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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Franklin
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Alice Didier
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Franklin</span>: My name is Robert Franklin. I am conducting an oral history interview with Alice Didier on July 12</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX146332551">th</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">, 2016. The interview is being conducted on the campus of Washington State University Tri-Cities. I will be talking with Alice Didier about her experiences working at the Hanford s</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ite and homesteading outside of—</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">Connell?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Alice Didier</span>: Eltopia.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Eltopa.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Eltopia, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Eltopia</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">. So why don’t we start at the beginning. Where were you born?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: I was born in Portland, Oregon.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: I was a city girl. Met my husband</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> who was born in Condon, Oregon, and he came from wheat farming country. However, his dad was not a farmer; he ran a machine shop in Condon. However, Don worked on many of the farms up there in Condon. We were married in 1951, and Don was in the service. He was in the Air Force. So after he was discharged, we came home to Condon. Our dream was to have something of our own—a farm, or—you know—mainly a farm. But the ground in that area was way too expensive for us to ever dream of owning anything. So we had the—we decided to make a trip to Canada. We went all the way to Prince George looking for land to buy, because they were encouraging American citizens to come up there and settle. Well, after that trip—before that trip, Don got an inquiry, or got a letter from the—I don’t really—it was the Bureau of Reclamation? I don’t know. It was if you were a veteran, you were entitled to throw your name in the hat, and if your name was drawn, you might have an opportunity to draw some land up here in the Columbia Basin. On a whim, he filled that out and mailed it before we left. And we were very glad we did because Prince George was a pole thicket up there. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: It was a what?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: A pole thicket. </span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: A pole thicket.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">My goodness gracious, if you had to clear that land it’d take you forever and a day. Plus—what is—peat? It had a peat—you couldn’t burn it, because you’d burn off everything that was worth—of value to farm. So you had to clear everything by hand.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: So</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> anyway. Very glad that when we got back, he had sent this in, and he was informed to come for an interview in Connell by a board of people that would determine if we were qualified. You were supposed to have assets, I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> of $1,500. I don’t remember what the qualifications were. But we did not have—we did not meet the qualifications. But we decided that we’d bluff it through. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> So we came up in the fall of 1953. To Connell. I was eight-and-a-half months pregnant with my daughter. First thing I did was look up the name of the doctor in the phone book in Connell, because I thought I might not make it back to Condon before she appeared on the scene. But anyway, didn’t work out that </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">way. But they took Don out in a Jeep, and bounced over hill and dale, and showed him the land that they had laid out that was available for drawing at that time. Not everything was available at the same time. So he picked out our farm unit. I had never—I didn’t get to see the land. I didn’t have any part of that, because I didn’t want to chance taking a trip in the Jeep in my condition. February of ’54, his dad and Don loaded up—we bought this Army tent, and he loaded up everything we owned in the way of furniture and moved up to our unit. It was nothing but rock, sagebrush, rattlesnakes—[LAUGHTER]—</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">and,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> yeah</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">, sagebrush,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> I said sagebrush. A lot of sagebrush. All of that had to be cut and burnt—cleared, in other words, in order to farm anything in the area that we picked out. Some land around there had been farmed—wheat farmers had tried their hand at raising wheat in that area, small areas. But not enough rainfall. And there were sheep camps in there. They had been running sheep, some of them. </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">When Don brought me up, he pulled up on this—we had to come in from Eltopia; there were no roads built. So we had to come over hill and dale to get out to our farm unit. And he pulled up, and he said, this is it. And I said, this is it? I mean—[LAUGHTER] there was nothing there, period. It was sort of a shock.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And you hadn’t seen it before this?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: I had not seen it before then.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: It had been purchased sight unseen by you?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yes, yes. And he and his dad had preceded my coming up there to drop our stuff off and build a wooden floor and side—what would you call it? Sidewalls. Sidewalls for the tent. So they had it pretty well constructed. Anyway, that was the beginning. [LAUGHTER] Don had borrowed from a farmer in Condon a small little D4 Cat, I think it was. We hauled that up here. And he and his dad had built a scraper, a small scraper, to put behind it. So Don started developing a piece of land behind where we had pitched this tent. My daughter was three months old when we moved up here. Let’s see—</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">October, </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">November</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">, December</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">—four months old, I guess. And my son was about a year-and-a-half, or less than two. So we took up residence i</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">n our tent. [LAUGHTER] And </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">when we finally got our power, we had a refrigerator. Like I said, I had a </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span class="SpellingError SCX146332551">Sud</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> Saver washing machine that you could dump the water. We had two tubs out front—laundry tubs, like there used—women used to have in their house. So I’d save the wash water, and I’d save the rinse water, because we were hauling every drop of water. It was pretty precious. You reuse it a couple of times. Maybe not the most sanitary, but that was</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> the</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">—[LAUGHTER] That’s what we had to do.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: How long did it take from when you moved in to when you got power?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: I’d say two weeks at the most.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Big Ben</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">d</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> came in and dropped power in. But we still had no roads. We had a little ’51 Oldsmobile and we had a water trailer, and we had to go into Eltopia to the railroad—there was a railroad well. And we’d fill there. It took a half a tank of gas to get down to the well and back with a tank of water. Yeah. And we had no neighbors. There were no neighbors. It was just Don and I out there. Over the hill was a couple. She was an English war bride. And they had settled in there before we did. And then we had another couple to the south of us. But we were the only people in that whole area. It was pretty dark at </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">night,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> I’m going to tell you. There were no lights. There was nothing. It was black.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow. So how fast did the land clearing go?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Not very fast.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Not very fast?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Because we didn’t have any money. We used a big Noble blade and cut the sagebrush. Then we’d have to go out and pile it by hand in big stacks and burn it. Don managed to level off, I think—well</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> I don’t know, what was it? 14, 15 acres was the first—because in those days, there were no circles. It was all either you had hand line—irrigation hand line, or you had to level the ground to a grade that you could put in a ditch and use siphon tubes—rill irrigation, they called it. And Don didn’t want anything to do with the hand lines. So he was leveling it for rill irrigation.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And so you used real irrigation?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: We did.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And how do you spell that?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: R-I-L-L.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">R-I-L-L. </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">We did a previous oral history </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">where someone mentioned that and we didn’t—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Know how to spell—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: No one</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> at the Project</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> had heard of that </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">and we weren’t sure how to spell it.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Really?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So it’s R-I-L-L—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Mm-hmm.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: --irrigation. Thank you so much. Can go back and fix som</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">e </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">transcripts.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So it’s—just will you explain that again? That’s when you lay down—</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">where </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">you grade—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>; You have to grade the land so that the water will flow from the top to the bottom.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: You know, enough of a grade so that the water will flow down the—well, you put ditches from the head ditch up here that carries the main body of water. You would back up to that with ditch shovels and make ditches every so far through your crop. That’s where you would set the siphon tube and the water would go from the top to the bottom. When it reached the bottom, then you’d pick them up and move on down. You could only set so many at one time, depending on how much of a head of a water you had—or how many feet you had coming down the ditch.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So that’s a much more labor-intensive type of irrigation. I imagine, probably an older type of irrigation, as well.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Right, but not maybe as labor-intensive as packing that hand line. That’s work. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And what would the tubes be constructed out of usually?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Aluminum.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Aluminum</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> tubes</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: And there’s a picture, I think, in that magazine I gave you</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> from International Harvester, showing</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> me priming one of those tubes.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, okay, great. Wow, tha</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">t</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">’</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">s great.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> You had to learn how to do that. You had to learn how to give it a deal like this and flip it over quick so you didn’t lose your prime. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: A lot of people didn’t know how to do it in the beginning and they’d suck</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> on it, if you can believe that, to get the water running. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Kind of like siphoning gas?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah, only—the water was much cleaner than later on. I mean, after more—we actually</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> on this end of the Basin</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> reuse the water that comes in up north. So a lot of it’s recovered—what is that lake up there that—there’s a lake—I can’t remember the name of it right now. So</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> that was our first—and our first venture was to plant some hay. There was nobody to buy what you raised. We had no markets then. So I remember the hay that we baled—we finally got it baled and it sat out there until the hay grew up over it, because there was no sense picking it up; we didn’t have anybody to sell</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> it</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> to. [LAUGHTER] So it wasn’t a very productive, I guess, in the beginning, as far as producing money. So I went to work at Camp Hanford.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Do you remember what year that—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: No. Well, it’d be—okay, ’54 we moved up here. It was probably during ’54. Because we had to eat. </span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right, you needed some cash coming in.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Hay wasn’t </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">going</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> to cut it.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: No.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So what did you do at Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> I was a secretary. I was interviewing people for jobs out there.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: All kinds of jobs, or--?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: You know, that—I didn’t work there a whole long </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">time</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">. That was a long trip for me, clear from Eltopia.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: I</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> imagine.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> I had to drive that every day. I don’t remember. Not all kinds of jobs, I’m sure, because I’m not versed in scientific things, you know. I’m not sure it was Camp Hanford, so I don’</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">t know what did Camp Hanford do?</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> They were—it was long before all this Pr</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">oject stuff started out here in—I think it was—wasn’t that a military type of camp? Camp Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: There’s a few different things that are referred to as Camp Hanford. There’s the actual Camp Hanford, as it’s oftentimes noted as the camp where the construction crews lived. Then there was—there were a couple—</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">there was a military camp--</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: I think that was it.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: --ca</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">lled Camp Hanford as well, where they—when they had the military stationed there for—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> But I wasn’t interviewing for military; it had to be civilian peopl</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">e they were hiring or stuff. I </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">wasn’t military. Because I was not in the military and whatever.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right. So you sai</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">d you were a secretary, but then you said—didn’t you do something</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> with the whole body counter?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> That was for GE.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: For GE, okay. So in the beginning you worked at Camp Hanford, secretary/interviewer.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: And then I went to Bureau of Reclamation in Eltopia. They had a construction office there.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: So I went down and applied for a job there, and I was so happy when I got a job, because I didn’t have to</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> go very far to go to work. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">hey were still completing canals and doing work. So I worked down there for a while. And then I decided, I gue</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ss, that I guess that I needed more money</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">—or th</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">t we needed more money. So I went out—I applied to go to work at GE. And the first job I had was for Roy Lucas in tech shops. That was 300 Area. All my jobs that I held during that time that I worked out there were all for GE. It was just as GE was phasing out. And I forget who the next contractor was that </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">came</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> in, but GE—yeah. I left just as GE was—they were changing over.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And you said you worked for Roy Lewis at—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> No, Roy Lucas.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Roy Lucas.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> Lucas, L-U-C-A-S.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: At the tech shops?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Tech shops. He ran—it was like machining.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: They did machining. They had these tech shops—T-E-C-H—tech shops. And then I went to work for—well, there was a little incident between there. I got pregnant again. So I had to take a leave of absence, and my youngest son was born in 1960. So I think three months after he was born, I had taken a leave of absence, I came back, and I got a job at the Whole Body</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> Counter—I think that was next—</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">with Fr</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ank Swanberg, where they did al</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">l</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">the testing on people that were working out there with their dosimeters or whatever they were wearing. They did a lot of testing on people that had worked out there for their levels of radiation exposure. Then I got a job—I got a promotion and went out to 300 Area again, and I went to work for Ward Spear. I don’t remember the name of that. They were all scientific people there. The papers I typed up were horrendous, with all their equations in them. [LAUGHTER] Then</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> I worked for the boss of that </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">w</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">h</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ole group and he eventually became the CEO of Battelle, Ron Paul.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: You</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> know </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">Ron Paul, or have you heard of him?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: I’ve heard the name, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah, he</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> was—I can understand why he was promoted to what he was. He was one of the best bosses I ever worked for, let’s put it that way.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And why was that?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Very well organized. Never, ever last minute, I got to have this like ten minutes ago. No. He was always—I don’t know—just was a very personable man. Yeah, I really liked him. And then I got another promotion</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> and I went to work for Art Kee</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ne in radiation monitoring.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">kind of </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">back to radiation monitoring.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> Yeah. And he was head of the whole group that </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">supervised the Whole Body Counter</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> and whatever work—you know, all the people that were doing the monitoring out the</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">re. And that’s when I decided</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> that</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> I’</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">d better call it a day. I had five children, and I was driving—I was spending ten to ten-and-a-half hours a day—well, ten hours, I guess it was—for eight hours of work out here. I mean, it took me—we still were not financially doing that well, so I hopped car pools. I had three car pools by the time I got to work at 300 Area. I had to switch</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> and pass go. [LAUGHTER] And then had one</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> more switch, I think. I can’t remember, but anyway.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So then you moved back to the farm.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: I went</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> back to the farm, and that’s when things started to pick up, and our markets were better, and you had more choices of what to raise.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Do you know what year that would have been?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Well, Brett was born in 1960—oh, gosh. I think he was two, something? Probably 1962 or ’63.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And so you said things had kind of improved, at least market-wise by that time?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Right, well there were more variety of crops to raise.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So what were you—so you started with hay, so what were you expanding out into?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Well, we raised—in the beginning—well, we tried beans. We tried beans, we tried—I can just give you a repertoire of everything we raised. We didn’t do all that at one time. We raised sweet corn, we raised sugar beets, we raised potatoes. We were into potato growing—my husband loved to raise potatoes. Let’s see, sugar beets. Asparagus. We had 80 acres of asparagus once. So, we—can’t think of anything else. Wheat. We’ve had wheat off and on. I can’t think—and hay. Mainly, here in the last years, we’ve been mainly hay farmers.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Because potatoes were always a big gamble. And we had a very bad year one year and almost had to go into bankruptcy.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Is that because of weather or—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> Because of circumstances. We had two circles of potatoes, and they had out this chemical that they claimed if you sprayed it at a certain time, that it would set your potatoes so they didn’t put on any </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">more small</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> ones—under</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">sized, which paid you nothing. That y</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ou’d get bigger growth on the potatoes that were already set underneath the vine. It was MH-30, was what it was. So we tried that, and they sprayed it on </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span class="SpellingError SCX146332551">on</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> the hottest day of the year, I think. It was very hot that day. In two days, our potatoes were dead. Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So you literally could watch them perish.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah. Our field man came and he said, Don, the potato vines are dying.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> Because it was a salt solution, and they had no warning on their label that you should not spray over a certain temperature. And other people had used it and came out fine. But not us.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: But what was there we harvested. It was pretty sad. And then that was the year we got a rainstorm. We had wheat and we had a really hard rain. Then next day was like a pressure cooker. And all that wheat sprouted in the head. So it was feed wheat. It was not marketable.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Just—you know, one of those years. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah. Where nature seems to be throwing everything at you.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yup.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah. I grew up on a farm.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> This year seems to be that way, too. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: I grew up on a farm as well. My mom still farms.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Really?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> Then you know what I’m talking about.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah, I’ve heard lots of stories.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: When things start going wrong they just sort of escalate, you know? But potatoes, you had—at that time, you had $1,000 an acre into potatoes before you ever put a harvester in the field.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah. So—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: I guess that explains the switch to hay. So you said that you had done—the people—I’ve read that the people in</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> that Bend area had tried wheat</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> in the late 19</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX146332551">th</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> and early 20</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX146332551">th</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> centuries and kind of gave up. But you guys also tried wheat. Did you try that with irrigation or did you try to—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Oh yeah. We had nothing dryland. Everything was irrigated, everything we farmed.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">Franklin</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">: And how did the </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">wheat</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> do</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> besides that one awful year with the pressure cooker?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Well, you’d better expect over 100 bushel of wheat or—you know, I’m not as up on yields now as I was then, because</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> my son farms our operation</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> since my husband died. I always kid him I’m on a need-to-know basis. [LAUGHTER] I have to ask questions if I want to know—[LAUGHTER]—if I really want to know the nitty gritty about things, and then sometimes he gets sort of upset with me. So I’m saying 120 bushel—</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">120 bushel is not unheard of, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">nd over. Depending on the variety of wheat, you know. The year, the weather, everything.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">So you said that right now you’ve pretty much just reverted to planting hay now—growing hay.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">Didi</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">er</span>: Until </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">this past two years</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> the hay farmer</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">’</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">s in a world of hurt out there now after that port slowed down over in Tacoma. Sort of ruined the foreign markets. And then, too, our dollar’s been so strong, tho</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">se people that depended on—</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">I guess that were our markets, they went elsewhere when they weren’t getting their shipments. So you have to work to get those people back buying again. And there is hay stocked all over the basin. We’ve got hay from two years ago we haven’t sold.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: And this year we have had rain, rain, rain on about every cutting which makes it feeder hay. My son had an offer the other day of $60 a ton. You got $150 into it to break even.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: So you take your licks and walk on, hopefully, if you don’t get your financing cut off. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah. Did you spend a lot of time in nearby communities, in Eltopia? Were you involved in any organizations there, or social groups, or church groups or anything?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Oh, yeah. Yes. I belong to St. Paul Catholic church. We actually built that church, the people that </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">moved</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> in there.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah. The people of that area, we </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">built</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> the St. Paul Catholic church at Eltopia.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: How large was Eltopia when you moved there?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Oh, the town of Eltopia?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: [LAUGHTER] O</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">o</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">h, not very big. There had been a bank there once. There’d been—well, when we first moved in there and we had no refrigeration and I had a new baby, there was a </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span class="SpellingError SCX146332551">Streadwick</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> that opened a little store there. And he carried milk and bread, thank heavens, because I could buy milk from him. Because I couldn’t keep milk without it going sour for more than a day or so at a time.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: There was a who?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: A St</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">re</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">dwick. His name was </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">just Stredwick. There was a Stre</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">dwick family that owned a filling station on the old highway there. And Millie, she was a widow, but she had a pack of kids, and she was the switchboard operator in Eltopia. If you wanted to make a phone call in the beginning, you had to go to Millie’s house to make the telephone call. </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">Because</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> we had no phones.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Or if you received a call, they’d have to come out and tell you that somebody was trying to get ahold of you.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And how far away was that?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Well, about the same distance as getting the water. A little bit closer, but not much, because we had to go right into the town of Eltopia to get to her house. She lived in Eltopia.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: I would say there wasn’t more than 150 people, or less, in Eltopia per se. </span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Where did the children go to school?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: They started in Eltopia, my two oldest. But then we—they decided school districts. You either were going to go to Pasco or you were going to go Connell. We were—the dividing line was Fir Road, which was one more road to the south. Well, no, it’s more than one for me, but Eltopia West is t</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">he main road now that comes off of</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> 395. It’s o</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ne road over from Eltopia West—</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">F</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ir Road—</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">was the dividing line. If you lived on the left side of Fir Road, you went to North Franklin School District, which was Connell. If you lived on the other side</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> you went to Pasco. So we went to Connell. </span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Mesa—they built a grade school in Mesa, they built a grade school in Basin City. That’s all North Franklin. Then they had a grade school in Connell, then they built a junior high and a high school. So my kids all went through—finished. Some of them completely went through the North Franklin School District. The two oldest had a few years there in Eltopia. There actually was an old high school in Eltopia. But they closed it down, too. We used to have dances down there.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">Franklin</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">: Oh really?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: The floors went up, and the floors went down, but we had an orchestra that did the playing. In the middle of the music they’d just stop. [LAUGHTER] We</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">’ve</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> laughed about that.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wait, w</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">hy did they stop?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Just decided to stop! [LAUGHTER] And you’d be dancing away, all of the sudden the music just stopped. I don’t know. Probably had too much to drink. Everybody had to bring their own bottle, you know.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Really?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah, oh, ye</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">h</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And who put these dances on?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Well, we sort of had a—hmm, I don’t know. Don’t remember that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">Just—I don’t know—we didn’t have an association, particularly. It was just our local group around there decided, you know, like New Year’s Eve or something</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> is </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">about when</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">—it wasn’t all the time.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Was the high school being used at that time, or was it just kind of an empty—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: No,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> no,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> it was going downhill. And that’s what I said—the floors were warped because the roof had leaked.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">my</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">. Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah. And so you had to watch your step. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> I bet.</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> So were these adults-only dances?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yes, yes, yes. Yes, it was adults only.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: That’s great. That’s really interesting.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">We were involved—I had a 4-H club. Don coached Little League—yeah, Little League, down in Eltopia</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">. We had a team, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ecause our boys played on that. We were big boosters of Connell High School, because all our boys—Clint played—my one son played in the NFL for nine years. The other boy was the one we thought was going to be the NFL player. But he wanted to farm more than play football. He’s the one that’s farming my place now. But our boys all participated in sports up there, so we were</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> big</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> sports boosters. Don helped build the bleachers. The old—we used to have our games down there in the—</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">well</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">, it was in the town of Connell. Since then it’s all moved up by the high school. But he helped build the bleachers into the side of the hill. He had a trophy case built for them. And then the boys went to CBC, both Clint and Curt. And we donated there, the foundation or whatever it is. Still do—Clint still supports that.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Did you or your husband go to college?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Don did for a year. He was going to be an engineer. I went to college at night school for a while, but I never got a degree, no. I came out of a high school in Portland that you learned bookkeeping, </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">shorthand, and so when you graduated</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> you also had a degree—you had English and a</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> language and everything else—b</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ut you could go out and get a job.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, okay. Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">Didie</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">r</span>: And then they had Benson</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> at that time for the boys where they learned how to—you know, like shop and things like that. And then they did away with that; we don’t have those kind of things anymore. Big mistake. I think we should still have those type of—because some kids are just not college material.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: To be able to go out and work and do something when you come out of high school. Because kids nowadays, they need work.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right. To</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> have a trade or at least to have—maybe have post-high school schools that are geared for trade instead of—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah, instead of—because when you come out of high school now, what do you have? You don’t have a trade of any kind, or a skill of any kind. Except supposedly your brain, and then you got to go on to another four-year school, and you’re still—if you want to really amount to anything, that isn’t adequate now either. And then we wonder why we have such high debt for these kids that are—[LAUGHTER]—you know, trying to get a college education or get a trade or whatever.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah. Oh! How did you meet your husband?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Uh-oh. [LAUGHTER] Do I have to tell you the true story? [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Well if it’s</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> racy or</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> saucy</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> then yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Well—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: For the good of history.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Okay, well--</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: I’m just kidding. Whatever you’re comfortable with.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Well, every year in Portland at the beginning of</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> the</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> football season, they would have sort of a roundabout w</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">here each high school came</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> and play</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ed</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> a quarter or something against</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> another </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">one of the other teams. I had been a cheerleader at my high school. This i</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">s since I had graduated, and I’d</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> started to work. I went to</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> work at 16 for the Soil Conservation </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">Service</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> in Portland.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">really? O</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">kay. Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: So, my girlfriend and I decided that we were going to go to this celebration—the football thing—that night. So I took a bus and I got off the bus where I was to meet her. And Don and a friend were standing there on the corner. He was enrolled at the—is it University of Portland is the Catholic school down there, or Portland U? No, it’s University of Portland, yeah. Anyway, he’d just started college there. So he tried to strike up a conversation, and I—my mother told me never—[LAUGHTER]—Don’t do those kind of things. I’m just kidding. But anyway, I wouldn’t talk to him. I walked across the street to meet my </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">friend, and we had to walk back in front of him to get back on the bus to get to where we were going. He says, why don’t you let us give you a ride? And I said, no. I said, we’ll just take the bus. So we did. We got on the bus. So they ran around, got in their car, and they followed our bus over to the stadium. Later in the game, I went down and was sitting on the bench with my friends from my high school there. And around the corner walks Don. That was the beginning of the end. He said, well, as it turned out we had a mutual</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> acquaintance—</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">my girlfriend did. So we went to the dance at Portland University that night with them. </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">And that was </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">the end of me ever dating anybody</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> else. Next day, he called me and—[LAUGHTER] So. And it was ironic because my son, Clint, you know, played f</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">or Mouse</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> Davis down there, and years later he played in that stadium.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: [LAUGHTER] I call that sort of ironic coincidence, that years later we came back to the place where we actually engaged in a conversation that night. Anyway. So it was a pick-up, I guess you’d say.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah. Sounds like he was pretty persistent.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Well, he wasn’t very talkative. But I was impressed. He was pretty good-looking. [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">I liked what I saw. So anyway.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: That’s—aww. And was he drafted, then? You said he was in the Air Force.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">Didi</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">er</span>: Yeah, he was in the reserve.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: A</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">nd he got—it was the Korean situation, and he got called up</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">. So we were married just as he—right after he got called up, his commander was gracious enough to give him a </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">couple</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> of</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> days off to have a honeymoon for—what did we have? Three days or something, when it was supposed to be boot camp. He happened to then be stationed at the Portland—there in Portland, for almost a year. And then he got orders to go to Nashville, Tennessee. So we up and moved. I went with him. Didn’t have any children then. We went to Tennessee for less than a year, I think, before we came back. And when we came home, we went to Condon, Oregon and Don went to work for a wheat farmer there.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, okay. So he was drafted in Korea, but didn’t—he never—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> He never served overseas, no. He never had to serve overseas. He was a lineman—supposed to be his—whatever, what do they call it? His MO, or whatever? It was supposed to be—oh, I don’t know—what’s the second in command? I don’t know. Anyway, they found that he had been a telephone lineman at one time, so that’s what he ended up being, was a telephone lineman.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">Do you—when you were homesteading out there, did you have any run-ins or—well, not run-ins is the right word, but interactions with Native Americans who would have inhabited that area long before</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">? Did you ever see, or were you </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ever </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">aware </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">of--</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: No, there was nothing. The only thing, we found a couple of arrowheads on our place once. No. Some old sheep camps, we found some things in that, but there was no—no, there was no indication of any—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: From e</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">arlier </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">settlement days</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: No.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: How has farming changed over the years for you?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Oh, my gosh. Well, what are we talking here? ’54 to—</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">is that </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">60-what? ’62 years?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">60 years, y</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">eah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Phenomenal, I guess, would be my word. Equipment-wise. Everything now if possible is circles, for irrigation. Tractors are—how many times bigger should I say than what we started out with? My son owns a quad-</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span class="SpellingError SCX146332551">trac</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">, which—I don’t know, what are they? $280,000 or $300,000-some-odd and it’s mo</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">nstrous. You have GPS now; everything</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> is—you plant by that. I guess—I don’t really have a word to—I guess express how much it’s advanced. Planters are all—well, just like we planted some beans this year, trying to find out something else besides hay to plant. This guy just pulls into field we had with timothy hay, and you don’t have to disc, you don’t have to do anything. He j</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ust sets down, and he’s got</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> things that open it up to plant the seeds, so you don’t have to worry about the wind problem you used to. It used to be, we had horrendous winds and dirt. You’d plant a crop, and you’d pray that you didn’t get one of those winds or it’d be gone—the seed would be gone. A lot of replanting back in the old days. We could look towards block 15 and see this wall of dirt coming at us. Yeah. One of the windstorms hit 90 miles an hour here. It blew down the drive-in screen in Pasco. It blew the side out of a block building. And we were in that tent. My husband said, load the kids up, we’re going to town. We’re not going to be here when it goes down—if it goes down, is what he said. So we loaded up the kids, drove to town, spent the whole day in town. As the day—as the sun started to set, the wind went down and we headed back </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">out </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">there and didn’t know if there would be anything left of everything we owned in the world because it was all in that tent. And it was still standing.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> But he had a pretty hefty crossbeam—is that what you call it, the main deal at the top? But he said it put a permanent bow in it, though. That wind against that canvas. So he took that thing down and put up a four-by-six by himself. How he did that, I don’t know. But he says, not going to have that happen again.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: And then we had just a few incidences of some of the things that happened out there. We had a winter that first winter when we still in the tent. My husband was doing land-leveling. He got this D7 Cat and he was out working for other people, leveling their ground. That day, it was a beautiful day, that day. When he got off the Cat, he started home, and for some reason he turned around, and he drained that Cat. Because there was no antifreeze. We didn’t have antifreeze in it. That night, it dropped to 19 below. I don’t know—we’ve never, ever had that happen again. Don stayed up all night. We had a wood stove in that tent, and we had an oil stove. He had both of them cranked up as high as they would go.</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> The ne</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">xt morning, he reached over, and we had packing cases for cupboards. He reached over for the coffee pot, and when he got it, it was all slushy, after he—and it wasn’t that far away from the stove. [LAUGHTER] And sagebrush—he was burning sagebrush in the wood stove. That puts out a hot fire. So decided it was time to move. And I was working at the Bureau then, so we were entitled to one of their Quonset huts down there.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: So we picked up and moved that day. And it was wonderful not to have a roof flapping in the breeze, and it had running water, and I had wall—baseboard heaters, and they paid the bill. You could be as warm and toasty as you wanted. So I was in seventh heaven. [LAUGHTER] We lived there until—well, then I got—while I was working there, I got pregnant with Curt. And the Bureau wrote us a little letter, saying, you have not proved up on your land. You had to put in 12 months out of 18 to establish residency. And said, if you don’t move back on your unit, you’ll forfeit it. We didn’t have a house, didn’t have anything. So went to town, and started tearing down—we called them Navy homes. I don’t know. Somebody said they were Victory homes or something. They had a lot of them in Pasco, they had a lot in Kennewick. He and his dad went in there and they tore—we got enough money from the bank to tear down a section of that housing, and used all the materials out of that for our house. When we moved in, </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">the eaves weren’t boxed in, the sub-floor was the roof, like, slats. So the dirt just settled between the slats. And we had no running water again, because we did</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">n’t </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">have a well. </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">And </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">I found a rattlesnake in my closet one day.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">my</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: [LAUGHTER] Came home from town, and I walked in to take off my blouse and hang it up in the closet. And I heard this noise, and I thought—out of the corner of my eye—I thought, there’s a snake. But it had curled up on top of a suitcase. We had no bathroom—we had an outhouse. Had no bathroom, and he found his way into our bedroom there, and the light—the sun was coming through the bedroom window, and he was sunning himself. He’d crawled up on this suitcase in an old army hat that Don had laying on top of the suitcase. And he was telling me, you’d better back off. I screamed, I said, there’s a rattlesnake in here! And Don says—he didn’t believe me, he thought I was having pipe dreams. He told everybody afterwards I made a new door out of the bedroom, which I did not. But anyway, he grabbed a weed fork and killed it. Believe me, we stepped out of bed gingerly for a while, thinking where you f</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ind one, you usually find two. But w</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">e could see where he’d come up through the—we had the sewer pipe laid for the bathroom that was not in. And the kids had been out there playing in the dirt with their trucks and stuff. He had a piece of tar paper thrown up against it and some dirt</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> that he’d</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> thrown up a</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">gainst it. Well, they’d knocked that</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> down an</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">d that</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> snake found that pipe, and he decided that was a nice cool place to be in. Yeah. We had quite a—in fact, we have a big rock bluff behind my farm</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> unit there to the east. And t</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">he people at the Bureau called that Rattlesnake Mountain. In the spring, they’d go out there, and when they’d come out of their dens they’d kill a lot of snakes. So we encountered rattlesnakes off and on quite a bit.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: We were pretty worried with our kids that they might get bitten. We actually went to town and got a kit—not the normal kind—it had a hypodermic needle or whatever. Whether I could have used it [LAUGHTER] I don’t know. We had to keep it in the refrigerator. But just in case, because we </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">were</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">a long ways</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> away from a doctor.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> But anyway, didn’t happen.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: That’s good.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>; Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And now how—when, roughly, was your house built?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Well, it was built in stages. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: When did it—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Well, right as Curt was born, which was 1957. ’57. </span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And is that still the same—is that house still out there?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: It is. Only we’ve added on to it. You’d </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">never</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> know what part of it is built out of.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: It’s all bricked.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah. I have a fairly nice home. It’s nothing luxurious or anything, but it’s very comfortable. </span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">Franklin</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">: And you have roads out there now?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Oh</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">, yeah. [LAUGHTER] Yeah, w</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">e’d better have. But that was something, when you didn’t have any roads, I’ll tell you. They were putting them in, but they were just the bases. I remember one day, our neighbors across—that turned out to be our neighbors across the road on Holly Drive—we saw this truck with all of their stuff loaded on it pull in over there. We thought, wow, are we getting a neighbor here? But they pulled in and dropped off a bunch of stuff and then took off again. So we jumped in our car and we followed them to find out who they were, and were they </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">going</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> to be our neighbors, and </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">whatever. Because we were excited that we </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">had</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> another human being that was going to be that close to us. That was Johnsons. Were our neighbors for years and years. They both since have passed away. Don and I were probably eight to ten years younger than the majority of the people that settled out there, because they were World War II veterans, many of them. So we’re losing them one by one. </span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah, most of them are—well, just lost one down the road here. He was 93, I guess. Year before last. He was</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> a bomber pilot in World War II. Flew 70-some-odd missions, and made it through.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: T</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">hat’s really incredible odds.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah. Yeah, it is. I did his eulogy at the church, and—those guys really—anyway, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">So working out at Hanford, you </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">would have been privy to—you would hav</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">e known what was produced there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> Did you ever feel—how did you feel about making your living off the land so close to Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: I never worried about it. Some people tried to prove, or think that they got thyroid cancer, whatever. But I—working in the monitoring, I knew they were monitoring the milk. They monitored</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> milk, anybody that</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> was dairying out there. Plus, they had instrumentation across the river. They were monitoring the river itself. However, you never knew what the figures were. I mean, I—yeah. But I really never worried about it. But maybe out of ignorance, in a sense. Not really, it’s not like, I guess, Chernobyl or something, where you had—although you had reactors out there. But a lot of them were not even active at that time, even. But there were a few, wasn’t there</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> the</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">—was it Fast Flux? I don’t know. I worked on that project, trying to save that Fast Flux Facility.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Really? So in the ‘80s, then?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah. Who was the commissioner? Yeah, I got involved in that. That was a travesty that they ever destroyed that, simply for the fact that medical isotopes—they had no idea what they could have engineered from that reactor that would have helped in the medical field. The dream was the guys that knew—he since has died, too. He moved to Portland. That if you had cancer, you’d go in, and you’d sit down, and they’d do, I guess, an injection. Sort of, probably, like chemo now, but in 15 minutes you’d be out of there. The possibility was there to make medical isotopes. If you know what medical isotopes are. I’m not a scientist, but because of the way the Fast Flux—it was one of a kind in the world, I think.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Mm-hmm. How did you become involved in the committee to save it?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: I don’t remember who got me into that. [LAUGHTER] I don’t remember. Claude Oliver, for one, was active in that. Wanda Munn, who is still alive, and she’s still—yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah, I’ve—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: I know Wanda and I talk to her </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">quite</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> often and she was very active in that.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah. She was very supportive.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: I just went down to the office and did what I usually do, you know. Write thank-you letters for donations and filing and that kind of stuff. But I was very interested; I thought it was a very good project that our government—all the money that had been expended thrown down the toilet, to put it bluntly. I see in the paper they’re going to use one of the warehouses they built, though, to store the sludge or something. Did you see that?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: I didn’t. I do know that our collection that we manage—the Department of Energy</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">’s</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> Hanford Collection, wh</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ich is a historic collection of art</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ifacts and archives gathered on</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">site that document history, and that’s actually stored in one of the Fast Flux Facility warehouses.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Is it?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah. We’re moving everything out, but I go up there once or twice a we</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ek to do work on the collection, yes. It’s one of those warehouses that was built for Fast Flux.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: I hadn’t read about storage of waste.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah, sludge or something. So they can—I don’t know—something ab</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">out the tanks, they can put </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span class="SpellingError SCX146332551">it</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> in there? Something that had been built for the Fast Flux reactor. So at least maybe something’s being—[LAUGHTER]—what should I say? Salvaged. But anyway.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span>Franklin</span></span></span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">Um, what do you recall about living in the Cold War—during the Cold War era? Especially—was there any sense of danger </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">or even pride living so close at</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> Hanford or working at Hanford, given its role in the US nuclear weap</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ons arsenal during the Cold War?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Well, all that was sort of over with when I was out there. No, it was a job, and it was money. [LAUGHTER] Better money than I could make anywhere else. And the people were gre</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">t to work with, and they were always interested in what we were doing out there. You know, you would have thought being of the scientific community and whatever—completely different ideas than being a farmer. But yo</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">u</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> know what? It’s interesting—there’s always a bit of farmer in everybody. Have you ever realized that? I mean, guys particularly.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Well, I grew up on a farm.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: I know that’s what you said, but it seems like no matt</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">er what they’re line of work is</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> or whatever, there’s always this curiosity about farming and what to do and whatever. I used to have a lot of questions. They always treated me very well. I really hated to quit out there. Because I enjoyed the people. I enjoyed getting away from the farm, and the worries and the whatever. I could go to work and have a different scenario for the day, you know?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right, right. So when you were out there, you—all of the children were with your husband?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: No, I hired a babysitter. She had to come to the house, because I couldn’t get five kids up—I had to leave at like seven in the morning, something, to be to work. We started earlier than 8:00. What was it? I don’t know what time I had to leave, but she had to come to the house and get the kids dressed and whatever. </span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Was that a—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Don was not a babysitter. [LAUGHTER] He had better things to do, you know. No, I had to hire someone to come in. And sometimes you wondered if—that’s when I finally decided that I needed to quit and come </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">home</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">, because there’s a fine line there about whether you’re really—how much are you contributing here, when you have to pay someone to look after your children, cost of getting to work, better clothing—had to dress better—you know, all these things you got to factor in. It was better when I di</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">d come home, because my husband—he liked conversation and people. So he sometimes got sid</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">etracked at</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> the neighbors</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">’</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> and stuff when I thought he should have been home doing some things. So when I finally came home for good, it was better. Things improved. [LAUGHTER] In my eyes, anyway.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Well</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> it was lonely out there if you were—he just liked, as all farmers do, they like to talk a lot. They still get together. We’ve had some restaurants up there at the corner, and that was the gathering place every morning, the coffee shop and all the </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span class="SpellingError SCX146332551">BSing</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> that goes on. They’ve come and gone. So now we have a small Mr. Quick’s up there, and some of them still meet up there. Yeah. Got to compare notes, you know.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, yeah.</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: A lot of things to talk about, I’m sure.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yup.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: How—you mentioned, especially when you were growing some of the other crops, maybe not the hay, but like the corn and potatoes—how—did you rely on migrant labor at all? Or have you noticed--?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: We did in asparagus, but they really—the families we had I don’t think were migrant. They came from California every year. We furnished housing for them. When amnesty was declared, that’s when we tore out the asparagus. The next year, it was—well, they got better jobs, they stayed in California, they didn’t come back. The people we were getting were not—well, that’s when they also made the deal that if—before, you paid</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> by what they cut a day. </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">I guess you’d call it piecework. They could make good money. But then they said, okay, if they don’t cut enough to equal so much an hour—and I forget what the minimum wage was</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> or whatever it was—then you’ve got to pay them that. So you had to keep track of both things. Well, then you started getting people that would start at the top of the road, and they’d get to the bottom of the road, and then they’d sit down on their box or whatever they had down there and smoke a cigarette. They didn’t care if they made—yeah. They got paid so much no matter what. The caliber of people changed drastically. We got a crew leader or something out of Texas to bring us people, and that was not good. So we just decided to tear it out.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: That’s when you went to a more mechanized--?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Well, yeah. Just planted other crops. When we lost the sugar beet industry here, that was hard, because that was a very, very dependable cash crop. That hurt.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: What happened to the sugar beet industry?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Well, they decided to pull the factory at Moses Lake out of here. So we had no place to ship the sugar beets. </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">I think, took acres and stuff back to Idaho. So we lost our sugar beet industry here. </span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Is there anything that I haven’t talked about that you’d like to talk about?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Well, I don’t know. I don’t know what it would be, except that I think at the end of my composition in that book that I gave you there on the block, I just said I was so grateful for the opportunity that we had here. I think this probably was the last—what do I want to say—the last land that was opened up for development, like the Columbia Basin, the last project. We raised five great kids. They learned how to work. I’m proud of all of them. I just felt, being a city girl, my mother-in-law particularly didn’t think I’d ever make it, but I did. [LAUGHTER] It was a great opportunity. A lot of people didn’t stay. There were a lot of women that—it was hard.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: It was hard out there. We had a couple of suicides. You’d get—yeah. I don’t know what else to tell you. </span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Did your parents stay in Portland?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: My dad had died early in life. My mother, yes. I was an only child.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: She </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">lived in Portland, yes. And-</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">-</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: What did she—oh, sorry.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: That’s okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: What did she think about—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Oh. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: --</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">your</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> going out to homestead in—I’m sure</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> she</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> thought it was—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Not too much.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: --kind of the middle of nowhere.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Not too much.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Did she ever come out?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Oh, yes. </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">Oh, yeah. She came up. She always came up whenever I had a baby and helped me. In some of the rougher years, so she knew what was actually happening. Of course, you know how you feel about your kids. You don’t like to see them—think that they’re being—what should I say—deprived. [LAUGHTER] And Don’s folks were very helpful. They—his dad came up and helped us many a time work on the house. She’d come up and do the cooking, since I was working. I’d come home to a meal, which was great. She made the best cinnamon rolls. My kids have never forgotten that.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: [LAUGHTER] Yeah, she—anyway. Yeah, they—we also were in sheep. I guess I forgot to say that. We </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">all </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">had a—I used to do the lambing.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">Franklin</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">: Oh, wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah, we bought a bunch of old ewes, which was not the best idea. But that’s all—his dad and Don went together and bought this bunch of old ewes. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">so </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">we lambed—</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">I think </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">we had lambs</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> for</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">—or we had sheep </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">for—what? I don’t know, maybe five, six years. We never were much of a livestock people. My husband, when he was young, his dad went to some auction or something, came home with some milk cows, and Don got the job of milking the cows. He says, I’m never having a milk cow, and we never did. [LAUGHTER] We had a guy actually delivering milk out to the farm, come to think of it. And he left a big supply everyday with the boys I had.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow, yeah, I bet.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: I ended up with four boys and one daughter. My daughter’s a school teacher here in Kennewick. Has been for umpteen years. And Brett works at Battelle, my youngest. Curt and Clint and Chris—Chris is my oldest—they all are in the farming deal out there. </span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And Clint’s a local politician, right?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Oh, yes. Yeah. He thinks he has to try to make a difference. But anyway, it’s a rough go. But he’s determined—stubborn. [LAUGHTER] No, I admire him for his, I guess, bravery, because it is—you do have to be brave. You take a lot of flak, I’m going to tell you, and a lot of—after he loses, which he has, takes him a while to recover. It’s a rejection, is what it is.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah. That’s understandable.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: And then he takes a bit to regroup, and turns around and comes back for another go at it. And I tell him, I said, I don’t understand you, Clint. [LAUGHTER] Anyway. </span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Well, great, well, thank you so much, Alice.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: I probably talked your leg off.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Nope, my legs are still here.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> Well, I don’t know what else I could</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> tell you.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Did anyone else have any questions?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Oh, I could—I guess I should have told you, I did a lot of tractor work. I was not just a housewife. I ran almost every piece of equipment, except I never ran the stacker or—but I drove tractor. Did cultivating. Never rode a—</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">I never </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ran a potato harvester, of course, but I worked on enough of them sorting potatoes. You know when you’re digging in the field? I’ve eaten a lot of dirt in my day. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">Tom Hungate</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">:</span> Did you ever notice a difference, was there a boys’ club that </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">you</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> kind of had to work through? Or was it just you were a good worker and s</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">o you were accepted as a worker on the farm?</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> Or there weren’t enough people even to judge you as a woman out there working on a farm?</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah. Most all the women out there—not every woman worked in the field, but the only one that I worried about judging me was my husband. [LAUGHTER] Which, sometimes—[LAUGHTER]—I would pull something that wasn’t—I mean</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> do something that wasn’t too good. We had a big windstorm one night, and I thought I had to go down—we did have wheel lines at the far end of our place, down in—well, it sloped down pretty readily there. And those wheel lines, if you don’t block them</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> will take off in the wind and tear them all up. So the guys headed</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> down there, and I thought I had to go down and help. Well, the first thing I did was run over the pipe that hooked into the main line. [LAUGHTER] I got told, why don’t you just go to the house? Because I hadn’t helped the situation any. [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Emma</span> Rice: Another thing</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> I was kind of thinking, did you </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">have anything else to add about being</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> kind of a working mom in the 1950s and ‘60s—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rice</span>: --to watch ov</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">er your own</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> [INAUDIBLE]</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Well, funny you ask that question, because I have granddaughters now that are—well, I have two granddaughters that are CPAs. One just moved—she was working out here on the Project, and she just moved to South Carolina. And I look back on the days when I was working, and they never come again. You’ve los</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">t some of the years of your kid</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">s</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">’</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> life. As things happen, when they learn—when they walk, when they—first time they do something. And not being—and I remember I came home, and I was so tired. I gave my best at work</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> and there wasn’t a whole lot left over at the end of the day. And I know I was cranky. [LAUGHTER] And I just think sometimes—I’m sort of like my granddaughter, I kept wanting to—each time I got a promotion, it was—how do I want to put that? Not a feather in my cap, but made me feel worthy—more worthwhile, or whatever. </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">I enjoyed working, I admit that. But I just look back on it now as—I’m going to be 85—August. I think, was it really that important? And I wish, maybe, some of our younger generation had the benefit, maybe, of my years later on the road. That’s just my—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rice</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: But I have thought about that a lot. Whether I would have done it any differently at the time, because we needed the money. But sometimes we get—we forget what’s most important in our life.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: I agree.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rice</span>: Yeah, great.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">what we might do now is—we’ll maybe</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> have </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">you</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> kind of narrate some of these, some of the items you brought along.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: Where you go across it, when I was—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: But with these—this is hay we’ve laid down, and I thought </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">it</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> was quite—yeah, there. I thought it was sort of a neat view of how things look now, comp</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">ared to that other slide you’ve got there.</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right. Yeah, no, that’s really—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Didier</span>: So I don’t know if you want me to </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">bring</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> in </span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551">that</span><span class="TextRun SCX146332551"> picture or not, so you—</span><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX146332551">
<p class="Paragraph SCX146332551"><span class="EOP SCX146332551"> </span></p>
</div>
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
01:10:43
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
300 Area
Fast Flux Test Facility (FFTF)
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1954-2016
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1954-1960
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Didier, Clint
Didier, Don
Didier, Curt
Didier, Chris
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Alice Didier
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Eltopia (Wash.)
Connell (Wash.)
Agriculture
Irrigation
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
07/12/2016
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-08-12: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Alice Didier conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Relation
A related resource
<a href="http://hanfordhistory.com/collections/show/15">Alice Didier Oral History Metadata</a>
300 Area
Connell (Wash.)
Eltopia (Wash.)
Fast Flux Test Facility (FFTF)
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F1d5969a330cb013c8521d026d6a68ce7.jpg
ff47ac81d5d3ce2033875e79427a831e
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fa095b818f272c3b2d8dd709637b8ca33.mp4
f43df0e60028bddc39358f58d28dc8cc
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Donna Jackson
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX97109745">
<p class="Paragraph SCX97109745"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"><span class="SpellingError SCX97109745">Jackson_Donna</span></span><span class="EOP SCX97109745"> </span></strong></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX97109745"><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX115902601"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX115902601">Robert Bauman:</span></span></span><span class="TextRun SCX115902601"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX115902601"> Okay. </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX115902601"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX115902601">Why don't you go ahead and state your name first.<br /></span></span><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><br />Donna Jackson:</span> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">My name is Donna Jackson.</span><span class="EOP SCX97109745"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX97109745"><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman:</span> Okay. And my name's Robert Bau</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">man and Donna Jackson will be telling us some stories. Today is July 16, 2013 and</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">this is being conducted on the campus of Washington State University Tri-Cities. S</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">o at this point I'll turn over to you Donna, and go ahead and tell your stories.</span><span class="EOP SCX97109745"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX97109745"><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Jackson:</span> Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">. I'm going to tell you a story about John and Mary. They and their four kids lived in the Midwest. They had</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">family working at Hanford and came west to join them in 1946. Now when there is a housing shortage, private</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">citizens try to fill the need and make some money. John and Mary found housing at what is now called Columbia</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Park. A man named </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"><span class="SpellingError SCX97109745">Garst</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> had a cherry orchard and he put up tents and shacks to rent.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Mr. Paulson had a farmhouse just west of that and he divided his land into Paulson</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">’s P</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">lats and built small houses</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">on it to rent or sell. The businesses that were in that area at that time were Wild Bill's Garage, Sherry's Groceries,</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> and</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">there was a drive-in theater and a tavern. John and Mar</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">y bought one of Paulson's three-</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">room houses and they</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">bought three extra lots for a total of $1,600. Actually, it was a two bathroom house. There were three rooms, plus</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">a small bathroom with a shower stool and sink, but built on the outside of the house was a small concrete block</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">washroom with a laundry tub, space for a washing machine and a toilet. You had to go outside to get to it, but</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">actually this turned out to be quite convenient.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">When more of their family arrived in the area, they set up tents and they had a toilet available for their use, and it</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">was handy for the kids, too, because they didn't have to come in the house. There were about eight houses in</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> Paulson’s P</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">lats and several of the families living there wanted to grow a garden and tried, but it just didn't work. The</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">canal was south of them and so much water seeped into their yard that nothing would grow.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Now John and Mary lived there two years before the big flood of 1948. Being right on the river they were flooded</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">out. They moved into a tent on what is now Highway 12. Each morning they would get up and look over to see</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">what things were like where their house was. One morning, they found their very own icebox had floated loose</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">and right up to the bank below where they were camped. John fished it out, cleaned it up, and they could use it</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">again.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">During this time, they would go to a </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"><span class="SpellingError SCX97109745">washateria</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">. They would wash their clothes and hang them on the bushes to</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">dry. Mary would rent an iron long enough to press three shirts, which would get John through a week's work.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Nothing else would be ironed because of the cost of renting the iron.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Now w</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">hen they were there in Paulson’s P</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">lats, there wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">s ice delivery for their icebox. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">ut there wasn't any ice</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">delivery in town because nobody was allowed to go into town, no deliveries of any kind. As Mary said, they just</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">didn't, but they were afraid people would blab about what was going on.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Well the water finally receded and they went out to check their house. There were big holes in the walls, the wood</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">flooring had come off and washed down the river, presumably into the Pacific Ocean. The kitchen floor didn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">come loose </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">because the wood stove was heavy enough to keep it in place. Mary's dad and the Red Cross came</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> to help</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> put in new wallboard and flooring so they could move back into their house.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Another problem during the time of the flood was getting to work at Hanford. At that time, the bridge across the</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Yakima was down at river level, and during the flood, no one could cross it. John had a ride that would take him</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">going up across the Horse Heaven Hills and around. One day, he missed his ride and had to fly to work. He</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">walked a mile south to the airport, and for $3 could catch a plane that would take him across the river. A shuttle</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">would meet the plane and then take the folks on out to work.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">When John and Mary got back into their house, they had a problem with drinking water. They had a 100 foot well</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">and after the flood, the water was not drinkable. John pumped the well out and poured a gallon of Clorox down it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">He repeated the process nine times before the water was safe to drink.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">One weekend</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> the family went on a road trip the Yakima. Mary left her purse at a sto</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">p and they didn't miss it for ten </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">miles. They were absolutely sick when they figured it out. They had to go back and get it since all their ration</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">coupons were in it, as well as their money. It added another 20 miles to their trip, and they didn't think they had</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">enough gas to get home and the gas stations wouldn't sell to them after hours.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Well, they went back, got her purse, and headed to Richland and sure enough, they ran out of gas. They sat there</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">bundled up and cold and finally a trucker stopped. He was going to get gas someplace because they would sell to</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">trucks after hours and he said he'd come back and help them. When he finally returned, he said give me your</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">container an</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">d I'll get you some gas. Well there</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> was a problem, they didn't have a container. The only thing they could</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">think of was John's rubber boots. The trucker put 10 boots full of gas in their car and they made it home.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">One of Mary's </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">friends, who lived in Richland p</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">roper, took in bo</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">rders and cooked meals for three people that lived</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">in Sunnyside. They went home on weekends, but part of the deal was that they gave her part of their ration</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">coupons. This friend also had a small coupe to drive. There were shortages of everything, and when someone</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">heard there was a line somewhere, everyone got excited. They never knew what would be for sale, but it didn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">matter. She would drive through the neighborhood tooting her horn and the women would come out and jump into</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">the car. Sometimes some would even hang onto the running board. They would get in line, and then find out what</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">was for sale. It didn't matter, they would buy it and if they didn't need it, their friends did.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">What is now Columbia Center was a garbage dump. When you shop there today, you sometimes think it still is.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">One family gathering place was Howard Amon Park, which had a swimming pool. The family would have a picnic</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">ready, and when Dad got home from work, they would head for the park. Mom would stake out a picnic spot and</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Dad and kids would head for the pool. They would wait in line, oh, 40 to 50 minutes. You could be in the pool for</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">30 minutes, and then everybody got out and a n</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">ew group got in. Obviously, there</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> were more people than would fit</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">in the pool. The community celebrated Richland Days on Labo</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">r Day weekend for a few years. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">his change</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">d</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> to</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Atomic Frontier Days with parades and celebrations, and then this was combined to make the Benton Franklin</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">County Fair.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">In 1949, the government was building the dam at Umatilla and they condemned the land in the Columbia Park</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">area and bought everyone out. John and Mary were able to get a three bedroom prefab in Richland and they paid</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">$37 a </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">month rent. In their block on Snow</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> Street, the government paid for everyt</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">hing but the rent. The trash tru</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">cks</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">came right to your back door where the garbage cans were in a little shed and took them from there. There was</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> one lawn</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">mower for the block, a reel-type push mower, not that there was much gas. There was one phone</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">outside on a pole for the block. The housewives could call housing for mousetraps, they were brought out and</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">baited. Then you called housing to collect the traps and the mice.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">When they bought their ranch house</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> the monthl</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">y payment was huge, $76. It was</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> nearly double what their rent had been</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">and they didn't know if they could afford it. The house cost $10,500 and if you committed to stay there </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">for a</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">certain length of time, the purchase price went down $800. They gladly made that commitment.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">When there was a wedding, you gave a lot of thought to what would make a nice and useful gift. At one particular</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">wedding, Mary and a friend with together and bought a nice pair of salad tongs. Then to make it more special,</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Mary wrote a poem to g</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">o with the gift. “</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Life is a salad, carrots for sunshine, onions for tears, cucumbers and</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">celery for peace through the years, tomatoes the acid that sometimes make way into the tranquility of the day,</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">radishes and peppers for garnish and frills, next comes the lettuce for paying the bills. Toss together with love for</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> the dressing. M</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">ay your bowl of salad have God's richest blessing.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">” </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Now you remember John and Mary had to promise to live in the house for a few years to get a reduced price, they</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">lived there the rest of their lives.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Then I have another story about Dick and Liz.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Dick and Liz lived in Tennessee and Dick worked construction. This work provided a nomadic way of life for this</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">family and their three small children. Dick would get a job, the family would pack up and move to the newest</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">location. As soon as they could find a place to live, Dick would be off to work. It was Liz's job to settle the family,</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">locate the grocery stores, the church, and make friends with the neighbors. They would stay six months to a year</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">and then they would move to another job. They worked in Nebraska, Oklahoma, Michigan, and Tennessee.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Liz was tired of moving around, she had a dream. She dreamt of a yard where she could grow flowers, she</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">dreamt of living in one place for the rest of her life, not starting over every few months. Well, Dick went to</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Memphis one day and when he got home he showed her his train ticket to Hanford, Washington. He had been</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">given a job on a construction crew at Hanford and they gave them a train ticket to get there. He and Liz talked and</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">the next day he got on the train for Washington </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">State</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">. When he arrived in Pasco, he was met at the train station</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">and given a ride directly to the job site and put to work.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Well</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> Liz saw her dream of a home and permanence fly out the window. Again she had to make travel plans.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Where on earth was Hanford, what would be there, where would they live, would they have schools, would there</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> be any kind of civilization? Washington S</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">tate was 3,000 miles away. Well</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> Liz didn't question the arrangements, her</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">place was with her family and her husband was the provider. She would go where he was working. Liz made</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">arrangements to bring the children out to Hanford. She had to make choices, what she could take with her and</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">what she had to leave behind.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">She had a friend who worked for the railroad and he helped her as </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">she packed her linens and their </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">dishes and</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">clothes. One large item she couldn't leave behind</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> was her treadle sewing machine. S</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">he needed it for making and</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">mending clothes. Her friend from the railroad helped her to get her belongings shipped, and then took her and the</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">children to the station and put them on the train for this place, clear across the country, called Hanford. The trains</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">were used both for civilian passengers and for military transport, they were crowded with soldiers. Before Liz left,</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">her friend took her aside and warned her not have anything to do with the soldiers on the train, it might not be</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">safe.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Liz got on the train and was surrounded by soldiers. Many were just teenagers, 17 or 18 and very homesick.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Others were young family men who had left their wives and children behind. They were delighted to see Liz and</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">her children, and they couldn't do enough for them. The trip w</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">as much easier than anticipated—</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">until they neared</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">their destination. The train came across the Blue Mountains and was nearing Pendleton, Oregon when it stopped</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">in the middle of nowhere. Was this Hanford? No, but there was a train derailed in front of them, they could go no</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">further.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">They sat on the train for eight hours. Even though it was October, the passenger car was soon stifling since the</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">noon-day sun was glaring down on them. People opened the train windows and soon they were covered with dust</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">and soot. Finally, the track was cleared away and they got the Pendleton, but the train to Pasco was gone.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Liz didn't know how they'd get the rest of the way or even where Pasco was from Pendleton. She didn't know how</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">she coul</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">d get in touch with her husband;</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> she didn't have a cellphone, of course. The passengers were told there</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">was a school bus about </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">ready to take the kids home from school and they could get to Umatilla on that. Their train</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">tickets would be honored.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Liz wrote out </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">a telegram to Dick and asked a p</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">orter to send it for her and she handed him $0.50. He said, not</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">enough, and reached over and took $1.00 out of her hand, and then he never sent the telegram. Well</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> Liz and the</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">kids were first in line to get on the school bus and then were told they had to go in and buy tickets. They went in</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">the depot and they were </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">told their train tickets were okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> after all, but they were now</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> last in line to get on the bus. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">ut they did get on. They climbed on the bus with schoolkids, Liz carrying the baby.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">The bus was packed to capacity, but a man who had a seat stood and let Liz sit down. As a school children were</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">dropped off, seats became available. Liz's kids </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">thought they were going to Kenny-</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">wick and the school children all</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">laughed at that and taught them the name of the town. They got to Umatilla and were eventually put on a bus to</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Pasco.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Well, Dick hadn't got</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> a</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">ny</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> telegram, but had heard about the bus situation and was there to meet them and Liz</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">wondered where they were going to sleep that night. Imagine her relief when Dick had told her he had just that</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">day got a three bedroom prefab for his family and it was furnished. The furniture was minimal, but functional.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">There wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">s one double bed and the necessary number of sing</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">le beds for the children, there was a table and</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> six</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">chairs, a couch and a chair, a stove and an icebox. The only linen was one comforter for the double bed. There</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">were no curtains, no trees, no grass, no flowers, but you know</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> it really didn't matter. They were in a house, they</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">were together again as a family. They went to bed that night, the children were covered with their coats and Dick</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">and Liz used the comforter, and the next day things got much better.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">All the things she had shipped arrived. They had dishes and pans and linens and clothes and even her sewing</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">machine. Soon there were curtains at the window, trees, grass, and flowers took while longer. They were cared</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">for in their little house. If the house needed painting, it was painted for them. If the furniture broke, it was replaced.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">If the light bulbs burned out somebody came and changed them.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Dick's job was to work construction. Liz's job was to care for her husband and family. Everything they did was as a</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">family. Neighbors </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">would come over in the evenings;</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> they</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">’d</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> put the ch</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">ildren to bed</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> and play pinochle</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">. One night</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">they decided to go out to a movie so they asked a neighbor to stay with the children, and Dick and Liz went to</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">their first movie in Hanford.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">The first scene in the movie was of a fire burning in a fireplace, and that scene is etched in Liz's mind today. She</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">can't remember anything else about the movie. Now their house didn't have a fireplace, but all she could see was</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">their house on fire. She spent the entire movie worrying about her family and just knew her house would be gone</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">when they got home. Well, her house and children were just fine, but she really didn't want to go to any movies</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">after that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Few people had cars, and the Richland bus system was free and everyone used the buses. When some of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">mothers wanted a</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> chance to clean house without children underfoot they used the bus system. They would put</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">the kids on the bus and let them ride</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> to the end of the route and back home</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> so they could cleanup house and maybe</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">have a cup of coffee.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Well they started going to the church and the second time they went, Liz was asked to teach Sunday school.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> She agreed</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> and taught Sunday school most of the time for the next 45 years. One day she went to call on</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">someone who had visited their church. There was a </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">friendly Great D</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">ane in the yard and when she knocked on the</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">door, he came and stood patiently beside her.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">When the lady of the house invited her in, the gigantic dog walked in the house with her. He went in the kitchen</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">area and curled up in the smallest area as a Great Dane can curl up in. After the visit, Liz started to leave and the</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">owner of the house said don't forget your dog. Liz</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">'s reply was, that's not my dog;</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> I though</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">t</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> he was your dog. Well</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">, </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">they shooed the dog outside and he wandered down the street until he came to his own home. There are stories</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">of people not being able to find the right house when they come home. I expect the dog knew his house, he just</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">wanted to meet the neighbors.</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Liz's dream had come true. She had a house and some permanence. She did have to </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">move one more time, but</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">that was only a couple miles north to a ranch house. She had lots of flowers in her yard, she raised her children</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">and has been part of the same church family for 45 years. Dick passed away a few years ago, but Liz is still</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">comfortable in her home.</span><span class="EOP SCX97109745"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX97109745"><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman:</span> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">That's great.</span><span class="EOP SCX97109745"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX97109745"><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Jackson:</span> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">Those are my stories</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">—</span><span class="EOP SCX97109745"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX97109745"><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman:</span> Thank you.</span><span class="EOP SCX97109745"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX97109745"><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Jackson: </span> --f</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">rom friends who grew up here.</span><span class="EOP SCX97109745"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX97109745"><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman:</span> </span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">I t</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">hink that's great to just end it there.</span><span class="EOP SCX97109745"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX97109745"><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Jackson:</span> Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">.</span><span class="EOP SCX97109745"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX97109745"><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman:</span> I don’t--asking questions I don't think would--</span><span class="EOP SCX97109745"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX97109745"><span class="TextRun SCX97109745"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Jackson:</span> Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX97109745">.</span><span class="EOP SCX97109745"> </span></p>
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Bit Rate/Frequency
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251 kbps
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:21:10
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Donna Jackson
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Donna Jackson conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
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Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-06-06: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
4/16/2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/format
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford(Wash.)
Pasco(Wash.)
Richland(Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Richland (Wash.)
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F82c04966c9ad4d75be52520235b0f436.jpg
0cfd3eabf5f6f11bc4ae97cf18f78000
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F5ac81b95ffc5c268e001b40efe232954.mp4
912843de88d1ba96be6a1ee7dfb001cd
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Elizabeth Gladden
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX227730302">
<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span class="SpellingError SCX227730302">Gladden_Elizabeth</span></span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></strong></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: Elizabeth Gladden. Capital</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> E-L-I-Z-A-B-E-T-H. Gladden. G-L-A-D-D-E-N.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Great. Thank you.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">The first year I was there, I was a </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span class="SpellingError SCX227730302">Feemster</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">. I was unmarried. And then we got married this second year. So</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> my </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">maiden name was </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span class="SpellingError SCX227730302">Feemster</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">. So the Social Security people told me to keep the F. O</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">riginally my middle initial was </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">an E. But to keep the F of the maiden name to keep their records straight.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Sure. Right. And how did you spell your maiden name?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">F-E-E-M-S-T-E-R.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">. Great. Thank you. All </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">right. And my name is Robert Bau</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">man. And we're conduct</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ing this oral history interview </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">on July 7, 2014, on the campus of Washington State University</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> Tri-Cities. So I g</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">uess let's start with maybe how </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">you found out about</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">what were you doing before the war, maybe? And how you</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> found out about an opportunity </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">to teach at Heart Mountain.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">. As I said, Pearl Harbor is the one that started it all. And from there, the Ar</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">my thought that the Japanese on </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">the west coast would be a danger. And they wanted them moved. And we found out la</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ter that that wasn't true, that they really weren't a danger, that </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">California just wanted the Japanese out, and this was</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> a good opportunity to get them out. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And I was teaching in Nebraska when Pearl Harbor came along. And then I finished</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> that year, and the next year I </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">moved to a town called Osceola in Nebraska, which was a little better opportunit</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">y. And I taught one week when I </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">got a call from the Davis teachers' agency, telling me that they ha</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">d a good job for me in Wyoming. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And it sounded very good because I was getting $1,000 there, and out in Wyoming</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">, I would be getting $2,000. So </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I just doubled the pay for a couple months' more work. My father thought I was going to the end of the world.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">But I resigned then at Osceola. I don't think the school board was very happy with me. And I packed up and came</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">out to Heart Mountain.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">the second week in September when I got out </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">there. Some o</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">f the teachers had gotten there </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">already. The principal and school superintendent had been on the job for severa</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">l months. And they had tried to </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">get everything organized so that we coul</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">d be an accredited high school. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And then we started school</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">the first week in October. Several weeks I </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">was there beforehand, we sorted </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">books and got assigned to our classrooms and got things set out.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Do you remember what your first impressions were when you arrived in Heart Mountain?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">What? What?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Your first impressions of the place.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>. Oh. [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I remember writing the folks and saying that it was all right if you looked up. The sky </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">was pretty and blue, but not if </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">you looked around. No</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">, it was very, very bleak. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">t was hot. And all you </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">saw were these black tar paper </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">barracks. And you just saw the trainloads of evacuees coming in, and you felt sorry for them.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">What sort of housing did you have there?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Well, the first</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> year we lived in Cody, Wyoming. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">here was no gas, so people weren'</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">t traveling. So we lived in a—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">what do </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">you call it? It was a motel. A little</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> motel. And a lot of the faculty lived the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">re. There wasn't enough room at </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Heart Mountain yet. They had built dorms out there, and some of the single peop</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">le were out there in dorms. But </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">there were no apartments</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> for the married people at all. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And then in the next year, we had a fairly nice apartment, except ours also was </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">not dust-proof. We had lots and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">lots of dust. But we did have electricit</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">y and water and a refrigerator. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And all the evacuees had when they arrived was a big room. The rooms varied in</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> size, depending on the size of </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">the family. Some of the rooms were 20 feet long, and some were much smaller. F</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">amilies varied from six on down to single. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">They had one lightbulb hanging down from the ceiling, no running water. The latrines and the show</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ers were all </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">outside. There was one for each b</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">lock. And there were 20 blocks. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">So it was pretty cold. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">They </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">said some</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> of the m</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">others didn't get anything done</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> but</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> bundling up their children and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">taking them out to the bathroom and back in again. It was pretty</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">, pretty</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> sad.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And for the single people, were there separate dorms for the single people?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">No, the evacuees were in the same ones, but they had a smaller apartment.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">, I see.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">They say the women went to work immediately, getting sheets and so forth, dividing up </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">the space so they'd have </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">a little privacy. And I guess the latrines at first were just wide open. There</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> was no privacy in them at all. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">But the Japanese were quite ingenious. They began to do things. They</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> said Montgomery Ward and Sears </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Roebuck got a lot of money from tools that the internees had ordered. Some of t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">hem were trying to patch up the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">leaky hole</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">s in the barracks and so forth. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">They had one pot-bellied stove in each room. They didn't do adequate heating job</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">s, of course. Of course, that's </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">what we had too, up on the hill. We had a pot-bellied stove.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And so what did you teach then?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I taught English, and I also had a math class. I taught fres</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">hman and sophomore English and A</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">lgebra.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And about how many students did you have in a class?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Well, several of the classes were quite small. But they never got over 2</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">5 or so. They were pretty good. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And I would say that the discipline was heaven. We had none of the discipline prob</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">lems that I had when I got back </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">to Pasco.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> I think they were all kind of beaten down at that point. They seemed c</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">heerful, but I don't know. They </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">must have thought they couldn't get by with an</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ything, because they very good. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And of course the original schools were in the barracks. And there were no desks.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> They had the long benches that </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">the kids sat in, and they had to do their writing on their lap. And I had an assistant</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> to help me grade papers, which </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">was nice, because I'd never had that before.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">So the whole time you w</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ere there, there were no desks?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: Well, j</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ust in the barracks. In '43, then, the high school was built. And it was heaven c</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ompared to what we had. It went up within a year. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">But it had a big administrative building</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">section in the middle. And then it had two big wings on it. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">they had a Home </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span class="SpellingError SCX227730302">E</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span class="SpellingError SCX227730302">c</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> department in one section. They had a shop. They had a sci</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ence department. They had a big </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">gym</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">nasium and auditorium combined. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And we had enough textbooks finally. So it was very, very much improved over the first year.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">What about eating facilities? Were there cafeterias, mess halls?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">No, the kids always ate in the mess hall. You see, each block had its own mess </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">hall where they would go, along </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">with their bath facilities. And they wo</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">uld go to the mess hall to eat. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I might say that at first there was a little unrest. They claimed they weren't gettin</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">g the proper food and so forth. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">But they kind of worked with the administration. And later they didn't seem to c</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">omplain so much about the food. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Then we had a separate cafeteria up on the hill where w</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">e ate at noon. And we complained, because the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">meat was always lamb. I was so tir</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ed of lamb when we got through.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I guess that's what was available in Wyoming.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Right. Yeah. Well, another thing that's of interest when we're talking about food is that the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">y had their own chicken </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ranch down at the bottom they put in. And they also </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">had a bunch of pigs down there. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And the second year, the late summer, 1945, they took over the land across the street</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">across the highway</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">—and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">they put in a huge garden. And they had every kind of vegetable imaginable do</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">wn there. And the people around </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Cody said that it wouldn't grow. It wouldn't grow there at all. But we had an </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">abundance of fresh things then. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And it was in the fall of 1945</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">1944, rather</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">when it got really cold, and they we</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">re afraid the potatoes were all </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">going to freeze. So they dismissed school. And they plowed up all the potatoes. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">nd the kids went out and picked up potatoes. The faculty, too</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">So about how many internees were there?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">We had 10,000 in the camp. And there were times when we had about 10,7</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">00. There were 120,000 Japanese </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">that were evacuated. If you had a sixth of a Japanese blood in you, you were evacuated.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And obviously all the internees were from the west coast. Were they mostly from California?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">All along the coast. They were sent from Washington, along the coast. It went down that were also taken. There is</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">this movie</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">maybe you've seen it</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">that is very, very good, number of years ago. And I can't remember the name</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">of it. It's based on a family that was ev</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">acuated from over on the coast. </span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And so there were some residents there from the Tri-Cities area, right?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Well, yes. My understanding is that the Columbia River was the dividing line.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> Everybody west of the Columbia </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">River went. But some people east</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">and I know there were a couple families i</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">n Pasco went, because they were </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">afraid. Sentiment against the Japanese was very, very bad, and they were afraid to stay. And they came back.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Now did you know these people at all when you were there? Or were these people that you heard about later?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">No, once the war was over, it was over</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">, yeah</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">So for students who were in the high school when they first came to Heart Mou</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ntain, but finished high school </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">during the war, were they able go to college somewhere?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: Well, w</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">hile they were in camp those three years, if they had the resources and they f</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ound a school that would accept </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">them, college students could go out, as long as they went east. And we had </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">a number who went out. And also </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">there were a few of the laborers who went out to get better jobs that were allowed to go.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">So you went there in the fall of--</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">In the fall of '42, and left in the late summer of '45. Was there five years</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">or three years.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Overall, how would you describe your experience teaching there?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Well, I would say it's very good. We had a nice social background with other C</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">aucasians. And we knew a few of </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">the Japanese. But somehow we didn't get very</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">there wasn't an opportunity, rea</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">lly, to get very close to them. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I might say that the administration did a great job in trying to get things organi</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">zed, along with the help of the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">outstanding leaders in the Japanese community. And they had Boy Scout grou</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ps and Camp Fire Girls and Girl </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Scout groups. And they had dance clubs and everything</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> that would keep the kids busy. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And when it g</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ot really hot, they dug a great</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> big swimming pool. And the kids</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> went swimming. And then in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">winter, they skated there. Some of them had never seen an ice skate before. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">they had great fun ice skating. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">They couldn't get out on the hills, though, to go sled</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ding. They had to stay in camp. Oh, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I might say there were about 19</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">guard stations around the camp. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">nd they were up high, with very </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">powerful searchlights. And nobody could get out without being caught. And as we went in and out the gate, w</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">e </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">had to have badges on. And the Army was stationed down at the base.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">You mentioned, when I talking to you earlier, that you had teaching assistants</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> or assistants that helped you, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">grading?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Yes, I had two students. They were kids who were already through high sc</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">hool. And they would help grade </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Engl</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ish papers and math papers. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span class="SpellingError SCX227730302">Sak</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span class="SpellingError SCX227730302">iko</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> Yoshimura and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span class="SpellingError SCX227730302">Metsu</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span class="SpellingError SCX227730302">Metsuku</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Mets</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span class="SpellingError SCX227730302">suku</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">what's her name now? </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I've forgotten. I saw it in the book. Yeah. Y</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">eah. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And we kept track of</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">one of them went back to Japan the minute the camp clo</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">sed down. And the other one was </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">a seamstre</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ss. And she went to California. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And when my daughter and I were traveling one day, we stopped to see her. But we lost track of her l</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ater. We </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">don't know what happened.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Did you ever get a sense, or any of the internees ever say anything? They expre</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ssed any sort of disappointment </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">or anger or anything about being in the camp? Or did they not really talk about it?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">No, we were told when we went that</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> you'll never get a job in a private</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> sch</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ool again. If you go teach those </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Japs. You're through. And they were crying for teachers when we got out. There's no problem.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">So once the camp closed, then, what happened to you? What did you do?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Well, when the camp closed</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">well, school was over in 1945 in the last of May. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> all teachers were through. But </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">if you wanted to stay on, and they needed you in some </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">other department, you could go. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And I was always interested in hospital work. In fact, that's what I thought I want</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ed to be when I was growing up, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">was a nurse. So I went to the hospital. And my husband went to the housing are</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">a where they were boxing up the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">household goods that the Japanese acquired a</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">nd put them on the train. Incidentally,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> each one was give</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">n $25 a ticket </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">to where they</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> wanted to go, and that was it. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">But I had a lot of experiences in the high school</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">—i</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">n the hospital. And I was so gratef</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ul for the opportunity. Being a </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Caucasian, I got to do things</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">administer medicine and do things</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">that otherwise</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> the Japanese didn't get to do. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And I remember so well. One of the doctors came in and grabbed me one day.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> And he said, come here, I need </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">you quickly. Lady's going to have a baby. So I was there and he put out his gloves for me to hold to put them on</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">. I </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">was only woman </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">in the room besides the doctor. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And I got to see a baby born. And that was before I had any children. And it </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">was really, really interesting. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And another experience, there was a time, there was one of the fellows dying, an older man. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">she got me and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">said, I think you need to see this. So she took me in, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">nd we watched his last breaths. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And when he was gone, she says, now we have to take out his false teeth and t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ake him to the morgue. They had </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">a morgue in the hospital. So she says, I want you to go down with me. And so I did</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">. And shoved him in the freezer there. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Then we came back to the room to clean it up. And she says, oh, I forgot to put hi</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">s false teeth in. But she says, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">you don't have to go with me this time. I'll go down and do it. She w</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">as a graduate nurse, of course. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And the salary scale, I don't think we've talked about, was very interesting. There </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">were three scales. I was making </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">over $200 a month. And the highest any Japanese internee could get was $19 </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">a month. And some of the nurses got a little upset at one time. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">But they wouldn't do anything about it. They had set the scale for $19 for profession</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">al. And then I think it was $16 </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">for in between. And the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> laborers got only $12 an hour. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">They said they couldn't pay the laborers more than the Army</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">an Army private</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> got.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> And that was $20 a day, not an </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">hour. $20 a day. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">So they didn't make much money. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">That was one reason they liked the work outside, if they could. Get a job on the outside. Because t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">he </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">administration demanded that they be paid the same way</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> as a Caucasian on the outside. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">The governor of Wyoming wasn't very helpful. He wanted them to be slave laborers</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">, practically, and work for $12 </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">an hour. And the WRA</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">that's the War Relocation Authority</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">said no. You h</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ave to pay them same as you pay </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Caucasians. So some of them got some extra money that</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> way, if they could be cleared. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I mentioned to you the newspaper. We had a fellow who was trained in journalis</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">m. And he immediately started a </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">newspaper. It started within a week</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">from the time he got th</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ere. He got his staff together. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">It was an eight page newsletter</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">or newspaper, rather</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">that came out once every </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Saturday. And that kind of kept </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">the evacuees in touch with what's going on in the outside world, as long as rules a</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">nd so forth in the camp. And he </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">had some pretty good editorials, where he was questioning things. And I do have</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> some copies of those that I'll </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">give you, if you want them.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Now did those newspapers have to go through--</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I don't know how much censoring they did. I wouldn't be surprised, but what they had some though.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Were there radios allowed in the camp to listen to?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Get updates on was happening in the world?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">There were always rumors, always rumors.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> We had a fellow up in the dorm area th</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">at got the greatest delight out </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">of starting a rumor and seeing </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">how long it took to get around. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Oh, there were rumors about how there were Japanese on the coast, and they </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">were going to invade. There was </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">balloons that were going to be coming over, and so forth and so on. But nothing</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> ever happened. There was never </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">any incident at all.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Do you have any idea how large the staff was that worked at the camp?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Oh, dear. I think there were 200 in the administrative area. And teachers</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I don't know for a school that size</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">—it </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">was a big high school. We had the eighth grade in the high school, too. So it w</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">as a pretty big school. And our </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">cla</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">sses weren't big. I remember on</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">e summer, I taught solid geometry, and I only h</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ad about eight students in </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">there.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And was there a graduation ceremony?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Oh, yes, yes. When they graduated, there was a big ceremony. We had a big a</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">uditorium, as I said, which was </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">also a gym. And it was well used here.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Was there a church or churches in the camp?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Oh, yes. The WRA started out with two churches, a Catholic and a Protestant.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> And the Buddhists wanted their church. And two-thirds</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> of the group were Buddhists. And the WRA r</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">efused, but eventually gave in. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">So eventually there was a Buddhist church, and the Catholic and the Protestant. W</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">e went to the Protestant church </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">and got very well acquainted with the minister and his wife and had them over for dinner. Nice couple.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Do you remember when you heard about the war ending? Or any of that?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Oh, yes. We were eating lunch in</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">oh, no, no. When we were eating l</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">unch, it was when Roosevelt was </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">pronounced dead.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> And my husband was down in the lab, because he was alw</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ays fooling with radios. He was building his own radio. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And he came rushing up and said that Roosevelt had died. And this was during the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> lunch hour. I forget the date. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">But the war</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">well, it's an interesting story about how we heard about the war. We</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> were married in '43. My sister was married in '45. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And her husband was working at the University of Chicago. And the department</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">what do they call it? The one </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">where they were--</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">The Manhattan Project</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">, or-</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Yeah. Well, it's part of the Manhattan Project. And he knew what we were doing out</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> at Hanford, but we didn't know </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">what was goin</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">g on out here. And so the fella</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">s were in the living room</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I remember</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">and we were out in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">breakfast nook at York,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> Nebraska, at my parents' home. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And Stanley</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">my brother-in-law</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">came running out to the kitchen and grabbed</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> my sister by the arm and said, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">come in and listen to this. He said, I want you to hear it. And you tell me what you </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">heard. And she did. And then he </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">said, wel</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">l, that's what I've been doing. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">So that was how we know the war had ended. They'd dropped the bomb</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> on Hiroshima. They always said </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Hiroshima, not "Hiro-SHEE-ma."</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">So now did you and your husband meet at Heart Mountain?</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> Or, how did you meet?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I met my husband at the University of Chicago. I was there one summer</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">. And we got acquainted. And we </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">corresponded. And he'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> come to Nebraska and so forth. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Then he ran out of money. He was working on his Ph.D. So he took a job at White</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">hall, Montana. And he was there </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">the year that I was at </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Heart Mountain, the first year. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And then he wanted to come down. And of course they gave him a job. And we were married then.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And so after the war ended, how did you end up in Pasco then? How did that happen?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Oh, that was when</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">we stayed in Heart Mountain until almost the end of the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">summer. And then my husband was </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">interested in getting a teaching job in Washington. So he started applying for jobs</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> along the Columbia River, any </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">big town. And Pasco was the first one that answered his letter and said, we have a science job.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">What were your first impressions of Pasco?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Terrible.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> Terrible. It was the last day in August. Very, very hot. We were in what</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> they call the Riverside homes, down the river. Big room. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">We must have had a refrigerator. I don't remember it. But the cupboards were op</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">en. No doors on the cupboards or anything. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And of course there was no electricity. I mean, you couldn't buy any electric gad</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">gets. You did your cooking on a </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">range. And if you can imagine that, on the last day of August</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">then it was then that C.L. Boot</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">h, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">he </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">superintendent</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">asked me if</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">or I said, do I have to stay here? And he asked me w</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">hat I did. And I said, oh, I've </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">been teaching school. And he said, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">come on up and we'll you a job. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">So then I taught a year. And then we quit to have our family. And then I went back later.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And so you already knew about Hanford before you came here, though.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Yeah, we found out. The end of August, I guess, or in August, whenever t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">hat was, when my sister and her </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">husband were there, because they'd just gotten married.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">So what was Pasco like as a community in the 1940s, 1950s?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Well, we stayed the first night at the new Pasco hotel on Lewis Street. And before </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">we got our Riverside apartment. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And it was prett</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">y hot. I wasn't much impressed. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">My husband always wanted to go to Hawai</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">’</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">i. And he thought, well, we would be on our way to Hawai</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">’i, then</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">. He thought it would be nice to teach over there.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And so you stayed.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">So we stayed.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">So that would be 70</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">almost 70 years?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Yeah, well, it was 70</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I figured it was 72 years since I'd been at Heart Mountain. We came to Pasco in '45.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">'45?</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">69 years</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">, I guess</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">About 20 years.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">‘45</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> to now</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">So if there anything I haven't asked you about--</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: Well I think we’ve-</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--Heart Mountain?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Well, there was one thing that</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">the Nisei were subject to draft. And they had to fill</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> out a big form. And they had a </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">couple questions on there that a few of them wouldn't sign. One of them, are willin</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">g to withdraw all allegiance to </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">the Japanese emperor? And the other one, are you loyal to the United States? Would you be ser</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ving the Army? </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And there was a committee that formed. And some of them thought their constituti</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">onal rights had definitely been </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">tramped</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> on. And that they wouldn't sign, they said, until they</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> were given their freedom back. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">But the 442nd contingent that you know about, that was so very, very famous, the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">y were all made up of Japanese. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">And a l</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">ot of Japanese took part there. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">But because of the questionnaire and so forth, and some of them got a little belli</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">gerent, they were arrested. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">there was one fellow who really wouldn't give in. And he was put in jail for three years I know of.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">So you knew about that, about the questionnaire. </span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: Uh-huh, yeah. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">That happened while we were there.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Were there a number of young men from Heart Mountain who did end up going to the military, joining the Army?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Oh, yes, yes, a lot of them. Which I think was pretty wonderful. The way they'v</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">e been treated, that they would </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">actually go. But they were showing their loyalty to the US. They claimed they were still US citizens.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Well, this has been very interesting for me.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Well, it's fun to review it. I hadn't thought about it for so long. But it's interesting.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">At some point, when you were here in Pasco, did you ever get to know any of t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">he Japanese-Americans who lived </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">here who had</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> been</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> in Heart Mountain?</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: Well, my husband had Jerry </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span class="SpellingError SCX227730302">Minatoya</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> I think, in class in Heart Mountain. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">when he got here, he had him in </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">class in high school.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"> There were a number of Japanese families living in Pasco, though.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">Well, I want to thank you for coming in and sharing your experiences and your photos.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: Well it’s been—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">I'm sorry my voice is so </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span class="SpellingError SCX227730302">cracky</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: No, it’s w</span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">onderful. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227730302"><span class="TextRun SCX227730302"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gladden</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227730302">You're welcome.</span><span class="EOP SCX227730302"> </span></p>
</div>
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:32:00
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1945-2015
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Booth, C.L.; Minatoya, Jerry
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
226 Kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Elizabeth Gladden
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Elizabeth Gladden conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-05-30: Metadata v1 created – [J.G]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Pasco(Wash,)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
7/7/2014
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
Ice Skating
Pasco (Wash.)
swimming
War Relocation Authority (United States)
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F6c10e7cd5c77c67e2ed1ebcce4a63ef6.jpg
87ee9053e27e2c67bb21a94229a21fe3
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fdad70d298e5bf3f027f0463a19488be2.mp4
b415b0ea09ed2f30f8b71066b333122f
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">Douglas </span><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: My name is Douglas </span><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">. I’m conducting an oral history interview with Everett A. Weakley on January 13</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">th</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">, 2016. Interview i</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">s being conducted on the campus of Washington State University Tri-Cities. And I will be talking with Everett, or </span><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">Ev</span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">—would you prefer Everett, or--?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Just—yeah, </span><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">Ev</span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363"> or Everett. Either one.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">Douglas </span><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Okay. About his experiences working on the Hanford site. Okay, well thanks for being here. So—you were just telling me while we were having some camera issues—I’d love to hear about sort of how you got involved with the Hanford site, what you were working on that brought you here, and then your sort of early years, what you were working on here.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Well, they came up to University of Idaho and recruited people. An</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">d I was one of the ones they</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> recruited. So I came down here, and they put me on work at the tritium program extraction process. So I was a process control engineer at that time.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Do you know why they recruited you? Were you working in physics?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: They were after engineers, especially chemical engineers at that time.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">:</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> I see.</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> Did you know anything about nuclear science specifically?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Oh, no. We didn’t know squat. [LAUGHTER] Of course. Because we were up at University of Idaho. But it was a lot better than being drafted and sent to Korea.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: How much were they able to tell you about the job before they hired you?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Very little. Very little. They didn’t tell us what was going on. They came down here and they put some people—engineers in this job, some in this job. I was selected for tritium extraction.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Mm-hmm. Could you tell me about your first experiences on that job? What sort of the first month or two like? Do you remember?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Well, they put us on shift work. I think it was called XYZ shift. And it was only five days a week, but it was—changed. So they were going 24 hours a day, but only for five days. It was a glass line at that time. Tritium was extracted and then you had to send it—you had to pump it out through palladium windows—that’s the way they got the hydrogen out, and </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">the tritium</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> and </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">the deuterium. And then we had to collect those in glass containe</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">rs. It was all hooked up to the</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> system. And then we were designing one for a metal one. So</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> I went in on the metal designs</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> also. And most of that work was done in the shops down in—oh, what do they call it—the old Hanford site. They had a lab—or a place down there, and they did most of the work—construction work. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> then</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> they assembled it all. It was interesting work, actually. Because they kept me out of the Korean War, also, so I was happy about that. I didn’t want to go over there.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Part of what we’re trying to get an idea about is sort of—what was it like working on the Hanford site? Is there anything that sticks out to you about the way things worked? Or the structure, or anything like that?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Well, since I was a single guy, they put us in the dorms. They ran out of dorms, so they put us—there was two dorms that were down in the women’s dorm area. So they put us in one of those dorms down there. I remember there was a—what the heck street was that? Anyway, those women’s dorms were right close there, too. And then we’d go up and eat at the Mart, which is still here, but it isn’t called the Mart now. And we’d walk through this field of—I think they were prunes or plums or something like that. And you’d go through there and you’d get attacked by the birds. [LAUGHTER] They would actually attack you during the daytime. So it was a lot of things going on. For dorm club, we’d go down to—oh, the Blue Mountains, and we’d go up to Mount Hood, and hunting and fishing was always what I did. It was a good place. Lot of people. It was interesting, because everybody was new, had come in. It was quite the exciting time to see all these people from all over the United States.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Did you live in the dormitories long?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Oh, let’s see. I lived in there until I got married in ’53. Then we got a B house on Van </span><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">Giesen</span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363"> Street—one end of it. And I wasn’t the oldest tenant, so I could not buy that anyway. I wouldn’t want it anyway. And t</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">hen they started selling houses;</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> I got a H house, south end of town and had to remodel that. Had to dig out the basement and all that. By that time, I had several children, so I kind of had to make room for all these kids. Took out the chimney. My wife did not like the coal-burning stove down there to heat the place. So we put in electric baseboard heat. Swamp coolers on the windows. Re-put new—took the chimney out. Had to put new roofing on. All that sort of thing. And later on, we moved to where we are on Pike Avenue now. Then we had more kids. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Keep you busy.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: That’s right.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: What was life like in Richland in the ‘50s?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Well, it was kind of—there was alw</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">ays something to do. Mainly, down</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> along the river in the park. We’d go down there for entertainment in the evenings. There’d be dances. And then I took up square dancing, my wife and I. So that was in different places, but mainly at the end, it was down in the—what do they call it, down there now? At the park. Oh, community house. It’s still going. I think this is their last year. </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">We used to be on what’s now a hole in the ground, on the south end of that building, was where they used to have a structure. That’s where we danced, it was in that. And they had a kitchen in there; everybody’d bring food. It was a nice time. Had a lot of fun.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: So you said—do you feel it was easy to get integrated into the community, to be a part of the community at that time?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: What do you mean?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Well, I’m just thinking in terms of your—you’ve been describing a very interesting social scene that people can get into. I’m just thinking, there were a lot of new people coming into town. How—you yourself, of course, experienced this—what it was like to be a new resident in Richland.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Well, mainly you were in dorms. So, you were all right out of college. Here you are, a bu</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">nch of college kids, here—men, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">nd then college women right next door to them. So there was a lot of dating going on. Then we’d go over to Pasco, to the Elks Club at that time. And on Friday nights, they always </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">had a fish dinner. We’d go over there and dance and eat. That was a good time. That was ballroom dancing, it wasn’t square dancing. That was later.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: So returning to </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">your work for a minute, I guess</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> to some degree you’ve done this, but could you sort of describe a typical work day, and did that change over the long course of time that you were working there?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Well, when I went out there, I had to work shift work. XYZ shifts. You’d work daytimes, evenings, and nighttime. I didn’t like that too well. Then when I went to 300 Area, I was all daytime, which I liked.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: How much did the work you were doing change as you got these success</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">ive promotions, as you got the new </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">jobs?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Here?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Yeah. I mean, when you were an engineering assistant, was your—I’d assume—if only because it’s decades earlier—how different was your work </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">than </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">when you were principal engineer or senior principal engineer?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Well, the added responsibility, of course. And I spent a lot of time in the old reactor fuel and then I wrote a lot of documents on how to—the </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">canning proces</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">s. And that’s probably in here—</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">I’m pretty sure it is.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: I noticed here, it say</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">s that you are an expert on fuel</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> manufacturing environmental issues. I wonder what—when did that become a priority? The environmental issues, was that something that was always part of your work, or did that develop over time?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Environmental issues—you worried about what was going out the stacks, especially in 313. We had slug recovery—we’d take the aluminum—the ones that were reject—and they would dissolve the aluminum cans off in caustic, and they always had this exhaust going out. If you didn’t watch it, </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">it would suck out quite a bit of moisture with it, and that would have caustic in it. We had trouble wi</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">th the women walking by—their</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> nylon hose would disintegrate. And they didn’t like that. I don’t blame them. And you could feel it—you could feel it on your face. They had to fix that up, of course.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Were</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> safety issues or</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> the</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> environment ever something you were concerned about working there?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Oh, yeah</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">, I was always worrying about—</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">And then at the 306 Building, making fuel elements for the N Reactor, I was involved in that—a lot of things. I had to make trips to the aluminum companies that made aluminum products for us. Bought them back east, and some of them in California. So I did a lot of traveling, going to these different places, trying to get improvements made in aluminum ore, and later on, Zircaloy-2. That was </span><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">Wah</span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363"> Chang made that down in Oregon—made Zircaloy-2 for us. That was interesting. So you’d take a drive down there and visit t</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">heir plant. And then you’d go to</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> these other places and visit those plants.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: These were to get components for the fuel manufacturing?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: What’s that?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Were these trips to get components for the fuel manufacturing?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: They were making components for—</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: I see. </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">How much—let’s go with this. Could</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> you describe the ways in which security and/or secrecy impacted your work?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Well, you couldn’t talk about what you were doing, and we knew that. I made a lot of trips—I went to National Lead Company in Ohio at Fernald. That’s the ones that we would get our uranium cores from, for the old reactors. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">hen I’d go down to Mallinckrodt</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363"> in Weldon Spring, Missouri, and that’s where they started making the billets that they’d send up to—on Lake Erie. There was a place that’d take the big billets and make smaller billets for the N Reactor. So I was always traveling around. Then at the same time, I was going down to the Savannah River plant and checking on what they were doing, because they had the same people. Like me, engineers that were busy and they’d get together and compare notes, and try to get the lower prices on some things. Especially aluminum components for the old reactors. Nothing much you could do about the </span><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">Zircaloy</span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: it was pretty well fixed. The only plant I never go to was the one that made the braze rings for the N Reactor fuel. That was back in—and it had beryllium in it. And I never had gone to there. I don’t know—I just plain missed it for some reason. I don’t know why.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: W</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">as it easy to communicate with all the engineers and workers at the</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">se</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> plants, or did the</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> secrecy ever sort of inhibit that</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Oh, no. If you’re buying, say, </span><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">Zircaloy</span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363"> stuff, you go right down here in Oregon and talk to them. And that’s what we did.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Okay.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Same way</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> back east on the aluminum plants. Did a lot of traveling. My wife didn’t like that, I don’t think, but we had to travel a lot. And it was old airlines at that time. </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">[INAUDIBLE]</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> had an airline to go to Spokane. You could catch a plane from there, </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">it </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">take</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">s</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> six hours to get into—now takes just a few hours.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: W</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">as it unusual that you were traveling that much? Did other people also travel that much from the Hanford site?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, a lot of people were traveling. It’s hectic now. I won’t get on an airplane anymore, so heck with them. [LAUGHTER] I’m retired; I don’t do that. </span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Do you feel the security or secrecy of the place changed much over the decades?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Oh, yeah. When I started here it was really secret. They didn’t want the Russians to know anything about making tritium. But the secret got out, because somebody in Savannah River—or </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">down at </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">Oak Ridge probably told them. So nothing we could do about it.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Right.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: But oh, yeah, they tried to keep it secret.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: What were the most challenging and/or rewarding aspects of your work at Hanford?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: </span><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">Ooph</span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">! That’s a tough one.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: It’s a big</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> question. Any particular times that you were working on a pro</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">ject that was really stumping ever</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">ybody? Any real challenges there that stick out?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Well, there’s always challenges </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">to make things safer and better, and don’t dump stuff out into the atmosphere, or down the drain out to the ponds. Because at that time, they ponds alo</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">ng the river. And it discharges—</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">a lot of stuff went into that pond. They tried to clean that stuff up, but—oh, yeah. When you have time to go through this, you will find a lot of things in here that I worked on.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Is there anything in there that you’re particularly proud of having accomplished? Or that sticks out?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Well, I lasted the whole—until I got laid off. [LAUGHTER] That’s an accomplishment—I didn’t get crapped up with anything.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Did you like your job?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Oh, yeah, I liked it. Oh, sure. It was a challenging </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">job. I wrote a lot of manuals. That’s one of the things I did, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> lot of manual writing when I was out there. There are still some of those around on the processes of lead-dip canning process, and co-extrusion process. I did a lot of writing. </span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Have the Tri-Cities changed much in your time living here?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Oh, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: And how?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Oh, yeah, since I came in ’50? Oh, yeah. There’s a lot of changes. They couldn’t even allow the blacks to live in Kennewick. They had to go over in Pasco, for instance.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Right.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: So we didn’t see too many blacks, actually. Now towards the end, they started hiring some people in that were blacks. I had no problem with them.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Yeah, we’re trying to get a sense for how the community has changed over time. I know that’s a vague question. That’s certainly an interesting point about the </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">demographics of it. Anything else about sort of the social life, the number of things going, anything else like that that sticks out to you on how the community’s changed over the decades?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Well, I always had been hunting and fishing. So when I came here, I took up hunting</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> and fishing again. Some of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> people that I—I belong to the Rod and Gun Club—joined that many years ago, and I still belong, even though I got rid of my guns last year. I don’t go out and dig goose pits in the middle of the winter anymore. That’s too cold. I didn’t like to eat geese, anyway. [LAUGHTER] But I had a lot of good trips hunting down the Blues and up north of Spokane, up in that area. </span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: One of the things—</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">well, </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">okay. Let me go to this one next. What would you like future generations to know about working at Hanford and/or living in Richland during the Cold War?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Hmm. That’s an odd one. </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">Well</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> for one thing, we couldn’t announce what we were doing anywhere. If you could, you made sure you didn’t. If they said, hey, you’re from Hanford. But it didn’t bother me on traveling too much. Because I’d usually go on to aluminum vendors or Zircaloy-2 vendors. Or I’d go to Savannah River plant, which has got the same restrictions as we have. And it was a free exchange then when you went there or you went to National Lead at Fernald. It was free exchange with the people there. So that was</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> just</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> like being at work. So I had no really problem with it. I didn’t really like traveling that much. But there was nothing I could do about it.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: You were mentioning your collaboration people at Savannah River. Can you tell me more about that?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: What’s that?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reag</span></span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">an</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: You were mentioning your</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> training people at Savannah River, is that right? Or</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> just trained people who</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> eventually</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> were</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> at Savannah River?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: No, they were—I met one of them. But they sent people up in tritium extraction. Because they built that plant for tritium. The guy that was running the tritium extraction plant was one</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> of them</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> that I trained. And the last trip I made down there, I met him and went into the tritium extraction plant with him and talked to him. He gave me a tour of what it was like. It was a lot different than what we had out here, of course. Then they shipped their stuff again to Oak Ridge. </span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Okay. So, I’m also interested in how people commemorate their community, how people celebrate the history, or try to remember the history. I understand that you’ve been involved in some of the historical groups around here. Can you tell me something about that? Why you thought that was important, why you got involved with those groups?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Are</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> you talking about the Richland</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> Rod and Gun Club, for instance?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Well, them and also the B Reactor Museum Association and so on.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Well the B Reactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> Association, </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">I was one of the earlier ones, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">efore they got the Indians out there. It was interesting, because I was on the ground floor with them. In fact, I was in a meeting this week with them. I still belong to them. Just like the Rod and Gun Club, I still belong to them, even though I don’t—got rid of all my guns because I don’t go out and dig goose pits in the wintertime anymore. </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">So it was interesting.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: I always find that there’s an awful lot of things that I don’t know that I should be asking. What could you—what would seem important or interesting that you might want to talk about, or think might be worth discussing that I might have not thought to ask? Anything that comes to mind?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Hmm. Not right off the top of my head, it isn’t.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Sure, that’s fine.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Yeah. We’re just trying, as I</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> said—we’re most interested in getting</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> a feel for life in the Tri-Cities throughout the Cold War, up to the near present. And just how things have changed over time. What it was like to be a worker on the Hanford plants, how work on the Hanford plant changed over </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">time, what it was like living in the community and getting to know people. So really, a broad set of things, but there’s always questions I don’t think to ask.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Okay. Well</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> you might have some ideas when you go through this later on. They gave me this, had my payroll number on it and all that. My service dates, 6/19/50 is when I came here. And payroll number 51500 was pretty easy to remember, thank goodness.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: As you went through this, did anything—</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Huh?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: As you started reading through this a</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">gain, did any memories leap</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> to mind? Did anything about it sort of jog any fond memories or any surprises?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Well, we always had surprises. We never knew what was going to happen. Item—let’s see, what is that? Item four.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Mm-hmm.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: I would ship pyrophoric uranium </span><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">Zircaloy</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> chips and fines back to National Lead. And we had surprises there, because they were supposed to use metal pallets. Somebody brought in wood</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">en ones. And they put all these things that we had full of concrete</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> and chips</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> and fines in it, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">nd they had to take them over ac</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">ross the street into a building. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">nd when they did that, they heated it up and it broke one of the containers, and it caught fire on the shipping containers. They weren’t supposed to use shipping containers. That was a hell of a mess to clean up. Because we had a fire, had to clean all that up then. But we actually shipped the stuff back there and they recovered the uranium and reused it.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Well, I think that’s the written questions I have here. There are certainly a lot more interesting stuff here. Again, if anything comes to mind you would like to speak about, we would love to hear a bit more. Also, it mentions here that your historical knowledge of site activities, particularly in 300 Area, has been extremely valuable in the preparation of the RCRA and CERCLA documents and planning. Could you tell me anything about that initiative?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Whereabouts are you?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: It’s number five, sub-point A.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Oh, okay. I did a lot of document writing and preparations of these RCRA and CERCLAs documents and planning. And I worked with—what’s her name? Michelle Gerber?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Mm-hmm.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: I worked a lot of work with her, as she was a kind</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> of historian. You’ve probably</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> met her, of course.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: I know the name, but I haven’t actually met her, I don’t think.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: You haven’t met her?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: I don’t think so.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Amazing. I’m surprised you haven’t met her yet. Anyway. She needed a lot of work. I would find things in 300 Area when we were cleaning out for the old reactors, getting 313 cleaned out. We would find movies. I’d ship that out to her, and then she made a CD out of it, I think. It showed the canning process, which had never been done before. It was—</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Do you think </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">the history of </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">your job is going to be well-preserved? Do you think the records are still there that can refle</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">ct on your times, your work? That i</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">s again, sort of an open-ended question here. I’m just trying to think through how people will remember this time in history, and sort of the work that you were involved in. You’re mentioning you found this film and were able to get it out there. But probably some materials didn’t make it out, for security reasons or whatever else, or just weren’t preserved. Do you feel that people have an accurate memory of the time as you look through?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Well, most of them, I think, do. I always rode a bicycle around, between the buildings out in 300 Area. I would collect lead parts that I’d see laying around and get rid of them—or pick up anything else. So that I would ride those into the building. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: I saw—I was </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">out </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">at the DoE’s artifact collection—historic</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">al artifact collection. They have</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> some bicycles out there that I guess were what you were describing, people traveling around the site. Was that common?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: What do you mean?</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: You were using bicycles to get around the site?</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Well, it was in our area. </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">Oh, </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">I used it all the time. And it had a basket in the back wheels. I’d put so</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">mething in there—I would collect</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> lead brick or something like that, and put it where the lead’s supposed to be and kind of clean things up.</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> Well, it was a pretty good-sized area, 300 Area, so</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> if</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> you had to go down to the south end for some reason, you wanted to get there and get back.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">Right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">Okay. So as I said, I think these are the questions that we had prepared, sort of the general ones here.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: You might have some questions when you—well, you can use anything you want</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> out</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> of this write-up.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: Yeah, I think this will be a great help. This has been very interesting from my perspective here. We certainly thank you for your time. Yeah, I think that’s</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> at least our first set of questions. But maybe if anythi</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363">ng occurs to us, or to you, maybe</span><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"> we could send follow-up questions? Would that be okay, if any questions—</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Oh, yeah, you can always get ahold of me if I’m around. I don’t go travel too far since I’m 88.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">: All right. Well, thanks very much. We appreciate your time.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: Oh, she’s still back there.</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="SpellingError SCX195563363">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX195563363">. Yeah.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX195563363"><span class="TextRun SCX195563363"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Weakley</span>: [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX195563363"> </span></p>
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Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Douglas O' Reagan
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Everett Weakley
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:32:21
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
240 kbps
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
300 Area
N reactor
306 Building
B reactor
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1950-2016
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1950-?
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Gerber, Michelle
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Everett A Weakley
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Everett A Weakley conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Subject
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Richland (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Nuclear weapons plants--Environmental aspects--Washington (State)--Richland.
Date
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1/13/2016
Format
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video/mp4
Date Modified
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2016-08-08: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
300 Area
306 Building
B Reactor
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
N Reactor
Pasco (Wash.)
Richland (Wash.)
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Ffe043af3846776e389ff8a8681a88431.jpg
1d9746b2f7feed8074166fc471965977
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F36e58cb630d8fbdedc6ee21db97c8258.mp4
06e803929dbc9370d6cde92f8b1e162e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Pre-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691">
<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span class="SpellingError SCX30075691">Kaas_Gordon</span></span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></strong></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Bauman:</span> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So just for official purposes, my name is Robert Bauman and I'm conducting an oral history interview with Mr.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Gordon Kaas. Is it Kaa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Gordon Kaas:</span> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Ok</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. On June 12, 2013. And the interviews are being conducted on the campus of Washington State University Tri</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Cities. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And I'll be talking with Mr. Kaa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s about his family's history and memories about their experiences in Richland</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">growing up in that community.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> So maybe, Mr. Kaa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s, you can tell me, first of all, a little bit about your family and maybe how your family came to</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">the Richland area.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well my father was an immigrant from Denmark and he came here right after the turn of century. Lived in Madras,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Oregon for a while and his brothe</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">r was up here in Richland. He co</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">me up here and he was a farmer. He bought</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">some ground here in what's North Richland and planted the majority of the acreage to apples.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">His brother took care of the orchard for about the first three years while he lived in Madras, Oregon. That's where</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">he met my mother and they were married. And they moved up here I think it wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s 1915, after the orchard began to bear</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">My oldest brother was born in Madras, and then I've got two older brothers, Nelson and George, that were born</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">here, plus my only sister, and then myself and my twin brother. The three older brothers are deceased now but</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">my sister and my twin brother are still living.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And do they live in the area here?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">My sister lives in Kennewick. That's Alice Chapman, her husband James, live in Kennewick. And my twin brother</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and I married sisters, but they live in Kenai, Alaska. And he was a plumber.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">When I got out of high school, we had moved to Kennewick in 1943, because the government said to pack your</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">belongings and go, you've got 30 days. However, we lived far enough north that they gave permission for those</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">that lived up on from here, there's a little rise in the contour, that area they let farm their crop that year. So instead</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">of moving in February or March, we didn't move until November of 1943. That's where the remaining five of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">six children were born.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So you'd mentioned your father came from Denmark.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I wonder if you could talk a little bit about what you know about why he came to the United States, and maybe the</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">same for your mother.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, my </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">mother was an immigrant also, e</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">migrated from Prince Edward Island, Canada. And I had the pleasure</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">of visiting back there this past summer. First time I'd ever been there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">My father came over because of the opportunities that were in the US, and there was a lot of people moving to the</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> New W</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">orld. His background was farming. I think I mentioned he was the youngest of 12 children, and two brothers</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and a sister had immigrated over here ahead of him. So he had a little forewarning of what was here.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And at that time, this area here in Hanford and White Bluffs was a fairly new irrigation area and was attracting</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">people from around the coun</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">try</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">, and around the world, I guess you could say. Because there was other Danes</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and Norwegians and Swedes here. When I was small, when I grew up, we had an apple orchard. But during the</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Depression in the ‘30s</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">, apples was one thing that people didn't have to have and consequently, the market</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">went away. And at that time, peppermint was coming in and he </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">hired a county bulldozer to come in and bulldoze</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">the trees out and planted peppermint. And raised peppermint, as long as we was on the farm.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I should clarify that in 1949 I lost my father, and I and my twin brother were between our sophomore and junior</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">year in high school, so we became the farmers. And that was after we had moved from Richland to Kennewick.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">We had a 40 acre farm here in Richland and the war took my three oldest brothers. My father had the option of</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">keeping one of them at home to help on the farm, but he wouldn't do that. My sister, and my twin brother and</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">myself</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> became farmers fairly quick. And then we moved to Kennewick in 1943, and in 1948 he had come down</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">with cancer. And in '49, he passed away in the middle of August of '49.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">By that time my twin brother and I was the only ones still in school and we became students and farmers both.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And then after we graduated from high school, my mother leased the place out. And I ended up taking a job out in</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Hanford. I worked out there for 21 years, but</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> never got the thought of the fa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">rm out of my head. In 1972 my wife</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and I and </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">we had two children at that time, a son and a daughter. And we bought a farm six miles north of Pasco. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">that's been our home ever since.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So you returned to your farming roots?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> What about your mother? You said your father passed away, unfortunately, in 1949. How about your</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">mother?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">My mother lived for some years later. I think she died in-- I can't remember the da</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">te on it like I can my father—</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">but</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">in the mid '70s. I think it was '78 that she passed away. And at that time the farm was being sold for plots for</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">houses</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> and now it's all houses.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So how many so how many children were there in your family then? How many siblings did you have?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">There were six.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Six, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I had three older brothers. Then my sister come along. And then to finish out the six was my twin brother and I.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">You and your twin brother. And you and your twin brothe</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">r were born in hospital</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">We were the only ones that were born in the hospital. Because thought there might be some complications. So we</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">were born in the Pasco Lady of Lourdes Hospital. The rest were all at home.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And you talked about how the primary crop was apples for quite a wh</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ile until at some point in the D</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">epression you</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">shifted to peppermint. Is that right?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And were there other crops that you grew as well?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, we had of course, alfalfa because we had a few livestock. We had asparagus. And that was up early and</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">that was the asparagus fields. My three older brothers were in t</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">he service. Two of them in the A</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">rmy and one in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Navy. We'd get up early and go cut asparagus.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And when we were left on our farm through the summer we'd see everything booming out here, trucks going by.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">We lived right on </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">George Washington Way. And we'd be out in the field and watching the trucks headed north</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">where</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> the construction was going on. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And we had strawberries. We had a few potatoes. Then, of course, peppermin</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">t. And all that ground was real </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">irrigated.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">How was that irrigated?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Real irrigated where you had corrugates that the water ran down. And so I was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">changing water twice a day. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">my father worked from daybreak to dawn. But as t</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ime went on, we were more help. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">After the military took my three brothers my dad bought a tractor. And he didn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> like the tractor. He liked the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">horses. So my twin brother and I, we got a lot of practice on the tractor. He put</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> us out on the field and get us </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">started an</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d he'd go do some other chores. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">We, my twin brother and I, we continued to farm the Kennewick farm. Which, was d</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ownsized. It was only 20 acres. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">At that time though, you could mak</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e a living on a farm that size. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But I lost my oldest brother in the war. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">the next oldest one was in the A</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">r</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">my and over in Germany. And the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">third from the top was in th</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e Navy and over in the Pacific. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And after the war was over they came home and took jobs out at Hanford, my rem</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">aining two brothers. And when I </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">finished school I got a job out there. And my brother worked out there. My twin brother worked out there on</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> construction. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I was a power operator. And in 1972 I'd been wanting to get out on</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> a</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> farm and I said</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">, I got to make the move before </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I'm 40 or I'm going to give it up. And we found a place to</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> buy. And it's been good to us. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">My main crop, it started off being alfalfa and wheat and sweet corn. But after a </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">couple years I got into raising </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">potatoes. And that ended up being our main crop until I quit farming.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Got it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Let me just go back and ask you another question, too, about your family farm that you grew up on. So were the</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">re </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">other buildings besides the houses? The barn? Any other buildings? And you said it was 40 acres. Is that correct?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">40.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And so I wonder how large the house was? Were there any other buildings as well that were part of the farm?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, back then it didn't take as much a house as it does today. When my f</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">olks moved up here from Madras, </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Oregon--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and I can't tell y</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ou--I think it was around 19</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">17 or 1918. They </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">had the ground but there was no buildings on it. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But there was a small house. I think it was about a two-room house that my d</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ad's brother and </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">him</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> moved from what would be over on--is that--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">what st</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">reet is that? Over to the west? </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Anyway, they moved it from there to onto Georgia Washington Way where we live</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d. And then he added onto that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And then just before the government came in, we had enlarged the house and th</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e next year was another project </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">to finish it. But it started off being a two bedroom. And small ones at that.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Now, it was originally, was there an outhouse? What did you have?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">We didn't have neither electricity or r</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">unning water in the house until--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">it was about 1940.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So not too long before the war.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And that was a big improvement. My mother didn't have to pack water for the washing machine or carry it out. But</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">we didn't have any electricity.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So the washing machine had a little gas </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">engine on it. And like most, Monday was wash day. And that'd be all she'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">get done except cooking some meals.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So was there a well?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes, we had a well.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">That was before my time. But I remember that he had a nephew that came </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">over from Denmark plus my uncle </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">lived here and there was a hand-dug well. And that was on the proper</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ty that is the Energy Northwest </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">h</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">eadquarters now.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Oh, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. And what about neighbors? Who were your closest neighbors? Were there other famili</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">es that you </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">socialized with?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>: Well, yes. We had one neighbor that lived right across the road. And others close</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. I can say there was one, two, </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">three</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">about five that lived in walking distance. You know</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">, a 20-minute walk at the most. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">It was interesting. In the early spring of 1943 there was a number of cars that ha</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d come into town. And they were driving different places. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">It was late enough that some farmers were out in the field. The next day they were </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">all in town at the schoolhouse. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And they called to me and said that the whole community, including White Bluffs i</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">n Hanford was being evicted for a government project. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And that's all they would say. Nobody knew what was ready going on out t</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">here until after the bombs were </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">dropped. And it was interesting when those people that were here d</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">riving in cars were appraisers. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And they were going around and appraising the farms of how much to give th</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e farmers for it. Some got very </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">nervous. They thought if you didn't take the first</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> they might just haul you out in handcuffs </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">or whatever. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But they allowed if you didn't accept for the third appraisal. My father a</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ccepted the third appraisal. My </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">grandmother, she got nervous. And they got her to sign. I think </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">it was on the second appraisal. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But my father, if you didn't sign and take the third appraisal, then they would take it</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> to court. But they give you, I think </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">it was 80% of the offer. And there were a few that took it to cou</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">rt. But my father thought the--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But the surprising part about that is the farmers that took the money and couldn'</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">t find a farm, the price of the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">farmland was going up so fast that what would buy a farm when they got the mo</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ney, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> year later was probably only half enough. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So those people put a hardship on them. But I can't say our situation put a hardship. Becau</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">se we was able to find </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">a farm and it was a good form.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Do you have any idea how much your parents got for the farm?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">You know, I've been wondering that myself. But what I can tell you is that the 20</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> acre farm we got, it had a big </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">house on it. It had a five-bedroom house plus porch,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> front and back. It was $7,200. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And I'm sure it was in that neighborhood, maybe a little more. Because it was 40 a</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">cres rather than 20. And it was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">the only house still standing in North Richland until it too was torn down oh, 15, 20 years ago.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Oh, it stood for that long?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> because the criteria was that if it had indoor plumbing and electricity they </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">would save it if they could and </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">somebody would move into it. And a pa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">trolman that was hired by the--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">well, I guess it was GE back then. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Or no, it </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">was DuPont.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">DuPont?</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Mm-hm.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">He want</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ed that house. And he got the okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> on it. But he would come by about e</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">very three or four days and see </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">what the</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> progress was of us moving out. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">He was anxious to move in. There was a shortage of homes. And it was used for liv</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ing for a few years and then it </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">was right in the middle of that big trailer camp that was out here. And it was turned </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">into the office for the trailer </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">camp.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So he moved in shortly after your grandma left then?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes. When he could see the date that we was going to be out, he had his stuff packed and ready to move.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And so how old are you at this time? About 9 or 10 years old? Somewhere in there?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I was 12 years old when we moved.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> So we moved and we were still moving in N</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ovember. Because that's when my </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">birthday</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> is. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And I remember the time we took the tractor with a big trailer we had behind it wi</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">th some of the last things. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">my dad let me drive it after we got off the highway. I was 12 years old. And our </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">farm, in Kennewick, the address </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">was 3904 West Fourth Avenue now.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So what did you think about this at the time as a young boy? You had spent your who</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">le life, at that point, on this </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">farm. And you're suddenly having to move. What did you think? And do you know</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> what your parents thought? Did </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">you talk to them?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, we spent a lot of time driving around to find a farm. We looked up a lot up </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Prosser </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Way. I can remember </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">sitting out in the yard there for a couple of hours, my mother and dad talking. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And there was a nice big house, older house. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">It was a little smaller farmer than we had gotten. They finally decided they would </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">take it. And my dad went to the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">door and said, we've talked it over and we'd like to buy your farm. And they said, </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">well, we're sorry. My husband's </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">down at the court house signing papers on it n</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ow. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So we were back to looking again. But you can imagine a 12-year-old. We thought thi</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s was kind of a thrill, driving </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">around looking at farms and discussing it and where we was going to live. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I can remember several farms we </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">looked at that some of them had a nice house. But the property wasn't the best. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">he soil wasn't the best. But we </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">was happy when we settled on this one in Kennewick.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So for you, maybe the fact that you ended up with a nice farm in Kennewick--</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes, it was a nice farm. Kennewick is a little bit rocky. But it's bearable. The farm </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">we had out here in Richland was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">a lot </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">more sandy</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. But heavier soil, you can raise better crops. But sandy soil is easier to farm.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So I want to go back to also talking about your early years here. Where did you g</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">o to school? And what was the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">school like? And how many? How big was the school? That sort of thing?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">The </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">school I went to was built in--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">which was Lewis and Clark school down in</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> south Richland. And the year I </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">started there</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> it was brand new. Because of the D</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">epression there was money f</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">or stuff like that, to generate employment. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And Hanford got a new school. And Richland got a new school. And that's where I s</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">tarted the first grade, my twin </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">brother and I.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">My sister was four years ahead of us. So she was in an old school that they immediately tore down after the new</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">school was built. But my dad was a well thought of man here in this area. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> when</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> the irrigation district was in,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">neighbors twisted his arm till </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">he agreed to </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">go on the board for irrigation. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Same for the school district. He was on the board, directors there. In fact, he was</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> the president of the board and </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">signed a c</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ouple of my brothers' diplomas. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And after we moved, well, some would know Jay Perry, who was a county co</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">mmissioner in Kennewick. And he </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">came and wanted my dad to run for his pl</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ace. They talked quite a while. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And my dad said, wel</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">l, Jay, that would never work, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ecause you're a Democrat and I'm a R</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">epublican.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> He said, I'd </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">do anything t</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">o get you in. Whether you're a Republican or not. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So th</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">at's the only way I knew of </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">what his preference of party. But there was, f</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">or farmers back then, there was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">more done for the farmers than a lot of people.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So do you know how big the school was? Do you know how many students there were about?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, it was an eight-room school, first through the eighth grade. And I would</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> say, there was probably on the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">average of at least 20 in each class. Then when things got a little tougher, first,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> well, second grade and half of </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">third was in one room. And the other half of third and the fourth grade was in a</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">nother room. So they were small </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">enoug</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">h then that they could do that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">that school was tore down for the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">replacements that there are now. But it was a nic</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e all-brick school that for old </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">time's sake, I hated to see it go. But both of my children started in that school.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Oh, did they really?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">For first grade. Because we lived in the south end of Richland at that time. And our</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">what is</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> the--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">the</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Justice over in </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Pasco, he went to that school. My son went with him. Cameron Mitchell.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Oh, Cameron Mitchell, sure. So what sorts of things did you do for recreational activities growing up on your farm?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Oh, main thing for recreational was work. But we did have time. And when we were l</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ittle my dad didn't require us to--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">We never were slave labor by any stretch. But we'd roller skate out on the roa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d. There wasn't very many cars. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And we'd play hide and seek and one thing my dad let us do is a couple horse to a</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">n old sled that we had that was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">about four by six, to a horse. And take our dog and we'd go out hunting j</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ackrabbits. Didn't have a gun. But that </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">dog could catch the jackrabbits. And we'd probably get five</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> or six every time we went out. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">They'd be just wandering out through the sagebrush. We was out at the edge o</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">f the farming community here in </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Richland. So ther</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e's plenty of sagebrush ground. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And we thought that was great, to go out with the dog. My twin brother and I, an</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d my three cousins from over on </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">the coast would come here. I got a picture of it. Looking at it yesterday, that a</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ll five of us on that sled, out </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">jackrabbit hunting. But just things like that. What kids </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">do.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Sure.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Bicycles.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Oh</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Yeah.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> So you were on a farm. Did you go into town much? Into the town of Richland?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, it was a five-mile drive on the school bus. Back then we didn't have t</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">hese factory-made school buses. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Generally a farmer would say, I'd like to build a bus and hire it to haul the students.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, there was an aisle down the center that you sat back to back to and then down each side. And it was just</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">made out of an old truck. And we didn't know what heaters were. Wintertime got pretty cold.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But--</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">[PHONE RINGS]</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">No cellphones then</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> either.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Huh?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">No cellphones then either.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I meant to take it out. But I forgot it.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">That's all right.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I think I was in about the third grade when we got factory manufactured school bu</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ses. And they looked as long as </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">a train. And there was three of them. And that picked up stude</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">nts all over the Richland area. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And then it wasn't too long after that the government came in and the area just </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">exploded. And it was surprising </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">when you had to, how fast they could put buildings up. They had people in here.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> They added onto the school and </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">built more schools. But after '43 I wasn't here much.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Did you start going to school in Kennewick then at that point?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes. I think I was in the fifth grade when we moved to Kennewick.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I was wondering about sort of community activities. Do you have any memories of c</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ommunity picnics or 4th of July </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">celebrations? Anything along those lines?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, yes.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> In that time, the boat races--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">that would be equivalent t</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">o what we have now here in the Tri-C</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ities—was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">up at White Bluffs. And I remember, several times being young, going up there and watch the boat r</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">aces. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">th</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">en there was community picnics. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I remember looking at some books at the county fair, before they registered at th</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e picnics, they had them. Found </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">a couple where my folks, my dad registered as being at the picnic, 4th of July picnic, I think they</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> were. Then there </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">was plenty of family gatherings. Maybe two, three, four families would get together </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and go to the park. But I don't </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">know, it never seemed like we lacked activity.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">What about churches? Were churches close by? Did your family go to church regularly? And where were they?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">What</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> church, you say?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah, churches</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Well, my folks heard the G</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ospel by</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> two homeless ministers in 19</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">21. And the chur</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ch met in a home. And I'm still </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">in that faith today. We don't have church buildings. So there was churches in t</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">own. But they accepted that way </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and the family grew up in it.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. So you mentioned earlier, talking about the Depression, and how your fat</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">her then sort of changed crops, </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">right? Primary crops. Did you know of any families in the area that maybe lost th</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">eir farms? Or did you see any </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">other impact of the Depression for other families or for the town itself?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Well, my uncle</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> lost his--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">that lived, oh, half mile or less from us. And I remember my dad saying he wanted him to</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">financially help him. He was a bachelor. He had never married until he was 82, I think. And then he married his</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">sweetheart</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> that he had when he was young.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And neither one of them, they were </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">married. They got back together </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">in old age.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">That's quite a story. Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But anyway, my dad had to decline him because he said, Jim, I've got a family. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> if I did that I would probably </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">lose my farm too. And you're single. Realized I hate to say no. But I just don't have i</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">t where I can feel that I could </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">do it. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">there were others the same way. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But you have to remember that I was-- that was not something I can physically r</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">emember. I was too early in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">'30s. I was born in '32. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> remember him talking about ones</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> that sold out or it didn</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">'t have any equity and couldn't </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">make payments. But my father was very frugal. He didn't buy what he couldn't afford,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> which was very little, that he bought. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But yes, when my father decided to push out the orchard, we had a big enough orcha</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">rd. In fact, it was the largest apple orchard in the Tri-C</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ities. I can't tell you how many acres it was. But it was 15 acres or so.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Do you know what kind of apples?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">At that time, Red Delicious. But he made the decision to take the apples out</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> beca</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">use every year he'd be losing a </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">little more money. And plant peppermint. Well, 100 pounds to the acre of peppermin</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">t oil was considered excellent. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And I never remember hi</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">m getting less than 100 pounds. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And I remembered selling for $7 a pound. And today the price of oil isn't that much bett</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">er. It's just that the farmers' </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">farms are a lot bigger.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Mm-hm.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> I think, from what I've heard, I know some people that a</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">re farming peppermint and $9 or </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">$10 I think would be an excellent price now.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So what happened with your uncle then? He lost his farm you said? What did he do at that point?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">My uncle?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">M</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">m-</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">hm.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">He moved to Oregon. And lived in Troutdale for quite a while. I think he just hired </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">out. He was a stonemason, brick </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">mason. And I think he made a living at that.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I want to ask you a little bit about, you talked about the war a little bit and that you</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">r older brothers all joined and </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">went to serve. Do you remember hearing about the war? And have any memories about that at all?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah, when the war come on, </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">some time</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> during that we got a radio. And I k</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">now my dad listened to the news </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">every evening. My oldest brother, Edward, that was born in Oregon and was the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">only one that wasn't born here, was drafted into the A</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">rmy. And he took his training down in one of the southern st</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ates. I can't remember for sure now if it was Texas, or--. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Anyway, they ended up sending him to a little place by Washington</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> D</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">C</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> that they cal</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">l </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span class="SpellingError SCX30075691">Vint</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Hill Farms. And it was a </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">training, a special training area. And he worked there as, we'd probably called it </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">a cadre that helps do training. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But there everything was coal fire</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. So in the wintertime they had to keep the furnace going and the hot water</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">heater going and snow </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">removal or whatever. And he never did go overseas. But he was on a laundry run.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And he was riding in the back of a deuce and a half army truck. And a Lincoln hi</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">t the truck head on. And he was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">thrown up against the cab and killed. So he wasn't-- he didn't see overseas action</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. But I remember that was a sad </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">day for the family.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I imagine. You mentioned having the radio. Did your family get that before the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">war or at some point during the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">war, you remember?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">It was during the war. I don't remember. We didn't have a radio while we were still in Richland.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Oh, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. You got it after you have moved to Kennewick at some point.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. So how did you get news when you were in Richland? Was there a local newspaper?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah, there was a newspaper. And don't ask me if</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> it was daily or weekly or semi-</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">we</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ekly. But well, I guess, in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">old days,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> we took the Spokesman Review. I don’t think--there wasn't a local newspaper. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">h</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ere might've been a weekly. But </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">you're getting too far back in my brain.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah, do you know how your family found out about the war, that United States w</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">as going to war? Was it through </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">the newspaper? Or sort of word of mouth?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, I think all the above. You know, neighbors were close and we did get th</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e Spokesman Review. And I don't </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">know if it was a day late. I think it came down on the trai</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">n. So it could be the same day. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">At that time Pasco, its main industry was the train. A train town. And Richland was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">just a little farming community </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">along with White Bluffs and Hanford.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Right. And then was it in the spring of '43 that you first heard about that the g</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">overnment was coming in and was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">going to be taking people--</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Yes, y</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">es. 1943.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But your family, you have sort of the rest of that growing season. Is that right?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, it must've been later in February or maybe first part of March that that h</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">appened. I suppose there's some </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">way I could find out. But I do know that the ones that lived in what we call downt</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">own Richland didn't get to stay </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and farm their crop. And we did.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah. I wonder if there's anything that we haven't talked about yet that you think wo</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">uld be important to talk about, </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">something you know, about growing up in Richland, ab</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">out the community itself, about </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">farming?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, we had a great swimming pool, Columbia River. Also fishing. Never had a fan</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">cy fishing pole. But go down to </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">the river and cut off a large willow, tie the line on the end of it. Works </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">good</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">What</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> sort of fish did you catch with that?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Probably mostly carp. Occasionally we'd get an edible fish.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> But we enjoyed doing it</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. Some real hot days, the whole </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">family would go to the river. Our firewood, you could put on what they call a boom ou</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">t on the river. It'd be several </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">logs fastened together with chain or cable. And have </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">an anchor out on the upper end. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So it would catch all the wood that was coming down. And that's where we got th</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e firewood. And for the icebox, </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">we'd go down and my dad would saw chunks of ice out of the river and we had a</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> sawdust bin that we would bury </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">the ice in there and it would last long ways into the summer. So things were a littl</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e bit crude back then. But none </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">of us died from it. We all made it.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Right. [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">What about in the winter? You know, in terms of the river, the river ever freeze ove</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">r? What sorts of things did you </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">do? Any things that you can say--</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">All I can remember about that is that what I've been told. I think I was about two ye</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ars old when it froze over. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">they even drove cars across it. I don't think we had any bridges at that time. It wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s a ferry that would ferry cars across. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And it seems like the winters don't get as cold as they used to here. I don't know if it'</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s a cycle or what it is. But my </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">younger years, we could ice skate on the river, most all winters.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Mm-hm. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So that was something you did in the winter then</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> for fun</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, I don't remember doing a whole lot. But you know, the river is danger</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ous, and we knew it back then, i</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">f the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ice only goes out a sma</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ll ways. So my folks wouldn't--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I just know that my folks would</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">n't have let us go to the river </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">to ice skate if the ice wasn't thick enough.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And you mentioned a ferry. Where was the ferry landing?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Well, there was the ferry la</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">nding down at what's Columbia Point</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> now. An</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d there was another one between </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Kennewick and Pasco. There was another one up at Hanford, one across. It would come and go as the need</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> was. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But I remember the first bridge across the Columbia was long enough ago that I can't really remember it.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. I want to ask you a little bit about your employment at Hanford. When did yo</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">u start working at Hanford? And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">how long did you work there? And what sort of work did you do there?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, I graduated high school in 1951. And of course, we were still farming the gr</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ound. I did take a job in wheat </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">harvest. And my brother stayed and did the chores that had to be done through the summer. And so my mother</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">paid him what I made, the same amount that I made. So it wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s like both of us having a job. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">After wheat harvest </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">was over in September of 1952--I think it was, yeah, 1952--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I w</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ant out and applied for work at </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Hanford. And I got a job in the power department, running the steam boilers and tur</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">bines and that's out there. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I worked there for 14 y</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ears. It was all under GE then. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I finished up in what was called the N Reactor. And that's when they built a st</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">eam power plant just across the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">fence from the N Reactor. And I applied for a job there with, at that time was t</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">he Washington Public Power. Now </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">it's Energy Northwest. And I stayed there until '72 when I got the craz</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">y idea of being a farmer again. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And haven't really regretted it. You go from being carrying a dinner pail to being</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> a businessman in one sense. It </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">takes a l</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ot of money to farm these days. </span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man</span> 1: </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Sorry, one last time. It looks like battery.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man</span> 2: </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Oh.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Man</span> 1: </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Pretty low.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">You can prompt me on anything you want to.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">What's that?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">You can prompt me.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Oh, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. I'm going to ask you just a little bit more about you working at Hanfor</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d. You mentioned working for GE </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and at the N Reactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> and ask you where else at Hanford you worked?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">You asked me where I met my wife. I can give you a little more on that.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">There you go. And then I may ask you about I know President Kennedy had the official ceremony, right, in '63.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And I'll ask you if you were there.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I was still working for GE. And it was Thursday morning. I had to work a swing shift</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> that day. So I just stayed out </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">there.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So you mentioned working for GE for a number of years. And then you said you e</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">nded up with you working at the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">N Reactor. I wonder before that, what other parts of the Hanford site you worked at?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, I started at the C Reactor in the power department. C. B and C were right </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">together. Actually it was the B </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">reactor. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Then I got drafted in the army. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And in D</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ecember I went in the service to--t</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">hey sent my back to Virginia for training. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">nd when the training with over, </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">took a troop ship to Korea. I spent two years in Korea. Part of the time I was f</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">irst service. War was still on. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And then after my two-year stay I came home and they put me back on o</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ut there. At that time I'd been </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">communicating with my future wife</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. And my twin brother, h</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e had a bad ea</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">r and they wouldn't accept him. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Ironically we was going with sisters. But they weren't twins. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">so they decided to get married. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">So they got a two-year head start on us when I came home. Well, my wife, Bever</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ly, and I got married. And been </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">married ever since.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> And how had</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> the two of you met? When did you meet?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">We was in school together. And the same way with my brother and his wife.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And so how many years is that now?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Boy, you're--</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER] I'm testing him</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Off camera speaker:</span> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">It'll be 60 next year.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> That's</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">--</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Wow, almost 60.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">It's getting awful close to 60.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah, wow. And so you mentioned you were in Korea for two years. And the war wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s still going on when you first </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">arrived?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes. Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And what sorts of--</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I went in and they put me in the medics. And I took my medic training down in C</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">amp Pickett, Virginia. And then </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">sent me to Korea. I was a medic.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And then one other thing I wanted to ask you about, during your time working at</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Hanford, President Kennedy was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">here in, I believe it was September of '63. August or September of '63 to dedicate the N reactor.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I was wondering if you were there at that time and if you have memories of that?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I was. I was there. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> witnessed his groundbreaking. H</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">e flew in in a helicopter and fl</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ew out in a helicopter. I think </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">probably went up to Moses Lake, where they parked the plane</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> And it was interesti</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ng that I happened to be on the </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">swing shift at that time. So when the ceremony was over I had to go over to the plant and start my shift.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Was there extra security that day? Or do you have any memories of a lot of people there?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Very much so. You know, that was just not long before he was assassinated. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">nd there was a lot of security. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">There was three helicopters came in. And the doors opened on all three of them</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. They come to land, you didn't know which one he was on. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But the first thing you seen was they pulled a machine gun up in the doorway.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> And they looked all directions </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">before they left anybody off. And there was a big crowd there. That was very interesting.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Mm-hm.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Were there any other events during your time when you worked at the Hanford site that sort of</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> stand out? Any </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">significant happenings or anything that sort of stands out in your memory?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> They formed a rescue</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> crew out there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> They outfitted an older bus. And I thin</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">k there was about three or four different crews, maybe five. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">We never did</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> get called to an event, like there's been several around the Unite</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d States since. But that's what </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">we were trained for. And I was on one of those crews because I'd been a medic i</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">n the army, was the reason they </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">put me on there. We had drills. But neve</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">r had to go to an actual event. </span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And obviously Hanford was a place where security was very important. Di</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">d you do have to have a special </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">clearance to work there? Or what do you remember about some security processes?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, yes. I had what they called a Q clearance, which was top clearance, wi</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">th everybody that was full time </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">employed. That the only ones that would get out there was if they had to have a </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">special person, something broke </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">down and had to go out there. And then he had to have an escort. And they told us</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> that you don't talk about what work it is on the job. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">But at that time, Hanford wasn't classified top secret anymore. After the bomb</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s were dropped on Hiroshima and </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Nagasaki, that's when they found out what Hanford was building.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Were you able to drive your own car out to the site where you were working? Or would you have to take a bus?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Oh, we had to take an expensive bus ride.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> They charged us a nickel each way. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">nd nobody could afford to drive </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">their cars. If you did, </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">you</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> car pooled. But because the buses didn't have any air cond</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">itioning, just the windows. But </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">as long as </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I worked for GE I rode the bus. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">When I started working for Washington Public Power we car pooled. They didn't h</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ave an option. But they paid us </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">for travel time.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And how long did you work for Washington Public Power then?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Seven years.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Seven years. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">'65 to '72?</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> So anything else that I haven't asked you about, either ab</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">out growing up on the farm here </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">in Richland or about your work at Hanford that you'd like to talk about or you thi</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">nk is important that we haven't </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">talked about yet?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Something serious?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> Oh, either way. No, it can</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> be funny.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, I remember when my twin brother and I was out and we had a watermel</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">on patch. And we thought it was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">time to pick the watermelons. And we'd pick a </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">whole pile of them. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">My dad said, well, those aren't ripe yet. We'll have to feed those to the pigs. So the</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> pigs got watermelon early. But you know, we would--</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">that's some of our pastime would be walk</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> around the neighbors and such. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">There wasn't too many dull moments. Especially, my mother used to say that when </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">you have twins, well, one can't </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">think of the other kin. So I guess you can take from that what you want.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Yeah. If you had to sort of sum up for someone who wouldn't know much about the area, what it wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">s like growing </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">up in the small community at the time, growing up on a farm at the time, what would you tell them?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, that there wasn't many dull moments. I think there's an advantage that ki</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">ds today don't have. We grew up </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">having responsibility to know that there might be a little time for play. Bu</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">t they're also work to be done. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I can remember going out in the fields of whole peppermint and my dad would</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> take two rows where my brother </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">and I, we'd take one apiece and pull the weeds out. And we'd fill up a gallon </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">jug of water. Had a burlap sack </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">wrapped around it and dipped it in water before we went out. And that would k</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">eep cool. That was our drinking water. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Had to come in in time for chores. We milked as many as five head of cows. But at the time my dad got </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">sick we </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">only had two milk cows. And a couple of </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">horses and several young stock. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">And then there was 4H and FFA. That was after we moved to Kennewick. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> can't remember much more about </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Richland, only being 12 years old and there's probably more. But I'll think about </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">it after our interview is over. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">I remember riding the bus was quite a treat. When we got the new buses in Richland i</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">t was, as I said, I think I was </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">in about the third grade. It was quite a treat. And they said there was heaters in them. But we coul</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">dn't tell when </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">winter come</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">. </span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Didn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> feel like it. </span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691">
<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">They weren't very efficient.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Well, thank you very much. This has been really interesting, very informative. I appr</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">eciate it. You’ve been great. </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Thanks very much.</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX30075691">
<p class="Paragraph SCX30075691"><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Kaas</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX30075691">Have you interviewed others?</span><span class="EOP SCX30075691"> </span></p>
</div>
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Gordon Kaas
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
01:02:57
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
232kbps
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
N Reactor
B Reactor
C Reactor
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1915-2013
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1952-1972
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Kaas, Nelson
Kaas, George
Kaas, Edward
Chapman, Alice
Perry, Jay
Mitchell, Cameron
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Gordon Kaas
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Gordon Kaas conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-06-8: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
White Bluffs (Wash.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
6/12/2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
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video/mp4
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The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
B Reactor
C Reactor
Hunting
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Kennewick (Wash.)
N Reactor
Pasco (Wash.)
Richland (Wash.)
swimming
White Bluffs (Wash.)
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F7f7715623100afbb66dd47e73de6f561.jpg
0002ffe11948b43311ebb7a961d5a628
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F9ebfcd597b679760a742fd7933925b23.mp4
ed164cfe7bd11e113062417f98a3f61a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
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Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Jack McElroy
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span class="SpellingError SCX152878036">McElroy_Jack</span></span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></strong></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">All right. We'll go ahead and started then.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Jack McElroy</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> We could maybe start by having you say your name</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">and spell it for us.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah. My name is a Jack McElroy. It's J-A-C-K M-C-E-L-R-O-Y.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Great. Thank you. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">nd today's date is October 22</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX152878036">nd</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> of</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> 2013. And we're conducting this interview on the campus of</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Washington State University Tri-Cities. So let's start if we could by having you talk about when you came to work</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">at Hanford initially, what brought you here.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Right. I was born at Grand Coulee Dam when my folks came out here from North Carolina and grew up in</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Spokane. And they came out here to work on the dam. After it was completed, we moved Spokane. I grew up</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So at Lewis and Clark High School I took all their math and science classes. And in my senior year,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Hanford started an engineering technician development program. And I was hired directly from high school by</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">General Electric. And I came here in the summer of 1955 and started working.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I was at the large central store's administration building next to the bus lot for a couple months while they obtained</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">our Q clearances. And the program also involved sending us to classes. So during that time, we also started going</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">to classes. So I basically came here in 1955 at the age of 18 directly out of high school.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">How many students were there? How many--</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">There was about 20 of us that they recruited. There were several of us from Spokane. In fact, we formed a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">carpool and would go back to Spokane almost every weekend using the ferry that was here </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">at North Richland,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">went over to South Landing on the Pasco side. And that was the quickest way to get back and forth.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And so how long did you do that then?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I did that for a year and a half. And I had some great rotations. And at th</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">e same time that I signed on down</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> here, I</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">joined the Air National Guard out in Spokane.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And I was interested in flying. So in 1957, I actually left here to go into the pilot training program. But I probably</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ought to back up to my experiences here.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I want to ask you about, you said a dif</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ferent rotation. What sort of</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">--</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah. My first assignment was</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> radiation monitoring in a 325 B</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">uilding, where I was basically a technician</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">supporting chemists and also other radiation monitors. I learned a lot about the radiation and monitoring and so</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> on, which was limited </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">to the radio c</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">hemistry labs there in the 325 B</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">uilding. My second assignment took me</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">out to the 1</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">00 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">reas, where I worked for Larry McEwen </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">and the heat transfer group.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And I was assigned to his group in the hydraulics lab that was at the 1</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">00-D and D A</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">rea. And I brought in a picture</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> and ga</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ve that to you of me working there in the lab. I met some really great chemical engineers there including a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> guy that would have an e</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ffect in my life later on </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">by the name of John Batch</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> who was a PhD from Purdue.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And they had quite an influence on my future as it turned out. My next assignment, I went to radiation monitoring</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> again with Herm Pass </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">in the 100 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">reas. And he was stationed</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">the</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">y had an office at the 100-D, D A</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">rea</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">also.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And while I was on</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> that</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> assignment, I was very fort</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">unate to be involved in the 105-</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">B outage. And during that outage,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">we supported th</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">e changing out of the old curli</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">cue pig tails. They basically looked like the real pig tail</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">, and t</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">hat's how they got their name. The</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">y were formed just like a curli</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">cue. And they were on the front face of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">r</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">eactors. And in 1956, on the B R</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">eactor, they changed those out and put in stainless steel, flexible hoses and</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">pipes.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And so I was there at the reactor at that time supporting that operation.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">How long did that take?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Oh, it was just a month or so to actually do that. And that was actually my last assignment. And I did pretty good</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">and actually achieved radiation monitor status before I left and went into the Air Force in early 1957.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Of those different assignments, did you have one that you enjoyed the most?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I think t</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">he radiation monitoring at 100 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">reas. I got to go out to all the different reactors. I was able to go the rear</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">face on occasion. I mean, the rear face is a really hot, hot area.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So you had to stay out to the side. But at least I was able to see the rear faces on the reactors and the front faces</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">on several reactors. And so that was a very exciting assignment. But it was the hydraulics lab and heat transfer</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">unit that probably had the biggest impact on me later on when I decided to go to college after I was in the Air</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Force.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And so what sort of work did you do in the hydraulics lab?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Basically took measurements of fluid flow. And then I did an awful lot of graphing for the engineers and realized at</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">that time that, geez, if I had a degree, I could be having somebody else do the graphs for me. So it was very</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">interesting.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And you said that you and a group of you </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">would drive to Spokane often,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> ba</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">sically </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">on weekends. Where did</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">you stay? </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">when</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> you--</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">When we came here, they put us up in the Sanfor</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">d Hotel, which was on Swift Boulevard</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">. It's since been removed. But it</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">was an old army barracks type of place and had simple bunk beds and so on in it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">But in 1955, the government started turning the city over to the community</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> basically. And things like prefab</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">became available for renting. And so on a group of four of us actually applied for a prefab and ended up in a one</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">bedroom prefab at 1213 Potter Street. And it was a little bit crowded, but we had a ball.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And what was the community of Richland like at the time, 1955, </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">'56</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: It s</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">till had a mess hall. You could go to the mess hall there downtown just across from where the post office is at</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">now and have a large buffet dinner and eat there. As I said, we stayed in the little hotel, barracks type hotel.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> Uptown T</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">heater was there. It was pretty normal, small community.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And so you were here for a year and a half or so.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And then if you can talk about what you did and what brought you back to Hanford.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah. Well, I left to go in the military. And I actually became a pilot and an officer and came back to the</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Washington </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Air </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">National Guard up at Geiger Field and basically, at that time, decided, well, this is a great opportunity</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">for me to go back to school. So I went to Gonzaga University while I was flying with the Guard and Air Force.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And I received a Bachelor of Science in chemical engineering. And GE hired me immediately to bring me back</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">down here. So I was back down here in July of 1963. So I was gone for about six years.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Were you hoping to get back to Hanford at some point? Or was that--</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">You know, I didn't know. I really didn't know </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">what life had in store for me, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ut it just kept changing and</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">progressing. And I was certainly glad to get back down here once I had the opportunity.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So when you came back in 1963, then what sort of work were you doing? What areas were you working in?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: I kind of stumbled, or fate </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">or something steered me into waste management and the group that was pioneering</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">the development of waste treatment technology for handling radioactive waste. And they were just based, had a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">lot of their people, in a 321 B</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">uilding, which was a building that had a lot of history. Other people may have</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">mentioned it, but it had a lot of history for developing separations technology for the site.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And at the time I was there, it was actually being used to develop which treatment technology. And so I got in with</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">that group. And I spent three or four months with them learning about vitrification and also something called</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">calcining, where you take liquid waste and heat it up, and drive off a lot of the volatile materials and turn it into a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">powder. And then from that, we would melt it, vitrify it, </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">make</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> glasses.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So that was my first assignment. Second a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ssignment, I went out to 100-N A</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">rea and had a great assignment there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I was a process engineer. And I was actually out there at the site when President Kennedy came in 19</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">was 1963, prior to the assassination of course</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">and saw him </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">speak. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> that was a great event. And N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">eactor</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">was a great reactor. It's unfortunate that we had to shut it down the way we did.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Do you have any specific memories from the day that President Kennedy was here?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Not really, no. I definitely remember being out there and seeing him, and hearing him talk, and the helicopters,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">pretty routine stuff. Yeah. I had one other rotation at PRTR, Plutonium Recycle Test Reactor, where I worked </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">on </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">the containment system for them.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">But in 1964, it was announced that they were going to shut down all the reactors. And so I decided it was time for</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">me to pick a permanent assignment. And so I went back to the waste management group.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I don't know if </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I mentioned their names, but Al</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> Platt </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">and </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Carl Cooley were heading up that</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">organization. And they were real pioneers for developing waste treatment technology and working with other</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">international people like in England and France at that time. So I got in with that group and had a lot of great</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">opportunities with them.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">You mentioned as early as '63 they were already starting to work on vitrification sort of technologies?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">What other sorts of technologies and waste treatment were being researched or worked on?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">At that time, it was primarily calcination and vitrification and looking at three different products, either a calcine</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">powdery dry product for final storage or either phosphate glass or borosilicate glass. And also there was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">phosphate ceramic at the time. So it really hadn't been decided what was going to be the choice for the US, what</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> direction we</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> were going to go with the treatment technology.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And in the program I was in starting a '65, we actually demonstrated with r</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">adioactive material in the 324 B</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">uilding</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">several different technologies with all these different products. And from that, we chose to go with borosilicate</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">glass, which is the current standard for product form for high level radioactive waste.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And what led you to that</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> sort of</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> solution?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">The processes that we demonstrated, basically that seemed to be one of the best. We actually made it with in-can</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">melting, a spray calciner, and in-can melter. I brought in another photograph of that showing all this equipment in</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">the cell with the spray cal</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ciner setting over </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">an in-can melter. And basically the product from that, the</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">borosilicate glass, turned out to be the best product in terms of its durability. And also the process, in-can melting,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">was a pretty straightforward simple process to--</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Can you explain that a little</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> bit</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">, just a little detail?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah. Basically we sprayed liquid waste into the spray calciner, which is heated to about 700 degrees centigrade.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And as the droplets came down, they dried. And it would be hot enough to where you'd get rid of all the nitrates</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">and convert it to oxides.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And the oxides would then fall down into the melter. We had a couple different </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span class="SpellingError SCX152878036">melters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> at the time. We were</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ac</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">tually looking at a continuous </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">melter, that was made out of platinum and far too expensive, and the in-can</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">melter, which is made out of Inconel. And we would add additives, boron and silica, to the calcine, and then heat</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">them up to over 1,000 degrees centigrade in either the melter or the in-can melter and convert to the glass.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So about what time period was this conclusion made to go with vitrification?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">The program was from '65 to '71. And so it was around 1970 that we basically decided that the borosilicate glass</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">was the preferred route. And then things changed. And they actually didn't support doing </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">any waste </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">work for</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">about a year and started it backup in 1972.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And in 1972, I was recruited to be the manager for the development of the vitrification program. I was recruited by</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Al Platt, who I mentioned earlier and John </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Batch, </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">who was one of the PhD chemical engineers out</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">at the 100-D R</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">eactor at the time I was there as a technician. So it kind of came back around again with one of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">people that I word for earlier. So they recruited me to head up the program to further develop technology for using</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> in the United States, </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">for vitrifying high level waste.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So were you actually able to begin the process of [INAUDIBLE]?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">In '72, we started building the program with the focus on the spray calciner and in-can melter, which was the</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">choice from that earlier program</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> and also decided it was time to look at something that would handle large</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">quantities</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> of waste</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">, such as what they have here at Hanford. Because when you just melt in a can, you're pretty well limited</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">in terms of size and processing rate. So in 1972, I hired an engineer, actually Battelle hired him.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Hanford Labs under General Electric became the Pacific Northwest Laboratories under Battelle. And so in 1972, I</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">was then working for Battelle. And at that time, we started developing and hiring engineers.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And so one of the engineers was Chris Chapman out of Kansas. He was a mechanical engineer. And we put</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">him in charge of developing a new melter technology, a Joule-heated ceramic melter.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> to</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> jump further </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ahead,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">the </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Joule-heater ceramic melter now is the heart of the waste treatment plant. There's</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">two of them in the low activity waste facility and two in the high level waste facility. But anyway, we started</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">developing that technology in early '70s. And by 1975, we had </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">a prototype working in the 324 B</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">uilding of a liquid</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">-fed </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Joule-heated ceramic melter. And I brought in a picture of that also to share with you.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So that's almost 40 years ago now that you really started developing some of that technology.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Right. If you </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">add that up, that's probably</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> 41 years. So it's over 40 years.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah, time flies. Anyway, that technology</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">1977</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">we were developing most of this technology actually for the</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">commercial nuclear fuel cycle with the expectation that the United States would develop reprocessing and have a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">complete fuel cycle here. In 1977, President Carter put a moratorium on reprocessing and that just threw</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">everything into turmoil.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And fortunately, there was a gentleman by the name of Frank </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span class="SpellingError SCX152878036">Baranowski</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> that was running the Department of</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Energy Defense Waste sites. And he chose to pick up the technology. And so we then turned all of our efforts</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">from the commercial fuel cycle to supporting the Defense Waste facilities.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So we spent several years working with DuPont to transfer the know-how for the spray calciner and in-can melter</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">, as well as the Joule-heated</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> melter for use down at Savannah River. And they ini</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">tially started out choosing the </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">spray calciner and in-can melter. But after they figured that there was a huge cost savings by eliminating the tall</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">calciner in terms of canyon height for hot cells and processing cells, they decided to go with the Joule-heated</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">melter.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So we worked with DuPont and helped them get that technology in place in the Defense Waste Processing facility</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">at Savannah River. And it's been very successful. It's been running for about 20 years.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So you came initially in 1955--</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: --and the focus at Hanford was </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">production</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">nd came back in the '60s. It was just about to shift to definitely reduced</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> production, right, and then--</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I guess if you look back at that, you've seen a lot of the changes in mission, changes in technology.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">In thinking back to the years you worked</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> at Hanford and the changes</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> what--</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I mean, obviously impacted your work</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">in terms of what you were focusing on. But the changes in technology must've impacted your work as well.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah. I still do a little consulting. It turned out to be a hot area,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> waste management. So I'm still involved in it on a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">small part-time basis. I've retired two or three times. And I actually ran a small company for Battelle</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> out there</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> called</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span class="SpellingError SCX152878036">Geosafe</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">We actually went out and we developed another technology called in-situ vitrification, where we literally </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">clean up</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">sites by putting electrodes in the ground and melting the earth and the soil. And we brought that along and made</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">it to where it was capable of actually using the same method to melt in a large container. And so for a while here,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Hanford was looking at that technology, it was called bulk vitrification, as a way of</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> supplementing the current </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span class="SpellingError SCX152878036">V</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span class="SpellingError SCX152878036">it</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">P</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">lant. And it's possible that that technology might still have a use here at Hanford.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Mm-hm. </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">So you came back and '63. And then how long did you stay working at [INAUDIBLE]?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I worked for 30 years as an engineer and retired in '95 from Battelle. But I retired to run a small company for</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Battelle, the </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span class="SpellingError SCX152878036">Geosafe</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">company</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">In looking back at the various things you've worked on, was there a part of your work, an aspect of the work that</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">you found most challenging or part of it that you found the most rewarding?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Probably the most challenging and rewarding was trying to make thin</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">gs work in a hot cell. The 324 B</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">uilding</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">which is still there and may be there for a while, because there's contamination under the cell where we were</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">doing the processing. Making things work, making them reliable, and getting week-long tests completed without</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">major interruptions that was very challenging and very rewarding.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And it could be done. Sometimes the only way to solve the problem was to put it in a hot cell and make it work.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">You could spend a lon</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">g time outside playing around, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ut you really didn't know what the issues and problems</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">were until you put in it in there and tried to do it.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And then also during your years at Hanford, were there any incidents that stand out or problems or events that</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">happened that stand out in your mind above some of the others?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: Hmm. </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Not reall</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">y. I mean, some little events, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ut probably wouldn't want to put them on tape.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> I would have to say that I</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">am so amazed at the Manhattan Project and what they did so quickly and successfully.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And even when I came here in '55 and then on in the '60s, we were able to do things pretty quickly. I mean, we</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">could build it, put it in, </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">test</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> it. And somewhere '70s, '80s, things started to get too bogged down in paperwork and</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">overly cautious. The safety culture was always there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> But some</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">how or another the safety culture got to where it really slowed things down. And it's unfortunate. It just</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">takes too long now to get things done.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Is there any specific examples of concerns about safety or security that sort of thing that you can think of?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Just th</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">e requirements for dotting the i's and crossing the t</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">'s and undergoing inspections and being afraid. I mean,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I mentioned that sometimes the best way to get something done was to put it in there and make it work. Now, you</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">can't put it in there until you're positive it's going to work. The </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span class="SpellingError SCX152878036">Vit</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> plant's a great example of that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And they have a truly big concern associated with these Pulse Jet Mixer tanks in the black cells, where they're</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">going to be in there for 40 years. And I mean, that's a legitimate concern. But the fact is I believe that 90% of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">waste could be processed without that concern. And then we're holding up the whole plant because of this other</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">10% of the waste. And that's frustrating.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Looking back on your time working at Hanford, how </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">would </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">you a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ssess, overall, your experiences working at </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I had a great, great career, great experiences. A lot of memories, a lot of good memories, a lot of great people.</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And I raised my family here, too, my wife Carol, and daughter Toni and Jill. They're Bombers. It was Col High,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Columbia High</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> at t</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">he time that they went to high school there. Now, it's Richland High School. And they had a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">great, great life and experience here also.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I wonder if you could talk about the relationship between Hanford the workplace and then the community. How</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">would you describe that relationship as y</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">ou were living here in the '60s and</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> '70s?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I don't know, just business as usual. I don't set it apart from any of the other businesses around the area in terms</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">of being different or unique. So just business as usual to me.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I wonder</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> is there anything I haven't asked you about yet related to your work experience at Hanford or something</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">that you'd like to share or talk about that you hav</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">en't had a chance to talk about </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">yet?</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I don't think so.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">I wanted to make sure.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">There's probably something I'll think about later.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Yeah. [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">That happens.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah, of course, right.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman:</span> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Well, I want to thank you for coming in today. This is a really interesting</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">as someone who came like you said as</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">just out of high school</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> really.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Yeah</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> I think that is kind of a fortuitous event</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> to come directly out of high school as something like this and to be a</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">part of history. It basically impacted my life and my future decisions of where I was going to go and what I was</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">going to do</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> very positively.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">And then you came back in a very different capacity in many ways.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">Well, thank you again for coming in.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">McElroy</span>: Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036">. Thank you.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX152878036"><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: I appreciate your coming and</span><span class="TextRun SCX152878036"> talking to us.</span><span class="EOP SCX152878036"> </span></p>
</div>
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:28:00
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
198kbps
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
325 Building
100 Area
100-D Reactor
D Area
100-N Area
N Reactor
B Reactor
Plutonium Recycle Test Reactor
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1955-1957
1963-2013
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1955-1957
1963-1993
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
McEwen, Larry
Batch, John
Pass, Herm
Platt, Al
Cooley, Carl
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Chapman, Chris
Baranowski, Frank
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Jack McElroy
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Jack McElroy conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
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Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date Modified
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2016-06-15: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
10/22/2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Hanford Waste Vitrification Plant (Wash.)
Nuclear weapons plants--Health aspects--Washington (State)--Hanford Site Region
100 Area
100-D Reactor
100-N Area
324 Building
325 Building
B Reactor
D Area
Hanford (Wash.)
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
N Reactor
Pasco (Wash.)
Plutonium Recycle Test Reactor (PRTR)
Richland (Wash.)
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Ffd574834b9e91334555bb134407a78ff.jpg
c7a06ce1bcaa7cf7ff7b35701c99c37a
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F935d35ec4e72a2fdefbfaff051d8a29d.mp4
8bcb13d04c4911f897a5aaab7e50965b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Jack Rhoades
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX78204124">
<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span class="SpellingError SCX78204124">Rhoades_Jack</span></span></strong><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Bauman</span>: Okay. We'll go ahead and start. And if we could start by having you say your name and then spell it for us.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: Sure, my name is Jack L., middle initial </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">for</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> Lewis, Rhoades, </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">R</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">-H-O-A-D-E-S.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Great. Thank you very much. And my name is Bob Bauman and this is October 16</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX78204124">th</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> of 2013. And we're conducting this interview on the campus of Washington State University, Tri-Cities. So let's start with, if you could talk about your family's background. What brought them here? What brought you and your family here to the Tri-Cities, and when, and that sort of thing?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: Sure, well my dad worked for DuPont in the early '40s--like '40, '41, '42--in a TNT plant for the war effort, and he had a college degree in chemistry. So when the Manhattan Project kicked off in late '43, he was one of the people selected out of DuPont's Joliette Plant to go down and train on the chemistry of plutonium at Clinton Works, which later became Oak Ridge, Tennessee. It was located in Oak Ridge, probably an Army Depot at the time. And when he was transferred to the Clinton Works, why, my mom and my younger sister and I—I would have been about four then—went back to the ranch in Colorado and lived with her parents until my father got transferred up here to Hanford in like April of '44. And we finally got a house, or were on line to get a house, by August '44. And so what I can remember--I mean I was a young kid, but this was pretty traumatic, all the excitement of the war effort--but my mom got a telegram, which was hand-carried out to the farm by the postman. And it just simply said, go to Denver, get on train such and such. There'll be a one-way ticket for you waiting, get off at Hinkle, Oregon and the government will take care of you from there. So it was amazing because the train had some servicemen on it, but the preponderance of people on this train were women, just like my mother, headed to Hanford with two or three screaming kids. Everybody was trying to carry a couple suitcases, trying to carry a kid or drag a kid. We got off the train in Hinkle, Oregon—which is out like the armpit of America—and it was dark. It was probably midnight. And the Green Hornets, or the old Army buses, were there with a bunch of MPs. And the soldiers were really great. They helped all the women get their luggage off and loaded us all up into buses and drove over-- course we had to go the long way around Wallula Gap to Hanford. And the parking north of the Federal Building was all administrative and dormitories. So my dad had actually been in a dormitory there with a roommate for six months. And so he was out front waiting when the bus got there, along with tens of other guys. And so his roommate had gotten moved to another room, so there was like two cots in there. And my mom and dad had one cot, and my sister and I had another cot. And we lived there for several weeks until his name came up </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">and we moved into an F house on—</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">it's</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> Jadwin now, but it used to be Goethals—down in the 300 block. There used to be Campbell's Grocery Store across the street. That's the way life started for us. I was five at the time, but my birthday was in late October, so I started the first grade in Lewis and Clark, which was one of the first schools that was occupied by students because they were still building the houses toward the north. I think maybe Marcus Whitman was in place, and later on Jefferson was built. But there were so many kids that when my mother took me to school, I was assigned to go to school from 6:00 AM to noon. And then other kids came in and went from 1:00 to like 5:00 or 6:00 at night. And so nobody had a car. You just were on foot. And then of course, the government had the Green Hornet buses for transporting people around town to a limited extent, but mostly for transporting workers out to the 200 Area. My dad was actually was the first plant manager of T Canyon, which was one of the two bismuth phosphate plants for producing uranium from the fuel from B Reactor. He </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">later became the manager of 231-</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Z. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">When </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">they first started processing plutonium, the end result at Hanford was plutonium nitr</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ate, and they had to reduce it. It would</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> come out of T and B Canyon</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">s as a fluid liquid. And so 231-</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Z then con</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">densed it down to like a green Jell-O, and </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">that's what the</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">y flew to Los Alamos. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And then Los Alamo</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">s actually converted the green Jell-O</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> to the metal which went into t</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">he first Trinity explosion. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">even though everybody knows about Nagasaki because of the plutonium there, ther</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">e was actually a third pit that </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">was available. And after Hiroshima, Tibbets flew back to the United States to g</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">et the third pit in case it was </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">needed. But, fortuna</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">tely, the Japanese surrendered. So after the war was over,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> my dad got promoted up to what was called an area supervisor. He man</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">aged all of </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">the plutonium activities because they'd started a new building that was called 234</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">-5, or Z Plant. And Z Plant was </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">the plant that produced the pits during the Cold War, and that's the nuclear core</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">. So what they made down at Los </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Alamos for Trinity and Nagasaki, they transferred the production and the production </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">line up to the building in 234-5 </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">and he was a manager of that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">I remember, in later years, my dad talking about the building was divided into two </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">parts. There was the top secret </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">half and the secret half, and the workers didn't know who was on the othe</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">r side. They had entrances from </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">different directions and they never communicated. And the whole build</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ing had—the doors were like a bank vaults, not three </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">foot thick, but they were steel bank vault doors. And he said he had to memoriz</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">e over 100 combination locks in the building. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">nd to him, that was one of the more challenging tasks that he had to do.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And how long did he work at Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">We left in '50, and it ultimately caused his demise. But he had, according to the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">health physics people, he ended </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">up dying of stomach cancer. And so there was a 50-50 chance that it was cause</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">d by working at Hanford. But he </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">had developed really severe ulcers. And they eventually had to cut out half of his stomach</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> because it just </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">perforated and he</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> kept almost bleeding to death. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And so we moved to Texas and he went into business with one of his brother</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">s in Odessa, Texas selling real </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">estate and insurance. And later moved back in about 1960 and he then worked for Unit</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ed Nuclear, and he was a </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">manage</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">r of extrusion press for N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">eactor fuel. And then later on was hir</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ed by DOE and was a director of </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">safety for DOE.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And what was your father's name?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Paul Gordon Rhoades.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And so during the war period when you were in first grade, did you have any idea of what your father was doing?</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">What he was working on? What his job was?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">No, absolutely nothing. And he was absolutely paranoid about the secrecy aspec</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">t. I can remember that vividly. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And I can remember when news of the bomb was released on the radio, and my</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> mother called him on the phone </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">out at the plant. When she said, did you know that the bomb they dropped on</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> Japan was made in Hanford? And </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">he slammed the phone down, wouldn't even talk to her. He viewed working at Hanford as th</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">e same way a marine </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">would view going ashore in Iwo Jima. It was his duty. In fact, he was not really f</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">or going after the compensation stuff that I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> was voted in in 2000.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Did he at some point then talk about what he was doing out there? What he--</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Not much really. I mean, he did have anecdotes</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">, like</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> talking about the Green Run,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> when they released iodine-139. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And one of the things I remember him talking about was arriving at work in a bus. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And ruthenium is something that </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">can't be filtered out in the sand filters on the plutonium processing plants, and s</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">o it would condense on the side of </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">the towers because the chimney was so tall that it would cool off and then it'd </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">condense on the inside of the--</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Well, every once in a</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">while there'd be a change of conditions and this stuff woul</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">d flake off, and go out the top </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">of the stack, and be like snowflakes falling on the ground, and they have a short liv</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ed half-life. So the guys would </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">get off the bus. They'd have to put on gauze mask and booties and everything, </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">and walk into the building, and </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">then get decontaminated before they </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">entered the building. And then </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">that was the s</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">tart of their eight-hour shift. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">But there was no question that production was paramount. And there's no quest</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ion in my mind that what DuPont </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">did with the knowledge that was available in those days for designing the canyo</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ns and the reactors, was nothing short of brilliant. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And even though people are upset with the environmental contamination--bec</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ause we basically have got five square miles</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">or five by five, 25 s</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">quare miles that's contaminated from the soil to t</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">he groundwater out there in the 200 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">reas. But compared to what they did in Russia, which was dump it straight into the lake that fed out un</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">der </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">the Arctic Circle, DuPont took advantage and was farsighted beyond belief in my </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">professional estimation. I just </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">marvel at how DuPont did on designing the reactor, and designing the canyons, and having them work safely.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">You say your father didn't really</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> talk about it a whole lot--his work—</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">did he ever ex</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">press any concerns about safety </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">at all or was he--</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: Never. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">n fact, DuPont was--as I grew up, and then as I worked later and they w</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ere down at Savannah River, and </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">when I was working at Hanford--DuPont probably had the highest reputation for s</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">afety of any large organization </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">in the nuclear industry. At Savannah River, if a guy climbed up a ladder, and did som</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ething stupid, and fell off and </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">broke his arm at home, and he came</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> to work and they found out that</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> he had b</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">een unsafe at home, then he had </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">time off. I mean</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">, he</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> was punished for what he did on the weekend because he w</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">as not thoughtful in his safety process. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">But DuPont, I held them in extremely high regard, high reputation. And they were, when you think a</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">bout it, they did this for a dollar</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">. They definitely were part of the war effort that sacrificed for the good</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> of America. They weren't in it </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">to make money or anything like that. They just were doing what they were paid to </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">do. And they got out as soon as </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">they could. And then they came back and did </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">a </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">second stint when they were as</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ked. They were the only company </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">that the government trusted. So they built Savannah River.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">I want to go back to talking about when you first arrived and you were five years old, do you remem</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ber any sort of </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">first impressions that you had, or early memories of first arriving in Richland?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Oh, it was, of course, for a kid in the first grade</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> it</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> was</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> exciting because everybody was the same. They were all on</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">foot, and they were all new. In fact, that kind of curiosity anecdote was on the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">first</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> day as I was walking to school </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">with my mother, and we g</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ot about half way to the school. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">nd another woman wh</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">o's coming in on a side street, and she had a little boy. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">nd my mother just about passed out. It turned out i</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">t was her college roommate, who </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">they hadn't seen since she graduated from college. And they both had gone thei</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">r separate ways and it ended up </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">that they are actually living in the house behind us. And they renewed their friends</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">hip from college and it went on </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">until they both passed away.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">You mentioned that in first grade, you started at 6:00 AM. There was so many chi</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ldren that was a way they could </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">serve the needs of all the families</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> with children</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">. How long did that last? Did that last through first grade or--</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Yeah, it p</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">robably did last the first year. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ut by the time the year had</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> gone by and as a year progressed, they were </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">building hutments out alongside the school. So </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">b</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">asically, the first grade was about t</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">he only time I went to </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">school inside of a building. And maybe the sixth grade up in Jefferson</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> I went inside a b</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">uilding, but the rest of time I </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">was always in a hutment. There were just more kids than there was space. But y</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">eah, that was sparse. I mean, you didn't </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">hav</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">e a car. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">The </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">only entertainment was playing b</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ridge and softball. They had a very organized</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> adult softball league, so that </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">was the entertainment. There was no stores to buy Christmas gifts or anything. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">You ordered whatever you wanted </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">out of Sears and Roebuck in July, and it got back-ordered, and y</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ou got it in the following July. But when </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Griggs opened over in Pasco that was a big thing because when I wanted a b</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ike</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">nd when my dad bought me a </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">bike, basically, h</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">e had to borrow somebody's car. And we drove up to Ya</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">kima, and then he came home and </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ass</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">embled it, and turned us loose. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">For kids, the basic entertainment was skating. And they had concrete tennis courts up by Lewis and Clark--</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">on the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">south end of Lewis and Clark--and so that was the only surface that you could roller skate on</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">, because you had </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">those old clamp on roller skates that you tightened with a key that just hooked on to</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> your heel and the sole of your </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">shoe. And so we were just constantly roller skating. There wasn't other entertainment. Th</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ere was just recess at </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">school.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Were there any movie theaters, anything like that?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Yeah, there were. There were two movie theaters. And every weekend your dad</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> gave you a dime. And you could </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">get in for a nickel, I think, and get popcorn for a nickel or something like that. Probab</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ly everything you stood in line for—</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">I</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> mean everything—</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">there was j</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ust a line beyond human belief. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Like when it was haircut time, the only barbers in town at that time were dow</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">n at the Allied Arts, down below </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Jackson's bar. And so, I don't know, they had two or three barbers in there. S</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">o Saturday morning, the boys and </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">their fathers would show up to get their haircuts. And so there'd be a line of 100 kid</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">s. There wouldn't be no adults. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">They were all up at the bar playing pool and having a beer while the kids stood in lin</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">e waiting to get a haircut. But when </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span class="SpellingError SCX78204124">Ganzel’s</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> came in was like night and day. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Even shopp</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ing at the grocery store,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> you had to become friends with </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">the butcher. If you didn't know </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">somebody in the grocery store, and they befriended you and gave you a heads up that, hey, there's some</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">marshmallows coming into town, why</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> you just did without. You ate a lot of canned fruit and vegetables and stuff</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">like that. And people were always doing their own chickens and putting them up. But it was just pretty </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span class="SpellingError SCX78204124">spartan</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> T</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">hey gave you a house. I don't know if my dad even paid any rent. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Basic</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ally, they gave him grass seed. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">They ga</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ve him coal. We just had a real nice house. And my parents had borrowed s</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">omebody's pickup, and they'd </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">driven up Yakima and bought some furniture, and brought it home one piece at a t</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ime. But we lived down there on </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Goethals for, probably, from '44 to '49, or something like that. And then we mo</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ved up on McMurray, and then we </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">left in '50 and went down to Odessa, Texas.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">What about institutions like churches? Were there churches for people to go to on Sundays in those early years?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">We didn't. It wasn't because my parents didn't believe in God, it's just like we didn't go to church. I </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">mean, we'd </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">have had to walk. I'm not even sure where--I honestly do not remember wher</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">e the closest church would have </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">been. I'm sure there were churches</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> though</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> because the government set off areas fo</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">r parks, they set off areas for </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">schools, they set off areas for churches, very thorough.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">What about any community events that--</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Not much. They had Richland Days. They had like the polio March of Dimes drives.</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> Actually it was probably after—</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">b</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">etween, let's say, '45 and '50—</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">when Camp Hanford really had gotten establishe</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">d and they had moved in missile </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">people. This was just a sizable number of soldiers up there in North Richland, but </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">they had much better facilities </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">for entertainment--movies and all--it was just built newer. And so even though my dad didn't serve in t</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">he service, </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">he had a lot of friends that had been in the service, and so we could go to movies</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> up there. And they had outside </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">entertainment tha</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">t came in that you could go to. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">We never did live out at Hanford or anything like that. My ex-father-in-law actuall</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">y came here and he lived out at </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Hanford for a while.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">So you said your family then moved away in 1950, and then came back in 1960? Your father came back?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: Yeah, about ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> years later he came back. I'm not too--</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Did you come back at that point also?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Well, I was in college, so I came up here after I graduated in '61 and went into the</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">t</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">hey still had the draft at that </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">time</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">so I volunteered for the Navy, and ended up flunking a hearing test and flight</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> school. So I got washed out of </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">flight training. And Vietnam hadn't started to build up yet so they weren't desperate fo</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">r pilots. So after I got out of </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">the Navy, I came back up here and stayed f</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">or a short while and got a job. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">I had a mining</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">, engineering and</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> geology degree, so I got a job in Colorado in a mol</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ybdenum mine, and worked there </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">for a couple of years, and decided to go back to college </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">and get a degree in metallurgy. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And so I went to WSU and graduated from there in '65, went down to Kaiser Steel</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> in California. By then, my dad </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">had moved from working for the contractor into working for </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">the AEC. Now, I'm not too sure—</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">I</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">'m sure he just </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">probably just wanted me and my wife and </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">their grandkids closer to them—</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">bu</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">t anyway, he told the people in </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">personnel that I had a metallurgy degree. And one day I got a call from Wanda </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span class="SpellingError SCX78204124">Co</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span class="SpellingError SCX78204124">tner</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">, that was the branch chief </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">over the personnel hiring, and she asked me i</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">f I'd come up for an interview. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And she said that she could give me a nice raise if I'd think about joining the A</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">EC. So I ended up accepting the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">offer. And when I got my Q Clearance, I moved up here in July of '67, and worked for DOE as an individual</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> contributor over PNLs. It was a Hanford lab. PN</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">L, I guess</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> had taken over by then. They had a number of very</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">important metallurgical programs on understanding how plutonium reacted, especially in the reactor with neutrons</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">hitting it all the time.</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">So I advanced very </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">nicely. And by the early '80s, I was assistant manager for--it was then ERDA or AEC--</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">for all </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">the compliance programs at Hanford--that'd be safety, and QA, and environmental, and security--</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">so all the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">c</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ompliance structure at Hanford. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Then, probably, in about '84, I guess, I moved me over and I was assistant manager</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> for all the nuclear operations at Hanford. So I had the 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">rea for the fuel fab for N Reactor. And we still </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">had N Reactor running. And FFTF </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">was starting up, </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">we had PUREX running and</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> T Canyon. I probably had a billion dollar budget ba</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ck in the '80s just for all the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">nucle</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ar operations here at the site. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">So we did the first comprehensive EIS that was ever done in the Department of Energ</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">y for the tank farms, built the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">last double shell tanks that were ever built.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">A</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">nd how long did you work at--</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">I worked for about 20 years for DOE, and the AEC, and then I took an early retireme</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">nt in, must've been like 1988. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">So it must have bee</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">n about 21 years I worked here. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">So I left Hanford and went over to Idaho Falls and was as a manager over their cap</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ital construction projects. And then I got transferred to </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Rocky Flats. After the FBI and EPA had shut down Rocky Flats</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">, the Department of </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Energy terminated the contract with the contractor. And actually they didn't even c</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ompete the contract. They just, </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">literally, gave it to EG&G, which is almost unheard of, to not compete a major con</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">tract. So I was in charge of—t</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">hey had shut down Rocky </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Flats operations. And so when EG&G came in, our charter was to restart the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">plant. And so I was the project </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">manager over restarting the pluto</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">nium operations at Rocky Flats. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">I got promoted up to being assistant general manager over environmental remediation. And th</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">en I got a call from </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Lockheed down in Houston and they were trying to break into the DOE busin</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ess. And so they hired about 20 </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">experienced people that had worked in and outside of DOE to put together propos</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">als to run these big contracts, </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">whether it be Oak Ridge, or Rocky Flats,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> or Idaho, or Nevada Test Site. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And so then I</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> work</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ed</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> for Lockheed and it then became Lockheed Martin. But </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">I worked for Lockheed from like </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">'93 to '96, and I was a general manager of one of their environmental remediation divisions.</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> And I transferred </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">back up here, which was probably about the sixth or seventh time I've been throu</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">gh this town. But when Lockheed </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Martin and Fluor won the Westinghouse contract in '96, I got transferred back to Ri</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">chland. So I'd made a circuitous loop that </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">had gone from Richland to Idaho Falls to Rocky Flats outside of Denver, down to</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> Houston, the Nevada Test Site, and the back up to Hanford. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">But I ended up, after I retired from Lockheed Martin, I went to work for a small b</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">usiness here</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> at</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> ATL International. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">They currently run the 222-S Laboratory. I was a vice president for them over all th</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">eir Hanford work. Eventually, I </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">just decided to go out on my own. So I consulted from</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> about 2004 to the end of 2011. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And by then, I looked around and all my contacts had either died or moved to Ar</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">izona or Florida. Even today, I </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">probably don't know two human beings that are still working for a living. But t</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">his place has been--and DOE has been—</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">absolutely a blessing to me.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">I want to go back. So your family left in 1950. Then you came back in '67</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> roughly?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">No, I came back in '61.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Just for a short period of time. Just long enough to enlist in the Navy. And then w</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">hen I got ready to start flight </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">school, I took a hearing test. And believe it or not, the physical requirements for all branches of service are the</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">same. It's just that they check people that are going to be in the Air Force or in the Navy, they just check certain</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">things closer than they do if you want to be a marine. And so I was just borderline acceptable in the hearing. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">since they had an abundance of pilots and the Vietnam </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">War hadn't escalated or </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">not, they ended up giving me an </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">honorable discharge and reclassifying me as 1-Y, which is, it has to be a national e</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">mergency to call you back up. I </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">came home and then went to Colorado and went to work in the mine.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">When you came back here for the job working at Hanford, I was wonderi</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ng, what ways had the community </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">changed since you were here as a child going to school?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">You know what, to me</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> at a macroscopic view of the Tri-Cities, the biggest thing </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">that's changed is the number of </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">people. Richland is still uptown and downtown. Kennewick is striving to open up th</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">at area between the two bridges </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">along the river. But the biggest thing is now there are probably three times as many people. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">There was probably </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">90,000 people between the three towns early in the '50s. And now there's probably</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> a quarter of a million people. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And so the biggest changes is that the roads and streets haven't been modernized--or the stoplights--</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">to handle </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">triple the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">traffic. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">But the wine industry obviously is a major thing</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> because when I was a kid growi</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ng up here—</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">When</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> they talk about </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">termination dust storms, they were not kidding</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> because I lived in eastern Co</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">lorado and my parents had lived </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">through the Dust Bowl, and I knew what dust storms looked like. And when they hit Richland, your house</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">—I remember my mother, she—</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">when they vacuum--</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">you've</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> just</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> got</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> sweep broom and a w</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ood floor, and your sweeping it </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">up, and throwing it in the yard with a dust pan. But the irrigation c</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">hanged all that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">There's just so much more moisture going up in the air that the dust storms a</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">re few and far between. And the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">humidity has gone from like 10% or 15% probably to 35%. And the summers h</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ave gotten less extreme. When I </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">was a kid, it was not unusual at all for July--from the first of July to the end of July--</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">to be 110 to 115 degrees. I've </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">seen it 117 degrees here. And now, just look at this last summer, we had a </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">few days of 101 or 103. But the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">climate has </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">mellowed out with the extremes. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Like in '48, the Columbia River froze clear across from side to side. You could dr</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ive a truck across it. The same </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">year as the big flood. So the ex</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">tremes have gone away. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">instead of the re</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">al dips and curves a sinusoidal </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">curve, it's more shallow extremes. But the fact that they now have Meadow Spring</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">s, and they have Clipper Ridge, </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">and West Richland</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> of cour</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">se, has expanded from a nothing. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">When I was a kid there was just basically a few people that liked to have farm</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">land lived out there. There was </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">probably as many people living in Yakima as there was in Richland</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> because </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">they couldn't build houses fast </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">enough. And those that work</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ed in the 100 Areas or the 200 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">reas, it was just as </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">close to come in from Yakima as </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">it was to drive from Richland.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">You talk about a number memories from your childhood, are there any othe</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">r things, events, or particular </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">memories that really stand out from those early years in Richland?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">You had to make your entertainment. And you had to wait in line for everything, inclu</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ding getting a car. Jeez, it </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">must have been '48 before we got a car. And in the Sunday paper there was an</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> ad that said, call a number in </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Seattle, and get on a list for a Buick. And so my mother did that. And about six mont</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">hs later we got a call and said </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">co</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">me pick up your car. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">We got on a train over in Pasco that just had wood benches in it, and we went over</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> Snoqualmie to Seattle, and got </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">this new '48 Buick, and drove it home over Snoqualmie Pass. People from all ove</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">r the neighborhood were kind of </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ogling this car because anybody else that had a car basically were driving som</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">e pre-1940 model, because during </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">the '40s they didn't make cars. But that was a vast improvement for us to hav</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">e our own wheels. But self-made entertainment. When we lived up on McMurray—</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">of course, all these guys that came here from the '30s and '40s</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> all the</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">entertainment they had as they grew up as kids was self-made also. So playing pool was a big activity. And so my</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">dad bought a pool table over in Pasco, and we had it in the basement. And on</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">the weekend, he and all of his </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">buddies iced down beer and played </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span class="SpellingError SCX78204124">kelly</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> pool all afternoon, that was the enterta</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">inment. And probably that night </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">those same guys, with their wives, had a little potluck at somebody's house and played Bridge. My parents pla</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">yed bridge </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">all the time.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">I wanted to ask you, then, also about your working at Hanford. Hanford for so </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">long focused on production. You </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">mentioned that production, production. At some point, of course, it shifted to cl</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">eanup. I wondered if that shift </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">impacted your work at </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">all?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Well, by the time I left Hanford it was still in a reduced production mode. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">he writing was on the wall that </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">environmental restoration was the future of Hanford, not production. We fought </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">to keep N Reactor going because </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">it was dual purpose. But especially when they passed the RCRA, or Resource </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Conservation Recovery Act, that </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">was the first major commitment by the US Government for an environmental cleanup</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">. And they sent that law, or bill, out to all </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">the field offices and asked for the field offices to comment on what effect it woul</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">d have on their operations. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Dixy Lee Ray wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">s the commissioner at the time. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And I must've been a director of safety at the time. So we got together with the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">contractors and we labored over </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">this. And fortunately, I have a knack of being able to synthesize complicated things</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> into a very concise statement. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And when we got through </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">re</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">viewing this, I wrote a letter for the manager of the fiel</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">d office. And it was about this </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">long, and it simply said, this will shut down nuclear pit production fo</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">r the United States of America. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And from that point on it was one lawsuit after another as Congress tried to extend it</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">s will on the defense industry. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">But at the time, like when I was a Rocky Flats, the reason they were so anxious to </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">restart that plant that was the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">only </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">plant in all of DOE complex that</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> didn't have two--like there was Hanford an</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">d Savannah River, there was Los </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Alamos and Livermore Design Lab. So there was a duality in everything. But when they remo</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ved the pit </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">production from Hanford, instead having pit production at Savannah River and</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> Hanford both, they built a new </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">plant at Rocky Flats. And it was the only plant that made pit</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">s. And so it was a choke point. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And when the FBI and EPA shut that plant down, basically, we had nuclear subs </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">that were out in the ocean with </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">20 missiles and there was no spear point on the end of the spear. They were</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> not loaded because we were not </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">making pit</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">s</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">. So that was why the defense industry was fighting with Congress on the</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> environmental cleanup was </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">because we were not in a good defensible position nuclear-wise during th</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">at Cold War years if we had the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">boomers out in the ocean that didn't have a num</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ber of warheads on top of them. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And that's why EG&G got the contract because DOE believed that they could res</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">tart the plant and start making </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">these pits. So even though the environmental law was saying you should be sh</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ifting quickly to environmental </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">restoration at Rocky Flats, the headquarters people over defense programs were tellin</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">g you under the table, get </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">this plant running. We need these pits for the defense of America. So it was real</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> catch-22 for the management of </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">the Rocky Flats plant. But eventually, it became obvious that they were never go</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ing to restart the plant and so </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">everybody shifted into a full environmental restoration mode.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">During your years working here at Hanford, what would you consider some of </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">the more challenging aspects of </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">your job, the work you were doing here, and maybe some of the most rewarding aspects of you</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">r work? </span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Well, you know--[SIGH] I mean</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">, rewarding</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> is a hard thing to define beca</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">use that was one of the primary </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">reasons I took early retirement. Let me just use Yucca Mountain as an example. When I hired into the AEC in '67,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">the United States Government was looking for a repository for nuclear fuel in Lyons, Kansas. So that was '67, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">here we are, 2013, and we're no closer to solving that national </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">problem today </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">than we were 40 years ago. So</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> the satisfaction that comes with mission accomplished was al</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ways very difficult to achieve.</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> I</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">t</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> was more of a case of frustration on my part that the grass looks greener on th</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">e other side of the fence. If I </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">was going to go any higher in DOE, I would have to go to Washington, DC</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ecause I was already an S</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ES and </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">that's as high as you could go witho</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ut a congressional appointment. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">But the most challenging thing was that when Alex </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span class="SpellingError SCX78204124">Fremling</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> came in to be t</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">he manager of DOE, he brought a </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">complete new, fresh environmental sensitive outlook to the plant. And so trying to</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> deal with the public interface over leaking tanks—</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">106</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">T was a big bump in my career. I went from a nob</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ody to a branch chief just with </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">one tank leak. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">[LAUGHTER] But</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> he w</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">as very environmental conscious</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> and he was </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">very safety conscious. And so he </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ratcheted the whole system up, not just o</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ne notch, but numerous notches. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Because when they built the nuclear industry, they did not have safety standards for the nuclear industry</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> b</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ecause it was a brand new industry.</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> So if you looked at the operation of the uranium </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">side, then they used the safety </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">standards of a steel mill and a blast furnace to do the safety standards for </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Fernald and these other uranium </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">enrichment places. And if you look at the chemical processing in the canyon</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">s, they looked to the petroleum </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">cracking industry for safety standards. And if you look to the waste disposal, whic</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">h was the operation of the tank </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">farms and the burial grounds, it had the same basic safety standards and the int</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">erest as a commercial landfill. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And so it wasn't until the nuclear Navy was born and Rickover installed a complet</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ely different safety philosophy </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">because he was going to </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">have 200, or 300, or 400 sailor—</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">lives were dependent on everything </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">functioning perfectly. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And Alex </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span class="SpellingError SCX78204124">Fremling</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> was bright enough and young enough to recognize that. An</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">d he brought that standard into Hanford. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">So there was just a real crash program on upgrading the operational procedures</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> for tank farms and other waste </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">disposals. Skin </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">contaminations were accepted as—</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">like a guy working on your ca</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">r, he accepts the fact that his hands are going to get greasy. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ut Alex didn't accept that. He said, you know, we'r</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">e going to have zero accidents. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And we're going to have zero skin contaminations. We're going to be open with t</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">he public on any of these tank leaks. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And the problem was we didn't have</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> really</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> the skill to measure how these tanks w</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ere doing—whether we're losing </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">material or not losing material. And even though you could measure the depth,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> the interest of whether it was </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">unacceptable to leak</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> was not there. And the reason for that was that when the fi</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">rst tanks were built, they were built in 12. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">So there's four rows of three</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> and the separation process was simply a settling proces</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">s. So the waste would come </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">into the first tank</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> and fill up, and the solids would drift to the bottom. And then it'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> overflow into the second tank, </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">another lighter batch of solids. And then it would flow into the third tank, and more solids would fall </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">out. Then </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">it would flow into the ground. And so if you're pu</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">tting stuff in the ground for ten or 15 years, and using nine </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">exchange properties of the soil to capture the radionuclides</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> then what's the big dea</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">l about a tank leaking a little extra waste?</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> You've already put a billion gallons of stuff into the soil, </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">what's another 100,000 gallons? </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">So that was the mentality that Alex faced with the contractors when he came to</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> Hanford. I give him credit. He </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">single-handedly changed that. And he took on the challenge to do the very first</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> environmental impact statement </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">on tank waste for the whole agency. He was the guinea pig. He was the front runner</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">, or the blazer, for the DOE on environmental issues. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And so I honestly think that Hanford, even though</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> because of the design of the plan</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ts</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> there was no way to retrofit </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">these plants to not discharge stuff to the soil, but there was a way to monitor it b</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">etter and be more acutely aware </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">of occurrence</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">s that you didn't want to occur. W</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">hether it was stuff leaking on th</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">e ground on top of the tank, or </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">whether it was stuff leaking into the ground through the bottom of the tank.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">So what time period are you talking about here?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">This would have been in late '70s up to, probably, '87. And Mike Lawrence came in '87.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">And it's Alex </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span class="SpellingError SCX78204124">Fremling</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Yes, </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span class="SpellingError SCX78204124">Fremling</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">How do you spell the last name?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">F-R-E-M-L-I-N-G.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">So that's when you noticed a shift definitely</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> taking place</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">No question. I was a student of, that instead of resisting these changes, I e</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">mbraced these changes and I was </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">rewarded for that. But th</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">e mentality of the DOE—or</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> it was ERDA at that</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> time, but the mentality of the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">workers in ERDA were no different than the mentality in the contractors. I mean, we'</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">d been doing it this way for 30 years, why are we changing? H</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">e conducted the first operational readiness re</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">view probably in the nation for start</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">up nuclear facilities.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">How were you able to change that mentality I guess into the--</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">You know what, I'd say, probably, through the award-fee process. It's through the money. When I first go</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">t here, </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">contractors had contracts, but there was never any real evaluation of whether th</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ey deserved their fee or didn't </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">deserve their fee. So once we instituted an award-fee process in which we itemi</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">zed the areas for improvement, then </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">quantified A,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">B,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">C or D or F, you could then quantify. If they had $10 million fee that's u</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">p for grabs for this quarter or </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">this six month period, you could quantify how well they did to meet those goal</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">s</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">. So i</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">t was very intense and it was a </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">steep learning curve, but it produced results. And we changed contractors</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> too.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Mm-hmm, right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">So this was when you would have been in charge of compliance programs?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">First, yeah. After I was a branch chief, I was an assistant division director. Basically </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">all of my career was in nuclear </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">operations, especially with the tank farms. And even though I moved over to be the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">director of safety, and then on </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">to be the system manager for compliance, you were just viewing operations from</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> an independent standpoint. You </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">didn't direct nuclear operations, but you did appraisals, and you did audits, and yo</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">u did oversight, and you graded </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">a contractor on his performance independent from operations.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Was it during your time</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> there, I mean</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> at some point of course there were a lo</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">t of questions raised about the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">tanks. And in term</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">s</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> of the public</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> questions about tanks leaking and that sort of thing</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">. Did you have to deal with any </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">of that sort of thing?</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Listen,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> I spent—i</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">f I wasn't making presentations to the public or defending our actions to the public, I was doing so in fro</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">nt </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">of Congress. There was constant barrage and it was difficult to commu</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">nicate because by this time the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">environmental support groups were springing up to put </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">pressure on DOE to perform and to clean up and to </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">accelerate. And, of course, you control certain things, but you don't control your</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> budget. Congress controls your </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">budget. And so it was difficult a</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">t best, and it was contentious. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">It's constantly contentious because it was like I was speaking in English and t</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">hey were listening in Greek. We </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">couldn't communicate</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> because they were just totally upset with what the gove</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">rnment had done to end the war. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">They forg</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ot that what </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">was the end result</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> was stop the war and save millions of lives in the invasion of Japan. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">they had forgotten that. And it was just on the bad things that have been done to the environment. And I'd be the</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">first to agree to that--I don't think that in </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">hindsight</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> i</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">f you went back and re-ran it ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> ti</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">mes in hindsight, I don't think </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">anything would have changed</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ecause the same pressure to beat the Germ</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ans to the nuclear bomb and the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">same pressure to end the war in the Pacific would not change. And so you'd only</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> have the capability to do what </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">your technology was advanced enough to do at that time and place.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">I wonder if there's anything that you haven't talked about, o</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">r I haven't asked about yet, either in terms of </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">your years growing up here as a young child, or your father</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">'s work, or your work at Hanford, that you'd like to talk </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">about, or think it would be important to talk about.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">I would just simply say that I think that the people and the contractors in the gove</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">rnment, as well as contractors, </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">have always given 100% to do the right thing. And they don't get much praise. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">nd they are constantly vilified </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">because they're missing milestones and stuff like that. But there is just some ex</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">tremely technically challenging </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">work to be done out there. It's been a flywheel for this site since 1943, and it's go</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ing to continue out probably to 2075. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">But they'll never clean the site up, and they'll never walk away from it. They'll h</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ave some 25-square-</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">mile pad out </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">there that has all kinds of markings on it, don't drill here. But they're making tremen</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">dous strides in cleaning up the </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">groundwater and removing the stuff along the river. I never dreamed in my wilde</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">st dreams that they could clean </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">up all the burial grounds and trenches alo</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">ng the river and the buildings. </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Each one of those reactors had the facilities enough to run a small city, and now all that's </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">left is a cube. You could </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">paint dots on it or something like rolling dice across the prairie. But I just thin</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">k it's been remarkable how much </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">they've cleaned up and how safely they've done it. You don't ever read of anybo</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">dy getting killed out there, or </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">maimed out there, and they're still using a lot of heavy equipment. The safety s</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">tandards are extremely high and </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">it</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">’</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">s part of the reward, the carrot in front of the donkey. If you're safe and have a </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">good safety record and you make </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">progress, you get your fee.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Well</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> I</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> want to</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"> thank you very much</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">—</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX78204124">
<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: Sure.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: --</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">for coming and talking to us today and sharing y</span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">our memories and experiences. I </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">appreciate it.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX78204124">
<p class="Paragraph SCX78204124"><span class="TextRun SCX78204124"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Rhoades</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX78204124">Great, thank you very much.</span><span class="EOP SCX78204124"> </span></p>
</div>
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
01:09:30
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
180 kbps
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
200 Area
300 Area
100 Area
Z Plant
N Reactor
Plutonium Uranium Extraction Plant (PUREX)
Fast Flux Test Facility
B Reactor
234-5 Building
222-S Laboratory
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1967-2013
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1967-1988
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Rhoades, Paul
Cotner, Wanda
Ray, Dixy
Lawrence, Mike
Fremling, Alex
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Jack Rhoades
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Jack Rhoades conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Nuclear weapons plants--Waste disposal--Environmental aspects--Washington (State)--Hanford Site.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
10/16/2016
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-07-22: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
100 Area
200 Area
222-S Laboratory
234-5 building
300 Area
B Reactor
Fast Flux Test Facility
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.
Kennewick (Wash.)
N Reactor
Pasco (Wash.)
Plutonium Uranium Extraction Plant (PUREX
Richland (Wash.)
Z Plant
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fe492c807fcb72ea484f1a3f609650c6a.jpg
01677cd59b210bb62fc34da468aef790
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fe80189acb0a6011ff60f71ddfc211623.mp4
e14a584a638ed796407bd0d8a1c20f21
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Pre-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Jean Johnson
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span class="SpellingError SCX49048070">Johnson_Jean</span></span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></strong></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">All right. Ready to get started?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Jean Johnson</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Mm-hmm.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">O</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">kay</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">. We'll start by having you state your name.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Well, my name--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">the name that people from White Bluffs will remember is Carrie Jean Conning. That was my</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">name there.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Right. Your name now is Jean Johnson?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Yes. I left the Carrie off.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">. Great. And my name is R</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">obert Bau</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">man, and we're doing thi</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">s interview on July 31, 2013, at Jean</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Johnson's home.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And so I want to start our interview by just asking you to tell me a</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> little bit about your family. If you know w</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">hen they came to</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">White Bluf</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">fs, how and why they came there, and when.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">When my father</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> was </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Leslie Andrew Conning. Known in White Bluffs as Andy. Andy Conning. He came from</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Pennsylvania. Somewhere here in the West and came up the river and landed in White Bluffs in 106.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And do you know why he came to White Bluffs?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">He was kind of an orphan when he was born. His mother died with birth. And his grandmother and father raised</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">him, and they couldn't take care of him, so an uncle took him.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And his name was Andrew somebody else. Had sheep. And he wanted my dad to come back, come there into</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Colorado, or in the White Bluffs area and have sheep. Don't know if he ever did.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And so that's why he came to White Bluffs.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Mm-hmm.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And how about your mother?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">My mother came from South Dakota. They went to Yakima. I don't know why. And then they went from Yakima to</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">White Bluffs in 1912. She married my</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> dad in 1918. And he had four--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">they had four children. I have three older</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">brothers, then myself.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And so your parents met in White Bluffs, then?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Yes. They were neighbors. Because her name was Johnson, also. She came in there as Irma Johnson. And then</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">she married Codd</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">ing. That's what people are confusing when they say, what was your mother's maiden name?</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Johnson. [LAUGHTER</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">] So</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> then I went to work right from graduation to The Republic newspaper in Yakima.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> In Yakima, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And I w</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">orked there--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I was only, I think I was maybe 17. I was going to say 16, because I did graduate a year</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">earlier in my age than I should have. And I could only work so many hours, because that was during the war.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">'43 I graduated from Yakima High School. And I had to sign a paper for a Social Security number. I never had had</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">one before. So then that's when I took off the Carrie and just put Jean Conning. And then, of course, as soon as I</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">got married, I had to do it again.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I wonder if you could talk a little bit about where you grew up in White Bluffs. Your family farm, what that was like,</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">what sort of crops you grew, that sort of thing.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> He grew--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">my father had apples. And we lived right next to the Columbia River, and we had a water pump. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">used to pump our water out of the river to irrigate.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> And then we had--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">he had just a home. Little bunch of fruit trees. Peaches and </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">pears and cherries. And every—</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">lot</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">of people would come and pick them and can them, and my mother wo</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">uld can them. And they worked—</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">they</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">irrigated with the pipe and plugs.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX49048070">
<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">What kind of pipes</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">, do you know what that pipe was</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Wooden. Woode</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">n pipe. And they had a cement--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I don't even remember what they call it. But the water came</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">from the river, and stayed in there, and then the pipes would drain off to put water in the field.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And then the war came. And I was still</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> in school, because I started--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I was born in 1925. So he lost that place and</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">had to move to another place. And the boys were all in the service by then. And he worked it by himself. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">worked himself down. He got sick. But we stayed in White Bluffs. And then the cars were going through with the</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">US government, so we knew something was going to happen.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about the farm that you grew up on. Were there other buildings that you</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">had</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">? Was there like a storage--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">a warehouse for storing some of the fruit, or any other sort of buildings?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Not then</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">. We had a barn, because we had a milk cow, and two horses. The horses used to pull the spray wagon.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And then in later years, they put a pipe out for them, to hold a spray. So they could just hook up and spray. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">they were spraying</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> that</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> lime and sulfur, som</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">ething like that. It was very--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">after everybody was gone, I heard how</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">dangerous that was.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And was that for insects?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Mm-hmm, worms. The worms were eating him up. And nothing would stop them, since I told you before, they</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">didn't come with DDT until after the war started, which was too late for him.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Did you have electricity on your farm?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Uh-huh. And my mother had an electric stove and an electric washing machine. But it was just a small little house.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And the school bus would not pick me up, because I lived within three miles of the school.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">So you walked to school?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">So I had to walk to school. And there were three other girls there, who all four of us had to walk to school, carrying</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">our lunch buckets and our books. And no fear. You know, every place we went</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> we walked. We had no fear. We</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">knew everybody.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Do you remember the names of any those girls that you used to walk to school with?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Yvonne </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span class="SpellingError SCX49048070">Ponsat</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> was one. P-O-N-S-A-T. Her father was French. And she had two brothers who were in high school</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">with my brothers. Another one was Elizabeth </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span class="SpellingError SCX49048070">Keele</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">. I don't know what he does. He's around Yakima somewhere.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">He's probably gone by now, too. The other girl, I can't remember her name, because she had moved there.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">So when walking to school, was that elementary school and high school, or?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">High school.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">High School.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Yeah, the school bus would take us to grade school, but not to high school.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">The high school was closer to you.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And it was just across one field, but we walked over and went down and walked down the road. And then</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">eventually we all got bi</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">cycles. But the bicycles were--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">we were almost grown by the time we could afford a bicycle.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Must</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> have been a little tricky walking sometimes in the winter.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">There were no winters there. We lived so close to the river, it was warm all winter. I don't remember any snow. No</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">snowmen, no snow fights, no icy roads.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And did you have telephone at your house?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Oh, yes. With the ringer, you know-- "numb</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">er please!" [LAUGHTER</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">] You remember them?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I remember the dial phones.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Oh yeah. Well, this was just a telephone operator. And we also had RFD. We also had mail service. So it wasn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">too remote.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">So how far from the town were you?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Well, they said I lived within</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> three miles. </span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> A</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">nd that was the limit for school was three miles from town.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Do you remember any of your teachers from school at all? From either grade school or high school? Did you have</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">any favorite teachers or ones that you remember</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> at all</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Well, those pictures reminded me. I did not remember them, yes, but I do now. And another thing, too. My father</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">was the clerk of the school board.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Oh, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> So he got to have all the interviews of all the people who came that wanted a</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">job of teaching.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And my youngest brother and I would sneak around and try and get a good look at them before any of the school</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">kids did. We wanted to know who they were first.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> My other two brothers had graduated from high school by then,</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">but my younger brother and I went to school as close together as four years could do it.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Mm-hm. </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Were your parents involved in any other organizations at all in the community?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Well, just my dad was a Mason, and my mother was Eastern Star. And that was all</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> of their--t</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">hey did not go to</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">church. And we had eight churches in White Bluffs, and they were all active. No, there were six! Six. I'm too far.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">What about the town itself? What sorts of businesses do you remember, or stores, or anything like that?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Mm-hm</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">. You want to bring that in, Leslie? It's out there. I didn't bring the right one. It's a tablet. Just seeing that</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">picture reminded me of a lot of their names.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">, the grocery store was the first scene. His name was Dick </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span class="SpellingError SCX49048070">Reirson</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">. R-E-I-R-S-O-N. And then we had a</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">drugstore, but it was a pharmacy. And he had an ice cream table.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And he had a distorted hand, and he used to put the ice cream cone down in there, you know, with the little top,</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">and then reach down. Remember those cans that had the ice cream in it? Good old hard ice cream put in there,</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">and never drop a drop. He was also the band leader for the high school music.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And then there was the power company, and I could not remember the lady's name. They had Pacific Power</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">there. And he had a Ford dealer with a service company. That was Fred </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span class="SpellingError SCX49048070">Gillhualy</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">. G-I-L-L-H-U-A-L-Y. And they</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">were four boys. And I don't know if they're around Yakima or gone by now.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Yeah, </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I'm not sure.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I know the name because one boy said he was flying home from California to Yakima, and they were taking</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">so</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">many people had to get off the airplane, but he got to ride all the way to Yakima. Went to get off the plane, the</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">little stewardess said, how do you pro</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">nounce your last name? [LAUGHTER</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">] They couldn't tell him to get off the</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">airplane because they couldn't pronounce his name! So that was good.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And Levi Austin was the superintendent at the high school. And the Austin name is from Prosser. The one boy, he</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">had a hardware store in </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Prosser. But I keep thinking,</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> you know, they're still there, but I'm just lucky to live as</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">long as I hav</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">e. Because they were probably--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">they were</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> in</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> my brother's age. And see in there, everybody's gone.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">So I don't reme</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">mber any teachers.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> I remember--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">well, I don't remember the principal, but I remember the principal</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">of the high school took us all in the next morning after Pearl Harbor, and told us that they had bombed Pearl</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Harbor.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Is that how you found out about it?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">World War II, yes. Because remember Roosevelt? Franklin Roosevelt? "This day will be known in infamy." Well, I</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">heard that. Course, it never went away.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> And then my father--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">this was years before we moved to this ranch. The first ranch we had when we were all little.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">My father and the neighbor built this warehouse, and they came in with apples, and they poured them in this water</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">bath, and then it </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">went down. And the women sorted off all the bad, and the other ladies were packing the apples</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">with wrapper paper. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">ake t</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">hat little paper.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And they'd go on a roller to the </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span class="SpellingError SCX49048070">lidder</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">, and he would put the lid on and stack them up. And then two more people</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">would come with these lifts and carry the five boxes of apples across a ramp and put them on the truck until they</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">got the truck loaded, and then they would take it to White Bluffs, to the railroad.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Oh, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> The Milwaukee Railroad came into</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">White Bluffs, and they would take them to Yakima.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And that's how the apples would get shipped out.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And the Pear and Fruit. I don't even know if they're still there, but my father worked for them after he had to leave</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">White Bluffs and went to Yakima.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">When you were growing up on the farm, did you have any chores? Any things that you did?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">No, I was little.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> I was little. No. And I said we didn't have any indoor plumbing, and we didn't have any running</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">water. And my brother reminds me so much of Wes, the boy you met.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Said, well, Jeannie said we just put the bucket on the rope and put it down, and </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">get a bucket of water. W</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">ind the</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">rope up, grab a hold of the buck, and if you were still able, you'd run t</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">he water to the house. [LAUGHTER</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">] So he</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">tried to tell me that we did have</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> running water. But no, I did--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I probably took care of the chickens or something</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">like that. I didn't have any pets.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Did you swim in the river at all, or anything like that?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">No. No, I was too little. The boys did, and we'd go out in one of these peach orchards. There were a lot of</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">orchards in White Bluffs. Beautiful orchards.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And they also had irrigating water. Pretty </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">British, no. What's the Puget--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">what's over here? Where the river goes</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">under the bridge?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Not sure.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Priest River! Priest Rapids!</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Priest Rapids, sure.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Priest Rapids irrigation. And they had paid in money for the upkeep of it. And that was one of the things that the</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> boys--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">some White Bluffs boy told me, did you ever</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> get any money back from your--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">what do you call that?</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Whenever y</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">ou give money--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">have money yearly. It's not a donation; it's a cost.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">The years of the irrigation.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Oh, can'</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">t think. Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">. And no, we didn't ever have any. But they did have plenty of water. That's one thing they did</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">have up there was plenty of water. And those peach orchards, they could afford to clean up new land, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">bringing in new trees, and have the water. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">nd they could--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">with the winters that we had there, their fruit would get</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">onto the market before California would get up to Yakima.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">So when that company came in to take over, they gave my dad about $5 an acre. And these </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">guys got maybe $20.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And they were all rich enough to hire lawyers, and they hired lawyers. And their lawyer got them much more</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">money for their land. But it was worth it</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">o see those brand ne</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">w trees get just bulldozed over!</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I was wondering if you remember any special community events or </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">celebrations?</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Did you have any 4th of July</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">celebrations, or picnics, or anything like that? Foot races?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I can't remember any specific. I do remember that they built next to the </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">high school something called a C</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">ommunity</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> H</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">all. And they would have dances and the boys would play basketball. And maybe Kennewick would come up and</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">play basketball. They'd have basketb</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">all games. But as far as grange</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">, they did not participate.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> So--</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Oh, and this orchard, in their warehouse. Yes, he had told me that </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">before, that</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> he had about 16 people that they</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">hired. And my mother was the bookkeeper. And so these people were getting money every Friday night. 1934 and</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">'35. So he had lots of friends. Lots of people liked him, because he did provide for people to get a job.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">There were no jobs, as far as work was concerned.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> The grocery store would hire--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">his nephew was there. And the</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">drugstore did it by himself. And one lady, Mrs. Leander, was the postmistress. She took care of the post office. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">don't know who any of the people were that came around to deliver the mail.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">You mentioned earlier that there was the initial farm that your parents had, and then your father had moved at</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">some point. Is that right?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">About how old were you at that time, then?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Well,</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> according to the pictures on--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">at home, I was about four. Because I was just with the kids as they would</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">stand out go to school. I wasn't going to school. And then I cannot tell you how</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> long it was, but it was a big b</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">low to</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">leave that house and that yard, and go to a house where workers had lived in all their life. And they had cardboard</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">on their walls, covering up the wood.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And it had one bedroom, and I got to have the bedroom. And there was a big porch in the front, and the three</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">boys slept in part of it, and Mother and Dad slept in the other. Bu</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">t the w</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">e</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">ther over there was never cold. I guess</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">it was hot, but I don't remember that. I'm sure it was hot. Because it was desert.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And how far away would the second place have been from your first house? Was it fairly close?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> I would say three and a half</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> miles, just up over a hill.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And then you lived there until you moved to Yakima?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Yes.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">You mentioned that you'd heard about World War II beginning. You want to talk about your brothers? And I</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">understand they all joined the service at some point. Is that correct?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Mm-hm</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And that's why you were still living in White Bluffs?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">No, Yakima. Well, you're right. They were. But then they left, because one was going to university and the other</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">two we're going to Washington State. And they joined in what, '41? And then we had to move in '43.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">But they said, Mom, don't worry about moving to Yakima, because we can get to Yakima from anywhere in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">world, but we can't get to White Bluffs. So they were probably already in the service doing their first camp or</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">something.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> one--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I had no idea in the wo</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">rld what reconnaissance meant--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">he did not fight a war, but he was in</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> reconnaissance--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">until I looked it up in the dictionary. And he was fighting the war up in the air, taking pictures of</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">their movements, the Japanese movements.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And my other brother was in a tanker taking fuel from New Orleans to France in the Atlantic. And he said that the</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Atlantic was full of German submarines. He said there were four days that they didn't even take their clothes off.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">But his was brand new, and he could not go slow as everybody else did. And he could go faster than their convoy,</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">so he circled their own convoy without any cover, because he said his boat would not go that slow.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And my other brother was in</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Marine fighter pilot. And he--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I don't know if you knew the story about Ted Williams,</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">but Ted Williams'</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> group came in. Whenever my brother left that camp, Ted Williams came in. And I just heard</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">that on the--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">because people look at me and say, Ted Williams, the baseball player? And I said, yes, he went to</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">war. Yeah, he was in a group that came in and took over where my brother had been.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">You mentioned earlier that you start</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">ed</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> seeing some </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">cars and vehicles that said U</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">S</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> G</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">overnment. Do you remember</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">any more about that? Anything else that happened?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Well</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">, that was our first--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">there was gossip around that, I don't know, that they were going to take over and build </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">atomic bomb or something on our land. That we were going to have to leave. Well, you know, until it came to</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">push, and then came shove.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">But these station wagons were showing up, and each one of them had about four men sitting in it. And they were</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">surveying the land. And they had surveyed how many houses there were, and what condition they were in,</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">because some houses were ready to be burned and a few houses were moved. And the rest of them were</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">demolished. And then all of a sudden it came across that you were going to have to move by the 15th of</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">September. They gave them the date.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And my mother worked on an election board. And whatever year that was, I don't know. But she wanted to stay</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">and work on that last board. And I had been told later that that was the only money she was going to move with,</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">was what she got paid for.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">She had a sister that lived in Yakima, and they found us an apartment. And it was just two rooms. Oh, goodness, it</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">was small. But that was where we were.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And my dad stayed to work on the orchard. They let him stay until the crops were all picked. And he sent the last</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">bunch of apples off that orchard to Yakima.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">How did you feel about having to leave? Or your parents ever express anything about--</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">They did not, because as I've said before, I said we were poor. Leslie just said we didn't have any money.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> And we</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">all got jobs.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I got babysitting jobs with a little neighborhood girl. The mother was there, but I would just go over there and play</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">with her, and get maybe $0.25 or something. Well, that's all there was. And I didn't drive. I couldn't go anywhere.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Cars were--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">gas was rationed.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And then we went to Yakima. And I graduated on about the 3rd of June and went to work on the 6th. I said to</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Mother, now, don't wake me up. I'm going to sleep for two days. She woke me up and said, well, there's an ad in</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">the paper. The newspaper wants help. And I said, well, I'll go see.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Well, I got taken that day. I worked there </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">for seven years. In the advertising, Johnny, doing anything that they</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">wanted done. I would do it. I ran</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> the switchboard. And I could--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I did a lot of odd jobs there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">But I was in advertising. Yeah, I have to tell you that writing for sale notes to be published in the paper. And Friday</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">night, he had to have it. Everything had to be back in the room to get on</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">to Sunday's paper, at least by five</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> o'clock</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Friday night.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And this one man would invariably come about 20 after 4:00. And every time I could, I would leave the room. But I</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">got a hold of him one time, and he had cattle for sale. And I was writing it down. And he had a milking short-horn</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">bull. And I wrote it down, and I looked at it. That's what it said, a milking short-horn bull. I said, that's not possible!</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Oh, he said, you silly girls don't know a thing. That's what </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">it is. Put in the paper. [LAUGHTER</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">]</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I couldn't ask him, hey, my father wouldn't have known what a sho</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">rt-horn bull was either. [LAUGHTER</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">] Wow, I never</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">will forget that. So I found out later that that's a breed of animal. That's what they're called.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I was asking about leaving White Bluffs. Did your parents get any money for their property at all?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I have no idea. Money was never spoken of. I know that we took what furniture that there was suitable, and we</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">had an aunt and uncle that lived in Sunnyside. And they came over with an old truck, and took whatever we</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">couldn't take. Because when we went to Yakima, they said the apartment was furnished. So we didn't take</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">anything.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And that was bad. Because what they had furnished, we didn't want to sleep on. And we'd already sent out stuff to</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Sunnyside. So we slept on a Davenport</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> until we got enough money to--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Mother went to work for a lady that lived</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">up the street. Had a little milk and bread grocery store, and she had two sons in the service. And so she and</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Mother had lots in common. And Mother would go to work for her</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> two days--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">for a couple of hours two days a week. And that</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">was what we bought groceries with.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">When you were living in White Bluffs, how you get news? Was there a newspaper? Did you have a radio?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I never read a newspaper. I don't know anything about that. As soon as I got into the newspaper business, I read</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">everything I can. I don't know.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And as I said before, the radio we had was run by a battery. And the boys were allowed to have 30 minutes of</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">radio when they got home from school. One of them w</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">as Jimmy Austin. Remember the--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">well you probably don't</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> remember--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">it was </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> airplane. My one brother was crazy about airplanes then. And then they got into the, oh,</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> some stupid--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I think that was television, though. And then my dad was a great news man, and he would listen to</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">the Richfield Reporter.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And how about you? Did you listen to anything on the radio?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Uh-uh.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I was wondering if you ever had a chance, opportunity, to go back to White Bluffs at some point later, during one</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">of the White Bluffs reunions, or anything like that, where you have to go back and see the area at all.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Just three times I have. One was our 60th graduation. And the four I told you </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">about--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">we had four--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">and the other</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">three came. And that was when he took </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">my girlfriend and I up to the--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Harry Anderson took us up to our homes.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Otherwise we would just join the convoy that would go out around </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">and around and around. And come back in and</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">drive through what White Bluffs streets were to get back out to the park.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">When you were able to go back and see the area, were there any things that you recognized at all that were still</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">there, or was pretty much everything gone?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Well, a lot of the houses were still there. The girls that I used to go visit and knew about. And the warehouse was</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">there. Just about the last packing he did was when he left.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And a wind storm had come in and it was just boards. And the wind leveled it. So that was the end of that. And our</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">hay barn, our cow barn, had collapsed, and I didn't want to go back anymore. It wasn't home.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I see. What do you think is important for people to know about the community of White Bluffs?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I want them to know that we were a community. We had stores. We had grocery stores. We had a barber shop.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Had the power company. We had electricity at home.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">My mother had an electric washing machine, which was very, very rare. But the boys had made enough money in</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">the service to help her buy some stuff. So she had an electric stove, and she had a wood stove. And the electric</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">stove is what she baked in. Use it for baking. Because we had so many apples, she was always making apple pie.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">The wood stove had a great big reservoir. So if you wanted hot water, you started the stove. You'd have enough</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">hot water to wash the dishes at suppertime, and wash your face to go to bed.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">That I can relate to something else that's kind of bad to these kids, but every morning, after breakfast, before we</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">went to school, we</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">’d</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> put a little bit of soda and little bit of salt in the palm of our hand, and take our dry toothbrush</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">and mix that together. Have a glass of water, and the four of us went outside, and stood outside on the lawn, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">we'd all brush </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">our teeth. Dip it in the water, and dip over here. We didn't have toothpaste, but I guess soda and</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">salt will work just as well.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">We never had candy. We did have apple pie and chocolate cake. Mother did bake. And then my father had that</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">cow, and would have a calf. And whenever the calf got big enough, he'd butcher it. And it would hang up in a tree.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">It was cool. It was always in the fall that he'd butcher the calf. And they'd go out and cut some meat, take it in, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">have it for supper. So it was very, very pioneer. True. But as I said before, Leslie has made me think we were not</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">poor.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Did you go to any other towns very much at all? To Pasco or to--</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Oh, Pasco we went for a doctor, because I got real sick in my fifth grade. I had Bright's disease. Don't even know</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">what it is. But the doctors now say, well, I'm glad you had it then, because we don't want you to have it now. And I</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">had to stay in the hospital in Pasco.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And my mother would come twice a week, and she'd say, how are you doing? Oh, I said, I wish you'd bring me</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">some water from home. The water t</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">hey give me has--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">they always put my medicine in my water! And I said, I don't</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">like it that way. I like to be able to drink a drink of water. And she said, well, they shouldn't put your medicine in</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">your water.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">So she went out to the nurse and said, Jean said that the water isn't good. Well, she complains to me, too, but</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">she's drinking city water. They had chlorine in i</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">t, and I didn't like it. [LAUGHTER</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">]</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">How long were you in the hospital for</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> that</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">About two weeks. To me, that was a long ways to be from home.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And about how old were you at that time?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I was in fifth grade. I think I was 11. Bright's disease, I think, was a kidney problem, </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">and the doctor, without telling </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">me, told my mother that I may not ever be able to have children. So nobody told me anything about that until a</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">fter </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I got married. And I had four children in six years,</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> so I proved them wrong! [LAUGHTER</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">] All doctors aren't right.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Were</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> there doctors in White Bluffs?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I was born there, yes. That's what one of my friends said, you couldn't have been born in Whit</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">e Bluffs unless you </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">were born at home. I said, no, I was born in White Bluffs. There was a little house there, and there was some</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">doctor. I don't know who he was. He was an old, old man. And the lady I talked to, the nurse, was a retired army</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">nurse. And sh</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">e said she had studied--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">what's baby birth? It's not pediatrics.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">It's not pediatrics?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Well, anyhow.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Woman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Was it midwifery?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Yeah. Well, that's what she was. She was a midwife. So yeah. The boys were all born in Yakima.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Oh, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">My mother would go in there and stay with her mother.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">But you were born in White Bluffs?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I was born in White Bluffs. And isn't that funny? I can remember that, a white ho</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">use. It was spotless. And there </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">was no dogs and cats running around in it. No children. Just that old man and that lady. But I made it through.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Are there any other memories or stories, things you remember from growing up th</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">at we haven't talked about yet, </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">or I haven't asked you about yet that you'd like to talk about?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">No, I ended up with The Republic and then I got married. Well, I worked seven yea</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">rs at the newspaper office. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">the picnics and things that we had was over on the other house where we ha</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">d the big lawn. We always had a picnic there. </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">A lot of those people who were working at the warehouse would come over on Sunday</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> and bring one dish or </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">something, and all their kids. And they would play on our yard, because we had </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">water in the yard--came to go to the orchard--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">had been derailed and come on to the yard. And he had a</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">nd old lawnmower and mowed</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> it. So it was fun. And we had a lot of company, because every</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">body was beholden to my father. </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">And that's about all I can remember, but I wanted to express myself that this is </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">really from my heart, because I </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">have wanted to do this. And I appreciate all your help and the other people comin</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">g in and standing there waiting </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">for us to get done.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Well, I want to thank you very much for being willing to share your stories. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">his has been terrific. I really </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">appreciate it.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Thank you. And the weather there! The weather in </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">White Bluffs--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">I'm sorry. It wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">s beautiful, even though it was </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">desert. We had warm winters. I do not remember any snow. And it was a long trip</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> from White Bluffs to Yakima in </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">an old car.</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> [</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">bounces up and down</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">]</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Is that the Ford?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> An old Ford--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">no, no. Oh, my, no. We had a big Chevrolet. My brother bought it, then they went to war.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">So you took the Chevrolet once they were gone.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Mm-hm</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">. Well, I am a very happy person.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">[LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Well, thank you very much. Again, it was really appreciated.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Mm-hm</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Crew w</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">oman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Is that it?</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Crew w</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">oman</span>: Okay, well I heard you talking about the boat regatta.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Oh. Yeah. The boat regatta. There's a photo of the cars lined up on the river.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> Mm-h</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">m.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Could you talk about that at all? Do you have any memories about the--</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">Oh, yes. Because two of our men were in two of those boats. One of them was t</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">he </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span class="SpellingError SCX49048070">Wiehl</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">. I can't remember what </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">another man's name was. I don't remember too much about it, because to me t</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">he boats were just going around </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">and around and the rest of us kids were either try</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">ing to get ice cream, or [LAUGHTER] see how many rocks we could pick up or something. It wasn't--</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">and that's another thing, too. I probably mentioned that before. We w</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">ere never afraid. We were never </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">afraid. Day or night. If somebody new came into town, he was well covered. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">nd everybody knew who he was in ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> days, five days.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">The boat regattas, did it happen every year? Is that something that's a yearly</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">--</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">As far as I remember. I cannot say it was every year. Maybe every year for five ye</span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">ars or something like that. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX49048070">that was one of the biggest events. There was no rodeos, and no parades that I can ever remember.</span><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay. Well, Jean, let’s have you look at some of these photos, maybe. And have you talk a little bit about them.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Jean Johnso</span>n:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> All right. This is my mother and father’s wedding. They were married in Prosser in August 19—I almost want to say 1916. It doesn’t matter,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> really,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> it was somewhere in there. And they had met in White Bluffs, wh</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">ere mother’s family grew up—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">moved from Yakima to White Bluffs—was only 100 feet from Dad’s shack.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: So they met early in the shack. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: They were neighbors. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: Yeah. Okay, and this was a brand new Ford Turing. It wasn’t Turing—what did I tell you it was?</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: You thought maybe a M</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">odel A, possibly?</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: No. I don’t think—I don’t know. Maybe not, it was a brand new car. And when Dad went into White Bluffs</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> to pick up the car, he took the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> three boys with him and bought them all three new hats. So they were spiffy and ready to go. And here they were just showing me off.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> And this is my house in White Bluffs. I loved that house. And you can see from the pictures they had a great big lawn.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Right. More kids again here.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: Mm-hm. And we played—I was out on the grass all the time. The boys had pretend airports over here with their model airplanes. In those days they had airplanes that were made of steel or something</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">, they were</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> heavy.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And who took all these photos, did your parents have a camera then? Do you know?</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: Are we all there?</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: No, but I mean—this is the four o</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">f you kids, but did your family</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> have a—</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">J</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">ohnson</span>: Yeah. They had a Kodak B</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">ox. And those other pictures that I took when I was older, I had a little tiny thing that took 110. And then they finally did away with the 110 film. So the girls gave me a digital—3M or something, I don’t know. I can’t think.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> So I don’t take any more pictures. Yeah, this was 1937.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: So, you were about 12 years old? What year were you born?</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: ’25. No, I was little. I was about four, I didn’t get to go to school yet.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, here you were little</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">, yeah</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> Let’s see. Oops.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: Yeah. And that’s an orchard that they worked in and th</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">ey climbed up a tree. And there wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">s a ladder, and there’s the dog standing there with them. See that? </span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">Ben-ben</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> was always with them.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: That was your family dog?</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: Mm-hm. There was a—</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And who’s this here?</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: That’s my second brother. He was the one who was on the gas run for the Navy.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> He had come home from Pullman. He was very, very studious. He was the president of his senior class in college.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Oh, okay, was that Washington State?</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: Yes. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> this one—my</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> older brother went to the University of Washington, Seattle.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay, I’m going to bring in some of these school photos now.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: This was </span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">the </span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">seventh grade.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And which one are you in here? You see yourself?</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: Remember? </span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">I was in the background, up by the teacher, tall. Yeah. And this is what? Fifth</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> and sixth. We were younger</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">. See that’s me right there. My brothers were all ahead of me. And that man’s name was </span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span class="SpellingError SCX237666991">Tomet</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">. He lived in </span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">[UNKNOWN]. Fred </span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span class="SpellingError SCX237666991">Tomet</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And he was the teacher?</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: Mm-hm.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: This was taken outside in front the school.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: Mm-hm. That looks like a pretty good looking school, doesn’t it?</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: It does, yeah. Now here’s an earlier one.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: Yeah, that was the teacher of second grade. I told you when she came back she had a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> little tiny—had a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> belly on her! Next time we knew, she had a new baby in her arms. That was my experience of when children would come, taught in school.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And which one are you in this photo?</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: Oh, right there.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Uh-huh. And there’s grade school.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: Oh, t</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">his is a whole bunch of them!</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Looks like the whole grade school.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: It must be.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Of White Bluffs.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: I think I’m down here, because that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> was the teacher. And that was </span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">m</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">y</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> first grade teacher—I told you she was an older woman. And do you know, to this day—I called her Mrs. Moody—and there’s a lady in Ellensburg that my brothers went to school with. And they called her Mrs. So-and-so. In those days,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> that’s all we—you</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> did not call them by Martha and George. They were mister and missus. And that’s what—in that, the lists that Betsy made of all those men in town—I didn’t know their first names that came to me. But they were always Mr. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span class="SpellingError SCX237666991">Gilhuly</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> and Mr. Larsen and Mr. English. Kids in those days didn’t say, Hi Fred!</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> [referring to picture]</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> I can’t tell, I can’t tell. But I’m there.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And another thing I wanted you to talk about was this.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: Yeah, that was the name of my father’s apple. This was painted on the backside of his—on the solid end of the apple box. And that does say White Bluffs on it. Codding and Heideman, Fred Rea – Seattle was his—when his stuff was shipped out. When it went right into</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> the store, right into people, i</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">t was </span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">Pear in Yakima. Pear Fruit Company.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And who was Heideman?</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: He was a neighbor. We lived here, and went through the orchard and through the orchard, and he lived right there. And they had five children and they were all younger than we were. But it’s funny how they grew up, because two of the boys were teachers that came into Yakima. They were agriculture teachers and one was a livestock teacher. And they came into the school from Wenatchee. So many of those kids, you know, they moved out of White Bluffs when they had to. And they all stayed within the area, almost. I don’t know, some of them must have left and went out of state, but a lot of them just stayed with what they knew. That’s the only thing you could do, you couldn’t get really educated.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: A lot of them stayed close by?</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: Mm-hm.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: I meant to ask you, do you know how large your farm was, like how many acres?</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991">
<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> something like 22. It wasn’t large, but they were all trees.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991">
<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: And so your father partnered with Mr. Heideman for these apples.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: Well, I would say Mr. Heideman let</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">—knew</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> my father. Because he wanted to build it.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: And Heideman said, well, I’ll help you. And so they got in a real go</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">od friendship. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">Us</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> kids were all</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> good friends, but the parents didn’t have much to do until they got into this. But he was, as I said before, a lot of people had great respect for him for getting them jobs.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237666991">
<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Mm-</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span class="SpellingError SCX237666991">hm</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">, right.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: Now, not to change the subject, but my boys are the same way as my dad was. Because my boys hire whatever they have to hire. And they are—the boys that they hire comment to them and to their parents how easy and how nice it is to work here. Because they say thank you, they don’</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">t yell at them, they’re paid every</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> time they need money or time they’re off. And that’s what they have learned. If they did the work, pay them. Don’t say you have to wait until Monday. So they have very good respect in the Valley. I’m very</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991">, very</span><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"> proud of all of them.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Sure. I meant to ask you, how did you come across this label? How did you get this label?</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Johnson</span>: I have no idea. Somebody must have drawn it up for him.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237666991"><span class="TextRun SCX237666991"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Mm-hm. All right. Thanks. Thank you, that was very good. Very helpful.</span><span class="EOP SCX237666991"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX49048070"><span class="EOP SCX49048070"> </span></p>
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Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
244Kbps
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
01:04:24
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1925-2013
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Conning, Andrew
Johnson,Irma
Ponsat, Yvonne
Keele, Elizabeth
Reirson, Dick
Fred Gillhualy
Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano)1882-1945
Williams, Ted
Anderson, Harry
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Jean Johnson
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Jean Johnson conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-06-7: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Pasco (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
White Bluffs (Wash.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
7/31/2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
Kennewick (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945
White Bluffs (Wash.)
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F949c34824c3baa683668f048b76a3f7c.jpg
a7532e182135be110ec23c9c1739ee92
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Ff4c175dd0e7d7618799f999a667b9b3a.mp4
8ac495b3421b632f99b868b055771a34
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Joe Soldat
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div>
<div>
<p><strong><span>Northwest Public Television | </span><span>Soldat_Joe</span></strong></p>
<p><span><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Bauman</span>: Okay, all right. </span><span>W</span><span>ell, w</span><span>e'll go ahead and get started.</span><span> All right.</span><span> What I'm going to have you do first is say your name. And then spell it for me.</span></span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Joe Soldat</span>: Okay.</span><span> Joseph Soldat, S-O-L-D-A-T.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Thank you, and my name is Robert Bauman. And we're conducting an oral history interview. Today's date is </span><span>August 6</span><span>th</span><span> of 2013. And the interview is being conducted on the campus of Washington State University</span><span>,</span><span> Tri-Cities. </span><span>And so I'm talking today with Joe Soldat about his experiences working at the Hanford site. </span><span>So I wonder</span><span>--</span><span>let's start by maybe you tell me how you came to Hanford, what brought you here, how you heard </span><span>about the place.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>When I graduated from the University of Colorado with a degree in chemical engineering, I worked for a while at </span><span>the Denver General Hospital, which was associated with the university. And they lost their research grant. So I </span><span>heard from somebody that there was a place called Hanford. </span><span>So I wrote a letter to the employment department at GE. And I got a thing back, of course, that says, we got your </span><span>letter on file. But it wasn't too long afterwards they called me, and told me to come. So I agreed to come out, sight </span><span>unseen, on the train. </span><span>And I got off to train. I looked at all the sagebrush</span><span>,</span><span> like everybody, and said, oh, I'll give it a year or two. That was </span><span>1948. And I stayed on the project for 47 years.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Ah. </span><span>And so</span><span> you</span><span> arrived in this place of sage brush and desert.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>What sort of housing did you find?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, when I came they put me in a barracks in North Richland,</span><span> the </span><span>old military barracks</span><span>--</span><span>small rooms for two people </span><span>with a closet and a dresser. And </span><span>showers were down the hall. Maid</span><span> came in once a week to change the linens </span><span>and towels. </span><span>And I was paying $0.20 a day for rent. Eventually, I got to move to Richland</span><span>--</span><span>the dorm M4. And on the corner </span><span>right now is a bank where M2 used to be. And </span><span>M2 became a motel for a while—s</span><span>ome guy bought it. </span><span>And then it fin</span><span>ally became a bank. But my wife-to-</span><span>be lived in the women's dormitories with W numbers. And so we </span><span>finally met, and ended up getting married in '52.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>So did you live in the dorms for about four years from about '48 to '52</span><span> then</span><span>?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Yeah, before I got married, yeah. And we managed to get a house. Because I was in radiation protection, we had </span><span>some small priority on getting housing. And we picked out a p</span><span>re-cut on the south side, three-</span><span>bedroom. So we lived </span><span>there till '63.</span><span> And moved in a </span><span>ranch house where I live now on Torbett, in a remodeled ranch house with an extra bedroom.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>About how large were the dorms that you lived in?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>The dormitories? Well, I'd say maybe as big as from here to that wall square.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>About how many people lived in the dormitories as a whole?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: On the</span><span> whole, I don't know. They had</span><span>--</span><span>since I was on weekly salary, I had one kind of dormitory. Those that were </span><span>hired on monthly salary had a little fancier ones. And the women had their own real good ones with a fence </span><span>around it.</span></div>
<div>
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<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><br />Bauman</span>: </span><span>So what was Richland like in the late '40s and early '50s in the community?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, when I finally moved into town</span><span>, </span><span>the town, essentially, was closed. If you didn't work there, you could</span><span>n’t</span><span> live </span><span>there. You could come in. There was no fence around it. </span><span>But if you retired, you had to go somewhere else to live. There was no retirement housing. And the city, when I got </span><span>my house, supplied oil, or coal, free for the housing. So the rent was fairly reasonable at that time.</span><span> And they ha</span><span>d the fe</span><span>deral government until, I think</span><span> it was '58, when they sold houses to us, and got their own </span><span>governme</span><span>nt. One of my friends, Bob McKee</span><span>, was on the church council. And he became, eventually, mayor of </span><span>Richland. </span><span>His funeral is coming up Thursday. He died away back in the spring. But they delayed the funeral for relatives, I </span><span>guess. </span><span>But, anyway, I got a reasonable price for my house, I thought. It was like about $9,000 plus, because I had put up </span><span>a fence, and a little thing for storage of garbage cans and stuff. They thought it was the enhanced above the </span><span>original value. So I got a little better value. </span><span>We had the option of taking a buy back offer. If you wanted to sell the house back to the government in x number </span><span>of years, they would give you a 15% discount on your house. But I didn't opt for that. </span><span>I figured by then, I was going to stay.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span><span> They had a cafeteria in a building next</span><span> to the 703 Building, that old Q</span><span>uonset</span><span>hut-shaped building, that later became commercial facilities. But we could go in there for breakfast and get meals </span><span>that were partly for military style, like powdered scrambled eggs and stuff like that.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And w</span><span>hat about entertainment at the time you were living in the dorms? Were there things to do entertainment-wise?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: O</span><span>h, o</span><span>kay</span><span>. T</span><span>he people that lived in the dormitories could join the dorm club. We did all kinds of thing</span><span>s. We</span><span> had parties, dances, </span><span>skiing, bike riding, hiking—</span><span>everything before all these individual groups were established. So they covered the </span><span>whole share. I </span><span>learned to ski a little bit at Spout </span><span>Springs, made it down the beginner's hill.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And you said you met your wife during that time?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Yes.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Was she working also at the Hanford Site</span><span>, then</span><span>?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>She was a secretary. And she worked for a </span><span>while. We got married in June, a</span><span>nd in December, she had to quit </span><span>because she was pregnant. They would not allow</span><span>,</span><span> at that time</span><span>,</span><span> pregnant women to work after fourth or fifth month. </span><span>And then she never did go back to work. But she got involved in things like volunteering at the Red Cross, and </span><span>Republican Women's Club, and all the things kept her busy.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Did you meet as part of some social activity? Or was it on the job</span><span>,</span><span> at work that you met?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>She did all this being a housewife, all those things.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>But how did the two of you meet?</span><span> Was it at a--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>I'm trying hard to remember.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: O</span><span>h, o</span><span>kay</span><span>.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>I think I was introduced by a mutual friend, a guy that I used to bowl together. That's the other </span>thing we had for <span>entertainment in Richland, was bowling. And I liked doing that. </span><span>But one of the guys I bowled with, we went to the restaurant</span><span>. Next to the Richland Players</span><span> Theater used to be a </span><span>drug store, a</span><span>nd they had a little cafeteria in there. </span><span>We went in there, a</span><span>nd we met these two women. And he knew one of them. The other one was going to become </span><span>my wife.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
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<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Let's move now to the work you did at Hanford. What was your first job?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>My first job while I was waiting for my clearance was in wh</span><span>at was the bioassay lab in 700 A</span><span>rea doing statistical </span><span>analysis of the resu</span><span>lts of the analysis of employee</span><span>s</span><span>’</span><span> urine for radioactive contamination. I wasn't allowed to know </span><span>everything I was analyzing. But I did a statistical analysis. </span><span>I had </span><span>a</span><span> orange card, which allowed me in, because I didn't have my clearance. Theoretically, I was supposed to </span><span>be escorted in and out. But there was such a mob of people going in and out they never bothered to ask me who</span><span>my escort was.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>So where was this at?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: 700 Area, 703 B</span><span>uilding</span><span>—</span><span>the old one. And the b</span><span>ioassay lab was inside the 716 B</span><span>uilding, I think it was.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And so how long did you do that?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>I did that</span><span>--</span><span>well, I came in August, '48. And it was five months before I got my clearance. Then I went out to T Plant </span><span>as a radiation monitor in training.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And how long did you work there?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Oh, gosh, I worked there for a couple of years. And then I got transferred to environmental monitoring. Out there </span><span>in 2-East Area, environmental monitorin</span><span>g people were housed in an old Q</span><span>uonset hut next to the coal pile. </span><span>You had to go in and sweep your desk off with a broom every morning to get the coal dust off of it.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span><span> And I stayed </span><span>there for a </span><span>while. I did some projects, calibrating some instruments, and other things.</span><span> And then we moved to 329 Building in 300 </span><span>Area. I think it was in the early '50s. And I stayed in environmental </span><span>monitoring work ever since</span><span>,</span><span> through the rest of my career</span><span>,</span><span> writing impact statements, deriving equations for </span><span>calculating dose to the public from releases at Hanford in food, and water, and air, and stuff like that. </span><span>And my models are still being used some places. I was</span><span>--</span><span>we didn't have a lot of data. But I learned from the turtle </span><span>you don't make progress unless you </span><span>stick your neck out. That’s how they do. S</span><span>ometimes throw darts at the chemistry </span><span>chart on the wall. And say, well, this one should behave like that one, and put together what we could know. </span><span>And my coworker Dave Baker was a computer guy. I'm not very good at computers. But he computerized a lot of </span><span>my equations and stuff. Between us, we agreed and what kind of factors to use. </span><span>There was some literature from the fallout studi</span><span>es. There was a fellow named </span><span>Yoka</span><span> Ng</span><span>, </span><span>N-G</span><span>,</span><span> in </span><span>California who had to put together a lot of data for the fallout branch on concentrations of various chemical </span><span>elements in soil and plants, which made it very easy for me to predict the update of the radionuclides.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>So</span><span>,</span><span> what kind of findings did you have at some of your research about things that happened at Hanford in terms of </span><span>the air, and water, and so forth?</span></p>
<p><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span>Soldat</span></span><span>: </span><span>Well, depends on what you want. It</span><span> all started in '58 when Jack Healy</span><span> gave a paper at the International </span><span>Atomic Energy Symposium. And he talked about what we were measuring in the environment, and the kind of </span><span>findings that we had. </span><span>And we eventually created a maximum individual person who ate big amounts of food, and drank milk from cows, </span><span>and fish from the river, and all that. And then we calculated the dose he would get from concentrations in these </span><span>things. And things were </span>generally below the limits that they had at those times. <span>Originally, in the early years the limits for the public were the same as workers. It took them a while to figure out </span><span>that there are, perhaps, more sensitive people in the public because workers were all health screened and </span><span>everything. So they lowered all the</span><span> public limits by a factor of ten</span><span> to be safer. </span><span>And we also had to put controls on releases to the atmosphere. The manager of the radiation protection </span><span>de</span><span>partment—it call was called health instruments at first—</span><span>set limits for the reprocessing plants, and how much </span><span>iodine they could release, and other things. And they worked hard during those years in the '50s and '60s putting </span><span>in new cleanup equipment on the stacks</span><span>—</span><span>sand fi</span><span>lters. And then eventually PUREX</span><span> had fiberglass filters to remove </span><span>the particles and stuff. </span><span>So I've installed sampling equipment on all of the stacks</span><span>, and the separation there is, s</span><span>om</span><span>e of them before and </span><span>after the cleanup so they could see what the efficiency was. And I kept track</span><span>,</span><span> by goin</span><span>g to the operating gallery</span><span>,</span><span> what </span><span>kind of metal they were processing, how old it was, how much it had decayed, so</span><span> we could relate things to what </span><span>we were</span><span> finding at the stacks. </span><span>That data is still around. And when they did the dose reconstruction under Bruce Na</span><span>pier, they used a lot of my old </span><span>data about the stack releases. Fortunately, Bruce had an office next to me.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span><span> So we communicated.</span></p>
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<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>So you worked there for how many years at Hanford?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>47.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>47, you must have seen a lot of changes in technology, instrumentation, those sorts of things?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>And administration.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span><span> Yeah. GE, at one time, I think it must have been in the '50s, </span><span>decided that they would have no </span><span>job descripti</span><span>on titled assistant, or under-</span><span>secretary, or whatever like that. There w</span><span>ould be no committees doing any </span><span>administration. Every job had to have a written, definitive description specifying the d</span><span>uties, and the authorities, and </span><span>the obligations. And it worked we</span><span>ll for a long time. </span><span>And then before that, when I wanted to get a paper cleared, I had to go through</span><span> about half a dozen signatures, </span><span>including public relations, of course. But then later on, I</span><span>--</span><span>essentially with </span><span>my boss and one guy from public </span><span>relations</span><span>--</span><span>they all had to clear my public paper</span><span>s. And it worked out well then. Then Battelle</span><span> took over, reorganized things a little bit. And a funny thing hap</span><span>pened. I had a secret clearance </span><span>with GE. When </span><span>Battelle </span><span>took over, they decided that they didn't want to hav</span><span>e too many secret clearances to </span><span>manage. So they lowered my clearance and several other people</span><span>’s. </span><span>I want to the library to get a report I had written in 1949, classified secret. They gave</span><span> it to me on microfiche. I read </span><span>it, and I asked for a full printed copy. The remark I got eventually was, you can't</span><span> it. You're not cleared for it. </span><span>What are you going to do, brainwash me?</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span><span> So </span><span>Battelle </span><span>had to raise my clearance back to what it was before.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Because you had written secret reports?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>I talked about iodine releases to the environment, a</span><span>nd measurements inside the 200 A</span><span>reas.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>I understand you were involved in a comprehensive food model?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>What was that?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, about the late '60s, Westinghouse had a project to try and calculate dose</span><span>s to the US public from a large </span><span>nuclear economy, especially reactors, and ignoring the waste part. And they </span><span>needed to know what would be in </span><span>food, and </span><span>water, and air, and everything. </span><span>And a fellow by the name of Bill Templeton who was an aquatic biologist worked with me at first. And then, f</span><span>inally, he said, okay</span><span>, </span>Joe. You're doing all right. So he turned me loose. But I <span>had a fellow, Dennis Harr, who came to Hanford from Alaska. </span><span>He was a fores</span><span>t hydrologist. They assigned hi</span><span>m to me to help look up the fa</span><span>ctors I needed. He came here to </span><span>WSU</span><span>--</span><span>or to Pullman, really</span><span>—</span><span>and looked up all of thinking about how much </span><span>a cow eats, how much water they </span><span>drink, and how many acres of this and that is growing. So he was very helpful lo</span><span>oking all that stuff up for me. </span><span>I just sat down and wrote an equation. I h</span><span>ad heard that in the Windscale</span><span> acciden</span><span>t that the iodine they released </span><span>stuck about 25% to plants. So I used that factor.</span><span> And I added that stuff from </span><span>Yoka</span><span> Ng with the soil to plant </span><span>ratios. So I modeled the uptake from soil, and combine all that in a big long equ</span><span>ation with about 21 parameters. </span><span>And I gave a paper on that</span><span> at an ANS meeting in the '70s. </span><span>And I also developed a diagram</span><span>—a </span><span>pathway </span><span>diagram I call it</span><span>--</span><span>with all of the line</span><span>s from all of the sources going </span><span>across and interacting. And then at the end, they combined for the dose at the end. </span><span>And that got published, too, in my '70 paper. </span><span>And I did put all that stuff together with some other things for </span><span>Reg</span><span> G</span><span>uide 1</span><span>.109. It included my calculated </span><span>dose factors for people of four ages</span><span>--</span><span>four years, 11 years, 17 or 16, and adu</span><span>lt, because the organ sizes are </span><span>differe</span><span>nt. So the doses are different. That was in there, my food model was in there, a</span><span>nd then I developed a model </span><span>for exposure to sediment in the </span><span>Columbia River. Dick Perkins had measured three or four radionuclides in the se</span><span>diment in the Columbia River as </span><span>best you could, because it's awful rocky on the bottom. And analysis of that to</span><span>ld me what the relationship was </span><span>between the water and the sediment, assuming it had been running for many year</span><span>s, and had time to come to equilibrium. </span><span>So I developed the equation for that, whic</span><span>h included the radioactive half-</span><span>life of the</span><span> elements. And that was used in </span><span>several instances in impact statements about</span><span>--</span><span>I think it was '59, t</span><span>hey had something called a Calve</span><span>rt Cliffs </span><span>Decision, in which they were trying to build a reactor. And the government wa</span><span>s forced to do an environmental </span><span>impact statement on every existing</span><span> reactor and every new reactor. </span><span>First rule was 100 pages</span><span>’ length. But it still grew,</span><span> because people were copy</span><span>ing what other people had done. Well, this flew, so we'll put it in. </span><span>Then they add unique things to their site. And it kept growing and growing. But the</span><span>re were 50 reactors that had to </span><span>have impact statements. And they split it up three ways between</span><span> Argonne</span><span> Nat</span><span>ional Laboratory, Oak Ridge, and Hanford. </span><span>And I got involved in the Hanford one. First time I used my sediment model was </span><span>for plants on the shore of Lake </span><span>Michigan, and exposure to people standing on the shoreline</span><span>--</span><span>first time I used it off-site. And we calculated the </span><span>dose someone might receive from the sediment contaminated from the water which came from the reactor outlet</span><span> that was dilut</span><span>ed before it got to where the fishermen was. So that was added to the impact statement, along with </span><span>the fish, and</span><span> all</span><span> the other stuff that we normally did.</span></p>
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<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Hanford, of course, when you first arrived was all about prod</span><span>uction. But at some point that </span><span>shifted to cleanup. Did </span><span>that shift impact your work in anyway?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, yes and no.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span><span> It changed exactly what I was doing. But I was still doing environmental stuff. </span><span>For cleanup</span><span>—</span><span>well, before that we were doing impact statements for new things at Hanford, like a front end for</span><span> PUREX to do</span><span> 100</span><span> N</span><span> fuel, and all kinds of stuff. Afterwards, I was doing impact statements and studies for</span><span>proposed cleanup. There was a big, fat three-volume document</span><span>--</span><span>I think it was SWASH</span><span> 1400, it started out. It</span><span> ended up being ERDA</span><span> 1400. </span><span>And in there, they studied every possible waste source, contamination source, potential for accidents and </span><span>exposure. And I did a lot of </span><span>those calculations. So one thing they wanted, which is very current today, they wanted </span><span>to know, what would happen if a tank leaked? </span><span>They said, what would happen if 1,000 gallons of tank leaked all at once</span><span>? So I got a guy, Andy </span><span>Reisenhau</span><span>er</span><span>, in</span><span> the</span><span> water department we called them. He was doing ground water studies. </span><span>And he figured it out. With this modeling, he showed how small the contaminated area would be, and how,</span><span> essentially</span><span> harmless and well-confined to the immediate vicinity it was. And I get all upset now a days about the </span><span>clamor about everybody that don't understand what's going on, even the governor. </span><span>[LAUGHTER] </span><span>At least he tried.</span></p>
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<div><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>So when you started working for GE, what other contractors</span><span>--</span><span>you worked for Battelle?</span><span> Is that right?</span></div>
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<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><br />Soldat</span>: Yeah. Battelle </span><span>just took over everything we were doing. Almost all people came directly to </span><span>Battelle.</span><span> There were a</span><span> few that stayed in the 200 A</span><span>reas the reprocessing areas. B</span><span>ut some of them later came to Battelle. </span><span>So a few </span><span>stayed out there, worked for the various contractors they had. </span><span>But it was nice, because having been altogether in GE, I could still communicate with those people when I needed </span><span>information and data on releases, and access, and things. I could talk to them directly. I didn't have to go up and </span><span>down the channels.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>You mentioned earlier that you had written a secret report. And you had to go back and look at it, they </span><span>initially </span><span>told you </span><span>you couldn't. As a site that, obviously, emphasized security and secrecy, I wonder if you could talk about how the </span><span>emphasis on secrecy and security impacted your work in any</span><span>way.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, I told you what happened to me</span><span> when I was working in the 700 A</span><span>rea. And I </span><span>got here in</span><span> '48. In '53,</span><span> they renewed the Q</span><span> clearances. I got called in the FBI for interview. </span><span>They said, when you were in college</span><span>—</span><span>that's like in '46 or '47</span><span>--</span><span>you attended a meeting of, I think it was, SDS, </span><span>which was supposed to be a Communist-related organization. They had a meeting in the park. </span><span>They were complaining about their treatment. And it was a big hullabaloo. And I decided I'd go down and see what </span><span>was going on. </span><span>Apparently, they had spies watching all these people. So they started asking me questions about that. And I </span><span>explained it away to their satisfactio</span><span>n. They said, do you ever read </span><span>T</span><span>he Communist Manifesto</span><span>? I said, no, but </span><span>maybe I should someday.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>When you first started working there, did you take the bus out to the site?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Pardon?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>When you first started working there, how did you get to the site and back? Did you take the bus out? Did you </span><span>drive a car?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>There was no background checks when I first came, because I had that work card. It took them five months to do </span><span>all the investigations of relatives and friends to find out if I was reliable. And I</span><span> finally got my Q clearance. </span><span>But they may have reviewed things other than that one I know about since. But the FBI was doing it at that time. </span><span>Later on, they farmed it out to a different government agency. And I don't think the checks were quite as thorough </span><span>at that time. </span><span>But you couldn't drive through the project like you can today. When you want to go to the west side, you can drive </span><span>down towards Vantage through the project. It's all right. But it used to be all sealed off. You had to go around by </span><span>Robinson's barn to get where you're going.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>And when you went through security at the gate, did you have to show a badge?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, after I got my clearance, they checked everybody's badge go</span><span>ing through. At one time in 300 A</span><span>rea, they had </span><span>a badge rack. You would put your badge in the rack to go home. They didn't want you taking it off site. </span><span>Well, one thing, you might get exposed from TV.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span><span> The old TV sets had a relatively high energy coming out at the </span><span>bottom. Some kid sat there with his feet under the TV set, he might get a little bit of exposure. </span><span>And so one day, I wore some radiation dosimeters, those pencil dosimeters on myself while I was watching TV at </span><span>a distance. And then I put some by the TV set to compare the readings. And there was a small difference.</span><span> [LAUGHTER] Yeah, a</span><span>t first, </span><span>I thought security was a little lax because of the way they w</span><span>ere letting you go through 700 A</span><span>rea</span><span>,</span><span> first few months. </span><span>But it got pretty tight afterwards.</span></p>
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<div><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Were there any events or incidents, anything that happened</span><span>—accidents of any kind, </span><span>that happened when you </span><span>were working at Hanford, or strange occurrences? Anything sort of stand out in your mind?</span></div>
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<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><br />Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, there was a few, of course. They had limit</span><span>s they set on the releases for i</span><span>odine-131. They had an experiment </span><span>in whi</span><span>ch they wanted to have short coole</span><span>d fuel, which would have more iodine in it, to released short-lived inert </span><span>gases like Xenon and Krypton to the atmosphere so the Air Force could fly around with a plane and measure it. </span><span>As I figure out, the idea was they could fly around Russia and see what kind of production they might be having </span><span>from what they could detect in the air over a facility. Well, when they had</span><span>—</span><span>it's called a green run, when they had </span><span>that, the iodine came out. A</span><span>nd there was a little bit of to-</span><span>do about that in later years, and people being exposed. </span><span>And even before the iodine releases were controlled, there was quite a few releases. But in later years, I used my</span><span> rules of thumb I learned, and</span><span> my models to predict what doses probably were in the early years before they had </span><span>reconstruction done. And I came probably within a factor of two of what they spent millions of dollars to calculate.</span><span> [LAUGHTER] </span><span>But that was one thing. And then they had some fuel that was mislab</span><span>eled, and it was short cooled, t</span><span>hat released </span><span>iodine in t</span><span>he 200 A</span><span>reas. </span><span>And we went out and studied the vegetation on the project, and all around. Well, it turns out the iodine was held in </span><span>the tanks for a while. And the vegetation that we measured didn't have any until they transferred the solution to </span><span>another tank. </span><span>Then the iodine escaped. And then we could find it on the vegeta</span><span>tion—we found it in the Pasco a</span><span>rea, and West </span><span>Richland. And the meteorological group predicted it would</span><span>--</span><span>according to the weather, it should</span><span> be</span><span> high in north of </span><span>Pasco. Well, it wasn't high there. </span><span>It was higher in Benton City than it was in Richland. An</span><span>d there was a Benton City farm tha</span><span>t had milk. And we sampled </span><span>that milk every day for a long time, and plotted the curve as it decayed. </span><span>And I backtracked it for a couple of days that we had missed. And I calculated the radiation dose a kid might have </span><span>drinking that milk. And the standard model was one liter of milk a day. </span><span>And I calculated all that. And we couldn't get the kids to come in to get a thyroid check for a</span><span>while. The mother was </span><span>reluctant. Finally, he came in months later. And at that point, I predicted the thyroid burden ought to be 70 </span><span>picocuries. And it turned out, he was measured 72 picocuries.</span><span> Then s</span><span>omething really interesting happened with that. Some anti-</span><span>nuclears</span><span> said that I had reported on thi</span><span>s thing, a</span><span>nd the </span><span>dose was less than a fraction of the limits. So it's all right to die by a fraction at a time. </span><span>Somebody else picked that up, and said I had pin pointed the death of a small child drinking that milk. So some</span><span> guy from Oak Ri</span><span>dge, his name was Piper, investigated all this stuff, and tried to put everything straight, and </span><span>straighten out all these misconceptions. But you can see what happens to the press.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>So what time period was that?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>That was in '63. It's all publ</span><span>ished in </span><span>Health Physics Journal</span><span>, and all that stuff. They had an iodine symposium in</span><span> 1963—</span><span>a biology symposium. People all over the world came here. </span><span>And we met in the old community house, this little anteroom off to the side, with swamp coolers. And it was 116 in </span><span>Pasco.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span><span> It was a mess. </span><span>But we published a whole book of the papers. And I have a couple in here, at least by abstract anyway. I learned a</span><span>lot about the different factors, again, and improved my knowledge of what was going on.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>So when there were releases of iodine, you were involved in calculating the--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Measurements?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Yeah, another thin</span><span>g I did was I stood out by a met</span><span> tower wearing a respirator device that </span>measured my <span>breathing rate by volume. And they released iodine</span><span>--</span><span>I think it was 135 or 132, a real short </span><span>half life</span><span>--</span><span>that</span><span> another </span><span>guy</span><span> and I</span><span> could stand there and inhale. And then we went and got our thyroids counted, and watched the decay, and </span><span>integrated the whole thing. </span><span>And my </span><span>total dose was probably about ten</span><span> mil</span><span>lirem</span><span>, compared to the limit, which was 1,500 a year at that time. Herb </span><span>Parker got real mad, because we hadn't chec</span><span>ked with him to see if it was okay</span><span>. He said we should have our thyroids </span><span>examined before we did it.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
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<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: So you were used as test subjects?</span></p>
<p><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span>Solda</span></span><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">t</span>: The other release was from RE</span><span>DOX</span><span>--</span><span>ruthenium</span><span>--</span><span>there was two </span><span>rutheniums</span><span>:</span><span> 106, and 103. And the scrubber in the </span><span>plant that was supposed to remove these from their exhaust failed. And it released about 40 curie of ruthenium </span><span>out the stack. </span><span>It was detectable on Wahluke Slope, and all the way up just southeast of Spokane. It missed all of real good </span><span>farms, and everything, fortunately. So we went up collecting a lot of samples from that. </span><span>Then there was a contamination on Hanford itself on the roofs of some of the buildings and the ground. So that </span><span>was all cleaned up. I spent some time monitoring transportation workers who were going around picking up</span><span> particles around the 200 A</span><span>reas. </span><span>The other thing that happened is they found radioactive rabbits and coyotes</span><span>--</span><span>BC trenches, in 2 </span><span>East</span><span> Area</span><span>. They </span><span>disposed of waste which had cesium. And, of course, it's a salt relative to sod</span><span>ium in the</span><span> nuclei</span><span>c</span><span> chart. </span><span>And the rabbits got in there were eating the waste with the cesium, and digging down. And the coyotes were </span><span>eating the rabbits. And so we were finding this contaminated environment, and traced it down to that. </span><span>It didn't travel more than a mile or two. Rabbits have a very short range. They don't travel more than a couple </span><span>miles. And so that had to all get cleaned up, and cove</span><span>red over, put to rest. There</span><span> was a few things like that.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Did any of these incidents or releases</span><span>--</span><span>were there ever any that you looked at, studied, calculated, and found</span><span> that</span><span> it </span><span>was a risk to employees, or to the public at all?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>No, most of them were</span><span>--</span><span>the release of the strontium, the </span><span>highest concentration found at Wahluke Slope </span><span>across the river was</span><span>--</span><span>if a guy stood there and breathed the whole time the cloud time went by, he might have got </span><span>80 milligram to the lungs. And, of course, at that time, we were getting 100 milligram a year from radiation. And </span><span>the limit to the public was 1,500. So, really, it wasn't that significant.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>I wanted to ask you about a little bit different part of it. President Kenned</span><span>y visited in 1963 to open the N </span><span>Reactor.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Yeah, I want to see--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Were you there? Were you part of it?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>I was standing far back in the</span><span> crowd</span><span>. And I could barely see the President. They opened up to the site to the </span><span>public to go there. And I rode with a friend. And he and his son went with me. We watched that thing.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Do you rememb</span><span>er anything else about that day?</span><span> Or just being really far away?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, I remember when the helicopter landed with the President inside it</span><span>,</span><span> kicked up an awful lot of dust. I was glad </span><span>that maybe it wasn't all that contaminated for people to breathe.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Do you remember any other time when any dignitaries came to the site?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Yeah, I just noticed something I looked at this week. Nixon visited Battelle facilities, the main research building. </span><span>And Ronald Re</span><span>a</span><span>gan was here one time.</span></p>
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<div><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>I wondered what you would consider the greatest challenges you had during your years working Hanford, and the </span><span>greatest rewards?</span></div>
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<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><br />Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, I don't know. The least of my challenges was working with administration, because usually they managed to </span><span>turn me loose when they found out what I was doing. I think that the challenge was finding data in the open </span><span>literature that I could use to put into my models. I'd go to the library in those days, you would ask for literature, and </span><span>sit down, and read it, and take notes</span><span>—</span><span>not like today. </span><span>So I found things, eventually, from researche</span><span>rs in Russia who had studied </span><span>uptake</span><span> and radionuclides in </span><span>fish,</span><span> and studies at Oak R</span><span>idge on fallout in cattle, and all these things. But finding data was a little hard, not because it </span><span>was classified. But </span><span>it was in the open literature, a</span><span>nd you had to think about where it might be located. That was </span><span>one of my most challenging things. </span><span>The other challenge was to learning how to use Word Perfect. </span><span>[LAUGHTER] </span><span>My secretary forced me to learn it. She helped </span><span>teach me because she couldn't read my handwriting. That was a challenge for a while. I still have trouble with </span><span>computers. </span><span>But I think the biggest reward was all of the recognition I got from management, and Health Physics Society, and </span><span>other grou</span><span>ps. I got a file about that thick that I labeled K</span><span>u</span><span>dos. And when they have the r</span><span>ecouplex incident in 234</span><span>-</span><span>5</span><span>that had a solution that wasn't handled right. And it had a</span><span> nuclear</span><span> re</span><span>action, in an outfit called recouplex. </span><span>We worked a week or so overtime in evening, and around the clock some of us, working on the effects of that, and </span><span>the dose to the people. And I had measurements of the stack ga</span><span>ses. And I predicted from the st</span><span>ack gases how </span><span>many fissions had occurred in that pot. And then the other guys, the real nuclear experts, came and did theirs. </span><span>And we agreed within a factor of two again. </span><span>But, yeah, it never really did much off-site again</span><span>. It dissipated before it got </span><span>anywheres</span><span>. We plotted the path, a</span><span>nd by the time it reached the boundary of the site over towards Pas</span><span>co it was essentially nothing. B</span><span>ecause when</span><span>you have a nuclear reaction like that, </span><span>you generate a lot of short-lived</span><span> radionuclide</span><span>s with seconds, and minutes, and </span><span>days. And so it really wasn't that effective off-site.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>What was the time period of that incident?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>I want to say April '62, I guess.</span><span> [LAUGHTER]</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Being involved in environmental monitoring, and monitoring the effects of releases and that sort of thing, did you </span><span>at any point</span><span>—</span><span>it seems like at some point, nuclear power became</span><span>--</span><span>like, certa</span><span>in groups opposed that, right?</span><span> You had</span><span>groups that</span><span> became</span><span> opposed </span><span>to </span><span>nuclear power</span><span>, and the use of--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Obtained what?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Opposed to nuclear power--</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Oh, oh.</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Anti-nuclear stuff. D</span><span>id you feel that at all at work</span><span>, I mean or stuff you were involved in</span><span>?</span></p>
<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Soldat</span>: </span><span>Well, yeah</span><span>--</span><span>well, there are people off-</span><span>site who</span><span>--</span><span>that story I told you about that small child. And then there was </span><span>another guy, he worked at the University of Pittsburgh. I'm trying to remember his name. </span><span>He predicted all the dire re</span><span>sults of fallout from strontium-90. He gave a talk at strontium-</span><span>90 symposium in biology</span><span>put on here one time. </span><span>And he came to me a</span><span>nd says, I need to get my slides remade. </span><span>What he was doing was correlating</span><span> the concentration of strontium-</span><span>90 in milk and leukemia in children. Well, this </span><span>curve went to pot. And he decided he needed to summarize, average it, over two years. And eventually that went </span><span>to pot. It didn't work. </span><span>So then he eventually tried four years. And he asked me if I could get his slides rebuilt for his talk so he could use </span><span>them for a four-ye</span><span>ar average. So I went to Bill Bair who</span><span> was the manager of the symposium. </span><span>And he said, sure, we'll do it for him. And </span>they did. And he used them. Of course, a lot of people in the audience <span>knew better than to believe what he was saying.</span></p>
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<p><span><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span>Is there anything that we haven't talked about yet that you would like to talk about? That I haven't asked you </span><span>about?<br /></span><br />Soldat: Well, I got some awards. I don't know if you're interested. The local chapter Health Physics Society gave me what's called a Herb Parker Award for Distinguished Service. And then I got elected fellow of the National Society. And then I got the National Distinguished Scientific Achievement Award from the Health Physics Society, which was sort of a review of my total career, and all the, quote, the great things that I had done. The environmental section in the National Health Physics Society established an award for environmental radioactivity measurements type of stuff. And a fellow, a friend, Jack Corley, who worked here, and I got the first ones that they awarded for that as distinguished service. And then I got a plaque from Bill Bair when he was retiring. So he's such a nice guy, he awarded about three or four plaques to employees outlining their distinguished careers. I was one of them. And it's for all the work I had done on radioiodine. So I got that plaque.</p>
<p>Bauman: And you're involved in the Herbert Parker Foundation? Is that right? Are you part of that?</p>
<p>Soldat: I volunteered not to get involved in the Parker Foundation. I let Ron Kathren, and Bill Bair and Dale Denham, and all these guys do it. I worked for a little while after I retired for Dave Muller and Associates to help with the down-winders case, writings some papers on it, and releases, and another one with Jack Selby on plutonium releases from the 200 Areas that were used in the hearings for that business. I haven't really--well, people call me up every once in a while and ask questions—pro bono. [LAUGHTER]</p>
<p>Bauman: Overall, how would you assess your 47 years working at Hanford as a place to work?</p>
<p>Soldat: For me, it was a great job. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I had wonderful people, except maybe one case of this one boss. But totally great people, and I felt like I was doing something worth while. And it was useful. Later on, it got to be where everybody was writing impact statements, which are not a product. It bothered me a little bit. Even I got involved. And those were kind of necessary. EPA at one time says, we need you to calculate the effect of this dose out to the year 10,000. I said, what? So I got out my business card. And I changed it from environmental engineer to science fiction writer. [LAUGHTER] But I had a great time. I tried to get in the army when I first graduated from high school. And I couldn't because of my ears. And the Navy wouldn't take me because of my eyes, the program for officers. So I ended up—third choice was out here to do my part. [LAUGHTER]</p>
<p>Bauman: Well, I want to thank you very much for coming in today, and sharing your stories with us, and your experiences. I appreciate it.</p>
<p>Soldat: I hope it's been useful.</p>
<p>Bauman: Yes. Thank you.</p>
<p>Soldat: Yeah, just carrying this around helped me remember.</p>
<p><span> </span></p>
</div>
Location
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Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
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00:53:44
Bit Rate/Frequency
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209 kbps
Hanford Sites
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700 Area
2-East Area
329 Building
300 Area
200 Area
N Reactor
703 Building
716 Building
Reduction-Oxidation Plant (REDOX)
Plutonium Uranium Extraction Plant (PUREX)
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1948-2013
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1948-1995
Names Mentioned
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Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
McKee, Bob
Baker, Dave
Healy, Jack
Templeton, Bill
Harr, Dennis
Perkins, Dick
Andy Reisenhauer
Parker, Herb
Corley, Jack
Kathren, Ron
Bair, Bill
Denham, Dale
Muller, Dave
Selby, Jack
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Joe Soldat
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Joe Soldat conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
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Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date Modified
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2016-06-30: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Subject
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Richland (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Nuclear weapons plants--Health aspects--Washington (State)--Hanford Site Region
Date
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8/6/2013
Rights
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Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
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video/mp4
Provenance
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The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
2-East Area
200 Area
300 Area
329 Building
700 Area
703 Building
716 Building
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
N Reactor
Pasco (Wash.)
Plutonium Uranium Extraction Plant (PUREX)
Reduction-Oxidation Plant (REDOX)
Richland (Wash.)
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F3e4aaec73e6f6c9ba18a36475c893e05.jpg
bde01b50c49fdd19de9845aaa9a2a017
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fab86fcd9bafe1ad87121451929b5f8b0.mp4
bf4cb3c2a0e804cfdad85f1d48db7166
Dublin Core
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Title
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Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
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Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
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Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
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Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
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Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Laura Arata
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Leonard Peters
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX237872738">
<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">Peters_Leonard</span></span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></strong></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Leonard </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Leonard Peters. L-E-O-N-A-R-D P-E-T-E-R-</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">S.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Thank you. My name's Laura Arata. It's November 19</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX237872738">th</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">already</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--2013, and we're </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">conducting this interview on the campus of Washington State Uni</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">versity Tri-Cities. So I wonder </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">if we could start, if you could tell us a little bit about how </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">your family came to Hanford and where you were from.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I was born in Denver in August of '43. My father came out in June or July of '43 from Denver.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And so my mom, myself, and my brother were there in Denver, and when I was two months</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">old we</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> came out with another family, t</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">he Carl Eckert family. And it was my mom, Mrs. Eckert,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">their daughter</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--who was </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">about my age</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and my brothers. So five of us came out in a car in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">October of '43. And my dad was working out here. And so that's how we came out, was in an</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">old car.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And what was your father doing at Ha</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">nford?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">He was a truck driver. He drove for Remington Arms in Denver, who was DuPont, and he also</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">worked for Bechtel up in Alaska. And he came down and went back to Denver and was driving,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">heard about this place. And if you'd like a very interesting story--</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Always.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">He was driving for an Army officer. A colonel or something, I'm not sure. Kind of a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I'll say</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">chauffeur, but it wasn't really a chauffeur. But my dad had heard about this place. And he</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">asked his</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I'll say colonel</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">about it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And very few people knew about it. But this colonel says,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> well,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> I can't tell you anything about it, but if</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">you've heard of heavy water, it has something to do with heavy water.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Of course my dad, heavy water didn't mean anything to him. But you know, hindsight. It's kind</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">of interesting to me this colonel knew a little bit about what was going on here. As big a secret</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">as it was, not that many people knew. But he had some idea of what was going on. I found</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that very interesting.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yeah. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And how long d</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">id your father work at the Hanford site?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">From '43 until he retired in '73.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Okay, well, w</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">e'll come back to that. I want to ask you just a few questions about the area. Obviously you</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">were very, very young</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I'm sorry. He passed away in '73. He retired in '67.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">. I'll have more questions for you.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Do you remember, growin</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">g up, what sort of housing </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">you lived i</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">n, what the situation was like?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">My first memory was an A house, 1520 Thayer. We moved in there about 1945. So that's my</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">first memory, though we lived many places before that, as my dad's Q clearance bears out.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But my memory goes back to the A house in 1945.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Did yo</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">u live there for quite a while?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Lived there until around '56, '57.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And could you describe that house a little bit, for anyone w</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ho doesn't know what an A house is?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">An A house is a duplex, two-story. You have neighbors literally right next door to you. It was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">three-bedroom, all upstairs. And of course back then there was no air conditioning, and it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">would get hot in the summertime. I can literally remember s</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ummers, 109 to </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">110, </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">112 degrees. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the only air conditioning was a swamp cooler. So it was pretty miserable, but yet you </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">didn't </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">think about it beca</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">use that's just the way it was. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">The government literally furnished everything, from throw rugs to</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> table, chairs. I mean literally </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">everything. Coal. We had a coal-burning furnace, and like on</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ce a month or so on, they would </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">deliver coal. And you had to make sure there was a coal bin that </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">had slats in it, and you had to </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">make sure that the slats were in, because if you forgot to put t</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">he slats in you'd have coal all over the basement floor. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And so that was kind of interesting. My dad, every morning,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> would have to get up and stoke </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the fire and get it going in wintertime, because we used </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">to have some pretty bad winters </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">compared to today. And so that was, again, ju</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">st part of living in this area. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Dust storms. You've heard of the termination w</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">inds. The wind would blow and the </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">curtains would go back and forth and just wave in the breeze, w</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ith all the windows closed. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">you'd have a quarter of an inch of dust on the windowsills a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">nd everything. But there again, </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that's just the way it w</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">as. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I can remember one story</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">my wife tells that w</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">hen her m</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">other came out with her and her </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">brother, met at the train station, and the father was the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">re to pick them up. There was a </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">windstorm right then. And her first words were "Sherman, get me a ticket bac</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">k home." And </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">they ended up dying here, and buried here. And I know my dad, he swore he would never</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—he </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">wanted to go back to Colorado, but again, he was buried here and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> lived here all the rest of his life. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But what e</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">lse can I say on the government?</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Everyth</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ing—y</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ou know, I've heard of people</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—we </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">never did do it, but people get tired of a chair or something, they</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">'d break it, call housing. They </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">would need another chair, and they'd come out and replace the chair. And if you had</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—back </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">then they had fuses, as opposed to breakers. Blow a fus</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">e, call housing, they'd send an </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">electrician out to change the fuse for you. I mean, it was pretty amazing, really. And it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">good quality furniture.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Cool. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">So I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about growing up in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Richland in the '40s and '50s, </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">sort of what the </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">community was like at that time?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">It was a fairly small town, of course. I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and this is just my memory</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">it was about</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">probably maybe 23,000 people, was all. Something like that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And it was truly a </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Leave It t</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">o Beaver</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> era. People laugh at that, but that's exactly what it was,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">because if you stop and think about it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">in order to live in Richland, you had to work out in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">area. In order to work out in the area, you needed clearance. And it was not unusual to have</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">someone knock at the door and be an FBI agent investigating someone or something. I mean,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">it was very controlled.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And so there was no crime to speak of. Nickel and dime stuff. But there was one murder, in all</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">those years. They never did find the killer. But no, we'd play out all night and folks wouldn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">think a thing about it. That’</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">s just the way it was. And in the summertime, like I said, as hot</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">as it was, all the windows</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> and doors would be wide open and w</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ouldn't think a thing about it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And people kind of knew one another. Not that you knew everybody, but that small a town and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">everyone working out there. Everyone rode the bus, so there was a camaraderie with not only</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">where you worked but also on the buses. And people I think really did try and watch out for</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">one another. But no, growing up, it was great.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">One</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> kind of</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> fun story. We used to hooky-bob. You know what that is?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I don't.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Okay, w</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">hat we'd do in the wintertime when the roads were snowy and icy. You'd hide behind a bush,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and as a car went by</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> you ran out and grabbed the bumper and had them drag you around.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And that was a lot of fun. That was one of the winter sports.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But it was kind of interesting. I can remember, newspaper front page showed a bus with a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">glove on it. The story was, it was a hooky-bobber and his hand was wet and it froze to the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">bumper, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">make a long story short, it was on the dangers of hooky-bobbing. But it just</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">happens that the guy that that glove belonged to graduated a couple years ahead of me.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Name was Jim Crum, who is now an attorney for the US government.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But no, it was a fun time. I mea</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">n, Friday night shows </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was wall-to-wall kids. Very seldom</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was there a fight or anything. We'd hang out at the Spudnut Shop, or there was another place</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">called Tim's.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Someone that ha</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">d a car would drive around the U</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ptown area about 30 times, just looking for</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">gals or whatever. I mean, it was an </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">American Graffiti </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">time. Have you seen American Graffiti?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yes, sir.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">You see that, and every person in there</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Hey, that was so-and-so;</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> that was so-and-so. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">mean, it was so accurate to our high school days. It was a good time to grow up.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Wintertime, of course, we had Christmas tree forts, and if there was snow on the ground we'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">have snow forts and choose up sides and have snowball fights hiding behind our snow forts.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">We would, if there was no snow</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">or even if there was </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">snow after Christmas</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">build Christmas</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">tree forts. Stack them up and have a roof on it, even sleep out in it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But if a neighbor down the street</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">you know, if they had a Christmas tree fort, about one or</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">two in the morning we'd sneak down and steal all their trees. An</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">d we'd have a bigger fort then. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">We would sleep out a lot in the summertime, because it was hot. I can reme</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">mber we would </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">sleep out maybe 10 o'clock at night or so. There were still orchards, cherry orchards in town.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Up on Van Giesen. We lived just around the corner on Thayer.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">We'd get up, go down there and steal cherries. We'd steal quite a few cherries. Then the next</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">day we'd sell them house to house.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">What else was there? The buses were a big part. The buses were fun, because there was two</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">groups. They were both run by the government, but there was what they called the city local,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">which took people from point A to point B as far as downtown and uptown, different places.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Then there was the outer area buses that took workers to work and brought them home. But</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">there was two different</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">not bus companies, but groups of drivers that drove for each group.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But not only hooky-bobbing, but it was always fun to</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">as buses passed</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">snowball th</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">em, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">throw snowballs at th</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">em. Just fun things.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Some good winter sports.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Could you talk a little bit more about these</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">you mentioned Fr</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">iday night shows, and also the </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Spudnut </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Shop. Could you describe those</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> a little bit</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I mean, everyone went to them. All the kids went to them. And you know, you're talking</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the '50s, where rock and roll was just coming in. I wrote a piece one time on</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I really think that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">we were born at a nice time, because we can remember big bands, we can remember that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">type of music and how rock and roll came in.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And of course parents didn't like rock and roll at all. It was evil, and all this. But a lot of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">movies, some of the movi</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">es, had rock and roll stars.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> I can remember people</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">dancing in the aisles while the movie was on. Things like that. I can remember one gal was</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">dancing what they used to call a dirty bop. They ended up kicking her out.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> But no, there was</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">dancing and hooting and hollering.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Before the Uptown Theater opened was the Village Theater. And that was when we were</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">younger, but that's when they showed the serials, whether it be Superman or Whip Wilson or</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">whomever. But every Saturday we'd go to the show. There'd be a cartoon as well as one or</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">two double feature.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">That's back</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">we were young, but a fun thing then, I guess, was to have your popcorn boxes.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">They were boxes at the time</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">. You'd flatten them and throw th</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">em and make a shadow on the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">screen. That was the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> big deal.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But the Village Theater was so strange because it was all kids, basically. Because the Richland</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Theater, which is now The Players, was more the adults. The Village Theater was for little</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">kids. But you would walk down the aisles, and was a kind of carpeting, and you'd stick,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">stick, stick, stick. I </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">don't think they ever cleaned it. Pop spilled on it, candy bars, and everything</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">else. That was fun.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Then they did build the Uptown Theater, and that was more adult movies. But on Friday night,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">it was lot of science fiction. That's where you saw Frankenstein, Dracula, The </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">Wolfman</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">, and all</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that. Then the midnight shows had really neat</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">they'd have a midnight show, and we wouldn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">get home until three in the morning, but no big </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">deal. Y</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ou'd walk home. No big deal.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I don't know if you can do it today, but there'd be half a dozen of your friends walking home</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">with you, just having a good time.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But the Friday night shows</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I started smoking quite early. I don't smoke now. But I can</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">remember, for mowing the lawn and peeling t</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">he taters and things that, I’d get</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> $1 a week</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">allowance. And with that dollar I could buy a pack of cigarettes, which would last me a week,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">get into the show, and have like a dime left over. So I mean, a dollar, I was in fat city.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Do you remember how much a movie cost, about that time?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">First ones I can remember was $0.11 or $0.12, and then it went to $0.20. And I think during</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">my high school days, if I remember right, it was probably $0.35, something like that. I'm not</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">sure.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">All right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I'm fascinated by the Spudnut Shop and Tim's. C</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">an you describe those a little?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Well, Tim's was where Dr. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">Chavla</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> placed his</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">it's</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> kind of cadd</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">y-cornered from the graveyard,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the old graveyard. And it was a nice place. A fireplace in it and everything. That's where the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">kids hung out. And it wasn't really a pizza parlor, but it was kind of a pizza parlor sandwich</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">place.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">It was our high school days, and it closed, I'm not sure exactly when, but became Einan's</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Funeral Home. It went from the restaurant to Einan's Funeral Home. And then Einan's, of</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">course, moved out on the bypass.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But the Spudnut shop, it's bigger now than it was. It used to just be just a few booths. But I can</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">remember Spudnuts were, let's say</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">, $0.10. And for a Spudnut ala mode</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that was a Spudnut</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">with soft ice cream on it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that was $0.15. And if you had $0.15 for that, you was in pretty good</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">shape, because we didn't have money like that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And there was another place just two doors down from that that was the Fission Chips. But it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was interesting the way they spelled fission. It was fission, like nuclear. It was Fission Chips.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">You can see some old pictures of the Spudnut shop, and just a couple doors down, you'll see</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the Fission Chips. But we'd hang out in the Spudnut Shop before the movie, and then maybe</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">go there after the movie. And that's just where everyone hung out.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">When we had a car later, more in our high school years, we hung out at a place called Skip's.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">It was where Les Schwab is now. That was kind of the hangout there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I don't know if you want this on there. It's not very nice. But Skip's, there was a young girl</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">worked there with a cleft palate. One the guys that we kind of ran with, he had a cleft palate</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">also. He was about three years older than me. But he pulled in there, him and friends, and she</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">said in her cleft palate</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> way</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">, ,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ay</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> I help you? He said yeah, give me a such and such. And she got</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">mad, y</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ou don't have to </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">make fun of me!</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Because she though he was just making fun of her.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Kind of a sad story, but kind of humorous also.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">The movies was a big part of life. Of course, swimming. We used to swim in the Yakima a lot.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And the old pool, what we used to call the big pool, down in what's now Howard Amon Park</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">used to be Riverside Park</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">there was a swimming pool there. And the flood of '48, '47-'48, it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">flooded the park. And so they done away with that pool and built the present one.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">That flood was quite a deal. I can remember going</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the b</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ridge</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> was out</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">going out of</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Richland, </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">they had a pontoon bridge. And that causeway wasn't there then. It was just flat. But</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I thought that was so neat. We was going across the bridge, and you see pontoons all the way</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">across it with lumber to drive on. And that always impressed me.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Down around </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">Gowen</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> and things, I can remember the basements flooded from that flood. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">it was quite a flood. That's when they built the dam or dike around Richland and Kennewick</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and so on.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> The—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I was thinking of something else, and lost it. But no, the flood was quite an event. I worked with</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">a guy named Ralph Schafer, who had a private pilot's license, and they hired him as a bus</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">driver. But they let him go from bus driving long enough, because the only way to the airport at</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the time was to fly from Richland to Pasco. So they hired him to ferry people to the Pasco</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">airport in his private plane, because basically there was no way out of Richland</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> until they put</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that pontoon bridge in.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I wonder if you could talk about</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">obviously you went through school here. D</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">o you have any </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">memories</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">there were also some residents that were here pr</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ior to 1943, that were still in </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">school here, that were moved off of their family lands. Did yo</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">u go to school with anybody who had memories of </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that, that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> you recall?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Not to my knowledge. You hear all kinds of stories and things that I don't know. I know I've</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">heard that one family</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">or some people, I'll say</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">whe</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">n they were, quote, kicked out</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> of White</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Bluff</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">s</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Hanford area, they moved to Prosser, Sunnyside, somewhere up there, and swore they'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">never set foot in Richland. And whether that's true or not, I don't know. But I know there's hard</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">feelings over it, rightfully so.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But no, I don't know of anyone. I know we had a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> lot of construction workers in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> trailer parks in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">north Richland. There was a big trailer park, and they had an elementary school out there,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">John Ball. And once they got all the houses built that they were going to build, I guess, they</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">closed the trailer park and closed John Ball and had them all into town.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But I can remember living on Thayer, going to school at Old </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">Sacky</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Sacaj</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">awea, the Old</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">Sacky</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that for some reason, for two-three days they sent me to Spalding. I had to walk to</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">school, which was maybe three, </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">four blocks, five blocks. I can remember big piles of dirt,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">having to climb over them to get to school. And the reason for that was they were building the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ranch houses at that time. So I was probably first grade, I'm guessing.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">So they were still building in the lat</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">e </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">'40s, early '50s. In fact, Bauer</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Days and the Richland</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Village came later, after the letter houses. But school</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">no, I honestly can't remember any kids</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">there.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">No problem. We're here to get your memories, so. A bunch of </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">other things I want to ask you. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">One thing, you said your fathe</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">r worked in Hanford until '67.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">He retired.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">He retired in '67. So he was working in the area when Pres</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ident Kennedy came, in 1963. Do </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">you h</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ave any memories of that event?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">No. I was in the Navy then, so no. I know my wife said that she went out to see him. And there</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">were so many people you could hardly see him, but she went out to it. But no, I got out of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Navy in October</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> '63. I was on a train back to Denver to visit relatives.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">It's kind of sad. I was sitting in the club car playing cards with strangers, and the porter came</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">a black fella</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">says,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> [EMOTIONAL]</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> the President's been shot. And we all</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">aww, go on, he's pulling</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> our leg,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">he's joking</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">. Then I says, you don't joke about something like that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">We were somewhere around Wyoming on the train, and then they was able to get a radio</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">station over the PA or whatever it was. Sure enough, a little bit later</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that he had died. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that's how I learned of it. I'll never forget that train ride. Got to Denver, and it was just strange.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Of course. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And we're righ</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">t on the anniversary of it now.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yeah. Yeah. But my dad, I don't know if he went to see him or not. I mean, he was a dyed-in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the-wool Democrat. He came out of the Depression. He was born in '03, so he'd been through</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">a lot. I can remember him saying that he'd vote for a yellow dog before he'd vote for a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Republican. He was the old Democrat.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But he did vote for on</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">e Republican. That was John Dam</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">, who was running for county</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">commissioner. They were personal friends. He said that's the only Republican he'd ever voted</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">for.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">One exception.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">So </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">did you work at Hanford at all?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">You did. So could y</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ou start filling us in on that a little?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I worked 40 years out there. Hired on '65. And luckily </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">my dad was still working, so we </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">overlapped. We were both drivers. And I started out as a l</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">aborer, though they called them </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">servicemen</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">basically a laborer. And I got set up to bus driver. And in '61, </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">had a layoff. And I </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">could have stayed, but I thought, man, le</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">t's see what else is out there. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And I went and worked for Battelle. I was with Battelle f</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">or about 13 years in inhalation </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">toxicology. Long-term study. Plutonium, curium, americium studies on dogs. And in about '84 I</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">quit Battelle and went back to transportation, because money.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> You know that all your </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">college </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">folks know that biology is not real high-paying, unless you're </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">a PhD or something. But a BS in biology's not much. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But no, I really enjoyed that. In fact, when McCluskey's glo</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ve box blew up, about 200</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> A</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">reas </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">were exposed to</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I forget if it was curium or americium, but the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">re hadn't been a lot of studies </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">on those. And like I said, I was working in inhalation toxicolo</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">gy, and we got two or three big </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">contracts right after that to study the health effects </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">of curium and americium through inhalation. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">He was an amazing man, because I worked with </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">PhDs. Immunologists, veterinaries,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">hematologists. You name it, we had the discipline there. Pathologists. And they </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">didn't give him </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">six months to live, with what he got. And he ended up living pro</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">bably 20 years or better. It is </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">quite an amazing story. You can go on the internet and look up</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Atomic Man, and his story's in </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">there.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">We</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> actually interviewed the gentleman who was in charge </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">of the cleanup, cleaning up his hospital room.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yeah. I don't know if it was this guy I worked with, what we called a radiation monitor. Now</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">they're HPTs or something. But he was with him, scrubbing him and things. His name was</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Larry Belt. He'd be a good interview for you.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I worked with Larry for a number of years. He was our radiation monitor when we exposed</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">dogs and so on. But he said, you can't believe the pain this man was in. He said, we had to</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">literally scrub him with brushes, because he had stuff embedded in his face and so on.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Terrible. He says, submerge him and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> scrub him. No, Larry Belt could tell some stories about it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But back to my job. I quit Battelle for financial reasons and went back to driving. Drove a bus</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">for a lot of years. They shut the bus system down, and I went and worked driving a truck, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">drove ERDF trucks hau</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ling the solid waste from out around</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> the river and so on. Did that for a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">number of years and retired. I taught HAZMAT classes for the last abou</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">t ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> years.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But buses were the fun job. A lot of stories there. One of our drivers named Carl Adcock was</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">driving down Delafield, taking the day shift home</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">so </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">it was </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">about four or five in the afternoon</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">a little girl was standing out in the middle of the street playing. About five, six years old.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Stopped his bus, pulled the brake,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> got out and spanked her butt, get out of here!</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Got back in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the bus, and the passengers were just</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">what are you doing? You could get in trouble for that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And it was his daughter.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But no, we've had people have epileptic seizures on the bus. And there's all sorts of things like</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that. A lot of stories.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">You must </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">see a little bit of everything.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Oh, yeah. We had poker games, bridge games, on the buses. They had cardboard</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">tables. Four people would sit down, put</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> their table between the aisles and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> play cards. They had a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">bridge game going from 100F, which was where the animals were before they built 300</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">animal life sciences 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">rea</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">but they had a bridge game that was going steady for at least</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">30, 35 years.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I mean, it was different </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">people. You know, someone would retire, someone else would take</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">their place. But it started out at 100F at lunch break and then on the bus, and it continued.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">When we were at 300 they were still playing. Again, it was different players, but it was the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">same game.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Wow. There's something I wanted to ask you</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> about</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">. Returning back to when you worked in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">inhalation toxicology at Battelle, did you work with the smoking beagles?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yes. That was my first job, was smoking.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">We just interviewed Vanis Daniels--</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Oh, yeah. I know Vanis.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--last week, who worked with the smoking beagles. Can you describe for us the process of</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">getting the beagles to smoke two packs a day?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Well, the hard part's lighting '</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">em</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">. No, the reason for the study</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> as I understood it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> was uranium</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">miners were dying early, and they wanted to know why. Because it could be cigarette smoke--because most of them were smokers</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">uranium ore dust or it could be radon daughters.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And so we had a group of</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I forget now. 70 dogs, 60. Something like that. And 10 of would</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">receive smoke only, cigarette smoke only. They had a table, kind of a horseshoe. The mask fit</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">over their muzzle with a cigarette in there, and like every seventh or tenth breath</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> a little gadget</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">would open and their breath would suck in the smoke.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But then ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> of them would receive uranium ore dust and radon daughters. There was a large</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">chamber that held ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> dogs around it, and up in the top there was a grinder thing that would</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">grind the ore dust and sprinkle it down in. I mean, it wasn't noticeable, it wasn't thick, but it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">in there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And then we</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> had radon. I think it was water bubbled through it that would give the radon gas,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and it would get into the cha</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">mber. And then we had another ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> that would receive cig</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">arette</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and the radon.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And then a control group that didn't receive anything. They were called sham. You'd bring</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">them in, go through all the same routine, but they wouldn't receive anything. And just see what</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the effects were.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And it was a lifespan study, so you'd look at the dosage and how long they lived and what</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">affected them the most. So that's basically what it was.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">One story I heard</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">probably true</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was that the Russians said that our limits were too high,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">should be lower. So that maybe prompted it, I don't know. Then after that when we got to 300</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">A</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">rea, 100</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">-F moved into 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">rea, and they closed 100</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">F down. And then they had a group of</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">just smoking dogs.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And it was more difficult in the sense that we had a mask that fit over their muzzle, and they</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">could trick it. They could breathe o</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ut of the side of their mouth. When they did it at</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> one area they </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">trached</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> them,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and there was no cheating that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">. It was direct. There was no getting around that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I learned a lot. I mean, that was one of the most exciting jobs. And the learning curve was just</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">like that. I really learned a lot about physiology and biology and chemistry. You work there that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">long, and you learn a lot.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Because part of my job was necropsy</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">or what they call autopsy, but </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">necropsing</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> the dogs.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And we always said we took everything but the bark. I mean we literally disarticulated them</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and took every piece that they had. Every organ, every bone, separated it. The reason for that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">we wanted to know where the plutonium or curium or whatever went to in the body.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Where was the body burden? Was it in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> the lungs, was it in the bones?</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And interestingly enough, we exposed Pu-238 and 239, and the 238 would be a bone-seeker.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">The bones would have high doses. But in 239, the bones hardly got anything. It was all soft</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">tissue. So they learned a lot from that, as far as where these elements</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">what they seek. The</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">target organs, if you will. I don't know if all that should go in this.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Fascinating. I really love hearing about it. Could you talk a little bit about</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">obviously, during</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">those times, security and secrecy was still very much a part of working at Hanford. Did that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> impact</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> your work at all?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Oh, a lot. You know, being raised</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">from my oldest memories, it was secure.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And I can remember when I was probably about 10, 11, 12 years old I went in for a library</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">card here in Richland. They asked who my dad worked for, and I was scared to tell them.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Because the security</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">my dad never told me what was going on out there. And I knew security</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was a big deal. And I says, I don't kno</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">w. I kind of knew, but I--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And she says, well, what does he do?</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And I says, well, he drives. So then she wrote down General Electric.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But no, I mean, it was paramount </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">even as a kid. I can remember—and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> this </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">is </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">kind of funny</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">hindsight</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">but kind of put yourself in that t</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">imeframe--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I can remember calling my brother who</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was seven, eight, nine years old</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">would have been in the early '50s, McCarthy era</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I can</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">remember calling my brother a dirty communist. And my dad just came unglued. He would</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">rather have me call him S.O.B. than that, because that wasn't something you messed with in</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the early '50s, with</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> the FBI and everything else.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But I mean, security was bred into you, I guess. And when I hired on, it was still, but not like it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was. But many of us still had that same mentality. I can remember when they started releasing</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">things to the public. That always bothered me, because this is secure, and people don't have</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the need to know a lot of this stuff.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Security was a big deal. I mean, you didn't go anyplace without a security badge. They could</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">stop you, search your car, and everything else. So it was a high priority.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">There was seclusion areas within the area. You might get out in the area, but you might not be</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ab</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">le to get into a certain area. When you</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> got in that area, you couldn't get into another area, like</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">dash-5 or Z-Plant or </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">RE</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">DOX or PUREX</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">. You needed extra security on your badge to get in these</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">places. So security was very tough.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Could you talk a little bit about how Hanford was overall as a place to work? Anything you</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">found particularly challenging or very rewarding about your time in the area?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I think it was great. You know, let's face it,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> was great for a lot of people that worked here. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">mean, good pay—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">relatively good pay, and a lot of people raised their families and sent them to</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">school on this pay out here. And as far as working out there, we really had fun in the early</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">days.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And by the early days, I mean when I hired on. Because I felt very lucky that when I hired on,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">most of the old-timers were still working. And by old-timers I mean them that hired in the '40s.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">So a lot of the stories, a lot of things that they knew and interesting things that they talked</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">about, I was privy to. And that was great.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And it was, to me, really a fun place to work. I really enjoyed it. Later I can remember saying</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">more</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> than once in the '80s or '90s</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">, this isn't fun like it used to be. And it wasn't. But</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">you know, I was younger then, and that made a difference. I was about 21, 22 when I hired</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">on. And so times changed.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I think in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">early days</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">by that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> my early days</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">there was what we call maybe some dead</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">wood. And they might have five people to do a job for two people. But I mean, it was good, it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was job security. Well, then came the cuts and so on.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I think that made it a little </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">different, because</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">one thing that's bothered me over the years,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">there's been layoffs. But you can check the records. Many times after these layoffs, within six</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">months they're calling them back, because work has to be done. We might cut 500 people, but</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that job is still there, so they called a portion of them back. Which</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> to me</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> doesn't make sense.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But I don't think there's the fat out there that there was at one time.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Is there anything I haven't asked you about that you'd like to talk about? Any other stories that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">stand out?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I think the racial thing was a big story in the early days because there wasn't that many black</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">people working out there. And I can remember us</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I mentioned earlier that Richland didn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">have hardly any blacks. We had one black I'm aware of. He was a shoeshine guy at the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"><span class="SpellingError SCX237872738">Ganzel's</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> barbershop. His picture is still in there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But I can remember</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I must</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> have</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> been six, seven years old</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I saw my first black person. I was in a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">car downtown with my mom. And I saw him, and I just saw his hands and face. And I can</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">remember wondering, I wond</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">er if his whole body is that way—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">we just didn't see them.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">We had two black guys in high </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">school. C.W. and Norris Brown, who was t</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">errific basketball players. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the main reason their family moved was because of those two boys. It was a different time</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">then.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I don't know it should go on record, because I don't know if it's true or not, but talking about</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">the early people that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> worked there, one of the stories that I heard</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and like I say, whether it's</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">true, I have no idea. But they were out working, and they had a burn barrel. It was very cold. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">barrel full of wood and so on, a burn barrel. The construction workers were huddled around it,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and this one colored individual this kind of bulled his way in. He wanted to get up to the front.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And the story goes</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">whether, again, true or not</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> I don't know</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">a carpenter took his hammer</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and ended it. And that wouldn't surprise me, though I don't know if it's true or not. Because</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">there was prejudice. A lot of the people that came here were from the South, and it was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">different lifestyle. I know that they had separate camps for the blacks and the whites. And it</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was segregated.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">So I can remember when I was driving the bus here, we only had</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">to my recollection</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">one</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">black in all of transportation. There may have been more, but I think only one. And it wasn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">until probably '63 or '64 that they really started recruiting blacks.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I understand there were labor organizers and people who came in with the NAACP and that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">sort of thing to sort of assess conditions, which would have been about the time you were</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">working in the 100 and 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">reas. Do you have any recollections of that?</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Well, the one black that I told you about was a service</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">man—l</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">abor. Same group I was in. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">he was the head of the local NAACP. His name was McGee. And the way you became a driver</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was seniority. In other words, if this driver retired and you were next in seniority, you'd get that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">job.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Well, he was the next one up, as a laborer, for a driving job. They wouldn't give it to him, for</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">obvious reasons. Well, he fought it through the NAACP and he ended up becoming a driver.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But they was not going to give him that job because of his race.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Battelle, to their credit, </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> the first ones to make an overt effort to hire black people. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that's where</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">gentlema</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">n you mentioned earlier. And Battelle had</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">not overwhelming, but a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">number of blacks working for them. And in inhalation toxicology we had a number in animal</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">care as well as in the crafts. So I would say from '63 on, it started changing.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">So this is</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> kind of my last question</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">we'll have students accessing these interviews. Most of my</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">students now are too young to have remembered the Cold War. It's sort of an older--</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">So maybe if you could just talk a little bit about what it was like being part of this Cold War</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">effort, and what you'd like students or future generations to know about contributions to that</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">process.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Yeah. </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I know there's different views on this, but I feel very strongly about</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">because I knew a lot of</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">GIs from that time frame—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">had two uncles that were in the war. And you know, the atomic</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">bombs, and we made the plutonium here for the bomb, literally ended the war.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> am a firm believer</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">had we had to invade, there'd been hundreds of thousands on</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">both sides killed. And they talk about the badness, rightfully so, of the atomic bomb. But you</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">look at the conventional bombing of Germany, and it was as bad or worse as the atomic</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">bombs. The firebombing of Tokyo. Things like that. So as bad as the atomic bomb was, it did</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">end the war. You'd had to live through it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Now, as far as the Cold War goes, you know</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> the place wasn't supposed to last much more</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">than ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> years. And that's what everyone thought. Well, then the Russians got the bomb. That</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">changed things a little bit.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And it was scary. I mean, like I said </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">earlier, me calling my brother</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> communist. I wasn't old</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">enough to really realize what was going on, but I can remember</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">would've been during the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Korean War</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">my dad came to my brother and I and said, I want to know where you guys are</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">all the time, because we might have </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">to leave town in a hurry. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">hat was the mentality of</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">that time.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">We had air-raid sirens throughout the town. I can remember every</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I believe it was Monday at</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ten</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> o'clock, they would go off to test. But there was one right behind Jason Lee, where I was</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">going at the time, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> it was loud. Every</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I think </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">it was Monday or Tuesday, at ten </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">o'clock</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">they'd go off. Because we literally were on standby. We didn't know what was going to happen.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And the Korean War and then the McCarthy era, it was a scary time for adults. You know, as a</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">kid, you didn't notice it, other than watching others. But I think Hanford had a lot to do with</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ending the war.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Which ushered in the Cold War, because of the </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">proliferation</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> of the weapons. And you have to</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">give credit to whomever for tearing down the wall, for bringing somewhat of a peace in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">world—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I say somewhat.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I think it was our spending billions of dollars building up our</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">you know the old saying, peace</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">through streng</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">th. That's what Reagan did. H</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">e was a big spender, but he got the job</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">done.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">But Hanford was unique, because I can still remember there was anti-aircraft placements out</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">there. When I hired on, all the old track houses were still there. I worked on a fuel truck, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">we </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">would fuel here and there and then we'd go out into the desert area, if you will, and look</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">at these old houses that were still standing. And the old icehouse was still there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">And a lot of these buildings were still there in the '60s. And why they had the need to tear them</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">all down, I don't know. I think it was a shame. But they tore them all down other than the bank</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">and the school. I believe about all that's left.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">N</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">o, it was a different time. Like I say, I can still remember my dad telling us both, I want to</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">know where you are in case we have to leave town. I mentioned earlier, the FBI</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">it was not</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">unusual to have an FBI agent knock at the door and talk to my folks about so-and-so. We had</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">neighbors that lived in the same house</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">—i</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">n our A house, our neighbors there</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">was there one day and gone the next. It wasn't unusual to</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">you're out of here.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> Certainly a different time.</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">I want to thank you so much for coming in and sharing your memories with us. I really</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">appreciate it. We'll film all these good</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">ies you brought us, if that's okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Peters</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">:</span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Yep.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX237872738"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">Arata</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX237872738">--before we have to go.</span><span class="EOP SCX237872738"> </span></p>
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Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:57:05
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
194 kbps
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
Reduction-Oxidation Plant (REDOX)
Plutonium Uranium Extraction Plant (PUREX
100 Area
200 Area
300 Area
100 F Area
Z Plant
Dash 5 Plant
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1945-2013
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1965-2005
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Belt, Larry
Daniels, Vanis
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Leonard Peters
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Leonard Peters conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
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Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date Modified
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2016-06-21: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
11/19/2013
Rights
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Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
100 Area
100 F Area
200 Area
300 Area
Dash 5 Plant
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963
Kennewick (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Richland (Wash.)
swimming
Z Plant
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fecc318de874e02165a0adba276148544.jpg
1a405e5eb93d81a0c044840814841635
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F3bab96a36faefb5efcaa973b0a007927.mp4
9752103e397f6c9c4671a80e6c1c1324
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Franklin</span>: Okay. My name is Robert Franklin, and I am conducting an interview with Linda Davis on May 26</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX253515545">th</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> 2016. The interview is being conducted on the campus of Washington State University, Tri-Cities. I will be talking to Linda Davis about her e</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">x</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">periences growing up in Richland, and her father’s experiences coming to work on the Hanford site. So, Linda, let’s start at the beginning. Why don’t you—you were mentioning earlier, with some of those items you brought which we’ll view later—you were showing us pictures of growing up and your father’s photo when he came here. So I guess why don’t we start with your father coming here.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Linda Davis</span>: My dad had b</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">een working in Kansas on I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> it was a CCC project. And it came to an end. And they were told very little. Go to Washington. They’re like, right. [LAUGHTER] But my parents had always wanted to get the heck out of Kansas, so they found that this was their escape. And it was during the Depression, so jobs were tough. My dad came out. He was supposed to be coming out with a bunch of friends, and my brother got sick, so he ended up coming out later. He had to—he hopped box cars to get here! [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow!</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: He rode the rails and hitchhiked. And he got here a</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> few weeks after his friends—a </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">couple weeks after his friends did. They all got the management positions, and he got to be Joe Blow. [LAUGHTER] But he came out in February, March of ’43. He had been working cement. They sent him out with some other guys. They drove all over the whole reservation looking for the right rocks and gravel and sand to make the cement to start pouring B Reactor footings. After he did that, he was there when they poured the footings and that was always one of his—he was always very proud that he was there when they did the footings. Briefly, he was sent over to the extrusion and he was one of the first ones to actually run the machine to extrude the plutonium. Then after a short term there, he went back to B Reactor and became a nuclear operator until he retired.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And he was first here in a tent.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: They supplied these big tents with a stove in the corner. And he says those really weren’t that bad. Then they, quote, moved him to barracks. And he says, those were the pits. They had gaps in the wood. There was just one layer of wood and gaps. So you learned really early on—you woke up in the morning, you shook your head, you wiped your eyes off, because you’re either removing snow or sand. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> And he says when he got here off the train, he says, there was as many people getting on the train to leave. And he says, the sands would come in and people were missing their families, and they were leaving in droves. My mom and the kids did not come until fall of ’43. There was no housing at that </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">point in time. They went and lived in Yakima and my mom got a job and dad would commute on his long changes to Yakima to go visit the family. The rest of the time, he’d go stay in the barracks. And when he first got here with some of his friends, they had long lines for the shower</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">s. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">hey were like, oh, we don’t want to wait in these stupid shower lines, we’re in a hurry. So him and his friends went—they’re from Kansas, streams there are shallow and warm. The</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">y went, the</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">re’s this great big river, so they ran down and jumped in the river. And jumped right back out! [LAUGHTER] He said it was so cold! They went and stood in line after that.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: That’s a great story.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And my dad played poker and he was well known </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">for his poker playing</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> here. We thought he</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> used to—</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">was just bragging</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> until</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> when</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> he died and </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">people were coming in and they were going, wow, was he one wicked poker player. They used to be able to play poker on the buses.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Really?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, you know, an hour ride, they had these little tables they’d se</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">t up towards the back and they</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> play</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">ed</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> poker.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: He could earn almost as much money playing poker as he could </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">working</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow, that’s great. So how long was it before your mother and—so you weren’t born yet at the time.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: No! [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So how long was it before your mother and the rest of your family were able to move to the Tri-Cities?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: They stayed in Yakima for about a year and a half. And then they moved—their first house was </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span class="SpellingError SCX253515545">A</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> house on MacPherson, which was just finished and they ended up having to go to a hotel the first night, becau</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">se it was freshly painted, and i</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">t made them all sick because it was still wet. [LAUGHTER] They were kind of unusual because they had their own furniture that they had brought from Kansas. Most people came and they had—everybody had the same bed, dresser, everything was supplied. But they had a lot of their own furniture that they brought from Kansas. So they would have been here—let’s see, he came out in ’43, ’44—early ’45 is </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">when they got their first house--</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: --i</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">n the Tri-Cities. During that time, Dad had commuted back and forth.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow. And you said that your mom was working in Yakima. What kind of work was she doing?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: She was a receptionist in a doctor’s office.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: She was telling me—</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">oh, just a few years ago, she was telling me that she was working, and people had been displaced and all the, quote, riffraff was coming in, and people looked really down on the </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">people like them who were coming in. She was working in a doctor’s office, so nobody really thought about it, so they were a lot of times just tal</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">king, and some ladies got real</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> snippy about, well, you got all this riffraff coming in and these </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">lowlifes</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> and stuff. And she just looked up and said, oh, well I’m one of those. [LAUGHTER] But they were really looked down on, because people didn’t know why they had been displaced. And they didn’t know why all these people were coming from all over the country.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right, because they</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> hadn’t</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Nobody was allowed to know anything. So there was a lot of anger, and a lot of looking down their noses at people that had come into the Hanford Project.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Do you think maybe some clas</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">s conflict? Or maybe people they had</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> perceived as Dust Bowl type people--?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Dust Bowl type people, because a lot of them came—Kansas, Oklahoma supplied a lot of the workers out here, because the word had gotten around, go to Washington, go to Washin</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">gton. They didn’t know why, </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">just go to Washington, you’ll find a job. You’ve got crummy farming, a lot of them just packed up and left. And they showed up. Then the, quote, natives of the area who</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> had</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> felt that they had been here for a significant amount of time really did look down on</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> all these strangers coming in.</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> It was—they would look like refugees to them. Because a lot of them came with homemade trailers and, literally their own tents if they couldn’t find a place to live.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And they hopped boxcars.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And they hopped boxcars to get here! [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow, that’s really interesting. So, earlier you mentioned that your family had lived in a lot of different houses early on or kind of gone all over. So can you talk about that? Those early years of being in Richland.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: You were assigned houses by what kind of job you had and how many children you had. You could</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> apply to get a different house. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">nd for all sorts of different reasons—my mother liked to move, I think, because a lot of it—she always liked to move. And Dad went along with it. They lived in ranch houses, F houses, </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">A</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> houses—they sneakily got into an H house, which they didn’t qualify for. You couldn’t—weren’t supposed to get into any housing unless it’s written out by the government that you could. They traded with somebody who wanted something—they wanted like the A house. They were in an H house and Mom and Dad said, oh, we’d like the H.</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> So they traded without telling the government.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Ooh.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: That lasted six months</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> [LAUGHTER] Then t</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">hey had to move again. [LAUGHTER</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So the H houses were bigger then? I’m not quite up on </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">all of </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">the—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: They have a </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">basement;</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> they have one floor. They were probably better made. They were nicer houses than like the A. But the one people were having more kids or something. I can’t remember why they wanted to change. But Mom and Dad sneakily did it, then</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> they sneakily had to slink out [LAUGHTER] w</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">hen they were told they had to leave.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow. Yeah, one thing I’ve heard around here is that basements in those early years were pr</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">e</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">tty rare.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: What basements you had, like in the A houses, B houses, F houses, they were dirt. I’ve been in them when they hadn’t been changed yet. It’s basically a dirt floor, you walk down the stairs and then you’re there. Then there’s like this raised cement block area. Well, that’s where they’d dump the coal into. They would come with these trucks and dump the coal in. You just had enough room to go down there and shovel coal. They were pretty gross. [LAUGHTER] But I remember Mom and Dad, though, said everything was supplied. You had no utilities, they brought your coal—you had to call and ask for a lightbulb to be changed. You were not allowed to do it yourself. [LAUGHTER] Totally government.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah, that’s a lot like here. You have to put in a facilities request to do that.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, well,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> they had to—</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">she goes, a lightbulb? Like, we can’t change your own? Oh, no. But she says they were really Johnny-on-the-spot.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Really?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah. They’d call and say, you know, lightbulb in the bathroom burned out. Oh! We’ll be right there!</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow, so it would have been a whole department of people.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: There was a whole depart</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">ment of people who were doing that</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">. If you were not working at Hanford or what they called support, like supplying the oil and changing the lightbulbs, a grocery store, pharmacist or something, you were not allowed to live here.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And if you were, like, married and your husband—one of their friends</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> that happened—</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">drop</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">ped dead of a heart attack,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> she was given 48 hours to leave with her kids. They were kind of severe at times. But it was super safe. Kids could run and play. If your kid got in trouble, you could lose your job. That was—I remember my dad always holding that over my brothers. [LAUGHTER] If you get in trouble, I can lose my job and we’ll have to leave.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: So kids were g</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">ood;</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> they didn’t have a choice. If you had a kid who became a juvenile delinquent, then you could lose your job and given 24 hours to leave town.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Did you know of any incidences of that happening?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: My parents talked about it, but I didn’t have names or—you know. Just somebody that they knew, their </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">kids had been a real pain—and he</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> ended up </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">I think </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">keeping his job, but he had to move to Kennewick. He couldn’t stay in government. He managed to beg and plead and keep his job, but he had to leave town.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So they were not only kind of controlled the work site, but they also really controlled the fabric of the community as well.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: To the point where they had—after leaving Richland, and living elsewhe</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">re and now in Kennewick,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> you realize the layers are like military layers. And it’s taken a long time for that to kind of break down. You had your echelons, just like in the military. They even went so far as to tell people, you are in this job and you’re in this job, and you’re not supposed to communicate. They may have grown up together in some Podunk place in the Midwest, known each other since childhood, but, </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">all of the sudden, </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">oh, you’re not supposed to talk to each other? [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right, so kind of like that difference between commissioned officers—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And a non-com.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Non-com.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Yeah. Oh, you’re more of a commissioned, you’re too high up and you can’t talk to the lower echelon.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> scientists</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> don’t talk to janitors and so forth.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: That’s really interesting. Did your mom work after—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yes, she worked at Dr. </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span class="SpellingError SCX253515545">Ellner’s</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> office, urologist here in town. She worked there for—I don’t know—from the time I was about nine, eight—I guess I was about eight when she started working there. So that would have been ’62.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay. And so then you would be born in ’54.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Mm-hmm.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: ’54. Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Part of that big baby boom.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah. And how many siblings do you have?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Three.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay. And were any of them—did any of them move to Richland from—so your parents came, your father came out in ’43, and then your family came out in the fall. When were your siblings born?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: They were born all in Kansas.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And so they were born in ’37, ’40, and ’41.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So you’re the real baby of the bunch.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Oh, yeah. I was the surprise. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> Ah.</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> I think we all are in some way.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Oh, I was—my mom was 41, so yeah, I was a shock.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> yeah,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> that is quite a surprise. So tell me—then you would have been born then when Richland was still a government town.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So tell me about growing up, like maybe from your earliest memories on. What was it like to—do you have any early memories of before—while Richland was still a government town?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, I have a lot of memories from really early. My brother and I seem to both have the brains from early, early. The other two go, I don’t remember anything then. [LAUGHTER] They don’t really remember anything until after they’re five! One of the things that always struck me was, as a kid, driving through town and they had that asbestos siding</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> that you had a green house or this</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> dark reddish house. They all kind of looked the same. I know my sister one time accidentally ended up in the wrong house after school. And one of Mom’s best friends came in and found some guy sleeping in her bed. He was on leave from the Army and he had gotten in the wrong house. But they all looked the same. And people had the same furniture.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: So my sister went in and says, like, the living room furniture, I think, was all the same. And she says, she came home, put her papers down and then went out and played. Then came back later and went, Mom keeps moving the furniture! [LAUGHTER] She says she has no idea which house she went into.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, they had basically—I remember the green and the red. There might have been—and then there was some blue. And then they had like a cream color with </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">them. So like the A houses would</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> have been light colored on the top and then the red on the bottom. Or cream and—there was like three choices. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right. It’s like the Model T. You can get it in black or black.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Right. Yeah, this was—and you didn’t</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> have a choice what color it was. And I guess when they first moved in, besides the paint being wet, they literally handed them a ten-pound bag of grass seed and said, plant your yard! Have fun! [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow. That’s great. So, how about any memories that stand out from your early childhood or early life in Richland? I remember, earlier you mentioned that before we started taping, that your family had bought one of the first commercially available houses.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Spec home.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Spec home. What year was that?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: 1960.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay, so you would have been about six years old then.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Dav</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">is</span>: Right. That was just before</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> I was six, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And what was that like, to be in one of these?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: You—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: New, new, new homes.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Because of the class thing going on, I was not considered—and then shortly after they started building this North Richland area—I always felt like I didn’t fit in. I didn’t fit in with the kids in the, quote, government houses.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> My house was basically a ranch house. We had hardwood floors instead of tiles. And we had a one-car garage, ooh, </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span class="SpellingError SCX253515545">ahh</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">. [LAUGHTER] But it really wasn’t—it was just a three-bedroom ranch. One bathroom and a one-car garage. And then all the scientists and the people making more money and the doctors started building into North Richland. And I didn’t fit in with them</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">, either, because they went</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">, oh, you’re in that little house.</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> It was kind of like feeling like you didn’t fit in anywhere. Because I wasn’t in a government house, and a lot of the government houses were way bigger than the house we were in.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Huh.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: But I remember saying—one of the first memories in that house was—they’d move</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">d</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> us in—oh, they’d never allow it nowadays. Moved us in, we had no water. S</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">o the firemen came and hooked</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> up to a fire hydrant about a block and a half away. [LAUGHTER] A</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">nd then it ran into a garden ho</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">se, and it was Febr</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">uary, and like below zero. So you</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> always had to have water running in the bathtub to keep the little garden house. And if froze up, all the neighbors would come out and jump up and down on it, breaking the ice up. But nowadays you wouldn’t be able to move into a house without full running water.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right, right. Wow. That’s fabulous.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And then when we were first there—we were the very first ones sold. The others were having open houses. And we’d be sitting there having like a family get-together, and people start walking in our house. Oh, this one’s not open! No. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And then that of course touched off a boom, though, right, in house construction in Richland.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Davi</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">s</span>: Right. North Richland, I remember</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> we used to sit at our kitchen table and look out and watch all the houses going up, and here are all the—for years, you could see new houses and hear hammering every morning. North Richland just really took off because everybody started building their own.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: A lot of people went ahead and bought their original house from the government, but my parents—I don’t know, they fell—my dad fell in love with this house. My mother hated it. [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: How long did they live at that house?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: We lived there 13 years.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay. So they really do like to move around a lot.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: That’s like mom’s record, yeah. Her last move was with us and she had to live wi</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">th us ten years without moving before </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">she died. [LAUGHTER] But generally, about—when my siblings were growing up, they got used to moving every six months to a year and a half. And they went to every single school in Richland.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow. Well, I guess they know a pretty big cross-section of the community, then.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: They were always—when you talk to different people, they’re like, oh yeah, so-and-so,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> and I go,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> oh yeah, my parents were their neighbors. And somebody else would say, oh yeah, they were their neighbors, too. Like </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span class="SpellingError SCX253515545">Garmo</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> who owned one of the grocery stores. All these different people, they were their neighbors at some point in time. Probably Johnson, who was the photographer for the area. He was a good friend and I’m still in recent contact with his daughter. </span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: But pretty much, if you lived in Richland for any length of time</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">, my parents were your neighbor</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> at some point. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: That’s great. So when did your father retire from Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: I was married, so—when did he retire? I got married in ’74, so I’m trying to remember exactly. ’75 or ’76, something like that.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, wow, so he was on—did he have any gaps in employment, or did he work onsite since 1943?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: He worked onsite that whole time.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow, and so what did—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Except for the six-week strike they had. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, well tell me about that.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: I don’t even remember what it was about. I was in junior high. They had a strike which my dad was not in favor of, but he wouldn’t break union line. So he was on strike. During that time, he says, oh well, I’ll make the best of it, so he built a family room onto our house. [LAUGHTER] And got hooked on soap operas.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: He used to make fun of Mom wanting to watch her soap opera, and then </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">when he went back to work, </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">he’d come home from work and go, what happened with—[LAUGHTER] But they were only on strike for like six weeks.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And do you remember what the strike was about at all?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: I don’t remember what it was about. Like I say, it was in junior high. It was—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Do you think you can give me kind of a date range so we could try to find something</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> about that</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: That would have been in the late ‘60s? Somewhere in—yeah. It wasn’t a very long strike, but it was the first one that I know of that they had. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">F</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">ranklin</span>: Was that site wide, do</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> you remember?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, it was site wide. I wish I remembered what it was, but in junior high you don’t pay attention to stuff like that. Yeah, Dad</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">’s</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> on strike, well, so is everybody</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> else’s dad, so—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: All you know is that he’s camped out on the couch watching soap operas.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: No, he was busy building the family room.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> He literally put a whole</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> addition</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> on the back of the house. So that’s what he was doing during his six weeks.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Still worked. So you mentioned that he had been kind of a construction guy and then had worked at the separation plant,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> right,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> and then worked in the B Reactor. So what other jobs did he have?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: He went from B Reactor, when they closed it down, then he went to K. And then</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> he</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> kept saying, oh, I sure hope they don’t ever send me to N. That’s where he ended up. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: He was always—he liked his B Reactor. Just the way the others were set up and they were different, he liked his B Reactor. </span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: He got comfortable—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">But he ended up at N Reactor anyway. That’s where he retired from.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, wow. And what did he do at—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: He was a reactor operator. He was—yeah, from after construction, he was a reactor operator.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So it seems like a really big career jump, from construction to—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, but they didn’t—nobody knew what they were doing exactly.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: So it’s learn-as-you-go. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah, I bet.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: My dad—I remember him—it was really neat to go on the B Reactor tour, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">ecause it was probably the 70s before he ever even talked about what it looked </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">like</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> or anything. I never knew what it looked like. But he started—in the 70s was able to start feeling comfortable—I mean, it wasn’t classified or anything then. But the guys had just been used to not talking about it.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Well, yeah, I mean secrecy.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: But he started describing the panels and stuff. And there was this office behind him, and he says—during World War II—he says, the crazy Italian in the silk suits sat back there. And then he’d go get crapped up, is when they’d get contaminated and they’d have to take his silk suits away and burn them. I didn’t realize it until after Dad was gone, when he was talking about the crazy Italian in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">silk</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> suits, that was Fermi.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Sitting behind my dad! [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow, that’s amazing.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> But he never said his name. He never said his name. Just the crazy Italian in the silk suits.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: But, of course he probably would have known his name.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Oh, during World War II, they didn’t.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> So that’s how—I think they just referred to him as the crazy Italians with the silk suits. Because they literally did not know their names. He was the guy who sat back there, and he’d go into places they weren’t allowed to go to. And he wasn’t really supposed to, but he’d go in and tinker. Then they’d check him for radiation and go, eh, those clothes—</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">I remember, </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">one of my ea</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">r</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">ly memorie</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">s is being in grade school and </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">m</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">y</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> dad getting off the bus, because everybody rode the buses to work. They were just like clockwork and super on—I mean super on time. And I remember coming out of the house, and my dad’s getting off the bus in the afternoon and—I guess I was heading to school. He’s coming down—my dad was only five-foot-six. And he’s got a pair of pants that he’s holding up around his armpits, and a shirt that’s probably was past his knees rolled up to his—and clomping along in these shoes that don’t fit. He had gotten crapped up at work.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And he ended up—one of his friends who was like six-foot-six had some extra clothes. [LAUGHTER] Yeah, he’s like, you know, when you get your clothes crapped up, you lose your clothes.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Even your underwear. [LAUGHTER] So he’s coming home with—[LAUGHTER] I still remember—luckily we only lived like a half block from where the bus dropped him off. But I thought, that had to be a little uncomfortable at work, walking around like that.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah, no kidding.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Trying</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> to hold these. Yeah, Trawler, he was </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">six-five, six-six. </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">He was a tall guy, skinny. But D</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">ad was only five-foot-six. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow, that’s a great story. So there’s some—</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">a couple of</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> the big events that we always ask people about and one of them is Kennedy’s visit to the N Reactor in 1963. Did you—were you—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Both my parents were working.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: They were both working, so—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: [LAUGHTER] I didn’t</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> have any way to get there. I wanted to go, but my parents, oh,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> it’s going to</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> be a big crowd. They didn’t like crowds.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: So, yeah, I didn’t get to go. They were both working. So I heard about it from my friends</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Your friends who went?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, I had friends who went.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Awesome.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And they still remember it, and I’m going, oh, I didn’t get to go. </span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Ah, you were busy. So any other major—</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">any other </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">big events that kind of stick out at you in Richland, growing up in Richland or maybe even a little later?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Ah, let’s see, what were the events?</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> They always had their fire parade, their fire prevention parades. That was when you were a kid and you got to decorate your bike and ride down the road.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: G Way, and they had—when I was really little, there was like Frontier Days or some other parade that we had. And then one of the big thrills was in the spring, they would bring in, quote, well</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> we’d call them travel trailers now, but they were the early mobile homes that were like eight-foot-wide and 12 feet long. And they’d set them up in the Uptown Richland parking lot. You’d go look through them and go, oh, aren’t these cool. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: They brought them up for sale?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, you know how they do car shows now in parking lots? Well, they’d bring these little mobile—[LAUGHTER] little dinky mobile homes. Which now</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">adays</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">, I </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">says</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">, my fifth wheel’s bigger</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> than these, quote, homes that you’re supposed to live in. </span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: I could</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> imagine for some of the people who had been here in the early days that those might have given</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> them some flashbacks to the trailer camps or—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, my parents didn’t live in the trailer camps, but they had a lot of friends who did. And one of my best friends, her parents had built—they had no place to live, so they built</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> their own trailer and lived down</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> at the Y. It was a homemade, and it was really little with three kids. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow. That’s amazing. So did you end up staying in Richland, then—did you ever move out of the Tri-Cities?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: We went to the Chicago area, and we were gone—I didn’t leave until I got married.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: My husband went to Pullman for a year and then we went to Chicago. We were gone about nine years and then came back and raised our kids here.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, okay. And so what brought you back to the—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Family. My parents were here, my dad’s health was failing, and I had just lost my father-in-law. So we kind of wanted the kids to get the chance to know their grandparents, because my husband’s parents were both gone. So, family. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And good memories of being growing up here.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Sure, sure.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Versus Chicago. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> what would you—is there anything you would like future generations to know about growing up—like kind of the experience growing up in Richland, or what it would have been like to be so close to Hanford? To help them understand what that would be like.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: G</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">rowing up with my dad, the guys </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">and women who worked out there, they were proud of what they did. Yes, bombs, they all agreed, the bomb is nasty. But in the long run it probably saved millions of lives on both sides. Because Japan was willing to fight ‘til the last man</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> which would have been millions of more lives lost. And if they would have gotten the bomb first, we’d be speaking Japanese. [LAUGHTER] I think there’s an overall pride—and my husband and I were just talking abo</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">ut this last year, that </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">what was accomplished at Hanford would never be able to be done today. Back then, the old—they had all the signs, loose lips sink ships. My husband says, well, it’d be</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">en</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> sunk long—they couldn’t have even gotten the first thing done before it would have been out in the open. Nowadays I don’t think they could pull it off. And people knew they weren’t sup</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">posed to talk about it. My dad—</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">my mom said when they were living in Yakima, my dad</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">, he had read about the reactor—</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">splitting the atom in the Collier’s magazine before the war. They were going to go get the magazine and look it up. They never got around to it. Found out if you asked about that magazine, you were fired. </span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: So they learned not to say anything. They handed some uranium around and my dad by the weight, he said, it wasn’t very big but he knew by the weight what it was. And he started to say something, and his boss says, don’t. And later he says if you would’ve said it, I would’ve had to</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> have</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> fire</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">d</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> you on the spot. I mean, you just knew that if you said anything—so he whispered it to my mom one night, under—they were sure that there were microphones everywhere. So even though they were living in Yakima, he would put a pil</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">low over them. And he says, I think we’re making the bomb.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Really?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And my mom kind of</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> went, </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span class="SpellingError SCX253515545">pfft</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">. Sure you are. [LAUGHTER] And then my mom didn’t know—said they didn’t really know what it was until my brother came home from school and all the kids and everybody was going, we dropped the bomb, we dropped the bomb.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: But I think there’s a pride in what they did. It was very secretive and when you realize that everybody was doing their little part, and they didn’t know what the other parts were. I mean, it’d be like trying to tell somebody to put a car together. Here, you have this screw, put it somewhere—and only that one. And you don’t really know what’s going on. It was really amazing what they pulled off.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And I think they—all the men and women who worked out there were really proud of what they did. And I think it went on to their families to feel proud of what they did. Yeah, the bomb’s not a nice thing, but where we would have been without it?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right. What about later in the Cold War, after, and all the other things that were produced—all the other bombs that were produced? Do you think that added or ever shifted and change, or—especially in the late 60s with the protests?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, in the ‘60s, my da</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">d used to get to work with Dixy</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> Lee Ray periodically and t</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">hey’d sit and talk. And he always kept saying, </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">you know, we’ve kept it so quiet and we keep it so hush-hush. He says, we’re past that point now, we need to educate people on nuclear power and get away from the—people, and I still talk to people, especially not from around here, when you’re in other states, they cannot separate power from bomb. To them, it’s all one thing. There is no power, it’s just a bomb. And it’s like, no, yo</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">u</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> can have nuclear power and not have a bomb. And he kept saying, we need to educate—and I remember learning stuff about it in school here. Cousins and stuff back east, they never learned anything about it. They knew nothing about nuclear power, nuclear fission—nothing. [LAUGHTER] I think the sad part is that they didn’t do more educating, they just—they lived too long in that shroud of secrecy, and didn’t spread the knowledge. </span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">So you think, maybe it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">—even though everybody knew after ’45</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> what was—</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">and that they were continuing to produced, there was maybe a missed opportunity there.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And throughout the ‘50s it was still—you didn’t talk about it.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right, the fear, the </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">specter</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> of international communism.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Right, even though war was over with the bombs, everybody knows about it, it still was a hush-hush. Yeah, I think they missed an opportunity on education</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">nd people just grew up fearing it and not understanding anything about—</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">hey, </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">this could be a decent power source.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Taking Chernobyl out as a factor. [LAGUHTER] That was a poorly designed—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: There’s also Three Mile and other—certainly when a lot of people on the East Coast found about nuclear power</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> first</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, they learned about it when it wasn’t—sometimes it was a poor design to start with. Well, when we lived in Chicago, there’s the Indiana Dunes. They were trying to build one on the Dunes. They didn’t even have any bedrock to sink it into. And we’re going, you know, they’re dunes? They kind of like, don’t stay put? [L</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">A</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">UGHTER] When we left there, they were still trying to do it. And we’re like, that doesn’t even make sense. So then there was a lot of stupid mistakes, too, that</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">—yeah,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> you got to think about all the safety part.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right. But it seems kind of hard sometimes to separate the secrecy</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> even</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> from the—there’s so much</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> [INAUDIBLE].</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Do</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> you know,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> through</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> even</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> the mid ‘60s there was still tremendous secrecy. Mid</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> and</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> late ‘60s. </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">You still, living here, felt like, you know, it was hush-hush.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: But I imagine with the government owning the town until the late ‘50s that certainly you would keep that element of—that kind of vibe alive.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, and pretty much the same people who were here when the government released the town—when I graduated from</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> high school, what, were there 9</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">,000 people in Richland? That was in ’72. So a good chunk of those people were ones who were still here from World War II.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right, and you lived in Richland the whole time, from when you were growing up, when you were born.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Mm-hm.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So did you ever go to the other two cities much?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Oh, yeah! Downtown Pasco was one of the best places to shop!</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh really?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Oh, it had the classy stores!</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Really?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Oh, yeah. It was a major trek, but you’d go to downtown Pasco to go shopping. Well, that was a big day shopping, because they had the fancier ladies’ stores, they had shoe stores, they had the pet shop!</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And they had a big drug store, and furniture stores and you could spend a whole day in, quote, Downtown Pasco! [LAUGHTER] That was a classy place to go. And then the old downtown Kennewick</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> was—that</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> was more functional. It had Penney’s and Sears and stuff, you know. Not Sears—what was it? I can’t remember the name of the store. But when you needed fireplace stuff or a stove or something.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So like a Woolworth’s or something like that.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, but there were several stores. And there was the hardware store that’s still there.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah, the—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Kennewick Hardware is still there. It was there when I was little. I think one of the big things you remember is like going there in three feet of snow because our stove had caught fire. We had to buy a new stove. Back then you could leave your kid in the car, and I was tire</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">d of going in and out of stores, and sitting there in the car.</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> I was probably about four. Mom was just inside, you know, ordering a stove and we got a chinook. Within like the time that they took </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">them </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">to order their stove and come out, I watched the snow leave. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Totally fascinating. It was gurgling and stuff, but wow. That’s one thing about this area, you get chinooks. When you talk about it in Chicago, they go, huh? [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah. Wow, that’s really interesting. Did you have any friends from the other cities, or did you mostly—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: My parents’ best friends moved to Kennewick, which was my sister’s best friend—it started out with my sister’s best friend who they lived kitty-corner from us when I was born, and then our parents met and became best friends, and then her younger sister and I are best friends, and we’re each other’s kids’ godparents. But they—when I w</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">as about three or four</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">, they moved to Kennewick to a new house. [LAUGHTER] And then he commuted. He had to drive out to work because he c</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">ouldn’t—the buses didn’t go </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">to </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Kennewick;</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> they were only in Richland.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: S</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">o there was still a lot of induc</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">ement, then, to stay in Richland.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, you didn’t have to get that second car, because you’d just walk—most of the guys didn’t walk more than a block or two to get to the bus.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: I mean, these buses were everywhere.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah, at the project offices, we have a map—I think it’s from the</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> very</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> early ‘80s but even then they were</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> still running buses,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> and yeah, they</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">’d go all</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: They go everywhere and nobody walked more than two blocks from their house to a bus.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: That’s [INAUDIBLE].</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: So you only had to have one car. Even when my mom was working, she got the car to go to work and Dad rode the bus. Wasn’t any problem.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right. I bet that would help instill a certain sense of camaraderie, because you’d ride the bus with these guys, and it’s not like today when you get in a car and </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">you’re</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> kind of</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> in this bubble—you have a radio, but you’re kind of in a bubble. </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Whereas</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> in </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">a bus, </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">everyday</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">, you--</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Well, we lived there, where—the change between the government town and the newer part of town. So you had people like Dad—y</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">ou’ve got nuclear operators, you had </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">janitors and</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> you had</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> the scientists, all on the same bus. [LAUGHTER</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: I </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">mean,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> everybody rode the bus. When the bus would come, there’d always be five or six guys standing out down there. And a bunch would get off and a bunch would get on.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: So after the </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">changeover</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">, it was still the site that operated all the buses.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Mm-hm.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: D</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">id they have to pay for that, or was that just a perk?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: That was just—yeah, they just paid for it. I mean, the government paid for it—nobody else could ride the buses, only the workers and they only went to and from work. They weren’t for like the families to go shopping or anything. </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">It was just for the workers. </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">And, yeah, they just got on the buses and they knew they were going to be there.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: When did bus service start in the area for other people living in Richland?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: It had to have been after—as soon as they started building houses.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Because these guys had to get to work—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Oh, no</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">, sorry</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And most people back then, you had tire vouchers and stuff—you couldn’t like get tires overnight. You couldn’t even get bananas without a doctor’s prescription. [LAUGHTE</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">R] My siblings were skinny, so M</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">om always ended up with a prescription for bananas.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, they had to write doctor’s prescriptions. So getting a second car wasn’t even really an option</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">. So t</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">hey started the bus service really early, just getting these guys out to work as they started building the home.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow. So you brought in some documents and things. Would you like to—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Where’d we put them? [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: I think it’d be really interestin</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">g to get those on video and to have you </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">talk about </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">some</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> of those. </span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">All right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">They’re not super exciting. This is my dad’s birth certificate. The City of Miller which never was officially a city</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> in Lyon, Kansas. My father’s records were in the courthouse along with three generations of family records, and it burned dow</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">n when he was about seven. So he had</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> no birth certificate. And not too long after he started working here, they asked for his birth certificate—</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">that </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">he needed to get it. And he says, I don’t have one. So this is his newer birth certificate that they issued in May o</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">f ’42. He came in February so to May he had to get </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">it. They sent an FBI agent out who interviewed his father, his uncle who raised him—his mother died when he was</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> born</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> so his uncle raised him—and his aunt. And they also used an insurance policy that was issued when he was 20 to verify that he was him.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: So not everybody has all these affidavits and stuff at the bottom of their birth certificate, but this was from the FBI being able to verify. My great aunt was like, that was the weirdest thing. [LAUGHTER] Because back there, you just don’t have government people.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right. So they would have been out to the small town in Kansas, then.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Out in the middle of nowhere.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: To ask questions about her nephew.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: That was one thing growing up in Richland. You were so used to the FBI coming to your door at least once a month, because everybody had different cycles for their clearances. They would always come to your door and ask, are they part of your—do they drink, do they do that? We talked to them all the time. It was never any big deal, because always somebody in your neighborhood was renewing their certification—their clearance. When I lived in Chicago, they came about</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> somebody who was going to work</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> for the Tennessee Valley Authority. It was my neighbor. My neighbors all slammed the door in their face. I talked to the guy</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">, I opened the door,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> and I go, oh, yeah! It was security clearance. He goes, you’re the first one who’d talk to me.</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> I says, did it all the time when I was growing up.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Franklin</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">: Wow</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: But it scares a lot of people.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: But I think they thought</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> it was a little</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">—because the war’s going on, they don’t know what’s going on and here’s these FBI people wanting to know about my dad. I think they’re going, what’s he doing?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah, is he a spy?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, did he get in trouble? And they’re not allowed to tell them anything. So they thought it was very, very strange when these suited men showed up.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: That’s great, that’s a great story. And it’s great to have the documentation here to</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: You’ve already seen a million flood pictures.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Well, that’s still a pretty—very scarring event for a lot of people</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">, I bet</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, this was the flood of ’48. It came within a few blocks of where my parents were living at the time. Don’t ask which street that was back then, because they moved so much. But this was just a family picture of the Flood of ’48 that was so devastating. And then they put the dyke in.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right. </span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Here is—well, this one’s tiny. This is just a picture of any summer day in Richland. Everybody had kids. Most the families were young, so there </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">was</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> lots of kids. It was just—even when I was growing up was the same way in the ‘60s. There </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">was</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> kids everywhere. Riding bikes and running between houses, and you came in when the street lights came on.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And I imagine not a lot of elderly people in Richland, right? And so that must have—because you would have had grandparents, but they would have been far away, or they wouldn’t be living in town. Whereas in Kennewick and Pasco people might have more extended families living near them.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Right. My grandmo</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">ther came here to live with Mom and D</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">ad not too long before she died. But, yeah, grandparents—if you were retired you couldn’t live in Richland.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right, right.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: If you were not working for Hanford, you didn’t live there. So, yeah, there weren’t old people and most of the construction workers who came were young and all had young families.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: So there were kids pouring out of every house.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: So this is—how many kids are in just—this is Mom and </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Dad’s front yard. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> the kids played ball together, they ran and played tag. There were no fences, so all the backs of the yards were like one big yard.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow. And probably still not a lot of trees at that time.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Davis</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">: Not really.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And when—can we look at this photo on the back?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: This was 1948. So that’s only three years after the war. So, yeah, the trees are still—if you look around, you don’t see any trees.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Franklin</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">: Right. Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And here’s another one. This one would be—let’s see. This’d be ’46. No trees. There’s a bush. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And this is one of your sisters?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: This is my sister. Yeah. First day of kindergarten. But what I brought it for was the A house. See, they had the dark color on top—this one</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">, I’m guessing,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> is probably the red one. And then the cream. They were all like that, they were all bicolored. We had cream and then one of the other three choices. You had green, red, and blue. That was it.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: The governm</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">ent supplied the paint. This is</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> the house that I grew up in on Newcomer. It was the first spec house sold. We’re still getting our water lines.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And my dog, Tippy. This is</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">n’t the garage anymore; somebody’s changed it out. But we had—it was really fresh and new.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And this was 1960?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: ’60. Yeah, February of ’60 is when we moved in.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Mom says January</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> of ‘60</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">. I always think it was February but oh well. Halfway through kindergarten, I had to change schools. My siblings went, so? Because they had to change schools all the time.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah, not a lot of sympathy for you, I bet.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And this is my dad getting an award for what they called the Christmas Tree, which was the front of the reactor that had lights—indicator lights on it. I don’t know if it says exactly what he—just came up, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: He’s D. D. Smith?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Most people called him D</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">. D. or </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span class="SpellingError SCX253515545">Smitty</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">. His named was </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span class="SpellingError SCX253515545">Dera</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span class="SpellingError SCX253515545">ld</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span class="SpellingError SCX253515545">Dera</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span class="SpellingError SCX253515545">ld</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span class="SpellingError SCX253515545">Derald</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">. Like Gerald but with a D. Let’s see. Yeah, he was considered a pile operator. $185 was his award, which—like I said, that was a lot of money.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: A couple weeks’ wages, probably.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: At least two or three weeks’ worth of wages. So that was a really big thing. Yeah, something about modifying the lights or something so they were easier to read. Apparently they thought it was a good idea. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow. Do you know when that wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">s? Was that during the war? W</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">as this—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Since my dad never looked any different over a 40</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> or </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">50-year</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> period, I’m not sure what da</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">te is on this. What was funny i</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">s on the back, I found my friend’s dad’s name on it. [LAUGHTER] An</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">d I went, oh! I’m kind of guessing</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> this might be the ‘50s?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Early ‘60s? I’m looking at the ties.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: No, that’s good.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: They had a paper that came out of the Areas. That was in that paper—the Area</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> paper</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> was a little fold-up.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Y</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">eah, we have a bound collection of a lot of the Hanford G</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">E</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> News and a lot of that. Let’s see this here.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: 1944. This is my dad’s card for the International Union of Operating Engineers.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And t</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">hat was December of ’44.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: So this is still during the war.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah!</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And this is the other part of the same thing, the International Union of Operating Engineers. Came out of Spokane. Got stamped</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">;</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> I guess </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">for going to meetings. No, his dues, his dues and going to meetings.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Makes sense.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Whoops. This isn’t for my </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">dad;</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> this is for my grandmother. I need to go show Kadlec this. </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">[LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">My grandmother got cancer and was in Kadlec Hospital for six weeks before she died.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Here’s the total of her bill. $386.15.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: The operating room cost $8.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Anesthesia was $10. It cost more.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Lab, dressings—yeah,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> and</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> she was there for six weeks before she died.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Six weeks.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And that’s her bill. This bill was—yeah, written on the day she died.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay. And what </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">date was that?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: 1946.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Oh, okay. So she moved in, then, pretty soon after the war ended?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">nd she moved to</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Hungate</span>: And it’s billed </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">through DuPont.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yup. </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Oh, even I—</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">I</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> didn’t even notice</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> that. DuPont.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: DuPont.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: I don’t know of many people still have a bill from 1946.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: No. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">hat’s a very interesting bill, though.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: What is this one? Oh, this is just really bad pictures</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> that they took—every year </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">they had to have their pictures renewed. [LAUGHTER] That was—that had to have been a windy day,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> because his hair’s sticking up</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> all over.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right, well,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> like you said earlier, </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">they had thousands upon thousands of men to process.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, it’s like</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> while</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> you’re at work,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> and it’s just like</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> get your picture taken, click, and you’re done.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And this, on the front it says GE so—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, that would have been from</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> after</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> GE took over. I’d say from that picture from the ‘60s.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: What’s this</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> one</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">? Just a few little</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> odd things I found in M</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">om’s</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">—oh, just—from February of 1942, </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">The </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">University of Kansas School of Engineering and Architecture</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> Engineering Defense Training Program from—his certificate.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, this is—I’m not sure exactly what they taught him, or—he never talked about this. I knew nothing about this until I found this just this last week.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow, interesting.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: So I have no story to go with this</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> other than the date and it’s my dad.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right. So then he would have </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">came</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> out here very shortly after getting this, right?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Mm-hm.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Interesting</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Like I say, </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">when they told him to come out, they didn’t tell him why or anything. Just go to this place in Washington that you’ve </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">never</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> heard of.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah, we have a job for you.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And you’re going to have trouble finding it on a map, even. [LAUGHTER] This is just a—it’s got—it says N Reactor Plant Dates—Data. Just about—I think it was a reference for them when they were working.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: It’s pocket size.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: So I think it was just a—yeah, decontaminating, water treatment—I think it was just a little reference thing that they kept in their—on their person.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And then my dad was trying to get my uncle to move out here from Kansas. [LAUGHTER] And he wrote a letter describing wages, jobs. So, trying to get down</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> to there. Let’s </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">see. “They want patrolmen pretty badly. The pay isn’t as much as I make by about $18 a week.” But my uncle was single, never married, so it probably wasn’t any problem to him. </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">And </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">he s</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">ys, “However it isn’t bad. You start at $5</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">8 a week.” [LAUGHTER] It says, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> week. And after 30 days, after you’ve passed that, you move up to $60 a week. And then after six</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> months you get $62.50 a week. </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Yeah, they were looking for patrolmen and firemen and a lot of the other stuff. And he asked—my uncle was in World War Two, and he asked if he had any training in anything specific that might be used out here. But my uncle stayed back in Kansas and eventually became a—because of </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">being </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">ex-military, he became a postman. Not a postman, a postmaster.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: O</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">kay.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: A postmaster in a little town. But he never did come out. I just thought the pricing—just thought it was interesting, because 58 bucks a week.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: That would have been</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">—that’s a good</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> chunk of money back then.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: For my uncle, for what he was making in Kansas it would have been a whole lot of money. </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">[INAUDIBLE]</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> Oh, meals at the cafeteria average $0.75. It’s just littered with little stuff like that. He was trying to convince my uncle to move back out here.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right, wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: What’s this? Oh. This was in a </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Kansas City Times</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> in 1947. </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">“</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Growing Town of Atom Plant Workers Is a Distinctive Sort of Community.</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">”</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Mm.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: So, that was kind of—you know. This is what, when people</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> released</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">—after the war’s over, people are starting to hear, now, what the heck was—[LAUGHTER] going on, and how different our towns were from towns that had been around for 100 years.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right. And that it’s completely government controlled and—</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, and plants were far from town. You know, Dad would usually spend an hour on the bus going out to work, and we </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">were</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> in North Richland.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yeah, but I think this is what my uncle had cut out and sent to him.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Cool.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: From Kansas. And the highest birthrates in the nation. [LAUGHTER] Because everybody was young. I was part of that major boom. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah. Wow, that’s neat. That’s neat that he saved that.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And my sister says—we were talking and she said, yeah, when you went to school, you stood up on the first day of school and said where you were from. Kansas, Oklahoma, Arkansas. When I went to school, we had all been born here. There weren’t any outsiders, I </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">guess</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">, because we were all born here.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">Franklin: Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: But d</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">u</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">ring the war, everybody stood up and said where they were from. Because everybody was from somewhere.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: She says, there was a few—once in a while you’d run into somebody </span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">who says, oh, I was born here. And they’re like, o</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">h. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Yeah, oh, you’re an original!</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Oh, you’re really strange! You didn’t come from the Midwest? Because that seems</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> to be the biggest proportion came from the Midwest. Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Arkansas.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: And Texas, too, there</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> was</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"> a huge—b</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">ut that’s definitely where they were pulling lots of people from.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: And it was mostly by word of mouth as their job tended to—go to Washington. What are we going to do? Can’t tell you. Because I don’t know.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX253515545">
<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: Take this train to a place you’ve never heard of.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Yup. Any other questions?</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Franklin</span>: No, I think that was great. Thank you so much for sharing. I learned a lot of things that I didn’t know about, growing up here.</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX253515545"><span class="TextRun SCX253515545"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Davis</span>: Oh, I probably—going to think of a million things driving home</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">, I’m sure</span><span class="TextRun SCX253515545">. Oh, I should have said—[LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX253515545"> </span></p>
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Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Franklin
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Linda Davis
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:59:18
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
B Reactor
N Reactor
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Lee Ray, Dixe
Smith, Derald
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
232 kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Linda Davis
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Linda Davis conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
hose interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
5/26/2016
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-07-26: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
B Reactor
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
N Reactor
Pasco (Wash.)
Richland (Wash.)
-
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f287161aff407d507797401b6b03f0d5
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F1b4d000db44e1cb8761e58f9bedc02ab.mp4
55abe4852274c66ce085092001035e43
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Loris Brinkman
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span class="SpellingError SCX267983003">Brinkman_Loris</span></span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></strong></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Loris </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">L-O-R-I-S and Brinkman is B-R-I-N-K-M-A-N.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Thank you very much. Thanks for letting us talk to you today, I appreciate it. Today's date is October 29, 2013. My</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> name is Robert Bau</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">man and we're condu</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">cting this interview in Richland</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">, Washington. So let's start, if you could,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Loris, by having you tell us about how you came to Hanford, what brought you here, and when did you arrive?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">, I was, as I stated be</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">fore, I spent seven years with Civil Conservation—w</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">ith the CCCs. And then I got a</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">job with DuPont spent one year at Rosemount Minnesota, and that was from 1942 to '43. So I came out here in</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">September of '43. And I came out here and they sent me out to 200 West. I came out to 200 West</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> and there</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">wasn't much going on the</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">re yet. It was pretty i</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">n the beginning part of it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Now they were digging</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">t</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">hey were excavating for the 221-</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">T B</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">uilding. And I think they were probably building on</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">the powerhouse. Well, my first job</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> they had to get water down there. And there was a water line just north of us,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">as I recall. And the first thing we had to do is to have a temporary water line, and that was made of wood pipe.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And it was laid out, and it was laid out like this</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> so it made a circle around there so that all the facilities would be</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">able to get water from this water line. And I was given the job of somebody has to follow the work. And there were</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">be places where we'd have to pour some concrete. And it was wood pipe. And wood pipe was certainly new.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And so when we got that pretty well taken care of</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> I was given the job to follow the steam lines. Now as I said, the</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">powerhouse was under construction. And the steam line that came out of the powerhouse was about 16 inches in</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">diameter. And you see, at th</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">at time, there was the T Building and the U B</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">uilding. And the steam lines came out of</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">the powerhouse, which was kind of halfway in between the two.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And then </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">one line went up towards the T B</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">uilding and the oth</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">er line went down toward the U B</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">uilding. Well there</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">was construction or excavation being g</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">oing on at the</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">I think they called it the 221-</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">T B</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">uilding. And the steam</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">lines were necessary because they were going to furnish the steam for all the construction there. Now in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">steam line, it doesn't sound like a very important job, but we would probably go 300 to 400 feet.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And then there would </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">have to be a, what they called </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">an expansion loop there. It would go like this. And that was</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">to take care of the expansion when the steam was in operation. Now the thing that we did was we would construct</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">maybe three</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">I don't remember</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">but 300 to 500 feet in length. And then there would have to be a loop to take</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">care of the expansion.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And what we would do is to construct a line, and then about midway between these expansion loops</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> we would cut</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">the line and take out about two or three inches, as I recall. And then they would put chains on there and bring</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">those two together and weld them together. Now the reason for that is that the tension was on there when it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">cold.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And when they put the steam in the line, the expansion would make the steam line pretty much without tension on</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">it. You get the idea? And along with that steam line</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> I worked on construction of several permanent buildings that</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">were part of the main construction there. And that was the</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">we had the laundry</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> and we had the office building,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">and a few buildings like that. I worked on those, too.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Now when the work was all complete, my portion of the work was fin</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">ished there, I went to the 200 E</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">ast A</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">rea. And I</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">don't really remember what I did there, but I think it was probably sim</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">ilar to what I did over in the W</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">est A</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">rea. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">after about a year's work there, the work that I was doing was pretty well completed.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And so I went to</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">excuse me. See, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">t my age names don't come quite like they used to.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: That’s right, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> But I went to Indiana, to the</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Indiana Ordinance Works. And I worked there for about a year. And by that time, after completing the work there, I</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">went to the Wilmington</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> head office</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> there,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> and I worked </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">there for about two and a half years. </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">But</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> you know,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> after being out here a year, I couldn't quite get this place out of my mind. As we said, if you can last six</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">months, you're going to like it. But many people came out here didn't last six months. When I came out here in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">beginning, I was going to</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">the fellow that I was working with at Rosemount was already out here.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And he had a room in Pasco, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">nd I was going to room with him. So when I got out here and I called his number,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">and I said, I'd like to speak to Ham</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">m</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">. Mr. Ham</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">m</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> terminated last Friday. And there was another man with me and he</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">said, Mr. Brinkman, I don't know anything about Mr. Ham</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">m</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">. I will tell you one thing, it takes a damn good man to</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">stay out here.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">But anyway, after another year down at Wilmington</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">or down at Indiana Ordina</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">nce Works, I went to Wilmington and</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> I</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">stayed there for about </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">two and a half</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> years. And then there was an opportunity for me to get back out here. I didn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">hesitate. I came out here again. Got out here in</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">I think it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">1948. And I've been here ever since.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">What was it about the place that made you want to come back?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">One of the things is the climate. This is ideal climate. We don't have these 40 degree weather that we had in</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Wisconsin. Once in a</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">while i</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">t did get cold here. One time. I was, let’s see—w</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">e did have six days of cold weather. And the</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">temperature got as low as minus 26 or 27 degrees.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> And that was six days.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And then I went out in the evening and oh, I says we have a chinook. A chinook</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">they called it a chinook when the</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">warm breeze would come in there. And it's chinook. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">nd the temperature went up 40,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> 50 degrees</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> in the night</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">. So the cold</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">period was over with. But I just like the weather. I like the people that were here.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">They were people that were out here for one purpose, we've got to get this thing built. We need this in our war. So</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">that was the main thing that I liked out here.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Mm-hm. </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">When you first came in 1943, what were your very first impressions of the place? Do you remember?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Well, I really didn't hate the place. A lot of people did. We didn't have very much sunshine. There was about six</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">weeks the sun didn't shine. But I really enjoyed the place.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And when you came out here to work, what did you know about the work you were doing or what Hanford was</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">for?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Well, in the first place, you didn't know what we were going to make here. Nobody's</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">there were a few people that</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">knew, but that was not discussed. We did not discuss what we were going to make here and what it was going to</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">be used for. That was absolutely quiet.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Do you remember when you found out?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Yes, when I was</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">I think it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">in Indiana Ordinance Works when they dropped the bomb. Then I knew what we</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">were doing out here. That this was very important. And the bomb was very important.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And when you worked out here in 1943, do you remember how much money you made?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Yes. I made</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">I think it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">about $85 a week.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And how many hours a week was that?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Well, when I first started out here it was nine hours, six days a week. Put in about 54 hours.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And then when you came back in 1948, what sort of job did you have when you came back here?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">I have to think a little bit on this, on what I did. I don't remember what exactly what the first job was. But my biggest</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">job after getting back here was construction of</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">supervising, or not really supervising, but seeing that the job was</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">done according to the plans of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> tank farm. We had these underground tanks. You see, we had waste, and that</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">waste had lots of plutonium in there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">We didn't get it all out. The uranium was changed in</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">part of it was changed in</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">to</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> plutonium. And then that was in</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">the 100 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">rea. Or</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">yeah, the B A</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">rea an</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">d 100 Areas. And then in the 200 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">reas they separated the plutonium. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">the plutonium was used to make the bomb. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> then</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> there we had tank farms.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> Oh,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">I'm trying to think how many, 750,000 gallons or something like that. And we usually had 12 steel tanks. And we</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">would dig a hole way down deep. And these tanks were, I think, something like 75 feet in diameter. And we'd pour</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">a concrete base and then we'd build from there. And they would go up about 75 feet.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And then when they were all completed, then we'd backfill again. And then we'd have these tanks ready for the</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">waste from the process that was going on there. And I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">I don't remember just how many</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">but we had</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">maybe three or four tank farms. And I worked on those tank farms</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">. I was known as the tank farm</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> engineer,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">something like that.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">So what did being a tank farm</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> engineer involve? Sort of, supervising?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Yeah, you have to have somebody there. We would have a contractor do the work. And we would have to see that</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">it was done properly, </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">check </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">everything that was done. And be very careful about the back filling and that sort of thing.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">So how long did you work the tank farms?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Oh, I think maybe two or three years, probably.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">What did you do after that?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Well, I have to think now.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> After that</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> I got involved mostly with</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">as we call it</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">the project engineering. And with this</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">place there were always new facilities being created. And we call them a project. Maybe we would design this</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">project and then follow the construction of it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">But there was considerable work being done all the time. And I was part of the project engineering work.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And so how long in all did you work at Hanford? When did you stop working?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Okay.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> I was 59, and that was in 1971, I think it was. And then I retired. And about a year later</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">, why,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> they called me and</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">said, would you come </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">out and help us? And I said, no!</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> And then I thought about it a bit and I said, wait a minute,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">call me tomorrow. I'll think about it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And they called the next day</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> and I says, I'll come out and work about four months. And you know, I enjoyed it very</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">much. And the next year I went out again for four months</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">. And I did that for four years!</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> Finally I got to the stage</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">where I said, no, I think I've gone long enough. It's now time for me to travel.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">So after that,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> why,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> then my wife and I traveled all over the world. We took three month tours and went around the</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">world, down South America, and that sort of thing. And we loved that very much.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">I want to go back to when you first came to Hanford in 1943, you mentioned that a lot of people stayed </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">for </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">just a little</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">while and left. What sorts of things were there to do for fun? Was there entertainment available? What sorts of</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">things happened here?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Well, </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">they had a big place down at</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> Hanford itself. They built barracks for people. And they had, well, for one</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">thing in ten days they built a great big building which was the entertainment building. And they had</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> party—or</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> dances and</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">that sort of thing. And they had beer places around.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">People could buy a</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> big</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> jar of beer. And they had lots of those. They had to have facilities here that would interest</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">people so they would stay. And they spent a lot of money on that to make interests for people.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Mm-hm. </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And you said when you first came you</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">did you stay in Pasco?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">No, let's s</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">ee, I first stayed up at Grandv</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">iew. I stayed there and worked back and forth. Then I got a house in</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Richland. And that was great, then. And I stayed there until I moved out to--</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">To Indiana?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Yeah, Indiana. Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And then when you came back in 1948, where did you</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">did you move into Richland?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Yeah, r</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">ight in there. I got a house. I had</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> got a house practically right away.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">What was Richland like as a community in the 1940s?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Well, it wasn't a big town in the 1940s. Oh, you mean before we came out here?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">No, I mean when you were here.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">All right, when we were here</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">—see, </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">I have to think a little bit. We had</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">—</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Woman one</span>: Hello?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: W</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">e had a number of stores</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Woman</span>: Hello? That’s okay, I’ll come back later.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: B</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">ut Pasco had stores</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">and Kennewick had stores. And most of the shopping was done over in those areas. But we did, then, we had the</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">C</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">. </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">C</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> Anderson place here.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And that was a place, they had good material in there that you could buy. It wasn't a very big shopping area here,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">but it was adequate. I would say that.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Did you go over to Kennewick and Pasco occasionally, then</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">, to shop</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Oh, sure. Yeah. And the funny part of it was my daughter, when we got over to Kennewick, she said this is a real</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">city.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> It's </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">a little bit different than</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> Richland</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> was</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">. But Richland was being built all the time and adding new facilities,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">new stores, </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">new</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> houses all the time, until it got to be a pretty good place.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">I</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">’ve</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> had a few people I talked to from that period talk about the dust storms. Was that an issue at all that you</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">remember?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Yes, we had dust storms. And when we had a dust storm, we'd close the windows, of course. But there would be</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">dust all over the inside of your house. And that was the thing that sent quite a few people out of here. They'd have</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">a dust storm and then they'd leave.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">But it didn't bother us, we jus</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">t took those things in stride. We liked—b</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">y that time I liked it here. And when we came back on</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">the second time</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">, we got this house, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">nd right across the street was the school. My wife went over and said, I'm a</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">teacher, I have a master's degree,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">I</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> would like a job.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">She got a job as a fifth grade teacher just like that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">[LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And she taught there for 23 years.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And w</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">hat school was this?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">In f</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">ifth grade.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Do you remember which elementary school it was?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Yeah, it was Lewis and Clark. And we lived right across the street from there, right on the corner.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Oh, okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">, did you have one of the alphabet homes?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Yeah, H house. And then the time came when we were able to buy that house. And that was wonderful, too. That</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">turned into a good deal for us.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Do you remember how much?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Yeah, I paid about $6,000 for it. Then I added. I did some construction on it. I added</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">enlarged the two</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">bedrooms. And when we sold it,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> boy,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> I don't mind saying</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> it</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">, we sold it for $85,000. And made a return of say, like,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">$76,000 or $77,000. So that was a good thing for us.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">That's a pretty good deal.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Yeah, it was a very good deal. Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">President Kennedy came out </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">here in 1963 to dedicate the N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">eactor. I wonder, were you there? Did you see him</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">when he came</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> at all</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">I sure was there.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">What do yo</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">u remember about his visit here?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">I don't remember anything about his speech. He just, as I recall, he emphasized the fact of the importance of this</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">work here. That was probably the main thing. And he tried to make us feel like we were really doing something</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">great for the country. And I guess we were.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">You and your whole</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">were your whole family out there as well?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Oh yeah, the whole family was there, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">A very special event.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">You see, they</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">it was wonderful for us to have that school there</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">. [LAUGHTER] Because</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> my wife could go over there and teach and</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">then get back in time. And when I got home the meals were ready.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">So I wanted to ask about security at Hanford. Did you have to have special clearance?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Oh yes, yes. Yes, w</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">e had to have Q clearance</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">, mm-hm</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Are there any other events that really stand out in your mind?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Any what?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Any events that stand out in your mind</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> or things that happened during the time you worked at Hanford that you</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">just thought were really interesting or important?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Well, I should remember, but my mind doesn't function like it should in that case. I don't know that there was</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">anything—i</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">mportant things that we had.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Overall, how was Hanford as a place to work?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">How was what?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Hanford as a place to work?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Wonderful, as far as I was concerned.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And what was it about working there that made it wonderful for you?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Well, we worked out in</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> the area most the time. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> people</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">we all worked together. That was the thing, I</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">thi</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">nk, that was—t</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">hat we were all working together</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> helping to accomplish what we were set out to do there. Now my</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">mind doesn't work quite like it should.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Of the different jobs you had at Hanford, was there one that was a favorite for you, one that you really enjoy the</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">most?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">It wasn't the tank farm. That wasn't it. But I think the part I liked the best was in the latter part</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> we worked on</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">various projects. And the projects were our projects, so to speak. And we were interested in seeing that those</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">we probably designed them, worked out the design and then followed the construction of it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">And we were just anxious to see how it worked out.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Is there anything I haven't asked you about yet</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> or that you haven't had a chance to talk about yet</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> in terms of</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">either working at Hanford or living in Richland</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> that you think would be important to talk about?</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Well, as I said, at my age here</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> my mind doesn't do quite what I hoped it would do.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">You're doing great.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Well, we just, oh, when we got, as far as the schools are concerned, we had such great sports here. Our</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">basketball team has won the state championship three times. They had won the state championship in football</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">once or twice. And this has ju</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">st been a very wonderful</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> sports area.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">We've had </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">quite a few basketball players that played well for colleges. And as I said, we won state championships</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">three times and got second place maybe three or four times. It was just wonderful sports. And we were always</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">my wife and I were always interested in sports. We would go to the other cities and that sort of thing.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">My son played on the basketball team.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Great. </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Well, </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">I want to thank you very much for letting us talk to you today.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> And for sharing your memories. I really appreciate--</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">My mind doesn't work quite the way it should right now.</span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">It's working pretty darn well, myself. [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Well.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Thank you, again. I really appreciate it.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Brinkman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Well I'm sure glad that if I have anything here that will be of some use to you, I'm sure happy to have helped out.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX267983003">
<p class="Paragraph SCX267983003"><span class="TextRun SCX267983003"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX267983003">Absolutely. Thank you very much.</span><span class="EOP SCX267983003"> </span></p>
</div>
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:35:01
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
193 kbps
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
200 East Area
100 Area
B Area
200 Area
N Reactor
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1943-2013
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1943-1971
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963;
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Loris Brinkman
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Loris Brinkman conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy. Loris Brinkman passed away on August 1, 2017. <a href="http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/tricityherald/obituary.aspx?n=loris-b-brinkman&pid=186392713">Obituary</a>.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2013-10-29
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-07-21: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Nuclear weapons plants--Waste disposal--Environmental aspects--Washington (State)--Hanford Site.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
100 Area
200 Area
200 East Area
B Area
Hanford (Wash.)
Kennedy, John F. (John Fitzgerald), 1917-1963;
Kennewick (Wash.)
N Reactor
Pasco (Wash.)
Richland (Wash.)
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F28a2a31d0a10e6436fafce8d65fec651.jpg
b9619b036e3525d491cc95915e251e35
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fb699b96eac222f7a141bc116875ae9d2.mp4
2afe44cc1de41ef0a133dfaf1f298ffc
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Douglas O' Reagan
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Maynard Plahuta
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX227234824">
<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Douglas O’Reagan</span>: Okay. My name is Douglas O’Reagan. I’m conducting an oral history interview with Mayn</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ard Plahuta on Thursday, I guess it’s</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">—sorry, what is the date today?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX227234824">
<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: 28</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX227234824">th</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Is it the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">28</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX227234824">th</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">? O</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">kay. April 28</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX227234824">th</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, 2016. This interview is being conducted on the campus of </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Washington</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> State University Tri-Cities. I’ll be speaking with Mr. Plahuta about his experiences working on the Hanford site and living in the Tri-Cities. To start us off, could you please pronounce and spell your name for us?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Yes. It’s Maynard Plahuta. Maynard is M-A-Y-N-A-R-D, and Plahuta is P-L-A-H-U-T-A.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Thank you. Just to start off, could you tell us a little bit </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">about</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> your life before you came to the Tri-Cities?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Okay. Well, I was born in a little old farming com</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">munity in Wisconsin—a little</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> dairy farming community. Big population of 200</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> people. Then </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">I grew up there on the farm most of the time and went on to college. Went to</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> University of Wisconsin, first got my undergrad work, and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">then </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">later </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">I went back</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> and got my master’s in business administration. In between those two times, I worked for General Motors, the AC spark plug plant in Oak</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> Ridge</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">—not Oak Ridge, I’m sorry—Oak Park</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, Wisconsin, which was the Titan</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> missile program for the Air Force, the guidance system—the gyro system. So then I went back to grad school and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">then </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">joined up with the Atomic Energy Commissi</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">on and was assigned out here at </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Richland.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: What attracted you to the AEC?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Well, I think part of it was the interest in kind of science and industry and all of that sort of thing. The people from Argonne Lab at the Chicago Operations office came to interview at the campus there. I and another fellow were invited to then go back to Argonne for a further interview, and I was one of the two that was selected to join. At the time, I didn’t know where I would be located. They asked, well, if you had a preference. We aren’t going to pick particular places, but if you had a preference, list the three sites that the Atomic Energy Commission was at that I would enjoy. So I said, well, of course</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the first one was at the Argonne Lab, close by home there. And I don’t remember which I put second or third, but it was either Richland, Washington or Schenectady, New York. I ended up be</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ing in Schenectady for a </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">while</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> basically</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">. But I was as</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">signed out here at Richland, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> it was interesting because </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">he says, well, you know, this is not the western—this isn’t the Evergreen State. And I said, well, I learned that by looking up a little more information on Hanford out in the desert. So I came out here with the idea that probably these assignments would be for one year. Because we were on what they called the technical and administrative intern program. So, I was selected on that intern program, and said probably be there a year, an</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">d probably no longer, because we</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">’ll probably assign you somewhere else. Well, I came, and I was here until ’71 and then I went back to Sche</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">nectady for four years, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> came back and was here ever since.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: What sort of jobs were you working on then?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Well, initially—my graduate work was in</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> labor relations and in personnel</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> management and that sort of thing. At that time, they didn’t call it human re</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">sources, they called it personnel</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> management. So I </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">was, first year out here, probably in the personnel department for about a year. And then that’s when the whole diversification program started here in 1963 or ’64. And I was assigned to look at the unique </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">use permit and work for a fellow by the name of Paul Holstead who had the responsibility for all the lab op</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">erations as far as</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the Atomic Energy Commission was concerned. Th</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">at was very interesting. So that was all start of this</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> whole </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">arrangement with Battelle </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">being selected to operate the Pacific Northwest Lab. Now, at that time it w</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">asn’t called a national lab yet;</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> it was just Pacific Northwest Lab. And they had that particular use permit, which is no longer in existence, but it was a real ideal situation. And then that led into what they called the Consolidated Lab where they could do private work as well as the government work and all</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> of</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> that. So I administered that contract, then, for a few years, or until I went back to Schenec</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">tady. Then I was back in personne</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">l management in Schenectady, though—labor relations area, under Rickover’s program, and that was very interesting. Then I came back here again in ’65 and was in personnel for a while but then back at the laboratory for a while. And I worked on that fo</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">r—oh, gosh, quite a few years, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ecause I had a total of 35 years i</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">n. But most of the time was with the laboratory, but then later on, I was asked to take over t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">he responsibilities for the DOE—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">t that time was already DOE—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">and the site infrastructure. You know, the roads, the utilities, the sewer plants, the warehouse buildings, the railroads, the—all the utilities, just like running a whole city. It was not the operations of those i</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">nfrastructure; it was more the capital </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">improvements and the projects that needed to be done. Either new roads or new utilities or whatever it might be. That was for—I don’t know—four, five, six years. That also included some of the relationship with the tribes in the cultural resource programs and that sort of activity. But then the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> other</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> manager asked</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> us, jeepers</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, you know, I would really like to set up something we never had here at Richland before. That was</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> sort of</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> a governmental relations program. So he asked if I would be willing to do that. So the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> last—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">oh, probably about the last six years of my career, I was in what they call governmental-congressional relations, dealing—almost </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">daily basis with congressional staff. Primarily congressional staff, some within the state government as well, and the local government, particularly in those sorts of things. So I retired doing that job in ’98.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">O’R</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">eagan</span>: Great. Let’s back up. Could</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> you tell us about this diversification program?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Yeah, yeah. That was really interest</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ing, because what the idea was—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">hat is when General Electric</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> decided not to continue with their contract. Up until that time, General Electric had one contract for whole site operations. So the idea was two-fold. GE was not particularly interested in continuing doing that particular work, and the community was going through—yes, they still are—the diversification and further economic development for the community. So, there was a big effort there to break up the whole big contract into—I think it was five or six different segments. It was all up for bid, and various people were bidding for it. The laboratory, though, was separated as one of those segments. That was the first one to be authorized, and Battelle came in then operations in July of ’65. But up until—during that whole year, I was kind of working on part of the bid package going out and working on that. But not extensively. But then after the bid was accepted from Battelle, and they put an operation in, it got into this matter of doing this. The diversification program itself was dependent much on what these bidders would propose to supplement the economy here in the Tri</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">-Cities. In fact, that’s how this</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> WSU campus—you may be aware—was part of one of the contractors’ business, that they’d build this facility. Up until that time, GE had a little building down where the bank is—the National Bank down there by the Federal Building—and that wasn’</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">t built either yet—to service the program that they established, their educational program, which is very unique because there wasn’t really any nuclear engineering classes in universities—or very few. So they really brought tech people in and really gave </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">them a good background and education in nuclear operations and so on. Now, I said the Federal Building wasn’t built then. It was built then. It was in the process of being built when I came out here in ’63. So that diversification was </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">the spin</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">off of a lot of new types of business here in the Tri-Cities. I mean, Exxon Nuclear, which now later is now part of AREVA out here at the site, the fuel fabri</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">cation. That started out a spinoff from</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> some of the activity there. There was just a great amount of enthusiasm at that time, because</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> there was worries that the government will fold up and the city will kind of dry up and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">blow</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> away so to speak. So that was a very interesting period. There was some very interesting discussions, very interesting foresights of what might happen. A number of those didn’t survive. There were some things—isotope development was one at that time that was a little bit ahead of its time, I think. But there was—the airport was improved by that. What’s now the Red </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Lion in</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> town, but</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the Hanford House, it was called then</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, I think it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">—no, Desert Inn. The Desert Inn at that time was a brand new building they put up at that time. So it was a different time, and rather unique type</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> of activity that was going on in this community at that time.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Were these discussions going on in the newspapers, or just sort of hand-shake meetings?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Well, they were pretty well open discussions about what they wanted. And there was quite a bit of </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">publicity</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> about the fact of what some of these contractors—potential contractors were offering. That was exciting for the people, because some of these were new developments. Like the whole campus here, an original building that was part of one of the contractors’ bids. And the hotels and the stockyards over in Wallula</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> over there, that was another one. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">nd</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, gee, I </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">can</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">’t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> remember all of them, but there were a number. I know the isotope development thing—the isotope separations, I could really say, was one that didn’t quite make it. But anyway, it was a period of time when people were looking forward into the future and what might come, and looking at different types of work, and not so dependen</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">t just on the government here. Now, o</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">f course, we’re still quite dependent on the government here, and that’s been—what, 30 years—oh, more than that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">That</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> was 1965, so that’s been a long, long time ago. But a lot has progressed, obviously, from that time. I remember coming here—I wasn’t married at the time. I met my wife here. But, gee, if people wanted to go shopping, they’d either go to Walla Walla or Yakima or something. You know, there was nothing here. The mall out there wasn’t developed. It was—very little here to—and about the restaurants, you’d go over to Prosser to the Red Barn or something if you wanted a good meal. You could always find a hamburger shop here or something like that, but it was quite different then. Of course, my wife grew up here. She was only five years old when her parents came from Schenectady, New York with GE. She can remember—gosh, when hardly anything was going on, and families would just get together </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">because</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> they were from—god, all over the country. So many of them didn’t have any family here, so they created their own families, so to speak. But, yeah, that diversification effort was a great effort. There was much success, much success. I think a lot of what was learned there has been helpful and useful for the community. And I do have to give a credit, though, to Battelle and some of the forward-thinking that they did on what their operations were, very successful. And this Consolidated Lab which most people even in this community don’t understand or recognize, but it was very unique. There was a fellow that was with GE, went</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> over</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> with Battelle, of course, when they took over, by the name of Wally Sale. He was their finance director. Tremendous guy. He and Sam Tomlinson and the DOE—or AEC—I call it DOE, but it was the AEC then—were both very, very instrumental in getting this unique idea established and working there, where it was a fair amount of discipline and very good audit-type processing and very excellent means of </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">determining that everything was legitimate, so to speak. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">That the accounting was very precise. It was a unique situation.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: So you were still working with the AEC while you were working on that?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Okay. So they were—even though they weren’t sort of a bidder, or in direct—</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Plahuta:</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> No, no.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: They were still involved—</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Yeah, they were the organization or the entity that was accepting these bids and proposals going out and diversify the area. That was—I should also mention, that was a lot to do </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">with</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> some </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">of the local community leaders here, though, too,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> was pushing this idea with the government that, no, we got to depend on more than just the US government to keep this economy going. So there were guys </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">like Sam Volpentest and others—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">B</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ob Philips and other people—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">who were working closely with our two senators. They were actively involved. Magnusson and Jackson—Scoop Jackson and Maggie. Very, very </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">obvious. And they both held very high level positions in the government at that time. I mean, they were—there was some thought for a while about Scoop Jackson even running for President. So they both were elevated in the structure of the politicians in the DC area. So, there was a great support there from our local state senators, particularly.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Mm-hmm. Right. So, while we’re still in this early period—you said you’d done some research before you got here. Did it match your expectations?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Well, yeah. I didn’t really have a whole lot of expectations, really. I mean, I knew that eastern Washington was quite dry, but I didn’t know quite a lot about it. I can remember, I was interested in geography when I was in elementary school, even, and knowing the Plains and the desert area, generally, and the wheat-growing area here, and that sort. But not too much—very extensive. Yeah, I think I surprised the AEC people out of Argonne when I says,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> well,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> yeah, I realized it was dry and a desert. They said, well, jeepers, most people think </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">of </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Washington as</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> just</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> being green, you know, the Evergreen State, and don’t even think about it possibly being a desert out there. And when I woul</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">d talk to some of my friends back</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> in Wisconsin as I was going out, the common words were,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> oh,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> you’re gonna be out there in the mountains and you’re gonn</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">a be out there in the greenery</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> and all the evergreens. I say, no, no, I’m gonna be out there where the wheat grows in eastern Washington. Really? So I think that’s a misconception a lot of people in the eastern US have of Washington—eastern Washington, you know. They’re correct on the western side, but not on the eastern side. Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: What sort of housing did you live in when you got here?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Well, I roomed with a fellow by the name of Holland St. John. He was a teacher at Chief Joe Junior High here, and the tennis coach there. So I did that until I met my wife and got married, and we then lived in a B house—you know, the government B house, the famous [</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">UNKNOWN</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">], with</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the landlord on the other side—very friendly people, people originally from Tennessee, I believe they were. Just g</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">reat, great folks to be with. We</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> rented that until—because we got married in ’67—until I went back to Schenectady. And then when we came back, I bought a home here in </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">North Richland. Now, currently</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> live in a house that my wife basically gr</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ew up with. It was an H house. We r</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">emodeled the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">whole thing so it doesn’t look anything—all that was remained the same was the four outside walls and one wall inside. And we added on. Anyway, it was one of the government homes that I was originally renting an H house with this roommate. And then when we got married, I rented a B house</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">. And the original H house was—Holland </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">St. John was one of the fellows, and the other guy was Sherman. We had the three of us, three single guys who were using that part where they—again, the landlord was on the other side. Wonderful people. That was kind of unique</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> because when I first came and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">went looking, I thought, this</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> A house, B house, that are for rent. I was like, oh, what’s an A</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">B or an H house, C house? But it didn’t take long to figure out, okay, tha</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">t’s just the nomenclature that was</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> being used for these various types of homes.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Right. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">How did you meet your wife?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: It was actually through church. There was group in our church—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">it </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">was the Christ the King Catholic church, and it was a singles group. That’s how I met her. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">So we got married and we</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">’ve had</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> four children. They’re all grown adults now, of course. And we have seven grandkids. Six of them are girls, and finally the one that came along is a boy—the last one. But my two daughters—two of my daughters live here in town with their family. And I got a son in Seattle and another one just south o</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">f Portland in Tualatin—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">suburb of Portland. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">They all—I’m very proud of—they all went on through college. One has got a PhD, the other two of them got a master’s degree. One—and probably the one that’s doing the best, financially, has got just a master’s degree. But the three girls and a boy, and my son has got his master’s out of Purdue in engineering. My one daughter, the youngest one, has got her degree out of Gonzaga in engineering. The other one’s got her PhD in gerontology and the other’s got her master’s in early childhood development. So they’re all doing well. So I’m quite proud of them—of course, as most paren</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ts are. You know how they are, p</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">arents. They always think their kids are the greatest</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> in the world</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">. So anyway, that’s kind of where I came from—Wisconsin, and all the way out to the west coast and had not been really in the northwest prior t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">o coming out here. I had been in</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> California and some of those areas, but not in the northwest. You know, it’s an enjoyable place to live. But as a lot of people, as you know, here, some of them came for just a short time and they remain here forever. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">I married here. So that’s probably the same for me.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Part of what we’re trying to document is sort of the social life around the area, too.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Oh, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Were church activities sort of a large part of your social life at that point?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Yeah, quite a bit. And I was also involved, though—that was before I even met my wife, Yvonne. The little town I grew up in was quite a little interesting town as far as baseball. The area back there in these little towns would have their teams, and they’d play each other. So I was most familiar with baseball, and I had played baseball as a kid. So I helped one of the fellows who, just by coincidence, was also from Wisconsin, from the Milwaukie area. And he was coaching his kids in Little League baseball. So I helped out on that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Then later on, when my kids got going in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">youth </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">soccer program</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> and that was when youth soccer</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> first</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> started, I was quite active in getting it into the high schools and so on, because that was not very popular, not really—like the case of much soccer in the area. So I’m</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> on</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the Hanford High School support team—what do you call it? The—hmm, I can’t think of the title now. But anywa</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">y the supporters have their </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">support </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">efforts</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> to keep them going. So the social life was pretty much tied in with the church, but not exclusively.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> Then we—there’d be these events we’d have. We’d go over to the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">coast or d</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">o things together, as a group—h</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">iking. Not as much hiking, probably, as visiting various locations and sightseeing and that sort of thing. So that was kind of pretty much—but the housing was interesting, too, because you hear these stories of people going, and when they get home from work, the earlier days, before my time, going into t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">he wrong house because they</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> got the wrong place. But I can understand that. I mean, it was quite unique. My wife has some interesting stories about how she grew up and talking about what was family life. Their family was way back in New York. They went back once when she was about five or—no, I think seven, she said. And she had, at that time, four sisters—I mean four siblings, and another one with her mother on the way in </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">her pregnancy. And took all the—tied into the car and drove all the way back. Spent more time going and coming than they did back there. But it was a case where she—in the case that they got to know your neighbors well, it was friendly, it was safe, everybody—kids all played out. Where we’re living now, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">we’ve got just that little funny</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> park in front of our place over by the river there. Her father was an accomplished skater, so he decided when he had an opportunity to get the house along the river here, that’s</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the one</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> he wanted to take it. Not realizing that not too many winters where there’s ice on the snow. But he was the state champion in New York City on ice racing. So he’s got quite a bit of medals and stuff. So she talks about the farm—I mean, the families that would get together on holidays and whatever. It was just a different type of lifestyle. I didn’t experience that myself, but it’s interesting just hearing her talk about those things.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">O’Reagan</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">: Yeah, we’ll have to bring her in at some point. We’re</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> trying to get as many people</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> who sort of grew up here for that as well.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Yeah, she was only five years old and she came in ’47.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Okay. Yeah, we’d definitely like to interview</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> her at some point. Okay, so let’s see. You were working on the diversification stuff and then you went back to S</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">chenectackey—Ss-</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Schenectady.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Schenectady, yes. And then you came back in—I have it written down here.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: ’71.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: ’75.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: ’75, I mean. I left in ’71. April of ’71, back in ’75.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: And at that point you were working on</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">—let’s see</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> here</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">—the DOE</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> site </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">infrastructure stuff</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, or was that later</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Well, t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">hat was much later. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> was on the laboratory stuff.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: It was shortly after. About</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the first year or so was more in the personnel and that area. But then when this whole dive</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">rsification effort came forward.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> I think my master’s degree in business and all this kind of led into—and I did have quite a bit of educational experience in contract management and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">contract administration, too. I have that—I don’t know if that played a role or not, but it helped me, I know, in terms of—and it was a whole new type of contract relationship that this Consolidated Lab and the use permit and all that had. So it was unique and interesting just from that standpoint alone. So yeah, at that time up until ’71, it was there, and then came back, worked in the personnel area, in the Rickover program. That’s an interesting story, too, because Rickover was a unique individual, very unique. But his staff was made up of military men, contractor people, and DOE or AEC at that time. And there w</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">as no distinction. I mean, you would</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> have a contractor person right along with you and so on. He considered it all just one. It was very unique</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> in terms of the contractor and working relationships. But yet, what was so familiar—you could have these working—I shouldn’t say one </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">by one, it would be even office</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">s or something. But yet, he was very instrumental in saying, I don’t want any social activities between you. So as much as going to the cafeteria at noon, there was a section where the AEC people sat, and another whole section where the contractor people sat. And the military guys could be with either one, but they would—the military people were associated with AEC office—the civilian people. So in that office, there was no distinction whether you were military or a civilian. But in the contactor side, of course they were all civilians.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Is that an anti-corruption effort, or--?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Well, yeah, and I guess avoiding any kind of potential conflict of interest and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">friendships, so that you got pretty soon with somebody, well, I’ll do you a favor, and vice versa. Very, very, very strong on that sort of thing. But yet, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">he himself seemed just one team. It was just like a football team—you’re the receiver and you’re the lineman. You</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">’ve</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> got different jobs. It was unique, and there’s some interesting stories about Rickover, too, but I won’t get into those. But those are very interesting times.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Did you ever get to know any of the contractor people?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Oh, yeah. You would know them on the business side. Definitely. Oh, yeah. You’d work with them every day. Some more, because if it was in your area of responsibility, certainly, you’d be working with them. But, boy, not socially. There was no—I mean, that was a voodoo if you had any social-type activities with the contractors. That was not to his liking. That makes sense, I mean, it would just avoid any possible conflict of interest and that sort of thing. It was an interesting time. But it’s kind of like a lot of people say. I went into military,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> I’m glad, but I’m glad I’m out</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">. It’s kind of that sort of same analogy. But it was a great experience.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: What was Rickover’s title?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Rickover? Admiral.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">O’</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Reagan</span>: Admiral, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Admiral Rickover, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: So what was his exact sort of authority within the—</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: He headed up the whole nuclear navy.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Oh, I see.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: He was really up there. And in fact, when—I think—which President was it? Maybe it was Kennedy—no, it wasn’t Kennedy</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">it</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> was after</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">. Anyway, when he was giving some kind of address </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">somewhere, he recognized—I know, I’m Rickover’s boss, but really we’re all—Rickover’s my boss. And that happened with Schlesinger, too, when he was appointed the head of the Atomic Energy Commission, when he was there. He says, oh, yeah. And he made the same kind of remark. I don’t know if it was those exact words. But Rickover was a very powerful individual in terms of his authority. He was kind of all b</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">y himself, because, again, the nuclear n</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">avy was unique, and so he was a brilliant man. There was no question about</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> it. He would pick just the top-notch-</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">quality technical people that he could to run his program. The safety was so important to him. The wellbeing of all the military people, and the people who were in the submarines and that sort of thing. So he was really great. But he had a unique way of operations, there was no question about that. He was a strong, strong individual.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: So this period you were working in personnel is also, I understand, the period where you started having more women and minorities being hired on at the Hanford area.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: That</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> is true. There</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> was a big emphasis—the period—and following my part of the end there, but in that timeframe of particularly on the college campuses and recruiting minorities and women, which is good. But there was extreme interest in finding qualified minorities and women. There was certainly emphasized that it was—and that’s great. I mean, I go back and think in my thesis for my master’s degree in business administration, and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">I made some statement then, makes</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> me sound almost like a</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">n</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> anti-feminist now. But I was saying we really got to get more women into the technical side, but I wasn’t thinking far enough. We really think a lot—we don’t have many women technicians and stuff. So I was—at that time—thinking, oh, gosh,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> that</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> they could be technicians. And not even thinking ab</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">out being engineers, you know, g</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">e</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">tting their PhD in engineering. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ut at least, let’s—so I started out just—it wasn’t a matter of discrimination, where I said they should be technicians, because there were no—but I said, jeepers, let’s work on that. I had much of my emphasis—because my emphasis in my PhD was the shortage of technical people in the country. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">That was after Sputniks and some of those things going. We really needed development, work hard and see what we can do to get the people interested in getting into the math and sciences and that area. Some people kind of looked at me, you want women to be technicians or something? Yeah, but—you know. Now, I think, boy, I’d be discriminated—I mean, not discriminated, but considered, yeah, you’re very limited in </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">your scope. You should be</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> much broader than that. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Yeah, that was a time when the Sputniks went off and these others, and we were quite behind and Kennedy wanted to get to the moon. And that, though, when I was in, was quite a bit later than that. Not quite a bit, but somewhat later, and the emphasis on trying to get minorities and women as much as we possibly could.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Mm-hmm. So it didn’t—how—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">did it shape your work on personnel at that point, I guess--?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Well, I don’t know if it shaped it so much, but back to my word of emphasis, to see if we really seek out qualified people. And not that they needed, necessarily, to have had extensive training, but look at the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ir</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> overall education experience and how well they were doing in school. In other words, that they were capable of picking up some of the technical</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">nd whether they had that already knowledge was not quite as important as looking at what’s their basic—I don’t know, I guess I could say basic intellect—but their ability to really take on some of these things. It was not hard to find that. I mean, that doesn’t—I don’t want to imply that the women or minorities didn’t have that. They certainly did. But I think a lot of them, maybe themselves, didn’t realize that they really could do that, that there was no reason why they couldn’t. </span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: I was speaking with a reactor operator in a previous interview who had a degree, I think, in</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> forestry or something non-sort-of-</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">nuclear, but was still able to become a reactor operator. Was that sort of common that you saw, too, people moving into new fields to get on the Hanford site?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: That was not unusual, no. And that was particularly true—and I noticed you ta</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">lk I was being on—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">with Rickover’s submarine program—we would hire then people who—and that happened out here awful lot—wh</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">o had gone through the nuclear n</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">avy and were nuclear operators. We had a number of those people that didn’t want to stay in the Navy, but we hired on his staff—on Rickover’s staff—in our local office there at Schenectady. Now, that was a small office. The office was not very big. It was relatively small. But we hired a number of those people, and they were good, because they—and many of them had not gone to college yet. They got out of the Navy, they went to college, and then came back. I mean, I remember recruiting two or three or four of those types. And we recruited basically around northeast area, because we were in Schenec</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">tady, in some of the schools around</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> there. Plattsburg, up in northern—which is a civil engineering school up in norther New York, and a number of areas there where we would find students who—not a lot of them, but who had gone back after they got out of service and didn’t want to make it a career, and got their degrees. Some would be in the technical fields; some would not be, necessarily. But most that we hired had degrees in some form of engineering or science or whatever.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Okay. So you were working with the nuclear navy program after you got back from Schenectady—pronouncing it again.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: No, it was at Schenectady I did the nuclear program.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Oh, I see</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, I see</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">It’s at Schenectady. So I was here, then went to Schenectady for four years—not quite four years—three-and-three-quarters. And then back here again. And that’s when the diversification effort came about, when I came—no, no, no,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> I’ll</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> take that back. That was back when I got back into some of the other Battelle work again, after I came back. The diversification was prior to going to Schenectady.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Okay. So then were you working for Battelle or were you still working for AEC?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: No, I always worked for the government, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">always. It was AEC, and then</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> a short period of time, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">it w</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">as—what did we call it, even? There</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> was a two-year period between AEC and Department of </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Energy</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Research</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> and Development Administration, I think. Yeah, that was what it was called—Research and Development Administration. And then it became—Congress passed it and developed the Department of Energy. And when they developed the Department of Energy, it expanded a little bit and took in, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">like</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Bonneville</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> Power out here was part of that, and a number of activities like that. More than just atomic energy, and that’s when it got a little more involved in</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> laboratories and other forms of—quite a bit. Whether it be climate—today it’s climate change, or climate sciences, as it’s called, and other types of activity. More than just the nuclear itself. But there’s a misconception</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> when </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">I say nuclear itself, this, as you’ve probably learned and know, that there’s all kinds of work that dealt with biology and the uptake of radioisotopes and all of that sort of thing. And we had the animal farm out here with the smoking dogs and the miniature pigs—miniature swine, and all of that activity. And then when I was administering the Battelle program and the Pacific Lab, I was also involved in a lot of interagency work. So I was—in fact, one of my responsibilities there was working with all the other agencies in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">interagency agreements. And that meant </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">that </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">works like NASA and National Science—al</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">though they didn’t have a lot</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">—the NRC, and EPA and others would have work done at the lab. And that would be not DOE work or AEC work, but it was their particular </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">responsibility. But they had the cap</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ability and knowledge out here to do that</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">. So there was a lot of that. In fact, I was involved in the whole setup of the LIGO</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> facility out here, working </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">with the National Science Foundation. And they had no knowledge of this—had to kind of guide them by hand as to what kind of arrangements they w</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ould have between the two agencies</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> for them to use the Department of Energy land out here and their facility and all of that sort of thing. So from very early on, I spent somewhat—a fair amount of my time working with the National Science Foundation to getting the establishment of the LIGO facility out here. That was rather a long interesting experience, too, and all the unique th</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ings that went on doing that. So</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> I just have this—even though I’m not a scientist or engineer by training, I have this kind of innate interest in science and engineering. That was what was so exciting about administering the lab contract, to see the whole variety of activity that goes on out there at the lab. And even, I think, the majority of the citizens of Richland and Tri-Cities do not understand, fully, the broad spectrum of knowledge and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">exposure to all elements of the nature of science and technology that’s available out here to the lab, and what all these experts they have in those all wide spectrum of activity. </span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: In your experience, how kid of secretive </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">was</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> any of this work? Was it all kind of out there? Was it kind of compartmentalized?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Well, there was a lot of secret-type st</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">uff, but there wasn’t as much of</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> that, I don’t think—now, I didn’t get involved too much in the production—in the plutonium production. Because the laboratory wasn’t so directly involved in that. That was the big load from the local office, was producing the plutonium, getting that back, and doing all of that sort of thing. The lab was supporting that, and doing that in the nuclear aspects of nuclear science, but there was a lot—an awful lot of work t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">hat was not secret. Now, they</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> also were</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, though,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> heavily involved in many of the secret-type stuff. That relates primarily to their strong capability in detection—detecting things. I mean, you’re probably aware that the first moon rocks that came from the moon were here at the site, at the lab, to analyze those, to look at them, what was all made up of? The very first, first exposure to the moon rocks was right down here that Federal Building, anywhere in the United S</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ates that they were shown. That was quite a deal, too. So they have this tremendous capability. Th</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">e labs were one of the first—this</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> lab—the first to detect that </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Saddam </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Hussein had used chemical warfare for the Kurds back there, and that was way back time. Tremendous, and some interesting stories of how they collected some of this stuff and how they got these samples. I don’t know if we want to get into it. It was really, really interesting activities in that sort of stuff. Some of the things—it’s not classified anym</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ore, but </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">the people out at the lab or </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">some of these guys</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> would go over to Hong Kong, and they’d just brush against somebody </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">to get a hair off of somebody that </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">[UNKNOWN</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">] just get a sample. Or a little dust and dirt came off their shoe, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">they</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> might pick it up or something. Just the most minute quantities of things, and being ab</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">le to analyze and determine. This</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> laboratory out here was the first to decide how big the bombs are that China was dropping, to get the size of those through the air samples and all of that. There’s just this broad knowledge, or capability</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> I should say, in detection activities out here. It’s just amazing. And they’ve kept that up in the same way with their r</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">adioisotope program—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">the medical isotopes program. So much of that that many people don’t realize of all the spinoffs and benefits that have come from the knowledge that they gained. The first CD was developed out here at the lab. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Much of that. I’m really interested in reading, now, Steve Ashby’s reports bimonthly in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Tri-City Herald</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> about some of the activities going on at the lab. And I </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">miss</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> that. I used to get real knowledge about what they’re working on. Of course, it’</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">s been 18 or 20 years sinc</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">e</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> I’</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ve done that, but that was always fascinating, some of this advanced science and some of this stuff that was really—and a lot of it was development and a lot of it wasn’t. But they’d run into some dead-ends. They’d later on pick it up again, somebody would discover something else, and they’d finally go forth with it.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: When did it become a national lab? Do you remember?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: God</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, I don’t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> remember the year that</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> was</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">. God, I should know that.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: I’m sure we can look it up.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Yeah, we can look it up.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Was that while you were working?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Oh, yeah, yeah. It was—god, why should—because that was a big event. And we were pushing quite well at the time to try to get that done. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Yeah. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Golly, that just escapes me. I’ve got to—now that you mention it, I’ve got to go back</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> and check that out and see when</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> it was.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: What was involved in that?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Well, it was basically—I don’t want to call it a political decision, but it was basically, I think, recognizing the scope of activity that the labs were involved with. There wasn’t a great urge by the Washington, DC people or any to readily accept that title. I mean, it means a lot. So it was really a lot of background in what the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ir</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> involvement, and what type of work were they involved with, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">and what depth</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> were they involved with and what types—and really focusing a lot on the basic science and that sort. And that’s where I think this lab was a little late</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">r than others, because this lab, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">up until the later times, was more of a support lab on production activities and not quite so much in basic. Now there was some basic on the real basic physics and something to deal wit</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">h reactor operations. But they </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">evolved and grew into this more basic science in a broad spectrum. I think that was one of the criteria. Now, I wasn’t involved in that decision at all. But my understanding is one of the criteria of establishing is that they got a well-established basic science capability. It’s not just specialized in one area or something. That’s where I think this lab was one of the later ones to be</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> recognized as a national lab, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ecause they built that up. And one of the things, too, that there wasn’t much knowledge of, because the production was such a secret thing, that that did</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">n’t get much publicity or get</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> papers written about it, and so on. So unfortunately the people that were working on that didn’t get the opportunity to have their findings and whatever presented to the whole world at national conferences and things like that. And that was also true, by the way, in Rickover’s program. Rickover was very cognizant—he was so afraid that the communists had this and that. So that was one of the real issue—there was basically almost the technical people at the capital laboratory</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, the Knolls Atomic Power Lab</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> in Schenectady</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, almost unionized because they really felt that they were being shortchan</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ged. They couldn’t give papers</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> at technical conferences and stuff because Rickover was always afraid that you might reveal something that w</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">as highly secret about </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">how to run a reactor and all that kind of stuff. So I think some of that same sort of information or background was kind of holding this lab back</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> because they just didn’t get the publicity in the scientific world, that their discoveries and their knowledge and their ex</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">periments and so on were well-known</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">. And I think that helped, because the people in DC who were more knowledgeable of that found that to be a quality that was great for being recognized as a national lab. But a national </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">lab, again, was the idea</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> with broad spectrum of research. So that’s my take of it. You may talk to somebody else and they probably have a whole different presentation in terms of why or how and what was all involved. But just being on sort of the sidelines when that happened, that seemed to me to be what was the key point in helping determine. But there was some political push, no question. I mean, Maggie again, and Scoop—I think that was when they were on, and some of those. Why are you shortchanging us out there in the northwest? And we don’t have—that was the other thing, there was no national lab in the northwest. There was Livermore down in California, Los Alamos, Oak Ridge and Brookhaven. But why are you guys leaving us out in the north? And that was more form—not the science or technology, but</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> well, don’t treat us as second class citizens. Our lab </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">up there is as good as yours. So</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> there was some of that out there</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> too.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Did it impact your work, when it changed?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: No, I don’t think so. Well, I shouldn’t say that. One of the things </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">that did happen in that regard—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">and I mentioned earlier about these interagency agreements a</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">nd the capabilities of the lab—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">that stimulated more of that. Because I think being—once you’re recognized as a national lab, it just goes along with the credibility that might be associated with the work they’re doing. So I think that resulted in more of this interagency work with the various other g</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">overnment agencies. What it</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> also did—and that was probably the most key element—is bringing in the tie with universities and so on. That was really—and locally, here, that was one of the interests of the people with the lab. They would really have liked to get more—and by the fact being recognized national lab, allowed the universities, and particularly some of the ones heavily involved in the science and engineering, would tend to favor going to a national laboratory. And the research that they were doing in cooperation with the lab itself was more significant</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> more meaningful to them. So I think that was probably one of the biggest benefits of becoming a national lab.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> Yet Battelle </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">as an organization bac</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">k in Columbus and others, t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">hey had a good reputation already of working closely with universities and so on. I mean, they were a research organization. And I think that also helped, too, because Battelle was operating this, and so the people who made these decisions realized that you have a topnotch research company—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">foundation</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> there, t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">hat that’s their whole world. So</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> I think that also helped in getting it. And certainly the lab pushed for that. There was no question</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> a</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">bout it. They wanted to be recognized as a national lab. So there was a combination of these things, I think they all kind of helped and worked together and made it happen.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: So when was it that your work with PNNL shifted over to the next role?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Oh, yeah. Well</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, let’s see. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">hat was probably in more the early</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> ‘90s. Where—yeah—because—yeah—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">early ‘90s is when I start going in there. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">So most of my career was with P</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">NL and</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> some of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> labor relations. But early ‘90s, when I got into the infrastructure deal and doing all of that, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> then</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> later the last five years in the congressional and governmental relations activity, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Could you tell us about the infrastructure work?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Yeah, that was quite interesting. That was frustrating. And by frustrating I mean, there was always—well, let’s not fi</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">x it until it’s broke. Oh, gosh, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">we used to have some—because it was still working. And particularly that was more emphasis as the role of the site here of not producing plutonium anymore—well, then do we need to keep it? Let</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">’s see if</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> it</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> can</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> limp along. Well, what it ended up, in my opinion, a lot of times, we paid a lot more by trying to fix things afterward. We didn’t really have a good preventative maintenance program. Finally got sort of </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">a preventative maintenance, but—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">it </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">was tough. Because there was always </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">this thing—there was always a great need of doing this thing, and jeepers, we can’t use the dollars there; it’ll still work for a while. I didn’t have the responsibility for the day-to-day operations of it. That wasn’t mine. Mine was the upgrades and the ca</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">pital equipment and all that. Whether</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> we need a new fire station or whatever it may be. And jeepers, the thing was just limping along on a thread, and something would break. But then we ended </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">up spending a whole lot more. That</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> was somewhat frustrating. And the guys that I worked with on the contractor sid</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">e had the same experience. But s</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ome managers were a little more cognizant of the need to do that than others. And safety—the way we could get things done—[PHONE CHIMES]—was safety more. Because if we could show that there was safety-related issues that went along with it, it was easier to get it appropriated or funded, rather than say, well, it’ll still go along. And that’s the way we often would get something funded, was, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">could</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> show that we really don’t want to jeopardize the safety of the employees or the workers and that sort of thing. But it was not simple. It was pretty difficult. It was always kind of bucking the tide for funding.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Right. That reminds me—so, you were still working at PNNL when the—</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Well, I wasn’t at PNNL; it was DOE.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Right, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">yeah, okay. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ut back during the time when sort of the reactors were shutting down and the transition to sort of amelioration and cleanup got started. Is that correct?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Yeah, but that most of the time was with PNNL, still. But it was in ’89</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, is</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> when the real decision was made. So it was shortly after that that I got into</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the infrastructure and that’s where it became hard then. Because we weren’t operating with the mission anymore. Yet you knew darn well that cleanup is going to be here for a long, long time, and why not get these things going so you don’t spend t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">wice as much starting all over </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">new, with something when you could just really do some work at that time to keep this thing alive? This thing, being—whether it be a sewer plant or whether it be a steam plant or fire</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">station or electro distribution system or a railroad or whatever it might be. Because</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> at least I could see</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, it was cheaper because cleanup</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">’s gonna last for a while and you need this infrastructure whether your mission is producing the plutonium or whether it’s cleanup. Soon we got </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">some</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> of the people </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">saying</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, yeah, you’re right. But the guys who were doing the cleanup then, too, saying, oh, god, we’ve got so much work to do, we can’t afford to do this. It’ll last another year or two. Let’s fix it next year or upgrade it next year. The evaporator out there is a good example. They finally did it. But there was things earlier they probably could have done to increase its capability and do a better job. And finally they say, yeah, I guess that’s right, we should do it now because we’ll need that thing for god knows how long yet.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: What was it like living in this area around ’89 when the shift happened?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Well, it was a surprise, I think, to a lot of people. Kind of like, oh, gosh, here we go again. That’s when this whole activity—and I wasn’t involved in, but with the B Reactor Museum Association really got its birth when they were saying, we’re shutting down the reactors and going there. But the attitude was, or</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the feelings was that, jeepers, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">it was just doomsday basically. And not fully understanding the scope of work that needed to be done in the cleanup area. It was very little attention being paid to the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> depth of that need at the time.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> I don’t think there was much knowledge—excuse me—or basically understanding of how important and significant that’s going to be. So it was a change in times, it certainly was.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Do you think a lot of—or were people sort of in your area worried about their jobs? Or was that, you</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> felt</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, sort of separate from the plutonium production?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Well, I–y</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">eah, I wasn’t too involved in that sort of aspect. But, yes, the community had a concern. And that kind of coincides with </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">the big problem out there that’s now Energy Northwest, but the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">shutdown of those new </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">power reactors. So that kind of came together at the same time, and that was really a shock for the community. It was—you know, a lot of people would leave and say, jeepers, I got to go find something else before I don’t have a job at all.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Right. So in the last couple of years before retirement, you were working on the congressional relations?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Yeah, yeah, about five years.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">O’Re</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">agan</span>: Can you tell us about that</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> work?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Plahuta: Yeah, about five years prior to</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> retirement. Five, six—something like that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> I don’t remember exactly when.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> That was very interesting, too, and you got another scope of</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> how things got done. I got to </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">a point where I was having daily discussions with particularly Patty Murray’s staff and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">prior to that, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Doc Hasting’s staff—staff members. Not that much with the senators or the congressmen themselves, but primarily their staff, and working with them. And somewhat with the state</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> offices, but not extensively. And then more with the local communities—the mayors—the Hanford communities group there. That was quite regularly—and the emphasis that we placed then, I’m not sure still exists, but really wanted to tie in closely to having the local government—the mayors and commissioners and so on—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">knowledgeable</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">of </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">what’s going on out here at the site. So there wouldn’t be these sudden surprises. That was the role that John</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> Wagner at the time</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> was interested in, and that’s when he asked me if I would be</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> willing to</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">—it was a new </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">position he was establishing. He just wanted to maintain a close relationship with what’s going on at the site, and I </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">don’t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> know if that’s—I shouldn’t say—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">I don’t know if it’s the case now, but I don’t think it’s quite the same as what John had in mind and what I d</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">id for those five, six years. So</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> when I left, then, they kind of—when I retired, it kind of was sitting in just ebbs there—ups and downs—and it’s probably back more to that way. I really don’t know.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> Sure.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: But shortly after that, too, then, I got on the Hanford Advisory Board. So I had kind of a knowledge about what was going on at the site. So I was very active in the Hanford Advisory Board for quite a few years—for like 15 years or so. But I got so much involved in the B </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Reactor thing that I said, gee—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">I didn’t feel like to just go to the meetings and not really contribute a whole lot. So I thought I’d just give up and retire at that point in time, and I found someone who I know real well who’s capable to take my place. I was representing the county most of the time—sort of an alternate representative for the City of Richland first,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> but then later for the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">county</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> most all the time. I </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">wanted</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> to be sure that—and I did find someone who was very, very, well-involved and informative to take my spot there for the county </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">commission</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> now.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: So </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Okay. So before we move on, can you tell me—what was the Hanford Advisory Board?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Oh, that was established—gosh, I can’t remember exactly when, but it’s made up of about 30 different entities—representatives of those entities. It’s statewide and it includes some of the Oregon people, the tribes are on it, most of the government—city governments and county </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">governments</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> are represented. There’s total—like I say, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">about</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> 31. They’re a formal advisory group to the Atomic Energy—Atomic Energy? I’m really going back now—to the DOE to uncover and discuss various elements of ongoing work. And you probably see quite a bit in the paper</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> that</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the Hanford Advisory Board meets on a monthly basis—no, I shouldn’t say that—about every other </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">m</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">onth. But then they’ve got committees </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">underneath of it like </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">the Tanks Waste Committee and the River Plateau </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Committee</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">—there’s five different </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">committees</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">. I chaired a couple of those </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">committees</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> a couple times, and vice </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">chair</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> and so on. And they provide some advice—written advice to the—and it’s—oh, I shouldn’t say it’s just DOE. There’s three </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">parties to this. It’s the State Ecology Department, the EPA, Environm</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ental Protection Agency, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> DOE. So the three agencies are involved in this. They provide—can be anything regarding to the Vit Plant out here now, the tank vapor things—so many different activities. They write formal advice and discussion. It represents all sides, basically. Those that are pro/con, what are the proper words, or whatever you want to say. But it’s a wide representation of the general—not local community necessarily, but the state concerns</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">nd </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">there’s people from Seattle on that, from down in Salem, Oregon, and around the area. That’s been in existence—gosh, I don’t remember when—it was probably around ’90 or something like that, ’91. It’s been—maybe not that long—but it’s been quite active for quite some time.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: That reminds me—I meant to ask, when you were working on the site infrastructure, you mentioned some work with the tribes and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">cultural resources. Can you tell us</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> about that?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Yeah. I personally didn’t get too directly involved. I had a person working</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> for me by the name of Charles Pasternak</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">—he has since died</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">. He was very, very knowledgeable. He was an archaeology-type thing, too, but he was a forensic expert-type thing, and was very, very closely working with the tribes. Well-respected by the tribes. He was </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">invited into some of those long</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">house ceremonies and that sort of thing. So he worked on that. He was the one that was the primary person for me. I got into a lot of the discussions and so on, but for the day-to-day activities, he was really tops. And would work with the SH</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">P</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">O</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> office—the State Historical office in Olympia on stuff—on these writings and stuff. So it was interesting. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">But I didn’t get daily involvement there. I had enough in my other hands to ta</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ke care of. But he was just ace</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> number one on </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">doing</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> that. So I got familiar with the process and the operations and what the issues were and that sort of thing. But that was informative for me. He was sort of a mentor to me, to be honest, though, in that respect. Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Do you know sort of how—one of the things I’m also curious about is the development of cultural resources and local efforts to preserve culture, preserve memory. On the DOE side, I know, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">today that’s done through a contract with the Mission Support Alliance. Do you happen to know when that sort of contracting began, or was DOE sort of also contracting while also working on it?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: No, DOE was working primarily at the laboratory </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">out </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">here at Battelle. That’s where—and that’s partly how I got into it, I think, although I wasn’t administering to Battelle Lab at that time. But that all function was under the laboratory. It was after I left that Mission Support Alliance came into </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">existence</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> here. And then they took over a lot of that support type activity. But, no, the laboratory, and Jim Shatters was involved, Mona Wright was involved out there for the lab. Paul Harvey was—not Paul Harvey—Dave Harvey was involved in some of that out there, alo</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ng with the history. And Michel</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">e Gerb</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">er on the historic—the Hanford h</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">istory type stuff. So that was all with Battelle. And then that moved it, I think, when Mission Support Alliance—and that was after, basically, after I left. So that was there. But, no, there was quite an interest—not as much as there is today—again, that’s a fault, I can say, of us who were in the department at that time. We really we</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">re</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">n’t on board extensively on the history protection stuff. Although the contractor, Battelle out there, and others were doing that. But I don’t think DOE was following. And then that’s when I discovered that, gosh, we really have a responsibility here. And that’s w</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">hen I hired this Charles Pasterna</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">k who came over from GSA and had been doing that sort of thing</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> down</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> in Phoenix, Arizona. So I said, we really need—so I hired him. And as I say, he was—that was his livelihood so to speak. And that’s when I think we began then to pick up on that sort of thing. I had an extreme interest in doing it and I got to know Mona Wright real well at Battelle. Tom Marceau was involved in that out there. And Tom can gi</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ve you the whole history there with the laboratory at that time.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: What sor</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">t of day-to-day work—was it </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Charles Pasternak?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Pasternak, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: What sort of work was he doing? Do you know?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Well, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">it</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> was this whole cultural resources area. He was, as I say, an archaeology type and that was his training. So he di</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">d all of</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the work </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">a lot </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">with SHPO up there when we got into some of these areas wher</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">e they needed—we needed to know </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">the 106 process, and all of that sort of thing. So Charles was our main person to follow that. But I had the interest, also, of John Wagner, the manager, even though I wasn’t playing that congressional role at that time. Because he, too, I think, recognized that we needed to do a little bit more there. And in fact—I don’t know if you’re familiar—but he’s </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">one of Cindy Kelly, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">who’s with the Atomic Heritage Foundation---he’s one of the board members there. He had really an extreme interest in preserving the history. As much as he tried, he couldn’t get headquarters people—they</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> always</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> told him, John, you</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> go back and tell them we’re no</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">in the museum business. And that’s what the people here woul</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">d be hearing all the time. But J</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ohn himself was really interested in doing all that. I sat in meetings with him at </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">headquarters</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> where </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">he’d really push hard. And they’d push back, that’s not our—it was their responsibility, but they’d just, yeah, okay, but we don’t want to spend a lot of time on that. So that was—but locally, I think we did well. I think we did very well at pushing that along and I got to give contract—credit to people like Tom and Mona and others out here o</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">n the contractor sit</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">e who even pushed us a little bit sometimes. Which was good. That’s necessary. </span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Could you sort of sketch out for us your idea of sort of the history of </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">efforts to commemorate the site or</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the work that was done on Hanford? In terms of, up through the B Reactor Museum Association--?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Yeah. Well, my interest was, again, as I learned more about it, was let’s preserve this history of this </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">site</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, because it’s very unique. It’s really unique. And I </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">had to avoid sort of a conflict of interest of joining BRMA while I was an employee of the department. So I was interested, though, in knowing what they were doing and I was in agreement with them and was very supportive when I could be in some of</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">their activities. But </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">shortly</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> after I retired, then—not immediately, but not too long after, I did join as a member of the B Reactor Museum. That was in—well, quite a while later, because it in 20</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">0</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">5, so it was quite a while later that I actually joined them. That was—the more I learned and found out about the uniqueness of the B Reactor and its history and its knowledge and its importance, I really, really got heavily involved. And that’s eventually, here, like a year a</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">nd a half ag</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">o—I finally got off</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">the Hanford Advisory Board because I was spending so much time—more time on that—and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">not feeling </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">I was really contributi</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ng a whole lot. I mean, I’</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">d make my comments and so on at the general meetings, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">but</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> with regard to drafting formal </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">advice</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> and all that, which I was quite active in earlier, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">then jeepers, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">get somebody else who has the time and so on</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> and I’d devote more time to the B Reactor Museum Association. But, again, I’m, as well as my interest in science and technology, although not being trained in that area, I’m sort of a history buff. As a kid</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> on</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, I could list the order of the Presidents of the United States, I remember. Zing, zing, zing. I can’t do it any </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">longer. I’d have</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> to stop and think about it, get it mixed </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">u</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">p a little bit. But history was </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">another</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> area that I was kind of interested in. I like to read a lot of history books and that sort of thing. I think that was stimulated by my second year in college in a class I took from a history professor who was just interesting. And what I found so interesting about him is he said you can read the book, but let me give you</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> some stuff, some of the trivia-</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">type stuff that he knew about some of the personalities and some of the things that he had learned through his research and understanding </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">about</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the true natures of some of these people and what unique features or attributes they had. That, I think, stimulated my interests even more. But it was in existence prior to that as well, but it just enhanced it a bit. Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: What sort of stuff has BRMA worked on in the time you’ve been with them?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Oh, gosh. We have done extensive amount of work on some of the modeling to bring up some of the models that we have out there that can describe and portray better the actual activities in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">instruments</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> and the equipment in the area there itself. We did that. And of course our big effort was to make it a national park. That’s where most of our time, and that’s where I really got involved with and again working with the other two sites, Oak Ridge and Los Alamos with Cindy Kelly back in American—I mean the Atomic Heritage </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Foundation</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">. We’d have monthly phone calls on proposing various kind of language that we’d like to see in the act and working with the Congress. My experience working with congressional staffers helped a little bit there, I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> but so did Cindy, who—and I first knew Cindy, basically when she was in DOE—worked for DOE in the headquarters in </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">cultural resource area and all of that area. So that’s how I got to </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">know</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> Cindy. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">then </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">later on, we kind of met again, then, when we were working on the B Reactor. So the biggest contribution, I think</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> was the effort from the very beginning. B Reactor was—not B Reactor, but the BRMA association—B Reactor Museum Association—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">was </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">established formally in ’91, but was actually in ’90 or so when it began to formally—and how that all happened was</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> that</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> there was</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> in existence here at the time—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">we called it the Tri-Cities or maybe they were Richland—I don’t know—Technical Society. And that was made up of all the various tech—whether it be electrical engineers, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">or</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> civil engineers, the chemical engineers, nuclear engineers, the health physicists and so on. They had this net group where there was things in common and commonality. When the announcement was made that they were going to get out of the production </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">business and was going to start cocooning the reactors, the guy says, god, we got to preserve B. The history that goes with it. And I wasn’t part of that, then. But they organized a committee then to discuss further. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">that’s</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> when they decided to establish this organization, the B Reactor Museum Association</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> with the sole purpose to preserve for future generations the history and preserve the facili</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ty itself for public access and—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">for preservation and public access. Well, our mission is basically accomplished by g</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">etting it into the National P</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ark. That was really keen. And we still have interests; we want to go along and develop the park and do all of those additional types of things and perhaps even taking on efforts to preserve a bit of the history of T Plant as well. Because that is identified i</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">n the park, and of course the pre-</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Manhattan </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Project history there with the farms and that sort of thing. But that’s been the key emphasis all along, was to preserve and make it public access to B Reactor. So there was a lot of work and working with the Department of Energy and others to clean it up and get it in shape where you could have these tours. I think it was 2009 or something when they started the tours—the more public tours. But I was involved earlier in that. There was still tours, but the tours were maybe for special groups or activities or maybe a college chemistry class or physics class or something would be coming to see it. Or some of the elected officials or could be any special tours, I think. And then it got gradually working into recognizing that there would be—in fact, when I left in ’98, there was just a memorandum of agreement type between the BRMA organization and Westinghouse the contractor and DOE, what the roles and responsibilities would be. At that time, BRMA would be willing to provide docents—volunteer docents at the time, and do that sort of thing for these various tours. So I was sort of a tour coordinator then, to find out what audiences—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">there </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">would be a difference between some</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">one who was real </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">knowledgeable</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> about the reactor, and ot</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">hers who knew nothing about it—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">want to know what the audience would be so we’d pick the right type of tour guide and a person who was more familiar with it, who were comfortable with those kind of tours. So there got to be a fair number of those. But then it formally established, then, when the DOE started </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">saying</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> we will offer these public tours. In 2009 is when it really blossomed into much more greater things, when they announced the public tours and so on. These others were more tours where people would request and ask for them, we’d try to fit them in. And there were fair number—it got to be a fair number of those, and I </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">think</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> that’s what convinced DOE that we need to do something, maybe more publicly. And more recogn</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ition of its responsibility in Historic Preservation A</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ct—you know, the Department’s responsibility there. So that’s what we did. But our efforts were then to, as I say, get the thing cleaned up, get it presented well, and have some of these displays and some of the models and some</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">one</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> that work</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">s</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> close with Cindy Kelly at the Atomic Heritage Foundation who had this interest and this whole establishment she has, that foundation to preserve many of the history aspects of the Atomic Energy Commission and Department of Energy and its role in the Manhattan Project.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> So</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> that was kind of where</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> our focus was</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, was</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the preservation and public access and the models that help educate. And also, and we’re pushing more on that now, is educating students and so on. And we’re </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">holding </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">more and more tours for students, all the way down to the fourth grade, but particularly interested in high school and college students that want to learn more about that. That’s where we’re focusing more now, on interpretation and education and emphasis more on the T Plant. BRMA does the B Reactor Museum</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> doesn’t necessarily relate to the T Plant, but still, that all was part of the Manhattan Project. So our focus is more on the Manhattan Project itself and</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> all of</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> its elements. Which, T Plant is included—the first separatio</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ns plant. Again, amazing plant and amazing work that’s been done there to get it initiated and started and working properly right off the bat, working. So that’s kind of the background there on my involvement. It’s been—the last three, four, five years has </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">been</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> heavily involved in primarily the effort on the Manhattan historic—the Manhattan Project Historical </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Park, to get it established, along with the other two sites. Some of the othe</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">rs in DOE, as well, the Dayton P</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">roject had decided not to really join pushing on that, but they—and we had meetings ye</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">sterday again with some of the P</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">arks people to have things—a commonality—basic common understanding of the whole project and kind of presented the same way at all three sites. But then each site t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">aking on its own specific role, ours </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">being the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> specific—the development of the plutonium and B Reactor. Los Alamos, more like the weapons development and that sort of thing. Oak Ridge is supplying t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">he enriched uranium and those aspects. They all have</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> a more defined role in the broader picture of the Manhattan </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Project</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">. </span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Right. Did you ever get any sort of security—when you were making these models, I know there was a lot of sensitivity about export control and classification and all </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">that, especially with models. Did</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> you ever get any sort of push back on that?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Not on the models. But what we did do, and that was a surprise, even to the local DOE, I guess they knew about it, but they should have—the reactor graphite that was left over, we claimed that. And thanks for thinking of Gene Woodruff, one of our members who’s a graphite</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> expert, and I mean Gene can go and say, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">oh, that was made a</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">t Union Carbide. Scratch this one—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">that was made somewhere else. That guy. And I remember working with DOE in the laboratory—Gene was one of the top experts in the world. Again, we’ve got experts here—people don’t recognize—of the world. When there would be these </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">inte</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">rnational meetings or [UNKNOWN</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">] Gene Woodruff was a guy to go all over the w</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">orld talking about the qualities</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> and the purities of graphite and how it’s made and all of that sort of stuff. He’s just top</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">notch. So anyway, Gene and a guy out at the lab—gosh, I forget his name right now, right off the bat—worked with our people in DOE headquarters’ national security to get us the—or to give us the excess graphite was there with the restrictions that it should be used for souvenirs and</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> that</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> we’re not to resell it. Of course, now there’s not quite the problem, but we didn’t want the Iranians or others to see how this graphite was made and all the purity and all that kind of stuff. Although I don’t understand, because you could still probably decide that if you had a souvenir made out of a piece of that graphite, anyway. But anyway that was—they just didn’t want a big block of this stuff given—sold or anything to someone. So we said, ah, well, we won’t—chop it up or use it in pieces or whatever. So we made that graphite model and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">that was done going through the whole national security system that said it was okay for us to have that, rather than dump it out here at ERDF—out in the disposal facility. So we got all of the remaining what we call old reactor—that’s the B, D and F—that’s the same type of graphite that was in those original three reactors. We got that as well as some processing tubes and we’re in the process of determining how we make souvenirs for the tours that come through in the park. And reminder, we already have what we call—we have these boron balls, too, that are used in the process to help scram a reactor if you need to. We’ve got those, and we’ve got th</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">e process tubes. So we also sell</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> a little vial of these boron balls, and we collected the dust that we did when we made our graphite model and putting that into little vials. So it’s rather unique to this site. We’re looking at other ways to use some of these and what kind of doodads or gadgets can we make for souvenirs. Because</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> we find that working with the P</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">arks people</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> is—oh, yeah, people</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> there’s something unique about the site, they’d like to take a souvenir back. So that may be some of our support, maybe, to keep continuing and give us </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">our source of income there that—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">we’re not a great achiever of gathering a whole lot of money, but it does—and we work more on these models and stuff, working with Cindy Kelly and others on grants and that sort of thing to get our money to build these—make these various videos that we’ve made and these vignettes that goes along with when you’re visiting out there and that sort of thing. So that’s gonna b</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">e kind of emphasizing with the P</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">arks people how we can best do this and how we can get that accomplished.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Can you tell me about coordinating with the other sites?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Yeah. That’s—we’ve had several meetings with the other sites. There’s, again, another entity. I don’t know if you’</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">re familiar with the E</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">CA, the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Energy Communities Al</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">liance? That was established by</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the former city manager here, Joe King, who established that. And that—I’ll just talk a minute what that is. That’s made up of the sites where DOE has locations: Savannah River, Oak Ridge, Brookhaven—you know, all nine sites or so, that would go forth in more of a lobbying effort to DOE headquarters on funding and what the needs and the issues and problems are there, as far as the local communities. And many of these were in common. I mean, there were particular areas might be unique to one site or the other, but the ot</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">hers would all support that. But then</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> also there’s things in common that they really wanted to get DOE to recognize that they got to pay attention to. So that was established quite some time ago. The other communities, then, kind of had a basis on which to start on this national park. And particularly Oak Ridge and Los Alamos. So we would get—the three of us would often have—and Cindy Kelly with </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Atomic</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> Heritage Foundation would </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">kind</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> of coordinate these—it was almost on a monthly basis—telephone conferences.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> We’d be talking where we are and how we’re going and what we need to do. And so that was very helpful and it was a </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">cooperative effort. It wasn’t a, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">well, we want that and you can’t have that. It was</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> a system</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> that we all want to work together. And we met last July again down in Los Alamos for a meeting on those three sites plus one or two of the other Energy Community Alliance sat in on some of that. We’re meetin</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">g again in August in Denver. This time at</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> Denver because that’s kind of a convenient among the three sites, and it’s also where the inter</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">im superintendent of the National P</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ark’s located, so that she can be here. That’s Tracey Adkins and she was here in fact yesterday. One of our local what we call</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> our parks committee that’s not—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">made up basically the elected officials of the community here, the four mayors, the county commissioners of Benton, Grant and Franklin County, and then there’s, besides elected officials</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> there’s the Visit Tri-Cities, TRIDEC and BRMA is on that. We’re more of an advisory group than we are </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">to the mayors. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ut the committee is an administrative committee and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">that’s</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> where I and John Fox and BRMA and Visit Tri-Cities</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> and others</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> sit on for </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">short-term</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">. I guess I call that the working group who gets the work done and so on. And then we get with the mayors and so on. It’s kind of either up or down, you know, that sort of thing. But anyway, the working with the other communities has been a very cooperative effort, and we meet now on phone calls once in a while—not quite so frequently, though, not once the legislation has passed. But we meet like once a yea</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">r or so, just—and now with the P</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">arks, too. It was former</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ly just with DOE, but with the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">P</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">arks people actually present and with the interim superintendent of the Manhattan Project National Historical Park. So it’s a good relationship and I think it hel</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ps in the overall park and the P</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">arks people are interested in working with the communities, too. They’r</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">e very—I find working with the P</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">arks service very, very interesting and informative and they’re people who are very willing to listen and learn and likewise we try to exchange information and we learn what they’re process is and I think it’s been a very, very good relationship. And I want to give credit to Colleen French here at the local office has been extremely supportive of BRMA and all of the activities and go out of h</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">er way to have—like when we had</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the November 12</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX227234824">th</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> event out here raising the National Parks flag at the site and working with them. She’s been just tremendously helpful in getting that accomplished.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: What’s my question here? Could you give me an idea, if you know, of the sort of size of BRMA over time?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: It’s small. That’s our real problem. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">I</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">t’s like most organizations, I find, you don’t find a lot of younger people joining. And that’s a—I think that’s kind of typical of our whole society now. Today, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">most of the mothers and fathers are both working, they’ve got the kids in school, they’re in soccer, they’re in baseball, they’re in football. Their time is very limited. And I find that in a number of organizations I’m in. So our group is very small. It’s—we only have about a total of about 70-some members. But our active members are probably 20 or something like that. And we have a fair number of people who are not in this community. They’re people who lived here or worked here before. One of the assistant general managers for DOE is still a member, living down the—not Los Alamos—but Los Alamos area and also a couple of them down in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">WIPP site down in New Mexico. We</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> find ourselves, I think—and we’re looking right now—what </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">should</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the mission of BRMA be? And we’ve kind of—a couple of us got together the other day on—had a bottl</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">e of beer and sat in Hank Kosmata</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">’</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">s</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> backyard on his patio and just kind of brainstormed a bit. I think we’ll say, for the next three, four, five years, however long, until the park is fully established, we’ll be working extensively with them on assisting in the interpretation activities. We want to emphasize more the education and working with particularly the high school, college kids but also the younger ages. We want to do more emphasis on the T Plant, which is a very key element in this whole process of plutonium and getting the plutonium that was needed for the weapons program. So those—kind of those three are the main activities we want to focus in and decide whether we morph into some o</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ther organization. Because the P</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">arks are really interested in developing at each of these sites what they call Friends of the Park, and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">that’s</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> a common thing among all national parks. It’s sort of a group that </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">supports t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">hat local park and assists the Parks D</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">epartment. And the Parks Department is not a wealthy department. They a</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">re very limited funding to all</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> parks. They’ve got extreme backlog on the maintenance of all their activities. So they rely heavily on volunteer work, they rely heavily on these funding process of Friends of the Park, and they have a formal structure in developing it and authorizing and so on, because they, again, want to be sure that there’s precise accountability and all of that sort of thing on that if they’re gonna be associated with them. So we’re working this local community o</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">n</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> this parks committee and so on of hoping we can establish that soon. Now, there’s a lot of competition so to speak there, because we’ve got a lot of other things in the community</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> we really want to support.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">W</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">e want to support the REACH organization</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">—t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">hey’re looking for funding. We’ve got the aquatic</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> center</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, you’ve got the performing arts center, you’ve got all of these things. But nevertheless, there’s some people that don’t have to be members of this community that are interested in the Project history of the Manhattan Project and all of that, that you can get various grants and forms and that sort of thing from others. That’s something that we will probably eventually just go out of existence, because we don’t have a lot—I mean, I’m kind of the young kid on the block, actually in our organization, and I’m nearly 78 years old. We got a guy that’s the youngest kid—he’s 65! We call him the little kid brother. We’re losing people. The last two years, we’ve lost the remaining people who were there at startup of the reactor. So the history is kind of disappearing with them in some respects. That’s why I was interested, particularly these interviews that you’re doing here with some of these old-timers and some of the guys that were here, so we get that recorded, and we know what’s there and it’s so important. Of course, as you know, working with you on some of our early recordings that we had with some of our original people that</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> are</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> very, very informative and useful in terms of researchers or anybody that wants to use that information. </span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: So there’s also ways been a lot of interest among the public in the sort of more negative side of Hanford’s history. Has the down-winders and those sorts of groups influenced the telling of the history in your opinion?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Well, you know, we want to be accurate with our history. And we want to tell all sides of the history. That’s been sometimes a little bit of a problem internally, because, well, gosh, those guys, they just dump. But I say, that’s history. We’ve got to learn what the issues were and what the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">problems</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> were. And the same—we get some people when the Parks people decided to have a few of the Japanese people sit in on the scholars’ group. I’m not at all opposed to that. I think we got to tell history. History’s got to be told accurately. And it’s important—we may not agree with some of that stuff, and we may not agree with their opinions or thoughts, but it’s only precisely true that we need to reflect what that history and what those events were. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">So </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">I personally am not opposed. But there’s the real strong advocates in nuc</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">lear and there’s the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> anti-nuclear. We’ve got to show that as existing. We’ve got to recognize that. But I don’t think it’s given us any problem—the answer to your question—I don’t think it’s been an issue that creates difficulties or that we found is interfering with whatever we want to do. We’ve got to recognize it, we address it, and we think we try to address it in a very educational basis, in a very precise basis, and not in an argumentative or conscientious-objector-type—well, that’s not the right word either. But we just don’t want to be contrary to them necessarily. Just understanding that they’ve got a different point of view.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Have you sort of followed that controversy in your time living in the Tri-Cities?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Yeah, to some extent. I can see both sides. I think we need—particularly</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> I can see the need to reflect on what effect it had upon the Japanese. I really think that’s essential. Some of our people don’t agree with me. They say, well—they’ll say, yeah, that’s true, but, boy, if we hadn’t done what we needed to do maybe a lot more would be dead. That’s true, too, there probably would have. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">We’ll</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> never know for certain, but—we hear of </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">people</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> and know of people that </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">had probably saved their lives by the fact that they didn’t have to go and invade Japan. We’ve got some of our own members who kind of fit in that category. But I’ll never forget Terry Andre tells the story when she was at the CREHST museum when it still existed and an </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">elderly</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> Japanese person came in one day and asked her: Are you an American? She said, yes, I’m an American. Oh, thank goodness. He put a big hug around her. She kind of says, well, what’s that? She says, I would not be alive today if you had invaded Japan, he said.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">Because I was trained in our—I think it was equivalent to the boy sco</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">uts—which we were to be suicide-</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">type defenders. And we were supposed to be carrying these bombs, burying us in the sand, along when the Japanese invaded, and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">blow</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> ourselves up and try to get as many American soldiers as we could—or Allied soldiers as we could. So that’s one side of the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> s</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">tory. The others you hear, but people have really suffered when they dropped the bom</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">bs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. So</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> those stories need to be told, and that understanding has to be there so that there’s the pros and cons. And another interesting thing is, when we had the docent training </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">by the Parks people, t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">hey were saying, try to not reflect your own opinions. Give them the facts—that yes.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> And they did some role playing talk about when </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">someone says, well, should we have dropped the bomb? And they were playing with all the different ways you might address that particular question. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">And try to </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">say, if they took one position kind of say, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">well, that’s tru</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">e, but did you think about this or something.</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> Let them decide themselves, but bring it more forth. And I thought that was excellent type comments that the Parks’ interpretation </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">people and their docents, particularly</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> did</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the training, bring forth those sorts of thoughts. I’m in agreement with that.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: You mentioned this sort of pro- and anti-nuclear folks. Has that sort of politics gotten involved in the interpretation of Hanford’s history, do you think?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: I don’t </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">think</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> it’s got involved in the interpretation. Now, there’s people who will be critical of the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">fact</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> that either one side or the other hasn’t been displayed enough. And that’s an emphasis that I really respect the Parks to—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">I think </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">they mentioned, they got issues in the North and South War—the Civil War. The things down in Andersonville, Gettysburg—these—and the Arizona, and they really understand how best to portray that. They’re the nation’s storytellers, and they really want to hone in on the fact that we aren’t going to try to change anybody’s mind; we don’t want to argue with them; we just w</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ant to presents the fact more and let them decide. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ut maybe if they’ve got one position, just kind of let them know what some of the other people are thinking, too, and vice versa. So I don’t really see it as an issue or a problem. It’s something we’ve got to address and it’s something that got to be recognized, but we’ve got to do it thoughtfully and doing it with some knowledge of where we’re coming from and how we present that.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Mm-hmm. And you said that’s equally true for sort of the local health impact as well as the Nagasaki and Hiroshima?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: I think so. But again, that’s my opinion. I think there’s a lot of advantages and there’s a lot of disadvantages. I mean, I keep coming back to some counterpoints and that is the whole medical isotopes, and the medical </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">radiation</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> program and so on. I mean, there’s over 20 million </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">radioactive diagnostic procedures in the United States every year. And there’s a likewise amount throughout the rest of the world. There’s not as many therapeutic, but almost. That’s the positive side. Now, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">there’s the negative side—that, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">gee, if you get exposed to it, that’s not good either. So, like most issues, nothing is clearly right or wrong. There’s pros and cons and I think we got to stop and think about those, and each person make up their own mind</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> to</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> where they may fit in that spectrum.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: How have the Tri-Cities changed in your time living here?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: [LAUGHTER] It’s been </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">significant</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">. I see the major growth in housing. Gosh, when I came here south of the Yakima River, there was nothing—none of that whole area. West Richland was small and didn’t go out. The shopping, as I said earlier—there was hardly anything here to do in that sense. The amenities of living in the community, the education of WSU here and various arts performing type groups—just—it’s almost like day and night in that sense. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">I just—just amazing me, and I’ve been here a little over 50 years. It was kind of like a sleepy to</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">wn almost when you first come</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">—when I first came, I should say. Pasco was the biggest, I think, town at that time. Of course, it’s got its history with the railroad and all of that sort of thing. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">The growth of the housing and you wonder, how could more people keep coming in? Where are they coming from, and where’s all this activity—what’s this base? It’s amazing. But I think the biggest thing I noticed is the shopping and the industry broadened quite a bit. I think most people don’t realize how many small businesses we really have in this community—various </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">outgrowths, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">spinoffs</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> of some of the lab work and some of the other activities. I think we had one golf course here at the time when I came over in Pasco. We’ve got a lot of that. The water sports. I mean, it’s—and the surrounding areas, the win</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">eries and all the vineyards. Yet the one </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">other thing I remember when I first </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">c</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ame and we </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">f</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">irst married, we used to go out and pick cherries or whatever where all houses are now. We still go out to some of the places to pick some peaches and stuff, but a lot of that stuff—and pears—you hardly see around. I can think back in those early days that we did all that. We go now in French’s out there where they have you-pick for peaches I think is one of the most popular places in town in the summertime when it’s peach time that they’re just so busy out there. But it’s changed. It’s just—but you know, a lot of the cities and so on—we’re getting people moving from the </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">rural areas into mor</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">e the urban areas, and we’re no</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> different, I think, than some of the other major citi</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">es much bigger than we. But we</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">’re </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">staying—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">following kind of that same pattern.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: Mm-hmm. Okay. So as we sort of wrap up here, there are probably—I don’t know—particular stories that leap to your mind from your time working at Hanford or living in the area, or any other sort of stuff I haven’t asked about that’s worth sharing?</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Yeah, I don’t know. I think </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">one</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> of the things that comes to mind is my involvement early with the kids in the community in the sports area and then of course, when my own son got into some of that with working with them. The other thing that kind of comes to mind, I said, I remember Christ the King Church, but like everything a growing—I’m in</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">volved in the building committee</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> and making that church bigger, tearing down the old government</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">-b</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">uilt building, all on volunteer-</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">type work tearing down, basically. And things of that that you tend to think of not necessarily unique to me, but for a lot of the members of this community, </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">where you saw so much volunteer-</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">type effort, community effort, where family didn’t have their own personal family right nearby. And I saw that. My wife can speak a lot more to that, but I saw that early in ’63 still existed, wh</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ere you saw this sort of social-</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">type gathering of—and I don’t think we see that quite the same anymore here in this community. If it is, it’s more like kind of an organized structure, or organized stuff. It’s not just like somebody drops by or you get a bunch of families together and oh, let’s have a Christmas party, or let’s have this, that or the other thing. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">That’s kind of what I witnessed early, and not to the extent—as I say</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> again</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">—as my wife did in her family. But I saw that, and I see that kind of disappearing here. Some of the interesting things at work is like—I mentioned briefly earlier about the moonrocks coming back, the smoking swine—I was heavily involved in when they decided not to have the—I should say the smoking beagles and the swine. The swine is one of the closest animals that’s similar to a human. Their skin and all that. So there’s so much testing on radiation effects. A lot of these swine that was just evolutionary and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">helped</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the whole medical field. Wel</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">l</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">, we excessed those, I remember, in the process of excessing, where should we give it to? And</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> it ended up—</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">I was q</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">uite heavily involved in that—w</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">e gave it to the University of Minnesota, because they had quite an extensive program on </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">heart development and heart surgery and stuff like that. They could utilize these swine and they had made a good proposal how they would care for them and continue in breeding them. Leo Bustad was the guy that developed those, like</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> a</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> full-grown was 150 pounds,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> was</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> close to a human being, and all those sorts of things. And I thin</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">k back about those sorts of things, about uniqueness, again, of science, of technology, developing these animals so that they—and there, again, you’ve got the other s</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ide of those people that are</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">—oh, gosh, you </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">shouldn’t</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> be sacrificing animals. There’s validity to that. And then you look on the other hand—but look at all the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">benefits you get on</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> that, and you can do it in a humane way, and all of that. So those things. Some of </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">the</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> stuff, I can’t describe now. I was not heavily involved in classified stuff, but there was some of the work out at Battelle that once it’s unclassified, it’s</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> just</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> unbelievable some of this stuff that you learn through that sort of thing. Those things often come to my mind, but </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">I still—taken</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> the oath that I’ll keep those to myself. That’s about all I can say about—but I wasn’t heavily involved in that. I didn’t have a super—I had a Q clearance. That’s another interesting story. When I was hired by DOE, they said, well—at that time you had to ha</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ve</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> a Q clearance before you could ever come on work and it took about three months to get this Q clearance processed. So I was home back in Wisconsin for about a month, just waiting for the clearance, because I wasn’t going to drive all the way out here </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">and </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">f</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">or some reason to find out th</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">at, well</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> we can’t take you. I m</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">ean, I had no reason to believe that, but I just</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> had to wait out the process. So</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> that was, again—and that was difficult in hiring early on when we were recruiting college kids and stuff. </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">That was when</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> we still needed that—that everybody needed—well, not everybody, but 95% probably of the DOE and AEC—it was AEC then. People needed a Q clearance before they could get on board. Well, people are anxious, they don’t want to wait around </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">three months. They’re looking for</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> a job. So that was one of the difficulties that comes to mind when I talk </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">about out</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> those sorts of things. But there’s a lot of fond memories and associations with people that you’ll always have. And some unique activities that occurred. And, again, I keep thinking </span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">about working with Wally Sale</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> at the Consolidate</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824">d</span><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"> Laboratory and how unique and different that was and how innovative his approach—and he’s the one that really is the creator of that concept. So anyway, it’s been—it was an enjoyable career.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">O’Reagan</span>: All right, well thanks so much for being here.</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX227234824"><span class="TextRun SCX227234824"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Plahuta</span>: Yeah, you bet. Thank you. And I appreciate--</span><span class="EOP SCX227234824"> </span></p>
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Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
01:41:53
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
B Reactor
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1982-2016
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1982-?
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Hastings, Doc
Wagner, John
Holstead, Paul
Tomlinson, Sam
Sale, Wally
Volpentest, Sam
Philips, Bob
Jackson, Scoop
St. John, Holland
Ashby, Steve
Murray, Patty
Pasternak, Charles
Wright, Mona
Harvey, Dave
Gerber, Michelle
Marceau, Tom
Kelly, Cindy
Woodruff, Gene
Adkins, Tracey
Fox, John
Kosmata, Hank
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Maynard Plahuta
Creator
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Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Subject
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Richland (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Nuclear weapons plants--Health aspects--Washington (State)--Hanford Site Region
Date
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4/28/2016
Rights
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Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Date Modified
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2016-08-16: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Provenance
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The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
Atomic Energy Commission
Atomic Heritage Foundation
B Reactor
B Reactor Museum Association (BRMA)
Battelle (Wash.)
Energy Communities Alliance (ECA)
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
General Electric
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Mission Support Alliance
Nuclear weapons plants--Health aspects--Washington (State)--Hanford Site Region
Pacific Northwest National Laboratory
Pasco (Wash.)
Richland (Wash.)
Volpentest, Sam, 1904-2005
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F4cdcadac41f6f67ab96b3d3139e0d7c9.jpg
528032f0f87e04a27c86a919beaffebe
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fc1a50427e4983bc9810e7a2e0bc13041.mp4
81ff44062a749499e4b1d1f725603330
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Mildred Balderston
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX220491560">
<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span class="SpellingError SCX220491560">Balderston_Mildred</span></span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></strong></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Robert Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> So let's maybe go back. So he was saying we didn't quite get the first couple minutes of our</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">conversation. So if you could just, again, talk about what brought you to Hanford, where you were, and talk about</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">your background, coming from Kansas, and so forth.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Mildred Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Well, I was working at</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> the</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> Remington Arms when I got a call from Hanford for people to come up there, when they</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">were laid off at the Remington Arms.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">So Remington Arms was in Denver?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Denver. And I knew that I was going to get laid off, because they were laying off all these people and just keeping</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">a certain amount. And so I said to my boss, I would like to go to Hanford. He said, that's not a place for you. Just</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">kind of like t</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">hat, you know. And I thought, okay. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">t wasn't time for me to leave yet, so I was still there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">So a few days later, I said, you know what? I would kind of like to go to Hanford. He said, that is not a place for</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">you. So I thought, well, how am I going to get around this? </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">What am I going to say? So I finally said to him again,</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">you know, I would really like to go to Hanford.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> I guess he </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">was tired to that. So he said okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">And how did you</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">going back a little farther</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">so how did you get the job at Remington Arms?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Oh, you put in an application. See, I knew they were coming to town, and they were hiring. And so I put in my</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">application, and I got the job.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">You had already moved from Kansas to Denver before that.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Pardon me?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">You had already moved from Kansas to Denver before that?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">I lived in Kansas before I went to Denver, and then when I went to Denver, I got this job, and then I started going</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">to business school, so I could get a better job. And so then I worked in this, I think it was an insurance office, for</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">about a year. And then I put my application in at Remingto</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">n Arms, and I got hired there, s</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">o I quit the dental job.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">And they had a dormitory for us, and I said, well, I wanted to go to the hotel one night. So they had the Desert Inn.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">That was our first hotel thing or whatever you want to call it. So I went to that for one night, and then I went to the dormitory. And I lived in the dormitory for probably a year or a little better.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">And then they were reducing people here, so they made up a single girl's contract to rent a house. So we rented a house. There were several of us in the dorm that lived right in a certain vicinity. So we decided, well, we'll take a</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">house. W</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">e got a house, and I think there were four of us to start wit</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">h in that house. It was a three-</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">bedroom.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> T</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">hen</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> in</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> about a year, one of the girls got married and left. So</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> we got another one in there. We kept adding to. We</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">got another one in there, and then a year or so beyond that, another girl</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> got married and left. W</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">e must</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">have had three of them, because then I went home on vacation. And I had a sister who was a schoolteacher</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">there, and she was kind of disgruntled with her school teaching. And so she wanted to do something different. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">said, why don't you go up to Hanford with me? So she got</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> rid of her contract. Just chop-</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">chop. It wasn't any big</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">deal.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">And she packed, and we ca</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">me back up after my vacation.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> I think she made the third of us then, and then we</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">had one mo</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">re that we had to get. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">fter the fourth one left</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">no, I guess it would only be the third one,</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">because I was still there</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">I had four sisters, so as they graduated from school, they started coming up. So finally,</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">we had them all up here, and so I didn't have anyone else in there, which was kind of nice.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> T</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">hey got jobs here, and they stayed. And then, well, just one at a time th</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">ey came, because they graduated—w</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">hen they graduated, they came up. And so one went away to school, and one found a boyfriend, and she got</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">married, and so she left. So there was just the two of us, and my folks lived in Kansas, of course. And of course,</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">they decided, well, they'll move out here. Well, we asked them, why don't you come out? The rest of the family's</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">here, so come on.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">So we went back and brought them out. But we couldn't rent a house in Richland. So we had to go to Kennewick.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">We bought a house there, and then my dad went to work. And that was kind of it. My sister and myself and my</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">mother and my father, and so as time goes on, my father wasn't in good condition.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">As time went on, he wasn't able to work. And so I think he had a</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">I was going to say a stroke, but I'm not sure that</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">that was it. And he was in the hospital for a</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">while, and the doctor told them that he would only live five years. Well,</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">he hung on to that five years for five years, and at the end of five years, he knew he was going to die, which he</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">did.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">But the interesting part about this is he had worked with some people who sell houses and other stuff. And he had</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">made friends with other people. So he goes around to each of these people just before he passed away to say</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">goodbye, which amazed me. I just didn't realize that you do those kind of things.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> But anyway, he did this. So then</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">that left just my mother and my sister and myself. We had moved to a bigger house, which was kind of nice at the</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">time, and besides, the one that we bought first had a basement. And we were afraid that the folks might fall</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">downstairs, and we wouldn't be home, because we were working.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">So we moved to this house, a one story house. And so we lived there, and then my mother had problems. And so</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">we decided we needed someone to take care of her. Now do you want all this kind of stuff?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">This is fine, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Well, if you don't want this kind of stuff, let's go on something different.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">. Well, I just wanted to ask you about the house she lived in in Richland</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">, that first house</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">. Where was that house?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">That was on Sanford Street.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: Okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> It was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">what were tho</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">se things we had? It was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">--</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Was it one of the alphabet homes or prefab?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Similar to a prefab, but I don't think that's what it was called at that time. Perhaps it'll come to me sometime close</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">here, and I can back up a bit and tell you.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Well, then I also want ask you about your job when you first came out Hanford. What sort of job was it, and where</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">in Hanford were you working? What area were you working in?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Well, when I first came </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">up here, I went out to the 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">rea, I think, for a day. And then a job opened up in</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Richland, and I went in for an inter</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">view, and I took the interview—</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">I mean</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> I took the job. So then I came back to</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">town, and was there for a number of years. And then I moved around to other people that had job openings. So I</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">kind of went up the ladder a little bit. And I enjoyed all of th</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">em. But while I was in the 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">rea, an interesting thing</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">happened.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">I was taking dictation, and this man had the door kind of closed a little bit, because we weren't allowed to talk</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">about anything when I first came. And so he was dictating, and he said a word that I</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">it was associated with a</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">plant, but I didn't recognize the word. And so I repeated it, so I'd be sure and get it down right. My goodness, he</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">ran to the door, and he looked out. Oh, we don't say that word out loud.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">So I thought, well, that probably takes care of my job. I won</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">'t have a job. But that didn't—</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">I didn't lose it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Do you remember what the word was?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">I've tried to think of what that word was. I've tried and tried and tried to think what that word was, but it didn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">come. It hasn't come to me yet.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">So when you first came to Hanford, did you know what sort of work was being done at Hanford, what Hanford was</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">being built for, or what was happening out here?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">What is it?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Did you know what was being done at Hanford?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Oh, no. It wasn't talked about. We just knew that there was a job at Hanford, and you go out there and do your</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">part. Well, I didn't know for a long time what it was, even when I was out here, because you just didn't talk about</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">those things. You run to the door to see if anyone</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> had</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> heard you. So no. </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">I enjoyed it. I had good bosses;</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> I had good</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">jobs. I really couldn't have asked for anything better. I had worked in an insurance office in Denver, and then I had</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">gone to the Remington Arms, and so I had that experience. But it was a good place to get an experience.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Do you remember what your first impressions were of Richland and the area here when you first arrived, what you</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">thought of the place?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Well, we came in to Pasco on the train, and that was the dirtiest place I have ever seen. It was just awful. And I</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">thought, oh, I hope Richland isn't like this. So anyway, they </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">hadn’t gotten </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">s</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">tarted working on Pasco by then. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">nd when I got to</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Richland, everything was kind of in the new stage because of all the new houses, all the new equipment that was</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">available. So Richland was a different story.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">And so when did you arrive</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> then</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">? Around what time period did you arrive in Richland?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">I think it was the 14th of August in 19</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">probably '43. I think it was '43.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">And what were the dorms like? You mentioned that you lived in the dorm initially.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Oh, they were very nice. And then that building next to the building downtown in Richland. What's the name of that</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">building? That brick building—</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">that brick building that they built. And the post office was in one end of it. Well, right</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">across the street was a cafeteria, and that's where we had to eat. And our dorms, the women's dorms were in that</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">same area.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">The men's dorms were on the other side of Swift, I guess it is. But then we went t</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">o this house</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> that they made</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">for the single girls. And we</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> did our own cooking, so we didn't have to go there. But those places can get kind of</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">old after a few meals there. And so we were glad to do that.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">What sorts of things were there in the area for entertainment in Richland? Were there movie theaters at all or any</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">places to go like that for entertainment?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">I can't remember of any entertainment. I'm sure there must have been something there they could've done,</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">besides the telev</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">ision. Oh</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">, I think there was some</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">the high schools had ball, and so I think some of them went</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">to that. And I don't think there was a fat lot of anything there, because we were so busy working. By the time you</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">went to the area, and by the time we would get back, the day was far spent.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">So when you worked at the 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">rea or some of the other places out on the site, did you take a bus out there? Is</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">that how you got out there?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">What was it?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">When you worked out at the 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">rea or some of the other places on site, did you take a bus there? Did you have</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">to take a bus?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Oh, yeah. We'd take a bus from</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> where we lived out to the 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">rea. Well, no. We would take it out to the bus</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">depot, and then you'd take a bus from there. So yeah, we took a bus.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">And you mentioned, talked a</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> little bit about the secrecy—y</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">ou couldn't say certain things or talk about what was</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">going on or what your work. So do you remember when you found out that there were</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">what was being made at</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Hanford? Was it the end of the war?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">You know, I'm not sure. I can't remember when I found out about that. The thing is</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> knowing that we weren't</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">supposed to know, it wasn't that important. So we didn't go around asking people, what are we doing? Just go</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">ahead and do it. So I don't know. I can't remember when</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">it seems like there was a war or something, or people</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">were going to war or something that it came out. But I wouldn't say, because I can't remember.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">So you said you started working in August of 1943</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> about? How long did you work at Hanford then?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">46 years.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Wow.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Long time.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">So when you initially came, were you working for DuPont?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">And then did you work for some of the other companies that came later</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">GE and some of the other companies?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Yeah, and I worked for</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">I can't think of that name either. I worked for DuPont. I worked for GE. I worked for</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">it</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">was a telephone company, I think. It had </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">the name of that, and then there were</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> several others. So I wasn't just with</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">one, but I just kind of went from one to the next you know.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"><br /></span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> Right.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">So</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> 46 years, that's a long time. You must have seen a lot of changes take place.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">A lot of changes.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">What are some of the changes that you saw</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">ways the community changed, or Hanford itself changed?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Well, actually, they really weren't changes to me. It just seems like we just moved from one thing to the next. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">so it wasn't a change; i</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">t was just part of the show. So I didn't really realize that there were changes. I guess if I</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">would've taken time to think about it, I would've thought, well, we changed from this to that. It just didn't dawn on</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">me. I just worked, because I had a job, and whatever they told me to do, well, that was what I did.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">And you mentioned that your sisters came out here and worked also. Did they have similar sorts of jobs and work</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">similar places that you worked?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Yeah, they all worked out like at the site or someplace. And my sister that came out with me that was a teacher,</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">she got a job at the—</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">I think it was at the</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">it escapes me. But anyway, she eventually got a job to go to work for</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">the company, and she was with B</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">attel</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">le</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> for many years and had a good job there. And she really enjoyed it. I guess</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">it was different from school teaching maybe.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">And did you say your father</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> also</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> after your parents moved here, he worked at Hanford for a little while also?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Well, he didn't work at Hanford. He worked at one of the schools as a janitor. He had kind of done his thing, but he</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">had to be busy, and so there was an opening, and so he went as a janitor.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">So overall, how would you describe your 46 years working at Hanford? Overall, how was Hanford as a place to</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">work?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Well, I enjoyed it. I didn't go home grumbling or anything. I really enjoyed my time there. And the bosses I had</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">were all really good, and it was a good experience.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">I did want to ask you about one other thing. President Kennedy came out to Hanford i</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">n 1963 to dedicate the N R</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">eactor. Do you remember that at all? Were you here? Do you remember him coming at all?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Vaguely. I kind of remember that.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">And do you remember if you went to see him speak at all</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> or you don't remember?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">No, beca</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">use of the different areas. They</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> didn't cover all of them, and so we didn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">some did, but a lot didn't get in</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">on that.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Is there anything I haven't asked you about your years working at Hanford that you want to share or that it's</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">important to talk about?</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Balderston</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Well, my las</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">t bout was 13 years in the 300 A</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">rea. That was my last</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">that's the last place I worked</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> So no, I was just</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">kind of same old, same</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> old. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">nd so I only worked in the 300 Area and</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> Richland. I didn't go any farther out, so now my</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">sister</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">s</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">I had two sisters that worked in the area, and they thought they had a hilarious time riding the bus and</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">meeting all these people</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">. So they had a great time. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">t wasn't something that we just took because there was</span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">nothing else to take. So yeah, they had a great time. And so I guess nothing was lost with them.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX220491560"><span class="TextRun SCX220491560"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX220491560">Well, I want to thank you very much for coming in and sharing your story with us and letting me ask you questions.</span><span class="EOP SCX220491560"> </span></p>
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Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:25:25
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
250 kbps
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
300 Area
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1943-2013
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1943-1989
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Mildred Balderston
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Mildred Balderston as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-07-20: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Hanford (Wash.)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
300 Area
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Richland (Wash.)
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fae6130413e7ae36fc7c5f101e7fedd21.jpg
3cdc68a43f498b02735ccaa53fca9a14
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fb4456284af8e319cb2f34ebdbb560d45.mp4
685af0ac7d3745bdad5ec2359f14e49f
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Ray Deranleau
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX23414750">
<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span class="SpellingError SCX23414750">D</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span class="SpellingError SCX23414750">_Henry_Raymond</span></span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></strong></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Robert Bauman</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">: </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">. Well, we'll go ahead and get started. And I'm going to start by having you say your name, and spell it for us,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">please.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Ray Deranleau</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">: Ray De</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">-- are you ready?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> Yep.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> Ray </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Deranleau</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">, D-E-R-A-N-L-E-A-U, R-A-Y on the first name.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Great, thank you</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">. And today's date is September 3rd of</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> 2013. And we're conducting this interview on the campus of</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Washington State University, Tri-Cities. So let's start, if we could, by havi</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">ng you talk about your family--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">how they</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">came, how, when, why they came to the area here.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, my folks co</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">me here in 1930. And at that time, there was just six kids left in the house. The three older ones</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">had grown up. And they more </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">or less, I think, starved out--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">they were up at Genesee, Idaho. And the price of</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">wheat wasn't anything, and they just kind of went broke up there. They moved down here, and, of course, we</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">farmed down here, but that was altogether different. Dad had been a dry land farmer, but he had to learn the</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">irrigation thing.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Do you know how he heard about Richland, or any of that?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">I think he just put</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> the</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> pla</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">ce up for sale and the real estate </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">person, Carl Williams, who was in Kennewick for a long time,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">handled it. I know that. And I suppose that's how it </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">happened. I was about--I was six--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">or, five when we moved</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">here. So, a lot of that up there, I don't recall even.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And what were your parents' names?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Henry and Elizabeth.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And so where was your farm?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, it was right a</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">cross the ditch from where Battelle </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">is, headed west. It was across that ditch. And if you are</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">familiar with tha</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">t, there was an old school—Vale </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">School, up there at one time. And Dad had 33 acres, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">that seven acres was out of that original 40. So we were right adjacent to that.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">. Who were some of your neighbors, or people who lived closest to you, then?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, Pete Hanse</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">n lived right next to us. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> then, across the ditch, was </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span class="SpellingError SCX23414750">Hultgrenn</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> Were the two closest.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And so what sort of crops did you grow on the far?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, we had--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">towards t</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">he last, we had a little mint--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">peppermint. And we had quite a few grapes, but most folks</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">didn't raise grapes like Dad did. And, of course, we had hay and asparagus, and strawberries.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And g</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">r</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">o</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">w</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">ing up on the farm, did you have particular chores or responsibilities that were </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">yours</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Hell yeah. We milked cows, and just all the stuff that went with it. Cut asparagus. We'd get up as soon as you</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">could see to cut asparagus in the spring. That was always a cash crop that made a little money for everybody</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">that--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">and of course, it was early. It'd give them a chance to have some money to pay the water bill, and stuff like</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">that. So that was a good crop then.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Do you know where the crops were sold?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, they were sold mostly at Kennewick. And some things at Pasco, but mostly at Kennewick. Ours was, anyway.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">I want to ask you also, about your farm, were there other buildings besides the house itself on the property? What</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">other buildings were there?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX23414750">
<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> yeah,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> we had a barn, and a little shed that, I suppose at one time, had been kind of an open end garage type</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">thing. But most of that stuff was so worn out that you could throw a cat through it somewhere.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">So when you bought the place, it was something that someone else had already owned?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">There was what?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Someone else had already owned the place?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">No, Dad got that place from the ditch company. And he just moved on there for no payment at all. And of course,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">the reasoning behind that was if they had people farming, they were buying their water. So they were better off</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">just to let you set on there. And of course, eventually, he paid for it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">But that's when they moved on that thing.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> Oh, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> And it was awful run down, to begin with. Whoever was on </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">there</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> ahead</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">of us didn't do much farming. They just--</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX23414750">
<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Do you know how old the place was?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX23414750">
<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">No.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX23414750">
<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">It had been there for a while?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX23414750">
<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Yeah, it was older than I was.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And what about electricity? Did you have electricity there?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX23414750">
<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Yeah. [LAUGHTER] W</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">e got electricity there. And at that time that, PP&L was in here, which was Pacific Power and Light. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">they wouldn't give you electricity until the ERA came in, and then they were right there to give you some, if they</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">could. But they had to run a line in from </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Stevens, you know, where I live,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> there. And that was probably, what, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">block and a half maybe.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> But anyway--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">and then they went to our neighbors. And we had to buy e</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">lectric stoves. And I suppose--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">I know we</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">bought them from them, and I don't know if we had to or not. And just a deal where you pay a nickel down, pay</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">the rest your life, type thing. And I suppose they got a dang good shafting on the price of that stove. I don't know</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">that, but common sense tells me that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">But that's the way electricity was then. And like I said, boy, they weren't very helpful until the ERA came in, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">made all the difference in the world. REA, I guess it is.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">REA, right. And did that happen sometime after you arrived, the REA? Probably, yeah--</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Yeah. Roosevelt, I think, went in in, what,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> in</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> '32? And so we went there in '30. And we moved on to that place, I</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">would say, in '35. And I could be off a year or two. It was the second place where we first lived.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">, so where did you live before that, then?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">We lived just off of Van Giesen, and right in there close to where that little shoplifting center is, there on Van</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Giesen. If you know much about the history of this place, there was a house there, and they called it Officer's--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Officer's</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> something. And I can't say the word I want to. But anyway, it was a big, nice house, and they had left that</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">for quite a</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">while before they ever tore it down. I think they moved it to West Richland eventually.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">So that's where you</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> lived</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> initially, and then you moved to the place--</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Pardon?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">So that's where you lived for about five years? '30, '35, and then you moved to the second place? </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">. And what</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">about telephone? Did you have a telephone?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Yeah. We had a telephone. </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">My dad was on the ditch board--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">the water board. There were three other people</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">around there. And then they had a guy </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">running it. In fact, Fletcher--his dad ru</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">n that. And he had to have a</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">telephone because of that.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> Oh, okay.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> I suppose we wouldn't have had a telephone as quick as we did.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Was that a party line, sort of?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Oh, yeah. Yeah, then</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> about that time, too, we switched over from horses to a tractor. So that was kind of a change</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">in farming for us a lot.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">So initially you had horses for all the work on the farm? Do you remember what kind of tractor you got?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Yeah, we had an F-12, </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span class="SpellingError SCX23414750">Farmall</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> tractor.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">So what about the town of Richland itself? What do you remember about the town during the 1930s? Any</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">businesses, or things that you--</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, there was a couple of grocery stores, and a couple of gas stations. You could buy little candy bars, and stuff</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">like that at those gas stations. And there was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> hardware--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">good hardware store. And I probably missed some of</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">them, but there wasn't much here.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">[LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Did</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> you have a radio, or--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">how did you get news?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, we had a radio. It worked part of the time.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> One of those deals where everybody had his damn ear down into</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">the--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">trying to hear it.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Do you remember listening to any shows, or anything in particular on the radio when you were growing up?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Oh yeah, we used to listen to Jimmy Allen. And of course, Dad listened to the news. So we'd listen to that, too. But</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Jimmy Allen, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">, oh,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> Amos and Andy. We'd listen to that. And I don't remember what else. Not much, we didn't listen</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">to it a lot. It wasn't very good.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">What about newspaper? Was there a newspaper?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Yeah, we always had the Spokesman Review. There wasn't any local papers at that time.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">I want to ask you about school. What school did you go to? And do you have any</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> specific memories about school, </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">teachers or anything like that?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, we had a pretty good little school, if we'd have tried to learn something. And some of us wasn't too interest</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">ed</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> in</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">that, to be real frank wi</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">th you. And I was one of them--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">hell, I thought I knew everything there was to know at 15.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">But really, we didn't have a bad school.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">How did you get to school? Was there a bus?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Yeah, went on a school bus.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Was that a sort of regular school bus?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">It was? </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Yeah, they had cer</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">tain routes. There were about--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">I would say maybe five of them.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Were there any teachers that you particularly remember from your years of school in Richland?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, no, not really. We had some good ones and some ba</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">d ones. But I don't like to bad</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">mouth some of them.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And especially the kind of student I was. If I'd have had me, I'd have killed me. Just to be real frank with you.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">What's a recreational activities? What did you do for fun growing up?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, we played ball, and we fished, and just kind of entertained ourselves. We worked a lot, really. When kids</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">were old enough to work--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">and if you had any spare time, Dad would go out and buy another 20 acres, just about</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">what it boiled to with those old guys. You know, if they had boys especially, they were out looking for more land.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Which was a way of life at that time.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Mm-hm. </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Do you remember any community events? Any--</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, we used to go to g</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">range meetings. And they'd have two a month. And one of them would be a social thing,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">and at that one, they'd serve a little sandwich and coffee, and they'd have dances. You'd just volunteer a band, so</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">that was pretty neat.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Where were the g</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">range meetings held?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">The Grange Hall was right up where the Lutheran church is, he</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">re in Richland, on Van Giesen--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">or,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> yeah,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> Van Giesen</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">and Stevens.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">So I assume y</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">our father was a member of the g</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">range.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Was he part of any other organizations? You mentioned the irrigation, right?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">No, not really. We went to church when we had gas.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">What church did you go to?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Catholic. And we'd have to go to Kennewick for that. There wasn't any Catholic church here. In fact, there was one</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">church, and I think they called it Community Methodist. And pretty near all the </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">protestants</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> would go there. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">maybe they'd have a Methodist preacher for a</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">while, and if he </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">starved</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> out, the next one could be Lutheran, or</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">whatever, you know. You just kind of, in those days, did with what you had.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And they pretty much had a Seventh Day Adventist little church there, too. There wasn't many members, but they</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">would have meetings there, on Saturday.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Were there a number of families that went to the Catholic </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">church</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> in Kennewick from Richland, who lived there?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Oh, I don't think there was a half a dozen. Maybe something like that. Of course,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">them</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> Catholics, in those days, had lots</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">of kids, and more kids than the rest of them. So we could kind of o</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">utnumber them. We didn't need--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">if we had</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">families, we had groups.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">We had one Catholic bunch, lived out there on the river. And I think they had 17 or 19 kids, somebody said. And in</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">those days, it wasn't unusual for children to die at childbirth. And they h</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">ad some where they'd lose one--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">they'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">just name another one the same name. And I always thought that was kind of weird, but I know they did that.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">You mentioned playing ball growing up. Did you play sports in school at all?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, we played softball</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">. We didn't have any football--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">we didn't have a football team. We didn't have any material</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">for it. And we didn't play baseball, either. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">hey had a local baseball team--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">we'd call it a town team. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">everybody, whoever wanted to--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">and then they had some pretty decent players on that darn thing, for those days.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">How about basketball?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, we had a high school basketball team. And that was the size of that. I don't remember anybody other than</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">just--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">well, maybe in grade school or middle school, you could play around then.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">So y</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">ou arrived here in about 1930—</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> --</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">the years of the Great Depression. Wondering ways in which the Depression</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">sort of impacted people here.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">[LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, we were poor as church mice, you know. But everybody else was the same way. Hell, when I went in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">service in '43, I had better conditions in the service than I had at home. And like I said, everybody was poor, so I</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">thought that's the way everybody wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">s. And they were, around here--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">most of them, some of them were better off</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">than others, naturally.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">But it was pretty hard times </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">for everybody. We didn't ever--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">went hungry, or anything like that. I don't mean to</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">imply that. But, boy, we worked from the time were about 11 and 12 in the fields. And after we got a little older, we</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">could hire out, if we got a chance.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">We'd get enough money for our school clothes that way. And it didn't take </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">much--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">of course, we didn't get much</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">either. You'd get maybe two bits an hour, you</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> know. And boy, I'll tell you--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">that was work in those days, too.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Picking up potatoes, and things like that.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">I want to go back to school. So what year did you graduate high school, then?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">'42.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And how many people were in your class?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">I think there was just eight of us, or maybe a doz</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">en. I don't know, they got to--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">I think Edith maybe brought you</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">that picture of that group.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Yeah, s</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">mall group.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And some of us--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">I r</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">emember, one old teacher that--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">he was always talking about our sheepskins, when we</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">graduated. And I said something about my sheepskin one day. And he said, yours won't have any fleece on it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> Oh,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">gosh.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> I think about that school--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">what a waste of my time and theirs. It was all my fault, I'm not blaming anybody but</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">myself. But it was a fact. It was just</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> stupid</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> that I didn't want to learn more.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And you mentioned you joined the service in '43?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Y</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">eah, right after </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">they</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">as soon as they got the notice here, I started. I had two brothers in the service at the time.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And there were four of us in there, before it was over with. And everybody was in the service. And I just felt like I</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">should be in, and I didn't have the guts to leave. And dad wasn't any spring chick</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">en. So I hated to leave before—</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">But</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> once they got rid of that farm--</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">So tell me about when you notice from the government about needing to leave.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, we got we got notice from the government on March 3, and they just told us that our place-- condemned our</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">places, and was taking them. And we got our notice a little bit before noon, in the mail. And I was plowing a field</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">out there. And I came in for lunch, and they were, of course, telling me about</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> it</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And after I ate, I went back out and cranked up that tractor. And I bet I hadn't been plowing an hour and a half,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">and somebody called up there, and told them to get that tractor out of that field. I don't know who called, or any</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">more about</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> it than--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">the deal was you couldn't find out anything. And looking back, you understand why.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">But you sure didn't in those days. And t</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">hen, the bad thing about that--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">it put all those farmers on the market for a</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">new place, and immediately the land went up. And they weren't offering a lot. And a lo</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">t of the people didn't accept--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">they sued</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> for it</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">. And they</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> did better. And Mr. Fletcher--Robert's dad--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">was involved in that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And, of course, there was an att</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">orney that they had naturally--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">or, normally up there. And he handled the case--Lionel Powell, from Kennewick, who was an attorney.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">How did you</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">r parents respond to the letter?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, confused--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">everybody was. I guess they just finally told us that it was a government thing, and it was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">secret. And t</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">hey wouldn't--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">couldn't tell us, and they kind of accepted that. But first, they just were going to run you</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">out of there, without any kind of explanatio</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">n at all. And we never did get--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">it was world news when we found out</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">that Richland was part of the atomic bomb thing.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">So what happened with your parents, then? They sold the land--</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, they settled in Kennewick, and Dad bought a couple little places there.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">How long were they given to leave?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Oh, boy. They extended the time to get off of there. I think probably it was fall before the folks left. And then, a lot</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">of those crops, they had the prisoner of war camp, out on the Yakima there. And they had those prisoners in</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">there, taking care of some of those crops. Because I remember a couple of them working up there in the grapes</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">at our place.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And one of them asked the other one why he was in the slammer. And he said he was a letter writer. Anyway, he</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">forged checks.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> [LAUGHTER] He said he was a lett</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">er writer.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Was that camp--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">that</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> camp was in existence for a while, before '43, there? The prisoner of war camp?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">It was what?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">It was there before '43?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">I don't know. I don't think so. I think they put it up, but boy, they had people. They just put something like that up</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">overnight. I'll bet it didn't take them two weeks to put the dang thing up.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And you said your parents then bought a place in Kennewick?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">A farm, or--</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, they bought a little place down on the corner of 19th and Washington. There was a credit union there for</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">while, and they're gone from there. I don't know what's in there now. But industry's moved that far down in there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And of course, that was all farming. That was one thing about the farms, too, i</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">n Richland. So many of them--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">now,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">we were up on just sagebrush bordered us.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">There was always land there, available, if you had the time </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">to get it. In fact, Dad would--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">he'd water some of that--was watering some of those. He'd put in rye grass, because it'd stand the wind. It was hearty, you know?</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And he'd water. And he was figuring on getting two or three years of rye grass in that, to hold that sand a little bit,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">and then buying that. And it was things like that that they'd do. And they were pretty loose </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">with--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">the ditch</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">company, as long as they had water, they'd let them do things like that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">But the ditch company owned a lot of Richland. I thought back a lot of times, and wondered, between the Federal</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Land Bank and the ditch company, what percentage of th</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">ese little areas--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">and we weren't unique on that. All you</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">had to do was go </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">down the road to the next one--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">it was the same thing.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">You talk about irrigation. How did the irrigation system work? I mean, what sort of irrigation pipes--</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Deranleau:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">It w</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">as all real irrigation--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">ditches. Little ditches. We never heard of a sprinkler system, at that time.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Was there cement pipes, at all?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Oh, well, yeah. Some of it was open ditch, and some of it was pipes. And some of it was even what they call</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">continuous pipe. And I had never seen them make t</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">hat. But the inside out of it--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">there wasn't any joints, and they</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">had something they'd drag through the middle of it, put the cement around it, and then pull that. That's how they</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">had to do.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> I</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> never seen them do it. It wasn't very good. It wasn't as good as a good concrete pipe. And, of course,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">people, as they could, </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">they were improving on that kind of stuff. Getting rid of that kind of junk, and putting in</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">better.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">So do you remember what your, or your </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">parents', feelings were about--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">were</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> you upset about having to move off</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">the land? Angry?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, they were all probably angry, and confused, more than angry, </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">I think. Because just imagine--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">getting a letter</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">that you--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">and on those far</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">ms, it was--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">every month of the year, there was something to do. In winter,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">you had more cows to milk, and stuff like that. So it wasn't where you had a lot of time off, or anything.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">So do you remember where you were when you heard about what was happening at the Hanford site? About</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">what was being built, and used for?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">No, I really </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">don't. I was in Europe, and I come home--a</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">nd they gave us a 30 day furlough. And we'd seen just</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">enough combat that we'd been good candidates for over in Japan. And I think that was what they were figuring</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">on. But anyway, I was on a train going back to South Carolina, where I had to report back to.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And we were up </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">in Montana, and the conductor co</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">me through there, and told us that they had dropped those</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">bombs, and that the war was over. And I think that's the first time I ever</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> knew what Hanford really did--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">as near as</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">I remember, at least.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Do you remember your response when he came through and told you this?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">[LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, I hate to sound like an idi</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">ot, but we were playing poker--a bunch of us--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">and we were more interested in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">poker game. And--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">it was almost disbelief, I think.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And so how much longer were you in the service, then? When did you come back to the area?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Oh, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">fter that, I would say I was in the service five, six months. And we moved around a lot. I was in a chemical</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">warfare outfit. It was a mortar outfit.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">We had big mortars, and were designed to shoot gas, if we had to. That's why we were in the chemical end of it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">But we also had high explosives that we shot. And we would be attached to the infantry. But I don't know really</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">how long we was. Here again, I went back to--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">I was in 89th Chemical.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And when I got back to Colorado, I went over to where it was suppose</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">d to be, and--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">nothing there. So I saw</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">another che</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">mical outfit, right next door--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">90th. So I went over there. And I happened to walk right into the same</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">company that I'd been assigned to. We'd all been assigned to that, and we didn't even know it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And I'll never forget the First Sergeant in there. He told me where to go, what barracks I could bunk in. So I went</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">up to that barracks, and it was full. And I came back, and I said, that barracks is full, up there, I said. He said, go</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">up and throw one of those guys out of there, and get a bunk. And I said, you go up and throw him out.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> [LAUGHTER] </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And that guy took a liking to me. And he was the biggest horse's neck ever to come down the pike. He was a hobo</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">that had found </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">it in the Army, and he was re-enlisted. But he was kind of a weird booger. But anyway, he took a</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">liking to me. And hell, I could just get away with anything after that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">It was kind of weird. Some of the guys used to razz me about being his buddy.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> But anyway, we were doing a lot of</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">moving around. They were just shifting everybody. We went down through Texas, and they brought us up to San</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Francisco for Army Day Parade. We looped around on those damn hills down there a lot. My wife told me I wasn't</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">supposed to cuss, too, didn't she? But anyway, we were moving around a lot, </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">and then finally ended up at Fort</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Lewis, where they booted us out.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Do you know, after your parents left the farm, do you know if it was torn down right away? Or did the government</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">use it for anything?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, ours was, I'm sure, because it was just a shack. And most of them were like that. And it was just the better</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">ho</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">uses that they kept for folks--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">like that one I was telling you, Officer's Club is what they called that house over</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">there, where we first lived. And houses like that, they kept them around to put people in. But boy, I'll tell you, some</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">of those houses around here, you could throw a</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> cat through the wall of them--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">they didn't amount to much.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Do you have--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">are there any memories of growing up in Richland that really stand out to you? Any sort of</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">humorous events, or things that you remember from growing up here, that really stand out to you?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Oh, boy. Well,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> I remember one time, a bunch of us went up to Brown's island. And that's about maybe eight, nine</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">miles up the Colombia from here. And, of course, in those days, all those dams weren't in there and that was free</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">water. And if you knew where to go, you could wade over to that in the summer. And if you didn't, you'd have to</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">swim a little.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">But a bunch of us went up there. Anyway, we camped up there for pretty near a week. And we just hunted and</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">fished, and loafed around there. But anyway, there was a little shack on this side of the river. And we'd come</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">back, and I don't know whether</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> we were getting ready to leave, or just that morning, we were maybe going to hunt</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">rabbits or something.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">But we all had .22s. And one of those kids shot up into the corner of that damn thing, towards the ceiling. And that</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">bullet--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">we tracked it afterwards, and it went down the ridgepole of that little shack, just probably that far. And hit a</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">nail, and it dropped down on one of the kids' neck. Now, it just dropped, I think. But anyway, it burned his neck,</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">and it just rolled off, you know.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And I remember, he said, I'm shot!</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> We didn't pay any attention to him. And he said, I'm shot, you damn fools!</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> It</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">just boiled down that that had just rolled there, but just a strange thing. It hit a knot, to begin with, and turned and</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">went right up that ridgepole about two inches. And then, by that time, that little .22 was spent. But</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> anyway [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> he was pretty</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">excited, because he thought he was killed, and we didn't pay any attention to him.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">I'm wondering, anything you--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">or, what do you think would be important for people to know about what it was like</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">growing up in a small community </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">of Richland in the 1930s, 1940s?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, really, it was pretty good, because everybody knew everybody. And everybody associated with one another.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">There wasn't anybody that was left out, really. And like I said, we were all poor as church mice, but we thought</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">that was the way the whole world was. And like I said, I don't think there were any of us around that went hungry. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">really don't.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Folks would can, and they canned everything. I remember one year, I had three sisters that were going to get</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">married in the fall. And those girls and mom canned for their families to be, and our family. And they would can in</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">those old wash </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">boilers. And I don't know if you've ever seen that done, but what they'd do is put a little rack in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">bottom that was made out of cedar.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And it had holes bored about like that, so that the water could circulate through it. But those jars wouldn't sit right</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">on where it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> so</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> ungodly hot. And they put those in there, and then boil them for a couple hours to seal those</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">but</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">they</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">’d</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> put up even meat, my folks did. And mom, even, would can butter a time or two. Now, she didn't </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">heat</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> it, you</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">know--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">she'd put it in salt water, and put it in those jars.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">And then, we'd open that when, I guess, when we didn't have butter otherwise. I don't really know. I think she just</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">did that one year. But they'd put up all kinds of vegetables and fruit. And everybody had some of that, and you'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">trade around. Or if people had surplus, they'd just give it to you. There was a lot of that, because--</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">It was a way to preserve things for--</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Pardon?</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">It was a ways to preserve things--</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Yeah. And folks would also put up pork. And put so much salt you couldn't eat it hardly, and you'd have to soak it</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">for a week before you could get close enough to it to eat it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> [LAUGHTER] But we always--D</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">ad would kill a steer in the fall. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">we'd give some of that, probably, to the kids. Maybe they'd kill one later, and we'd get part of that, and stuff like</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">that. Or neighbors--</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">So it was very much a community, everyone--</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Yeah.</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">--</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">sort of shared, and worked together. Well, any other things that we haven't talked about yet, that you</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">remember, or that--</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">No.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Well, I want to thank you for coming in today, and for sharing your memories and experiences.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">Thank you very much.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX23414750"><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Deranleau</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">You </span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750"><span class="SpellingError SCX23414750">betcha</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX23414750">.</span><span class="EOP SCX23414750"> </span></p>
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Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1930-2013
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano) 1882-1945
Williams, Carl
Hanson, Pete
Powell, Lionel
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:37:39
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
252 Kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Ray Deranleau
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Ray Deranleau conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
9/3/2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-05-25: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash)
Richland (Wash.)--Politics and government.
Fishing
Kennewick (Wash.)
Pacific Power and Light Company
Pasco (Wash.)
Richland (Wash.)
swimming
-
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F481704163b47c34d27908164c1fdc660.jpg
8a2e3bfe1edb0794b3cd9318e0e310fc
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fedbf9aa4f2660aeda91b37fc51893caf.mp4
c40bdc18fe18a007a6e57a94ccfefe2c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Pre-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area prior to the Manhattan Project
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Bauman
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Robert Fletcher
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX24634405">
<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><strong><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Northwest Public Television | </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Fletcher_Robert</span></span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></strong></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I'm Robert Fletcher. R-O-B-E-R-T F-L-E-T-C-H-E-R.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Than</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">k you. And my name is Robert Bau</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">man, and today is August 20</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">th</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> of 2013. And this interview is being</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">conducted on the campus of Washington State University, Tri-Cities.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So let's start, if we could, by maybe having you talk about your family and h</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ow they came to this area, what </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">brought them here, when they came-- that sort of thing.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">My</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> folks--my mother and father--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">grew up in Wisconsin. They knew each othe</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">r in high school, and my father </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">came out w</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">est, because my mother had relatives in Idaho, and after she grad</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">uated she came out here to stay </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">with them and go to business college in Spokane.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So my dad was fond of her and he f</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ollowed her by working his way w</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">est. He was</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> an expert </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">milker</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">, and he could </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">always get a job in a dairy. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ecause when you worked in a dairy milking cows y</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ou had to get up at 3:00 in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">morning.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And so when he'd work his way from Wisconsin</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> to maybe South Dakota, and he</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> would see-</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">-</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">in the depot, in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">train depot--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">he would look on the bulletin board for openings for </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">milkers</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> and he </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">always found work. And he could </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">stay there for several weeks till he got enough money to move on.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So he wound up in Lewiston, Idaho, I believe it was. And eventually he and my m</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">other got together and they got </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">married in Coeur d'Alene, 1912. And I had a sister born in 1915 in Coeur d'Ale</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ne, Idaho, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Francille</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">. And another </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">sister was born in 1918.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">In the meantime, during World War I, m</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">y dad had been working in a, what</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">'s called</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> electrical substation in Coeur </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">d'Alene. And during the war then he went over to Bremerton and worked in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> shipyards at Bremerton, wiring </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">electrical wiring</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> on the ships. And my mother eventually followed.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">My mother became a secretary and could do the office work. But after kids were born, she didn't do much of that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And then after the war was over, Bremerton jobs closed up and he went to the b</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ack to work at another electric </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">substation down by Walla Walla, Milton-</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Freewater</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">. And he had been raised on a</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> farm and he had a desire to be </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">independent.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So at that time there were developments in Kennewick and then whole Tri-City area. They were developed</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">because irrigation water was being made available from the rivers.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And in Richland, there were private develo</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">pers and they would get bonds that</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> were backed by just state. The </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">state government wanted to support the development to get started, and that was in late 1918s, '20s.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And I'm</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> sure my dad--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">well, my dad told me that there were brochures that these</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> companies would advertise that</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">come to Kennewick or Richland, that water was available, the climate was ideal, an</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">d there soil was great, and you </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">could make a living on just a few acres if you knew how to farm.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So my dad travelled out here. His name was Francis, and C.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">F. Fletcher was </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">his-- And he bought 20 acres of </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">sag</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ebrush. It was what is now on--what did I say?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Spangler?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Spangler Road. He bought 20 acres there out there at the top of the hill. It was a</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ll sagebrush. And then later he </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">bought 10 acres down below the hill where there now is a trailer park or mobile homes.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">He had to arrange to get the teams of horses to pull out the sagebrush and leve</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">l the ground. My mother and—I </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">believe that sh</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">e had two children then, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Francille</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">, and </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Medo</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> is my other sister's name, born in 1918.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">They came out by train from Walla Walla to Kennewick. And Morton Hess </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">met them at-- Morton Hess had </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">a</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">improvised old pickup that dad said that they met them at the depot in Kennewick,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> and he brought them out to the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">farmhouse he'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> rented.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Before that, my dad had a team of horses, and he brought all his possessions i</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">n a wagon from Milton-</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Freewater</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">to Richland that took him three days</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> he said</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> to make that trip with the team of horses.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And so after he got the house rented, then he sent for my mother, had my mother </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">come out with the children. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">they lived in this rented farmhouse about a quarter of a mile away. And there</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> were a few other houses, a few </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">other farms being developed at the same time.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So that took a lot of effort. It was 1920</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> and he told me that he had to put in the irri</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">gation. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">he company brought </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">water to the edge of your property and then you had to put in the pipe yourself</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">. They were cement pipes, about </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">three feet long, 40 pounds, eight inches in diameter.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And he said he put in several hundred feet of this pipe and he thought he'd do</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ne a pretty good job. He worked </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">hard. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Turned the water on and it just leaked all over, so he had to do it all over again. He was pretty persistent.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And then they had a hard time the first few years because he was small, a small</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> person, and a greenhorn. About </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">the only income work you could get then was to work for the irrigation com</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">pany if you wanted to earn some </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">money. And usually that was when the water was shut off and they had to clean and </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">repair the ditches, open </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ditches.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And he said they wouldn't hire him for a year or two because they thought well, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">he was a greenhorn. He wouldn't </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">last anyway, and he was kind of small. But he stuck it out.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And what happened was they had to put in some new pumps for the irrigation system, and these were larger</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">pumps. They were three-phase motors, and there wasn't anybody immediately ar</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ound that knew how to fix them, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">how to hook them up.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Excuse me, I get very emotional</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">. So he told them he thought he thought he could do it. He wasn't too s</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ure. He said he could do it. He </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">told them he could do it. He said he, p</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ersonally, he said he wasn't too sure. But anyway,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> he went ahead with it and they </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">worked fine. And after that, he said he didn't have any trouble getting a job for the irrigation district.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And later on, several years after he got the farm started and everything, he did b</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ecome manager of the irrigation </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">district. When I talk about the irrigation district, it wasn't a huge one, but there was about 5,000 acres under water.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And most of the farms were like ours, 20, 30 acres. And because you had to have</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> a team of horses. You couldn't </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">farm like you can nowadays with everything mechanized like it is. Lots of hand labor.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So I was born in 1922, and I believe that they were still in this rented house. Bu</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">t in the meantime, they'd begun </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">work on a basement, which was about half underground and hal</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">f above ground with concrete side walls. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And so it was above the ground enough, it had had fairly good sized windows. And there were just two ro</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">oms. The </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">total probably wasn't more than 40 feet long and 20 feet wide.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And above that they put a temporary sort of a shelter that was more of a te</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">nt house with a wooden roof and </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">canvas with a wooden frame with canvas around it. And that was our bedroom. T</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">hat was where we had our </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">bedrooms.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And it was cold in the winter and hot in the summer, but in the summertime you c</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ould roll the canvas up and the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">evening breeze would cool it off. In the wintertime we had feather beds and my mother would warm up hot irons</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">on the cook stove, and we'd wrap them in towels and put in our beds. And we mana</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ged, thought we were living all </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">right.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">There wasn't any bathr</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">oom--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">there was no indoor bathroom, no indoor water s</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">upply. He dug a well down below </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">the hill. Had to do it by hand, about 20 feet deep. And the way to get water up t</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">o the house, he had</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> a,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> we called </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">it </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">a </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">stone boat, it was a sled.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">He hooked the horses to it, the sled, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> to pretty good sized barrels, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">suppose 40 gallon barrels or something.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">He'd fill them with water from the hand pump down below the hill. And he'd circle around it, bring that sled up.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">That was the water supply for a few days.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">But of course, it didn't always last long enough. And I can remember my mother carrying two buckets</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">[EMOTIONAL] of water up the hill.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Excuse me.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> It was a hard life for women, especially, carrying water up the hill, and all the</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">other work they had to do then.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">She was in charge of the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">garden. Of course, we had our</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> weekly bath by a copper tub on a cook stove. And the tub,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">and that's where we took</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> our weekly bath</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">, and shared the affair.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">The two rooms in the house were the kitchen and then where we ate. The other room was the living quarters and</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">where somebody might sleep if they were not feeling well, otherwise we slept upstairs in the tent house.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So those were the early days. It took them quite a little while for my dad to get established, and also get some</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">crops down that they could pay for their living expenses. And they had </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Fresnos</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">then that the team of horses</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">would pull, and they'd scoop the dirt and dump it in the low places and level it out.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And farmers worked together on that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> I can remember our neighbors--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">as I said, most people lived within a quarter</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">or a half mile of eac</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">h other.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> The </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Barnetts</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> and the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Nickolauses</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">li</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ved close to us and we shared--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">when it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">time to put in</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> some of the crops, the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Barnett</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">s</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> would come with their mowing machine and there would be two or</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">three mowing machines and everything going on, and we'd go back and forth and get the job done.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So what sorts of crops did you grow then?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> We--i</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">t was t</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ruck farming. We had to raise--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">we had to have cows. Truck</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> farming was not too reliable. You had to, t</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">o fall back on,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">you had a herd of cow--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">most all farmers had a herd of cattle which they had milk cows and some beef cows. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">you milked the cow--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">you had your own milking and made your own cheese, but you could sell to the creamery in</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Kennewick.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And we had a milk</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">house where we'd separate the cream from the milk. And we had the Twin City Dairy, I thin</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">k</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> it</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">was, would come by once a week and collect the milk. We'd keep the milk in a cool water place or something. I</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">don't remember now in details. We didn't have refrigeration. Maybe they came back twice a week. I'm not sure.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So we had a herd of cattle, and of course you always had a team of work horses. And I had a pony when I got old</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">enough, about third grade I think. In school I g</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ot a pony that had been tamed--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">he had been one of the wild</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">horses from Horse Heaven Hills. And a bunch of horses had been caught.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And we bought it from another fella, and he as a real-- Shorty was his name, and I thought he was the greatest</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">horse, because he could outrun any horse. We had horse races. And a lot of the kids, the only horse they had to</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ride was a work horse. So I was very fortunate.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Anyway, we raised alfalfa for the cattle and the animals. Alfalfa and clover, and o</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">f course you had to mow the hay </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">in the summertime and let it dry and put it up in wagons and carry it and take it into the hay stack for the winter.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">We also raised some acres of corn, of field corn, although we could eat some of th</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">e corn when it was quite young, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">but it was mostly raised for the cattle.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And we had an </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">in-ground silo where we had a—we’d bring in, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">when the corn was mature we'</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">d cut it down with machetes and </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">bring the corn stocks and ears and all and run it through the chopper and made silage</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> out of it. It would ferment in </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">this silo, which was about 20 feet deep and it was dug out near the barnyard. An</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">d about I guess 12 feet wide or </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">so.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">As a kid it looked bigger,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> probably, than it actually was.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> But anyway, that was par</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">t of the barnyard. And with the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">silage and the haystack, we kept the cattle going through the winter. Because you had to have enough ha</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">y to get </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">through and that took quite a load.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And then for field crops, we had a cherry orchard of three or four acres. We raised asparagus three or four acres.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> And that was a job that--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">that was a cash crop that game on early in the year in March.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And the whole family pitched in. We got up early, almost daybreak to cut the aspa</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ragus.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Before school you had to </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">have it cut. And then they'd go ahead and you had to pack it in crates to get it </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ready to market.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So we had the asparagus, and then</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> we had,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> between the trees in the orchard-- on</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">e time my dad experimented with </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">peanuts. And I don't think they turned out too well because I don't remember him having them very </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">long. We </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">planted strawberries. We had strawberries that we picked after the asparagus was done, the strawber</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ries would </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">be get ripe.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And then the cherries would get ripe in June usually. And so it was staggered out.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> And then we always had a field </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">of potatoes that you'd dig with a team or horses and a digger.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">But before you did that, you had to get seed potatoes, and they came whole. The fa</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">mily would--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">we had a cellar in </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">our house. We'd cut those potatoes into quarters, so there's an eye on each o</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ne and that would sprout into a </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">potato plant.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And we spent probably a couple weeks, maybe not that long, cutting the seed po</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">tatoes into where they could be </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">planted in the field.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> And </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I'm trying to think of other crops that we had. I know he tried different ones. We </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">had peas--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">peas</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> in a pod. And I </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">don't think that paid off too well because I don't remember it lasting too long.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Oh, w</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">e had some peaches. Not a big orchard, but we had some peaches and apricot </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">trees. Those were sort of under </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">my mother's domain,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> the garden and the apricots. And she made sure that we a</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ll pitched in and helped do the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">weeding and planting and picking.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And all of that had to be picked and canned for the winter. I can remember my mo</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ther and sisters working hard--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">doing a lot of work canning. An</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">d the cellar was just full of--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">they were quite prou</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">d to display, in those days, to </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">displa</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">y their glass jars of fruit, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">peaches and everything. And took it to the fair to </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">see if they could win some blue </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ribbons.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So we didn't buy too much from the local grocery store, except cooking oil and ban</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">anas--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">fruit that wouldn't grow </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">here. Orange. Those were a treat. Just a few times during the yea</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">r bananas and oranges we got at </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Christmastime or your birthday or something.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And the store was John Dam's, John Dam Plazas down here, named after t</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">he Dam Grocery Store. And there </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">were two men, John Dam and Victor Nelson. They ran the grocery store. And you didn't go looking for your things.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">You handed them a list. You wanted two gallons of kerosene for your lamps a</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">nd lanterns that you needed. No </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">electric lights.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And as I said, cooking oil, and flour and sugar in bulk. And once in a while you'd ge</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">t a treat of candy or something </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">such as that. So I think that covers pretty much what the farm was like.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">The crops that you grew, the cherries, strawberries, did you sell those somewhere?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Yeah. We picked and put them in crates. There w</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">as what they called the Big Y--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">it</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> was in Kennewick. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And it stood </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">for Yakima I think. Yakima--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">there was a branch of Yakima Produce Company.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And later on I worked there</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> nailing,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> making boxes for different kinds of fruit when I was in </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">high school.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Mm-hm.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> In fact, most kids </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">did extra jobs like that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Excuse me. I've got to take a drink.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Sure. </span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">All right. </span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I was going to ask you about your farm. You mentioned some underground silo.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Were there any other buildings </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">on your farm? Any warehouse or barn or any of that sort of thing?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Yeah. There was a barn from the cows, of course. And there are pictures in my b</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ooklet of some of these chicken </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">houses in the yard, a couple of chicken houses. And a milk house.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">We had pigs. The pigs consumed </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">a lot of the excess milk. You could--t</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">hey'd eat most anything you had that was extra.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And that was another thing we shared was when it came time to butcher a cow or </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">a calf or a pig for meat, there </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">was a man that was</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> sort of a local veterinarian--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I don't think he had</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> a degree--Sam </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Sup</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">plee.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> If your</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">horse </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">got sick, he knew what--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">or an animal got his foot caught in the barbed wire, he</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> knew how to treat it. And he'd </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">come by.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And he also knew how to butcher animals quite well. And he would come out. A</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">nd I can remember that we had a </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">hole, a pit dug out where we could put a fire in there, and it was covered with some kind of bars or metal affair.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And a vat of water would be put in that over the fire at ground level.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And adjacent to that would be a platform where the pig was killed. And after it</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> had been killed and the organs </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">taken out, they'd roll i</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">t into that vat of boiling water and then pull it back out aga</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">in after a few minutes. Then</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> you </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">could scrape the bristles off of the pig.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And Sam </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Supplee</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> then would </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">do the rest of the butchering. They</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">'d hang it up to cure overnight, and th</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">en to cut it </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">up. And for his efforts, he'd get part of the meat, or other people that had help</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ed out, and that's the way </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">that </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">they </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">operated.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And he was a local person they turned to. There were other veterinarians in Pas</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">co or Kennewick, but he was the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">one that they mainly relied on.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Our horses, we had two work horses, Star and Monte. I can remember them we</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ll, and that was one of my jobs </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">when I got home from school, after, was usually to rub them down after a day's wo</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">rk in the field, because they'd </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">be all sweaty.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Or on days when I wasn't at school</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">, too,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> in the summertime</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> to</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">o</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> take them down to the ditch where they'd drink a lot of</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">water. They got real hot and sweaty.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And then take the harnesses off. And there's lots of preparation before you could do too much. And so thos</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">e were </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">s</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ome of my jobs was to take in--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">you got home from school, the first thing to do w</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">as take in the firewood for the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">wood stove or the heating stove.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And there were plenty of other things to do around the barnyard, to clean out the stall, or clean out </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">the barn and </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">see that horses were fed and such things as that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Mm-hm. </span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">The thing was, I think that maybe a little different than nowadays, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">kids</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> knew that t</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">hey were part of the family and </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">that they were an important part of the family. And that they had jobs to do. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">just it was the thing that made </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">families close.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Sure.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I wanted to mention, too, that we did have special family friends. I mentioned the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">B</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">arnetts</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">. And they had kids that </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">were--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Dan Barnett was abo</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ut my age. And my sisters had--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">they had daughters. Any</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">way, they had kids about our </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">same age.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">The Hackneys were another family that lived not very far away and had a farm</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">. And there was Richard Hackney </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">and Dan Barnett and I were always good friends for a long time. And some othe</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">r kids in that area, the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Supplees</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I guess</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> I forgot where I was here. The Hackneys and the Fletcher</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> families and the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Carlsons</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> were </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">particularly close. The </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Carlson</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">s</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> also had children </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">th</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">at were our ages. And we would g</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">et together for family picnics, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">and especially F</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ourth of July we'd make our homemade ice cream and take</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> to Pasco Park where there'd be </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">fireworks.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And then in the summertime, we always had a break in the farm work of about f</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">our or five days where we could </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">get away from the f</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">arm. Usually it was around the Four</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">th of July or a little bit after.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And we would get away because the irrigation ditches were shut down for</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> a few days,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> about fou</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">r or five days in order for the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ditches to dry out and the weeds could be cleaned out. Because they clogged up with moss and other stuff.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> that</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> they would dry out the ditches and we could get away from the farm, as long a</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">s we had a neighbor to take care</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">of the animals that we had. And there were enough other people that would do that. We'd trade off.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So we would manage to get away for about three or four days and go up to a</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">bove Yakima, Naches and up into </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">the woods. And we we'd take our tents.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> One of the, t</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">he Hackneys, Art Hackney was a school bus driver, and school bus driver had </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">to have their own buses. They'd </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">own their own buses. So he could do with the bus whatever he wanted during the summertime.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So he would be </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">the one </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">that we would load up the bus--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">he took a few of the seat</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">s out that could be taken out-</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">with our camping gear in it, and some of the rest of the people would ride in that bus and others would go in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ir </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">car.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">We'd invite some of our friends to go along too. So we'd have quite a group and se</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">veral tents set up there around </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">the lake up at Naches, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Rimrock</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> and up in that area.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">We had a wonderful time up in there with all our friends, and sitting around the ca</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">mpfire at night and hearing the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">stories that the older folks had to tell. So that's--</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Mm-hm. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">A real sense of community there, yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Yeah. P</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">art of the community. It was a close-knit community for sure. An</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">d naturally, you had more close </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">friends with some of the people than you did with others. But as I said in my boo</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">k</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> that there was no--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">when you were </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">gone, nobody as I knew, locked their houses or worried about any of that sort of thing.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Mm-hm.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">You mentioned earlier that the house you lived in there was no running water,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> right?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Right.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> N</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">o e</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">lectricity. Did you ever have a </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">telephone?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">That's another little story. My mother, her relatives lived in Wallace, Idaho, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> her uncle, aunt and u</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ncle, her </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">u</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ncle was a master carpenter. And they were very close and would come down to visit us and they</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> were very </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">helpful.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">When</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> we were, when</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> my folks were just starting out, they were a backbone to help them out as </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">much as they could. They bought </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">eggs from them and they'd ship them. I have some letters that my mother saved </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">of that period in time. You may </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">be interested in some of those.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Anyway, they woul</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">d come down, and after my dad--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">after he had this basement hou</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">se built, they was able to save </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">u</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">p enough in about 10 years to--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Josh </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Pentabaker</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> was</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> my uncle's granduncle's name--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">was the main carpenter.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And they arranged to buy a load of lumber from a lumber yard or </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">a sawmill</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> up </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">in </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Bickleton</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">, and they rented a </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">truck or got somebody to haul this load of lumber down. And this Josh </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Pentabaker</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> and my dad, and I think he got </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">some local help, to get started on building a hou</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">se above to replace that tent--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ac</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">tually a tent house that we had </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">above the basement house.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And then they enlarged it also. They made the basement twice as large to accommodate a more modern house.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> A</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">nd that was in 1933 or 1934. And I think it was 1934 before we occupied it. An</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">d that included indoor bathroom </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">and running water.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> In the meantime, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">efore my dad was able to build a dig a new well up on top of the hill, he had to go down 60 feet for groundwater.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And so that was quite a project. But he finally got it done. And he got an electri</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">c motor then. By that time, s</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ee, there was no </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ele</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ctricity until during Roosevelt</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> got the REA started, rural electricity or whatever the word is, REA.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And you got an electric pump to pump the water up into a tank. And then you had</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> pressure to run the water from </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">the tank into the house--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">had water pressure.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And so we had running water, we had an indoor bathroom, and those were qu</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ite appreciated. I think we got </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">electric stove--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">that was one of the first thing. And that was quite an improvement over a wood stove.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Oh, and then there was</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">. And he didn't have enough money, I don't believe</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">—oh, let me tell you,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> or let me go back just a bit.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Sure.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Josh </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Pentabaker</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> got this house pretty well built, but he had to go back and d</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">o his own work back in Wallace, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Idaho. And my dad negotiated with a carpenter here, a local carpenter, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Vanders</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">ant</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">-- he was a Dutchman. And my </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">dad traded a cow, a milk cow for this fell</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">a to put in a--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">he was a master </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">carpenter, too.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">He put in the kitchen cabinets</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> is what I'm trying to say, and some of the other cabinets in the bathroom a</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">nd things </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">like that in exchange for this cow. Now, there may have been other things involved, but that was the main thing.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> H</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">e told about that in later years, and I can vaguely remember.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">In addition to the basement then, we got a root cellar where we kept most of our </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">things cold. But anyway, before </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">he could get a refrigerator, he cut a hole in the wall of the kitchen and</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> he</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> made a cab</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">inet inside, and hung outside a </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">metal tank or a metal thing that held water.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And then he ran do</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">wn some gunnysack fabric and that</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> wetted enough to evaporate </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">and cool the cabinet inside. It </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">was quite a contraption.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">But it worked enough that it probably wasn't much cooler than the basement, b</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ut anyway, it was up and it was </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">handy. So that was when we--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">in 1934 I think that we occupied the house that's there now.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Did you ever have a telephone during the time you were there?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Yeah, we had a phone. You cranked it. I'm trying to think whether we had i</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">t when we lived in the basement</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">whether we had it there or not. It was a party line, and there would be three or fo</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ur people on the same line. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">you answered according to how many rings. If it was two rings it was yours, or </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">a short and a long or something </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">like that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And of course people listened in on what</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> was going on. We had a crank--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> yo</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">u cranked it up in order to </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">make the signal. And there was a main station downtown. We were three mil</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">es from the downtown area up on </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">what is now George Washington Way. And what's the name of that street? I can't</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> remember all those--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">the house </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">was on--</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Spangler?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Spangler, yeah. Spangler</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Road. We had to--you kept up--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Dad kept up with what was available.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Mm-hm.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">How about news? Was there a newspaper, or how did you learn about--</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">There was. There was the Benton County Advocate came out once a week. In fact, I think I stil</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">l have some copies </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">of that somewhere. It was mostly local, of course. Somebody was entertaining a</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> company from Wallace, Idaho or </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">somewhere, or somebody was sick in the hospital.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Ed </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Peddicord</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> was the--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">as I remember, he was older than myself but younger than</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> my parents, and he became the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">first postmaster when the Hanford project took over, and he was the postmaster </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">for quite a few years before he </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">retired from the Richmond Post Office.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I wanted to ask you about the school that you went to. Where was the school? Any memories you have?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Okay,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">t</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">here were, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">in the downtown area of Richland, the--I'm trying to relate it to--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">t</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">he grade school went from grade </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">one through grade eight. And it was two story with four classrooms on the bottom</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> and four on the upper level. I </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">think they had electric lights, as </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I remember. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">The floors were wood floors, and they treated them with oil before school was started and at Christmas vacation.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So w</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">hen you came back from school--they'd wipe them up, the oil--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">they'd treat the wood floors. They</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">'d wipe up </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">the oil before classes started, but there would still be all these spots left on it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And so we had to take our shoes off when we came home at night because we woul</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">d track oil, that oil. That was </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">just for a few weeks or for a week or two.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And the stoves had a jacket around. O</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">f course they were--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I believe they were c</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">oal stove--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">they that coal. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">there would be a jacket around, a metal jacke</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">t around the outside to it,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">a couple of feet from the stove </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">itself so the kids couldn't get up and get burned.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">But the jacket that surrounded them was probably three or four feet high,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> metal jacket. And we would—I </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">remember hanging our white gloves things on that metal jacket to dry them out. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And that was in the back of the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">room of course. That was your heat in the classroom.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">As I said, the bathrooms for boys and girls,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> most of them separate of course,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> were outside where you went out to t</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">he bathroom. And I don't recall </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">any running water or anything in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">—</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">The</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> other, the</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> high school was, it wasn't torn do</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">wn when the project started,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Hanford projec</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">t, right away. And it was built </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">more--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">it had indoor bathrooms, was more up-to-date</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">, more than the grade school,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> four l</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">evels. There are pictures of it </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">in my booklet. So that was quite a step up.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Do you remember any of the teachers from either school, or do you have any favorite teachers from that time?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Oh yeah. I remember most of my teachers. My first grade teacher, Ms. Randolp</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">h, older lady. And she was very </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">good. I can remember putting our mittens up around that canopy around the stove in the wintertime, p</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ut your </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">mittens up to dry.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> And</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> I can't offhand remember, but I can visualize most of my teachers.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">There was Mrs.--Miss Mallory--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">she was single then. Taught me in fourth grade. And th</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ere was Bill Ra</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">der, our eighth </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">grade teacher. Kind of he was a pretty good disciplinarian. If people got out of line</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> he had a paddle that he didn't </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">mind using.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> There was--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I can't think of the names, really, offhand. And then of course, in the</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> high school I remember more of </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">the teachers that I had. The superintendent, he also taught a few classes in</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> b</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ecause the grade school had one </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">class of every grade level.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I started in the first grade, I was five years old, and I became six in November. An</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">d the kids that I started with, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">about half of the 20--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I think there w</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ere 20 in my graduating class--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">about half of </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">them were the ones I started in </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">first grade with. That's how permanent the group was. There was a lot of permanency.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> And we moved onto this--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">where each grade you had the same ones, you knew the people. There would be two</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">or three changes each year. And like I said, of those 20 or so that started, probably</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> about half of those in my high </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">school class were the ones I started first grade with.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And so</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> we knew each other very well. And the o</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">thers I'd known quite well, too. My wife, she came later and </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">joined when </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">she was in about seventh or eighth grade I</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> think, and she graduated two--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I grad</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">uated in 1940 and she graduated </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">in 1942. And in my graduat</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ing class there was 20, and her</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">s there was only 12. I don't know why particularly.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">The high school, it was in freshman year you usually took</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> T</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">yping and it pretty wel</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">l diversified. History classes, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">English classes. I can r</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">emember the teachers, Mrs. Deighton</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> and Mrs. Carmicha</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">el. She's the one that got very </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">emotional when the kids acted up and would carry on.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Mr. Carmichael was the superintendent, and Mr. Whitehead</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">, rather</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">. We had basket</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ball teams. We played against--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Kennewick and Pasco were out o</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">f our league. They were from too</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> big a town. So w</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">e played Benton City. I played--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">even though I'm pretty short, I was on the basketball team.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">We didn't have a football team. We weren't big enough.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> The high school was onl</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">y--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">with four classes, probably </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">only 80 students altogether. And so I was on the basketball team the last couple years anyway.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> And we would go up to--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Hanford was about 20 miles u</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">p</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">river, and White Bluffs. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">They were</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> a</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> comparative size. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">to Benton City, and also to Finley. We used to call it Riverview then. It was a comp</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">arative size to what we were in </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Richland at that time.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So we had a group that we played softball league and basketball. No football that</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> I can remember. We weren't big </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">enough to be in that.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And did you take a school bus to get to and from school then, or how did you--</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Yes. We had--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">as I said, Art Hackney had a school bus that they owned their own scho</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ol bus. They had a contract </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">with the district. And there's a picture of myself and my two sisters in that booklet </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I gave you, waiting for the bus </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">and there's a picture of the bus.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> It was kind of a--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">it looks kind of obsolete now, but that was the way they did things then.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So you graduated high school in 1940.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">1940. Then I went off to Cheney for a year. And decided I</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> wanted to--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">didn't want to continue t</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">here. I wanted to--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I thought I </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">wanted to be an engineer, but I didn't have really the background from the school. At least I could blame it on that.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So I transferred to Pullman in my sophomore year. And during beginning of my juni</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">or year, I was taken in--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I was </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">in the ROTC and we signed up for deferm</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ent or whatever you call it, bu</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">t they said we could finish out the year</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> we </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">were in during my sophomore year. No, it must h</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ave been my junior year. That’s</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> the third year.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">But it</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> turned out that they couldn't—they took us,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> they drafted us and I think it was about Januar</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">y of my junior year in Pullman, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">from WSU.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And at that time I was a member of Sigma Chi.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So was that January of 1943 then?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Yeah, it was.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">At some </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">point that year, of course the F</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ederal government started constructing the Hanford site.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Right. I came home before--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">they allowed us, when they called up the ROTC, fellas in Pullman,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> they gave us a </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">couple weeks to come home and see our folks.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So I came home, it must have been th</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">e end of January of 1943. And saw</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> m</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">y folks, and said goodbye to my </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">sweetheart, Betty Kins</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">e</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">y</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> was her name--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">became my wife.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And after I went back then, I went back to Pullman, and they took us shortly by </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">train from Pullman over to Fort </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Lewis. And it was an old, real old train that I mention in my booklet that looked l</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ike it was one from the pioneer </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">days.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> There was a--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I don't need to go into all the detail, but there was a coal-burning stove</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> in the end of this railway car </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">for heat, and we went over there in the first of February to Fort Lewis. We were not</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> in the army until they took us </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">over there and were forced in it at Fort Lewis.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And shortly after that, I got word from my folks that the word had come out that H</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">anford and</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> White Bluffs and </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">even Richland, it was all going to be taken over by the government for this Hanford project.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And that was in, I believe they got word in late February. And the people up at Ha</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">nford, which is, of course, is </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">where the actual reactors were, were notified and given about 30 days to evacuate.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">my folks, of course, we lived--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">my dad was the manager of the irrigation distr</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ict at that time, of </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">the Richland </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">irrigation district. And they had more time because that was where the workers</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> were going to live. But in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">meantime they built Camp Hanford out here where we are sitting about right now, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">and maybe just a little further </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">n</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">orth.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And you probably have the history of Camp Hanford and all that. But anyway, th</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ey were allowed to stay I think </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">about six months, whereas the others further up where the reactors were being built, they had to get out quick.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And so my folks looke</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">d around. They bought a place. M</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">y dad, by that time, they offered s</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ome of the people </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">work. Most of them were farmers and they wanted to continue farming. And that wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">s my dad. He, by that time, the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">kids were gone. I wa</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">s the youngest. The other two, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">my sisters</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> were married and off and living on their own.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So he decided he'd go back to farming, and they offered him a job to see to some of</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> the irrigation, the way it was </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">continued. But he decided he didn't want to do that. And a number of people did take jobs here for temporary.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So where was I now?</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So your family had six months you said after they were--</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Yeah, about six months. They found a place in Kennewick</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> then</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">, and my dad then bought some place and he put in a</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">fruit orchard over on what became Blossom Hill in Kennewick.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And we took over </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">the old hous</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">e. When I got out of the Army--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I told you about that </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">in my booklet </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">here</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> that</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> we took </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">over their house, the two-story house that was on what's now where Denny'</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">s is at the corner of Kennewick </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Avenue and the Umatilla Highway.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Do you know how much money your parents were given for their--</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">In those days, at that time, the government was not as benevolent in their takeover o</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">f land. And they did not really </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">offer what the land was worth. So my folks, my dad was one of the leaders of the gr</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">oup that took</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> them</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> to court over </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">the offer.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And this lingered on for quite a while, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">because my dad was one of the--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">as a manager </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">of the irrigation district. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">John Dam that the park</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> is</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> named after, and two or three others, they figured that t</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">hey were being offered what the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">land had sold for in D</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">epression days, which had just been more or less begun to get over in 1943.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And my folks and others were beginning to feel established</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> that here they'd worked </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">most of their working lives for </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">12, 15 years getting to where they felt like they were established and could make </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">a good living. And now they </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">were being offered this, where they had to leave relatively quickly. And not being </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">offered enough to buy something </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">comparable in other areas, where they found they had to pay more than what they had been offered.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So this went to court and drug on for a while. They did get a settlement that my d</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ad was involved in. But it took </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">quite</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> a while and it still did not--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">they were not too happy about it. I'll put it that way. But anyway, they got over it.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And so you heard about this happening when you were at Fort Lewis?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Yeah,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> I was still in the service. I was sent from there to Camp Roberts for infantry </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">training. And I was there until </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">June. See, this happened--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I was taken in up in February I guess it was, a</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">nd we had 13 weeks, almost four </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">months</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> I think it was</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> of infantry training there in Camp Roberts in the desert in California.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And then I was sent back to New Yo</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">rk City. I had an opportunity--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">then they </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">took some people to specialized </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">training or a specialized training program called ASTP and I was able to get </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">into that because of my college </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">background and I passed some tests, I guess, and so forth.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And so I was back there at the time and at Camp Roberts in California at the t</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ime that all this took place in </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Richland, and their dislocation and--</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Do you remember what you thought at the time when you found out?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">What I thought about that? About all this happening you mean?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Well, so much was happening, you didn't have time to think too much about it</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">. Because I was involved in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">training and we were kept busy night and day pretty much, and then the infant</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ry training camp and being back </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">there.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">But I heard about it. They kept me up on it, and there wasn't much you could do about it, and neither could they,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">because that was it. You could appeal, but that was a </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">long process, the appeal was. So they</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> just </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">took </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">a time to get over it.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">They got over it eventually.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Are there any events or things from your childhood growing up in Richland </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">that sort of stand out? Special </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">memories that we haven't talked about yet?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Probably quite a few things.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> A number of things I mention </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">in his booklet that I gave you. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">One thing I particularly remember as a kid was I had this pony, and my neighbor ki</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ds had ponies too, or else work </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">horses that did the job.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And so we could roam around quite a bit. We had a lot of freedom. We all had rifle</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">s. We went out hunting. And the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">jackrabbits were quite numerous</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> I remember. Going just about a mile from whe</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">re we are now, there was a sand </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">hill over here off of Stevens Drive, which we call</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ed</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Pol</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">e L</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ine Drive. Those days th</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ere was a sand hill over there. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And there was an irrigation ditch that ran along this sand hill. And we'd go in and </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">the boys--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">take our clothes off </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">and we'd swim in this irrigation canal. There was a flume there, too, and that was kind o</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">f an interesting thing to go </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">through. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And we would take our rifles, and there was one farm that was close to this s</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">and hill called--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I'm trying to </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">remember the name now, Sam's. Anyway,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> he had a--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">his farm was right adjacent to the open sagebrush land and sand hi</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ll. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And if </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">you were there in the evening--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">he had an alfalfa field right along the edge of</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> this sort of a desert area. At </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">certain times in the dusk, there'd be whole bunche</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">s of jackrabbits would come in. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I remember we would go there with our rifles, and my friends, Dan Barnett and </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Richard Hackney and I, and we'd </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">wait for dusk. And you could shoot these rabbits. And of course Mr. Sandberg I </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">think his name-</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> yeah, Sandberg </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">was his name, he welcomed anybody that would get rid of the jackrabbits for him because they</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> were destroying </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">his alfalfa field. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And so we'd shoot a</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> bunch of jackrabbits. And they di</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">d have jackrabbit drives once in</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> a while, and they had pictures </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">of them. I might have s</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ome in some of my folks' stuff. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">But anyway, we had ponies or horses and we'd go out, and sometimes we'd</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> go up the river from here, Dan </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Barnett and Richard Hackney and I. And as I said, I had a pony that had been </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">caught on the open range and he </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">could outru</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">n practically any horse around. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">We would go up there and we'd camp out for a day and we would find some old p</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">rospectors up there. They would </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">be panning for gold. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> I don’t think,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> from the looks of them </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">that</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> they found very much, but they wer</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">e interesting characters that'd </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">tell you stories about their life. And we kind of envied them a little bit, but nob</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ody wanted to do what they were </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">doing. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Anyway, then we would</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> go up there and we'd camp over</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">night. Othe</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">r times, we would go up there--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I said that my</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">folks and the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Barnetts</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> and the Hackneys had-- we had a boom in the river. We'd catch </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">driftwood coming down for </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">our--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">did I tell you about this before?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">No.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>: </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">No, o</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">kay</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">. If I ramble, tell me. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">We'd go up, my folks or my dad and the ot</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">her men, we would have wagons--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">w</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">e'd hook the work horses to the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">wagons. And we'd take enough food to last a couple days. And </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">us</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> boys woul</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">d go along, and some other boys </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">were old enough to help, and some of us were too young to do much, but to </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">tag along and have a good time. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And we'd go up there and we'd set up a camp, and the men would have a log boom up there. They'd att</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ach logs </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">to each other and run them out into the water. And when the water would rise in the s</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">pring</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> it would lift these drift </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">logs from upstream, clear up around where Grand Cooley is now, before Grand</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Cooley was built and any other </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">dams. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And these drift logs would drift down, if you had a log boom out you'd catch them</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">, as the water would--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">the high </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">water from the snow melt. And if your log boom was out far enough, you'd get a w</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">hole bunch of logs in there and </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">that would be--which</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> then we'd go up and the men would take their team of hors</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">es and use their chains to pull </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">these logs out of the water that h</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ad been caught in the log boom. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And then they'd have to cut them up enough to put on their wagons to haul them</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> down home. And this would take </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">two or three days to do. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">In the meantime, us kids, the younger ones, we'd have a great time with shooting</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> rabbits and doing some fishing </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">off what was left of the log boom. And fixing our hot dogs over the campfi</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">re. It was quite an experience. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And we all wanted to go. I think the girls envied us. They couldn't go. I don't r</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">emember any of the women going. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">But when they got the wag</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ons loaded, they had </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">them all--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I remember they had s</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ideboards on them, so that they </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">would be loaded up to the maximum.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And of course the roads weren't too good. The horses would be really worn out</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> by the time we got these loads </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">down to where we lived. And we'd have to wash them off, rinsing the horses off wi</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">th a hose because they'd be all </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">that, and it would be quite late in the </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">evening before we made it home. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So that was quite a big event in our lives, and especially for the young fellas like us,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> we thought that was great. I'm </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">sure the m</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">en folks were glad it was over. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">[LAUGH</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">TER</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">]</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So we had quite a few trips where we went out. I had a friend, Scotty who lived o</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ut in Yakima River, and I would </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">go over--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">he was the one that I think I told you about the time tha</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">t--maybe it was in my booklet. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">About the time that our well--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">the well that we dug up on the top of the hill, the 60 foot well, it had been real cold</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">that winter, and usually the well didn't freeze, but it froze that winter. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> so</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Scotty, my friend, he was the adventurer</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">more so than I was. He said, oh, I can go take a blowtorch down there and thaw i</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">t out. Well, he did. My dad led </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">hi</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">m down this well. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">The well was hand dug and it was only about so big around. And there were iron </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">steps put in the cement as they </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">went down. As I said, it was 60 feet deep. Of course the water stood up in it about 20 </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">feet or so. It would fluctuate. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So Scotty went down with a blowtorch to thaw this pipe out because it had f</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">rozen the pump. And he got down </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">there and I guess the confines of the gas or something, it exploded, and</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> he was lucky he wasn't killed. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">He made it. Somehow it went upward rather than downward and he was able to get</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> out. But his face was black </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">an</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">d his eyebrows were singed off. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And he was quite a mess from that occasion, but he didn't have to be hospitali</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">zed. They put cream on his face </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">and I don't remember whether they got the pipe thawed out or not. I don't think so. I </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">think it took a few days before </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">it got the water up.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So if someone was to ask you what it was like to grow up in a community like Ric</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">hland, how would you respond to </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">that? What would you say?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">It was an interesting place to grow up because you were involved in all the acti</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">vities. You were important as a </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">member of the family. There were chores to do. You also had interesting experie</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">nces. You had time to play with </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">your neighbors and develop your own activities and s</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ports to a great extent. I guess probably I</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> look back on it more with rose-colored glasses than it actual</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ly was, because I'm sure it was </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">harder for the adults, too. B</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ecause it was kind of touch and go for them many ti</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">mes. There was no WPA or relief </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">organizations. People helped their nei</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ghbors out when they needed it. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I can remember a family that lived not too far from us. The man, the husband</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> died, and they had some fairly </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">young children, the</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Fraz</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">iers</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">. And</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> the wife was left with these--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I forgot how</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> young </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">they were--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">two or three </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">yo</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ungsters, and their small farm. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And the people of the community just helped out. There was no other organizatio</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">n that they knew of. And later, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Bruce Frasier who was in that family, who was about my age. He wasn't a classmate</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">, but he told me years later at </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">the reunions we used to have, he said, did you know-- [EMOTIONAL] did you </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">know how much help your mom and </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">dad did--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I'm sorry.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">It's all right.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">How much help your mom and dad gave my folks. And I said I had no idea. He </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">told me that my dad and mother, </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">and others--he said it wasn't just them</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">. But they're the ones that made it possible for</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> him to survive. And this, they </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">didn't talk about it at all. Excuse me, cut it o</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ff a minute? Wipe my eyes here. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I'm glad to get this opportunity. Don't take me wrong.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> That’s all right.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> I am glad to get the opportunit</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">y to talk. There's not too many </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">people who want to listen to it.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Can I have a little drink?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Sure. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I think we're just about finished anyway. I think we've covered a lot of the things that I wanted to cover.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">All right.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So I guess is there anything else that we haven't covered that would be important to talk about?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I think we've covered everything pretty well. I've probably gone side-tracked a</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> lot. And it was a role in that </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">community, as I said,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> that</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> they did help each other out in many ways. And that</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> they're very independent, too. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And there aren't too many of us left. We still get to have a reunion. We did-- it's get</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ting down to where there aren't </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">very many of us left. Last year we met at the Old Country Buffet and </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">had a good time. I think there may h</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ave been </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">about 20 of us. But about half of them were descendants, children that brought th</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">eir parents, who needed help to </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">get there.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Oh, okay.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">So this is a reunion of people from Richland?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">The old time Richland,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> yeah, they lived in old time Richland.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">There's another-- the D</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">eranleau, Ray Deranleau</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">, he was quite a storyteller, he stil</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">l lives here, and he was just a </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">year or two younger than myself. And Alice Perkins i</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">s his wife, Alice Perkins-Deranleau.</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> And I kind of think </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">he'd be in the phone book. If not</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">—</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">And Price Colley. George Colley his name was, but there's a Colley family that h</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">e was there last year, and he's </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">quite a storyteller.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> [LAUGHTER]</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">About</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> w</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">hat time of year do you usually get together?</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Usually in the middle of September.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Oh,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">o</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">kay</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>: Middle to late September. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Edith--</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I used to be the one that was in charge of getting the literature out and th</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">e reunion</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">s</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> set up. Anyway, Edith </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">Wie</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">d</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">l</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span class="SpellingError SCX24634405">e</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">-H</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">ansen,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> H-A-N-S-E-N</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">,</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> is the one that is doing it now. She was in my </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">wife's class two or three years </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">behind me in graduating from hig</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">h school. And she's still here. </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I could maybe give you some more information on that later, if you wanted to cal</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">l me.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> Yeah.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> I don't know, if you have </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">trouble.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I just want to thank you very much for coming in today and being willing--</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">I enjoyed it.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">--to</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> have</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> me asking questions.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Fletcher</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">Okay</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">. I hope that some of </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">it</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">’</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">s</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> good use.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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<p class="Paragraph SCX24634405"><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Bauman</span>:</span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405"> </span><span class="TextRun SCX24634405">You've been very helpful. Thank you very much.</span><span class="EOP SCX24634405"> </span></p>
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Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
01:22:15
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1922-2013
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Hess, Morton
Dam, John
Nelson, Victor
Supplee, Sam
Barnett, Dan
Pentabaker, Josh
Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945
Peddicord, Ed
Hackney, Art
Hackney, Richard
Kinsey, Betty
Frasier, Bruce
Ray Deranleau
George Colley
Bit Rate/Frequency
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171 kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Robert Fletcher
Description
An account of the resource
An interview with Robert Fletcher conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by the Mission Support Alliance and the United States Department of Energy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
7/20/2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Date Modified
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2016-05-25: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Richland (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
White Bluffs (Wash.)
Richland (Wash.). Public Schools
Hunting
Kennewick (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Richland (Wash.)
swimming
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a2598d933b17d283d40105588e7d7ddf
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F66d4925a2f29afc5b4b3d23f95a80a5d.mp4
5b50c149f78db5cd96a35569232c6bb8
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Post-1943 Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with residents about the Hanford area during and following the Second World War
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Laura Arata
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Vanis Daniels
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
<p>Laura Arata: That’s the more comforting way to look at it. [LAUGHTER] Oh, are we ready?</p>
<p>Man One: Yup.</p>
<p>Arata: Oh, okay, so we're ready to get started. If we could just start by having you say your name and then spell it for us.</p>
<p>Vanis Daniels: Vanis Daniels, V-A-N-I-S, D-A-N-I-E-L-S. And that’s the second.</p>
<p>Arata: Thank you. My name's Laura Arata. It's November 14, 2013 and we are conducting this interview on the campus of Washington State University, Tri-Cities. So I wonder if we could just start by having you tell us a little bit about when you first arrived at Hanford, who you came with, where you came from, that initial experience.</p>
<p>Daniels: Oh, boy. I arrived, well, let's say I arrived in the Tri-Cities. My dad came here in '43 and worked here off and on until '51 when he moved the family here. Now, between the time he first came here in '43, he, my uncle, and cousin of ours helped pour the first mud that was poured to start the B Reactor. And then, after that, he worked here off and on until '51, when he brought the family out. And I was just a little—barely a teenager when I came here in '51. I was a sophomore in high school. I was supposed to graduate in 1954. At that time, you had to be 17-and-a-half years old in order to graduate from high school. Well, see, I was just turning 16. So then when I got ready to graduate, the vice principal came to me and he says, you can't graduate. I said, why can't I graduate? He says, you're not old enough. I said, oh? What's that got to do would graduation? He say, you're only 16. You have to be 17-and-a-half years old to graduate from high school. Well, it didn't make any sense to me, you know, if I got the grade point and all that and able to graduate. And he say, well, let me ask you a question. And I said, yes? He says, if you graduate, what are you going to do for the next year and a half? I said, I don't know. He say, you're not old enough to get a job. Nobody's going to hire you. He say, so you're just going to be whiling away your time. I said, well, I guess. He says, I'll tell you what, I'll make a deal with you. He say, you come back to school next year. He say, because you're not going to be doing anything. He say, you can come as many hours as you want to. If you can find you a little part time job or something like that, you're free to leave to go and work. And you don't have any restrictions on you, you know, as far as having to be there every day. I told him, okay. So that's what I did. But that's when I really started appreciating school. Because up until that point, I had been an A student, but where I came from--I came from Texas, by the way. I was born in a place called Terrell, Texas, but that's all I know about it. We moved to East Texas, which is a little place called Kildare, which is right out of Texarkana. I personally lived in Oklahoma during those eight or ten years that I was there, and then back to Texas and then to the Tri-Cities here.</p>
<p>But being from the south, I went to an all-black school, segregated. And I didn't know anything about interacting with other races. And when I came here, nobody gave you a—I wouldn't call it a crash course, but I'd say interaction—it has a name for it—But anyway, they just threw you into the school with everyone else. And you had to learn to adjust. Well, that can be kind of hard. And it can also be kind of devastating. So my grade point dropped, but not to the point where I didn't graduate. And I see some kids right now that I went to school with that--I see them every once in a while--and if they hadn't been there to sort of support me, hold me up, I might would have fallen all the way through the crack. I might would have dropped out of school altogether. But they were—let's see, one retired from Franklin County. I don't know what the other three girls did as far as work go. But for some reason, they sort of took me under their wing, and I guess boost my morale or whatever you want to call it. And I was able to transition in and go on and finish school. After I finished school, I tried for ten years, 12 years really, to get a job at Hanford. And for some reason, they didn't want to hire me. I went to Seattle, tried to get a job at Boeing. They didn't want to hire me. I have, later in life since I retired, I learned why I didn't get a job at Hanford or Boeing, as far as that go. The people that I thought would be my biggest asset became my biggest enemy as far as getting a job. Because when you're asked for references and you put people down, I asked them if I could put them down, I let them know that I was putting them down for references and all this stuff. But the things that they put down there hindered me from getting a job rather than helping me get a job. And I learned this since I retired. But needless to say, I worked construction. I finally got a job--an interview--for Battelle. Meissinger was his name that interviewed me. And I must've gone out there for an interview the better part of a dozen times. And every time I'd go, he'd tell me, well, we don't have anything right now. In June of '66, he called me for an interview and I went out. And I'm working every day, working construction, when you leave work on construction, that's when your pay stop. I had a wife and a kid by then. And I went out one evening because he told me, he said, I'll stay here until 7 o'clock. You get of work, you come out. I told him, okay. So I got off, went home, took a shower, when out, talked with him. And I think he was about to tell me that he didn't have a position, ‘til I told him, I said, let me tell you something. I said, now, if you're not going to hire me, tell me now because I can't keep making arrangements, taking off work and all that stuff, coming out here just to sit and talk with you. I need a job. He says, just a minute. I don't know who--he left the room. He went and talked with someone. When he came back, he say, when can you come to work? I don't know. Whenever you want me to. He said, can you come Thursday? I told him yes. So I went out on Thursday.</p>
<p>They interviewed me, gave me a permit, which was a red badge at the time, to go to work. I started as a janitor in the 3706 and 3707 building in the 300 Area. They transferred me from there to Two East and Two West. From Two East and Two West, they gave me a job in what was called Decon at the time. We did all of the glassware, all of the pigs--which is not a literal pig. It's a iron cast. You know, you can get the gallon, half gallon, or quarts. And it contains radioactive waste on the inside. The pig is just to shield the radiation. And we handled all of the hot water from the 300 Area. So I worked in there for two and a half years or so. And we took care of all the waste, did all the filter changing and everything in 300 Area. From there, I went to 100-F, to inhalation toxicology. And inhalation toxicology is just a matter of inhaling and exhaling is what it is. But I worked with the dogs, which at the time, Battelle was doing an experiment on the effect that cigarette smoke had on the human body. We worked with beagle dogs because at that time, they said that the closest thing to a human’s physique was the beagle. A grownup beagle weighs anywhere from 15 pounds to I think the heaviest one we had was probably 47 pounds--which is a wide range for a dog, but the human anatomy is also a wide range. 15-pound dog would be equivalent to 130-pound man. A 47-pound dog would be equivalent to 350-pound man. And every three months, we sacrificed a dog. And we did everything from blood, urine, feces, muscles, tissue, everything. We learned everything we could about cigarette smoke on what effect it would have on the dogs. The dogs smoked two packs of cigarettes a day. Now, we had dogs that got addicted to cigarettes. And they were just like humans, chain smoke if you allowed them to. Then you had dogs that could not stand smoke, period, and they would fight it all the way through. But you had to give them the equivalent of two packs of cigarettes a day. Okay, we had hamsters that we shammed with cigarette smoke. We also did plutonium on them to see what effect it would have on the organs, on the inside of the body. And I worked in there until I got kind of fed up with supervision at the time because we weren't getting the raises that we should as far as finances go. And when you got a family you got to take care of, $2 just don't get it. So meanwhile, I talked with supervision and they say they didn't have money for raises. But yet and still, they're turning back money every year to DOE, which was set aside for raises. They just weren't giving it out. Well, at that time, they had what they call merit raises. And I worked second shift. I very seldom saw my supervisor. And so I asked him, I say, if I very seldom see you, I must be doing a good job. Because otherwise, you should be here checking on me to see what I'm doing. I later learned that one of the guys that worked in my department had told him that he had to recheck all of my work every morning when he came in, to make sure that I was doing it right. Well, see, that wasn't his position. He's an employee like I am. The other thing is that if the supervisor had just used a little bit of common sense, he would have known the man was lying. Because when you pull samples, the minute you pull the sample, it starts to decay. Now you would have had some variation in my results and his results if he's going to run my sample the next morning to tell me that I'm not doing it right. And he's getting the same results I'm getting. Something's wrong with this picture. Well, anyway, as it turned out, I told him I couldn't work for them if that's the way there were going to do things. So I quit.</p>
<p>The day I left from out there, I went home and I was sitting at home. And thinking, boy, I just quit my job. I got to get me a job. I went up to my sister's house and my brother-in-law was home. And I said, what are you doing home? He say, today is Veteran's Day. And also, it used to be Election Day, the 11th of November. And he say, I'm off. And so we sat round and talked for a few minutes. He say, would you be interested in leaving Hanford and going to work someplace else? He didn't know I'd quit. [LAUGHTER] I say, why, sure. He say, I got a guy you need to go and see. He told me where it was and everything. And the next day, I went looking for it. I drove right by the office and didn't find it. I went back and when he came in from work, I said, I--he say, you passed right by it. He says, it's a little building. I says, okay. The next day I went, the guy that became my supervisor wasn't in. But the secretary knew who I was when I got there. So I didn't get to see him that day. But the next day, they told me what time to come back. I went back, I walked in the door. He say, so you're looking for a job. I say, yes, I am. He says, come on back here in my office. So we went back to his office and, meanwhile, he's talking and asking me some questions. He's saying, I know your brother-in-law real well. He say you’re a heck of a nice guy. I say, he did? You say, yeah. When we get in the door and he closed the door, he say, you got the job if you want it. But I got to go through the motion of interviewing you. I says, okay. So I worked there at the Tank Farm in Pasco, which we distributed petroleum products, fertilizers, and fire retardant for forest fires. And I worked there just two or three months shy of 16 years. I went back to Hanford after that and went to work for Westinghouse. From there, Bechtel took over. I became supervisor. I worked in every area out there, decommissioning all of the buildings, the outer buildings, the 105s, tore down the 103s, basins. You name it, we did it. Took care of all the asbestos, worked in the asbestos department of the Tank Farm. They're talking about, now, where the tanks are leaking and all that stuff. We took care of all the above ground asbestos and stuff there for them. And I worked there until I retired in '97.</p>
<p>Arata: What year was this that you quit your job, your first job with Battelle?</p>
<p>Daniels: In '71.</p>
<p>Arata: And so then, what year was it that you went back to work at Hanford for Westinghouse?</p>
<p>Daniels: '89.</p>
<p>Arata: Okay. Well, it sounds like you had quite an array of jobs between all those sites.</p>
<p>Daniels: I've done some more besides that. [LAUGHTER] I owned my own restaurant for a little while in Spokane out at Airway Heights. I went in the service. I was at my basic training in Fort Ord, California. When I finished my advanced basic, I had run into a captain. I didn't know him, but I knew his family from Pasco. And I was talking to him and I had been home on leave and I had seen his mother. And I was telling him that she was doing fine, I'd just seen her and all that stuff. And when I finished my advanced basic, he was there and he ask me, he says, I got several places you can go if you want to, he said. Which ones do you want? I could've gone to a special forces in Chicago. I didn't think I wanted to go there. It get too cold there for me. [LAUGHTER] I could've gone to Presidio in San Francisco. I don't like San Francisco. I could've gone to Germany. I didn't want to go at that time. I could've gone to Fort Lawton, or I could've gone to Fort Lewis. I chose Fort Lewis. So I went there. And I liked Fort Lewis for some reason, although we were in the field most of the time. But I'm an outdoor person anyway. We got transferred from Fort Lewis to Germany. At the same time, the Vietnam War was breaking out. They took all of our officers and sent them to Vietnam. They took all of the personnel that had six months or less left to do, they extended them a year and sent them to Vietnam. All of them that had a year or better to do went to Vietnam. I had eight months left to do, so I didn't have to go. But they sent me from Germany back to Fort Lewis. And I trained the Milwaukee National Guard because they had activated them to take the 4th Division's place when they sent them to Vietnam. And I was sent back to Fort Lewis to train the Milwaukee National Guard. Once I got them trained, I got discharged. Three weeks after I got discharged, I got drafted again. [LAUGHTER] But I didn't have to go. I didn't have to go. For some reason, they decided they didn't want me. And those were some of the jobs I've had and some of the things I've done.</p>
<p>Arata: Wow, there's about a million things I want to ask you about but we have to start somewhere.</p>
<p>Daniels: Well--</p>
<p>Arata: I wonder if we can talk a little bit about kind of some of your early memories when you first arrived in the Tri-Cities area. And particularly, I'm interested in what your housing situation was like that and where you lived and what the community was like at that time.</p>
<p>Daniels: Okay. When we first arrived in the Tri-Cities--coming from east Texas, where you got greenery all around you, you know, it's like the west side of the state of Washington--and coming here to the desert, you just sort of get a sickening feeling. [LAUGHTER] To tell you the truth. But if you were black, you lived on the east side in Pasco, where I still--well, I live northeast Pasco, now, but that's by choice. Anything west of Second and Lewis in Pasco, well, it wasn't off limits—it was off limits as far as houses go. The banks or anything would not loan blacks money to buy homes. The finance company—which, at the time, Fidelity Savings and Loans was the biggest one in the Tri-Cities--would loan you money to buy an old, raggedy car with interest rates so high. But that's beside the point. When we came, my dad tried to borrow money to buy a house. He couldn't get any. He found a house and the lady that owned the house sold it to him on a contract. And she let the bank, BV, whatever you call them, hmph. Anyway, he paid his payments to the bank. So, therefore, I guess they would be the proprietor or whatever you call them. And in the agreement was that if he was three days late with the payment, they could foreclose on it and take the house. And the house was less than $10,000 at the time. They never took it, of course. But then he would always make sure that it was paid on the date that it was supposed to, if he had to haul me out of school long enough for the bank to open to go pay it and then go on to school. But other than that, kids are kids. And kids aren't prejudiced. We all played together. We had baseball, we did</p>
<p>Basketball, we had BB gun wars, which I don't know why some of us didn't get our eyes shot out. But we didn't. [LAUGHTER] And, let's see, you couldn't live in Kennewick if you were black. You didn't live in Richland because that was government and you had to work for the government in order to live out there. Well, up until probably '49, I think Mr. Newborn went to work out there in '49, which was the first black as far as know that ever worked in processing at Hanford. They only thing, blacks could work construction out there and help build it, but they couldn't help operate it, which—it still baffles me to this day, but that's just the way it was. Signs of the times, I guess you would call it and ignorance on a lot of people's part, as far as that go.</p>
<p>Arata: So you graduated from high school, then, in Pasco.</p>
<p>Daniels: Mm-hmm.</p>
<p>Arata: Do you remember about how many students were in your high school and approximately how many of you were black versus the white students?</p>
<p>Daniels: Okay. There were—let’s see—three? The high school was built for 600 kids, I think, 500 or 600 kids. And the day that they opened the doors, it was already overcrowded as far as that go. And that's the Pasco High School they got there now. I was the first graduating class out of that school. There were 107 or 108 of us in the graduating class. And I think there's probably 25 or 30 of us that I know of. In fact, I just saw seven or eight of them a couple of weeks ago. One of our classmates passed away.</p>
<p>Arata: Do you recall any specific incidents, anything that stands out to you about your time. I'm curious, particularly about high school, because you've told us all these great stories about it--where race was an issue at Pasco High School when you were attending there.</p>
<p>Daniels: Yes. There were maybe, at the most, 13 black kids when I went to high school. Most of them were underclassmen. There was a couple or three upperclassmen. We had football players, basketball players and stuff like that that were starters, what you might want to say were the star of the team. When they would have homecoming, the football players got to escort the queen and her court and all that stuff. Black kids couldn't do it. They wouldn't allow it. Some of the kids have since told me and another friend of mine that passed away that whenever one of them--because I was small, so I didn't play basketball or football--but anyway, if one of them turned out for football, they tried to do everything they could to hurt them. They didn't want them on the field with them. They didn't want to play with them. If any of the black kids got any type of award or anything, it was never given to them during assemblies or anything like that. If it was white kids, they made a big to-do of it and he got it on stage, came up before the whole school and got it. Black kids, they gave it to him as he was leaving school one evening or something like that. But this is faculty doing this. This is not the kids doing stuff like this. My vice principal and my shop teacher I ran into one day, oh, years after I graduated from school. They were hunting agates. And I stopped and was talking to them. And they actually apologized to me for some of the things that went on. The vice principal told me, he says, I am so sorry. He said, there are things that went on that I dare not tell or divulge--two reasons. First of all, I had a wife and kids that I had to support. And if I told them anything that was going to advance you, then I'd be looking for a job. He say, and I am sorry, but the community as a whole, well, it's like the council now, you know. They tell you what to do and you more or less jump and do it. Or like the government, which I think we all ought to vote everybody up there out, but that's beside the point. [LAUGHTER] It's just the way it was. And then I could understand their positions, because if you've got a wife and kids that you've got to support, you got to look out for them and you in the process of whatever you're trying to do. Now there's another way that it could have been done. But at the same time, they probably did what they knew to do. And that's one thing I never fault anyone for. If you don't know how to do something or to do something, then I don't fault you for not doing it. Now my brother, which you will interview next week, is probably the first black to have a job in a department store in the Tri-Cities, or at least in Pasco, I know. Well, he'll tell you about it. I won’t try to tell you about him. [LAUGHTER]</p>
<p>But those are some of the things that we encountered. We walked every day from the east side of Pasco to Memorial Park, which was the only swimming pool in town within the last year. And at that time, there was probably 5,000 to 7,000 people in the whole of Pasco. They had one swimming pool. You got 80,000 to 100,000 people in Pasco now. You got one swimming pool. [LAUGHTER] Doesn't make any sense at all. But we walked over there every day to play baseball and go swimming if we wanted to go swimming. There weren't any park other than Sylvester Park and Memorial Park was the only two parks in town at the time. Later, they put the Boat Basin in down there at Pasco. But when we didn't have any place to play, other than going over there, then we started making our own baseball diamonds in vacant lots and things. And as the lots would be developed, they would—well, naturally, they'd run us out because there wasn't enough room for us to play. So one evening, we didn't have any place to play baseball and we wanted to play baseball. Two blocks from my house, where I grew up at was Kurtzman Park. Well, actually, it's a block and a half. But it was just a vacant field. And we took shovels, a bunch of my friends and me, and we went out there and we cleared all the tumbleweeds out, took the shovels and kind of levelled it off, and started playing baseball. A lady named Rebecca Heidelbar happened to come by there and see us. I don't know exactly what period of time, how long we'd been playing there. And she stopped and asked us if we had a park that we could play in. We told her no. We told her the only park was Memorial Park. She says, mm-hmm. And she talked to us for a minute. She left. Well, we later learned that she was an attorney, her husband was an attorney, her mom was an attorney, and her dad was an attorney. And that was Judge Horrigan and his wife, and then their daughter Rebecca. And then she had married an attorney. So she came back and asked us to get as many kids together as we could and she would meet with us. And she did. And she went to the courthouse, found out who the land belonged to where we were playing. She helped us to draft a letter to Mr. Kurtzman, which she found out lived in Seattle and ask him to donate enough land for us to have a baseball diamond. Well, it took him the better part of six months to answer us, but he get back to us because I suppose he had to look into the legal aspect of it. He got back to us and told us that he could not give any land to a special interest group or persons. He would donate six acres of land to the city if they named the park after him. That's how Kurtzman Park came into an existence. And there's a letter someplace that we wrote him with my name right on the top of it. But in the process of this, we got the land donated to us, the city of Pasco, as far as the city go. The only thing they did to get that park in there was they gave some used pipe that they had laying around out there at what we call the Navy Base, which is out by the airport. And the black parents went out there and broke all this pipe apart and everything, took it down to the park, actually took shovels--we took shovels--dug the trenches for the water system down there, put the pipe back together, put the water system in. The city did seed it. They did plant the trees. And they keep it up. But the Kurtzman building has a park right in the front of it that myself, my cousin, Mr. Louzel Johnson put up, free of charge, right where U-Haul is on Fourth Street and Pasco now, used to be a brick place where they made brick blocks, your cinder blocks. And they donated the blocks. We did the labor and put it up. At first, they named the park Candy Cane Park. And then we had to let them know that you can't do that. That park got to be named Kurtzman or else we don't have a place to play because that's the only way he would donate it, so that's the way we got that. Where Virgie Robinson's Elementary School is now, on Wehe and Lewis Street, used to be what we call the lizard hole because you get off and then had toad, frogs, and all that stuff down in there. And we'd we go down in there and get those frogs and stuff out of there and bust them because that's what we did. [LAUGHTER]</p>
<p>Arata: Just to clarify this, I just have this great mental image in my head of this group of kids running around playing baseball. Was that integrated at all? Were most of you African Americans? A little better sense of--</p>
<p>Daniels: Well, what we did was, like I say, we lived on what we called the East side. There was a bunch of white kids that lived over there. Right on the north side of Lewis Street was enough white kids that they had two baseball teams. We lived on the south side of Lewis Street. We had one baseball team. And we played each other every day. [LAUGHTER] Yeah. We had a lot of fun. We played each other every day. In fact, one of the kids--I haven't seen him in years--but I was catching. And he threw a ball. He threw that ball so hard it--because I was using a board for the plate--and it hit that board and hit me right there. And I later had to have a hernia operation. [LAUGHTER]</p>
<p>Arata: The scars of childhood.</p>
<p>Daniels: Oh, yeah. We had a lot of fun. We played, like I say, we did BB wars and all that stuff again. I don't know why we don't have eyes out or something, but none of us ever did. Used to dig holes, tunnels. And I know you've probably read here in later years here, where kids are digging tunnels on the beach and all that stuff and then they collapse on them and they suffocate and stuff. I don't know why that didn't happen to us either because we'd dig as far as we could underground. [LAUGHTER]</p>
<p>Arata: Wow, there's so many things I want to ask you about. If we could go back to your time at Hanford just a little bit. So you did have a bunch of different jobs over the broad course of time. Could you talk a little bit about sort of security, or secrecy, or safety, things like that? Did any of those things have a major impact?</p>
<p>Daniels: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Now security was at a point where that certain buildings, certain areas, you couldn't go in if you didn't have the clearance to go in them. One of the things that they especially emphasized was paperwork—security or classified documents and things. And documents was classified, like secret, top secret, and they had another one. But anyway, the way you knew which one was which was the border that was around it. Like, I think secret had a blue border. Top secret had a red border around it. Now, if you went in any building, and you saw that document laying anywhere unattended, you were to report it, stay right with that document until somebody of authority came and picked that document up. It wasn't supposed to be laying around any place. Again, if you didn't have the clearance, you weren't allowed in the buildings. They didn't allow you, even if you had the clearance, unless you had business in the building, then you wasn't supposed to go and fraternize and all that stuff, like, well, like first instance, my brother. The only time I went to see him or he came to see me was if there was an emergency at home and he got the message, he came and told me or vice versa. See, you just weren't allowed to do it. You were allowed in your work area to do your work and that's it. I worked all over. So I had a Q clearance. And I had a clearance for everything but the arms room. Now in the arms room, you needed a Q, but you also needed a chip. I didn't have the chip. I worked in the arms room, but I had to be escorted to the building. And then once I got to the building, I could go all around in the building, but I couldn't come out until my escort came and got me to bring me back out of the building. So there were security, and I can remember, for instance, where that DOE--which is what we call them now--actually right where Jackson's is now, down here on George Washington Way, it was a tavern. And DOE actually put people in there to watch and talk with people that worked at Hanford, got off work, stopped in to have a beer and stuff like that, just to see if they would divulge anything that was going on out there. So it was pretty hush-hush. You couldn't go past the wire barricade unless you had business out there. Again, like I say, there's not an area or a building I don't think I haven't been in. But that was because I worked all over the place. ‘Til this day, there are still areas out there that still classified. You know, they're declassifying it and cleaning it up. And I don't know how many acres they got now, but—no, I'll take that back. The only place I never did go was up on top of Rattlesnake. And I didn't want to go up there, because I'm afraid of snakes. And my brother-in-law helped put the telescope up there. And he say when they were digging and getting ready and there was plenty rattlesnakes. I said, I'm not going up there. And so I never went. [LAUGHTER] But any area out there that you can name, if you didn't have any business in there, then it wasn't a good idea to go. I can remember working, and you would look up--and they had environmentalists--and you'd look up and you'd see one way out across the desert someplace. And what in the world are they doing? Who are they? You had to go and get your supervisor or someone, or if you was in a vehicle, you went and you challenged that person. If they didn't have a badge, then they had to go with you. You held them some kind of way until they was identified, in some way or form. You just didn't walk around out there. When the Army was out there, they would do drills and stuff. And they would come in and several times—they finally had to kind of curtail that because we had guards out there that carried weapons. And some of them almost got shot, scaling over walls and going over fences and things like this. It was an exercise, but you going the wrong direction and in the wrong place without proper identification, so they had to sort of curtail that because you don't want anybody to get hurt.</p>
<p>Arata: Right. I wonder, I know it's a little bit before your time working at Hanford, but JFK visited in 1963.</p>
<p>Daniels: Well, that was before I started out there. I helped put the railroad spur in that he was supposed to come in on because he was supposed to come in by train. We finished the spur the day before he dedicated the steam plant the next day. It was so hot until I decided I wasn't going. So I didn't go. My brother took my mom and dad out to the dedication.</p>
<p>Arata: Did you ever wish maybe you had gone, braved the heat?</p>
<p>Daniels: Yeah, now I do. But back then, I didn't. I was sick of the heat.</p>
<p>Arata: Sure. I guess when you think about overall and through all your different jobs, maybe you could talk a little bit about how Hanford was as a place to work overall and if there were sort of any aspects of your jobs that were more challenging or more rewarding than others? Anything that stands out?</p>
<p>Daniels: Probably the worst part of working out at Hanford was the fact that when you worked inside the buildings, they had what we called recirculated air. You didn't get any fresh air. So it was always just sort of ho hum. You know, I always felt kind of drowsy all the time when I worked inside. Other than that, I think everything I did out there I really enjoyed. And I enjoyed being a supervisor. Although, if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't have the job. But I had everything. All of the crafts worked for me. And that's electricians, crane operators, rigors, laborers, RCTs, the whole ball of wax. I was in charge of taking down all of the holding tanks, which, if you watch TV and you see this deal on there. This guy says he worked at Hanford for 21 years and now he's under this health care and they come out and visit him. If you watch it, you'll see three great big tanks in the back while that is on. In every area out there, they had those tanks. I took down all of those tanks in all of the areas out there and cleaned them enough that all of the metal was shipped to Japan. And that's the first time any metal, that I know of, was shipped of off the Hanford site to go anyplace except for the burial ground. But in the process of doing that, we started out doing it the way they that our RCT and everything said that we were supposed to do it. We cleared I don't know how many pounds and shipped them down here to Pasco. From Pasco, they went to Seattle and was put aboard ship. Well, before they left the Hanford area, they were surveyed to be cleaned. We shipped them down to the 1100 Area. When they left the 1100 Area, they were surveyed again. They shipped them down to Pasco. When they left Pasco to go to Seattle, they were surveyed again. When they got to Seattle, before they put them aboard ship, they were surveyed again. Got to Seattle, getting ready to put them on board ship, and they found I don't know, I'll say ten milligrams on one corner of one piece of metal. They stopped it right there. Everything that they hadn't loaded aboard ship they sent back to Kennewick. All of it. I was on my way home when it was on a Friday evening. And how they knew where I was, I have no idea, but they found me. I was in the Towne Crier down here in Richland. Guy came in. He say, I've been looking for you. I said, what do you want with me? He say, you got to go to work in the morning. I say, no, I don't. He say, yes, you do. He say, I got to have RCTs. You need to go and get ahold of Ray Jennings and get some riggers and O’Reilly, get some riggers, and crane operators, and all that stuff and we got to be out there are 8 o'clock in the morning. Says, oh. So anyway, we got it all done. I drove up out there probably at 7, 7:30 or so. We all gathered around and everything. Pretty soon, here come a guy that I've never seen before. He came in. He got out of the car, he came over, he spoke to everyone. He say, who's in charge of this project? I said, well, I guess I am. He said, well, I don't need you to guess. He say, either you or your aren't. I said, well, I'm in charge of this project. He said, come over here. He says, you haven't done anything wrong according to the RWP. He say, but we found some contamination and we can't have that. He say, so today, you are going to go step-by-step through everything that you did in order to release this metal. I told him, okay. So I call my RCTs, I get my riggers and everything. We get a panel out. And we lay it out for him. And you got to lay it out in feet, every square foot, you know, is a square. And then there's a certain amount of time that you should take to go over that square foot. And he watched us. He says, you're doing everything right if that's the way you did. I say, that's the way we did it. Well, I got the RCT head supervisor there. I got the rigger supervisor and everybody saying, well, this is the way we do it. He says, okay. He says, but how do I know—and I'll give you a for instance on what I'm talking about here—when you cut a piece of metal with a torch, you get something like the rim of this glass, where the metal actually rolls as it melts. He say, how do I know it's not contaminated underneath there? I say, well, I guess I really don't, except the instruments that we use is supposed to detect anything a quarter of an inch deep. He say, that's not good enough. He say, because some of that slag is better than a quarter of an inch. He said, have you ever heard of a Ludlum? Well, now, there's none of us out there that ever heard of a Ludlum, which is a radiation detector machine. We'd never heard of it. He says, well, that's what I want you to use. He was from Washington, DC, the Pentagon. [LAUGHTER] I said, uh-oh. But anyway, he says, I'm going back this afternoon. You will not survey or ship anymore metal off of here until I am satisfied that it's clean. I told him, okay. He went back to Washington, DC. This was like on a Wednesday. On a Monday morning, I had eight Ludlums. I'd never seen the things before. So I give them to my RCTs. And they had instruction with them. And the two kids live in Kennewick now, they read the instructions and everything, tried them out and everything. And then they became the instructors to teach other people how to use the Ludlum. Battelle has a program where that they have to certify all of the machines that are used on the Hanford site. Well, they didn't get their hands on these. So I'm working. I get a call from Battelle. And they tell me, say, Vanis, I understand you've got some machines out there that didn't come through us. I said, I don't know who they came through. But I said, they sent them to me. I said, so I got them. And I'm using them. You can't use them because they're not certified. I say, that's not what I was told. So I tell them exactly what I was told, who told me, where I got them from and everything. You got to bring them in here. I said, nope. I'm not bringing them in there. I say, I was told by the head from Washington, DC what to do. And that's what I'm going to do. Anyway, I had to go down and sit on their lap and talk with them, get them to understand that, hey, you can buck whoever you want to up there. I'm not going to do it. Well, anyway, they finally got it all squared away that they weren't going to get these machines and that I was going to use them because they had been overridden by Washington, DC. So then I got to get all that metal and everything cleared and it went to Japan. And one of things I can remember he told me before he left that evening, he say, you're doing a good job. But the thing I don't want is for one of my grandkids to get contaminated sitting up working on a computer where you have sent some contaminated metal and they made computers out of and sent it back over here. That was an interesting one. [LAUGHTER]</p>
<p>Arata: I can imagine. And what year would that have been?</p>
<p>Daniels: That would've been in '95 or '96.</p>
<p>Arata: Okay. Well, I wonder if we could just wrap up. Obviously, the Cold War in this time period, kind of a very conflicted legacy. Most of my students were not alive during that time. So they have sort of a limited window into it. So I wonder of you could just tell us a little bit about, in your experience, living through and working at Hanford during much of this time period of the Cold War, just maybe what changed over the course of time, if anything in terms of—like I know the NAACP eventually came to Hanford at did some good work later on. Sort of what that experience was of living through that change.</p>
<p>Daniels: Okay, one of the things that happened was in '68, I believe it was, about that time anyway, I was working in the 325 Building and Decon at the time. And I saw this gentleman, oh, for the better part of a week walking around. In the building, he'd always nod his head, you know, speak. I'd speak, go on about my work. Whatever he was doing, he'd go on about it too. My supervisor, one morning, told me, he stays, I need you to stay here, answer the phone. He say, take any work orders that come in. He say, and if you need to go and estimate a job, you know how to do it, go do it. I got to go to a meeting. I'll be back. I says, okay. So he went on to the meeting. And when he came back, he says, I told you something was going to happen. He say, heads are going to roll around here. I said, what are you talking about? He says, remember, they got all these blacks out here. I say, yeah. He say, 90% of them are janitors. I say, yes. He say, that guy that's been walking around in this building? I say, yes? He say, he's head of DoE. He's from Washington. And he's been observing all of the jobs, the people that are doing the jobs, the people that are in the jobs, the education that the people have, and the whole ball of wax. And he just told us that we got three weeks to start transferring some of these people into some of these jobs. He say, because you can't tell me you got that many black people out here and don't none of them have enough sense to do anything but janitorial work. He say, I know better. [LAUGHTER] So that's when they started diversifying and sending people to all different jobs and all that stuff. Because before then, most of them were janitors, I think. I got a cousin that worked in a lab, one supervisor, one operator—that was about it. Everybody else mostly were janitors. But, again, see, you're looking at an area when they start hiring blacks out there. Most of them had been here since the early '40s. They had worked construction out there and all that stuff. But none of them had ever been able to get a job in what I call production. They hired them all. They hired them as janitors. They were already elderly people. And when I say elderly, some of them may have been as young as in their 40s. But most of them only worked ten, 12 years, and they retired. They were that old. Some of them didn't want to do anything else except janitorial work.</p>
<p>A whole bunch of the younger people actually went on and became Teamsters and electricians and pipefitters and all that stuff. But that was the first time that a lot of the blacks had ever had a steady job in their life. And they, in the run of a year, they probably made is much or more money than they ever made in their life because they had a steady job. You got a paycheck 52 weeks to the year, with a vacation, which they had never had before. So they didn't want to branch out per se, a lot of them didn't, because I know some of the people that I worked with, many have gotten in 12 years out there and they retired. They just weren't interested in killing the world at their age. They just weren't interested in it. We first went to hot standby they call it. In other words, hot standby is when you redo everything, you rebuild everything. You get it ready to go if you need to go back into production. Then they go from what they call hot standby they downgraded it to just cold standby. When they did that, then after about six months we went in, we start draining everything. This is all the oils, all the antifreeze if you had antifreeze, whatever you had that was liquid, we start draining all this stuff out of all the equipment and everything. You started taking out all the electrical stuff. And they had spent millions and millions and millions of dollars upgrading all this stuff. You've got engines, diesel engines just in case you had a nuclear attack or something to that effect that once the electricity went off, the engines kicked off and kept the reactors running. One of those engines is longer than this building is this way, and they rebuilt them all. And the only time they started, they just started them up enough to make sure that they were working and they shut them off. We drained everything out of all those engines, and then they took them out, and when I left they were still in the buildings. I think they've since sold them to someone, but that means that you can't start it back up. If you want to, you've got to put all new stuff in.</p>
<p>Well, in 1943, when they built the B Reactor, when they started it, 13 months it was online. Try to build a reactor today. 40 years from now it won't be online. Because the government took and they put all of these entities into place. And it's a safety precaution as far as that go. But see they didn't put any restrictions on these people. And that's just the ecology, ERDA, all those people, they don't have any restrictions on them. And you get all of these in--if I hit you on the toe, don't holler ouch too hard--but young people are the worst in the bunch because the only thing they know is what they read in a book. And the book is just a guideline for you to use this up here, because there's no two things out there that's ever going to be the same. And DoE put young people in positions out here to tell people that have been working and doing this job for 30 and 40 years and they tell them what to do instead of coming out there asking some questions and trying to learn? Because the book don't tell you nothing. Do you cook?</p>
<p>Arata: I do.</p>
<p>Daniels: Okay. You go get a recipe, you fix the food exactly like the recipe says. It's not always good to you. But now if you are allowed to put your flair into it, then it's good, right? That's the same thing with a life. That's just the way life is. You've got to learn, and you do it by trial and error. And they don't have any business out there. I had a guy, 27 years old or roughly there, shut one of my jobs down. He did not ask the questions that he should ask. He just saw it and shut it down. You're not going to do this and you're not going to do that. Well, when you're talking to a rigger that's been rigging for 40 years, he know when he's in danger and when he's not. He didn't live that long by being stupid. Well anyway, it all comes down to not putting a barrier around where he was working. Well, he's got to be able to see the rigger down here, up here, and then he signals the crane operator. Well, if you can't see the rigger down in that hole, you can't signal the crane operator. And he shut my job down because this guy didn't have a barrier between him and the hole where he could look down in there and see the rigger. They shut it down. I had to go to a critique. And we talked about it and the rigger told him, he says, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. He said, you just shut a job down, he say, and you've got all these suits sitting up in here and making all this money and the job's still not done. But those are the things you have put up with, too.</p>
<p>Arata: Absolutely. Well, sir, is there anything else that I haven't asked you about, any final stories you'd like to share?</p>
<p>Daniels: I don't know. Maybe he got something he want to ask me. You got anything you want to ask me? I am just here. Just ask me whatever you want to ask me, and if I know, I'll tell you. If I don't, I'll say I don't know.</p>
<p>Arata: I guess my one sort of follow-up question, we've heard from a couple other interviewees about having some definite run-ins with the KKK. Did you ever have any experience with the KKK in the area?</p>
<p>Daniels: No, I never did. Now I do have a friend in Kennewick that tells me that they used to have meetings right up here on Jump-Off Joe. But no, I never ran into any. If I did, I didn't know who they were. Never had that experience, because we still might be fighting if I had. [LAUGHTER]</p>
<p>Arata: I think that covers all my questions. I want to thank you so much for coming and sharing your stories and experiences with us. I really appreciate it.</p>
<p>Daniels: My brother, he's got probably--let's see, I worked out there about 15 years all total and I think he's got 36 or 37 or 38, so he can probably tell you a lot more than me.</p>
<p>Arata: We'll get him next week. We're looking forward to it. Well, thank you so much, Vanis.</p>
<p>Daniels: Okay. You're welcome.</p>
Location
The location of the interview
Washington State University - Tri-Cities
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
01:20:42
Hanford Sites
Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview
300 Area
100-F
3706 Building
3707 Building
200 East
200 West
B Reactor
1100 Area
325 Building
Years in Tri-Cities Area
Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site
1951-
Years on Hanford Site
Years on the Hanford Site, if any.
1966-1971 1989-1997
Names Mentioned
Any named mentioned (with any significance) from the local community.
Heidlebar, Rebecca
Johnson, Louzel
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
230 kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Vanis Daniels
Subject
The topic of the resource
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Richland (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
Segregation
Nuclear reactors
Radioactive decontamination
Nuclear facilities
Baseball
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
11/14/2013
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item.
Format
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video/mp4
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-08-04: Metadata v1 created – [J.G.]
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
The Hanford Oral History Project operates under a sub-contract from Mission Support Alliance (MSA), who are the primary contractors for the US Department of Energy's curatorial services relating to the Hanford site. This oral history project became a part of the Hanford History Project in 2015, and continues to add to this US Department of Energy collection.
Description
An account of the resource
Vanis Daniels moved to Pasco, Washington in 1951 as a teenager and began working on the Hanford Site in 1966.
An interview conducted as part of the Hanford Oral History Project. The Hanford Oral History Project was sponsored by Mission Support Alliance on behalf of the United States Department of Energy.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities
1100 Area
300 Area
3706 Building
3707 Building
B Reactor
BU reactor
Hanford (Wash.)
Hanford Site (Wash.)
Kennewick (Wash.)
Pasco (Wash.)
Richland (Wash.)