking, and also my dad. And on Sundays we would take</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">drives, and he would take</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> us way out to where the dams</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> were being built, and stuff like this, for</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">something to do on Sunday for the family. And I didn't pay any attention to it really. But I can remember. I can</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">remember. Those were very good times. My mother, she worked at the Navy base that was in Pasco.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Have you heard</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Yes!</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">that there was a Navy base there? She worked in the laundry at the Navy base. And then we</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">came along, my sister and me, and so she just stayed home and took care of us, and my dad worked. But I spent</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">a lot of years painting, and fixing hot water tanks, and unplugging sinks when I was a kid. I was very cheap labor.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">So I learned to do that stuff really early in life. So that's pretty much my parents. They were very good people.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Anybody you ask, the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">y were very good people. There’s</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> the obituary of my mom. I didn't get the obituary of my dad.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I didn't find it. I have it somewhere, but there's this picture here. Anyway, go ahead. I just</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—I’m</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> kind of rambling. So</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">you can</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">it's a good thing you're editing this, and you can cut out all the--</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Are there any other events? You talked about the JFK visit. But any other events that sort of stand out in you</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">r</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> mind</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">from growing up, or from your</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> years working at Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">You know, I can't really</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">not really. Not really anything that really, really stands out.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">So overall, then, in looking back at your 35 years working at Hanford, how do you assess it as sort of a place to</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">work?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Overall, I'd say that Hanford, for me, it's been a very good place to work. I was given opportunity. You know, I had</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">opportunity. And anyone that's going to achieve anything in life, if they prepare themselves, </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">and </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">when the opportunity</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">comes, the</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">y step forward and they take it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> I mean you can't much ask for much more than that. My dad gave me</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">some advice, of course, when I first started working out there. You know, he said, make sure you keep your eyes</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">open, and you watch everything around you. And do not worry about if there's people against you, because God</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">will always put one person there for you. And I always remember he told me that. And so I think about that, that</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">different times during the time I worked out there, the people that have been there, that have assisted me and</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">mentored me, and helped me to continue to do better work, a better job, and basically to feed my family and keep</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">on living, as my mother would say.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Yeah.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> I can't think of any other outstanding</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">there's been a lot of accomplishments, just small little milestones that</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">have been made in safety and our management's commitment to safety, and our management's commitment to</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">the workers, and making sure that they are heard, and that they're actually dealt with, and talked to, and gotten</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">back to when they have safety concerns. And I guess there's a lot of pros and cons about that. But I see safety as</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">being not just the number one thing at Hanford, but being integrated in all that we do at Hanford, is how I see it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">And so I know there's a lot o</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">f things—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I've seen the media. I've </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">seen there are things that are</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> going on out there that I don't</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">know about. I have not worked in some of those areas. But for all of the areas that I have worked and been in,</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">that has been the primary concern, is safety.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">And you compare to what we have out at Hanford, compare it to out in the real world, and we have a lot of</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">commitment and concern, and actually management standing up, and taking responsibility for things, and actually</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">dealing with them, trying to correct them, and working to try to make events or things that happen not reoccur. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">actually brought a</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">you can get back to your question</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">s</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, but I'll forget. But I actually sent off</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">you know, I seen it on</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">television, and then a fellow emplo</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">yee told me about the Cold War Patriots?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: And you probably know.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> I got my little</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">certificate. And I got, actually, the pin.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> Whoops!</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> I actually got this pin that came with it. And I have it</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">of course I can't bring</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">my badge in here, because it's a Hanford badge. But I stuck my little pin on the badge, and so I thought that was</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">kind of neat.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Yeah. Actually, I talked to the Cold War Patriots last week </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">about the project here. Well, I don't have any other</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> questions for you.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: Oh, okay!</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: U</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">nless there's something else that we haven't talked about</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> yet</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, or I didn't ask you about that you</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> think is important, to--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> We can</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Eric can actually</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> film some of this sort of</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> once we’re done talking.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Eric</span>: Yeah, anything that you showed him we’d want to get photocopied.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: Okay, sure</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: They</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> could always integrate</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">that, then, into the interview.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">, sure. Sure.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Anyway, thanks very much for coming in--</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henr</span>y: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">You bet.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--and doing the interview. I really appreciate it.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Henry: Okay, yeah. </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">You know, if you don't step forward and make sure that you're a part of history, you won't be.</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Absolutely. So how did you</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">I was going to ask you, how did you hear about the project? </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Did </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">[INAUDIBLE]</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> contact you</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">?</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">Actually, I was at a PZAC meeting</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">President's Zero Accident Council</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">—</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX133128238">
<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX133128238"><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Henry</span>: --</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">meeting</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">and there was an individual that</span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX133128238">works--</span><span class="EOP SCX133128238"> </span></p>
</div>
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
300 Area
200 Area
N Reactor
105 K-East
105 K-West
K Basins
200 East
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1953-2014
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1978-2013
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald)
Long, John
Ruff, Wally
Larson, Judy
Stewart, Clinton
Norling, Steve
Brown, Ronnie
Henry, Thurman
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:52:04
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Danny Henry
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Danny Henry conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-06-1: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
6/2/2014
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Nuclear weapons plants--Environmental aspects--Washington (State)--Hanford Site.
Nuclear instruments & methods
Pasco(Wash.)
Richland(Wash.)
105 K-East
105 K-West
200 Area
200 East
300 Area
B Plant WESF
K Basins
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
N Reactor
Washington State Public Power Supply System.
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F949c34824c3baa683668f048b76a3f7c.jpg
a7532e182135be110ec23c9c1739ee92
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Ff4c175dd0e7d7618799f999a667b9b3a.mp4
8ac495b3421b632f99b868b055771a34
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Joe Soldat
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div>
<div>
<p><strong><span>Northwest Public Television | </span><span>Soldat_Joe</span></strong></p>
<p><span><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Bauman</span>: Okay, all right. </span><span>W</span><span>ell, w</span><span>e'll go ahead and get started.</span><span> All right.</span><span> What I'm going to have you do first is say your name. And then spell it for me.</span></span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Joe Soldat</span>: Okay.</span><span> Joseph Soldat, S-O-L-D-A-T.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Thank you, and my name is Robert Bauman. And we're conducting an oral history interview. Today's date is </span><span>August 6</span><span>th</span><span> of 2013. And the interview is being conducted on the campus of Washington State University</span><span>,</span><span> Tri-Cities. </span><span>And so I'm talking today with Joe Soldat about his experiences working at the Hanford site. </span><span>So I wonder</span><span>--</span><span>let's start by maybe you tell me how you came to Hanford, what brought you here, how you heard </span><span>about the place.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>When I graduated from the University of Colorado with a degree in chemical engineering, I worked for a while at </span><span>the Denver General Hospital, which was associated with the university. And they lost their research grant. So I </span><span>heard from somebody that there was a place called Hanford. </span><span>So I wrote a letter to the employment department at GE. And I got a thing back, of course, that says, we got your </span><span>letter on file. But it wasn't too long afterwards they called me, and told me to come. So I agreed to come out, sight </span><span>unseen, on the train. </span><span>And I got off to train. I looked at all the sagebrush</span><span>,</span><span> like everybody, and said, oh, I'll give it a year or two. That was </span><span>1948. And I stayed on the project for 47 years.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Ah. </span><span>And so</span><span> you</span><span> arrived in this place of sage brush and desert.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>What sort of housing did you find?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, when I came they put me in a barracks in North Richland,</span><span> the </span><span>old military barracks</span><span>--</span><span>small rooms for two people </span><span>with a closet and a dresser. And </span><span>showers were down the hall. Maid</span><span> came in once a week to change the linens </span><span>and towels. </span><span>And I was paying $0.20 a day for rent. Eventually, I got to move to Richland</span><span>--</span><span>the dorm M4. And on the corner </span><span>right now is a bank where M2 used to be. And </span><span>M2 became a motel for a while—s</span><span>ome guy bought it. </span><span>And then it fin</span><span>ally became a bank. But my wife-to-</span><span>be lived in the women's dormitories with W numbers. And so we </span><span>finally met, and ended up getting married in '52.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>So did you live in the dorms for about four years from about '48 to '52</span><span> then</span><span>?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Yeah, before I got married, yeah. And we managed to get a house. Because I was in radiation protection, we had </span><span>some small priority on getting housing. And we picked out a p</span><span>re-cut on the south side, three-</span><span>bedroom. So we lived </span><span>there till '63.</span><span> And moved in a </span><span>ranch house where I live now on Torbett, in a remodeled ranch house with an extra bedroom.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>About how large were the dorms that you lived in?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>The dormitories? Well, I'd say maybe as big as from here to that wall square.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>About how many people lived in the dormitories as a whole?</span></p>
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<div><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: On the</span><span> whole, I don't know. They had</span><span>--</span><span>since I was on weekly salary, I had one kind of dormitory. Those that were </span><span>hired on monthly salary had a little fancier ones. And the women had their own real good ones with a fence </span><span>around it.</span></div>
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<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><br />Bauman</span>: </span><span>So what was Richland like in the late '40s and early '50s in the community?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, when I finally moved into town</span><span>, </span><span>the town, essentially, was closed. If you didn't work there, you could</span><span>n’t</span><span> live </span><span>there. You could come in. There was no fence around it. </span><span>But if you retired, you had to go somewhere else to live. There was no retirement housing. And the city, when I got </span><span>my house, supplied oil, or coal, free for the housing. So the rent was fairly reasonable at that time.</span><span> And they ha</span><span>d the fe</span><span>deral government until, I think</span><span> it was '58, when they sold houses to us, and got their own </span><span>governme</span><span>nt. One of my friends, Bob McKee</span><span>, was on the church council. And he became, eventually, mayor of </span><span>Richland. </span><span>His funeral is coming up Thursday. He died away back in the spring. But they delayed the funeral for relatives, I </span><span>guess. </span><span>But, anyway, I got a reasonable price for my house, I thought. It was like about $9,000 plus, because I had put up </span><span>a fence, and a little thing for storage of garbage cans and stuff. They thought it was the enhanced above the </span><span>original value. So I got a little better value. </span><span>We had the option of taking a buy back offer. If you wanted to sell the house back to the government in x number </span><span>of years, they would give you a 15% discount on your house. But I didn't opt for that. </span><span>I figured by then, I was going to stay.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span><span> They had a cafeteria in a building next</span><span> to the 703 Building, that old Q</span><span>uonset</span><span>hut-shaped building, that later became commercial facilities. But we could go in there for breakfast and get meals </span><span>that were partly for military style, like powdered scrambled eggs and stuff like that.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And w</span><span>hat about entertainment at the time you were living in the dorms? Were there things to do entertainment-wise?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: O</span><span>h, o</span><span>kay</span><span>. T</span><span>he people that lived in the dormitories could join the dorm club. We did all kinds of thing</span><span>s. We</span><span> had parties, dances, </span><span>skiing, bike riding, hiking—</span><span>everything before all these individual groups were established. So they covered the </span><span>whole share. I </span><span>learned to ski a little bit at Spout </span><span>Springs, made it down the beginner's hill.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And you said you met your wife during that time?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Yes.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Was she working also at the Hanford Site</span><span>, then</span><span>?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>She was a secretary. And she worked for a </span><span>while. We got married in June, a</span><span>nd in December, she had to quit </span><span>because she was pregnant. They would not allow</span><span>,</span><span> at that time</span><span>,</span><span> pregnant women to work after fourth or fifth month. </span><span>And then she never did go back to work. But she got involved in things like volunteering at the Red Cross, and </span><span>Republican Women's Club, and all the things kept her busy.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Did you meet as part of some social activity? Or was it on the job</span><span>,</span><span> at work that you met?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>She did all this being a housewife, all those things.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>But how did the two of you meet?</span><span> Was it at a--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>I'm trying hard to remember.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: O</span><span>h, o</span><span>kay</span><span>.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>I think I was introduced by a mutual friend, a guy that I used to bowl together. That's the other </span>thing we had for <span>entertainment in Richland, was bowling. And I liked doing that. </span><span>But one of the guys I bowled with, we went to the restaurant</span><span>. Next to the Richland Players</span><span> Theater used to be a </span><span>drug store, a</span><span>nd they had a little cafeteria in there. </span><span>We went in there, a</span><span>nd we met these two women. And he knew one of them. The other one was going to become </span><span>my wife.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
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<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Let's move now to the work you did at Hanford. What was your first job?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>My first job while I was waiting for my clearance was in wh</span><span>at was the bioassay lab in 700 A</span><span>rea doing statistical </span><span>analysis of the resu</span><span>lts of the analysis of employee</span><span>s</span><span>’</span><span> urine for radioactive contamination. I wasn't allowed to know </span><span>everything I was analyzing. But I did a statistical analysis. </span><span>I had </span><span>a</span><span> orange card, which allowed me in, because I didn't have my clearance. Theoretically, I was supposed to </span><span>be escorted in and out. But there was such a mob of people going in and out they never bothered to ask me who</span><span>my escort was.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>So where was this at?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: 700 Area, 703 B</span><span>uilding</span><span>—</span><span>the old one. And the b</span><span>ioassay lab was inside the 716 B</span><span>uilding, I think it was.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And so how long did you do that?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>I did that</span><span>--</span><span>well, I came in August, '48. And it was five months before I got my clearance. Then I went out to T Plant </span><span>as a radiation monitor in training.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And how long did you work there?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Oh, gosh, I worked there for a couple of years. And then I got transferred to environmental monitoring. Out there </span><span>in 2-East Area, environmental monitorin</span><span>g people were housed in an old Q</span><span>uonset hut next to the coal pile. </span><span>You had to go in and sweep your desk off with a broom every morning to get the coal dust off of it.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span><span> And I stayed </span><span>there for a </span><span>while. I did some projects, calibrating some instruments, and other things.</span><span> And then we moved to 329 Building in 300 </span><span>Area. I think it was in the early '50s. And I stayed in environmental </span><span>monitoring work ever since</span><span>,</span><span> through the rest of my career</span><span>,</span><span> writing impact statements, deriving equations for </span><span>calculating dose to the public from releases at Hanford in food, and water, and air, and stuff like that. </span><span>And my models are still being used some places. I was</span><span>--</span><span>we didn't have a lot of data. But I learned from the turtle </span><span>you don't make progress unless you </span><span>stick your neck out. That’s how they do. S</span><span>ometimes throw darts at the chemistry </span><span>chart on the wall. And say, well, this one should behave like that one, and put together what we could know. </span><span>And my coworker Dave Baker was a computer guy. I'm not very good at computers. But he computerized a lot of </span><span>my equations and stuff. Between us, we agreed and what kind of factors to use. </span><span>There was some literature from the fallout studi</span><span>es. There was a fellow named </span><span>Yoka</span><span> Ng</span><span>, </span><span>N-G</span><span>,</span><span> in </span><span>California who had to put together a lot of data for the fallout branch on concentrations of various chemical </span><span>elements in soil and plants, which made it very easy for me to predict the update of the radionuclides.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>So</span><span>,</span><span> what kind of findings did you have at some of your research about things that happened at Hanford in terms of </span><span>the air, and water, and so forth?</span></p>
<p><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span>Soldat</span></span><span>: </span><span>Well, depends on what you want. It</span><span> all started in '58 when Jack Healy</span><span> gave a paper at the International </span><span>Atomic Energy Symposium. And he talked about what we were measuring in the environment, and the kind of </span><span>findings that we had. </span><span>And we eventually created a maximum individual person who ate big amounts of food, and drank milk from cows, </span><span>and fish from the river, and all that. And then we calculated the dose he would get from concentrations in these </span><span>things. And things were </span>generally below the limits that they had at those times. <span>Originally, in the early years the limits for the public were the same as workers. It took them a while to figure out </span><span>that there are, perhaps, more sensitive people in the public because workers were all health screened and </span><span>everything. So they lowered all the</span><span> public limits by a factor of ten</span><span> to be safer. </span><span>And we also had to put controls on releases to the atmosphere. The manager of the radiation protection </span><span>de</span><span>partment—it call was called health instruments at first—</span><span>set limits for the reprocessing plants, and how much </span><span>iodine they could release, and other things. And they worked hard during those years in the '50s and '60s putting </span><span>in new cleanup equipment on the stacks</span><span>—</span><span>sand fi</span><span>lters. And then eventually PUREX</span><span> had fiberglass filters to remove </span><span>the particles and stuff. </span><span>So I've installed sampling equipment on all of the stacks</span><span>, and the separation there is, s</span><span>om</span><span>e of them before and </span><span>after the cleanup so they could see what the efficiency was. And I kept track</span><span>,</span><span> by goin</span><span>g to the operating gallery</span><span>,</span><span> what </span><span>kind of metal they were processing, how old it was, how much it had decayed, so</span><span> we could relate things to what </span><span>we were</span><span> finding at the stacks. </span><span>That data is still around. And when they did the dose reconstruction under Bruce Na</span><span>pier, they used a lot of my old </span><span>data about the stack releases. Fortunately, Bruce had an office next to me.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span><span> So we communicated.</span></p>
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<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>So you worked there for how many years at Hanford?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>47.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>47, you must have seen a lot of changes in technology, instrumentation, those sorts of things?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>And administration.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span><span> Yeah. GE, at one time, I think it must have been in the '50s, </span><span>decided that they would have no </span><span>job descripti</span><span>on titled assistant, or under-</span><span>secretary, or whatever like that. There w</span><span>ould be no committees doing any </span><span>administration. Every job had to have a written, definitive description specifying the d</span><span>uties, and the authorities, and </span><span>the obligations. And it worked we</span><span>ll for a long time. </span><span>And then before that, when I wanted to get a paper cleared, I had to go through</span><span> about half a dozen signatures, </span><span>including public relations, of course. But then later on, I</span><span>--</span><span>essentially with </span><span>my boss and one guy from public </span><span>relations</span><span>--</span><span>they all had to clear my public paper</span><span>s. And it worked out well then. Then Battelle</span><span> took over, reorganized things a little bit. And a funny thing hap</span><span>pened. I had a secret clearance </span><span>with GE. When </span><span>Battelle </span><span>took over, they decided that they didn't want to hav</span><span>e too many secret clearances to </span><span>manage. So they lowered my clearance and several other people</span><span>’s. </span><span>I want to the library to get a report I had written in 1949, classified secret. They gave</span><span> it to me on microfiche. I read </span><span>it, and I asked for a full printed copy. The remark I got eventually was, you can't</span><span> it. You're not cleared for it. </span><span>What are you going to do, brainwash me?</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span><span> So </span><span>Battelle </span><span>had to raise my clearance back to what it was before.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Because you had written secret reports?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>I talked about iodine releases to the environment, a</span><span>nd measurements inside the 200 A</span><span>reas.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>I understand you were involved in a comprehensive food model?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>What was that?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, about the late '60s, Westinghouse had a project to try and calculate dose</span><span>s to the US public from a large </span><span>nuclear economy, especially reactors, and ignoring the waste part. And they </span><span>needed to know what would be in </span><span>food, and </span><span>water, and air, and everything. </span><span>And a fellow by the name of Bill Templeton who was an aquatic biologist worked with me at first. And then, f</span><span>inally, he said, okay</span><span>, </span>Joe. You're doing all right. So he turned me loose. But I <span>had a fellow, Dennis Harr, who came to Hanford from Alaska. </span><span>He was a fores</span><span>t hydrologist. They assigned hi</span><span>m to me to help look up the fa</span><span>ctors I needed. He came here to </span><span>WSU</span><span>--</span><span>or to Pullman, really</span><span>—</span><span>and looked up all of thinking about how much </span><span>a cow eats, how much water they </span><span>drink, and how many acres of this and that is growing. So he was very helpful lo</span><span>oking all that stuff up for me. </span><span>I just sat down and wrote an equation. I h</span><span>ad heard that in the Windscale</span><span> acciden</span><span>t that the iodine they released </span><span>stuck about 25% to plants. So I used that factor.</span><span> And I added that stuff from </span><span>Yoka</span><span> Ng with the soil to plant </span><span>ratios. So I modeled the uptake from soil, and combine all that in a big long equ</span><span>ation with about 21 parameters. </span><span>And I gave a paper on that</span><span> at an ANS meeting in the '70s. </span><span>And I also developed a diagram</span><span>—a </span><span>pathway </span><span>diagram I call it</span><span>--</span><span>with all of the line</span><span>s from all of the sources going </span><span>across and interacting. And then at the end, they combined for the dose at the end. </span><span>And that got published, too, in my '70 paper. </span><span>And I did put all that stuff together with some other things for </span><span>Reg</span><span> G</span><span>uide 1</span><span>.109. It included my calculated </span><span>dose factors for people of four ages</span><span>--</span><span>four years, 11 years, 17 or 16, and adu</span><span>lt, because the organ sizes are </span><span>differe</span><span>nt. So the doses are different. That was in there, my food model was in there, a</span><span>nd then I developed a model </span><span>for exposure to sediment in the </span><span>Columbia River. Dick Perkins had measured three or four radionuclides in the se</span><span>diment in the Columbia River as </span><span>best you could, because it's awful rocky on the bottom. And analysis of that to</span><span>ld me what the relationship was </span><span>between the water and the sediment, assuming it had been running for many year</span><span>s, and had time to come to equilibrium. </span><span>So I developed the equation for that, whic</span><span>h included the radioactive half-</span><span>life of the</span><span> elements. And that was used in </span><span>several instances in impact statements about</span><span>--</span><span>I think it was '59, t</span><span>hey had something called a Calve</span><span>rt Cliffs </span><span>Decision, in which they were trying to build a reactor. And the government wa</span><span>s forced to do an environmental </span><span>impact statement on every existing</span><span> reactor and every new reactor. </span><span>First rule was 100 pages</span><span>’ length. But it still grew,</span><span> because people were copy</span><span>ing what other people had done. Well, this flew, so we'll put it in. </span><span>Then they add unique things to their site. And it kept growing and growing. But the</span><span>re were 50 reactors that had to </span><span>have impact statements. And they split it up three ways between</span><span> Argonne</span><span> Nat</span><span>ional Laboratory, Oak Ridge, and Hanford. </span><span>And I got involved in the Hanford one. First time I used my sediment model was </span><span>for plants on the shore of Lake </span><span>Michigan, and exposure to people standing on the shoreline</span><span>--</span><span>first time I used it off-site. And we calculated the </span><span>dose someone might receive from the sediment contaminated from the water which came from the reactor outlet</span><span> that was dilut</span><span>ed before it got to where the fishermen was. So that was added to the impact statement, along with </span><span>the fish, and</span><span> all</span><span> the other stuff that we normally did.</span></p>
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<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Hanford, of course, when you first arrived was all about prod</span><span>uction. But at some point that </span><span>shifted to cleanup. Did </span><span>that shift impact your work in anyway?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, yes and no.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span><span> It changed exactly what I was doing. But I was still doing environmental stuff. </span><span>For cleanup</span><span>—</span><span>well, before that we were doing impact statements for new things at Hanford, like a front end for</span><span> PUREX to do</span><span> 100</span><span> N</span><span> fuel, and all kinds of stuff. Afterwards, I was doing impact statements and studies for</span><span>proposed cleanup. There was a big, fat three-volume document</span><span>--</span><span>I think it was SWASH</span><span> 1400, it started out. It</span><span> ended up being ERDA</span><span> 1400. </span><span>And in there, they studied every possible waste source, contamination source, potential for accidents and </span><span>exposure. And I did a lot of </span><span>those calculations. So one thing they wanted, which is very current today, they wanted </span><span>to know, what would happen if a tank leaked? </span><span>They said, what would happen if 1,000 gallons of tank leaked all at once</span><span>? So I got a guy, Andy </span><span>Reisenhau</span><span>er</span><span>, in</span><span> the</span><span> water department we called them. He was doing ground water studies. </span><span>And he figured it out. With this modeling, he showed how small the contaminated area would be, and how,</span><span> essentially</span><span> harmless and well-confined to the immediate vicinity it was. And I get all upset now a days about the </span><span>clamor about everybody that don't understand what's going on, even the governor. </span><span>[LAUGHTER] </span><span>At least he tried.</span></p>
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<div><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>So when you started working for GE, what other contractors</span><span>--</span><span>you worked for Battelle?</span><span> Is that right?</span></div>
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<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><br />Soldat</span>: Yeah. Battelle </span><span>just took over everything we were doing. Almost all people came directly to </span><span>Battelle.</span><span> There were a</span><span> few that stayed in the 200 A</span><span>reas the reprocessing areas. B</span><span>ut some of them later came to Battelle. </span><span>So a few </span><span>stayed out there, worked for the various contractors they had. </span><span>But it was nice, because having been altogether in GE, I could still communicate with those people when I needed </span><span>information and data on releases, and access, and things. I could talk to them directly. I didn't have to go up and </span><span>down the channels.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>You mentioned earlier that you had written a secret report. And you had to go back and look at it, they </span><span>initially </span><span>told you </span><span>you couldn't. As a site that, obviously, emphasized security and secrecy, I wonder if you could talk about how the </span><span>emphasis on secrecy and security impacted your work in any</span><span>way.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, I told you what happened to me</span><span> when I was working in the 700 A</span><span>rea. And I </span><span>got here in</span><span> '48. In '53,</span><span> they renewed the Q</span><span> clearances. I got called in the FBI for interview. </span><span>They said, when you were in college</span><span>—</span><span>that's like in '46 or '47</span><span>--</span><span>you attended a meeting of, I think it was, SDS, </span><span>which was supposed to be a Communist-related organization. They had a meeting in the park. </span><span>They were complaining about their treatment. And it was a big hullabaloo. And I decided I'd go down and see what </span><span>was going on. </span><span>Apparently, they had spies watching all these people. So they started asking me questions about that. And I </span><span>explained it away to their satisfactio</span><span>n. They said, do you ever read </span><span>T</span><span>he Communist Manifesto</span><span>? I said, no, but </span><span>maybe I should someday.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>When you first started working there, did you take the bus out to the site?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Pardon?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>When you first started working there, how did you get to the site and back? Did you take the bus out? Did you </span><span>drive a car?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>There was no background checks when I first came, because I had that work card. It took them five months to do </span><span>all the investigations of relatives and friends to find out if I was reliable. And I</span><span> finally got my Q clearance. </span><span>But they may have reviewed things other than that one I know about since. But the FBI was doing it at that time. </span><span>Later on, they farmed it out to a different government agency. And I don't think the checks were quite as thorough </span><span>at that time. </span><span>But you couldn't drive through the project like you can today. When you want to go to the west side, you can drive </span><span>down towards Vantage through the project. It's all right. But it used to be all sealed off. You had to go around by </span><span>Robinson's barn to get where you're going.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And when you went through security at the gate, did you have to show a badge?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, after I got my clearance, they checked everybody's badge go</span><span>ing through. At one time in 300 A</span><span>rea, they had </span><span>a badge rack. You would put your badge in the rack to go home. They didn't want you taking it off site. </span><span>Well, one thing, you might get exposed from TV.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span><span> The old TV sets had a relatively high energy coming out at the </span><span>bottom. Some kid sat there with his feet under the TV set, he might get a little bit of exposure. </span><span>And so one day, I wore some radiation dosimeters, those pencil dosimeters on myself while I was watching TV at </span><span>a distance. And then I put some by the TV set to compare the readings. And there was a small difference.</span><span> [LAUGHTER] Yeah, a</span><span>t first, </span><span>I thought security was a little lax because of the way they w</span><span>ere letting you go through 700 A</span><span>rea</span><span>,</span><span> first few months. </span><span>But it got pretty tight afterwards.</span></p>
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<div><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Were there any events or incidents, anything that happened</span><span>—accidents of any kind, </span><span>that happened when you </span><span>were working at Hanford, or strange occurrences? Anything sort of stand out in your mind?</span></div>
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<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><br />Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, there was a few, of course. They had limit</span><span>s they set on the releases for i</span><span>odine-131. They had an experiment </span><span>in whi</span><span>ch they wanted to have short coole</span><span>d fuel, which would have more iodine in it, to released short-lived inert </span><span>gases like Xenon and Krypton to the atmosphere so the Air Force could fly around with a plane and measure it. </span><span>As I figure out, the idea was they could fly around Russia and see what kind of production they might be having </span><span>from what they could detect in the air over a facility. Well, when they had</span><span>—</span><span>it's called a green run, when they had </span><span>that, the iodine came out. A</span><span>nd there was a little bit of to-</span><span>do about that in later years, and people being exposed. </span><span>And even before the iodine releases were controlled, there was quite a few releases. But in later years, I used my</span><span> rules of thumb I learned, and</span><span> my models to predict what doses probably were in the early years before they had </span><span>reconstruction done. And I came probably within a factor of two of what they spent millions of dollars to calculate.</span><span> [LAUGHTER] </span><span>But that was one thing. And then they had some fuel that was mislab</span><span>eled, and it was short cooled, t</span><span>hat released </span><span>iodine in t</span><span>he 200 A</span><span>reas. </span><span>And we went out and studied the vegetation on the project, and all around. Well, it turns out the iodine was held in </span><span>the tanks for a while. And the vegetation that we measured didn't have any until they transferred the solution to </span><span>another tank. </span><span>Then the iodine escaped. And then we could find it on the vegeta</span><span>tion—we found it in the Pasco a</span><span>rea, and West </span><span>Richland. And the meteorological group predicted it would</span><span>--</span><span>according to the weather, it should</span><span> be</span><span> high in north of </span><span>Pasco. Well, it wasn't high there. </span><span>It was higher in Benton City than it was in Richland. An</span><span>d there was a Benton City farm tha</span><span>t had milk. And we sampled </span><span>that milk every day for a long time, and plotted the curve as it decayed. </span><span>And I backtracked it for a couple of days that we had missed. And I calculated the radiation dose a kid might have </span><span>drinking that milk. And the standard model was one liter of milk a day. </span><span>And I calculated all that. And we couldn't get the kids to come in to get a thyroid check for a</span><span>while. The mother was </span><span>reluctant. Finally, he came in months later. And at that point, I predicted the thyroid burden ought to be 70 </span><span>picocuries. And it turned out, he was measured 72 picocuries.</span><span> Then s</span><span>omething really interesting happened with that. Some anti-</span><span>nuclears</span><span> said that I had reported on thi</span><span>s thing, a</span><span>nd the </span><span>dose was less than a fraction of the limits. So it's all right to die by a fraction at a time. </span><span>Somebody else picked that up, and said I had pin pointed the death of a small child drinking that milk. So some</span><span> guy from Oak Ri</span><span>dge, his name was Piper, investigated all this stuff, and tried to put everything straight, and </span><span>straighten out all these misconceptions. But you can see what happens to the press.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>So what time period was that?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>That was in '63. It's all publ</span><span>ished in </span><span>Health Physics Journal</span><span>, and all that stuff. They had an iodine symposium in</span><span> 1963—</span><span>a biology symposium. People all over the world came here. </span><span>And we met in the old community house, this little anteroom off to the side, with swamp coolers. And it was 116 in </span><span>Pasco.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span><span> It was a mess. </span><span>But we published a whole book of the papers. And I have a couple in here, at least by abstract anyway. I learned a</span><span>lot about the different factors, again, and improved my knowledge of what was going on.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>So when there were releases of iodine, you were involved in calculating the--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Measurements?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Yeah, another thin</span><span>g I did was I stood out by a met</span><span> tower wearing a respirator device that </span>measured my <span>breathing rate by volume. And they released iodine</span><span>--</span><span>I think it was 135 or 132, a real short </span><span>half life</span><span>--</span><span>that</span><span> another </span><span>guy</span><span> and I</span><span> could stand there and inhale. And then we went and got our thyroids counted, and watched the decay, and </span><span>integrated the whole thing. </span><span>And my </span><span>total dose was probably about ten</span><span> mil</span><span>lirem</span><span>, compared to the limit, which was 1,500 a year at that time. Herb </span><span>Parker got real mad, because we hadn't chec</span><span>ked with him to see if it was okay</span><span>. He said we should have our thyroids </span><span>examined before we did it.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
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<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: So you were used as test subjects?</span></p>
<p><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span>Solda</span></span><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">t</span>: The other release was from RE</span><span>DOX</span><span>--</span><span>ruthenium</span><span>--</span><span>there was two </span><span>rutheniums</span><span>:</span><span> 106, and 103. And the scrubber in the </span><span>plant that was supposed to remove these from their exhaust failed. And it released about 40 curie of ruthenium </span><span>out the stack. </span><span>It was detectable on Wahluke Slope, and all the way up just southeast of Spokane. It missed all of real good </span><span>farms, and everything, fortunately. So we went up collecting a lot of samples from that. </span><span>Then there was a contamination on Hanford itself on the roofs of some of the buildings and the ground. So that </span><span>was all cleaned up. I spent some time monitoring transportation workers who were going around picking up</span><span> particles around the 200 A</span><span>reas. </span><span>The other thing that happened is they found radioactive rabbits and coyotes</span><span>--</span><span>BC trenches, in 2 </span><span>East</span><span> Area</span><span>. They </span><span>disposed of waste which had cesium. And, of course, it's a salt relative to sod</span><span>ium in the</span><span> nuclei</span><span>c</span><span> chart. </span><span>And the rabbits got in there were eating the waste with the cesium, and digging down. And the coyotes were </span><span>eating the rabbits. And so we were finding this contaminated environment, and traced it down to that. </span><span>It didn't travel more than a mile or two. Rabbits have a very short range. They don't travel more than a couple </span><span>miles. And so that had to all get cleaned up, and cove</span><span>red over, put to rest. There</span><span> was a few things like that.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Did any of these incidents or releases</span><span>--</span><span>were there ever any that you looked at, studied, calculated, and found</span><span> that</span><span> it </span><span>was a risk to employees, or to the public at all?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>No, most of them were</span><span>--</span><span>the release of the strontium, the </span><span>highest concentration found at Wahluke Slope </span><span>across the river was</span><span>--</span><span>if a guy stood there and breathed the whole time the cloud time went by, he might have got </span><span>80 milligram to the lungs. And, of course, at that time, we were getting 100 milligram a year from radiation. And </span><span>the limit to the public was 1,500. So, really, it wasn't that significant.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>I wanted to ask you about a little bit different part of it. President Kenned</span><span>y visited in 1963 to open the N </span><span>Reactor.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Yeah, I want to see--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Were you there? Were you part of it?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>I was standing far back in the</span><span> crowd</span><span>. And I could barely see the President. They opened up to the site to the </span><span>public to go there. And I rode with a friend. And he and his son went with me. We watched that thing.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Do you rememb</span><span>er anything else about that day?</span><span> Or just being really far away?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, I remember when the helicopter landed with the President inside it</span><span>,</span><span> kicked up an awful lot of dust. I was glad </span><span>that maybe it wasn't all that contaminated for people to breathe.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Do you remember any other time when any dignitaries came to the site?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Yeah, I just noticed something I looked at this week. Nixon visited Battelle facilities, the main research building. </span><span>And Ronald Re</span><span>a</span><span>gan was here one time.</span></p>
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</div>
<div><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>I wondered what you would consider the greatest challenges you had during your years working Hanford, and the </span><span>greatest rewards?</span></div>
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<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><br />Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, I don't know. The least of my challenges was working with administration, because usually they managed to </span><span>turn me loose when they found out what I was doing. I think that the challenge was finding data in the open </span><span>literature that I could use to put into my models. I'd go to the library in those days, you would ask for literature, and </span><span>sit down, and read it, and take notes</span><span>—</span><span>not like today. </span><span>So I found things, eventually, from researche</span><span>rs in Russia who had studied </span><span>uptake</span><span> and radionuclides in </span><span>fish,</span><span> and studies at Oak R</span><span>idge on fallout in cattle, and all these things. But finding data was a little hard, not because it </span><span>was classified. But </span><span>it was in the open literature, a</span><span>nd you had to think about where it might be located. That was </span><span>one of my most challenging things. </span><span>The other challenge was to learning how to use Word Perfect. </span><span>[LAUGHTER] </span><span>My secretary forced me to learn it. She helped </span><span>teach me because she couldn't read my handwriting. That was a challenge for a while. I still have trouble with </span><span>computers. </span><span>But I think the biggest reward was all of the recognition I got from management, and Health Physics Society, and </span><span>other grou</span><span>ps. I got a file about that thick that I labeled K</span><span>u</span><span>dos. And when they have the r</span><span>ecouplex incident in 234</span><span>-</span><span>5</span><span>that had a solution that wasn't handled right. And it had a</span><span> nuclear</span><span> re</span><span>action, in an outfit called recouplex. </span><span>We worked a week or so overtime in evening, and around the clock some of us, working on the effects of that, and </span><span>the dose to the people. And I had measurements of the stack ga</span><span>ses. And I predicted from the st</span><span>ack gases how </span><span>many fissions had occurred in that pot. And then the other guys, the real nuclear experts, came and did theirs. </span><span>And we agreed within a factor of two again. </span><span>But, yeah, it never really did much off-site again</span><span>. It dissipated before it got </span><span>anywheres</span><span>. We plotted the path, a</span><span>nd by the time it reached the boundary of the site over towards Pas</span><span>co it was essentially nothing. B</span><span>ecause when</span><span>you have a nuclear reaction like that, </span><span>you generate a lot of short-lived</span><span> radionuclide</span><span>s with seconds, and minutes, and </span><span>days. And so it really wasn't that effective off-site.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>What was the time period of that incident?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>I want to say April '62, I guess.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Being involved in environmental monitoring, and monitoring the effects of releases and that sort of thing, did you </span><span>at any point</span><span>—</span><span>it seems like at some point, nuclear power became</span><span>--</span><span>like, certa</span><span>in groups opposed that, right?</span><span> You had</span><span>groups that</span><span> became</span><span> opposed </span><span>to </span><span>nuclear power</span><span>, and the use of--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Obtained what?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Opposed to nuclear power--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Oh, oh.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Anti-nuclear stuff. D</span><span>id you feel that at all at work</span><span>, I mean or stuff you were involved in</span><span>?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, yeah</span><span>--</span><span>well, there are people off-</span><span>site who</span><span>--</span><span>that story I told you about that small child. And then there was </span><span>another guy, he worked at the University of Pittsburgh. I'm trying to remember his name. </span><span>He predicted all the dire re</span><span>sults of fallout from strontium-90. He gave a talk at strontium-</span><span>90 symposium in biology</span><span>put on here one time. </span><span>And he came to me a</span><span>nd says, I need to get my slides remade. </span><span>What he was doing was correlating</span><span> the concentration of strontium-</span><span>90 in milk and leukemia in children. Well, this </span><span>curve went to pot. And he decided he needed to summarize, average it, over two years. And eventually that went </span><span>to pot. It didn't work. </span><span>So then he eventually tried four years. And he asked me if I could get his slides rebuilt for his talk so he could use </span><span>them for a four-ye</span><span>ar average. So I went to Bill Bair who</span><span> was the manager of the symposium. </span><span>And he said, sure, we'll do it for him. And </span>they did. And he used them. Of course, a lot of people in the audience <span>knew better than to believe what he was saying.</span></p>
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<div>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Is there anything that we haven't talked about yet that you would like to talk about? That I haven't asked you </span><span>about?<br /></span><br />Soldat: Well, I got some awards. I don't know if you're interested. The local chapter Health Physics Society gave me what's called a Herb Parker Award for Distinguished Service. And then I got elected fellow of the National Society. And then I got the National Distinguished Scientific Achievement Award from the Health Physics Society, which was sort of a review of my total career, and all the, quote, the great things that I had done. The environmental section in the National Health Physics Society established an award for environmental radioactivity measurements type of stuff. And a fellow, a friend, Jack Corley, who worked here, and I got the first ones that they awarded for that as distinguished service. And then I got a plaque from Bill Bair when he was retiring. So he's such a nice guy, he awarded about three or four plaques to employees outlining their distinguished careers. I was one of them. And it's for all the work I had done on radioiodine. So I got that plaque.</p>
<p>Bauman: And you're involved in the Herbert Parker Foundation? Is that right? Are you part of that?</p>
<p>Soldat: I volunteered not to get involved in the Parker Foundation. I let Ron Kathren, and Bill Bair and Dale Denham, and all these guys do it. I worked for a little while after I retired for Dave Muller and Associates to help with the down-winders case, writings some papers on it, and releases, and another one with Jack Selby on plutonium releases from the 200 Areas that were used in the hearings for that business. I haven't really--well, people call me up every once in a while and ask questions—pro bono. [LAUGHTER]</p>
<p>Bauman: Overall, how would you assess your 47 years working at Hanford as a place to work?</p>
<p>Soldat: For me, it was a great job. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I had wonderful people, except maybe one case of this one boss. But totally great people, and I felt like I was doing something worth while. And it was useful. Later on, it got to be where everybody was writing impact statements, which are not a product. It bothered me a little bit. Even I got involved. And those were kind of necessary. EPA at one time says, we need you to calculate the effect of this dose out to the year 10,000. I said, what? So I got out my business card. And I changed it from environmental engineer to science fiction writer. [LAUGHTER] But I had a great time. I tried to get in the army when I first graduated from high school. And I couldn't because of my ears. And the Navy wouldn't take me because of my eyes, the program for officers. So I ended up—third choice was out here to do my part. [LAUGHTER]</p>
<p>Bauman: Well, I want to thank you very much for coming in today, and sharing your stories with us, and your experiences. I appreciate it.</p>
<p>Soldat: I hope it's been useful.</p>
<p>Bauman: Yes. Thank you.</p>
<p>Soldat: Yeah, just carrying this around helped me remember.</p>
<p><span> </span></p>
</div>
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:53:44
Bit Rate/Frequency
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209 kbps
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
700 Area
2-East Area
329 Building
300 Area
200 Area
N Reactor
703 Building
716 Building
Reduction-Oxidation Plant (REDOX)
Plutonium Uranium Extraction Plant (PUREX)
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1948-2013
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1948-1995
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
McKee, Bob
Baker, Dave
Healy, Jack
Templeton, Bill
Harr, Dennis
Perkins, Dick
Andy Reisenhauer
Parker, Herb
Corley, Jack
Kathren, Ron
Bair, Bill
Denham, Dale
Muller, Dave
Selby, Jack
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Title
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Interview with Joe Soldat
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Joe Soldat conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
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Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date Modified
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2016-06-30: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Subject
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Richland (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Nuclear weapons plants--Health aspects--Washington (State)--Hanford Site Region
Date
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8/6/2013
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Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
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video/mp4
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The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
2-East Area
200 Area
300 Area
329 Building
700 Area
703 Building
716 Building
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
N Reactor
Pasco (Wash.)
Plutonium Uranium Extraction Plant (PUREX)
Reduction-Oxidation Plant (REDOX)
Richland (Wash.)
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F7f6d2722f96af5759ce34d284e17ceb3.jpg
2e6c63401f341726a5d00d80c6b894e0
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F35192d6fa7246bcbeafa4d77f812dca4.mp4
5118fbd730bbe880f6366cbc5584f62f
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Title
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Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
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Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Bob Smith
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span class="SpellingError SCX91453010">Smith_Bob</span></span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></strong></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">I'm going to start by just maybe having you state your name first.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: That's Robert Lee Smith. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> usually go by Bob.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">, and my name is Robert Bauman, and I'm conducting an oral history inte</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">rview with Bob Smith on July 16</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX91453010">th</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> of </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">2013, and the interview's being conducted on the campus of Washington State University</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> Tri-Cities. And I'll be</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">talking with Bob Smith about his experience working at the Hanford site. So I thought we'd start today by just</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">asking you to talk about how you came to Hanford, how that happened, when that was, and what brought you</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">here.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, it had to happen about 1951. My Kansas National Guard unit got called into federal service during the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Korean War, and we wound up at Fort Lewis. So one day, a friend and I were hitchhiking into Yakima, and this</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">car, Oldsmobile station wagon</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">looked like a brand new one</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">pulled up to give us a ride.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So we got to asking him questions about, well, gee, you must have a nice job to afford a car like this. Yeah, I've</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">got a pretty nice job, he says. Well, what do you do? He says, I'm a guard over at the Hanford Atomic Works. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">says, well, where's that? He said, oh, it's 80 miles down the road.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">We weren't bashful about asking questions, so we says, well, how much do you make? He says well I make $100</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">a week. $100 a week? Wow. I had just left Pittsburg, Kansas at a job at $30 a week as a clerk typist. So I thought</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">to myself, I want to check that place out.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So eventually I did. I wound up as a clerk</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> when they were building the K A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">reas, not making $100 a week, but I was</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">making $60 a week.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And did you have any idea of what Hanford was at the time?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">I had read a short article in the newspaper, I think, over at Fort Lewis, something about they had atomic energy</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">work going on here, and it was secret, and it got my imagination, my curiosity</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> up</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">. I thought, I'm going to have to</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">check that place out. So I eventually did.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And what were your first impressions of the place when you first arrived to work?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">I thought it was a real nice place. I got here </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">on June 8</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX91453010">th</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> in 1953. And the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> weather was nice and clear and</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">really nice. I saw the Rattlesnake Mountain off of the site, back over there, and I thought, man, that's really pretty.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">We didn't have any mountains like that back in Kansas.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So I was living at the dormitory, so I would run out in the morning and catch a bus, take me to the bus lot, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">then fro</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">m the bus lot I'd go out to 100-K A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">rea. So anyhow, I was very impressed with the area around here.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And so what was your first job? What sort of job were you doing?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">I</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">t was a clerk typist out of 100-K A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">rea, whe</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">n they were building the K-East and K-W</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">est Reactor. It was back in</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">1953.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And so which contractor?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">General Electric.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">General Electric.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Yeah, General Electric Company.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">, and you said you lived in a dormitory when you first came?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Yes, mm-hmm.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And where were those at the time?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">It was where Albertsons Grocery Store is now on Stevens</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Stevens</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> and the Lee Boulevard.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And it was an all-men dormitory?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, it had a W-21, which stood for Women's, but there were two dormitories in there that had men in them, but</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">they started with a W because eventually they thought they would be women's dorms. But they had more men</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">than women, I guess, so I wound up in W-21.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And how large was the dorm?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Just like any college dormitory, actually</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">two story, stairs on the outside you could</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> go</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> up, as well stairs inside--typical college-type dorm.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And how long did you live in the dorm then?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, I lived in the dorm until I got married in 1954. I got married in May of '54, so. While living there, they</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">eventually transferred me up to M-1 dormitory, which</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> is up close to Jadwin and Symons</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">, something like that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> Because—</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">for some reason, maybe they had sold their area to Albertsons. I don't know. But I eventually moved up</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">there. So I was there about a year.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay. </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And then after you got married, where did you move at that point?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, we got an apartment over in Kennewick, but we were only there for about week before our names came</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">through. We had put in for a house to rent in Richland, because it was still a government town at that time. And we</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> got a B </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">house at that time at 1413 McPherson. So being over this one bedroom basement apartment in</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Kennewick only lasted about a week, </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">so we moved into the Richland B </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">house.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And what were your impressions of Richland at the time? What sort of community was it?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">I thought it was real nice. It had the downtown section and also the uptown. The uptown section was fairly new at</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">that time. But I thought it was very good.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And you mentioned Richland was a government town. Do you remember any special community events--parades, any of those sorts of things during that period?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Not too many</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">being a government town, why, you did the job that you had to do. Well, they did have this music</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">group that had opera singers and plays that you could go to and take part in choruses, singing. So I did join the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Richland Light Opera Team for maybe one year and did a little singing there. But that was only for a few months,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">until I met my wife, and then I lost interest in singing.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And at some point, Richland I guess, gains independence, I guess, or whatever you want to say. Do you</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> r</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">emember anything about that period and that process at all?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Yeah, that was around 1957 when </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">that happened. And being in a B </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">house, which meant there was a family on</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">each side, the people that were there ahead of us had the opportunity to buy the house, but they didn't want to</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">buy it, so they asked us if we wanted to buy it. Well, didn't have enough money to buy anything, so we said, no.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So they went ahead and bought it, and we just stayed there. The rent for the General Electric time was $37.50 a</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">month, and we continued paying that for about a year, and then it went up to about $50 a month. But that</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">was still pretty reasonable at that time.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So you mentioned you star</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ted as a clerk typist in the K A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">rea, right? At some point you moved in to Health Physics.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Is that right?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">How did that happen, and when did that happen?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, by the time my year was up as a clerk typist, I had a chance to move into a job at a little bit of pay. The job</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">was called field assistant, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ut it was </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">half clerical typing job, and the other half of the day would be radiation</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">time-keeper following J</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">. </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">. Jones personnel</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> around, minor cons</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">truction, keeping time on them—</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">radiation time in</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">radiation zones to make sure that these construction workers didn't receive more than 300 MR in a seven-day</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">period.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Because </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">in those days, although we had d</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">osimeter pencils, they were not the self-reading kind where you could</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">just look up</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> at</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> the light. What they would do is at the end of the day, you would drop your badge and pencils in a</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> rack, in this case, 200 West A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">rea and then go home for the night.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, they had </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">what they called pencil girls</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> that would come out on swing shift, and they would collect these</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">badge and pencils, and they would read these pencils. They had a manometer upstairs above the guard house,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">and they would stick these pencil in the manometer. It would read how much radiation it had collected. Then</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">they'd put them back with the badge and put them back in the rack. So the next morning when you came, you'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">pick them up again.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> Well,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> my time as a radiation time-keeper was up to me to keep track with pencil and paper about how long they</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">could stay in the radiation zones, depending on how high the radiation dose was. As a radiation time-keeper, we'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">accompany radiation monitors</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">they called them Health Physics Technicians</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">everywhere the construction guys</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">went. And they would tell us the reading, and we would calculate how many minutes they could work in that zone.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And then when they would leave that zone and go to another one, then we'd calculate that. So we did that for the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> full eight</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> hours a day. Well, at least four hours a day. Half the day I might spend as a clerk typist writing up</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">construction schedules for the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">we had a General Electric engineer and also a J</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">. </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> Jones engineer. So they would</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">write up the schedules, and I would type them up for the first half of the day, and the second half of the day, I</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">would go keep time on the guys in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">radiation zones for about half a day.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So I did that from 1954 to 1959, and then I had a chance to transfer into radiation monitoring, which I did. And I</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">worked in that job from '59 until I retired in '93.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">nd so when you moved to radiation monitoring, what did that mean in terms of your sort of everyday</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">job? What sorts of different things would you be doing?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, we woul</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">d go with the operations personne</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">l, like operators or maintenance people, and accompany them on</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">jobs and find out how much radiation was in the area, and then go in there with them and stay with them, in a lot</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">of cases, as long as they were in the zone. And then sometimes we could set the job up if the radiation was not</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">going to increase or decrease, then we would leave the job.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">But oftentimes we would have to stay with them because they would move from one place to another. So we were</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">kind of following construction people and operations engineers</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">everybody that had to go in a radiation zone.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">We'd either go ahead of time and check the readings off and take smears</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">some floor smears and air samples</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">and that sort of thing</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">to make sure they were within the limits of a the Hanford project.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So you worked in various places throughout the site.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Yeah, I worked at</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">eventually over the period of time, I was in that job at all nine reactors at the Hanford project.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And also I worked th</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ree separations buildings, PUREX 200 East Area, D Plant in 200 East A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">rea, and also at the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> REDOX</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">. When I was a radiation time-keeper, partly I kept time on the construction people because they were</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">building a crane viewi</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ng room in the REDOX</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">, so I did work there also as part of my job as a time-keeper.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And I imagine, given the number of years that you worked there, that were a number of contractors that you</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">worked for over the years.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Yeah, General Electric left about 1965, so about that time I had a chan</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ce to transfer over to the 200 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">reas at an</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">outfit called Isochem had the contract. And they only did that for about a year or two, when they left and turned</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">their work over to Atlantic Richfield. And Atlantic Richfield did it eventually until Westinghouse eventually took over.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">In between those periods there, I also worked at Douglas Labs, which is out on North George Washington Way.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And I did the same type of work, except I also was taught how to irradiate TLD badges because TLDs took over</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">the place from film badges. So I would issue these badges for all workers for Douglas Labs, which was, at that</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">time, probably less</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> than</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> 100 people.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And I worked at that from about '73 until '76, when Exxon bought the building for Douglas Labs, and then I worked</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">for them for about another couple three years. So actually I was gone from the Hanford project for about five</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">years there, roughly</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">two and a half for Exxon, and two and a half for Douglas Labs.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay, okay. </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Now, at some point, the mission of the site changed from production to clean up. Did that impact your job in terms</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">of radiation monitoring in anyway, and if so, how so?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: Yeah, some things did, all right. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">bout 1987, all the re</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">actors were shut down except N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">eactor. And then they decided to shut</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">eactor down '87. But they still had a lot of fuel elem</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ents left in the basement at N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">eactor. Sometimes they</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">would shi</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">p those few elements over to K A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">reas for storage. But they needed to be processed to make plutonium.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Even though they were going to quit making plutonium, they should've dissolved these fuel elements and got rid of</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">them. Instead they just let them store in the K areas for several years. And that was too bad</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> because eventually K</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">reas had to get those </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">fuel elements out of there and send what's left of them ove</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">r to T Plant, what they call T P</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">lant</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">now, for storage of some of the stuff that's left.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So it</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> made a difference in the kind of radiation monitoring you did. You didn't have to go into operating reactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">buildings. Eventually, I transferred into what they call a D&D group, which was Decontamination and</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Decommissioning, which meant I went around to all of the old shut</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">down reactors with operators. Well, they were</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">called D&D workers at this time.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">We would go with them and make sure that there was no radiation around, take smears of the floor. About the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">only thing left in them would be radon, so we'd check for that. Sometimes we'd run onto a rattlesnake in these old</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">shut down buildings. And one that really surprised once</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">we went to 105 C R</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">eactor, and we saw this rattlesnake</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">curled up underneath an old maintenance room. And the operator said, darn, the last time I killed rattlesnake, the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">environmentalists </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">really got on to me. I says, okay. </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, it was on Friday afternoon, so I said</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">we had a radio, of course. So I said, I'll go out in the radio car and</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">radio the office and see what the supervisor wants to do. So I did, but the supervisor had left </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">early to go to</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> town,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">so the assistant was there. I say, what do you want us to do with this rattle</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">snake? We hadn't killed him yet. [LAUGHTER] A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">nd I</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">took a camera with me from the pickup. And he says, well, use your own judgment.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, our judgment is we're going to run into that thing again in a month from now, and I didn't want him to be</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">surprised and bite me. So I took a shovel in with me, and I handed it to the operator and says, do you want to kill</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">him, or do you want me to do it? He says, I'll do it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So he took the shovel and whacked the head off of this thing. So after a few minutes there we got ready to leave.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">He scooped up the head on a shovel and carried the tail with his hand</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">. And he went on outside to C Re</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">actor, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">he threw the tail over </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">the roadway out into the desert</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">. But the head, he laid down on the concrete there in front of</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> the entrance to C R</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">eactor.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">He says, let me dig a hole here to bury this head. We didn't want a coyote or something to eat that head and die</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">of rattlesnake poison. So while he was digging that hole, one of the other D&D operators, who had a safety-toed</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">boot on, took his boot and gradually moved it up towards that head, and this was after that thing had been killed</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> for about ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> or 15, 20 minutes.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And that snake, much to our surprise, his head came up about six inches off the ground, came down, and his</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">teeth had latched around fangs on that guy's boot and snagged the top of it for about an inch. And man, I'll tell</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">you, the three of us looked at each other and says, did you see what I saw? We had never seen that before or</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">heard of it. So that surprised us to no extent. So anyhow, that was one of the exciting jobs.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: That’s quite a story. </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">What a surprise. Yeah, wow. So I was going to ask you</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">you</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> were involved with a lot of radiation monitoring. So if</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">a worker was exposed too much, their pencil or whatever showed</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">what happened at that point then for the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">worker?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, we had a limit of 300 MR</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> per</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> seven-day period, and as a radiation time-keeper, when the worker reached that</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">point, why</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> we would go in and pull him out of the zone and tell him, that's it for the week</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">300 per week. Also, we</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">had a limit of 50 MR per day to start with. So whenever they reached 50 for that day, we would pull them out. The</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">next day they'd go in for another 50. But they would do that until they got 300 in a seven-day period.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">In reading the informat</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ion from an interview you did ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> years ago or so, it talked about that you had been involved</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">in creating a tube that was uses to pinpoint the area of contamination. Do you want to talk about that a little bit?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Yeah, we had what we called a P-11 probe, a Geiger counter. And what we did was</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> in a process of surveying our</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">people, this P-11 probe was about two, two and a half inches in diameter. I think I've </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">got a copy of it. Anyhow, I</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">would lay this piece of paper down on whatever was contaminated. If it was the bottom of a shoe, we would</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">survey that shoe and find the hottest spot on that shoe, and then we would mark it, a pencil mark around the P-11</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">probe.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So it was a round circle for the </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">hottest spot. And then I would—</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">in my days as field artillery in the army, I used to be</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">work on fire direction center. So we would be fire forward and fire backwards. I thought, well, maybe I could use</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">this P-11 probe like that. So I got the hot spot, and then I would move the P-11 probe down, and then I would</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">draw a circle around it</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">below it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And then I would go back and find the hot spot and move it to the right, and move it until the radiation went away.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Then I would draw a circle around that. Then I would take it up above and do the same thing there and off the left</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">hand</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">side. So when I got through, I had a spot in the center of it about the size of your thumbnail, and that would</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">tell us where the hotspot was on the bottom of the shoe or whatever you were decontaminating.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So that saved you some time in decontaminating. Like on the bottom of a shoe you'd use sandpaper or emery</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">cloth, something like that to clean it off, or masking tape or duct tape. So that kind of helped me anyhow</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">just</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">tools of the trade.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Right, and when did you develop that? What time frame would that have been?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Probably around 1970. At that time, I was going over to CBC. I used to be a</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">n</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">wards chairman for </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">the </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Health</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> Physics </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Society years ago, and my job was to contact the instructor for a nuclear technology class for the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">CBC and find out who we could give a scholarship to</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">$500 or something like that. So this guy called me up one</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">day. He says, Bob, we need to have somebody in your group to come over and give radiation monitoring classes</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">to our students because they were learning how to be operators in the reactor buildings or radiation technicians.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">I said, sure, I could do that. He had gotten</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> his experience from the Navy. H</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">e was a Health Physics technician, or</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">they called them something else in the Navy. And he says, we need somebody over here to help them out and</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">teach them. Could you do that, or could you find somebody? I says, yeah, I could probably do that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So I contacted my manager, and after six months or a year, they give me permission to go over there and do that</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">about once a month. So I would go teach you one or two hours in the morning and another one or two hours in</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">the afternoon. So that's what I thought about this thing here, which I had done out of work</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">finding little hotspots</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">and then bringing them down to a small area. So that's about the time that I was doing that, and so I passed it on</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">to the students so they would know, too.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So it was sort of the teaching the students that led you to sort of thinking about that and developing that process?</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Yeah, some of those students</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">in the summertime we would hire maybe five or six of them to come out </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">at N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">eactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">as interns for the summer</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> because we were shut down for about a month or so for all the repairs and</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">stuff. So we'd hire some of these students to come out and go </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">round with us and learn jobs. So</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> that</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> at the end of that</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">summer, if the company wanted to hire some of them, they could hire one or two or all six of them. So that kind of</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">worked out good for both of them.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And then they shut that teaching job down several years ago because the contractors at Hanford quit hiring</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">people because we were starting to shut down reactors and laying people off. So if there's no need for them, then</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">they quit teaching it. But then here, about two years ago, they started up that program again.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">I don't have anything to do with it. But they do teach them now three jobs, either a radiation operator type job or</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">health physics technician type job or as an instrument technician job. They can go three different ways, so that's a</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">good program at CBC right now. It's kind of like nuclear technology. It's a two-year program.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And about how long did you teach classes?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: About ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> years, from about 1970 until about 1980.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Mm-hm. </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And in reading about this, it sounded like you also were instrumental in developing a scholarship program at CBC?</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Yeah, I noticed th</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">at we always had white persons. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">here was never any blacks</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> and not even many Latinos either.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So one day I asked Larry, I said, how come we don't ever have any Afro-Americans in here? He says he didn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">know. So I went to the guy in charge of Afro-Americans over there hiring people, and he says he didn't know.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And I thought, well, probably the reason is they were just like I was when I was getting out of high school. I didn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">have any money to go to college. So I says, maybe we should start up</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">maybe the college could do something.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So I thought, well, we ought to have an auction.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> we had an auction there at CBC,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> and we had all the kids in the class bring thing</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">s to donate and put out to sell. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">nd we advertised it, sent information around to a bu</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">nch of companies. And I met</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> about seven or eight</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">companies to see if they wanted to donate equipment for it, which they did. But the day of auction came along,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">and I don't think we even had six people show up to buy anything. So, I says, well, we'll leave this equipment here,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">and CBC can have an auction some other time and maybe they'll collect more money, which they did.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">However, we had a guy that was pretty high up in the company for Westinghouse, and he was attending meetings</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">over there. And one day I went to the building over there, and I saw all these, three or four or five other</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">companies, not Westinghouse, that had plaques up on the wall that they donated $5,000 from one company,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">$10,000 for another company for scholarships. And so one day, we had a fellow that was pretty high up in</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Westinghouse stop by our building out there for a safety meeting one day. I says, we're going to have an auction,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">and it would be nice if Westinghouse could donate some money towards this thing and hire these minorities.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So he took that information into the vice preside</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">nt of Westinghouse, and they </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">okayed</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> And I says, it'd be nice if</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">we had four $1,000 scholarships to give to these kids. So they came up with that for that year. However, the next</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">year, they came up with $28,000 for scholarships. So that was</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">the guy who was in charge of all safety for</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Westinghouse at the time sent me a no</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">te and said this was coming off. S</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">o that made me feel pretty good that</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Westinghouse did do that because all these other companies had done something. But they followed through with</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">it, which was great.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So you worked at Hanford from the 1950s into '93. Is that what you said?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">With some years in between there when you weren't.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Right, from about</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">well, at Hanford from '53 until '93, but I was a radiation monitor from '59 until '93.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Did the technology change quite a bit in terms of radiation monitoring over those years, and if so, how did it</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">change?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, yeah, they got better instrumentation down at</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Battelle</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> did some of our reading of our badges and this sort</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">of thing. So their instrumentat</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ion got better as the years went along. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">nd the same with our Geiger counters. They</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> went</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> from the old style to ones with P-11 probe. Nowadays, I'm not sure they even have a P-11 probe. It might</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">be two long probes that they could use either one for beta</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> gamma and alpha. Before, we just had the P-11 probe</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">for Geiger counter, and for an alpha meter, we had the probe for alpha</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">two separate ones. So yeah, the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">instrumentation did change.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">I was also going to ask you during years</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">well, Hanford was obviously—emphasized</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> security, and I was wondering,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">especially when you started in the 1950s, what that was like in terms of security? Did you have to have special</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">clearance? When you went to the site, did you have to go through special security or anything along those lines?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Yeah, I did. When they originally told me, while I was still the Army, there would be several weeks for them to</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> check on my clearance, I thought, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">, several weeks. Well, as it got closer to discharge time, I thought, man,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">they haven't contacted me, so I better go down to Fort Lewis and check on civil service jobs. So I did, and I had</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">qu</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">alified for two jobs. One was</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> a warehouse</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">man</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> because I had worked six years in a grocery store, and the other</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">job was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> billing, clerk typist, in the transportation d</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">epartment.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So I stayed there from December of '52 </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">‘til June of '53. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ut I got so tired of driving the fog and the rain over there</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">around Fort Lewis and Seattle-Tacoma area that I just got sick of it. I had an old 1940 Ford. The heater didn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">work, and the defroster didn't work either. So I'd have to drive about half way out and scrape the ice off the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">outside and the inside.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And one day, I was cleaning out the back of it, and I saw all this mold in the backseat. I said, holy cow, the thing</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> didn't warm up enough to dry</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> that o</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ut. So finally I decided, well—</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">I was kind of disgusted with General Electric for</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">not notifying me. So although I didn't want to go back to Kansas because my mother and stepfather didn't get</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">along too good. They fought like cats and dogs, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> under no condition,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> no way did I want to live in the same house with them.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So put off of going back there. I could have gone back to Pittsburg, Kansas, where the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">y</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> had a four-year college</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">there. I could have lived at home, but I didn't want to stay there. So finally, I thought,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> well,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> I'm going to write General</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Electric a note. I didn't cuss them out or anything, but I wrote some wording on there that said, I thought you guys</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">were honest in your estimations of how long it was going to take for this, but it's been so long. You said several</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">weeks, and it's been several months.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So I put t</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">hat letter and mailed in my out</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">box at Fort Lewis, Washington. And when I got home that night, I found a</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">letter in the mailbox from the General Electric Company and it said, from Zane</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> Wood. H</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">e says, Bob, you've waited</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">long enough for a job. We're ready for you now, so you</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> can come on over. So I says, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">, I'll give my boss two</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">weeks</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">’ </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">notice and come on over, so I did. But I was</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">clearances took an awful long time in those days.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And when you started working, did you drive your car on site? Were you able to do that, or did you have to take a</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">bus, or how did that work?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">No, they had bus service around Richland that you could take buses down the sort of streets, and then you'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">catch</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">we were leaving at the B </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">house, so a bus would come by within about a block, so I'd catch my bus there,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">take it to the bus lot, and then we would</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> get on the bus that went to K A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">rea. And so I would get in there, pay a</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">nickel for a ride out and a nickel to ride back home, and this was 1953.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So I did that until I went into the radiation time-keeper job</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">, and we had buses to 200 West A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">rea then, all the areas,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">but you still just dropped a nickel in when you went in and a nickel when you came out. So I caught the buses</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">there also. So mainly buses</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">they didn't get rid of the buses until about a year after I retired.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">I know President Kennedy visi</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ted the site in 1963 for the N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">eactor dedication. I wondered if you were here at the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">time, and were you on the site that day?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Yeah, I was here at that time. I had two boys and a girl, so</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">and the wife. We loaded up in my station wagon and</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> drove out to N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ea</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ctor and was there for his talk. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">nd that was</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">I think there was about 40,000 people out there,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">too, so it took us an hour to get out of there with so many people. But </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">that was an interesting time. I also went to</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> Battelle</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> one time when President Nixon came out here </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">to dedicate something to Battelle</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">. So I was able to see</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">both presidents that way.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Do you have</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">were there ever any events that sort of stand out in your mind</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> period of time working there</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> or any</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">incidents of any kind or accidents or any sort of events that stand out in your mind from your years working at</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, one thing that kind of </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">surprised me—</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">about the time I was to retire i</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">n 1993, I used to go over to B R</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">eactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">whenever they would have out-of-the-</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">country people for a tour of B R</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">eactor. My manager at that time said that he</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">would like for me to be in on the tours because I used to work there when it was an operating reactor. So in case they ask him, well, what was is equipment used for or that one, I could tell them a little bit about it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So I went over there once with about five or six Russians, and they wanted to look at B, so they were looking</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">around there. So finally, one of them spoke up and said, well, since you're about to retire here in a few months,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">what's your lifetime radiation exposure? I say</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">s it's 66 rem. And he says, aha! M</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ine's 600.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">I</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> knew—I</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> figured they took a lot more radiation. I thought to myself, man, you must have been at Chernobyl or something.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">But they took a lot more than what we were all</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">owed here at Hanford. Our limit—</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">o</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">fficial—</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">was 5 rem per year, to not</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">include more than 3 R gamma. But they had a lot more over in Russia.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">What were some of the more challenging aspects of working at Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, sometimes as a radiation monitor, you were the only person that knew much about radiation and</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">contamination on a job, so it was up to us. We had a limit of 15-mile per hour speed limit on wind. So it was always</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">up to the monitor to decide whether or not to shut a job down or not. And I thought, man, that's a big</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">responsibility, because some these jobs are pretty important.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So I carried around a wind gauge underneath the seat of the pickup. And I thought, well, if necessary, I'll get that</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">wind gauge out. Because it got so I could take a look at sagebrush, a light piece a sagebrush. I would take the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">wind gauge out and watch when the wind blow to see when that sagebrush would roll. And I thought, well, that</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">thing's going to roll maybe 17 mile an hour, and the bigger piece of sagebrush would take a little more wind.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So I had this wind gauge out at one job, and the wind was 16 miles an hour, so I shut the job down. Well, that</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">went over like a l</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ead balloon with the rigging</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> supervisor. We were on a diversion box, BX tank farm. And he</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">says, I'm </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">going to call up your boss, Bob. S</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">o he did, and my boss came out.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">By then, the wind had stopped, but I hadn't said anything about you could go back to work. And he says, Bob, how</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">come you shut the job down? I says, well, it says on R</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">N</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">WP 15 miles an hour. Here's the wind gauge</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">16. He says,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">well, it doesn't look like it's blowing now. I says, well, it's not. As far I'm concerned, they can start working again, so</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">they did.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">But every once in a</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">while, you would be challenged. Once again I was challenged. I was working with the D&D</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">group. We were at 100 K burial ground. Sometimes the waste in the burial ground will either travel down deeper,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">or sometimes they could go up, or they can go to the left or to the right over a period of time.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> And we had a car—w</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">e had one monitor that would drive this SUV-type instrument around where it has radiation</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> detectors on the front bumper. And he would drive over to the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> tank farm. Whenever it would have a spot above the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">limits, like the limits on the tank farm are maybe 100 counts a minute above background. Well, whenever he hit</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">this limit, why, it would alarm.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So they notified our group that they needed to go in and lay some more dirt down, so they did. They were doing</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">this job, putting more dirt on top of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> other</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> dirt. And this engineer</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">they were running out of money for these truck</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">driver</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">s</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> to do that. And he says to my boss in radiation monitoring, he says</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">we have to radiation monitors</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">checking the tires of these </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">trucks that were coming and going. And says, why not check every truck coming in and</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">out, going in and out? Why not every other truck or maybe only two tires instead of all four?</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> And I said, no, we</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> can't do that. Because we had run into </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">exactly that same problem at N Area once. It wasn't me, i</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">t</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">was another radiation monitor. He had decided on zone that I'm going to start checking every other truck. Well,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">one of these trucks cam</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">e up with hot tires from the N A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">rea place, and he tracked contamination down the highway</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">a ways, and that's not good.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So I says, well, I'm not going to do that. So the engineer was so mad, he went up to my supervisor. And I guess</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">my supervisor took word over to the manager of radiation protec</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">tion for all of the 100 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">reas at that time. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">some</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">where there, my supervisor had told me tha</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">t, Bob, don't survey every tire, just s</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">urvey some of them. And I was</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">so mad at that, I said to myself, I can't do that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">We go through a certification program that you don't compromise the situation. So I was all set to go back to work,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">but I was going to check all four tires. And just before I left, my supervisor came back and said, our top manager</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">says, keep doing it the way you have</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">surveying all four tires, so we did. So once in a</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">while, you'd run out of</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">money on a job, why, upper management wants to change things, and you can</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">'t do that if you're—why, </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">I</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">had resisted that. I figured I might get laid off or fired or something, but it didn't come to that point, thank</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">goodness.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So then, what were some more rewarding aspects of your job and working at Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, one rewarding thing was the scholarships </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">that </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">the We</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">stinghouse came up with. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">nd the other rewarding job was</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">just you knew in your own mind whenever you were doing something right, and there was always a temptation to</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">take shortcuts, but a good monitor never did</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ecause we had friends did try that, and they got into trouble so.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">One time I got to note from two former operators I used to work with, and he said</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">I had</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> been long retired since</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">then, and they were</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> working</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> as ministers, and they sent me a note that said </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">they had appreciated my job as</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> radiation</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">monitoring, that I was different than some of the others. Some of them seemed to not try to get along with other</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">people, operators, and tried to be too rigid. And they thought that I had tried to do the right thing. So that made</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">me feel pretty good, that even though you sometimes wonder, I thought that I did a good enough job.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So overall, how would you describe or assess Hanford as a place to work?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">I think it's a real good place. There are times when some people think that Hanford is</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">because it's got the most</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">contamination the country, probably because we also made most of the weapons for Hanford, probably 65% or so</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">of all the source of the bomb</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">’s material. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">nd I thought that people were trying to do badmouth the plant here too</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">much.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">They also tried to badmouth Hanfo</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">rd DOE—</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">or AEC, they called it in those days. But I didn't see it that way,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">because they were always trying to follow rules and regulations, and I thought they did a good job, and I thought</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Hanford overall did a good job.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">My students now, some of them anyway, were born after the Cold War ended. So they have no memory of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Cold War. They don't know much about it. I guess especially for people who are that young that really have no</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">memory, what sorts of things would you like them to know about Hanford or working there?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, I think they need to know that, like I do, that I thought that Hanford did a good job of controlling radiation and</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">the spread of it, because that was my job was to be one of the monitors out there watching these things and</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">following the rules and regulations. So since I had a job in controlling it, I knew what was supposed to happen and</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">what did happen. So I got to</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> feel like most all the percentage of the time</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> Hanford did a pretty good job of it.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Is there anything I haven't asked you about that you'd like to talk about or any specific memories, things that you'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">like to talk about that you haven't talked about yet?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, yeah there's one of them that kind of bothered me a little bit. Back in 1966, we had a strike here at Hanford.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And being in </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">the radiation monitoring group—</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">that was a union job. So we went on strike for about six weeks.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">During that time, I worked as a kind of </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> electrician helper down in California. California could not get enough</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">electricians to work in their jobs. All their local people were busy, so they called around the country to get other</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">electricians.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, they wanted 20 from Han</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ford, but they could only get ten. So they says, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">, we'll take five instrument</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">technicians and five radiation monitors, since we all belong to the same union. However, those radiation monitors</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">have to have worked around electricians for at least a year, so they could help out as a helper.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So my union steer </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">called up one day and said, Bob, do you want to come by and drop your name in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">hat and see if it gets drawn out for five guys to go down to Californian? I says, sure, so I did. And luckily enough I</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">did, so I was down there for, well, it was a six-week strike.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">The first week we just stayed home. The next five weeks I worked dow</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">n there. Well, when I got back—</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">we would</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">get these bottles, urine bottles, because they wanted to bring everybody up to date. Well, I'd been gone for six</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">weeks, so I put my urine bottle out in front for the truck driver to pick up. Well, he picked it up</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">, but a couple, </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">three days later he came back again with some more of them.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">So I asked, well, how come I got some more urine bottle</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">s</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> here? He says, well</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">he shouldn't have told me this</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">bec</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ause he's just a truck driver—b</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ut he says, well, I've had to redeliver several extra bottles around to different</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">people</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ecause t</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">here was one guy over to 234-5 B</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">uilding, where they were making plutonium buttons, that had</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">gotten into an incident and gotten real contaminated. And they thi</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">nk that the bottles were washed—</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">for me to do my</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> sample in—</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">well, mine were washed in the same batch that his were, and they cross-contaminated to my bottles.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">But that's just a rumor, t</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">hey don't know for sure.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, I did get notified by my manage</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">r at that time that I was giving</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> an extra 5 rem of radiation because of those</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">urine bottles. </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">And I called him up and I says—</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">B</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ill</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> Mc</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Murray was my manager. I says, Bill, I wasn't even here at that</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">time. How can I get t</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">hat? He says, well, Bob, Battelle</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> had done a lot of updating of their equipment, so maybe</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">they got more sensitive equipment now than th</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ey did six weeks ago. I said, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">, Bill, whatever.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">But anyhow, they put that on my record, and it's been there ever since. They wouldn't take it off. So that kind of</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">miffed me a little bit. That's one of the things you learn to put up with.</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: All right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Anything else that you'd like to share, any other stories or memories?</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: Well, let's see. N</span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">ot offhand. Things went pretty smooth, as far as I was concerned.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, I want to thank you for coming in today and sharing your stories and your experiences. I appreciate it.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Smith</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Well, you're welcome, my pleasure.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX91453010"><span class="TextRun SCX91453010"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX91453010">Thanks.</span><span class="EOP SCX91453010"> </span></p>
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Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:52:37
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
224 kbps
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
K Area
100-K Area
200 West Area
PUREX 200 East Area
D Plant
200 Area
N Area
100 Area
K-West Reactor
N Reactor
105 C Reactor
C Reactor
B Reactor
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1953-2013
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1953-1993
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Bob Smith
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Bob Smith conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
7/16/2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-06-24: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Nuclear weapons plants--Health aspects--Washington (State)--Hanford Site Region
Nuclear instruments & methods
100 Area
100-K Area
105 C Reactor
200 Area
200 West Area
B Reactor
C Reactor
D Plant
Hanford (Wash.)
K Area
K-West Reactor
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
N Area
N Reactor
PUREX 200 East Area
Richland (Wash.)
-
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https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F9ebfcd597b679760a742fd7933925b23.mp4
ed164cfe7bd11e113062417f98a3f61a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Jack McElroy
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX152878036">
<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span class="SpellingError SCX152878036">McElroy_Jack</span></span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></strong></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">All right. We'll go ahead and started then.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Jack McElroy</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> We could maybe start by having you say your name</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">and spell it for us.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah. My name is a Jack McElroy. It's J-A-C-K M-C-E-L-R-O-Y.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Great. Thank you. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">nd today's date is October 22</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX152878036">nd</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> of</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> 2013. And we're conducting this interview on the campus of</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Washington State University Tri-Cities. So let's start if we could by having you talk about when you came to work</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">at Hanford initially, what brought you here.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Right. I was born at Grand Coulee Dam when my folks came out here from North Carolina and grew up in</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Spokane. And they came out here to work on the dam. After it was completed, we moved Spokane. I grew up</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So at Lewis and Clark High School I took all their math and science classes. And in my senior year,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Hanford started an engineering technician development program. And I was hired directly from high school by</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">General Electric. And I came here in the summer of 1955 and started working.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I was at the large central store's administration building next to the bus lot for a couple months while they obtained</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">our Q clearances. And the program also involved sending us to classes. So during that time, we also started going</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">to classes. So I basically came here in 1955 at the age of 18 directly out of high school.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">How many students were there? How many--</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">There was about 20 of us that they recruited. There were several of us from Spokane. In fact, we formed a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">carpool and would go back to Spokane almost every weekend using the ferry that was here </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">at North Richland,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">went over to South Landing on the Pasco side. And that was the quickest way to get back and forth.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And so how long did you do that then?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I did that for a year and a half. And I had some great rotations. And at th</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">e same time that I signed on down</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> here, I</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">joined the Air National Guard out in Spokane.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And I was interested in flying. So in 1957, I actually left here to go into the pilot training program. But I probably</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ought to back up to my experiences here.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I want to ask you about, you said a dif</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ferent rotation. What sort of</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">--</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah. My first assignment was</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> radiation monitoring in a 325 B</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">uilding, where I was basically a technician</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">supporting chemists and also other radiation monitors. I learned a lot about the radiation and monitoring and so</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> on, which was limited </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">to the radio c</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">hemistry labs there in the 325 B</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">uilding. My second assignment took me</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">out to the 1</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">00 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">reas, where I worked for Larry McEwen </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">and the heat transfer group.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And I was assigned to his group in the hydraulics lab that was at the 1</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">00-D and D A</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">rea. And I brought in a picture</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> and ga</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ve that to you of me working there in the lab. I met some really great chemical engineers there including a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> guy that would have an e</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ffect in my life later on </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">by the name of John Batch</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> who was a PhD from Purdue.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And they had quite an influence on my future as it turned out. My next assignment, I went to radiation monitoring</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> again with Herm Pass </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">in the 100 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">reas. And he was stationed</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">the</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">y had an office at the 100-D, D A</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">rea</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">also.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And while I was on</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> that</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> assignment, I was very fort</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">unate to be involved in the 105-</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">B outage. And during that outage,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">we supported th</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">e changing out of the old curli</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">cue pig tails. They basically looked like the real pig tail</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">, and t</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">hat's how they got their name. The</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">y were formed just like a curli</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">cue. And they were on the front face of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">r</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">eactors. And in 1956, on the B R</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">eactor, they changed those out and put in stainless steel, flexible hoses and</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">pipes.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And so I was there at the reactor at that time supporting that operation.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">How long did that take?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Oh, it was just a month or so to actually do that. And that was actually my last assignment. And I did pretty good</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">and actually achieved radiation monitor status before I left and went into the Air Force in early 1957.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Of those different assignments, did you have one that you enjoyed the most?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I think t</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">he radiation monitoring at 100 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">reas. I got to go out to all the different reactors. I was able to go the rear</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">face on occasion. I mean, the rear face is a really hot, hot area.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So you had to stay out to the side. But at least I was able to see the rear faces on the reactors and the front faces</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">on several reactors. And so that was a very exciting assignment. But it was the hydraulics lab and heat transfer</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">unit that probably had the biggest impact on me later on when I decided to go to college after I was in the Air</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Force.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And so what sort of work did you do in the hydraulics lab?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Basically took measurements of fluid flow. And then I did an awful lot of graphing for the engineers and realized at</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">that time that, geez, if I had a degree, I could be having somebody else do the graphs for me. So it was very</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">interesting.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And you said that you and a group of you </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">would drive to Spokane often,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> ba</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">sically </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">on weekends. Where did</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">you stay? </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">when</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> you--</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">When we came here, they put us up in the Sanfor</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">d Hotel, which was on Swift Boulevard</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">. It's since been removed. But it</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">was an old army barracks type of place and had simple bunk beds and so on in it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">But in 1955, the government started turning the city over to the community</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> basically. And things like prefab</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">became available for renting. And so on a group of four of us actually applied for a prefab and ended up in a one</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">bedroom prefab at 1213 Potter Street. And it was a little bit crowded, but we had a ball.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And what was the community of Richland like at the time, 1955, </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">'56</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: It s</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">till had a mess hall. You could go to the mess hall there downtown just across from where the post office is at</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">now and have a large buffet dinner and eat there. As I said, we stayed in the little hotel, barracks type hotel.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> Uptown T</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">heater was there. It was pretty normal, small community.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And so you were here for a year and a half or so.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And then if you can talk about what you did and what brought you back to Hanford.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah. Well, I left to go in the military. And I actually became a pilot and an officer and came back to the</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Washington </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Air </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">National Guard up at Geiger Field and basically, at that time, decided, well, this is a great opportunity</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">for me to go back to school. So I went to Gonzaga University while I was flying with the Guard and Air Force.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And I received a Bachelor of Science in chemical engineering. And GE hired me immediately to bring me back</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">down here. So I was back down here in July of 1963. So I was gone for about six years.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Were you hoping to get back to Hanford at some point? Or was that--</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">You know, I didn't know. I really didn't know </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">what life had in store for me, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ut it just kept changing and</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">progressing. And I was certainly glad to get back down here once I had the opportunity.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So when you came back in 1963, then what sort of work were you doing? What areas were you working in?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: I kind of stumbled, or fate </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">or something steered me into waste management and the group that was pioneering</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">the development of waste treatment technology for handling radioactive waste. And they were just based, had a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">lot of their people, in a 321 B</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">uilding, which was a building that had a lot of history. Other people may have</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">mentioned it, but it had a lot of history for developing separations technology for the site.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And at the time I was there, it was actually being used to develop which treatment technology. And so I got in with</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">that group. And I spent three or four months with them learning about vitrification and also something called</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">calcining, where you take liquid waste and heat it up, and drive off a lot of the volatile materials and turn it into a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">powder. And then from that, we would melt it, vitrify it, </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">make</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> glasses.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So that was my first assignment. Second a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ssignment, I went out to 100-N A</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">rea and had a great assignment there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I was a process engineer. And I was actually out there at the site when President Kennedy came in 19</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">was 1963, prior to the assassination of course</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">and saw him </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">speak. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> that was a great event. And N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">eactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">was a great reactor. It's unfortunate that we had to shut it down the way we did.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Do you have any specific memories from the day that President Kennedy was here?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Not really, no. I definitely remember being out there and seeing him, and hearing him talk, and the helicopters,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">pretty routine stuff. Yeah. I had one other rotation at PRTR, Plutonium Recycle Test Reactor, where I worked </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">on </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">the containment system for them.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">But in 1964, it was announced that they were going to shut down all the reactors. And so I decided it was time for</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">me to pick a permanent assignment. And so I went back to the waste management group.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I don't know if </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I mentioned their names, but Al</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> Platt </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">and </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Carl Cooley were heading up that</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">organization. And they were real pioneers for developing waste treatment technology and working with other</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">international people like in England and France at that time. So I got in with that group and had a lot of great</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">opportunities with them.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">You mentioned as early as '63 they were already starting to work on vitrification sort of technologies?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">What other sorts of technologies and waste treatment were being researched or worked on?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">At that time, it was primarily calcination and vitrification and looking at three different products, either a calcine</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">powdery dry product for final storage or either phosphate glass or borosilicate glass. And also there was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">phosphate ceramic at the time. So it really hadn't been decided what was going to be the choice for the US, what</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> direction we</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> were going to go with the treatment technology.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And in the program I was in starting a '65, we actually demonstrated with r</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">adioactive material in the 324 B</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">uilding</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">several different technologies with all these different products. And from that, we chose to go with borosilicate</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">glass, which is the current standard for product form for high level radioactive waste.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And what led you to that</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> sort of</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> solution?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">The processes that we demonstrated, basically that seemed to be one of the best. We actually made it with in-can</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">melting, a spray calciner, and in-can melter. I brought in another photograph of that showing all this equipment in</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">the cell with the spray cal</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ciner setting over </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">an in-can melter. And basically the product from that, the</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">borosilicate glass, turned out to be the best product in terms of its durability. And also the process, in-can melting,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">was a pretty straightforward simple process to--</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Can you explain that a little</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> bit</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">, just a little detail?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah. Basically we sprayed liquid waste into the spray calciner, which is heated to about 700 degrees centigrade.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And as the droplets came down, they dried. And it would be hot enough to where you'd get rid of all the nitrates</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">and convert it to oxides.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And the oxides would then fall down into the melter. We had a couple different </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span class="SpellingError SCX152878036">melters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> at the time. We were</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ac</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">tually looking at a continuous </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">melter, that was made out of platinum and far too expensive, and the in-can</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">melter, which is made out of Inconel. And we would add additives, boron and silica, to the calcine, and then heat</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">them up to over 1,000 degrees centigrade in either the melter or the in-can melter and convert to the glass.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So about what time period was this conclusion made to go with vitrification?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">The program was from '65 to '71. And so it was around 1970 that we basically decided that the borosilicate glass</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">was the preferred route. And then things changed. And they actually didn't support doing </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">any waste </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">work for</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">about a year and started it backup in 1972.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And in 1972, I was recruited to be the manager for the development of the vitrification program. I was recruited by</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Al Platt, who I mentioned earlier and John </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Batch, </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">who was one of the PhD chemical engineers out</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">at the 100-D R</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">eactor at the time I was there as a technician. So it kind of came back around again with one of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">people that I word for earlier. So they recruited me to head up the program to further develop technology for using</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> in the United States, </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">for vitrifying high level waste.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So were you actually able to begin the process of [INAUDIBLE]?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">In '72, we started building the program with the focus on the spray calciner and in-can melter, which was the</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">choice from that earlier program</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> and also decided it was time to look at something that would handle large</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">quantities</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> of waste</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">, such as what they have here at Hanford. Because when you just melt in a can, you're pretty well limited</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">in terms of size and processing rate. So in 1972, I hired an engineer, actually Battelle hired him.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Hanford Labs under General Electric became the Pacific Northwest Laboratories under Battelle. And so in 1972, I</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">was then working for Battelle. And at that time, we started developing and hiring engineers.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And so one of the engineers was Chris Chapman out of Kansas. He was a mechanical engineer. And we put</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">him in charge of developing a new melter technology, a Joule-heated ceramic melter.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> to</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> jump further </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ahead,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">the </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Joule-heater ceramic melter now is the heart of the waste treatment plant. There's</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">two of them in the low activity waste facility and two in the high level waste facility. But anyway, we started</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">developing that technology in early '70s. And by 1975, we had </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">a prototype working in the 324 B</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">uilding of a liquid</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">-fed </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Joule-heated ceramic melter. And I brought in a picture of that also to share with you.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So that's almost 40 years ago now that you really started developing some of that technology.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Right. If you </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">add that up, that's probably</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> 41 years. So it's over 40 years.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah, time flies. Anyway, that technology</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">1977</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">we were developing most of this technology actually for the</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">commercial nuclear fuel cycle with the expectation that the United States would develop reprocessing and have a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">complete fuel cycle here. In 1977, President Carter put a moratorium on reprocessing and that just threw</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">everything into turmoil.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And fortunately, there was a gentleman by the name of Frank </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span class="SpellingError SCX152878036">Baranowski</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> that was running the Department of</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Energy Defense Waste sites. And he chose to pick up the technology. And so we then turned all of our efforts</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">from the commercial fuel cycle to supporting the Defense Waste facilities.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So we spent several years working with DuPont to transfer the know-how for the spray calciner and in-can melter</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">, as well as the Joule-heated</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> melter for use down at Savannah River. And they ini</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">tially started out choosing the </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">spray calciner and in-can melter. But after they figured that there was a huge cost savings by eliminating the tall</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">calciner in terms of canyon height for hot cells and processing cells, they decided to go with the Joule-heated</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">melter.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So we worked with DuPont and helped them get that technology in place in the Defense Waste Processing facility</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">at Savannah River. And it's been very successful. It's been running for about 20 years.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So you came initially in 1955--</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: --and the focus at Hanford was </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">production</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">nd came back in the '60s. It was just about to shift to definitely reduced</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> production, right, and then--</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I guess if you look back at that, you've seen a lot of the changes in mission, changes in technology.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">In thinking back to the years you worked</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> at Hanford and the changes</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> what--</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I mean, obviously impacted your work</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">in terms of what you were focusing on. But the changes in technology must've impacted your work as well.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah. I still do a little consulting. It turned out to be a hot area,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> waste management. So I'm still involved in it on a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">small part-time basis. I've retired two or three times. And I actually ran a small company for Battelle</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> out there</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> called</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span class="SpellingError SCX152878036">Geosafe</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">We actually went out and we developed another technology called in-situ vitrification, where we literally </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">clean up</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">sites by putting electrodes in the ground and melting the earth and the soil. And we brought that along and made</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">it to where it was capable of actually using the same method to melt in a large container. And so for a while here,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Hanford was looking at that technology, it was called bulk vitrification, as a way of</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> supplementing the current </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span class="SpellingError SCX152878036">V</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span class="SpellingError SCX152878036">it</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">P</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">lant. And it's possible that that technology might still have a use here at Hanford.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Mm-hm. </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So you came back and '63. And then how long did you stay working at [INAUDIBLE]?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I worked for 30 years as an engineer and retired in '95 from Battelle. But I retired to run a small company for</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Battelle, the </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span class="SpellingError SCX152878036">Geosafe</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">company</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">In looking back at the various things you've worked on, was there a part of your work, an aspect of the work that</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">you found most challenging or part of it that you found the most rewarding?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Probably the most challenging and rewarding was trying to make thin</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">gs work in a hot cell. The 324 B</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">uilding</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">which is still there and may be there for a while, because there's contamination under the cell where we were</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">doing the processing. Making things work, making them reliable, and getting week-long tests completed without</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">major interruptions that was very challenging and very rewarding.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And it could be done. Sometimes the only way to solve the problem was to put it in a hot cell and make it work.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">You could spend a lon</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">g time outside playing around, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ut you really didn't know what the issues and problems</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">were until you put in it in there and tried to do it.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And then also during your years at Hanford, were there any incidents that stand out or problems or events that</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">happened that stand out in your mind above some of the others?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: Hmm. </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Not reall</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">y. I mean, some little events, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ut probably wouldn't want to put them on tape.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> I would have to say that I</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">am so amazed at the Manhattan Project and what they did so quickly and successfully.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And even when I came here in '55 and then on in the '60s, we were able to do things pretty quickly. I mean, we</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">could build it, put it in, </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">test</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> it. And somewhere '70s, '80s, things started to get too bogged down in paperwork and</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">overly cautious. The safety culture was always there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> But some</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">how or another the safety culture got to where it really slowed things down. And it's unfortunate. It just</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">takes too long now to get things done.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Is there any specific examples of concerns about safety or security that sort of thing that you can think of?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Just th</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">e requirements for dotting the i's and crossing the t</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">'s and undergoing inspections and being afraid. I mean,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I mentioned that sometimes the best way to get something done was to put it in there and make it work. Now, you</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">can't put it in there until you're positive it's going to work. The </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span class="SpellingError SCX152878036">Vit</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> plant's a great example of that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And they have a truly big concern associated with these Pulse Jet Mixer tanks in the black cells, where they're</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">going to be in there for 40 years. And I mean, that's a legitimate concern. But the fact is I believe that 90% of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">waste could be processed without that concern. And then we're holding up the whole plant because of this other</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">10% of the waste. And that's frustrating.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Looking back on your time working at Hanford, how </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">would </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">you a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ssess, overall, your experiences working at </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I had a great, great career, great experiences. A lot of memories, a lot of good memories, a lot of great people.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And I raised my family here, too, my wife Carol, and daughter Toni and Jill. They're Bombers. It was Col High,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Columbia High</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> at t</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">he time that they went to high school there. Now, it's Richland High School. And they had a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">great, great life and experience here also.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I wonder if you could talk about the relationship between Hanford the workplace and then the community. How</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">would you describe that relationship as y</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ou were living here in the '60s and</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> '70s?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I don't know, just business as usual. I don't set it apart from any of the other businesses around the area in terms</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">of being different or unique. So just business as usual to me.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I wonder</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> is there anything I haven't asked you about yet related to your work experience at Hanford or something</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">that you'd like to share or talk about that you hav</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">en't had a chance to talk about </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">yet?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I don't think so.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I wanted to make sure.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">There's probably something I'll think about later.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Yeah. [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">That happens.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah, of course, right.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman:</span> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Well, I want to thank you for coming in today. This is a really interesting</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">as someone who came like you said as</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">just out of high school</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> really.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> I think that is kind of a fortuitous event</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> to come directly out of high school as something like this and to be a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">part of history. It basically impacted my life and my future decisions of where I was going to go and what I was</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">going to do</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> very positively.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And then you came back in a very different capacity in many ways.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Well, thank you again for coming in.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">. Thank you.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: I appreciate your coming and</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> talking to us.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:28:00
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
198kbps
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
325 Building
100 Area
100-D Reactor
D Area
100-N Area
N Reactor
B Reactor
Plutonium Recycle Test Reactor
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1955-1957
1963-2013
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1955-1957
1963-1993
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
McEwen, Larry
Batch, John
Pass, Herm
Platt, Al
Cooley, Carl
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Chapman, Chris
Baranowski, Frank
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Jack McElroy
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Jack McElroy conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
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Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date Modified
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2016-06-15: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
10/22/2013
Rights
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Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Hanford Waste Vitrification Plant (Wash.)
Nuclear weapons plants--Health aspects--Washington (State)--Hanford Site Region
100 Area
100-D Reactor
100-N Area
324 Building
325 Building
B Reactor
D Area
Hanford (Wash.)
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
N Reactor
Pasco (Wash.)
Plutonium Recycle Test Reactor (PRTR)
Richland (Wash.)
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fd35964aec193b1b7fd28948c24cf64e1.jpg
ffbf5469442b4c402cf5a627b074bd5d
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fd33967aae97ba9a6a5cefd32188558af.mp4
492460847de1bc4edcc96e8b10af6349
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Sally Slate
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX184015053">
<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">Robert Bau</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">man</span>: S</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">ay your name and spell your last name for us?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Sally Slate</span>: Okay. Sally Slate. S-L-A-T-E.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay. My name’s Robert Bauman and today’s date is August 5</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX184015053">th</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> of 2015. We’re conducting this interview at Sally Slate’s home in Richland, Washington. So let’s—if we could, start by having you give us some background information on when</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> you came to the Tri-Cities</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">, what brought you here?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Well, I was a new graduate from the University of Idaho in June of 1955. I guess I was attracted to this area because I was going with a young man that still had a couple of years of schooling, and I wanted to be kind of close to the Univers</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">ity of Idaho for him.</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> Unfortunately, we broke up. [LAUGHTER] But I came as a tech grad for GE. These were three-month assignments where we rotated different assignments. My first assignment was to open up the chemistry lab at PUREX building that was still under construction. </span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And were you familiar with Hanford before you came here? Did you know much about the place?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Yes, I was, because we have an atomic energy site near southern Idaho, and my father was working there. So I was quite well-informed. In fact, I’d taken some classes in nuclear energy. </span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">B</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">a</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">uman</span>: And had you been to Richland or the Tri-Cities before?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: No.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And did you have a first impression when you arrived?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Well, everybody had told me that I was going to hate it, that it was d</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">esolate, sagebrush. I came here and</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> I thought, gee, I’m at home! Snake River’s just around the corner. And [LAUGHTER] sagebrush, I’m well-acquainted with. Potato fields? Yes. And also, I felt very comfortable.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: So you said your first job was opening up the chem lab at PUREX.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Can you describe what that was like? What that work was like?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: It was doing a lot of dish-washing. Because everything had to be taken out of the boxes, we had to figure out where to put it in the lab, we had to get the equipment set up and tested. There were two</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> or three of us doing that job.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And can you maybe explain what PUREX </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">was, for [INAUDIBLE]?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: PUREX i</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">s the separatio</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">ns plant that was—the fuel</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> went in on one end of the building and made a continuous run and we got the p</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">lutonium and uranium separated at the end. The REDOX Plant, you had to do it in batches. But this was a continuous process, so it was going to be a little more efficient. As I say, it had not been—they were still under construction at the time that I was out there. And unfortunately, when we got here, nobody had Q clearances, and they thought that we needed Q clearances. So they set us in the unclassified library until they finally figured out that, oh, our clearances are all sitting on somebody’s desk and he’s on vacation, and you don’t need a Q clearance anyways, so put them to work! [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: So that was your first job. Where did you go from there?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Oh. The next job was at the REDOX Plant. It was not really a happy experience. I wanted to be in the lab. As a woman chemist, I don’t think they appreciated women chemists in the lab at that time. It was trying to put together a compilation of all of the procedures that were being done, and trying to classify them so that if we got some kind of an assignment, you had to—okay, we need this analysis done. What procedures do we have available to do it? And it was well before the capabilities of our computer systems and everything now. I just didn’t appreciate that assignment. Then I went into the classified library as an abstractor. Where I had to read all of the classified—we were one of four—reading classified materials that came in. Everything from books to reports and anything generated that came into the library. We had to write a small paragraph about what the—without saying anything classified. We did bibliographies, computer searches. Except it wasn’t a computer search, it was a search of the index cards and made up answered questions that would come in. That was an interesting job. But it wasn’t as fun as being in the lab.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And how long did you work there in the classified library?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Well, that was pretty much—well</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> that was a permanent position.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: I worked there until I had been married and was expecting a child. And then they required me to quit.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay. So you talked about being a woman chemist and </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">it didn’t seem like you were really welcome in the lab, or that they wanted—were there other women chemists around at the time?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: There were a few. There was a couple of others. Actually—let’s see. I’m thinking as the abstractors, the other chemist who was an abstractor was a mathematician. And the other woman was a mathematician. They were drawing the abstractors from the scientific fields, because you could teach somebody to be an abstractor, but you couldn’t teach the scientific part of it as easily.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Right. So was it a GE policy that when you were married and—</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: --y</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">ou had to quit?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Yes. Five months, period.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, you had five months after you—</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: After you got pregnant.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: After you got pregnant, that you could work and then you had to quit.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: That was routine. When I got to working in Idaho for Argonne National Lab, they said I could I work as long as I wanted. As long as I could do the job. Phi</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">l</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">lips Petroleum says, we think you’re pregnant. Prove it that you’re</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> not. Otherwise, you’re gone. There’s d</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">efinite bias there.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: They didn’t want us riding the bus.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: And I was riding a bus 75 miles each way. Twice a day.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Do you know when that policy changed?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: I don’t. Because my next experience out here was in the ‘70s. And by that time, the policy had changed.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Sometime in between there.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Sometime in between.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Yeah, it changed. So let’s talk about transportation. You said you had to ride a bus out?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Pretty much every</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">day?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Here in Richland, we had the buses. They would pick up at specified places along the—in town. Or you could drive your car out to the big bus lot, and leave your car there and transfer to the bus that you were going to be going out into the Area on.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay. And where was the lot at?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Oh, go out Stevens, on the left-hand side as you go out Stevens.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: They’ve transformed it into—part of it was an area where the police are doing training. After they had just redone the parking lot and spent millions doing the parking </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">lot, then they decided, oh</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">, we’ll close the buses down. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: I wanted to ask you about housing when you arrived in Richland. What sort of housing was available, or wasn’t available?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">Sla</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">te</span>: Well, when you first come, </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">you check into the Desert Inn, which was the only hotel in town. </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">Then you check with the Housing Authority, and the housing office assigns you housing according to your job, and your status—your marital status. And being single, I was assigned to one of the dormitories. And we still see the dormitories around. W-5 was just off of Lee—Lee and Knight. It was definitely a dormitory. It had a house mother. Doors were closed on the weekdays at 10:00 at night. The doors were locked. It was later than that for the weekends. But you had a little room, furnished. If you took the furniture out and put your own furniture in, you couldn’t get their furniture back if you changed your mind. It was cheap.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Do you remember how much it cost?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: I don’t. But something--$20 a month or less.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And so how long did you stay in the dorm then?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: I stayed in the dorm until—well, I went into a private apartment with a friend. And then we got married and went into a two-bedroom prefab down here.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, okay, sure.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: In the south end of town. When those houses went up for sale, we could have bought that house for $1,875. [LAUGHTER] Yeah. We thought it was too small for us, because by then we had two small children. We bought a pre-cut. Three-bedroom pre-cut from a friend. They didn’t want the house, but if they had just moved into the house that they were going to buy, they would have had to remove all of the improvements that they’d put into the house, which included the wall-to-wall carpeting, drapes, electrical for a dryer, a fenced-in backyard. All of that would have had to have been removed. And they would have lost all of that investment. So they bought the house and sold it immediately to us at a slightly higher price to accommodate for their investments.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: How would you describe Richland in the ‘50s? I know it was a government town, still, when you—</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: It was government town, yeah. Everything. The schools were—GE ran it all for the government. Police department, schools—just about all of the—anything that had to do with the town.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And did that change significantly when it </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">sort</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> of became its own city, then?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: It was very gradual. They</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> started selling the houses—</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">we became a town in October of </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">’</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">5</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">7? ’57. And th</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">e houses were being sold in ’58. E</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">arly ’58, we bought our house on Smith.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: I know one of the events from the community happenings or things was when President Kennedy came to visit in 1963. Were you here then?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: ’63</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> we were not.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, had you—</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: We had left. Took a while to wander around to Idaho and Washington, but kept coming closer and closer, and finally said, we got to go home.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: You talked about having to get a—well,</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> you thought you had to get</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> your Q clearance, then didn’t have to get a Q clearance. What was security like at Hanford at the time? Would that impact your work—I mean you were </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">working in classified libraries, so that part--</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Yeah. You could get into—up to the 300 Area. But there was a barrier there. You couldn’t go through the bar</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">rier without a clearance. You </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">had to have at least a Q clearance—or </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">not a Q clearance, a N</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">il clearance is what they called it, was the beginning clearance. But then to get into the 200 Area, and to get into Two West, you had to have a Q clearance. That was just—you had a badge and it had your type of clearance on it. If you were working around the areas where there was a lot of radiation or po</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">tential radiation, then you’d wear</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> pencils, and you might wear a ring. The ring would be checked weekly, and if it showed anything, then they would check your badge. Badges were changed ou</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">t, I think, on a monthly basis.</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> I never was in a situation where I accumulated anything. You had hand and shoe counters that you had to check into the building</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> and check out of the building—</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">using the hand and shoe counters to make sure you weren’t carrying anything there. Because those would be the two areas that would be most apt to pick up something. </span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: So where was the classified library located?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: In the 300 Area. The building is still there. I don’t remember the building number. It was across from 319.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And you mentioned—so you got married in—</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: In March of ’56.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay, and did your husband also work at Hanford then?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And what area did he work in?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: He was at Three West Area. The REDOX area.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: We happened to be riding the same bus together.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Is that how you met?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">Sla</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">te</span>: Actually, we met at the Mart</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> cafeteria. That building on Lee and Knight that has Sirs and Hers Barbershop and had a gun shop in there. But at that time it was a 24-hour cafeteria. There was a drugstore in part of it. And there was a jewelry store up front and a little lounge area, the Evergreen Lounge, in the back. We’d just—I’d just gotten off of my first day of swing shift.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: And he had just gotten off work. We were in there having coffee. The girl I was with knew him, and knew the other fellow that he was with. But then I discovered that we rode the same bus. Or, rather, I made sure we rode the same bus. [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">So how was Hanford as a place to work, then? I know you talked about not really being able to work as a chemist [INAUDIBLE]</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Well, I don’t think it was any different than working anywhere else at that time. Because there were restrictions everywhere. My origi</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">nal plan when going to college—</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">I wanted to be a veterinarian. And after one year of pre-vet being the only girl in the School of Agriculture, I was told there was no way in hell that a woman would be accepted into the School—</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: --of Veterinary Science. And that I needed to choose something else. So, I went into chemistry, which is another love that I had. I was one of two women—first two that had graduated in chemistry in five years from the University of Idaho. And now, you know what percentage of women are. Far more women than men. And the same veterinary school now.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">[PHONE CHIMES]</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Sorry about that. Talking about Richland, I was going to ask you one other question about the town. In terms of entertainment or things to do for fun, what was there in the area in 1955, ’56?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Well, pretty much the same things that we have now. </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">The </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">Richland Players was a movie house at that time. The roller skating rink was there. We could ride horses—we could rent horses out on Van Giesen. Boating. Pretty much the same mix of things that we have now. At that time, we had the symphony, we had Richland Players, although they were having their plays in the schools at that time. But those were the things—and bowling. </span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: So when did you move away from Richland, and when did you come back then?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Oh. We left in ’58, ’59. We left in ’59—June of ’59. And we came back for good in ’71.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Had the place changed a lot in that time?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Grown! Yes. Not so much Richland. Although it was beginning to grow. But the areas between Richland and Kennewick that used to be grapev</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">ines and all kinds of farmland where </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">Columbia Center was getting started and it just—I didn’t know my way around.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: [LAUGHTER] Are there any things I haven’t asked you, or anything you’d like to talk about that you haven’t had a chance to talk abo</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">ut yet, in terms of your work</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> at Hanford, or--?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: At Hanford? Of the early years?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Yeah!</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: I don’t know. I enjoyed it very much. It was very mentally stimulating. And even the recreational things that were here were—because we had the symphony, we had the Richland Players. And it’s good to see that they are growing. If we’d only get our performing arts center.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: I’m with you on that. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">Man three: We’re with you.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: And they’re saying 20, 30 years, and I don’t have that many years left, I’m afraid.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Well, I want to thank you very much for letting us come to your home and interview you, talk to you. I appreciate your sharing your experiences with us very much.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Well, it’s been kind of interesting, thinking back to those days.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man three</span>: I had a quick question, comment.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Yeah?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man three</span>: So when you were in the labs—</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man three</span>: What would you do? What were you doing in, like the PUREX or the—what sort of thing would you do?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Oh. Well, the laboratory was an analytical lab. And they were divided into hot sections and cold sections. The hot section would receive the really radioactive materials that had to be handled in big glass-enclosed, with lead—a glass so wide. But I was never involved in that real high level. By the time I got things, it was down to the very low level radioactive materials that we could handle in a hood with ventilation. We wore just a lab coat. I’m trying to think if we even, in those days—I don’t think even at REDOX that I was involved with anything higher than just very low level materials. And we would separate out the plutonium or the uranium out of the fraction that we got, and would pipette it onto steel planchets. Little steel discs. And then the discs would go downstairs to the counting lab, and would be put into the counting lab and they would determine how many counts per minute were coming off of that. That would tell them the amount of radiation that there was, the amount of material that there was in that. We did everything in duplicates and triplicates, to make sure that we hadn’t made a mistake.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">Most everything was done triplicates</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man three</span>: So you didn’t work in the hot cells because of gender?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: No, no. I didn’t work in the hot cells because I didn’t work in the—I was never assigned to it.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man three</span>: But that wasn’t a gender-based—</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: No.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man three</span>: I was trying to—</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: No, I don’t think it was gender-based at all.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man three</span>: The other question I had was—so, GE and stuff, if you</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> we</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">re five months pregnant, then that was the time to separate.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: Yep.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man three</span>: Did you have a job to come back to, or that was terminated?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: [LAUGHTER] You had a job to come back to if there was a job available. That was part of the reasoning, they said, </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">oh, that </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">going into the classified laboratory was perfect for you, because there’ll always be a job available. Little did they know that computers were coming along, and computers were going to do all the abstracting and all the bibliography. You’d punch in a question and they’d come out with all the answers of here’s the materials that we have available on that subject. So computers did away with that job.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">Had your old job been available, would you have had it, or would you have had to reapply?</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>: I would have had to reapply.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Yeah, that’s what I was thinking.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> Yeah, it wasn’t an automatic thing.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Slate</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"> You were expected, as a young married mother, to stay home with your children. At least until they got into school. That wasn’t to say that there weren’t people who went back to work right away. But it was not the usual thing. Of course, I wanted to be able to stay home with the kids. By the time I had three, I had to go to work. [LAUGHTER] By that time, I started looking around and thinking, well, what can I do? I can go back to school and get a job as a teacher. So I got my teaching degree. And I taught school for five years until we decided we got to go home, we got to come back here to Richland. And that’s when I got back into the chemistry.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: All right, w</span><span class="TextRun SCX184015053">ell, thank you again very much.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man three</span>: Thanks.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: I really appreciate your time and letting us come in here. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX184015053"><span class="TextRun SCX184015053"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man one</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX184015053"> </span></p>
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Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:30:46
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
223 kbps
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
300 Area
200 Area
Reduction-Oxidation Plant (REDOX)
Plutonium Uranium Extraction Plant (PUREX)
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
Sally Slate passed away on July 26, 2017.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Sally Slate
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Sally Slate conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
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Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-07-19: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Nuclear weapons plants--Health aspects--Washington (State)--Hanford Site Region
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
8/5/2015
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
200 Area
300 Area
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Kennewick (Wash.)
Plutonium Uranium Extraction Plant (PUREX)
Reduction-Oxidation Plant (REDOX)
Richland (Wash.)
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Ffe043af3846776e389ff8a8681a88431.jpg
1d9746b2f7feed8074166fc471965977
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F36e58cb630d8fbdedc6ee21db97c8258.mp4
06e803929dbc9370d6cde92f8b1e162e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Pre-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691">
<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span class="SpellingError SCX30075691">Kaas_Gordon</span></span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></strong></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Bauman:</span> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So just for official purposes, my name is Robert Bauman and I'm conducting an oral history interview with Mr.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Gordon Kaas. Is it Kaa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gordon Kaas:</span> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691">
<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Ok</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. On June 12, 2013. And the interviews are being conducted on the campus of Washington State University Tri</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Cities. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And I'll be talking with Mr. Kaa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s about his family's history and memories about their experiences in Richland</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">growing up in that community.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> So maybe, Mr. Kaa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s, you can tell me, first of all, a little bit about your family and maybe how your family came to</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">the Richland area.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well my father was an immigrant from Denmark and he came here right after the turn of century. Lived in Madras,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Oregon for a while and his brothe</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">r was up here in Richland. He co</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">me up here and he was a farmer. He bought</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">some ground here in what's North Richland and planted the majority of the acreage to apples.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">His brother took care of the orchard for about the first three years while he lived in Madras, Oregon. That's where</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">he met my mother and they were married. And they moved up here I think it wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s 1915, after the orchard began to bear</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">My oldest brother was born in Madras, and then I've got two older brothers, Nelson and George, that were born</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">here, plus my only sister, and then myself and my twin brother. The three older brothers are deceased now but</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">my sister and my twin brother are still living.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And do they live in the area here?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">My sister lives in Kennewick. That's Alice Chapman, her husband James, live in Kennewick. And my twin brother</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and I married sisters, but they live in Kenai, Alaska. And he was a plumber.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">When I got out of high school, we had moved to Kennewick in 1943, because the government said to pack your</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">belongings and go, you've got 30 days. However, we lived far enough north that they gave permission for those</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">that lived up on from here, there's a little rise in the contour, that area they let farm their crop that year. So instead</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">of moving in February or March, we didn't move until November of 1943. That's where the remaining five of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">six children were born.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So you'd mentioned your father came from Denmark.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I wonder if you could talk a little bit about what you know about why he came to the United States, and maybe the</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">same for your mother.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691">
<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, my </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">mother was an immigrant also, e</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">migrated from Prince Edward Island, Canada. And I had the pleasure</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">of visiting back there this past summer. First time I'd ever been there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">My father came over because of the opportunities that were in the US, and there was a lot of people moving to the</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> New W</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">orld. His background was farming. I think I mentioned he was the youngest of 12 children, and two brothers</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and a sister had immigrated over here ahead of him. So he had a little forewarning of what was here.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And at that time, this area here in Hanford and White Bluffs was a fairly new irrigation area and was attracting</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">people from around the coun</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">try</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">, and around the world, I guess you could say. Because there was other Danes</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and Norwegians and Swedes here. When I was small, when I grew up, we had an apple orchard. But during the</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Depression in the ‘30s</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">, apples was one thing that people didn't have to have and consequently, the market</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">went away. And at that time, peppermint was coming in and he </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">hired a county bulldozer to come in and bulldoze</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">the trees out and planted peppermint. And raised peppermint, as long as we was on the farm.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I should clarify that in 1949 I lost my father, and I and my twin brother were between our sophomore and junior</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">year in high school, so we became the farmers. And that was after we had moved from Richland to Kennewick.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">We had a 40 acre farm here in Richland and the war took my three oldest brothers. My father had the option of</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">keeping one of them at home to help on the farm, but he wouldn't do that. My sister, and my twin brother and</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">myself</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> became farmers fairly quick. And then we moved to Kennewick in 1943, and in 1948 he had come down</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">with cancer. And in '49, he passed away in the middle of August of '49.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">By that time my twin brother and I was the only ones still in school and we became students and farmers both.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And then after we graduated from high school, my mother leased the place out. And I ended up taking a job out in</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Hanford. I worked out there for 21 years, but</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> never got the thought of the fa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">rm out of my head. In 1972 my wife</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and I and </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">we had two children at that time, a son and a daughter. And we bought a farm six miles north of Pasco. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">that's been our home ever since.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So you returned to your farming roots?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> What about your mother? You said your father passed away, unfortunately, in 1949. How about your</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">mother?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">My mother lived for some years later. I think she died in-- I can't remember the da</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">te on it like I can my father—</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">but</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">in the mid '70s. I think it was '78 that she passed away. And at that time the farm was being sold for plots for</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">houses</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> and now it's all houses.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So how many so how many children were there in your family then? How many siblings did you have?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">There were six.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Six, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I had three older brothers. Then my sister come along. And then to finish out the six was my twin brother and I.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">You and your twin brother. And you and your twin brothe</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">r were born in hospital</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691">
<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">We were the only ones that were born in the hospital. Because thought there might be some complications. So we</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">were born in the Pasco Lady of Lourdes Hospital. The rest were all at home.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691">
<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And you talked about how the primary crop was apples for quite a wh</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ile until at some point in the D</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">epression you</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">shifted to peppermint. Is that right?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691">
<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691">
<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And were there other crops that you grew as well?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691">
<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, we had of course, alfalfa because we had a few livestock. We had asparagus. And that was up early and</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">that was the asparagus fields. My three older brothers were in t</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">he service. Two of them in the A</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">rmy and one in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Navy. We'd get up early and go cut asparagus.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And when we were left on our farm through the summer we'd see everything booming out here, trucks going by.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">We lived right on </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">George Washington Way. And we'd be out in the field and watching the trucks headed north</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">where</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> the construction was going on. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And we had strawberries. We had a few potatoes. Then, of course, peppermin</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">t. And all that ground was real </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">irrigated.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691">
<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">How was that irrigated?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Real irrigated where you had corrugates that the water ran down. And so I was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">changing water twice a day. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">my father worked from daybreak to dawn. But as t</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ime went on, we were more help. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">After the military took my three brothers my dad bought a tractor. And he didn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> like the tractor. He liked the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">horses. So my twin brother and I, we got a lot of practice on the tractor. He put</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> us out on the field and get us </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">started an</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d he'd go do some other chores. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">We, my twin brother and I, we continued to farm the Kennewick farm. Which, was d</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ownsized. It was only 20 acres. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">At that time though, you could mak</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e a living on a farm that size. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But I lost my oldest brother in the war. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">the next oldest one was in the A</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">r</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">my and over in Germany. And the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">third from the top was in th</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e Navy and over in the Pacific. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And after the war was over they came home and took jobs out at Hanford, my rem</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">aining two brothers. And when I </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">finished school I got a job out there. And my brother worked out there. My twin brother worked out there on</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> construction. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I was a power operator. And in 1972 I'd been wanting to get out on</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> a</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> farm and I said</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">, I got to make the move before </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I'm 40 or I'm going to give it up. And we found a place to</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> buy. And it's been good to us. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">My main crop, it started off being alfalfa and wheat and sweet corn. But after a </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">couple years I got into raising </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">potatoes. And that ended up being our main crop until I quit farming.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Got it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Let me just go back and ask you another question, too, about your family farm that you grew up on. So were the</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">re </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">other buildings besides the houses? The barn? Any other buildings? And you said it was 40 acres. Is that correct?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">40.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And so I wonder how large the house was? Were there any other buildings as well that were part of the farm?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, back then it didn't take as much a house as it does today. When my f</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">olks moved up here from Madras, </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Oregon--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and I can't tell y</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ou--I think it was around 19</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">17 or 1918. They </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">had the ground but there was no buildings on it. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But there was a small house. I think it was about a two-room house that my d</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ad's brother and </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">him</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> moved from what would be over on--is that--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">what st</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">reet is that? Over to the west? </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Anyway, they moved it from there to onto Georgia Washington Way where we live</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d. And then he added onto that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And then just before the government came in, we had enlarged the house and th</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e next year was another project </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">to finish it. But it started off being a two bedroom. And small ones at that.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Now, it was originally, was there an outhouse? What did you have?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">We didn't have neither electricity or r</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">unning water in the house until--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">it was about 1940.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So not too long before the war.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And that was a big improvement. My mother didn't have to pack water for the washing machine or carry it out. But</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">we didn't have any electricity.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So the washing machine had a little gas </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">engine on it. And like most, Monday was wash day. And that'd be all she'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">get done except cooking some meals.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So was there a well?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes, we had a well.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">That was before my time. But I remember that he had a nephew that came </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">over from Denmark plus my uncle </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">lived here and there was a hand-dug well. And that was on the proper</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ty that is the Energy Northwest </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">h</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">eadquarters now.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Oh, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. And what about neighbors? Who were your closest neighbors? Were there other famili</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">es that you </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">socialized with?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>: Well, yes. We had one neighbor that lived right across the road. And others close</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. I can say there was one, two, </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">three</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">about five that lived in walking distance. You know</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">, a 20-minute walk at the most. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">It was interesting. In the early spring of 1943 there was a number of cars that ha</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d come into town. And they were driving different places. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">It was late enough that some farmers were out in the field. The next day they were </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">all in town at the schoolhouse. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And they called to me and said that the whole community, including White Bluffs i</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">n Hanford was being evicted for a government project. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And that's all they would say. Nobody knew what was ready going on out t</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">here until after the bombs were </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">dropped. And it was interesting when those people that were here d</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">riving in cars were appraisers. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And they were going around and appraising the farms of how much to give th</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e farmers for it. Some got very </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">nervous. They thought if you didn't take the first</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> they might just haul you out in handcuffs </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">or whatever. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But they allowed if you didn't accept for the third appraisal. My father a</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ccepted the third appraisal. My </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">grandmother, she got nervous. And they got her to sign. I think </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">it was on the second appraisal. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But my father, if you didn't sign and take the third appraisal, then they would take it</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> to court. But they give you, I think </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">it was 80% of the offer. And there were a few that took it to cou</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">rt. But my father thought the--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But the surprising part about that is the farmers that took the money and couldn'</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">t find a farm, the price of the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">farmland was going up so fast that what would buy a farm when they got the mo</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ney, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> year later was probably only half enough. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So those people put a hardship on them. But I can't say our situation put a hardship. Becau</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">se we was able to find </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">a farm and it was a good form.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Do you have any idea how much your parents got for the farm?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">You know, I've been wondering that myself. But what I can tell you is that the 20</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> acre farm we got, it had a big </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">house on it. It had a five-bedroom house plus porch,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> front and back. It was $7,200. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And I'm sure it was in that neighborhood, maybe a little more. Because it was 40 a</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">cres rather than 20. And it was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">the only house still standing in North Richland until it too was torn down oh, 15, 20 years ago.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Oh, it stood for that long?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> because the criteria was that if it had indoor plumbing and electricity they </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">would save it if they could and </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">somebody would move into it. And a pa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">trolman that was hired by the--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">well, I guess it was GE back then. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Or no, it </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">was DuPont.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">DuPont?</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Mm-hm.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">He want</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ed that house. And he got the okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> on it. But he would come by about e</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">very three or four days and see </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">what the</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> progress was of us moving out. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">He was anxious to move in. There was a shortage of homes. And it was used for liv</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ing for a few years and then it </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">was right in the middle of that big trailer camp that was out here. And it was turned </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">into the office for the trailer </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">camp.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So he moved in shortly after your grandma left then?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes. When he could see the date that we was going to be out, he had his stuff packed and ready to move.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And so how old are you at this time? About 9 or 10 years old? Somewhere in there?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I was 12 years old when we moved.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> So we moved and we were still moving in N</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ovember. Because that's when my </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">birthday</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> is. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And I remember the time we took the tractor with a big trailer we had behind it wi</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">th some of the last things. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">my dad let me drive it after we got off the highway. I was 12 years old. And our </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">farm, in Kennewick, the address </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">was 3904 West Fourth Avenue now.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So what did you think about this at the time as a young boy? You had spent your who</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">le life, at that point, on this </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">farm. And you're suddenly having to move. What did you think? And do you know</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> what your parents thought? Did </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">you talk to them?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, we spent a lot of time driving around to find a farm. We looked up a lot up </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Prosser </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Way. I can remember </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">sitting out in the yard there for a couple of hours, my mother and dad talking. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And there was a nice big house, older house. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">It was a little smaller farmer than we had gotten. They finally decided they would </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">take it. And my dad went to the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">door and said, we've talked it over and we'd like to buy your farm. And they said, </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">well, we're sorry. My husband's </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">down at the court house signing papers on it n</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ow. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So we were back to looking again. But you can imagine a 12-year-old. We thought thi</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s was kind of a thrill, driving </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">around looking at farms and discussing it and where we was going to live. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I can remember several farms we </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">looked at that some of them had a nice house. But the property wasn't the best. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">he soil wasn't the best. But we </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">was happy when we settled on this one in Kennewick.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So for you, maybe the fact that you ended up with a nice farm in Kennewick--</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes, it was a nice farm. Kennewick is a little bit rocky. But it's bearable. The farm </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">we had out here in Richland was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">a lot </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">more sandy</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. But heavier soil, you can raise better crops. But sandy soil is easier to farm.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So I want to go back to also talking about your early years here. Where did you g</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">o to school? And what was the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">school like? And how many? How big was the school? That sort of thing?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">The </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">school I went to was built in--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">which was Lewis and Clark school down in</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> south Richland. And the year I </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">started there</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> it was brand new. Because of the D</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">epression there was money f</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">or stuff like that, to generate employment. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And Hanford got a new school. And Richland got a new school. And that's where I s</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">tarted the first grade, my twin </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">brother and I.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">My sister was four years ahead of us. So she was in an old school that they immediately tore down after the new</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">school was built. But my dad was a well thought of man here in this area. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> when</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> the irrigation district was in,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">neighbors twisted his arm till </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">he agreed to </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">go on the board for irrigation. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Same for the school district. He was on the board, directors there. In fact, he was</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> the president of the board and </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">signed a c</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ouple of my brothers' diplomas. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And after we moved, well, some would know Jay Perry, who was a county co</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">mmissioner in Kennewick. And he </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">came and wanted my dad to run for his pl</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ace. They talked quite a while. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And my dad said, wel</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">l, Jay, that would never work, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ecause you're a Democrat and I'm a R</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">epublican.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> He said, I'd </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">do anything t</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">o get you in. Whether you're a Republican or not. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So th</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">at's the only way I knew of </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">what his preference of party. But there was, f</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">or farmers back then, there was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">more done for the farmers than a lot of people.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So do you know how big the school was? Do you know how many students there were about?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, it was an eight-room school, first through the eighth grade. And I would</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> say, there was probably on the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">average of at least 20 in each class. Then when things got a little tougher, first,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> well, second grade and half of </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">third was in one room. And the other half of third and the fourth grade was in a</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">nother room. So they were small </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">enoug</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">h then that they could do that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">that school was tore down for the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">replacements that there are now. But it was a nic</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e all-brick school that for old </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">time's sake, I hated to see it go. But both of my children started in that school.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Oh, did they really?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">For first grade. Because we lived in the south end of Richland at that time. And our</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">what is</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> the--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">the</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Justice over in </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Pasco, he went to that school. My son went with him. Cameron Mitchell.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Oh, Cameron Mitchell, sure. So what sorts of things did you do for recreational activities growing up on your farm?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Oh, main thing for recreational was work. But we did have time. And when we were l</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ittle my dad didn't require us to--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">We never were slave labor by any stretch. But we'd roller skate out on the roa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d. There wasn't very many cars. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And we'd play hide and seek and one thing my dad let us do is a couple horse to a</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">n old sled that we had that was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">about four by six, to a horse. And take our dog and we'd go out hunting j</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ackrabbits. Didn't have a gun. But that </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">dog could catch the jackrabbits. And we'd probably get five</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> or six every time we went out. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">They'd be just wandering out through the sagebrush. We was out at the edge o</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">f the farming community here in </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Richland. So ther</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e's plenty of sagebrush ground. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And we thought that was great, to go out with the dog. My twin brother and I, an</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d my three cousins from over on </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">the coast would come here. I got a picture of it. Looking at it yesterday, that a</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ll five of us on that sled, out </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">jackrabbit hunting. But just things like that. What kids </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">do.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Sure.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Bicycles.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Oh</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Yeah.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> So you were on a farm. Did you go into town much? Into the town of Richland?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, it was a five-mile drive on the school bus. Back then we didn't have t</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">hese factory-made school buses. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Generally a farmer would say, I'd like to build a bus and hire it to haul the students.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, there was an aisle down the center that you sat back to back to and then down each side. And it was just</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">made out of an old truck. And we didn't know what heaters were. Wintertime got pretty cold.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But--</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">[PHONE RINGS]</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">No cellphones then</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> either.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Huh?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">No cellphones then either.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I meant to take it out. But I forgot it.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">That's all right.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I think I was in about the third grade when we got factory manufactured school bu</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ses. And they looked as long as </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">a train. And there was three of them. And that picked up stude</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">nts all over the Richland area. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And then it wasn't too long after that the government came in and the area just </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">exploded. And it was surprising </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">when you had to, how fast they could put buildings up. They had people in here.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> They added onto the school and </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">built more schools. But after '43 I wasn't here much.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Did you start going to school in Kennewick then at that point?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes. I think I was in the fifth grade when we moved to Kennewick.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I was wondering about sort of community activities. Do you have any memories of c</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ommunity picnics or 4th of July </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">celebrations? Anything along those lines?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, yes.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> In that time, the boat races--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">that would be equivalent t</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">o what we have now here in the Tri-C</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ities—was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">up at White Bluffs. And I remember, several times being young, going up there and watch the boat r</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">aces. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">th</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">en there was community picnics. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I remember looking at some books at the county fair, before they registered at th</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e picnics, they had them. Found </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">a couple where my folks, my dad registered as being at the picnic, 4th of July picnic, I think they</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> were. Then there </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">was plenty of family gatherings. Maybe two, three, four families would get together </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and go to the park. But I don't </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">know, it never seemed like we lacked activity.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">What about churches? Were churches close by? Did your family go to church regularly? And where were they?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">What</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> church, you say?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah, churches</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Well, my folks heard the G</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ospel by</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> two homeless ministers in 19</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">21. And the chur</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ch met in a home. And I'm still </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">in that faith today. We don't have church buildings. So there was churches in t</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">own. But they accepted that way </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and the family grew up in it.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. So you mentioned earlier, talking about the Depression, and how your fat</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">her then sort of changed crops, </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">right? Primary crops. Did you know of any families in the area that maybe lost th</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">eir farms? Or did you see any </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">other impact of the Depression for other families or for the town itself?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Well, my uncle</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> lost his--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">that lived, oh, half mile or less from us. And I remember my dad saying he wanted him to</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">financially help him. He was a bachelor. He had never married until he was 82, I think. And then he married his</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">sweetheart</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> that he had when he was young.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And neither one of them, they were </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">married. They got back together </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">in old age.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">That's quite a story. Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But anyway, my dad had to decline him because he said, Jim, I've got a family. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> if I did that I would probably </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">lose my farm too. And you're single. Realized I hate to say no. But I just don't have i</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">t where I can feel that I could </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">do it. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">there were others the same way. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But you have to remember that I was-- that was not something I can physically r</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">emember. I was too early in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">'30s. I was born in '32. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> remember him talking about ones</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> that sold out or it didn</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">'t have any equity and couldn't </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">make payments. But my father was very frugal. He didn't buy what he couldn't afford,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> which was very little, that he bought. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But yes, when my father decided to push out the orchard, we had a big enough orcha</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">rd. In fact, it was the largest apple orchard in the Tri-C</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ities. I can't tell you how many acres it was. But it was 15 acres or so.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Do you know what kind of apples?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">At that time, Red Delicious. But he made the decision to take the apples out</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> beca</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">use every year he'd be losing a </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">little more money. And plant peppermint. Well, 100 pounds to the acre of peppermin</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">t oil was considered excellent. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And I never remember hi</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">m getting less than 100 pounds. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And I remembered selling for $7 a pound. And today the price of oil isn't that much bett</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">er. It's just that the farmers' </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">farms are a lot bigger.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Mm-hm.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> I think, from what I've heard, I know some people that a</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">re farming peppermint and $9 or </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">$10 I think would be an excellent price now.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So what happened with your uncle then? He lost his farm you said? What did he do at that point?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">My uncle?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">M</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">m-</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">hm.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">He moved to Oregon. And lived in Troutdale for quite a while. I think he just hired </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">out. He was a stonemason, brick </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">mason. And I think he made a living at that.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I want to ask you a little bit about, you talked about the war a little bit and that you</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">r older brothers all joined and </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">went to serve. Do you remember hearing about the war? And have any memories about that at all?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah, when the war come on, </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">some time</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> during that we got a radio. And I k</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">now my dad listened to the news </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">every evening. My oldest brother, Edward, that was born in Oregon and was the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">only one that wasn't born here, was drafted into the A</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">rmy. And he took his training down in one of the southern st</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ates. I can't remember for sure now if it was Texas, or--. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Anyway, they ended up sending him to a little place by Washington</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> D</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">C</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> that they cal</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">l </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span class="SpellingError SCX30075691">Vint</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Hill Farms. And it was a </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">training, a special training area. And he worked there as, we'd probably called it </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">a cadre that helps do training. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But there everything was coal fire</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. So in the wintertime they had to keep the furnace going and the hot water</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">heater going and snow </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">removal or whatever. And he never did go overseas. But he was on a laundry run.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And he was riding in the back of a deuce and a half army truck. And a Lincoln hi</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">t the truck head on. And he was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">thrown up against the cab and killed. So he wasn't-- he didn't see overseas action</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. But I remember that was a sad </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">day for the family.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I imagine. You mentioned having the radio. Did your family get that before the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">war or at some point during the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">war, you remember?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">It was during the war. I don't remember. We didn't have a radio while we were still in Richland.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Oh, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. You got it after you have moved to Kennewick at some point.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. So how did you get news when you were in Richland? Was there a local newspaper?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah, there was a newspaper. And don't ask me if</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> it was daily or weekly or semi-</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">we</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ekly. But well, I guess, in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">old days,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> we took the Spokesman Review. I don’t think--there wasn't a local newspaper. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">h</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ere might've been a weekly. But </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">you're getting too far back in my brain.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah, do you know how your family found out about the war, that United States w</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">as going to war? Was it through </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">the newspaper? Or sort of word of mouth?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, I think all the above. You know, neighbors were close and we did get th</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e Spokesman Review. And I don't </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">know if it was a day late. I think it came down on the trai</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">n. So it could be the same day. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">At that time Pasco, its main industry was the train. A train town. And Richland was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">just a little farming community </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">along with White Bluffs and Hanford.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Right. And then was it in the spring of '43 that you first heard about that the g</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">overnment was coming in and was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">going to be taking people--</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Yes, y</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">es. 1943.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But your family, you have sort of the rest of that growing season. Is that right?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, it must've been later in February or maybe first part of March that that h</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">appened. I suppose there's some </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">way I could find out. But I do know that the ones that lived in what we call downt</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">own Richland didn't get to stay </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and farm their crop. And we did.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah. I wonder if there's anything that we haven't talked about yet that you think wo</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">uld be important to talk about, </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">something you know, about growing up in Richland, ab</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">out the community itself, about </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">farming?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, we had a great swimming pool, Columbia River. Also fishing. Never had a fan</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">cy fishing pole. But go down to </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">the river and cut off a large willow, tie the line on the end of it. Works </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">good</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">What</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> sort of fish did you catch with that?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Probably mostly carp. Occasionally we'd get an edible fish.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> But we enjoyed doing it</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. Some real hot days, the whole </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">family would go to the river. Our firewood, you could put on what they call a boom ou</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">t on the river. It'd be several </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">logs fastened together with chain or cable. And have </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">an anchor out on the upper end. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So it would catch all the wood that was coming down. And that's where we got th</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e firewood. And for the icebox, </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">we'd go down and my dad would saw chunks of ice out of the river and we had a</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> sawdust bin that we would bury </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">the ice in there and it would last long ways into the summer. So things were a littl</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e bit crude back then. But none </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">of us died from it. We all made it.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Right. [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">What about in the winter? You know, in terms of the river, the river ever freeze ove</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">r? What sorts of things did you </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">do? Any things that you can say--</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">All I can remember about that is that what I've been told. I think I was about two ye</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ars old when it froze over. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">they even drove cars across it. I don't think we had any bridges at that time. It wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s a ferry that would ferry cars across. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And it seems like the winters don't get as cold as they used to here. I don't know if it'</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s a cycle or what it is. But my </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">younger years, we could ice skate on the river, most all winters.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Mm-hm. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So that was something you did in the winter then</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> for fun</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, I don't remember doing a whole lot. But you know, the river is danger</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ous, and we knew it back then, i</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">f the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ice only goes out a sma</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ll ways. So my folks wouldn't--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I just know that my folks would</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">n't have let us go to the river </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">to ice skate if the ice wasn't thick enough.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And you mentioned a ferry. Where was the ferry landing?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Well, there was the ferry la</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">nding down at what's Columbia Point</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> now. An</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d there was another one between </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Kennewick and Pasco. There was another one up at Hanford, one across. It would come and go as the need</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> was. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But I remember the first bridge across the Columbia was long enough ago that I can't really remember it.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. I want to ask you a little bit about your employment at Hanford. When did yo</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">u start working at Hanford? And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">how long did you work there? And what sort of work did you do there?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, I graduated high school in 1951. And of course, we were still farming the gr</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ound. I did take a job in wheat </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">harvest. And my brother stayed and did the chores that had to be done through the summer. And so my mother</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">paid him what I made, the same amount that I made. So it wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s like both of us having a job. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">After wheat harvest </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">was over in September of 1952--I think it was, yeah, 1952--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I w</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ant out and applied for work at </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Hanford. And I got a job in the power department, running the steam boilers and tur</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">bines and that's out there. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I worked there for 14 y</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ears. It was all under GE then. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I finished up in what was called the N Reactor. And that's when they built a st</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">eam power plant just across the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">fence from the N Reactor. And I applied for a job there with, at that time was t</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">he Washington Public Power. Now </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">it's Energy Northwest. And I stayed there until '72 when I got the craz</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">y idea of being a farmer again. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And haven't really regretted it. You go from being carrying a dinner pail to being</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> a businessman in one sense. It </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">takes a l</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ot of money to farm these days. </span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man</span> 1: </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Sorry, one last time. It looks like battery.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man</span> 2: </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Oh.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man</span> 1: </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Pretty low.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">You can prompt me on anything you want to.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">What's that?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">You can prompt me.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Oh, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. I'm going to ask you just a little bit more about you working at Hanfor</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d. You mentioned working for GE </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and at the N Reactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> and ask you where else at Hanford you worked?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">You asked me where I met my wife. I can give you a little more on that.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">There you go. And then I may ask you about I know President Kennedy had the official ceremony, right, in '63.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And I'll ask you if you were there.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I was still working for GE. And it was Thursday morning. I had to work a swing shift</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> that day. So I just stayed out </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">there.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So you mentioned working for GE for a number of years. And then you said you e</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">nded up with you working at the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">N Reactor. I wonder before that, what other parts of the Hanford site you worked at?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, I started at the C Reactor in the power department. C. B and C were right </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">together. Actually it was the B </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">reactor. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Then I got drafted in the army. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And in D</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ecember I went in the service to--t</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">hey sent my back to Virginia for training. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">nd when the training with over, </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">took a troop ship to Korea. I spent two years in Korea. Part of the time I was f</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">irst service. War was still on. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And then after my two-year stay I came home and they put me back on o</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ut there. At that time I'd been </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">communicating with my future wife</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. And my twin brother, h</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e had a bad ea</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">r and they wouldn't accept him. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Ironically we was going with sisters. But they weren't twins. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">so they decided to get married. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So they got a two-year head start on us when I came home. Well, my wife, Bever</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ly, and I got married. And been </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">married ever since.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> And how had</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> the two of you met? When did you meet?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">We was in school together. And the same way with my brother and his wife.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And so how many years is that now?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Boy, you're--</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER] I'm testing him</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Off camera speaker:</span> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">It'll be 60 next year.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> That's</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">--</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Wow, almost 60.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">It's getting awful close to 60.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah, wow. And so you mentioned you were in Korea for two years. And the war wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s still going on when you first </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">arrived?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes. Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And what sorts of--</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I went in and they put me in the medics. And I took my medic training down in C</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">amp Pickett, Virginia. And then </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">sent me to Korea. I was a medic.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And then one other thing I wanted to ask you about, during your time working at</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Hanford, President Kennedy was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">here in, I believe it was September of '63. August or September of '63 to dedicate the N reactor.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I was wondering if you were there at that time and if you have memories of that?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I was. I was there. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> witnessed his groundbreaking. H</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e flew in in a helicopter and fl</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ew out in a helicopter. I think </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">probably went up to Moses Lake, where they parked the plane</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> And it was interesti</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ng that I happened to be on the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">swing shift at that time. So when the ceremony was over I had to go over to the plant and start my shift.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Was there extra security that day? Or do you have any memories of a lot of people there?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Very much so. You know, that was just not long before he was assassinated. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">nd there was a lot of security. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">There was three helicopters came in. And the doors opened on all three of them</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. They come to land, you didn't know which one he was on. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But the first thing you seen was they pulled a machine gun up in the doorway.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> And they looked all directions </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">before they left anybody off. And there was a big crowd there. That was very interesting.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Mm-hm.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Were there any other events during your time when you worked at the Hanford site that sort of</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> stand out? Any </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">significant happenings or anything that sort of stands out in your memory?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> They formed a rescue</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> crew out there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> They outfitted an older bus. And I thin</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">k there was about three or four different crews, maybe five. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">We never did</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> get called to an event, like there's been several around the Unite</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d States since. But that's what </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">we were trained for. And I was on one of those crews because I'd been a medic i</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">n the army, was the reason they </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">put me on there. We had drills. But neve</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">r had to go to an actual event. </span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And obviously Hanford was a place where security was very important. Di</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d you do have to have a special </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">clearance to work there? Or what do you remember about some security processes?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, yes. I had what they called a Q clearance, which was top clearance, wi</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">th everybody that was full time </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">employed. That the only ones that would get out there was if they had to have a </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">special person, something broke </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">down and had to go out there. And then he had to have an escort. And they told us</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> that you don't talk about what work it is on the job. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But at that time, Hanford wasn't classified top secret anymore. After the bomb</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s were dropped on Hiroshima and </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Nagasaki, that's when they found out what Hanford was building.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Were you able to drive your own car out to the site where you were working? Or would you have to take a bus?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Oh, we had to take an expensive bus ride.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> They charged us a nickel each way. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">nd nobody could afford to drive </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">their cars. If you did, </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">you</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> car pooled. But because the buses didn't have any air cond</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">itioning, just the windows. But </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">as long as </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I worked for GE I rode the bus. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">When I started working for Washington Public Power we car pooled. They didn't h</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ave an option. But they paid us </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">for travel time.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And how long did you work for Washington Public Power then?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Seven years.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Seven years. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">'65 to '72?</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> So anything else that I haven't asked you about, either ab</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">out growing up on the farm here </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">in Richland or about your work at Hanford that you'd like to talk about or you thi</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">nk is important that we haven't </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">talked about yet?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Something serious?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Oh, either way. No, it can</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> be funny.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, I remember when my twin brother and I was out and we had a watermel</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">on patch. And we thought it was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">time to pick the watermelons. And we'd pick a </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">whole pile of them. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">My dad said, well, those aren't ripe yet. We'll have to feed those to the pigs. So the</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> pigs got watermelon early. But you know, we would--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">that's some of our pastime would be walk</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> around the neighbors and such. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">There wasn't too many dull moments. Especially, my mother used to say that when </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">you have twins, well, one can't </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">think of the other kin. So I guess you can take from that what you want.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah. If you had to sort of sum up for someone who wouldn't know much about the area, what it wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s like growing </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">up in the small community at the time, growing up on a farm at the time, what would you tell them?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, that there wasn't many dull moments. I think there's an advantage that ki</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ds today don't have. We grew up </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">having responsibility to know that there might be a little time for play. Bu</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">t they're also work to be done. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I can remember going out in the fields of whole peppermint and my dad would</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> take two rows where my brother </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and I, we'd take one apiece and pull the weeds out. And we'd fill up a gallon </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">jug of water. Had a burlap sack </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">wrapped around it and dipped it in water before we went out. And that would k</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">eep cool. That was our drinking water. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Had to come in in time for chores. We milked as many as five head of cows. But at the time my dad got </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">sick we </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">only had two milk cows. And a couple of </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">horses and several young stock. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And then there was 4H and FFA. That was after we moved to Kennewick. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> can't remember much more about </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Richland, only being 12 years old and there's probably more. But I'll think about </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">it after our interview is over. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I remember riding the bus was quite a treat. When we got the new buses in Richland i</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">t was, as I said, I think I was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">in about the third grade. It was quite a treat. And they said there was heaters in them. But we coul</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">dn't tell when </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">winter come</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. </span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Didn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> feel like it. </span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">They weren't very efficient.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, thank you very much. This has been really interesting, very informative. I appr</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">eciate it. You’ve been great. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Thanks very much.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691">
<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Have you interviewed others?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
</div>
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Gordon Kaas
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
01:02:57
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
232kbps
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
N Reactor
B Reactor
C Reactor
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1915-2013
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1952-1972
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Kaas, Nelson
Kaas, George
Kaas, Edward
Chapman, Alice
Perry, Jay
Mitchell, Cameron
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Gordon Kaas
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Gordon Kaas conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-06-8: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
White Bluffs (Wash.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
6/12/2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
B Reactor
C Reactor
Hunting
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Kennewick (Wash.)
N Reactor
Pasco (Wash.)
Richland (Wash.)
swimming
White Bluffs (Wash.)
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F507063cefe9d78ab8e1e3049e0745d2d.jpg
f91d11548c42ed5fd7a25b4de7e68794
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fd26a879697db06c3efd2030ffb267ebc.mp4
1a4107fd51be81672f81bbfa3424400c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Robert Bown
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div>
<div>
<p><strong>Northwest Public Television | </strong><span><strong>Bown_Robert</strong><br /></span><span><span><br /><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Bauman</span>: My name's Robert Bau</span><span>man. I'm conducting an oral history interview with Robert Bown on June 17 of 2013. The interview is being conducted on the campus of Washington State University in Tri-Cities. And I will be talking with Mr. Bown about his experiences working at the </span><span>Hanford site. Okay</span><span>?</span></span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Bown</span>: </span><span>Yep.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Okay, gr</span><span>eat. So I'm just going to start by asking you if you could tell me how</span><span>--</span><span>why you first came to work at</span><span>Hanford?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Well, I graduated at the University of Colorado, and was looking for a job. And Norm Thompson from General</span><span>Electric C</span><span>ompany interviewed many people and we got together and I was hired. And I was</span><span>--</span><span>do you want to know</span><span>why I was</span><span>—okay,</span><span> I'll</span><span>--</span><span>well, I was impressed with the idea that here is a new energy system. And I wanted to be part</span><span>of it. So I was pretty excited about working in this industry.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And what was your degree in?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Chemical engineering. But I consider myself, now, a nuclear engineer by experience.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And so what was your initial position? What was the initial job</span><span>,</span><span> then</span><span>,</span><span> that you had?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Well, started out as a technical graduate, and spent some time in training. And actually I had to have a security</span><span>clearance, so I was in a survey team laying out power lines, things like that, to begin with. Just to mark time. When</span><span>the clearance came, well then the work started. And I went to</span><span>--</span><span>you want an experience?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Absolutely.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>As a technical graduate, I sort of made stops at several spots so that they could look at me and I could look at</span><span>them. Went to separations and the reactors, and I chose the reactors and they concurred. And we lived happily for</span><span>some time.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And so what year was this? What year did you start?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>I came here in 1948.</span><span>And I left in 1971. In the meantime, I wo</span><span>rked for General Electric, Douglas United Nuclear, </span><span>the US--United States Research and</span><span>--</span><span>Energy Research and Development Administration, and then the Department of</span><span>Energy.</span></div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Great. So how long for General Electric then?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Well, until they left the project, whenever that was. I don't remember it precisely.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And so when you started at the reactors with your first job, were you at the B Reactor?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>I was at B Reactor.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>What was your job there? What sort of thing</span><span>s were you doing?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Well, first of all, of course, it was in training on shift. Eventually I became a shift supervisor. And then an area</span><span>supervisor</span><span>—</span><span>or operating supervisor, if you will</span><span>. A</span><span>nd then I went into</span><span>—</span><span>since that was shift work</span><span>—</span><span>went into a day</span><span>job. And I was the in charge of scheduling and forecasting of the Hanford production and integration with the</span><span>separations people and Federal Department or</span><span>--</span><span>yeah, the government until I actually went to work for the</span><span>government.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>So scheduling and forecasting, what</span><span>--</span><span>could you maybe explain that a little bit? What did that entail?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Well, there were varying numbers of reactors</span><span>. A</span><span>nd I had worked at B and H, </span><span>but </span><span>in my day job I worked for</span><span>all of them. I scheduled the outages, and took care of the accounting for the production</span><span>of all the reactors, made the reports, and schedul</span><span>ed their outages. Because that </span><span>takes a lot of people when</span><span>they're shut down, so</span><span> you only want one at a time. So</span><span> you have to be governed partially by the need for</span><span>discharging, refueling. So you get those variables, and you come up with a schedule that efficiently utilizes the</span><span>force available.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And then</span><span>--</span><span>so after you did that, what was your next position then? Your next job?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Well, I went to Washington, D</span><span>.</span><span>C</span><span>.</span><span> and worked for the Department of Energy there.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Oh, okay.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>And that's sort of a big blank period. I don't remember what I did. I must have worked hard, though.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span><span>When</span><span> you first came to the area then, where did you live? What sort of housing did you live in? And--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>I lived in a ranch house. I was the prime</span><span>--</span><span>first occupant. So when the ranch houses were new, I got one. I lived in</span><span>a little trailer in North Richland for a while. I lived in that house and ended up with two children and a lot of good</span><span>memories.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>What was the area like when you first arrived here?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>What was </span><span>the which</span><span> like?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>What was the area like? Richland as a place to live and--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>The area was a mess. The big flood of 1978 had just occurred. Smell was not too good and roads were torn up. A</span><span>fresh dyke had been built and it was not fully landscaped. And it was sort of a difficult time, but we survived.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And one of the things I like to ask people about is</span><span>--</span><span>Hanford was a very</span><span>—</span><span>a</span><span> lot of security, r</span><span>ight? Sort of</span><span>a secret site, to a certain extent. Wonder if you could talk about that at all? What did that mean for you in terms of</span><span>your work, in terms of security? Could you drive your car to work? Did you have to</span><span>--</span></div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>What was that last point?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Could you drive a car to work</span><span>,</span><span> or did you have to take the bus? Or how did that--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Well, either one. I preferred to take the bus and let s</span><span>omebody else do the driving,</span><span> because the areas were</span><span>quite distant. B</span><span>ut you could drive, and I would drive when necessary. And since I didn't always get my work</span><span>done in the total allotted time, I'd have to get there on my own to catch up.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And were there any other</span><span>—</span><span>any security issues at all? Did you</span><span>--</span><span>I know you had to get a special clearance to work--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Had to have a what?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Get a special clearance to work on the site?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Oh, ye</span><span>s. Q </span><span>clearance. Well, in the security situation</span><span>,</span><span> you don't talk too much about work away from work.</span><span> But Richland—</span><span>you weren't very far from work, and everybody else was in the same boat, so we could talk shop</span><span>some</span><span>,</span><span> since they were cleared, too.</span></p>
<p><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span><span>: Right, y</span><span>eah. So you worked</span><span>--</span><span>what various places on the site did you work then? You worked at the B Reactor, you</span><span>mentioned.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>B Reactor and H Reactor. I think I spent some time at F Reactor also. And then in town for when I was scheduling</span><span>and forecasting.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Okay. At the F</span><span>ederal</span><span> B</span><span>uilding in town?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>The what?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>At the Federal B</span><span>uilding? Or--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>703.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Okay</span><span>. Do you remember any</span><span>--</span><span>w</span><span>ere there any events that really stand out to you? Any strange happenings or</span><span>memorable events that took place during your years working at Hanford?</span><span> Things that really stand</span><span> out to you?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Well, there was always something happening, and usually it was bad. And you spent a lot of time recovering from</span><span>incidents, or radiation problems, or fuel element failures</span><span>--</span><span>for which becoming quite </span><span>common when power levels</span><span>were raised up to very high levels and quality of the fuel wasn't. Incidentally</span><span>,</span><span> I spent a year or two in fuel</span><span>production, too</span><span>--</span><span>fuel fabrication in the 300 A</span><span>rea. I think between the </span><span>time</span><span> that I was a shift supervisor and the time</span><span>I became an operating supervisor, I spent a year or two building</span><span>—</span><span>making fuel elements as a</span><span>foreman for the crew of people working with the bare uranium.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>When you worked at B Reactor</span><span> and you said H Reactor also, </span><span>how large of number of employees generally</span><span>were there?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Well, we had</span><span>--</span><span>the crew was generally an operating supervisor, called an area supervisor, a shift supervisor, a</span><span>chief operator, four pile operators, and a couple of the next level down</span><span>--</span><span>whatever that </span>was. Utility operators, I<span>guess they were called. And then we had side groups that didn't report to me, but were helpful. Health monitoring</span><span>--</span><span>or HI</span><span>--</span><span>health, whatever it i</span><span>s, and the maintenance people, w</span><span>e would work with. So just a general plant</span><span>operation.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Yeah. Okay</span><span>. One quick thing I want to ask about was President Kennedy came to the Hanford site in 1963 to</span><span>dedicate the N Reactor--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Yes.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>--and I wanted to know</span><span>--</span><span>ask if you were there? W</span><span>ere you at the event? Any memories you have about</span><span>that?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>About when the President was there?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Well, I wasn't personally involved with</span><span>--</span><span>I was just doing my job. I was impressed, of course, with the President,</span><span>and the notoriety or fame that we enjoyed.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Did you and your family go out to watch him do the dedication at all?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>I think we di</span><span>d, yes. And my daughter says, okay</span><span>. She was there.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Yeah. Must have been a pretty interesting</span><span>—</span><span>I mean it sounds</span><span>--</span><span>as I talk to other people they said that it</span><span>was sort of one of the first times they really opened up the site to let family members come on to the site</span><span>,</span><span> to see</span><span>the President.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Well, it was just a big holiday. And I think they were impressed with the operation. And I hope they are again</span><span>today. It's still there, but not operating.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Yeah. So you worked at Hanfo</span><span>rd from 1948 to 1971, you said.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Yes.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>O</span><span>f course much of </span><span>that, the height of the Cold War. D</span><span>id you have a sense of</span><span>sort of the important work you</span><span>were doing? I mean what did you</span><span>--</span><span>what of your, sort of, thinking about</span><span>—the Cold War would have been--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>As I mentioned earlier, I was pleased to be associated with a new energy at nearly the ground level. It had been</span><span>going for a while before I got there. And I enjoyed working there. I took a part in </span><span>community functions, too. Elected</span><span>to City Council and my wife was elected to</span><span> be</span><span> one of the freeholders</span><span>--</span><span>20 freeholders</span><span>--</span><span>that wrote the</span><span>--</span><span>whatever it's</span><span>called. Wrote the charter--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>The charter--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Charter, yes.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>For—t</span><span>he City of Richland Charter?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Yes. So we were involved, both of us</span><span>--</span><span>myself and my wife</span><span>--</span><span>in the founding of the city itself. It was a going</span><span>operation before that, but under government control.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Can you talk about that a little more? When were you elected to the City Council? And what made you decide to</span><span>run for a seat on the City Council?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Well, I can't remember the exact date, but I was sort of encouraged to partici</span><span>pate by an old </span>friend, Fred Cla<span>gett,</span><span>who has better credentials as an old timer. And he kind of encouraged me to work there</span><span>—</span><span>or to work in the</span><span>community. And I served on the Planning Commission, things like that.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>So you were very involved in--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>I was quite active.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>--city government--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>City government, yes.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>--in an early period. And you said your wife was involved in the--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Yes, f</span><span>reeholder operation.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Yeah. </span><span>Why did</span><span>--</span><span>do you know why she chose to get involved in that? Why you thought it was important? I know you said</span><span>Richland initially was a </span><span>federal city under federal government control. Why you thought it was important to</span><span>move to becoming a sort of</span><span> independent city?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Well, you like to be independent of the government control. But since they're picking up the tab, you have to listen</span><span>to them and accept</span><span> their advice, usually. A</span><span>nd still remain your own person. We tried not to be a servant of</span><span>the Atomic Energy Commission, whom I generally ended up working for. But we cooperate</span><span>d</span><span> quite nicely. We work</span><span>ed</span><span>together. I think it was a fruitful situation where we--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>So what happened then when the transfer happened from federal government control to becoming an</span><span>independent city? In terms of the homes, for instance? Were people able to purchase their own homes? How did</span><span>that--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Well, they sold the homes to us at a bargain rate. It was 75% of assessed valuation, I think. So we got a good</span><span>deal. And we were proud to be property owners</span><span>. Real citizens of a free</span><span> city</span><span>--</span><span>atomic city</span><span>--</span><span>famous.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Were there any</span><span>--</span><span>in those early years in Richland, any community events, special celebrations, or community</span><span>events that were important to the city early on?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Well, nothing really stands out. We had the general celebrations. And it was just normal</span><span>--</span><span>a normal city. And we</span><span>had a good time living it.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>You know, what would you like future generations</span><span>—</span><span>maybe somebody will watch this video 20 years</span><span>from now, or 50 years from now. What would you like people in the future</span><span>, who might see your interview</span><span>, or</span><span>watch part of it, or listen to it</span><span>--</span><span>what would you like them to know about working at Hanford?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>About what?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>About wor</span><span>king at Hanford? And what that was like.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: Oh, working at Hanford.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And what it was like to work at Hanford? And/or living in Richland during that--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Yeah. Well, since it was my first job, I didn't have an awful lot of experience. Well, I'd worked construction jobs,</span><span>and things like that, but it was</span><span>--</span><span>I was proud to work for General Electric. I didn'</span><span>t have an emblem tattooed on me </span><span>or anything, but I was a faithful cheerleader for them. And I still like General Electric. I still like the federal</span><span>governm</span><span>ent. And they were good to me, a</span><span>nd I think I gave them </span>a good<span>--</span><span>my best.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And how long</span><span>--</span><span>you mentioned that you worked at Hanford from 1948 to 1971, how long did you live in Richland?</span><span>Did you move at that point? Or--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>I left Richland in 1971 for a job in Washington, D</span><span>.</span><span>C</span><span>.</span><span> with the Atomic Energy Commission.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And how long were you there?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Until 1986. Through several employers</span><span>--</span><span>General Electric, and Douglas United Nuclear, Energy Research and</span><span>Development. It seems like there's one</span><span>--</span><span>Was there another one in there? Two? Then the</span><span>—yeah,</span><span> Energy Research and</span><span>Development. Well, ended up with the Department of Energy, anyway.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And when you were in D</span><span>.</span><span>C</span><span>.</span><span>, what sort of work were you doing in D</span><span>.</span><span>C</span><span>.</span><span>? What was your job there?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Bureaucrat.</span><span> [LAUGHTER] </span><span>Well, it's hard to tell you my actual responsibilities, but</span><span>--</span><span>because they kept varying. But I don't know. I kept busy.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And then I'm going to go back now to when you first came to Hanford, you said something about sort of being a</span><span>me</span><span>ss because of the flood that year. And I know some people who came here in the '40s talked about the</span><span>termination winds, you know--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Yes.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>--when the dust </span><span>would blow and a lot of people would leave.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>The winds blew. The</span><span>y still blew. And the dust blew. B</span><span>ut I didn't terminate.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>I was from a dry Midwestern situation, so the desert wasn't too serious a problem.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>It wasn't too unusual for you</span><span>.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>No. During the Depression and drought, the wind blew and the tumbleweeds collected in the fences, and the dust</span><span>drifted like snow and you could walk over the fences. So I'd had experience. It wasn't too different from the</span><span>Hanford--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Right.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>--situation. It wasn't</span><span>—i</span><span>t did rain a little more, but not much.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>In your various positions working at Hanford, I was going to ask you a question </span><span>about unions. Were there unions on the campus?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Well, there were not, to begin with. And they were organized. And I was not involved in the bargaining unit, but I</span><span>had to learn to work with a union as well as the people. No problem.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Did you have a favorite part</span><span>—</span><span>what was your favorite part of working at the Hanford site? Do you have something</span><span>that you really enjoyed doing during your time here that</span><span>--</span><span>of the various things you had to work on?</span></p>
<p><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bo</span><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">wn</span>: </span><span>Well, the scheduling and forecasting was pretty interesting. I started out just scheduling. And then they cut the</span><span>number of reactors and I also took over the forecasting operations, and some inter-site work</span><span>--</span><span>the shipping off of a</span><span>special products that you made at the reactors. I handled those. And it </span>was a varied job, and quite interesting. I<span>enjoyed it.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Clearly, yeah. Is there anything I haven't asked you about that you would like to talk about? Anything about your</span><span>experiences either working at Hanford or living in Richland? Any special memories or things you'd like to share</span><span>that you haven't had a chance to talk about?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Well, I got myself a ski-boat and we whizzed up and down the river quite a bit. And we spent time with our family in</span><span>the Portland area, so we weren't too far from friends</span><span>--</span><span>from old friends and family. Climbed a few mountains.</span><span>Travelled a lot</span><span>--</span><span>Europe, Alaska. We had a pretty full life there.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>It sounds like a good place for recreational activities.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Yes, and for growing a family it was real good.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And you said you had two children?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Two children, daughters</span><span>,</span><span> are both here.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And they both grew up in Richland? Went to high school and so forth in Richland?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Let's see. Where did you go to high school?</span></p>
<p><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Daughter</span><span>: </span><span>We moved when I was in 9th grade.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Oh, okay. We moved e</span><span>ast. So they ended up in Maryland for high school</span><span>--</span><span>most of high school. Robin went to the University of</span><span>Montana, and Karen, the younger one, went to Evergreen State College.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Well, thank you very much. Again, is there anything else that you want to talk about? Or memories you have from</span><span>working that I haven't asked you about?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Well, you've asked all the right questions. I hope I gave the right answers.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Well, thanks again, very much. I really--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Sure.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>--appreciate you coming in and sharing your stories and memories.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bown</span>: </span><span>Thank you for t</span><span>he opportunity.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Thank you.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:26:32
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
248 kbps
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
300 Area
703 Building
B Reactor
H Reactor
N Reactor
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1941-2013
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1941-1971
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Clagett, Fred
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Robert Bown
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Robert Bown conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-07-08: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Nuclear weapons plants--Environmental aspects--Washington (State)--Richland
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
6/17/2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
300 Area
703 Building
B Reactor
H Reactor
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
N Reactor
Richland (Wash.)
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F180660234e109a77b4340610c4e50f43.jpg
3816611a7f7cbd88b1b5d25e8b651ee9
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fc9ba08478b7c6707489551cbfcf22ffa.mp4
8ba37550abf1599a853424689260db35
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Steve Buckingham
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX150736100">
<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span class="SpellingError SCX150736100">Buckingham_Steve</span></span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></strong></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX150736100">
<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">We're going to go ahead and start if that's all right.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX150736100">
<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Steve Buckingham:</span> Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX150736100">
<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> So if we could start by just having you say your name and spell</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">it for us?</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX150736100">
<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Okay. </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">It's</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> John Stevens Buckingham is the full name, and it's S-T-E-V-E-N-S</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> B-U-C-K-I-N-G-H-A-M, just like the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">palace.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">All right. Thank you. And today's date is November 13 of 2013--</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX150736100">
<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">November 13, 19</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">2013.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX150736100">
<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: 2013.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX150736100">
<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">2013.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> I'm still in the last century.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX150736100">
<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">And my name’</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">s Bob Bauman, and we're doing this interview on the campus of Washington State University Tri-Cities. So if we could start maybe by having you tell us how you came to Hanford, what brought you here, when</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">you arrived</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">?</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX150736100">
<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">. Well, first of all, I'm a native Washingtonian. I was born in Seattle, grew up in Pacific County. Went to</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Washington</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">graduated from high school in 1941, and went to Washington State College, at that time, in chemical</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">engineering. Well, of course you know the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor on December 7th of that year. I was</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">able to finish off my first year at Washington State, and came back, the second year, the sophomore year, there</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">were just mobs of people on campus recruiting for military. I tried several of them. I tried to get into the Navy V-12</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">program, but my eyes were not good enough. But I was able to get into an Air Corps program that they were</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">looking for meteorologists. So I signed up for that. I had to get my dad to give me permission, because I was only</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">18 at the time.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">But I was able to finish </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">my sophomore year. I had just begun my</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> freshman, my first semester, and I had just</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">started the semester, my second semester, when I got the call to report to active duty. And the program that I had</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">signed up for was this pre-meteorology program. And actually, it was kind of a neat situation. I was sent to Reed</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">College in Portland, Oregon. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">nd it was a little bit of a cultural shock, coming from a rather conservative</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Washington State to go to Reed College. We could smoke in classes. We could go up to a girl's room in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">dormitory. [LAUGHTER] A</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">nd they sang rather interesting songs on campus</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> too.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> But Reed has very high scholastic standards,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">and I think the best math professor I ever had, I had at Reed College. But we went</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">we just had almost normal</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">college classes:</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> math, and physics, and geography. It was an interesting experience.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Well, after a year at Reed, and also being in the military</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">because I think we must have had about</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">we had</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">, what,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> two</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">flights of cadets there, and we were all in uni</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">form, of course. And after one year</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> they decided they had enough</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">meteorologists, so most of us were looking around for another program to get into. And I applied to go into</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">communications, because I had a lot of physics background by then, and was accepted in that. They sent me to</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">—oh, </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">gosh, I can't even think. It was North Carolina. It was the first time I'd ever been down to the South, which was</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">another cultural shock. [LAUGHTER] T</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">o see separate drinking fountains for black</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">colored and white. That's where we went</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">through, essentially, Officers Candidate School. But the communications part of it was spent at Yale University in</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">New Haven. </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">That was about—oh, </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">I think that was about six months that I was there going through communication.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">We had to learn all about radio and communications. But there is where I got my</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">I was commissioned, then, as a</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">second lieutenant in the Air Corps. And about the time that I</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">just before I finished there, one of my friends had</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">gone up to Yale University</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">to Harvard, because they were looking for people to work in radar. Well, why not?</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> So</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">I applied, and was sent up to New Haven</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">not New Haven, up to Harvard. And there we went through a very</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">intensive training on electronics, getting all the background on electronics. I used to kind of laugh. If you dropped</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">a pencil on the floor went to drop</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> to pick it up, you'd be behind three months.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> It was really intensive training.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">And after that training, then they sent</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">most of us went downtown in Boston and worked on the top floor of a</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">building that overlooked the harbor</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> developing radar they were working on.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">And that was really kind of interesting. But that was kind of temporary. That was just to give us some practical</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">experiences. So that</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">then when that part of the training was over with, they assigned me to the 20th Air Force,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">which was the big bombers that were gettin</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">g ready to go to Japan, and sent</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> me to Boca Raton, Florida. And that</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">was kind of another goof-off. We were just</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">we had to go o</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">n training exercises, flight training exercises once a</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">week. So I got to</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> fly all over Florida, all over the Caribbean.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> Just goof-off things. It's really kind of almost</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">embarrassing, because we'd go fishing and stuff like that on the boat, because they'd always had to send a boat</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">out in case a plane went down in the ocean, and so we could go out on the boat an</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">d</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> fish.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">While I was at Boca Raton,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> then</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> the Japanese surrendered, and the war was over. Well, what are they going to do with</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">all of us that had been trained?</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> I went out to Albuquerque, New Mexico, and they were bringing B-29s back from</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">overseas. And all we did was remove the radar equipment from B-29s and stash it someplace. Well, I guess they</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">decided they really didn't need us anymore. So I was able to be discharged and get back to the Washington State</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">College to pick up my second semester sophomore year. Well, I had accumulated so many credits in going to</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">these other colleges. So I went and talked to the dean, and he says, well, why don't you just switch to chemistry?</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Get your degree in chemistry or general, and then come back for a master's degree.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Well, I had been on the East Coast for two years, and I did not like it back there. Being a</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">my mom and dad lived</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">out in Pacific County</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> yet</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">, and I wanted to get home. I had two job offers when I graduated from college. One was in</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Troy, New York, and the other was here. General Electric was</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">had on the campus quite a bit of recruiting</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">people, because they were getting ready to develop a new separation p</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">rocess called the REDOX</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> process. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">nd they</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">were looking for people with scientific background, chemistry and so forth, to work there. Well, I grabbed the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">opportunity, and I arrived here on the 26th of July in 1947. I remember the day.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> And that was really</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">it was very</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">interesting, because Richland was</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">GE was really operating under the old DuPont system yet. It was the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">organization was still the one that DuPont set up during construction.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">We were in the technical department.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> And I was sent out to the 100 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">reas</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> waiting for my clearance to come</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">through, and w</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">e were just analyzing the water</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">that went</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> through the piles. And then when my </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">clearance</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">came through, they sen</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">t me to the 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">rea where</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> they were developing this new separation process, this</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">REDOX</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> process, and we were doing the analytical control for </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">REDOX</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> process. And that was</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">of course, the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">development was using just uranium and other chemicals that didn't have any of the radioactive, really highly</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">radioactive material other than uranium. But it was really very interesting, because a whole new line of metallurgy</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">was being dev</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">eloped there. The metallurgy in—</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">old metallurgy was stuff like smelting, and electrolytic, and stuff like</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Well, the chemical separation process they used out at Hanford was a carrier precipitation process, which did not</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">allow them to recover the uranium. So this is why they were developing this new solvent extraction process, so</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">they</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> could</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> cover both plutonium and uranium simultaneously. That was really quite a remarkable new metallurgical</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">process that they were really developing here at Hanford, because how do you contact organic and aqueous</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">pha</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">ses, and stuff like that? And </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">what kind of a con</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">tact? They had all kinds of ones</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> that they were working with</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">there in the 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">rea, and it was really very interesting. We were doing all </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">the analysis for it. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">then </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">I was there</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">maybe a little over a year, and they decided we needed to have a little experience with </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">“</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">real</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">”</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> material.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER] So they sent</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">several of us of to be</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> shi</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">ft supervisors, out of the 200 Area, and the 222-T and 222-V P</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">lants. That's</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">where we got to work with real material. And it was just another training program. The</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">y</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> were still</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">they had begun</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">construction on the </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">REDOX</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> P</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">lant. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">nd about that time, then there was a little bit of an accident down in Texas,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">where a ship loaded with ammonium nitrate blew up and practically wiped out the city of Texas City.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> And that was</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">what we were using as a salting agent in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">REDOX</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> process. Well, that set the </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">REDOX</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> process into a big delay.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">What are you going to do with</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">we can't use ammonium nitrate. It's just plain too hazardous. They began looking</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">at new salting agents at that time, and it took, oh, maybe six months or so before they finally came up with a new</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">salting agent.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Well, we just kind of fiddled around a little bit out in the labs. They were closing the business phosphate process</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">labs. They combined them into just one lab. So several of us just kind of floated around doing other work that was</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">kind of related to the REDOX</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> process. For a while, I was in standards, where we were making radioactive</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">standards they used to control the counting machines and all that kind of stuff. And it was not that interesting. Well</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">I had an opportunity then to go into an organization that was still there i</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">n the old 3706 B</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">uilding in 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">rea. It was</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">called process chemistry. And they were the ones who were working on the chemistry of the </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">REDOX</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> process. It</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">was just</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">to me, it was just an absolute perfect fit, because I liked to monkey around with experiments and do</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">research type stuff.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">And it was a neat bunch of people that we were working with. Some of them I still kind of chortle when I think of</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">some of the stuff they pulled.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> But I was able to move into that, and I w</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">as the third person to move out</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> to 222-S,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">which </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">was the laboratory for the REDOX</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> process. And that's where we were, for our final laboratory was out there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">And I stayed in that most of my working career. I did take a couple years to go over to work on writing the waste</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">management tech manual, because they were</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">that was another process. We got to work in every new process</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">that came along. We concentrated a lot on the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> REDOX</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> process, </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">because that was new. And then that</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> chemist down</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">in the Hanford laboratories discovered tributyl phosphate, so that opened up the whole new PUREX process. That</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">had to be developed. And all the chemistry that went in to that development, we worked with.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">And then they decided they had to do something with the waste, and there was an outfit came in that was going to</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">separate out fission products out of the waste. And we were going to have a big fission product market. Well, we</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">s</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">eparated out a lot of strontium-90 and cesium-137. And the strontium-</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">90 was all right, because they could use</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">that as a heat source for places where they didn't have much sunshine, deep space probes and so forth. The</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">cesium, unfortunately</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> the capsule we set someplace leaked, and we had a little bit of embarrassment. That had to</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">be cleaned up. </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">So Isochem had taken</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">that was when the companies had separated into all these different</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">companies. And the waste management </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">just </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">kind of petered out. We still had waste management we had to do</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">something with.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">So I continued just working on it</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> but went back to the process chemistry laboratory. I finally ended up manager</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">there for several years until I retired.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> But it was a real experience, t</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">hat's all I've got to say. I feel like I was very</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">fortunate in being able to work with so much new technology. And I think one of the more interesting ones was, we</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">were recovering</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">out of our wast</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">e, we were recovering neptunium-</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">237, and I had set up a small demonstration</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">process in the laboratory. And for three years, I wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">s the total source of neptunium-</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">237 in the whole United States.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">And that 237, when we first started doing it, we actually would convert the 237 to an oxide, and mix it with</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">aluminum, and make a fuel element out of it that we stuck</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> in B reactor to make plutonium-239. Plutonium-</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">239 is a</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">very unique isotope of plutonium. It is non-fissionable, but if you get a ball of it about the size of a golf ball, it's</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">generating so much heat, it'll actually glow red.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">So they use it as a heat source for deep space probes. So we were working on snap programs and all this is really</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">fascinating new technology. </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">And </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">I just feel very fortunate that I had been able to have a finger in some of this stuff</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">that's really far out. We were looking</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">you know that one time they were going to convert that big building next to</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">the FFT</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">F into a facility just to process</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> plutonium-</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">238. That was another program that didn't ever develop. But we</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">kind of had fingers in just an awful lot of stuff over the years. Some of the stuff I kind of laugh about. There was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">they developed silver reactors to remove iodine from our off gases coming out of the plant, because of the iodine</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">contamination. And one </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">of the silver reactors at the PU</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">REX P</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">lant blew up.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> Well, it was not serious. It was all</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">contained. But we had to try to figure out, why did that darn reactor blow up? Why did they have a reaction in</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">there?</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">And I still remember one of the old chemists, Charlie Pollock. He was the one who was in charge</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> of it</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">. But I still</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">remember him making mixtures and putting it outside the lab door on a hot plate and standing behind the door to</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">see it, was he going to pop? </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">[LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">We did an awful lot of innovation like that. It was just really</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">I think we did have a</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">good time mucking with this stuff. I jokingly say that</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">every Monday we would have what they called a process</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">meeting where the chemists and the process engineers would get together to discuss what we're going to do this</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">week. And I always said we just got together to see how we're going to screw the plant up this week. </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">[LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">There was</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">so much new technology, and every week somebody would come up with a new idea. They were the biggest pilot</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> plants in the world, really. [LAUGHTER] B</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">oth the </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">REDOX</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> one and the PUREX one, just developing these processes. The</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">whole</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">you know, when we first came here, we were living in dormitories.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">And the men's dormitory was on one side of town, and the women's was on the other side of town. We'd meet in</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">the cafeteria. [LAUGHTER] A</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">nd I still recall, when we were working shift works, we would gather in the cafeteria after swing shift,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">and we'd still be</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> in</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> there talking, or doing something with the guys who would come in for breakfast to go to work on</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">day shifts.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> Graveyard was always hell, because you didn't have time to do anything but sleep and eat.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> And swing</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">shift was kind of bad because the movie house, the movies didn't start until 4:00, and so we could go to any</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">movies or anything. But it was tolerable. We formed an organization called the dorm club, where we went on</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">made a lot of camping trips, had a few beer busts. I tell about, I was social chairman for a</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">while, and I found a big</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">bargain on beer, Pioneer Beer.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">It was made by the breweries that they opened when they were doing construction during the war. It was not very</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">good beer. I think I had five cases hidden under my bed in the dorm for weeks until I got rid of it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> But most of us</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">met our spouses at that time. And it was really a unique situation early on in the late 40s and early 50s, because</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">almost all of us h</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">ad been in the same boat. We had</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> started college. We'd been called into active duty during the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">war. We'd finished active duty and returned to </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">college to finish our degrees. So we all had had the same type of</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">experiences. Some of them were pretty hairy. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">n fact, I</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> well remember one of my roommates was telling about being in</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">the Philippines, and sitting on his bunk during one time, and said a big old snake crawled up between his legs.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> I</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">think I would have been of the roof and never come back </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">down if that had happened to me! [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">But you know we had all had similar experiences, and it was our first time, really, that we were making any money</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">that we could do things with. We could buy cars</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">, and bought cars</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">. So we went on just all sorts of trips. We learned</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">most of us</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">learned to ski. And those ski trips, that was still was fairly new in the State of Washington. There was a rope tow</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">up in the Blue Mountains at Tollgate. </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">And, o</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">h gosh, I think a season ticket cost $5.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> And</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> we would—</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">went down, and I think we</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">initiated the chairlift at T</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">imberline</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> down at Mount Hood. We went to a lot of places just when they were first</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">opening.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> So, in fact--</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">How long did you live in the dorms, then?</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Well, let's see. I lived in the dorms several years, and then an acquaintance was able to get an apartment over on</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">George Washington W</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">ay, and he asked if I wanted to share this apartment with him. You had to share.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> You</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">couldn't just live in one by yourself. So I then lived in that apartment for a couple of years, until I got married. Then</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> we had a B</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> house. [LAUGHTER] A</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">nd that's where we were living when they began selling Richland out. And we were junior</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">tenants in the B</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> house, </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">and way down on the move list, s</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">o there wasn't much chance of getting a decent</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">house. My wife and I bought a lot over in Kennewick.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">And we didn't have much money, but we had a lot of energy, and we did an awful lot of building our own house. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">think</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">I'm still living in it 54 years later.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER] So—</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">but it's been</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Oh, I don't regret a day of the work that we've done here.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">It's been challenging and interesting. After I retired from full time, I did a lot of part time work. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> helped—</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">was declassifying</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">documents and I was a tour director, taking people on tours of Hanford. And I worked at the old Science Center</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">down on the Pos</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">t Office, before that became CREHST</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> over there, where it is now. And the Visitors Center out at</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Energy Northwest, I worked there. And the FFDF Visitors Center. So it's been a wonderful life, really. </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">[LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Fun.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">I wonder, when you arrived</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> in</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">was it July 26th of 1947? What was your first impression of Richland, or of the place</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">here?</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">[LAUGHTER] Well! W</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">hen I graduated from college, when my folks came over to graduate, and we came back through here. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">I still remember going on the old highway, looking over, and seeing the stack of the old heating plant that used to</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">be downtown in Richland, and thinking, oh gosh, do I really want to come here? And it was a little different. Of</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">course I had worked in very highly classified stuff during radar during the war. So I was used to the classification.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">But Richland was really different. You just didn't talk about your work at all. You kind of </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">k</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">new what your buddies did.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">And there was the separation technology people, there was the pile technology people, the fuel technology</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">people. You kind of knew what they did, but that's all. You didn't really know any </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">details. And you never talked, w</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">e</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">never talked about it.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">You talked about the chemistry of</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> the </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">REDOX</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> process. Could you explain sort of what that means, in terms of </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">REDOX</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">what the process was?</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Yeah. The fuel is dissolved, of course. They take the jackets off with sodium hydroxide, and then you dissolve the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">fuel in nitric acid. And then </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">they used this solvent, it’s</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> an organic solvent. The stuff </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">we used was </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">H</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">exon</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">e</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">, for what</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">the chemical name is methyl</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">isobutyl</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> k</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">etone, which is a paint thinner. And to make sure that we could extract, this</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">H</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">exon</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">e</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> would extract uranium and plutonium from aqueous phase into this organic phase. Well, you needed to add</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">a salting agent to be able to improve th</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">at extraction. These were done i</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">n what we called columns. They were</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">packed columns. They used some stuff called </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span class="SpellingError SCX150736100">Raschig</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> rings, and they were about 40 feet long. The feed would</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">come</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> about the middle of the column. The organic things would come in at the bottom of the column.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">And then there'd be a scrubbing agent came in up at the top of the column, and that would scrub some of this</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">stuff out. Oh, it was a complicated process. Then we would oxidize the plutonium</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">or we would re</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">duce the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">plutonium through a three </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">valence state, and that wouldn't extract. And that was the separation column. And then</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">you'd have to run both of these stuff through similar columns to clean</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> it up. It was—r</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">eally, it was kind of a marvelous</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">process. It was a whole new metallurgical processing. It was something that hadn't been done, really, until we did</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">here at Hanford. So just developing all these littl</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">e techniques was quite a chore. And it worked!</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Then you said you were s</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">hift supervisor in the 200 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">rea?</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Yeah, in the laboratories.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">In the laboratories. So what sort of work did that involve</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> at that point</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">?</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Well, that was, then, that process chemistry that we were doing. But whenever there was an upset with the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">columns, there was all sorts of things, like the columns would occasionally flood, and they would just emulsify, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">they couldn't get the organic and the stuff to separate. But why was that happening? And things like that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Sometimes the chemistry would get off a little bit, or we would get a carryover for some reason or other. It just</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">it</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">worked, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> it worked very well. But we were able to recover both the uranium and the plutonium. So we weren't</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">putting uranium out in those old waste tanks.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Then, you know, when we developed the PUREX process, we used the tributyl</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">phosphate in a more dilute phase</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">to go back in and recover that uranium we had stored from the old bismuth phosphate separation process. So you</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">name it, we did it! [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> I kind of jokingly say that</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">you know, when DuPont was building this place, the war manpower</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">boards told them where they could recruit, and they did a lot of recruiting in the South, because that was not</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">highly industrialized. So that's why quite a few Southerners came up here to work. Well, Southerners are</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">rednecks.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> They can make anything work. And I really, I sincerely think it's a lot of the ability of those people to be</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">able to do things, why this place even succeeded. And when you stop to think that that original construction and</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">everything took place in 14, 16 months, it's just mind boggling.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Given the sort of materials you were working with out there, why don't you talk about safety issues? Was safety</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">emphasized quite a bit?</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Oh, you </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span class="SpellingError SCX150736100">betcha</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">. You know</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> DuPont was a st</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">inker on safety because they mad</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">e gunpowder. You've heard the story</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">about them getting criticized for making big profits doing gunpowder during World War I. So when they took over</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">the contract here, they said they'd do it for cost plus $1, and they only received $0.80.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> I think that's kind of an</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">interesting story in itself. But DuPont was really</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">boy, if you saw something was unsafe, that was corrected right</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">now. You didn't need to continue working in the unsafe condition at all.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">And I kind of laugh a little bit about. I think we were safer out at the plant than we were in our own homes. We'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">have these dumb safety meetings. Once a week you had to go through a safety meeting. Sometimes they were</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">boring as hell. </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">[LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">But the other </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">thing was that when we didn't have any accidents for a certain length of time, we'd get</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">a prize. I still have some of the prizes we won over the years. That was another thing. When GE was taking over,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">we could get GE</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">we </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">could </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">buy GE products at employee cost. You wouldn't dare buy a frying pan unless it was GE.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> So</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">there were many little advantages.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">I wonder, o</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">f the different things you worked on at Hanford, what were some of the most challenging aspects of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">work you did, and what was some of the most rewarding?</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Well, I think one of the most re</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">warding ones was this neptunium-</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">237. That was really a fun project, because about</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">once a month we'd have to start up this little pilot plant, and you had to run it 24 hours a day for about a week to</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">separate out this 237. That was a very challenging and </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">very rewarding project, because it</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> had a lot of interest.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">That, and the fact that it was also highly classified. They k</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">ept changing the classification,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> I think every month,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">you'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> have a new name for it. One time it was Palmolive.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> Let's see, what were some of the others? Birch bark.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">You never knew what you were supposed to call it from one month to the next, because it was a very high-priority</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">thing. Also, when we had</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">they begin shipping most of it back to Savannah River, because Savannah River could</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">make the 238 easier than we could here at Hanford.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">But I would separate out this 237, and I'd have to deliver personally to the mint car. That was the car that took the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">plutonium down to Los Alamos. I'd have to take that 237 up in a cask and put it on </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">that mint car.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> So there were a </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">lot of little things like that. Some of the challenges, we had some technical problems over the years that were real</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">problems. Like</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> we had a ru</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">thenium problem out at the REDOX</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> process that was a </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">little bit of a challenge. W</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">e</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">spewed some plutonium out on the ground out there. And plutonium is kind of a nasty stuff, because it doesn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">absorb. It migrates towards the river fairly fast. So there were a few of those little things that were a bit of a</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">problem. Also, then, during the Cold War, when production was so critical</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">you know you just didn't shut down for</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">hell or high water. And we were running out of waste storage space.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">We came up with a way we could treat the waste and make it crib</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">able, so we could put it just to a crib, an</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">underground crib, like a dry well. And that was kind of a dumb thing to do.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> But it was necessary, because we had</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">to get plutonium out</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> somehow or other. And we didn't have waste storage space. It takes too long to build a waste</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">tank. And some of the interesting little things is some of the crushers found that nice salty stuff down in the soil,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">and we had an awful lot of hot poop spread around in the desert at various places.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> Some of those challenges</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">were kind of challenging!</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> We didn't get too involved in it, but somebody was getting involved in it, and we always</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">knew who it was.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">So the situation where y</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">ou said that you sort of spewed</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> a little bit of plutonium, was that at PUREX? What</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">happened with that situation?</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Oh, they were recovering americium from the plutonium down at 234-5, and they had a criticality event down</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">there. That was a very challenging situation. I happened to</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">the engineer who was in charge of that was a good</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">friend. He was at a Boy Scout—at a heat </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">down along the river, and they went down and got him, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">brought h</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">im back</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> so we could do some work out there. But that was really kind of scary. That's the only really</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">serious incident. That and Mr. McCluskey</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">’s</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">, when the glove box blew up in his face. And I always blame the union</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">on that, because the union was being very stubborn about settling the strike, and that's why the column</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> had</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> sat with</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">this acid on it for so long. Then when they started it up, it took off.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Are there any other incidents or things that happened during your time working at Hanford that really stand out to</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">you? Humorous things, or serious.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">I can't think. I can think of several humorous situations that occurred, particularly when I was a punk kid supervisor</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">out there </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">in the 222-T P</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">lant. We had quite a few women workers out there, and I swear, I think those women used</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">lay awake at night to see how they could embarrass me. </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">[LAUGHTER] And t</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">his one</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">the hot water tank was in the women's</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">restroom, and it had a check valve in it. Well, the toilets were all these pressure-type toilets. And this one woman</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">went in to use the toilet, and the check valve didn</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">'t check. She burned her bottom. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, no.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: A</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">nd I had to take her to first</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">aid. And she was not at all hesitant about telling me exactly what had happened in detail.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> I about died having to</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">write up the accident report!</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> Had employee been instructed on the job</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">?</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> and stuff like that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> But I still chortle about</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">that.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Y</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">eah. Y</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">ou talked earlier about how during the peak of the Cold War, there was focus on production, production. At some</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">point, that leveled off, and there was sort of a decreased emphasis on production, and of course, eventually, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">shift toward cleanup. But I wonder if that sort of shift away from really high production, how that impacted your</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">work at all?</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> Did that change?</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">It didn't seem to change it an awful lot. Those are very complicated processes out there. There not just simple</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">processes, and they seem to have a tendency to something always going wrong. Like we had a situation of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">columns flooding. And it was detergents that was put in through the Columbia River, up in Spokane</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> and</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> Wenatchee</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> up</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">above us. Our water treatment system didn't remove this detergent. It was a phosphate detergent, and there it</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">came through with our water purification stuff that we were doing.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">I think it gave us a bit of a headache for a</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">while, of why there were these columns flooding all the time, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">little </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">situations like that. They see</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">med to come up, t</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">hey'd crop up at weird times. Or a piece of equipment would fail,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">and how do we do it. Just—i</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">f you ever go out to the a</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">rea, as you pass the old PUREX P</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">lant, there's a tunnel that comes</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">from the end of the PUREX Pl</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">ant almost out to the highway, and there's a vent out there. And that tunnel is full of</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">equipment that f</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">ailed in the PUREX P</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">lant that</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> they shoved it into this tunnel and left it there. That's got to be</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">cleaned up someday.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">I was going to ask you, President Kennedy came to v</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">isit in 1963 to dedicate the N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">eactor. Were you present that</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">day? Were you able to see</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Oh, you </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span class="SpellingError SCX150736100">betcha</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">. They took </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">us—a</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">nybody who wanted to go in a bus down to the place where they were going to have</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">the dedication. My wife, and her sister, and my two kids came out. And I don't know how my daughter ever found</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">me in that crowd down there, but she spotted me somehow or other.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> We were so far back you could hardly see</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> him</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">But that was the first time they actually allowed people to come on the project, too. So it was really</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">I think my</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">wife and her sister said they sat for an hour waiting to get through the barricade before they could come out. They</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">were both quite amazed at what they saw when they got out here.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Right. And as you look back at all your years working at Hanford, how would you assess it as a place to work?</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Well, some of the companies were much better to work for than others. I really enjoyed working for General</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Electric, because that's the company I first came to work for here. And Arco was a good company to work for.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Isochem was just kind</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> of iffy. They were very small—a</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">nd I don't</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">they didn't quite have their act together yet.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Some of the other later companies, I thought were just, </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">nah</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">. That was one of the reasons I quit</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> when I did</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">. I quit a little early.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">I took retirement at 63, because I just couldn't stand the company that was here at that time. They knew how to</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">build airplanes, but they didn't kno</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">w how to run a chemical plant. That</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> shouldn't be in here. I hope you edit that out.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">[LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">You</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> did talk earlier about some of the technology that you saw. I wonder, are there any other examples? Or you</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">could talk about some of the new technology that you saw develop </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">during this time you were there?</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Well, gosh, the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">technology was moving so fast. You know, they had this Fast Flux test</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">they built the Fast Flux Test Facility. That</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">was all new technology. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">the plutonium recycle reactors—</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">that was all new technology. I'm just amazed at the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">technology that they were developing here. And it was all developed here. We didn't get a lot of credit for it,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">unfortunately.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> And I feel kind of bad about that, because it was the cleverness of the people working here that</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">developed some of this technology.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Even up there in that</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">in what they called the old separation plant, the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> old</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> bismuth phosphate plant, the design of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">equipment in that is just very unique. It was the first ti</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">me that high-level radiation</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> radioactive material was</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">being handled, and they had to come up with a technique of handling it. There was a crane operator</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">there was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">big long crane that ran the whole length of </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">that 800-foot building. He sat </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">in a lead-lined cab behind a concrete</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">parapet. The o</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">nly thing he had was optics that</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> he could see down into the cells. And how he could take those--you look into one of those cells down there, and it's like looking into a plate of spaghetti. There's so much junk in</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">it, so much stuff in there, pipes. And all everything that comes in has to come through these connectors. And he,</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">the crane operator, had to know which one he had to take off first to get in, and another one in behind it, or</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">something.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">And just the technology they went through, and the learning process. </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">I don't know how anyone was ever</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> to do it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">I've talked to one old engineer that, fortunately enough, I could take on a tour one time. He came out here with</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">DuPont during the early construction, and he worked on quite a bit of it. He was here, and they gave him a special</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">tour. And I happened to be the one who took him around. It was one of the </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span class="SpellingError SCX150736100">funnest</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> days I had, because he told</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">me all sorts of things about some of </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">the stuff that he had worked on</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">. He had helped design the cask carts that</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">carried the fuel from the reactors up to the separation plants, and he knew the people who would design the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">connectors for the separation plants, and some of the design on the waste tanks. To me, some of the stuff that</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">they were able to do here, it still just boggles my mind. There was an awful lot of smart people working on this</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">place, that's all I've go</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">t to say. A lot smarter than me!</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">One more question. I teach a course on the Cold War, and of course most of my students now were born after the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Cold War ended.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> You know, I wonder, as someone who worked at a place like Hanford during the peak of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Cold War, what you would say to a young person who would have no memory of the Cold War at all, or much of</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">an underst</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">anding, what it was like to work</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> at Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">It was a little scary, because we were surrounded by gun emplacements. And I still remember going home after</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">shift one day, and there was some gun emplacements right at the bottom </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">of the Two East H</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">ill, and they were</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">all raised, like they might be ready, had a warning or something. And you kind of wonder about that. And we went</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">in, we always had to have these</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">in all of the buildings, we had supplies that we could hole up in case of an</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">attack. And all of us had junk in our cars, an evacuation plan. I know my wife and I did. I had canned goods that I</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">would put in the trunk of the car. And if we were attacked, she was to meet me at a certain places in Yakima, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">we were</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> going to head for the Willapa H</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">ills.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER] The Willapa H</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">ills are a very remote part of Pacific county.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Wow, s</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">o you did hav</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">e preparations in place in case, because--</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Yeah. And some people even built</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">there were a few bomb shelters built around.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Well, is there anything else about your work at Hanford, or your experience there that we haven't talked</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> about</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> yet that</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">you'd like to share?</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Oh, gosh, there's so many things that went on. I could sit here and talk probably all afternoon about some of this</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">stuff because new ideas would come up that I can't remember. Well, I can remember shortly after I had gotten</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">in</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">to the laboratory down at 3706 B</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">uilding, one of the women that I was working with, she and I did more uranium</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">analysis in one shift than anybody had ever done.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> We were very proud of that. We just hit every sample size as</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">perfect. And it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">we just were boiling out uranium analysis like crazy.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER] I can't remember now, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">ut it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">there were little incidences like that that were kind of fun. And for a</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">while the coveralls that they were</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">giving us had pockets on them to take the size. They were colored. And there were some of those women, I tell</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">yo</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">u. I like women, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">ut I think some of those gals that use</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">d to work down there had a warped sense of humor. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">hey loved to grab ahold of these pockets and </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">rip. They'd rip the pockets off!</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> Well, they came up behind me one</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">time and grabbed the pockets, of and ripped, and the pockets didn't come off, but the whole seat came off.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> That</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">was when I was still single, and emba</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">r</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">rassed very easily. And I had gotten a blue sock in with my white underwear.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">My shorts were blue! [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> Oh, they got such a kick out of my blue under</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">wear!</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> I could have slapped them, though.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Oh, t</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">hat's quite a story.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">One of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> things that we did, I think we we</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">re a lot closer. We worked closely with each other. And we'd have</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">wonderful</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">we'd call them safety meetings in the tavern.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> They were just</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">We'd have a lot</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">we had a lot of</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">parties. But they don't seem to do that anymore. I don't know why. We were more like a big family, and if anything</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">happened to somebody, like a death in the family, we would all rally around them and do things like that, like</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">families did. And Richland was really a very close little community back then. If anybody got into trouble, boy, you</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">sure knew it.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Well, I want to thank you very much for coming in today, and sharing your memories and experiences. I really</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">appreciate it.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Well, I enjoyed doing it, because I think it was a very unique time in history. And I'm afraid that we're beginning to</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">lose that, because my</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">now, I'm getti</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">ng to the age where World War II</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> veterans are dying off like flies.</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> So many of</span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">my friends have already gone, and it's just a little shocking.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">Thank you, again, for coming in. I really appreciate it.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX150736100"><span class="TextRun SCX150736100"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Buckingham</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX150736100">You're very welcome. Thank you for asking me.</span><span class="EOP SCX150736100"> </span></p>
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Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:58:53
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
5273kbps
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
100 Area
200 Area
300 Area
222-T Plant
222-V Plant
222-S Laboratory
Plutonium Uranium Extraction Plant (PUREX)
Reduction-Oxidation Plant (REDOX)
N Reactor
B Reactor
Plutonium Recycle Test Reactor (PRTR)
234-5 Building (Plutonium Finishing Plant)
400 Area / Fast Flux Test Facility
Building 3706
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1947-2013
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1947-1987
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Pollock, Charlie
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Steve Buckingham
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Steve Buckingham conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
November 13th, 2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-05-11: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Nuclear Site (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Nuclear weapons plants--Environmental aspects--Washington (State)--Hanford Site
Nuclear weapons plants--Waste disposal--Environmental aspects--Washington (State)--Hanford Site
Nuclear instruments & methods
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
100 Area
200 Area
222-S Laboratory
222-T Plant
222-V Plant
234-5 Building (Plutonium Finishing Plant)
300 Area
400 Area
Arco
B Reactor
Building 3706
DuPont
Energy Northwest
Fast Flux Test Facility (Wash.)
General Electric
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Kennewick (Wash.)
N Reactor
Plutonium Recycle Test Reactor (PRTR)
Plutonium Uranium Extraction Plant (PUREX)
Reduction-Oxidation Plant (REDOX)
Richland (Wash.)