1 50 4772 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fe842c801f951c4be07d3533f088d3784.jpg 1ec53551cabcc55dfb777965ff5d39a2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Community Photograph Collections Subject The topic of the resource History of Hanford and the Tri-Cities area Description An account of the resource Photographs donated by the community to the Hanford History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Language A language of the resource English Abstract A summary of the resource. The Community Collections of the Hanford History Project have been graciously donated by community members for preservation and research use. Many of these are collections that were donated to the former Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science, and Technology (CREHST) and transferred to WSU Tri-Cities in 2014. Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. [Item ID], Community Collections, Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Photo Physical Dimensions The actual physical size of the original image 12.7 x 17.8 cm Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource TEDF MH-F1 Sigh Subject The topic of the resource Signs (Notices); Manhole Covers Description An account of the resource "1 photograph: col.; 12.7 x 17.8 cm. A blue sign with white text ""TEDF MH-F1""." Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project, Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1987-02-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource For permission to publish please contact Washington State University Tri-Cities' Hanford History Project (509) 372-7447. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/ tif Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Photographic prints. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG1D_4B_0001 Date Accepted Date of acceptance of the resource. Examples of resources to which a Date Accepted may be relevant are a thesis (accepted by a university department) or an article (accepted by a journal). 2017-05-16 Date Submitted Date of submission of the resource. Examples of resources to which a Date Submitted may be relevant are a thesis (submitted to a university department) or an article (submitted to a journal). 2018-10-29 Access Rights Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies. For permission to publish please contact Washington State University Tri-Cities' Hanford History Project (509) 372-7447. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Manhole covers Signs (Notices ) https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F18360b8f2e740ea82edb4e3a80548afb.jpg 0b14af90f50ed512881b55d4d954406b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Community Photograph Collections Subject The topic of the resource History of Hanford and the Tri-Cities area Description An account of the resource Photographs donated by the community to the Hanford History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Language A language of the resource English Abstract A summary of the resource. The Community Collections of the Hanford History Project have been graciously donated by community members for preservation and research use. Many of these are collections that were donated to the former Columbia River Exhibition of History, Science, and Technology (CREHST) and transferred to WSU Tri-Cities in 2014. Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. [Item ID], Community Collections, Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Photo Physical Dimensions The actual physical size of the original image 20.6 x 25.3 cm Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Large Building Under Construction Subject The topic of the resource Houses; Automobiles; Construction; Aerial views Description An account of the resource "1 photograph; 20.6 x 25.3 cm. Large building undergoing construction, lots of cars nearby as well as houses in the background. Text on back of image reads: ""Hanford Works; Photo No. 9; Area Carmicheal; Date 9-22-48""." Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project, Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1948-09-22 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource For permission to publish please contact Washington State University Tri-Cities' Hanford History Project (509) 372-7447. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource none Language A language of the resource image/ tif Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG1D_4B_0570 Date Accepted Date of acceptance of the resource. Examples of resources to which a Date Accepted may be relevant are a thesis (accepted by a university department) or an article (accepted by a journal). 2017-06-01 Date Submitted Date of submission of the resource. Examples of resources to which a Date Submitted may be relevant are a thesis (submitted to a university department) or an article (submitted to a journal). 2018-12-03 Access Rights Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies. For permission to publish please contact Washington State University Tri-Cities' Hanford History Project (509) 372-7447. Aerial views Automobiles Construction Houses https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fb9c7c1b95af7197cdbf7e1c47b851f4d.jpg f602d299e9b3cc78c7f07d055e3292cf Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Harry and Juanita Anderson Collection Subject The topic of the resource History of the Hanford, WA and White Bluffs, WA town sites and the Hanford Site. Description An account of the resource Photographs donated to the Hanford History Project by the family of Harry and Juanita Anderson. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Abstract A summary of the resource. The Harry and Juanita Anderson Collection has been graciously donated by their family members. This collection contains documents and photographs pertaining to the residents of White Bluffs, Hanford, and the surrounding areas that were forced by the government to sell their land and leave the area, in order to make way for the Manhattan Project. Also, housed in the collection is information regarding the reunions and picnics that were held for the families affected by the relocation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Two unknown men standing in snow Description An account of the resource Man wearing W on Sweater with WB belt buckle, along with another man next to him (Possibly George Gilhuly). Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG4I_092 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fee47324a64b17f9483b33d6d6507a86e.jpg dbd39357bc671947ef303434074f462b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Harry and Juanita Anderson Collection Subject The topic of the resource History of the Hanford, WA and White Bluffs, WA town sites and the Hanford Site. Description An account of the resource Photographs donated to the Hanford History Project by the family of Harry and Juanita Anderson. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Abstract A summary of the resource. The Harry and Juanita Anderson Collection has been graciously donated by their family members. This collection contains documents and photographs pertaining to the residents of White Bluffs, Hanford, and the surrounding areas that were forced by the government to sell their land and leave the area, in order to make way for the Manhattan Project. Also, housed in the collection is information regarding the reunions and picnics that were held for the families affected by the relocation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Two people looking at a foundation Description An account of the resource Two people in front of what once was a home/building, during a reunion visit in 1968. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1968 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG4I_1111 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fc40b7cd52a575f12136f38f9048fa0d0.JPG 8c02ef557a6bded83eda3aef11bfed56 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James L. Acord, sculptor Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Leroy Acord (1944–2011) was an artist recognized for his work with radioactive materials. His artistic practice involved creating sculptures and events that engaged with the history of nuclear engineering and addressed questions surrounding the long-term storage of nuclear waste. The James L. Acord archival collection chronicles the life, career, and legacy of Acord, who was the only private individual to be licensed for the artistic use of radioactive materials. Acord’s work is characterized by his efforts to combine nuclear science with contemporary sculpture. His nuclear license number was tattooed on his neck. For 15 years, Acord resided in Richland, Washington, a community established for the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. While there, he developed a proposal to construct a "Nuclear Stonehenge" on a contaminated section of the Hanford site, which would have incorporated twelve uranium breeder-blanket assemblies. He also created the sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," which is located at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Acord lectured at art and nuclear industry events in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He also organized forums that convened artists, activists, and nuclear industry experts. From 1998 to 1999, he held an Artist in Residence position at Imperial College London. He died in Seattle on January 9, 2011, at the age of 66. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Sculpture Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bronze Fossil Man Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource A photograph of James L. Acord's "Bronze Fossil Man" sculpture. The artwork depicts a human-like form, appearing skeletal or fossilized, rendered in bronze. The sculpture's design incorporates elements suggestive of ancient remains. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Acord, James Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .jpg, bronze Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Art bronze drawing Hanford Jim Acord Manhattan Project nuclear nuclear art Richland sculpture sketch https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F0ebf9c41945da532f5f965e31059525c.jpg 503c8ae074432e9d03563ddc5d2593ce Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James L. Acord, sculptor Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Leroy Acord (1944–2011) was an artist recognized for his work with radioactive materials. His artistic practice involved creating sculptures and events that engaged with the history of nuclear engineering and addressed questions surrounding the long-term storage of nuclear waste. The James L. Acord archival collection chronicles the life, career, and legacy of Acord, who was the only private individual to be licensed for the artistic use of radioactive materials. Acord’s work is characterized by his efforts to combine nuclear science with contemporary sculpture. His nuclear license number was tattooed on his neck. For 15 years, Acord resided in Richland, Washington, a community established for the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. While there, he developed a proposal to construct a "Nuclear Stonehenge" on a contaminated section of the Hanford site, which would have incorporated twelve uranium breeder-blanket assemblies. He also created the sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," which is located at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Acord lectured at art and nuclear industry events in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He also organized forums that convened artists, activists, and nuclear industry experts. From 1998 to 1999, he held an Artist in Residence position at Imperial College London. He died in Seattle on January 9, 2011, at the age of 66. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Granite sculpture, newspaper, sketch, blueprint Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Monstrance for a Grey Horse Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource A close-up photograph of James L. Acord's sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse." The sculpture features the carved skull of a horse, crafted from granite, resting atop a large rectangular pedestal. The work combines natural forms with monumental presentation, reflecting Acord's engagement with themes of nuclear materials and their cultural implications. Currently installed on the campus of Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas, United States. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Acord, James Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. stone Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .jpg Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Art atomic art blueprint drawing granite Hanford Jim Acord Manhattan Project newspaper clippings nuclear nuclear art Richland sculpture sketch Stone https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F75077950ffdba09be55bbcbd71b7cdc4.pdf c4168e8025ba0dce1bf65fec154027cd Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James L. Acord, sculptor Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Leroy Acord (1944–2011) was an artist recognized for his work with radioactive materials. His artistic practice involved creating sculptures and events that engaged with the history of nuclear engineering and addressed questions surrounding the long-term storage of nuclear waste. The James L. Acord archival collection chronicles the life, career, and legacy of Acord, who was the only private individual to be licensed for the artistic use of radioactive materials. Acord’s work is characterized by his efforts to combine nuclear science with contemporary sculpture. His nuclear license number was tattooed on his neck. For 15 years, Acord resided in Richland, Washington, a community established for the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. While there, he developed a proposal to construct a "Nuclear Stonehenge" on a contaminated section of the Hanford site, which would have incorporated twelve uranium breeder-blanket assemblies. He also created the sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," which is located at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Acord lectured at art and nuclear industry events in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He also organized forums that convened artists, activists, and nuclear industry experts. From 1998 to 1999, he held an Artist in Residence position at Imperial College London. He died in Seattle on January 9, 2011, at the age of 66. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data paper Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource CHRONICALS - Nuclear Material into Art Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource Also known as - "THE Book" - A compilation of documents related to sculptor James L. Acord's nuclear materials into art projects. It details his extensive efforts to acquire depleted uranium breeder-blanket assemblies from Siemens AG and secure the necessary radioactive materials licenses from U.S. and Washington State authorities. The compilation includes correspondence regarding shipping requirements and licensing, as well as technical descriptions of the nuclear materials. Furthermore, it outlines general guidelines for radiation emergencies and features a sketch of his proposed sculpture intended to house these materials. This collection illuminates the complex interplay between art, nuclear technology, and regulatory processes in Acord's work. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part, or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Acord, James Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource January 1993 Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F8cf2b9e1badda74d1d1cda46f29b26eb.pdf 0844443469c9fc211aaed5a01101944a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James L. Acord, sculptor Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Leroy Acord (1944–2011) was an artist recognized for his work with radioactive materials. His artistic practice involved creating sculptures and events that engaged with the history of nuclear engineering and addressed questions surrounding the long-term storage of nuclear waste. The James L. Acord archival collection chronicles the life, career, and legacy of Acord, who was the only private individual to be licensed for the artistic use of radioactive materials. Acord’s work is characterized by his efforts to combine nuclear science with contemporary sculpture. His nuclear license number was tattooed on his neck. For 15 years, Acord resided in Richland, Washington, a community established for the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. While there, he developed a proposal to construct a "Nuclear Stonehenge" on a contaminated section of the Hanford site, which would have incorporated twelve uranium breeder-blanket assemblies. He also created the sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," which is located at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Acord lectured at art and nuclear industry events in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He also organized forums that convened artists, activists, and nuclear industry experts. From 1998 to 1999, he held an Artist in Residence position at Imperial College London. He died in Seattle on January 9, 2011, at the age of 66. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data paper Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource CIVILIZATION, a 911 show in 4 parts Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource This project was designed as an evolving installation and event that explores the creation of art, its societal influence, and the reciprocal effects on the artist and the artwork itself. Key to the installation were two sculptures then in progress: "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," described as a multi-ton granite carving intended to contain nuclear waste, and "Home Reactor," a piece fashioned from ceramic, glass, and water. These sculptures were to augment the new avenues for artistic development they fostered. A significant emphasis was placed on collaboration with a variety of artists, disciplines, and technologies. The proposed Belltown Coliseum site was to be delineated into a "nuclear-free zone" for the audience and a "restricted zone" for exhibits and performances. This restricted area, set back from the viewing space, would house the core installation and performance elements. The two primary sculptures were intended to flank the stage, complemented by "flat-art" on the east and west walls. The south wall, positioned behind the performance stage, was designated for a multi-projector slide show, video monitors, computer-generated images, sound equipment for prepared tapes and live performance, as well as additional radiation monitoring equipment. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Acord, James Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource January 1989 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part, or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .pdf Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Art atomic art drawing Hanford James Acord Jim Acord Manhattan Project nuclear nuclear art nuclear materials performance art Richland sculpture sketch https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F671916021cf472a445e3f3ca503f8055.jpg 977a25237100cbd31ce6ac8cf9c74837 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James L. Acord, sculptor Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Leroy Acord (1944–2011) was an artist recognized for his work with radioactive materials. His artistic practice involved creating sculptures and events that engaged with the history of nuclear engineering and addressed questions surrounding the long-term storage of nuclear waste. The James L. Acord archival collection chronicles the life, career, and legacy of Acord, who was the only private individual to be licensed for the artistic use of radioactive materials. Acord’s work is characterized by his efforts to combine nuclear science with contemporary sculpture. His nuclear license number was tattooed on his neck. For 15 years, Acord resided in Richland, Washington, a community established for the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. While there, he developed a proposal to construct a "Nuclear Stonehenge" on a contaminated section of the Hanford site, which would have incorporated twelve uranium breeder-blanket assemblies. He also created the sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," which is located at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Acord lectured at art and nuclear industry events in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He also organized forums that convened artists, activists, and nuclear industry experts. From 1998 to 1999, he held an Artist in Residence position at Imperial College London. He died in Seattle on January 9, 2011, at the age of 66. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data photograph Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Monstrance for a Grey Horse Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource A close-up photograph of James L. Acord's sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse." The sculpture features the carved skull of a horse, crafted from granite, resting atop a large rectangular pedestal. The work combines natural forms with monumental presentation, reflecting Acord's engagement with themes of nuclear materials and their cultural implications. Currently installed on the campus of Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas, United States. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Acord, James Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part, or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .jpg Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F119a1ca7172650c0c536d6a5e9fedf16.jpg a28789f0d0beae0e6da41ae1fd07c246 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James L. Acord, sculptor Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Leroy Acord (1944–2011) was an artist recognized for his work with radioactive materials. His artistic practice involved creating sculptures and events that engaged with the history of nuclear engineering and addressed questions surrounding the long-term storage of nuclear waste. The James L. Acord archival collection chronicles the life, career, and legacy of Acord, who was the only private individual to be licensed for the artistic use of radioactive materials. Acord’s work is characterized by his efforts to combine nuclear science with contemporary sculpture. His nuclear license number was tattooed on his neck. For 15 years, Acord resided in Richland, Washington, a community established for the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. While there, he developed a proposal to construct a "Nuclear Stonehenge" on a contaminated section of the Hanford site, which would have incorporated twelve uranium breeder-blanket assemblies. He also created the sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," which is located at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Acord lectured at art and nuclear industry events in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He also organized forums that convened artists, activists, and nuclear industry experts. From 1998 to 1999, he held an Artist in Residence position at Imperial College London. He died in Seattle on January 9, 2011, at the age of 66. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Monstrance for a Grey Horse, technical drawing Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource A technical drawing depicting a conceptual design of Monstrance for a Grey Horse. The drawings indicate the overall structure and design, and white measurement lines with numerical annotations (e.g., "8'-0"", "5'-0"") are present on both sides, indicating the planned dimensions of the sculpture. With uranium core represented with a red overlay. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Acord, James Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part, or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .jpg Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Art atomic art drawing Hanford James Acord Manhattan Project nuclear nuclear art Richland sculpture sketch https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Ff7771dd54cc342eb8af674c23f6ab7f3.jpg 2cfa826f773e6b2ada7198e7dd6f84f6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James L. Acord, sculptor Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Leroy Acord (1944–2011) was an artist recognized for his work with radioactive materials. His artistic practice involved creating sculptures and events that engaged with the history of nuclear engineering and addressed questions surrounding the long-term storage of nuclear waste. The James L. Acord archival collection chronicles the life, career, and legacy of Acord, who was the only private individual to be licensed for the artistic use of radioactive materials. Acord’s work is characterized by his efforts to combine nuclear science with contemporary sculpture. His nuclear license number was tattooed on his neck. For 15 years, Acord resided in Richland, Washington, a community established for the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. While there, he developed a proposal to construct a "Nuclear Stonehenge" on a contaminated section of the Hanford site, which would have incorporated twelve uranium breeder-blanket assemblies. He also created the sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," which is located at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Acord lectured at art and nuclear industry events in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He also organized forums that convened artists, activists, and nuclear industry experts. From 1998 to 1999, he held an Artist in Residence position at Imperial College London. He died in Seattle on January 9, 2011, at the age of 66. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Monstrance for a Grey Horse, technical drawing Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Acord, James Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part, or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .jpg Description An account of the resource A technical drawing depicting a conceptual design of Monstrance for a Grey Horse. The drawings indicate the overall structure and design, and white measurement lines with numerical annotations (e.g., "8'-0"", "5'-0"") are present on both sides, indicating the planned dimensions of the sculpture. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Art atomic art drawing Hanford James Acord Manhattan Project nuclear nuclear art Richland sculpture sketch https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F6354cda532a6cd94fdf92da781dca193.jpg 3a951639c1c4282dc25e722db77be4bd Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource fileDerivatives.strategyOptions.gravity = "north" Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James L. Acord, sculptor Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Leroy Acord (1944–2011) was an artist recognized for his work with radioactive materials. His artistic practice involved creating sculptures and events that engaged with the history of nuclear engineering and addressed questions surrounding the long-term storage of nuclear waste. The James L. Acord archival collection chronicles the life, career, and legacy of Acord, who was the only private individual to be licensed for the artistic use of radioactive materials. Acord’s work is characterized by his efforts to combine nuclear science with contemporary sculpture. His nuclear license number was tattooed on his neck. For 15 years, Acord resided in Richland, Washington, a community established for the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. While there, he developed a proposal to construct a "Nuclear Stonehenge" on a contaminated section of the Hanford site, which would have incorporated twelve uranium breeder-blanket assemblies. He also created the sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," which is located at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Acord lectured at art and nuclear industry events in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He also organized forums that convened artists, activists, and nuclear industry experts. From 1998 to 1999, he held an Artist in Residence position at Imperial College London. He died in Seattle on January 9, 2011, at the age of 66. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Monstrance for a Grey Horse, sketch Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource A sketch of Monstrance for a Grey Horse featuring and exploded view of the various components of the pedestal. With the uranium core insert indicated. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Acord, James Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .jpg Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Art atomic art drawing Hanford James Acord Manhattan Project nuclear nuclear art Richland sculpture sketch https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fba7d6907c74253a1c21ecfd904ce58b3.jpg d62b97df857fd098f331e3a04d16eb91 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James L. Acord, sculptor Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Leroy Acord (1944–2011) was an artist recognized for his work with radioactive materials. His artistic practice involved creating sculptures and events that engaged with the history of nuclear engineering and addressed questions surrounding the long-term storage of nuclear waste. The James L. Acord archival collection chronicles the life, career, and legacy of Acord, who was the only private individual to be licensed for the artistic use of radioactive materials. Acord’s work is characterized by his efforts to combine nuclear science with contemporary sculpture. His nuclear license number was tattooed on his neck. For 15 years, Acord resided in Richland, Washington, a community established for the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. While there, he developed a proposal to construct a "Nuclear Stonehenge" on a contaminated section of the Hanford site, which would have incorporated twelve uranium breeder-blanket assemblies. He also created the sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," which is located at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Acord lectured at art and nuclear industry events in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He also organized forums that convened artists, activists, and nuclear industry experts. From 1998 to 1999, he held an Artist in Residence position at Imperial College London. He died in Seattle on January 9, 2011, at the age of 66. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Uranium Core insert for Monstrance for a Grey Horse Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource Sketch from 1987 depicting a design for the MKII cannister for use as the uranium core insert in Monstrance for a Grey Horse. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Acord, James Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part, or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .jpg Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Art atomic art drawing Hanford James Acord Manhattan Project nuclear nuclear art Richland sculpture sketch https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F3042c81994ecfdd89093e1fea317c852.jpg 7a23d6173b3c540814051047812d24f5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James L. Acord, sculptor Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Leroy Acord (1944–2011) was an artist recognized for his work with radioactive materials. His artistic practice involved creating sculptures and events that engaged with the history of nuclear engineering and addressed questions surrounding the long-term storage of nuclear waste. The James L. Acord archival collection chronicles the life, career, and legacy of Acord, who was the only private individual to be licensed for the artistic use of radioactive materials. Acord’s work is characterized by his efforts to combine nuclear science with contemporary sculpture. His nuclear license number was tattooed on his neck. For 15 years, Acord resided in Richland, Washington, a community established for the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. While there, he developed a proposal to construct a "Nuclear Stonehenge" on a contaminated section of the Hanford site, which would have incorporated twelve uranium breeder-blanket assemblies. He also created the sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," which is located at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Acord lectured at art and nuclear industry events in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He also organized forums that convened artists, activists, and nuclear industry experts. From 1998 to 1999, he held an Artist in Residence position at Imperial College London. He died in Seattle on January 9, 2011, at the age of 66. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Monstrance for a Grey Horse - Stored Outside Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource This photograph depicts the sculpture "Monstrance for a Grey Horse" situated outdoors beside Acord’s studio. The sculpture is staged among a collection of tumbleweeds and other sculptural or industrial materials. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Acord, James Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part, or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .jpg Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Art atomic art drawing Hanford James Acord Manhattan Project nuclear nuclear art Richland sculpture sketch https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F822382a58a5035b580525e2a80f4a7a9.jpg 7bbc6392f9a24c8ea1340a84687c0766 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James L. Acord, sculptor Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Leroy Acord (1944–2011) was an artist recognized for his work with radioactive materials. His artistic practice involved creating sculptures and events that engaged with the history of nuclear engineering and addressed questions surrounding the long-term storage of nuclear waste. The James L. Acord archival collection chronicles the life, career, and legacy of Acord, who was the only private individual to be licensed for the artistic use of radioactive materials. Acord’s work is characterized by his efforts to combine nuclear science with contemporary sculpture. His nuclear license number was tattooed on his neck. For 15 years, Acord resided in Richland, Washington, a community established for the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. While there, he developed a proposal to construct a "Nuclear Stonehenge" on a contaminated section of the Hanford site, which would have incorporated twelve uranium breeder-blanket assemblies. He also created the sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," which is located at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Acord lectured at art and nuclear industry events in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He also organized forums that convened artists, activists, and nuclear industry experts. From 1998 to 1999, he held an Artist in Residence position at Imperial College London. He died in Seattle on January 9, 2011, at the age of 66. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Monstrance for a Grey Horse, sketch Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource Conceptual drawing of "Monstrance for a Grey Horse" featuring the MK II cannister design for housing radio active materials. The detailed illustration indicates artistic planning stages Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Acord, James Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part, or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .jpg Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Art atomic art drawing Hanford James Acord Manhattan Project nuclear nuclear art Richland sculpture sketch https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fd45292cc3f856004c0fb0d31a116e7db.jpg c686641d3580a288ce6da6b8faf6ea8a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James L. Acord, sculptor Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Leroy Acord (1944–2011) was an artist recognized for his work with radioactive materials. His artistic practice involved creating sculptures and events that engaged with the history of nuclear engineering and addressed questions surrounding the long-term storage of nuclear waste. The James L. Acord archival collection chronicles the life, career, and legacy of Acord, who was the only private individual to be licensed for the artistic use of radioactive materials. Acord’s work is characterized by his efforts to combine nuclear science with contemporary sculpture. His nuclear license number was tattooed on his neck. For 15 years, Acord resided in Richland, Washington, a community established for the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. While there, he developed a proposal to construct a "Nuclear Stonehenge" on a contaminated section of the Hanford site, which would have incorporated twelve uranium breeder-blanket assemblies. He also created the sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," which is located at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Acord lectured at art and nuclear industry events in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He also organized forums that convened artists, activists, and nuclear industry experts. From 1998 to 1999, he held an Artist in Residence position at Imperial College London. He died in Seattle on January 9, 2011, at the age of 66. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Monstrance for a Grey Horse, sketch (technical) Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource Technical drawing depicting the conceptual design of "Monstrance for a Grey Horse”. The illustration presents a front elevation view of the proposed sculpture with detailed measurements with the iconic stylized horse skull atop a multi-layered pedestal. Hand annotations specify the sculpture's dimensions. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Acord, James Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part, or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .jpg Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). atomic art drawing Hanford James Acord Manhattan Project nuclear art Richland sculpture sketch https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F416fbe63752b580ad01bf07b7b67b6ca.jpg f21a77825a91a6b38961e2abaeaa9983 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James L. Acord, sculptor Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Leroy Acord (1944–2011) was an artist recognized for his work with radioactive materials. His artistic practice involved creating sculptures and events that engaged with the history of nuclear engineering and addressed questions surrounding the long-term storage of nuclear waste. The James L. Acord archival collection chronicles the life, career, and legacy of Acord, who was the only private individual to be licensed for the artistic use of radioactive materials. Acord’s work is characterized by his efforts to combine nuclear science with contemporary sculpture. His nuclear license number was tattooed on his neck. For 15 years, Acord resided in Richland, Washington, a community established for the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. While there, he developed a proposal to construct a "Nuclear Stonehenge" on a contaminated section of the Hanford site, which would have incorporated twelve uranium breeder-blanket assemblies. He also created the sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," which is located at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Acord lectured at art and nuclear industry events in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He also organized forums that convened artists, activists, and nuclear industry experts. From 1998 to 1999, he held an Artist in Residence position at Imperial College London. He died in Seattle on January 9, 2011, at the age of 66. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Monstrance for a Grey Horse, close-up Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource A detailed close-up photograph of James Acord's sculpture Monstrance for a Grey Horse. The image highlights the texture and natural patterns of the granite material, emphasizing the form and craftsmanship of the sculpture. The photograph underscores the artistic and conceptual qualities of the piece illustrating aspects of contemporary sculpture and stone art. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Acord, James Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part, or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .jpg Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). atomic art Hanford James Acord Manhattan Project nuclear art nuclear materials Richland https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F5d3875df528fa4ea5f3ce3fbba8cc05f.jpg fa0e4217cdcf2101cc83034d752d658d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James L. Acord, sculptor Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Leroy Acord (1944–2011) was an artist recognized for his work with radioactive materials. His artistic practice involved creating sculptures and events that engaged with the history of nuclear engineering and addressed questions surrounding the long-term storage of nuclear waste. The James L. Acord archival collection chronicles the life, career, and legacy of Acord, who was the only private individual to be licensed for the artistic use of radioactive materials. Acord’s work is characterized by his efforts to combine nuclear science with contemporary sculpture. His nuclear license number was tattooed on his neck. For 15 years, Acord resided in Richland, Washington, a community established for the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. While there, he developed a proposal to construct a "Nuclear Stonehenge" on a contaminated section of the Hanford site, which would have incorporated twelve uranium breeder-blanket assemblies. He also created the sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," which is located at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Acord lectured at art and nuclear industry events in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He also organized forums that convened artists, activists, and nuclear industry experts. From 1998 to 1999, he held an Artist in Residence position at Imperial College London. He died in Seattle on January 9, 2011, at the age of 66. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource The artist at work on Monstrance for a Grey Horse Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph showing sculptor James Acord working on Monstrance for a Grey Horse in his workshop. The artist is bent over a large block of granite, using carving tools to shape what would become the horse skull sculpture. The granite block appears to be in an intermediate stage of carving, with the rough form of the horse skull beginning to emerge from the raw stone. The photograph captures the intensive, physical nature of stone carving, documenting the artist's process during the ten-year creation of this significant sculptural work that would later be installed at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Acord, James Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part, or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .jpg Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). atomic art Hanford James Acord Manhattan Project nuclear art nuclear materials Richland https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F0305cd1adf4742d55d3474e94ba8911e.jpg 2d896a81c7a87efe3005c6f4c7344591 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James L. Acord, sculptor Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Leroy Acord (1944–2011) was an artist recognized for his work with radioactive materials. His artistic practice involved creating sculptures and events that engaged with the history of nuclear engineering and addressed questions surrounding the long-term storage of nuclear waste. The James L. Acord archival collection chronicles the life, career, and legacy of Acord, who was the only private individual to be licensed for the artistic use of radioactive materials. Acord’s work is characterized by his efforts to combine nuclear science with contemporary sculpture. His nuclear license number was tattooed on his neck. For 15 years, Acord resided in Richland, Washington, a community established for the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. While there, he developed a proposal to construct a "Nuclear Stonehenge" on a contaminated section of the Hanford site, which would have incorporated twelve uranium breeder-blanket assemblies. He also created the sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," which is located at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Acord lectured at art and nuclear industry events in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He also organized forums that convened artists, activists, and nuclear industry experts. From 1998 to 1999, he held an Artist in Residence position at Imperial College London. He died in Seattle on January 9, 2011, at the age of 66. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hood for Monstrance for a Grey Horse Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource Color photograph showing the right side of the hood fabricated as a conceptual component for his sculpture Monstrance for a Grey Horse. The hood features stylized forms echoing the horse skull design of the main sculpture. This element is not currently displayed with the sculpture at its Texas location, as the hood was never completed. The photograph was likely taken within Acord’s workshop, emphasizing the creative process and technical construction behind the work. The hood exemplifies Acord’s integration of form and nuclear art concepts. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Acord, James Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part, or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .jpg Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). atomic art Hanford James Acord Manhattan Project nuclear art nuclear materials Richland https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F626a1e737491c3530315d7c59f0f07a7.jpg b4daf5ba699fa14f849f24f6a09a83db Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James L. Acord, sculptor Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Leroy Acord (1944–2011) was an artist recognized for his work with radioactive materials. His artistic practice involved creating sculptures and events that engaged with the history of nuclear engineering and addressed questions surrounding the long-term storage of nuclear waste. The James L. Acord archival collection chronicles the life, career, and legacy of Acord, who was the only private individual to be licensed for the artistic use of radioactive materials. Acord’s work is characterized by his efforts to combine nuclear science with contemporary sculpture. His nuclear license number was tattooed on his neck. For 15 years, Acord resided in Richland, Washington, a community established for the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. While there, he developed a proposal to construct a "Nuclear Stonehenge" on a contaminated section of the Hanford site, which would have incorporated twelve uranium breeder-blanket assemblies. He also created the sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," which is located at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Acord lectured at art and nuclear industry events in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He also organized forums that convened artists, activists, and nuclear industry experts. From 1998 to 1999, he held an Artist in Residence position at Imperial College London. He died in Seattle on January 9, 2011, at the age of 66. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data photo Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James Acord with Monstrance for a Grey Horse Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Acord stands with his back to the camera, revealing the neck tattoo of his nuclear materials handler's number, in front of "Monstrance for a Grey Horse." Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Acord, James Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .jpg Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F2f7336d8f6f9e8c433aa21a8b28a9dad.pdf c6ca765d48d7695fe89e1ab0b260f7bd Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Printed Booklet Physical Dimensions The actual physical size of the original image 15 x 23 cm Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource The Hanford Story Description An account of the resource 15 x 23 cm: AEC booklet recounting the history of Hanford from the Manhattan Project to the N-Reactor Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource AEC-ITT/FSS Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available AEC-ITT/FSS Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Printed Booklet Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context The_Hanford_Story001 Date Available Date (often a range) that the resource became or will become available. 2022 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Faf8bf2f6d81c67e9ef7b69c434942a5d.JPG 892474e4e04b14d934a370dec4b58640 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F946842f661eb058d45b55d8d452c8e62.mpg 0d55695013e65fd959b507d2a6d5dd91 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Documenting African American Migration, Segregation, and Civil Rights History at Manhattan Project National Historical Park (MAPR), Hanford Subject The topic of the resource African Americans; Oral History Description An account of the resource A National Park Service funded project to document the history of African American contributions to Hanford and the surrounding communities. This project was conducted through the Pacific Northwest Cooperative Ecosystems Unit, Task Agreement P17AC01288 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National Park Service Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 9/1/2017-9/1/2019 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource For permission to publish or for more information contact the Hanford History Project. Relation A related resource RG2D_4D AACCES Oral History Project Language A language of the resource English Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG2_8 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Vanessa Moore Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Edward Ash, Sr. Location The location of the interview Home of Edward Ash, Sr. (Pasco, WA) Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound [camera operator]: Sound check. Vanessa Moore: Sound check? For me? [camera operator]: Yeah, for both of you. Moore: Okay. State your name and address one more time for me, Mr. Ash. Edward Ash, Senior: Edward L. Ash. 923 West Leola, Pasco, Washington. [camera operator]: Okay. Moore: Okay. [VIDEO CUTS] Ash: --L. Ash-- [off-screen]: Look this way. Ash: Huh? [camera operator]: It doesn’t matter. Moore: We’re just checking the sound. Go ahead. Ash: Oh, you want me to look at you, huh? Moore: Yeah. Ash: Oh, okay. Moore: --story that goes with whatever I’m asking about to tell that, or kind of elaborate on the answer, rather than just if I say, what year were you born, or—well, that’s not a good one. But if we were to say something where you could just say “yes” or “no,” it helps us to hear a little bit more, okay? And I’m gonna try to talk not too much so that we can allow you to do that and he won’t pick me up on here— Ash: Oh, that’s okay. Moore: --so much. So if I hesitate and I go like this, I probably mean, keep telling me about that, okay? [LAUGHTER] [off-screen]: You might want to tell him to stop. [LAUGHTER] Moore: That’s all right, that’s all right. [off-screen]: If you get him started, sometimes, boy. Moore: If I get him started, he’ll keep going? Oh, that’s good! That’s what we’re after. So you ready to go? This is another interview that’s being conducted for a project for the Triple-A-S History and Recognition Committee’s Hanford Project. My name is Vanessa Moore and today we’re speaking with Mr. Edward Ash, who worked here in the Hanford area, back in the 1940s and later. So, Mr. Ash, I appreciate you taking time to talk with us today, and just wanna ask you a few questions. First of all, I would like to know when exactly did you arrive in the Tri-Cities and tell me a little bit about that. Ash: When I was over in Tri-City. Let’s see. We went over to Tacoma. Let’s see what year—’46—wasn’t it in ’46 we came from Tacoma? [off-screen]: I think it’s ’47. Moore: ’47? Ash: Yeah, ’47 was when we came from Tacoma. Moore: You came from Tacoma? Ash: I came from Tacoma over to Pasco. Moore: Mm-hmm. You said “we,” now who came with you? Ash: Well, Forrest Lee White, he came over with me. We was a little north of Tacoma. I came over here because I was working over in Tacoma and I forgot about that job. He had been here once before, he had, during DuPont time. I wasn’t over here during the DuPont time, so he said, let’s go back over there. So we went over and he said—when we got over here, well, you understand that J.A. Jones was moving in to start back the Hanford Area. So we went down to the union hall that day and we sit up at the union hall all day long. They were calling people to go to work on the Hanford Area. So Forrest Lee said I’m going over to the pool hall and shoot some pool, he said, because, oh we may not get out now because we got to wait. I stayed at the union hall and they kept calling up and the business agent was saying, we’re calling just the union members now, and everybody that’s going over are union members, union. I said to myself, I said, why is all them folk union members? So I sit down there until 12:00, and the guys sort of scattered. So I walked up there and I said, I’m from Tacoma. I used to be in the union myself, I said, but since I worked in civil service, then I went back to the union told me I had to, if I come in and pay all my initiation fees up, that I could go back in. So I said I’d come over to Pasco and rejoin the union and get back in the union. If I wanted to go back to Tacoma, I’d go back to Tacoma. Moore: What union was that? Which union? Ash: Laborers’ International. Moore: Laborers’? Ash: So I said, well, one thing I might like to ask you. He said, what? I said if I pay all my initiation fees and everything, could I get in? He said, can you pay all the initiation fees at one time today? I said, yeah. He said, okay. So he wrote down a receipt for the job. So then I didn’t have no way of going to the job, because Forrest had the car. So I went over to the pool hall and I told Forrest, boy, I got hired out. He said, yeah? I said, come on and go with me. Moore: Tell me your friend’s name again? Ash: Hmm? Moore: Your friend’s name? Ash: Forrest Lee White. We went on back over to the hall, and I asked him what about—this guy got the car. Could we get him out, too? He said, yeah. And so we got him out. So then we went on out to Richland the next day. J.A. Jones just moved in and they didn’t have no tools over there to go to work. So we got there and they told us, well, we just gonna sit around until the tools come in, but nobody have to leave the personnel office. You have to come in here at 8:00 and you stay here and sit out there and go to sleep or whatever you wanna do until 4:30 in the evening. Moore: That’s easy work. Ash: He said, y’all will get paid for sitting up here, he said, until we get the tools and start up working. So we went there everyday for two weeks and we draw a paycheck before we ever did a lick of work. Moore: [LAUGHTER] What kind of work would you eventually be doing? Ash: Well, I worked in the Laborers’ all the time. The Laborers’ District. Moore: Uh-huh, with J.A. Jones. Ash: Let me see, J.A. Jones had the Hanford Area until—you see, they had taken the whole Hanford Area. Moore: This was for construction work? Ash: Yeah, construction work. Construction, and then after construction work, why, then they’d take you over to the reactor and everything over there, too. Moore: What buildings did you work on? Ash: Well, I can just about call every building they have. I worked on first over in 300 Area, I worked on there. Then I worked at 34-5. I worked at 100-H, B, C, D, DR, K East, K West, all of the N, and I worked at K East and I worked at all the other Hanford buildings. But I done worked over the whole place from every building from 300 and all the 105s and everything. That was on the river, on the riverside. Moore: Could you describe for me the type of work that you did? Ash: Well, the type of work that I did, I first went there, I started working in the construction part. I helped to build, I built all the 105 area. We got them built and then we helped them putting in the machines and everything in. Moore: Mm-hmm, so was it like concrete work? Ash: It was concrete work and I worked some of everything. You know when you’s a laborer, you do some of everything. I worked with the cement finishers, I worked with the electricians, I worked with the pipefitters, I worked—I just worked with every craft that was there. Then when they got the building all finished and then they went in, then you—I got my Q clearance. I think me, myself and another white guy was about the first ones that got a Q clearance. The reason I got my Q clearance as quick as I did because I worked for the US Navy supply base in Tacoma during the war. So I got my Q clearance about the same week when I put in for it. Moore: So it didn’t take a long investigation for your clearance? Ash: No, it didn’t take no investigation at all, it didn’t. Because when I put in for it, why, I’d just left Tacoma from the US Navy supply base. I worked there all during the war, see, I did. Moore: What kind of work did you do there at the Navy? Ash: Well, I worked there shipping and receiving and all. Then I was working in the warehouse, and we were shipping stuff overseas where the people were fighting at, and armor. Then they come to the place where we had to—everything that was going overseas had to be waterproofed. Like jeeps, all that different stuff going had to be waterproofed. So the ship would sink, all that stuff would float and they can pick it up later. So after they classified me in army for number one, I suppose, I went in the service. Then one of the head lieutenant come out there one day and asked me, how would you like to be deferred? I didn’t know what deferred was. I asked him, I said, what’s that gonna be? He said, well, your supervisor said you’ve been doing a good job of waterproofing all of this stuff that’s going overseas. He said, they done give you your papers. I got a bunch of women and men both, you’re the overseer of it. So they want to keep you here because you’s qualified for this. So I said, okay. So then he went and fixed up the papers. I didn’t have to go the army, so he said, now, you, in a few years, you probably have to go when this run out. But it didn’t run out until V-J Day when the whistle blow. The whistle blow like the day that my papers run out, tomorrow. Moore: And that’s when it was time to come to Pasco? Ash: Yeah, after a while, I worked for another building there in Tacoma. So then I came to Pasco because I didn’t like that job. But we came over to Pasco and I started working. I worked out there for J.A. Jones construction. We worked, when we first started, he wasn’t in the radiation and all of that. We built, or we helped to build, finish that high school in Richland. We built the first jailhouse, was in Richland. And the school on George Washington Way, we built that. And J.A. Jones built all the houses going up George Washington Way going down to the river, we worked in there. That school up there and going to north Richland and all those houses up there, J.A. Jones built them. So then they started to moving up, they got all the barracks built and all the trailer camps built and little things. Then we started moving out into the Hanford Area. Moore: I see. Where did you live, when you first arrived, where did you settle down? Where did you live? Ash: Well, I lived in Pasco. Moore: Okay, were there many African Americans or black people in Pasco at that time? Ash: Yeah, there was quite a few, there was. I lived in Pasco ever since I came from Tacoma. I been living in Pasco ever since. Moore: So you must like it here. Ash: Hmm? Moore: You like it here. You settled down and stayed. Ash: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Moore: And you raised your family, you have—your wife is here with you. Ash: Well, I was only here one week and then I went back and got the wife and the two children and the other two were born over here in Tacoma. So we went and got them and we came back. Because I couldn’t stay over here by myself. So I went back and got my family. Moore: So you never lived in the barracks. Ash: No, I didn’t live in the barracks, mm-mm. The water got so high one time that you couldn’t get across from Pasco to Richland, you couldn’t. You had to go way around down there and come across the ferry, and come all the way around from back on the other side of the river— Moore: The ferry was— Ash: Come over there and we had to stay overnight until the water went down. But it worked it out okay. But I just never did like to stay in Richland. One thing [UNKNOWN] I didn’t. And I got to Pasco, and I went and people was in Pasco, so I just stayed there. Moore: Yeah. Do you recollect the names of some of the people who were here when you came? Ash: Oh, boy, let’s see. I can remember Newborne. Newborne was there. And [UNKNOWN] was here. Boy, I tell ya, it would really take me a good while to remember lots of little peoples. Moore: Okay, we can come back to that then. Tell me, Mr. Ash, how did you feel about working at Hanford? And I mean by that, the kind of working conditions, treatment of people, interacting with other workers? Ash: Well, after I went out there and started working in the area, I worked with lots of different people, and I got along because I tried to do my job well. I worked steady, I did. And I got with some good foremans and things, I did. And after they started Q clearing peoples to going in the Hanford Area, then I went down in the Hanford Area and we were going from building to building, started working in the radiation and stuff like that. When I got going in the Hanford Area, my superintendent was Ralph Erickson, and that’s the first superintendent that I was under. And I stayed under him 27 years, under Ralph Erickson. He really was a good superintendent. He was over all the whole 100 Area, starting at the river, plumb back all over the 100 Area, he was the superintendent over that whole area, he was. And after I went over to 2-East and all those different places, and got in there with him. I stayed in 100 Area from that time I went in there until I retired. But he didn’t stay there himself that long. I was under him 27 years, and then they sent him to another job out back down South some place— Moore: And you remained there. What year did you retire? Ash: Huh? Moore: What year did you retire? Ash: I retired, I got that in my—right in my purse here. Moore: You keep that with you. Ash: Well, you want me to get it out right now? Moore: Sure. Ash: Okay. So then they had another superintendent in the Area. He was a good guy. There’s one thing about it. I got along with black, other peoples. Now, I retired Seven and 31st, 1981. And I served out there for 35 years. Moore: 35 years. Ash: Mm-hmm. I raised up my whole entire family, raised, put all my children through school, everything on that one job. But I can say one thing, my daily prayers were, when I started working out there. I worked for lots of good peoples. I worked with lots of ornery peoples. You gonna find that everywhere you go, see. But I seen peoples quit, I seen people leave. But one thing I had in mind, I wanted to take care of my wife and children, I wanted to raise them up. And my prayer was, each day of my life, it was the good Lord to bless me to stay on that job and get along with my foreman, my supervisor, raise my children up while they get an education and put them through school, all for that one job. Moore: And your prayer was answered. Ash: So the good Lord blessed me to raise all my children up to get grown and to finish school. Me and my wife have been together for 80 years—62 years. We’ve been married that long. Moore: Congratulations. Ash: And I can say one thing—61 years. I can say one thing, one thing we can say a lot of people can’t say, we never passed a lick through fighting or mad or cussed one another out in our whole life. We really helped and we raised up our children. Moore: And that’s saying a lot. Ash: And we’ve taken care of them off of that one Hanford job. See? So I give the good Lord the credit for that. Moore: Mr. Ash, you tell me you have raised your children here and I was just curious if you could tell me the children’s names and where are they living now? Ash: Well, Angie, she’s in Pasco. And Betty’s in Pasco, and Mary’s in Pasco. They all three of them are. And Ed, he’s in Texas. What is it, the name of the Texas town? He’s in Texas. Moore: So you have four children, and three of the four are still here. Ash: I have four, mm-hmm, three girls, one boy. So after we—then we started going into the radiation and all like that. We really went through lots of radiation and laying houses, going through there. It was a job. I must say I met good peoples, I met some bad ones. But I tried to get along with everybody, and so— Moore: Let me ask you a question about that, because some of the people we’ve interviewed have talked about a time when at least the barracks, say, were segregated. Could you tell us about segregation that you observed, or was that on the job, off the job? Ash: Well, one bad part, before we went into the Hanford Area, we were in downtown Richland, and we were building all them houses and barracks and all like that, they had one superintendent over the whole job down there, he did. And when they got started, they had—this guy tried to segregate the peoples in the restrooms. He wanted the black over here and the white over there, this superintendent did. And so I just remember now who was it that reported that guy. But it was somebody reported him, and one of the head peoples came down there and told him, said, we’re not gonna have that. You’re gonna build one restroom—one for the men, one for the women. And they’re all gonna go in there. They fired that superintendent and took that job away from him. J.A. Jones put in another—J.A. Jones were building them houses. Moore: So this was not a J.A. Jones policy. Ash: Huh? Moore: J.A. Jones didn’t have a segregation policy. Ash: No, uh-unh. I didn’t have one. Of course they had peoples working there, you know what I mean, this and that. Just like, one time when I was out in the Area over there, we had—we used to—they had a big animal farm. They were testing radiation through lots of these animals. They were testing peoples, you know, through there. And so I was in there. So one guy, my superintendent, and then they had another superintendent, and then they brought in the little superintendent from somewhere down in Arkansas. And you know how a bunch of men get up. They had cows, they had a few hogs out there, and they had some hog that they were testing all kinds of animals to see how much radiation could an animal take. We had several black guys up there had a good job feeding these animals radiation to see how much can they take. Then they had a bunch of sows and a bunch of dogs and had pigs, I think. So, a bunch of men got together to come up with one standard one time. I had a couple of problems with this guy, this assistant superintendent. So we all men were working in there with the animals and all. So you know how a bunch of men get, say, oh, I’m gonna take this here for my girlfriend, I’m gonna take this here. So we had—talking about them pigs. So they had some sheep and they had—so this superintendent that they brought from down in Texas or something. Now, I’m the only black guy in the whole bunch. I worked in there one time with 60 white people, and I was the only black guy in the bunch. Course, I finally got along with them, because I’m like this, I can work with a guy all day. If he don’t want to speak to me, I don’t have to speak to him. That’s just the way I am. But this superintendent, he come in there, he ends up. So they had this little shed, and they had a whole bunch of white Chester hogs. So everybody picked hogs, some had picked a little dogs, some had picked—you know a bunch of men. So he jumps up said, he says, Ash, I pick one for you. Because he said, those sheep over there got a black head, so you pick out you one of them with a black head. I said, okay, that’s fine, that’s okay, I said. That’d give me a girlfriend, too. He said, I’m gonna take these sows, he said. They’re my girlfriend. Clean, white girlfriend, that’s mine. I said, okay. So it rocked on there for months, oh, seven, eight months. So they were trying to breed those sows and things and get a whole bunch of pigs so they could have more animals to, you know, they could feed radiation. So they had a white male in there and he stayed there, and that sow come up with piglets, and that sow got pregnant. So they killed him. They killed him. I went down there one day, there was a black male pig in there, didn’t have a white spot nowhere. I don’t think his tongue was even red. I mean, he was black from head to foot. About three months, all the white sows were coming up with pigs. So this superintendent—at that time we had a whole bunch of supers—the head superintendent and all, they were down there, going over, they’d go over and do different things. So here come Lee—that was that little superintendent I was telling you about that told me, you could—so, me and truck driver standing there, and Lee come in there. I told him, I said, watch, I’m gonna make Lee mad. I knew it would make him mad. I said, hey, Lee, come here. And he come up there. I said, look at me and all these white girls in here. I said, just look at me, all these white girls. I said, boy, we got white pigs, and I got a white pigs, I got white children here. That Lee turned red, oooooh, he turned red, he got mad, he walked on out. So the head superintendent come up there and said, what’s wrong with Lee? So the truck driver told him, Ash told him look at me and him with all these white girls. He said, Lee got that mad? He said, we can’t stand for nobody being here like that. Said, I thought Lee was a better guy than that. So they got rid off Lee. They told Lee, he’s got to get it right otherwise he’s not gonna stay. But Lee was so mad, he got rid of Lee anyway because he just didn’t like it, so they told him he had to—they got rid of him. That’s the one thing I have. Of course, it tickled me, everybody was in my favor anyway. So I had to call the business agent on one superintendent. So I got that scrape. At first, before we started, before I was union, [unknown] were getting double time for all overtime. Why, then, we had another agreement, if I were working with another guy overtime and he got double time, we got double time. Until we got [unknown]. So we had this assistant superintendent, he had just got set up there. So when I was working there, I told him, I said, don’t forget the double time now of working with these ironworkers. He said, just ‘cause you working with the ironworkers is no sign I’m gonna pay you no double time. I said, well, I’m supposed to get it. I says, that’s a union agreement. He said, well, I’m not gonna put it on your card. I said, okay, that’d be fine with me. So that Friday when I got paid off, my double time wasn’t on there. So I called the timekeeper and he said, well, let me get in touch with downtown. And the people downtown said, well, he told him not to pay me the double time. So then I called the union hall, called my business agent. He said, okay, I’ll be right out. So he came out and got with the head superintendent and had a dealing with the superintendent over the whole entire rig. He told him about it. I done called this superintendent downtown to the head office and asked him, the union told us, now listen. He said, I pulled up the main office here. I put up a picket here and then nobody would be down here working. Because the union that time had this agreement. If one union put up a picket, the other members can’t cross it. They had this agreement. No union could cross another union picket. So, he called that superintendent down there and told him. He said, well, I just felt like I had the power that I didn’t have to pay. He said, you don’t have that power. He said, I’m the only man who had the power to say what they can get. He said, you out there, you got to follow union scale. So he said, now the business agent is here, and the business agent said Mr. Ash has got to get his money before the day is out. That was Friday. He got to get him his money back out there what you was supposed to pay him. So this timekeeper brought my extra money back out there. So here come this superintendent that the timekeeper brought my extra money back. And the old superintendent passed by me. I shook my check in his face. I said, here it is, big boy. I said, it ain’t over your dead body, but I got it. [LAUGHTER] And he worked around there—we worked around there about three weeks before he would speak to me. But he found out he couldn’t do nothing about it and he finally calmed down. Moore: Yeah, sometimes you have to do what you have to do. Ash: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that’s about the only problem I really had had. Moore: I have one other work-related question. You’ve talked about radiation and construction. Did you have any idea what everyone’s mission was and what they were working on? Ash: On radiation? Yeah, we had quite a bit of radiation. Moore: And what it would be used for? I guess I should go back, because you were after the Manhattan Project, so it wasn’t necessarily for the bomb, was it, at that time. So the mission was different. Ash: Well, you see, when we was out there, all the reactors was under radiation. Every spring of the year, they would close the reactor down and they would go through them and remodel them. They would do about five months of work remodeling them, fixing this, putting new stuff in this. All that work was radiation. You works in there for the whole time you’re remodeling. You did. See, you worked in there. I worked in radiation. I worked in the Hanford radiation. Lots of days I worked in that radiation for weeks and weeks at a time. Moore: So were the reactors producing plutonium? Ash: Well, no, we were remodeling. But the building is all crapped up with radiation. Now, some places like the Pipefitters’, now, if they had a job that they gave to them to put in some pipes, they said the radiation was too high or too strong, it had to be cut down. You know, go in there and sterilize it and cut it down to a certain point to where a person could work in there. Well, that was the laborers’ job. I was in that job like all the time. Every time I had to go in there and decon radiation, clean it up to where some crafts could go in there or leave it where we could go in there. Moore: So you were involved in decontamination. Ash: I was in that deal. Every one of the 105s had that deal. But every year, they would close down to remodel. And then you’d go in the remodel, back there, everybody went back in there, I don’t care what craft you were, you were in radiation. You had to put on, oh, we had shoes you had to put on, pair of boots you had to put on, we had to put on an extra pair of clothes. You put off all of your clothes and then you dressed in the radiation. Sometime you got a mask on, sometime you got—oh, just anything, because then when you get in there to work, you got a timekeeper in there to check how much time you can stay in there. You got a pencil in your pocket— Moore: That’s a dosimeter pencil? Ash: No, that’s just a pencil that picks up the reading of what you’re getting. You got that in your pocket. Then you got another little deal that they puts on you, that if you got radiation it’d beep—a beeping pencil. So you had an RM that do the check you out. He’s standing right out there. And if you’re out there deconning a place to where these guys can work, the RM would get you with a machine. Moore: The radiation monitors? Ash: Yeah, radiation monitor. He’d tell you, say, well, this place then is clean. This guy can work in here now for eight hours. Or he can work in here for four hours without picking up radiation. That’s what we were doing. In some places it was so hot, you can work in there under an hour, then they got to change peoples. Then when they got through decon, we got to go in, pull of our clothes, and you got three step-off pads. You got a guy helping you to undress. Now all the clothes you got on now is all hot and full of all that junk. One guy got to pull all of that off of you. He got to pull them boots off of you, and then you step on this pad. You go to the second pad, and you pull the rest of your clothes off. They supposed to be cleaned. Then you step on the next pad, and the only thing you got on there is just your shorts. Then the man come down, he check you all over. You don’t put nothing in your mouth, you don’t smoke a cigarette until you wash your hands. Until he done check you out, you don’t, until you wash your hands. Moore: So they were very careful. Ash: Yeah, mm-hmm. So then you go and you’d come out there and you’d sign out. You got to sign in on a piece of paper when you go into radiation zones, and you’ve got to sign out. And when you sign out and that’s just the way it is. And if you go in there and you got all sort of crapped out with the radiation, then they’ve got the monitor to come out there and they’ve got to clean you up. Sometime it’d take half a day to get you all clean. They got to scrub you down, wash you down, then they got to put this on, and wash you down, wear that, and check you all over again. I got so heavy one time, they had to cut a piece of hair off my head and scrape my head quite a bit. So it’s—but if a person fall into radiation, follow the—the only time a person really got crapped up, and some guy—now, I know several people have got it in their skin. If you had a cut place on yourself, you supposed to come out of there right now. But some guys, some of the people feel like they got more education than other people, they can stay in there for a while. Oh, I can do this and I can do that. That’s the time you’re gonna get caught up with it. So that’s what happened with quite a few people. But I got crapped up several times. Several times, they’d taken two and three hours to get you clean. But they gonna clean you before you leave away from there. And then you’d come back the next day, they still gonna check you again. Moore: They can’t risk it spreading. Ash: Huh? Moore: Can’t risk it spreading? Ash: Yeah. Because it is a risk. Yes, if you get it inside, you get sick. It just stay in there as long as you live, and that’s the way it is. Moore: So when the work day was over and you go home at night or it’s the weekend, what kinds of things did people, did you or your friends do away from work? Did you have social things that you did? Ash: Things we did away from home? Moore: Mm-hmm. Ash: Oh, well, I’d say I didn’t do too much. I come home and stay home. Stay home with the wife and children sometime. Sometime we’d get up there and we would go downtown some place. Sometimes we’d go out of town but by the time we’d go out of town, me and the wife and children would go in Oregon someplace, drive around. Just about everywhere where me and my wife would be going, the children was with us anyway. Moore: Was there much to do in Kennewick and Richland and Pasco? Ash: Well, I didn’t find too much to do. Of course a lot of them people I guess were going in taverns, drinking, they probably were having beer. But I wasn’t drinking so I didn’t need to go in no tavern. Moore: I hear you. Ash: So my place was, I’d go to church, this place right there. I’d go out of town some weekends. So that’s about the size of it. Moore: Okay, well, I appreciate all the information you’d given me today. After retirement, have you kept in touch with people from the Site at all? Ash: Yeah, well, since I’m retired now, I just really couldn’t, I’ve been working taking care of myself ever since I was 14 years old, 15 years old. So I just can’t—some people retire—I can say this, but we got what you call the whole J.A. Jones retirement picnic. We go to Prosser every year, there’s a big picnic, I guess you’ve heard about it. Moore: I think you told me something about it in August. Ash: Yeah, I did. And we got about three or four women there. You go there, they call the roll, how many’s gone, how many J.A. Jones left here. They call the roll, all of them J.A. Jones people that died and all of us that’s left. And you know, I go over there and I look just at the people that retired and just sit down. Boy, coming out there that can’t walk, they got on crutches and canes staggering around. But I found out one thing about it is the second—you can take a brand new car and you can sit it in that garage for two years and it’s no good. That’s right. You can’t start it. It won’t never run good. So that’s the way it is when a person just sits down. But I feel better doing something. I do a little odd jobs now since I retired. I didn’t retire and just sit down. I got me a little odd job to do. I’ll do a little hedge trimming. I fool around, I got experience on trimming shrubs and like anybody want ‘em, what shape they want ‘em, I can trim ‘em. Moore: Keeps you busy, keeps you young. Ash: Huh? Moore: Keeps you young. Ash: Yeah, so? I got some good peoples. I got [UNKNOWN]. I got my doctor, I been taking care of his place for 23 years. And I got another business guy over there. I’ve been taking care of his yard and shrubs there for 27 years. The whole west side, I worked on their yard, because I used to take care of them when I was over at Hanford part-time. So I just got to keep a-doing something. Now, you want me to feel bad, and loaf, if I can sit around here for a whole week or something like that, I’d go out of town for a whole week, I ain’t got nothing to do, when I get back here, I’m just about [unknown] I gotta get out there and get to doing something. Moore: [LAUGHTER] Well, I think you have the right idea, because it’s keeping you fit and keeping you young. Ash: It do. Well, like they say, if you used to doing something, then you got to keep active. They said that. I’ve seen too many people—I worked with a guy, him and I worked together. And I was somewhere in the neighborhood and I was way older than he was. He retired since I retired. And I met him one day down there, and looked at him. Here you come, some peoples on this side of him, other people on this side of him, holding him up so he could walk. And I’m somewhere over ten years older than he was. I asked him, what’s wrong with you, fella? He said, well, when I retired, I was gonna take it easy. He said, so I retired and I went home, I got me a case of beer, and I sit up and drink beer and I watch the football game. That case out, I go get me another case of beer, sit home and watch the football game. So I says, now, you just watched the football game too long and now you can’t walk. He said, mister, that’s about the size of it. But if you believe it or not, if you used to working, you gonna have to keep something to do. It may not be much, but you got to be active. If you gonna sit down, you ain’t gonna be there long, and that’s for sure. If you go sit down, you just gonna be— Moore: That’s good advice for all of us. It sure is. Ash: Rip Davis, one time, he was a guy—he was a head man over at the operators. He retired but like I did, and he went home, he went home and he said, I’m gonna take it easy. He hired a guy to take care of his yards, he hired a guy to take care of his shrubs and everything. I said, Rip, what you doing? He said, oh, I got everything hired out. I said, Rip, you better start a-doing something. He said, oh no. And about, oh about a year after that, I seen him, he come dragging along. He said, Ash, you looking awful good. I said, yeah! He said, you know one thing, I’m gonna run that guy off of my yard and I’m gonna start doing my yard myself. He went up there and he run all them people off his yard, he started doing it and the man looked better the next time I seen him, he looked better. [LAUGHTER] Moore: There you go. Yeah. Oh, okay. I’d like to ask permission, if it’s okay for us to film some of the photographs of your family just so we have them on tape. Ash: Yeah, that’s fine with me. Moore: And the editor may bring some of those into the final tape. So thanks for all of that information. [VIDEO CUTS] Moore: The other one is 20. He lives at home still, works for Leonard. But, yeah, they’re big boys. I wish we could recognize some people in this one, but there’s just too many shadows on their faces. Some of those workers? With those hats and everything. Ash: Yeah, those are some hardhats. I know about them. I wore them a lot. Them hardhats. You had to wear them hardhats. Mrs. Ash: When we first came in, they had a little joint down there on Lewis Street, and boy that was a jumping new place. All the peoples went. But you know it was never much [inaudible] Moore: Virginia Crippen, I heard about the Chicken Shack, and Tommy Moore’s Poulet Palace and some other places. Mrs. Ash: Virginia, she found herself having chicken [inaudible] really good. Moore: Yeah, we interviewed her too. I guess she came up just because—she didn’t ever work out there, but she heard that people were here and they could use some places to eat. And she lived out in California or Portland or somewhere and came up and opened her chicken place. Mrs. Ash: She did! Moore: She did all right, I guess. Hanford Sites Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview J.A. Jones Construction 300 Area 345 Building 100-H 100-B 100-C 100-D 100-DR K East K West 100-N 100 Area 200 East Area Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1947-2012 Years on Hanford Site Years on the Hanford Site, if any. 1947-1981 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Edward Ash, Sr. Subject The topic of the resource Hanford Site (Wash.) Tacoma (Wash.) Pasco (Wash.) Richland (Wash.) Kennewick (Wash.) Migration Nuclear reactors Segregation Racism Radioactive decontamination Description An account of the resource Edward Ash, Sr. moved to Pasco, Washington in 1947 and worked on the Hanford Site from 1947-1981. An interview conducted by the African American Community Cultural and Educational Society (AACCES) as part of an oral history project documenting the lives of African Americans in the Tri-Cities during the Manhattan Project and Cold War. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource African American Community Cultural and Educational Society Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mpg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 08/25/2001 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F82dcdba7c4df618133ad558cac24be65.JPG 207a1551c47f5fd4414658a7299c8eb4 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F8320bb80772d2eab849c90d8c36275a6.mp4 ef9406b4fef35c9c6a5b78ec9e9d5161 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Documenting African American Migration, Segregation, and Civil Rights History at Manhattan Project National Historical Park (MAPR), Hanford Subject The topic of the resource African Americans; Oral History Description An account of the resource A National Park Service funded project to document the history of African American contributions to Hanford and the surrounding communities. This project was conducted through the Pacific Northwest Cooperative Ecosystems Unit, Task Agreement P17AC01288 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National Park Service Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 9/1/2017-9/1/2019 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource For permission to publish or for more information contact the Hanford History Project. Relation A related resource RG2D_4D AACCES Oral History Project Language A language of the resource English Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG2_8 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Vanessa Moore Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Virgina Crippen Location The location of the interview Home of Virginia Crippen (Pasco, WA) Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Vanessa Moore: --Vanessa Moore. I’m a member of the Triple-A-S History and Recognition Committee. This afternoon, I’m sitting here speaking with Miss Virginia Crippen. Virginia is going to talk with us a little about her experience here in the Pasco area in the early years in the ‘40s-‘50s timeframe and after that. So, Miss Crippen, we’re glad to be here and we appreciate you taking time to talk to us. First I want to start out by asking you, when did you first arrive in town? Virginia Crippen: In 1948. Moore: And how did you come? Did you come alone? Crippen: I come alone. Moore: What made you decide to come to this area? Crippen: Oh, well, there was work here. I opened up a business here. Moore: What kind of business? Crippen: Chicken. I sold chicken and barbecue. Moore: Oh, so you had your own restaurant? Crippen: Yes, I had my own place. Moore: I see. Was that the type of business that you had prior to coming here? Crippen: No, I didn’t. Moore: And where did you come from, what state? Crippen: I was born and raised in Texas, but I come from Portland, Oregon here. Moore: What had you been doing there? Crippen: Working in the shipyard. Moore: What kind of work? Crippen: I was a sweeper, they called it, at the shipyard. Moore: So you decided to leave there and— Crippen: Mm-hmm, I heard there was work here and there was no place for blacks to eat. So I come to Pasco to better my condition, I guess, that’s what you would call it. Moore: And so then also provide something for black people that they didn’t have. Crippen: Yeah. Moore: So was this just something you read about, that there were opportunities, or you knew someone who was already here by any chance? Crippen: Not—yes, very few people. Moore: Could you think of their names? Crippen: Yeah, I knew Bertha Smith. No, I met them when I come here. Really didn’t. Moore: Not too many people. Crippen: Not too many people. Moore: Where did you set up your business, your restaurant? Crippen: On 8th Street, east Pasco. Moore: And why did you choose east Pasco? Crippen: Because I didn’t have no other choice. Moore: Why was that? Crippen: Because they didn’t allow the blacks to have business no place else. Moore: So there were restrictions for where blacks could work and live also? Crippen: Yes. Moore: At that time, about how many black people or families do you think, would you say there were living here? Crippen: You know, there was—it wasn’t too many, but so many lived in the barracks. You know, men that couldn’t bring their families right away. They would come over. Moore: So they lived in the barracks but they would come to— Crippen: Yeah, and have chicken on weekends, barbecue. Moore: What was the name of your business? Crippen: It was really the Montana, but they called it the Chicken Shack. Or let’s go to Virginia’s. Moore: Let’s go to Virginia’s? Crippen: Uh-huh, or the Chicken Shack. Moore: That’s good. Got to be pretty well known, didn’t it? Crippen: Yup. [LAUGHTER] Moore: Let’s see here. Over the years, how did things go? Did you hear about what was going on out there? Did your customers say much about work out at Hanford? Crippen: No, they really didn’t. Because I worked mostly by myself and I was the cook and the bouncer. [LAUGHTER] So I didn’t do much talking. Moore: Did you serve liquor there? Crippen: No. Moore: Tell us what you think about the conditions for people in general living here, for black people living and working out here. Was it good, bad? Crippen: Talk about Pasco, you know, I didn’t work out there. But we had it tough here. The bank wouldn’t lend you no money. It’s just luck that I worked all my life and I saved a little money to establish my business and make it the best I could. Because we couldn’t even borrow money from the banks. Even in Kennewick, you couldn’t borrow no money from no banks. They didn’t even want you in Kennewick, period, black people. Pasco wouldn’t lend you no money. It was just tough. But if you had your own money, you could survive in east Pasco. Moore: And it sounds as though it’s a good thing that businesses like yours were here. Crippen: Yes. Moore: Because what other choices did the blacks have? Could they go eat anywhere they wanted to? Crippen: No. No, we couldn’t even go to the Top Hat, none of those places, and eat when I come in ’48. Moore: Stop for a second. I’m trying to-- [VIDEO CUTS] Crippen: Don’t put it on my yet until you tell me— [off-screen]: That’s all right. Moore: Virginia, I wanted to ask you a little bit more about your business. Did you have any specialties? What did the customers like to come in there most for? Crippen: Chicken or barbecue. Moore: Chicken or barbecue. Special recipe? Crippen: Not really. But everybody think it was a special recipe, because I—I have told people how I fix it, and they say they go home and fix it and it didn’t turn out like that. Moore: Did you only have black customers? Did other people come in? Crippen: No, I had Spanish and white. And black. Moore: Tell me a little more about that. You said something when we were off-tape. Crippen: Well, I fixed orders to take out, and I barbecued, fixed turkeys for people to take out. They was white. But I did have a lot of white customers that come in and sit down and eat, and Spanish, and blacks. So we mixed and all got along good. Moore: And you were willing to serve everyone? Crippen: Yes. Didn’t refuse nobody. Moore: Now, was it like that throughout the area, or were there other businesses who did? Crippen: Oh, no. We couldn’t eat at the bus station, we couldn’t eat at Pay Less, we couldn’t eat at Top Hat. We couldn’t eat no place. In fact, they wouldn’t serve us. Moore: So this was during the ‘40s, during that time. Crippen: Yes. It was ’40— Moore: Were there signs saying no coloreds? How did— Crippen: No, I didn’t see a sign. But when you get there they say, sorry, we just can’t serve you. Moore: For no reason. Were there other black-owned businesses? Crippen: Yes, Mrs. Wright had a trailer court. Moore: Was that located in Pasco? Crippen: East Pasco. Moore: And tell us again why most blacks lived in east Pasco. Crippen: Because they didn’t have no other choice. They lived in tents, cardboard houses, made the siding out of cardboard, the top canvas. The best they could do, because there was no place to live and it was work out at Hanford. Moore: Is that where most of the blacks worked? Crippen: Yes. Moore: So we have to presume the money was pretty good. Crippen: Yes. Moore: They’re willing to live in those conditions to stay here. Crippen: Miss Haney. Moore: Miss Haney? Crippen: Had a restaurant, too. Moore: Oh, she did? What was her restaurant called? Crippen: I don’t know, but Miss Haney—Haney’s Place. Moore: So later on as Hanford kind of wound down and people stayed in the area, could you tell us a little bit about how the area changed? Or maybe even before that, what did it look like when you got here? Were there a lot of houses, or just a small— Crippen: No. It’s sagebrush. [LAUGHTER] There wasn’t many houses. East Pasco didn’t have—very few. And then white people lived in east Pasco. Because it wasn’t many blacks when I come. But it was some blacks but it was no more—I can’t remember but five families at most, or four. Moore: This was in the late ‘40s? Crippen: Been here for years, yeah, when I come here. Moore: So the Manhattan Project had actually finished up by ’48 when you came, but blacks had remained. Crippen: Yes. Moore: Are the names of any people that are still here now that were here back then that you can recollect? Crippen: Yes. Luzell Johnson and his sister, Velma, sister, Bertha, they were here when I come here. The old-timers was here when I come here. They’d been here for years, but they all dead now. And I can’t really remember their names right now. Moore: Now, did you raise a family here, too? Crippen: I had one son. Moore: One son. And is he still in the area, or--? Crippen: He went to school here, finished school here. [VIDEO CUTS] [off-screen]: Go ahead. Moore: Virginia, I want to ask you a little more about some of the other businesses. Tell me about Johnny Reed. Crippen: Johnny Reed had a club. Moore: It was a dance club? Crippen: Yes, they could dance. And I had barbecue and chicken, too. It was like an after-hours club. Moore: So he served liquor there, and was it a popular place? Crippen: Yes, it was. Now he had practically all white, but blacks went, too. But he had a lot of white customers. In the beginning—it was afterhours. Moore: Where was it located? Crippen: On 8th Street, east Pasco. Moore: Another local business owner, Tommy Moore, could you tell me a little bit about him? Crippen: Oh, yes, Tommy Moore had a business downtown by the underpass. It was a beautiful place, a brick—a hotel and a downstairs restaurant, very nice place. Moore: Do you remember the name of his restaurant? Crippen: No, I don’t. Been so many years. So we just said—everybody just said, going down to Tommy’s. [LAUGHTER] Moore: There was somebody named Jackson, Jackson’s Tavern? Crippen: Yes, he had a nice little tavern. He built it. It was nice and had a restaurant in it. It was really nice. Moore: And then Sally’s. Crippen: Sally sold good food, very good food. Moore: You had a little competition. Crippen: [LAUGHTER] Really? But Sally sold lunches. I didn’t have nothing but chicken and barbecue, but she had pies and everything. She had good food. Moore: And was there a business owner named Lillian that you recall? Crippen: Yes, her and her husband had a barber shop. Then she started building a business, but she didn’t finish it. She left and went to California. She never finished her business, but her and her husband had a barber shop on Oregon Street. Moore: So there were business owners that had restaurants and places to eat and places to go for recreation and there were other services that blacks needed, of course, like get our hair done or the barber. Were there people to provide that? Crippen: No, not really, until later. Then Mrs.—she had a nice beauty shop. Moore: Maybe Mrs. Newborne. Crippen: Mrs. Newborne, yeah. Mrs. Newborne had a nice beauty shop on Oregon Street in east Pasco. Moore: So there were more opportunities for people to come in and set up businesses. Crippen: Mm-hmm, yes. Moore: Now, before that, what was the experience like trying to have some of these things, just at white-owned businesses? If I needed to have some dry cleaning done or my hair done? Crippen: Well, that was out of the question. We couldn’t even eat at the bus station. We couldn’t eat at Pay Less. We couldn’t eat no place in downtown Pasco, the white-owned. That’s the only place they had places to eat that I know about, was downtown. And we couldn’t go to those. Moore: How about shopping for clothing or groceries? Crippen: Oh, yes, you could go in all the grocery stores and dress shops and all and spend your money. And they treat you nice. You know, you spending your money. But you better not go to the bank and ask to borrow some money. You could put money in the bank, but you sure couldn’t borrow any money from the bank. Moore: So there were just certain boundaries that were set. Crippen: Yes, yes. [LAUGHTER] Moore: Okay. I want to thank you for taking time to give us this information. If there are names of other people that we should speak with, we have some—also some photos that we’d like to show you here later and there may be individuals that you recognize and we do appreciate—the History and Recognition Committee appreciates your time and the information that you’ve provided and everything you’ve done for the community. Thank you very much. Crippen: You’re welcome. [VIDEO CUTS] [camera operator]: Okay, go ahead. Moore: Testing the microphone to see if it’s working. Vanis Daniels: --but I can’t remember where I know him from. She look a little bit like Miss James. Miss James’ sister. Crippen: Oh, Miss James had a trailer court! Y’all got that? [VIDEO CUTS] Crippen: On Front Street in East Pasco. Daniels: She just got through telling us that. Crippen: Sure, she didn’t lie when she told you. Wasn’t no black church. I remember when they built Morning Star. And he died, little old short guy. Daniels: Mm-hmm, Reverend— Crippen: And he had children here. You know she played piano for New Hope—not New Hope, Greater Faith all the time. She hasn’t been dead that long. Mary? Daniels: Yeah, Mary Calhoun. Crippen: Mary Calhoun played the piano. But he sure did, he— <a href="https://youtu.be/7KrDyWUYEbg"> View interview on Youtube.</a> Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1948- Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Virginia Crippen Subject The topic of the resource Pasco (Wash.) Restaurant owners Discrimination Segregation Description An account of the resource Virginia Crippen moved to Pasco, Washington in 1948 and was a successful business owner. An interview conducted by the African American Community Cultural and Educational Society (AACCES) as part of an oral history project documenting the lives of African Americans in the Tri-Cities during the Manhattan Project and Cold War. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource African American Community Cultural and Educational Society Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mpg https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F460bf0c069b1509c1f5405507db163db.JPG d96569e00082f37da75221e8187f7896 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F511064dbbb642366c99c1617861762f1.mp4 09d0aef4fe35ec11b9eb26e2b32c44dc Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Documenting African American Migration, Segregation, and Civil Rights History at Manhattan Project National Historical Park (MAPR), Hanford Subject The topic of the resource African Americans; Oral History Description An account of the resource A National Park Service funded project to document the history of African American contributions to Hanford and the surrounding communities. This project was conducted through the Pacific Northwest Cooperative Ecosystems Unit, Task Agreement P17AC01288 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National Park Service Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 9/1/2017-9/1/2019 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource For permission to publish or for more information contact the Hanford History Project. Relation A related resource RG2D_4D AACCES Oral History Project Language A language of the resource English Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG2_8 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Vanis Daniels Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Benny Haney Location The location of the interview Home of Benny Haney (Pasco, WA) Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Vanis Daniels: Okay. Could we ask you your full name please? What is your name? Benny Haney: Benny. Benny Haney. Daniels: Okay. Mr. Haney, can you tell me when you arrived in the Tri-City area or in Pasco? Haney: In January ’44. 1944. Daniels: Okay. Did you come by yourself or did you come here with a group of people? Haney: No, I came with a group of people. Daniels: Who were the people that you came with? Haney: Charlie Harper. Daniels: Charlie Harper, okay. Did you have any relatives here in the Tri-Cities before you came here? Haney: No. Daniels: Approximately how old were you when you came? Haney: Around 21. Daniels: Where did you live before you came here? Haney: Kansas City. Daniels: Kansas City, Missouri? Haney: Yeah. Daniels: And before Kansas City, Missouri, where did you live? Haney: Arkansas. Daniels: Okay. Haney: Texarkana, Arkansas. Daniels: Texarkana, Arkansas. What kind of work did you do before you left Arkansas? Haney: After I left? Daniels: Before. Haney: Before? Daniels: Mm-hmm. Haney: The same thing you done. [LAUGHTER] He know what that was. [LAUGHTER] Daniels: Okay, but when you got ready to leave Arkansas, were you headed to Hanford, or did you go—well, you already said you went to Kansas City, but while living in Kansas City, how did you hear about the work at Hanford and Pasco? Haney: Charlie Harper, he was already here. And he come home for Christmas. I come back with him. Daniels: Mm-hmm. So, how did you travel when you came to Pasco? Did you come by train, car? Haney: Car. Daniels: And after you arrived here, where was the first place that you lived? Haney: What now? Daniels: Where did you live when you got here? Haney: Hanford. Daniels: At Hanford? Haney: Oh, overnight here and then went Hanford the next day. Daniels: Mm-hmm. [off-screen speaker]: In the barracks? Daniels: And was it in the barracks or at the trailer camp? Haney: Barracks. Daniels: In the barracks, okay. Were the barracks segregated, or did white, black and all live together, or did the blacks have their barracks and the whites— Haney: Oh, no, they’d bust up the men. They would separate the men when I got here. Daniels: So they would separate you when you got here. Okay. And when you got your job, from the barracks to work and back, what was your transportation mode? How did you get there, did they have buses? Haney: Bus. Daniels: So you rode on a bus, okay. What kind of work did they have you do out there? Haney: Labor. Daniels: Like digging ditches? Haney: The lumberyard. Daniels: Lumberyard, okay. Can you remember the name of the company that you worked for? Haney: DuPont, but I don’t— Daniels: DuPont? [VIDEO CUTS] [camera operator]: Okay, go ahead. Daniels: How did you feel about working at Hanford? Was it better than Arkansas and Kansas City? What I mean by that, how did the people treat you? Haney: The people did me all right. Yeah. Daniels: Did you work on a segregated crew? Was it all black or was it mixed with black and white? Haney: All black. Daniels: An all-black crew. Do you feel that your boss at the time stood up for you? In other words, did he—if you had a problem with, let’s say, a white worker, did he stand up for you? In other words, he didn’t let them mess with you while you were working? Haney: I had no problems. Daniels: What was the hardest thing you had to adjust to, coming from Kansas City to the Tri-Cities and living here? Haney: What now? Daniels: The hardest thing you had to adjust to? In other words, you came from Kansas City, which was basically a city, to Hanford, which is the country and dust and—well, there’s nothing here other than what you’re working for! I mean, how did you feel? Did you feel like that you would rather be back in Kansas City for the entertainment part of it, or— Haney: I did right then. Back in Kansas City right there and right then—there wasn’t nothing here. No nothing. Daniels: Yes. And did you—did they furnish any kind of entertainment or anything? Did they like bring singers or quartets or did they have dancers or anything for you? Haney: No. Daniels: None of that, huh? So, in your off time, like on weekends when you wasn’t working, what did you guys do? Haney: Well, right here at Hanford, nothing. We’d go to Yakima, on weekends, go to Yakima on the weekend. Daniels: Now, when you got to Yakima, did you have motels that you could live in? Haney: No, I didn’t go stay all night there, just go and come back. Daniels: I see, okay. Haney: There was girls in Yakima. Daniels: Okay, what did you guys do up there when you got up there? Haney: In Yakima? Daniels: In Yakima, yeah. Haney: I just sat around and talked. Have a little snort once in a while. Daniels: Well, all right! [LAUGHTER] Haney: That’s where the company was. There wasn’t no company at Hanford. Just the barracks, you go for bedtime, and you get tired of going there. The girls all liked that one place. [LAUGHTER] Daniels: Yeah, yeah! Well-- Haney: It was top-rated. Daniels: Now, when you got to Yakima and you was able—could you go in the tavern and sit down and drink? Haney: No tavern. Daniels: No tavern. Haney: It’s like a house. Daniels: I understand. [whispering] We’ll do this one and then the next one. [VIDEO CUTS] Daniels: Do you remember any other black people that you worked with out there at Hanford? Haney: Now? Daniels: Do you remember any other black people you worked for at Hanford, their names? Haney: Worked with me? Daniels: Yeah, that worked with you. Haney: Reverend Singleton. Daniels: Reverend Singleton? Haney: Yeah. Daniels: Okay. Can you think of anyone else? Haney: They’re all about dead. They’re all gone. Daniels: Now, you want to tell me about your job at Hanford? What did you guys do, other than work in the lumberyard? Describe what you did. Haney: Well, I worked on—[stuttering]—I learned digging then—shovel—digging. Daniels: Now, in the lumberyard, were you in charge of grading the lumber— Haney: No. I didn’t grade number. I pulled the nails. They called it boneyard. Daniels: You worked in the boneyard, mm-hmm. Now, did you do any other type of work, other than that? Do you have any funny stories or anything you can tell that happened while you was at work? Anything, maybe something that happened that’s unusual on the job, or something while you was at work? Anybody ever get hurt? Haney: No, no. Daniels: At work, anybody ever get killed out there? Anything that you know of? Haney: That I understand, no. Daniels: Well, you got anything else you want to talk about that may have happened, not only out there at Hanford, at work, but since then? I mean, you’ve gotta have some stories you can tell me that happened after you moved here to Pasco. Tell me a little bit about your family, your mom, your dad, your kids. [camera operator]: I want to— [VIDEO CUTS] [camera operator]: Go ahead. Daniels: Okay. Did anyone ever—did you know what you were working on while you were out there working? Haney: What I was working on? Daniels: Yes. Did anyone ever tell you that, we’re building—well, let’s say for instance like, we’re building a car? Haney: Nobody tell me nothing. Daniels: Okay, now, did you know what you were building when you were working out there? Haney: No, no. Daniels: Did you have any type of—anybody ever come around and tell you that you wasn’t supposed to talk about what you were doing out there? Did anybody ever tell you that? Haney: Yeah. I couldn’t talk about that now. I couldn’t talk about that. Daniels: So what you did out there, you did not know what it was for? Haney: No. [off-camera conversation] Daniels: I mean, were you curious? Did you ever ask anybody what, say, what are we building here? Haney: Nope. Daniels: As far as clearances go, did—what kind of clearance did you have? Did you have L clearance, Q clearance, or just a right-to-work— Haney: Right-to-work. Daniels: Just a right-to-work permit. [off-camera conversation] Daniels: How were your wages compared to—working out here at Hanford, how much money did you make, compared to when you left Kansas City? Haney: I made more in Kansas City than I made at Hanford. Daniels: Okay, then, you made more at Kansas City than at Hanford, but did you make more in Kansas City and Hanford than you did in Arkansas? Haney: I made nothing in Arkansas. You didn’t get nothing. [LAUGHTER] Daniels: After Hanford, what made you decide to stay in Pasco? Haney: I already told you that. I got a past I ain’t told you. [LAUGHTER] [Off-screen]: Go ahead. [Off-screen]: Say it. [Off-screen]: Go ahead. Haney: [LAUGHTER] Daniels: So when you left Arkansas and came to Pasco, you considered yourself coming from a bad place to a better place. Haney: A better place. Daniels: Okay. So you decided to stay here. You want to tell me a little bit about where you lived and what you did after Hanford? Haney: Come on with that again, what you said? Daniels: What you did— [VIDEO CUTS] Daniels: Now, when you came back, I understand that your mom and dad owned a trailer court and you rented little houses and— Haney: That was in 1947. When they owned the trailer court, ’47. Daniels: Well, when did your mom and dad come here? Haney: My dad was here in ’43. Daniels: Now, can you give me the names of your other sisters and brothers that was here with you, including your mom and dad’s name? Haney: I ain’t go no brothers yet. And then my sister here. My sister came here in ’44. Daniels: When did Joe Baby and Johnny and all them come? Haney: I think it about—I think it was in ’46. He come out in ’47 here, Joe Baby. Johnny was cantankerous. He couldn’t make it. [LAUGHTER] Daniels: Okay, now, you—how many kids do you have? Haney: Oh, phew. Daniels: “Oh, phew”? Haney: By that noise—by that noise—five. Daniels: Okay, do they stay in the area? Do they live here? Haney: Yeah, one of them, my daughter—your [unknown] and my daughter. Their home, they raised them in my daughter’s home. Daniels: Okay. Can you tell me a little bit about Pasco and the things that have happened to you that you know about that have happened around here since you’ve lived here? Haney: What now? What now? How’d you have that? Daniels: Tell me a little bit about Pasco. Were there any businesses here? Did black people own businesses here? Haney: Well, not really, yeah, in the east part. Yeah, in part of the state, black people have their business. Apex has their business out there. You couldn’t go to no—you couldn’t go in no white place now. No café, nothing, no tavern. Daniels: That’s some of the things we’re trying to get you to tell us, about like Apex, that you couldn’t go into taverns, you couldn’t stay downtown in motels or hotels or— Haney: No, no. Daniels: --or nothing like that. But what was the east side like? Haney: What now? Daniels: The east side, the east side of Pasco. What was it like? Haney: There wasn’t no businesses, nothing. Daniels: Wasn’t nothing over here? Haney: Wasn’t nothing. Millie’s house down there, about all. Baby’s house and Joe’s house up there. Daniels: About all that was up here, huh? Okay, your mom and dad had the trailer court. They rented to the people that worked at Hanford? Haney: Yeah. Daniels: [whispering] I asked that wrong. [off-camera]: Yes, you did. Daniels: Boy. [LAUGHTER] Now, did they—I mean, did they have families that lived on their trailer court, or were they just rooms? Haney: Some had families. Daniels: Did she also have a place for entertainment and stuff for the people after they got off work? Haney: No. No, they had a café. They had a café, that type of a place. It was a pool hall. Daniels: And in later years, for the people that worked out there and lived on her trailer court, there was, you said, a café, a pool hall. Was there a record shop and a barber shop there? Haney: Wasn’t no barber shop. It had a pool hall and a café. About it. And it had a tavern. The Caterpillar Café. [VIDEO CUTS] Daniels: Okay, were there other places like maybe Kennewick or Richland or even on the other side of town that black people could live while they worked at Hanford? Haney: No, Pasco was all for Hanford. It was recent. Couldn’t stay in Kennewick. Daniels: They couldn’t stay in Kennewick and they couldn’t live in Richland. Haney: In Richland and in Kennewick. Daniels: What about west Pasco? Haney: What? Daniels: What about on the other side of town? Haney: Pasco’s all right. It was Kennewick. [VIDEO CUTS] Daniels: Mr. Haney, is there anything else you’d like to tell us? Well, anyway, we thank you for the interview, and you were real helpful. So this concludes our interview with Mr. Haney. <a href="https://youtu.be/gGxbbzdXO6A">View interview on Youtube.</a> Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1944-2012 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Benny Haney Subject The topic of the resource Hanford Site (Wash.) Pasco (Wash.) Kansas City (Mo.) Yakima (Wash.) Richland (Wash.) Kennewick (Wash.) Migration Segregation Description An account of the resource Benny Haney moved to the Tri-Cities in 1944 to work on the Hanford Site. An interview conducted by the African American Community Cultural and Educational Society (AACCES) as part of an oral history project documenting the lives of African Americans in the Tri-Cities during the Manhattan Project and Cold War. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource African American Community Cultural and Educational Society Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mpg https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F751fe2d10a51ca573640af9f812eb806.JPG 45735fa368174ec64ab6f85a07746382 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F0972a37cea642f27a4da176071ad6e05.mp4 8c8102ed8125b4874d40e7b73279b517 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Documenting African American Migration, Segregation, and Civil Rights History at Manhattan Project National Historical Park (MAPR), Hanford Subject The topic of the resource African Americans; Oral History Description An account of the resource A National Park Service funded project to document the history of African American contributions to Hanford and the surrounding communities. This project was conducted through the Pacific Northwest Cooperative Ecosystems Unit, Task Agreement P17AC01288 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National Park Service Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 9/1/2017-9/1/2019 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource For permission to publish or for more information contact the Hanford History Project. Relation A related resource RG2D_4D AACCES Oral History Project Language A language of the resource English Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG2_8 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Luzell Johnson Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound [woman off-camera]: Can you see? Do I need to move that stuff out the way? Vanis Daniels: Yeah, we’ll move. [man off-camera]: I need to move up closer, too. Daniels: We’ll move all this stuff out of the way. [man off-camera]: And I need to move up closer. It’d be nice if we had him sitting back, away from the table. Daniels: Sitting back a little bit? [man off-camera]: Can you move back away from the table so we can— Daniels: Okay. [man]: So we get the— Daniels: I can—now, you want me to just pull him back? [man]: Well, he can stay right up to the table there where he is. I can just get on the end here. What I wanted to do was get it so we don’t have to pick up a whole bunch of stuff before we get to him. Because when we get ready to edit it, we’ll need to zoom it. We’ll need to do some zooming and stuff, too. Daniels: Now, we also can move the table back, too. [woman off-camera]: That’s right. That might be easier. [man off-camera]: Let’s just move the tables back. Slide it. Because I really don’t need nothing in front of us. Daniels: All right. We should have enough room now. [man off-camera]: That’s real good right there, I think. Daniels: Okay. All right. You need this? You don’t? All right. [man off-camera] These can come down a little more. That’s good. That should be good. That’s good right there. Now, we’re going to need a microphone on him. Daniels: I don’t need a microphone. Ah, damn. [Interviewer 1]: Mr. Johnson, we’re doing some work on the Manhattan Project here. You came to work on this area during this time, during the Manhattan Project in the 1943-1944 timeframe. Could you tell us or describe how you got here, how you heard about Hanford and a little bit about how you ended up here? Luzell Johnson: My sister and her husband, Joe Williams, they was in California working on a plant. And they left there and come to Hanford. And when they got there, they started working on the Hanford Project. They come home in February, I think, and they were telling me about—they told me about the job. They asked me if I wanted to come move out there— [Interviewer 1]: When you said they came home, where was home? Johnson: Alabama. Finchburg, Alabama. [Interviewer 1]: What was that in Alabama again? Johnson: Finchburg, Alabama. [Interviewer 1]: Frenchburg, Alabama. Can you tell us a little bit about what you were doing in Frenchburg before they came home and talked you into coming here? Johnson: I was working in a creosote plant. [Interviewer 1]: And at that creosote plant, what did you do there? What kind of—what were you doing, doing the work there? Johnson: Toiling, working on crane. [Interviewer 1]: And then could you describe, what, when you got ready to come out here, or getting ready to come out here in the transportation in getting out here, could you tell us a little bit about that? And then what you did when you got out here. Johnson: My brother had bought an old ’41 Plymouth, and he and Joe was working around places. He gave me the Plymouth. I drove the ’41 Plymouth out here. You want to know who come with me? [Interviewer 1]: Yes, I’d sure like to know who— Johnson: Emmett Brown and Charlie Dart and—I can’t think of the other— [Interviewer 1]: And those were all relatives of yours or were they just friends and relatives? Johnson: They was Joe’s sister’s kids. [Interviewer 1]: When you arrived in the Tri-Cities or Pasco, could you tell us a little bit about what it was like, what you found when you got here? Johnson: Well, I found the job was available when I got here. I went to a job when I was hired in, I was hired in as a cement finisher. And they didn’t have no spot to put a cement finisher. They put me as a laborer, sweeping floors. And I got a card to go to the army. I went to the superintendent and showed him the card, and he told me, why you didn’t come out as a finisher? I said, foreman told me they didn’t have no spots for a finisher. He told me, yes, we do have plenty of room for a finisher. Where’s your tools? I said, they back at the camp. He said, bring your tools out here in the morning, and I’ll put you in as a finisher. He put me on finishing. I got the card to go to the army. To go to the army, a 3-A, I think it was. [Interviewer 1]: On your living conditions when you got here, did you live in Pasco or did you come into Pasco and then go from Pasco out to Hanford, which is about another 40 miles? Johnson: Mm-hm. [Interviewer 1]: You lived in Pasco and then before you went off to the barracks, or did you come in and just go on out to Hanford in the next few days? Johnson: I went on out to Hanford. My sister was running the eating place. [Interviewer 1]: That’s the mess hall out there? Johnson: Mm-hmm. [Interviewer 1]: Yes, and I believe that we interviewed her and she told us a little bit about learning to do the juggling act on how she could handle all the food on her arm, how they taught her how to do all of that. Towards the end of the Manhattan Project, when that was winding down in late 1944 and early 1945, could you tell me a little bit about, you know, did you just stay here in Pasco, or did you go to Tacoma or go back to Alabama and come back, or--? Johnson: I went to Alabama, and I went down to the creosote plant. And the man offered my job back. I told him—he asked me what was I getting? And I told him I was getting a dollar an hour. And he said, would you come back? I told him, no, I wouldn’t come back for $0.35. I was getting $0.35 where I lived, an hour. So I come back there to Pasco. I come back to Pasco. I bought a little place in Pasco and that’s where I lived at 321 South Front Street in Pasco. I lived there for a good while and I decided to buy me a place, a bigger place of my own. I lived there on the place—George had a place out there, I lived on George place. And I bought some land and I built a house. [Interviewer 1]: During the time you came, during the Manhattan Project out there, I noticed there were some other people out there, African Americans, like my uncle Daniels, Willy Daniels and Vanis Daniels, and my father-in-law, David Casterburg also worked out there. Is that when you met those people for the first time, primarily Mr. Daniels, because I know you guys was great friends. Is that where you first met him? Johnson: That’s right. [Interviewer 1]: Tell us a little bit about what you guys did in the social life part of it. Would you go to church, play ball, or what did you do? Johnson: Play ball. I would go and look at them playing ball. I couldn’t play ball. I wasn’t good enough to play on the league. But Vanis and Daniel and the tall black man, I can’t call his name— [Interviewer 1]: Noble Johnson? Johnson: No. [Interviewer 1]: Was it Noble Johnson? Johnson: Mm-mm. Marion Zack. Daniels: Talking about Zack. [Interviewer 1]: Marion Zack? Zack Johnson? I’d forgotten about them, man. Well, and then you went back to Alabama. So kind of like what my relatives did. They worked and then they went back home, found out that, like you said, the pay was about what you said, from what I remember, and then when I came in ’47 it was kind of that way. So knowing what was out there, you came back out here and this is where you’ve lived since then. Johnson: Mm-hmm. [Interviewer 1]: Thank you, Mr. Johnson. [Interviewer 2]: Okay. Mr. Luzell, we’re going to back up, I need just a little bit of background information, okay? Now, what is your full name? Johnson: Luzell Johnson. [Interviewer 2]: No middle name. Okay, what year were you born? Johnson: 1912. [Interviewer 2]: 1912? Johnson: May 11th. [Interviewer 2]: May the 11th, 1912? Johnson: Mm-hmm. [Interviewer 2]: Okay. Do you remember how to spell the name of the town where you say you were born in— Johnson: Remember what? [Interviewer 2]: The name of the town you were born in? Johnson: Finchburg, Alabama. [Interviewer 2]: Is that F-L-I-N-C-H? Johnson: F-I-N-C-H. [Interviewer 2]: F-I-N-C-H. Finchville, Alabama? Johnson: Burg. [Interviewer 2]: Finchburg, B-U-R-G? Johnson: Mm-hmm. [Interviewer 2]: Okay. What’s your parents’ name? Johnson: Byas Johnson and Frances. [Interviewer 2]: Miles and Frances Johnson? Johnson: Byas Johnson was Pa’s name. [Interviewer 2]: Miles Johnson, okay. Johnson: Byas, B-Y-A-S. [Interviewer 2]: Okay, I’m sorry. And your mother’s name? Johnson: Frances. [Interviewer 2]: Okay. Were they born in Finchburg, too? Johnson: I don’t know, I think. [Interviewer 2]: You don’t remember. How many brothers and sisters did you have? Johnson: Three sisters and five brother. [Interviewer 2]: Are any of them alive now? Johnson: Mm-hmm. [Interviewer 2]: How many? Johnson: Two. [Interviewer 2]: Two brothers. Any sisters? Johnson: Yeah. [Interviewer 2]: How many? Johnson: Two—three. [Interviewer 2]: Two brothers and three sisters? Johnson: Mm-hmm. [Interviewer 2]: Okay. What kind of work do you remember your parents doing? Johnson: Farming. [Interviewer 2]: Farming. Did they own their own land? They were sharecroppers? Sharecroppers? Johnson: Yes. [Interviewer 2]: Okay, so you came out here with your brother named Joe? Okay, and he had been out here already previously? Johnson: Yes. [Interviewer 2]: He had come out here before and worked for a while? Johnson: Mm-hmm. [Interviewer 2]: And then he wrote and told you about it and that’s when you knew you wanted to come out here? Johnson: He came home. [Interviewer 2]: Oh, he came home. Okay. And do you remember exactly what year that was, Mr. Johnson, that you came out here? Johnson: ’33. [Interviewer 2]: ’33? Okay. Okay, and then he came home, what did he tell you exactly about this area when he came home? What did he tell you? Johnson: That I could go to work and get more money. [Interviewer 2]: He told you—did he tell you what kind of work you’d be doing? Johnson: Mm-mm. [Interviewer 2]: He just told you you could come out here and get a job. And then as I understood, you guys came by car. Did he come with you, or did you come by yourself? Johnson: He came with me. [Interviewer 2]: He came with you. Y’all drove the ’41? Johnson: Mm-hmm. [Interviewer 2]: Okay. And then, after you got here, tell me exactly, Mr. Johnson, when you got here, how many other blacks do you think were here at that time? Johnson: Oh, quite a few working on the job. [Interviewer 2]: Already? Johnson: Mm-hmm. [Interviewer 2]: In ’43. Mm-hmm. Now tell me, when you got to Pasco, did black people have houses? We’ve been told—I’ve been told that black people didn’t have houses in ’43. Did they have houses? Johnson: Yeah. [Interviewer 2]: They did? Can you remember any of the blacks that were when you got here already? Johnson: Mr. and Mrs. Coleman. [Interviewer 2]: Mr. and Mrs. Coleman. Johnson: Mm-hmm. [Interviewer 2]: Anybody else? Johnson: I can’t think of his name— [Interviewer 2]: Was Katie Mooney here when you got here? Johnson: Mm-mm. [Interviewer 2]: She was not? Was Miss Arlene Johnson here? Johnson: Mm-mm. [Interviewer 2]: She was not? Johnson: I didn’t know them. [Interviewer 2]: You didn’t know them, but they could have been here? I see. Now, where did you live when you got here? Johnson: Oh. [Interviewer 2]: The time you got here, where did you live? Johnson: I lived in the barracks. [Interviewer 2]: In the barracks at Hanford? They was segregated? Johnson: I guess they was. [Interviewer 2]: Blacks were in one area and whites were in another? Johnson: I don’t remember. [Interviewer 2]: You don’t remember. Johnson: I don’t think they was, though. [Interviewer 2]: Do you remember anything at all about the barracks? Tell me what you remember. Johnson: I remember you’d sleep in the barracks and you’d get up and go to the mess hall and eat. [Interviewer 2]: Get up and go to the mess hall and eat. And how long did y’all work out there? What kinds of work days did you guys have? Like, long work days or just eight hour work days, or what? Johnson: Eight-hour days. [Interviewer 2]: Eight-hour days. And the pay was a dollar a day? Johnson: An hour. [Interviewer 2]: An hour. And then, Mr. Johnson, when you were out there and you’d go to work and you’d come home to the barracks and to sleep, what did you do after work? What was the average day like? You didn’t just go to work for eight hours and come, go back and lay down. What did you do after work? Johnson: Go to a ball game. [Interviewer 2]: Go to a ball game? And that’s the Negro—the team that they had out at Hanford, do you remember the name of it? Okay, anything else they did out there for social life, other than the ball games? Johnson: I can’t really remember. [Interviewer 2]: You can’t remember. The lunch room, was it like a café sometime too? Johnson: No— [Interviewer 2]: At night? Johnson: Yeah, it was like a café. [Interviewer 2]: A café, didn’t they sell alcohol? Johnson: Mm-mm. [Interviewer 2]: They didn’t? Didn’t they bring entertainers out there? Do you remember any of them? Johnson: Lord. I picture them. Oh. [Interviewer 2]: That’s all right if you can’t remember that. Okay, tell me, tell me about when the church came. When was the first time you went to a black church over here in this area? Johnson: I didn’t go to a black church. I started a church in my home. [Interviewer 2]: And that was Morning Star? Johnson: Mm-hmm. [Interviewer 2]: What year was that? Johnson: I don’t know. [Interviewer 2]: About 54 years ago now, huh? Johnson: 55. [Interviewer 2]: 55 years ago. And that was the first black church in this area? What did y’all do for church before then? You just didn’t go? Johnson: No, that wasn’t the first Baptist church here. The Holiness Church is the first Baptist church. [Interviewer 2]: Oh, it was the Holiness Church here? Johnson: Yeah. [Interviewer 2]: How long had it been here? Was it here when you got here? Johnson: Yeah. [Interviewer 2]: And that’s where the black people went that went to church? Were there a lot of women working out at Hanford? Johnson: Mm-mm. [Interviewer 2]: Just in the mess hall? How long did you work at Hanford? Johnson: Worked until 1935, I think. [Interviewer 2]: You mean ’55? [Interviewer 1]: ’45, is when-- [Interviewer 2]: 1945? [Interviewer 1]: That was the end of the Manhattan Project. Johnson: When the war ended. [Interviewer 2]: When the war ended. Then what did you do next after you went back home and came back out here? What kind of work did you get when you came back out here? Johnson: I did—I was a cement finisher. [Interviewer 2]: Okay. Were there soldiers here during that time? Johnson: Mm-hmm. [Interviewer 2]: Where were they living at? Johnson: Navy base at Big Pasco. [Interviewer 2]: Were there a lot more men here than women during those days? ’43, ’44, ’45? Johnson: It was just soldiers here, more men. [Interviewer 2]: It was more men. What year did your sister come? Did she come right behind you? Sister Rae did? Johnson: Sister Rae? No, she—I came out here with them. [Interviewer 2]: Oh, she was with you when you came out here. Let me ask you something. When you—how long were you here before you got married? Did you get married out here? You didn’t? Johnson: I think I did get married out here, but I sat back and got my girlfriend and we got married at the courthouse here. [Interviewer 2]: I see. And how many children did you have? Johnson: Just one by that wife. [Interviewer 2]: How many do you have altogether? Johnson: Five. [Interviewer 2]: All living? Johnson: Mm-mm. Three are living. [Interviewer 2]: Just a couple more questions I want to ask you if you can remember now. Just take your time on this one. What do you remember as the worst thing that was going on here when you got here for black people? Johnson: Drinking and shooting dice. [Interviewer 2]: Drinking and shooting dice, that was the worst thing that was happening for black people? That’s not too bad for some people. Okay. What was the best thing that was going on here when you got here, beside the pay? I know you like the pay. What else good when you first got here from the South, what was the best thing that you liked other than the pay? Johnson: Ball games. [Interviewer 2]: The ball games. Okay, Brother Johnson, thank you very much. <a href="https://youtu.be/NArRQGHWChs">View interview on Youtube.</a> Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1944- Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Luzell Johnson Subject The topic of the resource Hanford Site (Wash.) Pasco (Wash.) Segregation Description An account of the resource Luzell Johnson moved to Pasco, Washington in 1944 to work on the Hanford Site. An interview conducted by the African American Community Cultural and Educational Society (AACCES) as part of an oral history project documenting the lives of African Americans in the Tri-Cities during the Manhattan Project and Cold War. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource African American Community Cultural and Educational Society Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 02/18/2002 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mpg https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F5bc28da2712e92cc111e8a42f58162b2.JPG b30c1468bb1898b28d47f878587786b3 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fe5108d812a6ed53c862e9510df2a9ba5.mp4 0a83e145bb516d9fac87440969f5d45d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Documenting African American Migration, Segregation, and Civil Rights History at Manhattan Project National Historical Park (MAPR), Hanford Subject The topic of the resource African Americans; Oral History Description An account of the resource A National Park Service funded project to document the history of African American contributions to Hanford and the surrounding communities. This project was conducted through the Pacific Northwest Cooperative Ecosystems Unit, Task Agreement P17AC01288 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National Park Service Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 9/1/2017-9/1/2019 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource For permission to publish or for more information contact the Hanford History Project. Relation A related resource RG2D_4D AACCES Oral History Project Language A language of the resource English Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG2_8 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Vanessa Moore Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Thomas Moore Location The location of the interview Pasco, Washington Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Vanessa Moore: My name is Vanessa Moore. I’m a member of the Triple-A-S History and Recognition Committee, and I’m here this afternoon with Mr. Thomas Moore to speak with him a little bit about his experiences living in the Tri-Cities and working out at the Hanford Site. How are you doing, Tommy? Thomas Moore: Fine. Vanessa Moore: Good. Just have a few questions we’d like to ask you. First of all, when did you come to this area, when did you arrive in the Tri-Cities? Thomas Moore: Some part of ’39. Vanessa Moore: That’s very early. Thomas Moore: Yeah, I don’t remember just what month. That was a long time ago, you know. Vanessa Moore: Mm-hm. Did you come alone, or did someone come out with you? Thomas Moore: No, one fella come with me. Vanessa Moore: Okay, could I get his name? Thomas Moore: Golly, I don’t remember. Vanessa Moore: It’s been a long time, hasn’t it? About how old were you at that time? Thomas Moore: 19. Vanessa Moore: 19 years old. Where’d you live before coming here? Thomas Moore: Corpus Christi—I mean, Alice, Texas. Vanessa Moore: Alice, Texas, is that where you’re originally from? Why did you decide to come? How’d you hear about it? Thomas Moore: Well, this friend of mine did. He was a cook. And he told me about the job, that they was paying a dollar an hour for cooks in Washington. Vanessa Moore: How’d that compare to where you lived? Thomas Moore: $17 a week, 12 hours a day, seven days a week. Vanessa Moore: Wow. So it looked pretty good, sounded pretty good. Thomas Moore: Yeah, sounded okay, yeah. Vanessa Moore: So you and he came together? Thomas Moore: Mm-hmm, yes. Vanessa Moore: Okay. Did you come and do that type of work? Thomas Moore: No. Vanessa Moore: Once you got here? Thomas Moore: No, we didn’t. Vanessa Moore: Let me back up just a little bit. How did you travel to the Tri-Cities or to Hanford at that time? Thomas Moore: To Hanford, we come on the bus. But— Vanessa Moore: From Alice? Thomas Moore: No, from Alice we come on the freight. Vanessa Moore: Oh, on the freight train. Thomas Moore: Yeah. Vanessa Moore: Okay. Thomas Moore: And what made it so bad was that he smoked and we were both hungry. But he had double troubles. He wanted a cigarette and then he wanted food, too. I just was hungry. He— Vanessa Moore: It was a long ride, it sounds like. [LAUGHTER] Thomas Moore: Yeah. Vanessa Moore: Now, once you arrived here, where was the first place you stayed? Were there relatives, or--? Thomas Moore: No, we didn’t have no relatives, no relatives here. No, we got off the freight in Pasco at that old depot down there. We didn’t stay here long. We just stayed—we just was hoboing. Vanessa Moore: Oh, okay. Thomas Moore: No place to live or nothing. You got out of there the first—fast as we could and we went over there to Seattle. Went over to Seattle and got a room at the Jackson Hotel. Vanessa Moore: Okay, so this was in 1939, and this was sort of just a stopover, and you kept on going. Thomas Moore: Yeah, I was on my way. To Seattle. Vanessa Moore: So, really you were headed for Seattle when you left Texas. Okay, I understand. But at some point, rather, though, you ended up back in this area. Thomas Moore: In 1949—in December, that I can remember good. In December, 1949, I come to look at a restaurant, cocktail lounge and everything that I purchased. The Poulet Palace. Vanessa Moore: The Poulet Palace? Thomas Moore: That was the name of it. Vanessa Moore: Okay, where was that located? Thomas Moore: On Lewis Street. Vanessa Moore: So in Pasco, here. And you had mentioned to me prior to the interview that you did some work—you did do some work out at Hanford with regards to surveying. Can you tell me about that? Thomas Moore: Oh, yes, we was working with—my job was I drove a jeep, and we had concrete on a sled. When they surveyors would put a stake down, I’d have to come along and take it back and dig it up and put a little concrete in there and put the stake back. Because when the wind blows so bad, the stake would blow all the way around. It was a little hard to blow that little wad of concrete that I had put the stake in. Vanessa Moore: I see. Tommy, when you were working on the railroad with the surveyors, about what year was that? Thomas Moore: That, I don’t exactly remember, but I’m thinking it was in ’42 or a little later. Could’ve been a little later, but that was at the Hanford Site. E.I. DuPont. Vanessa Moore: E.I. DuPont, okay. Thomas Moore: That was the name of it. Vanessa Moore: That’s right. Thomas Moore: We all knew that he made shotgun shells, but we didn’t know—nobody knew he was making an atomic bomb. Vanessa Moore: Wow, they didn’t tell you too much about that, did they? Thomas Moore: No. Vanessa Moore: So how did you feel about working at Hanford? Were there big crews? A lot of other blacks, or just a few? Thomas Moore: It was quite a few. Mm-hmm. We had—don’t remember too well, but if I’m not mistaken, we had our own mess hall when we finally got a mess hall. But before that, we was eating at a basement in the little town of Hanford. Vanessa Moore: The town of Hanford. So there was-- Thomas Moore: Yeah. Eating down in the basement. Vanessa Moore: So eventually, then, there was a separate mess hall from the blacks, separate ones for-- Thomas Moore: Yeah, I’m thinkin’. Vanessa Moore: I’ve heard that. Thomas Moore: Yeah, I don’t know for sure. Vanessa Moore: Now, on the job, do you feel you were treated all right? Can you tell us about that? Thomas Moore: Oh, everything went fine. Everything went okay. Vanessa Moore: I have to ask you this, what was the hardest thing to adjust to when you first started out here? Obviously, you came from a different state, you came from doing a different type of work. What was the hardest adjustment for you? Thomas Moore: There was no hard adjustment. We just went along with the flow. Vanessa Moore: Just go with the flow, everything worked out all right? Thomas Moore: Mm-hmm. Vanessa Moore: Okay. Separate from work, what did you and your friends and coworkers do afterhours? Thomas Moore: Well, sometime we would play baseball when we was working out at the Hanford Site. One time I remember—there was no women there, you know. Vanessa Moore: When you came there were no women? Thomas Moore: No, it was just all men. Vanessa Moore: So you had to find something to do. Thomas Moore: And what happened, we was having a baseball game one Sunday, and a lady showed up, but her husband had got hurt. We broke up the game because everybody wanted to go look at her. [LAUGHTER] Vanessa Moore: Did they get over back and finish the game? Thomas Moore: No, we was playing on our own. Vanessa Moore: Is that right! Thomas Moore: That’s the truth. We broke up the whole game. Vanessa Moore: Is that right? Now, I understand there was a baseball field out there. Is that right? Thomas Moore: Yes. I don’t remember exactly whether that was the field we were playing on or not, but it was— Vanessa Moore: [LAUGHTER] How long did you stay and work at Hanford? Thomas Moore: I really don’t know that either. Vanessa Moore: Months? Years? Thomas Moore: I time-checked—that’s what they referred to it then—and moved back to Seattle. Vanessa Moore: Time-checked. Can you tell me what that means? Thomas Moore: We just—you just turn in your time and everything and quit. Vanessa Moore: Oh, okay. Thomas Moore: So it’s what you say, time-checking, they call it. Vanessa Moore: And then you returned to Seattle? Okay. So it was a later date that you came back again to open the— Thomas Moore: Yeah, in ’49. In December, I come back to purchase the place in December ’49. Vanessa Moore: Okay. So you were one of the, if not the first, black-owned business in the Tri-Cities, it sounds like. Thomas Moore: I was. Vanessa Moore: That’s great, that’s great. Thomas Moore: And my family was the first of doing almost everything in the Tri-Cities. My daughter was the first—Shirley was the first one to work at the US Bank as a teller. Vanessa Moore: This was your daughter, Shirley. Thomas Moore: Yeah. And then my wife was the first one was a checker at a Safeway store. And my other daughter, my baby daughter, was the first one to win Miss Tri-Cities. Vanessa Moore: Wow. So many accomplishments in your family. Thomas Moore: It really went—everything we went to, pretty good. Vanessa Moore: Mm-hmm. Since we’re talking about family, tell me a little bit more about that. Are there—maybe your other children or businesses that you’ve had, things that you’ve done since those days? Thomas Moore: Since—from then, or before then? Vanessa Moore: Since then. Thomas Moore: Since then? Vanessa Moore: Mm-hmm. Thomas Moore: Well, I left from the Poulet Palace and went over and opened up a pool hall. And from the pool hall—oops. Vanessa Moore: That’s okay, you can just go ahead and hold that in your hand. [VIDEO CUTS] Thomas Moore: And from the pool hall, I just worked in there and come on until, in 1969, I worked eight years for Chuck Ackerblade in the scrap business, two dollars an hour. And then I opened my own place— Vanessa Moore: Scrap business also? Thomas Moore: In 1969. Hmm? Vanessa Moore: Scrap business as well? Thomas Moore: Yeah, scrap business in 1969. I worked for him just to learn the business. And then I’ve been in that for the last 32 years. Vanessa Moore: So that’s brought you a long way. That’s a thriving business here in the Tri-Cities, isn’t it? Thomas Moore: Well, it’s holding its own. Vanessa Moore: Yeah. Any of your children still in the area, and tell us a little bit about them? Thomas Moore: Well, I got—my son works with me. He started working with me when he could walk. Vanessa Moore: [LAUGHTER] Probably not working too hard at that time. Thomas Moore: Probably. He started following me when he could walk, and he been following me ever since. I got one daughter here and one daughter in Seattle. One son in San Diego and a daughter in Chicago. Vanessa Moore: Mm-hmm, but you’ve chosen to stay here. Thomas Moore: Oh, I guess I’ll cash in here. Vanessa Moore: Long time ago since Texas, isn’t it? Okay, Tommy, I really do appreciate your time and the information and you mentioned—I’m going to take us back a little bit because I neglected to ask you this, that they didn’t really tell you what everyone was working on out there. Did you have an idea, or did you suspect what it was? Thomas Moore: No, the only thing we knew, that I.E. DuPont made shotgun shells. Now, that we knew. [LAUGHTER] That was all that everybody talked about. So when you compared to—well, it had to be something explosive. Vanessa Moore: At least that much, we— Thomas Moore: The fella with the shotgun business and the shell business— Vanessa Moore: Was in charge. Thomas Moore: Something. But we didn’t, nobody knew. Vanessa Moore: Okay. Thomas Moore: You just do what you was told and get off and go back to the barracks. Vanessa Moore: And go back to the barracks. Now, you did live in the barracks for a while? Thomas Moore: Oh, yeah, it’s when I was living in the barracks and when I time-checked, I did. Vanessa Moore: Mm-hmm. Tell—can you tell us a little bit about what that was like? I mean, did they have rules like military barracks, or this was just the housing? Thomas Moore: It was just two men to the room, and there wasn’t nothing, you didn’t have no laws or nothing like that, you just went home and then they—full barracks and a washhouse in the center. Vanessa Moore: It was attached to it, or--? Thomas Moore: Yeah, it was a four units but then where they attached together, that’s where the showers was, the showers and the bathrooms and all that stuff. And then from that to the mess hall. Vanessa Moore: For eating. So pretty much everything was— Thomas Moore: So you really didn’t need anything else, you know. Vanessa Moore: It’s kind of like a little town. Thomas Moore: They fed good. Vanessa Moore: Is that right? Thomas Moore: Yeah. Vanessa Moore: Solid meals, huh? Okay, well, thank you very much. If there are names of others who worked out there, we’d like to know who those people were and maybe talk with them. Thomas Moore: I can’t remember nothing that’s been that far back. Vanessa Moore: Well, if something comes to you, let me know, I appreciate it. Thomas Moore: Thank you. Vanessa Moore: Thank you. [VIDEO CUTS] Vanessa Moore: Tommy, you mentioned before that you came to Washington state from Alice, Texas. I was curious about the type of work that you did in Alice. Thomas Moore: I was a cook at a restaurant. First, I started out as a dishwasher for five dollars a week and worked on up ‘til I got cook. But the reason why they wouldn’t give me a cooking a job, because I’d have to take a job as a dishwasher, because the restaurants was hard—they didn’t want to live any customers, and for a young kid, as young as I was, they wouldn’t hire you as a cook. But when the cooks—all cooks drink quite a bit. So when a cook showed up—or the cook didn’t show up because he was drunk, then I’d get in the kitchen and start from dishwashing go get on the grill. Vanessa Moore: So you were cooking anyway. Thomas Moore: Yeah, and then I’d get the job. [LAUGHTER] Yeah that’s about it. And then I—it was 12 hours a day, seven days a week. Vanessa Moore: And what kind of wages? Thomas Moore: Oh, the most I ever made was $17. Vanessa Moore: $17 a week, is that correct? Okay. So you had heard that in Washington State— Thomas Moore: It was paying a dollar an hour. Vanessa Moore: For the same type of work? Thomas Moore: Yes, and I had a 1935 convertible Packard, I bought it in 1937. They had a Plymouth, yellow with a black top, $875. I wanted to come and get it. It was 1940. Vanessa Moore: So you were motivated, is what you’re telling me. Thomas Moore: Yeah, that’s right, I wanted to come and trade my Packard in and get that Plymouth. Vanessa Moore: Thank you, I appreciate that. [VIDEO CUTS] Vanessa Moore: Tommy, there is a period of years between you leaving Hanford, leaving this area, and then coming back later on to purchase the Poulet Palace. What were you doing during that time and where did you live? Thomas Moore: Well, I lived at the Jackson Hotel and then— Vanessa Moore: This is in Seattle? Thomas Moore: In Seattle. And then I was working for George Crawford Smith at a restaurant. He didn’t know anything about a restaurant, but he had the money to buy it. So I went to work for him. And then, after a length of time—I worked for him for about a year and a half—I bought my own place. Vanessa Moore: Still in the Seattle area? Thomas Moore: Yes. And he said that I wouldn’t make it. So I told him, I said, well, Mr. Smith, you were 48 years old before you made it, and I’m 21. I can go in and out of business a long time before I get 48. [LAUGHTER] And still make it. So that’s life. Vanessa Moore: Mm-hmm. Did you spend any time in the military at all over your career? Thomas Moore: Yes, I’d volunteered for the Army Transfer Service. And I don’t exactly know how many years I was in that, but I made 22 trips to Japan, eight trips to Hawai’i, and eight trips to Jeosang, Korea. Vanessa Moore: You’ve been all around. Thomas Moore: I have been, yeah. I went more further overseas than I have in the United States. Vanessa Moore: Wow. Where were you stationed when you were in the service? Thomas Moore: Bremerton. Vanessa Moore: Bremerton, Washington? Thomas Moore: Yes. Vanessa Moore: Okay. So you’ve covered a lot of this state, too. Thomas Moore: Well, not too bad. Vanessa Moore: Not to mention, though, we’re all—well, Mr. Moore, we appreciate your time today. Thank you. Thomas Moore: Okay. <a href="https://youtu.be/Ty7vVsnjTS8">View interview on Youtube.</a> Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1949-2010 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Thomas Moore Subject The topic of the resource Hanford Site (Wash.) Pasco (Wash.) Seattle (Wash.) Migration Segregation Description An account of the resource Thomas Moore moved to Pasco, Washington in 1949 and opened many local businesses. An interview conducted by the African American Community Cultural and Educational Society (AACCES) as part of an oral history project documenting the lives of African Americans in the Tri-Cities during the Manhattan Project and Cold War. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource African American Community Cultural and Educational Society Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 06/23/2001 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mpg https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F2746c4dd39426589c31531fc11589f22.JPG e139e6816defff74fa770953d936012b https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F8f930b67f07c50461f9388fd736c9fb9.mp4 656b1c721576a6c2dcc9d4c84d5a3b32 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Documenting African American Migration, Segregation, and Civil Rights History at Manhattan Project National Historical Park (MAPR), Hanford Subject The topic of the resource African Americans; Oral History Description An account of the resource A National Park Service funded project to document the history of African American contributions to Hanford and the surrounding communities. This project was conducted through the Pacific Northwest Cooperative Ecosystems Unit, Task Agreement P17AC01288 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National Park Service Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 9/1/2017-9/1/2019 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource For permission to publish or for more information contact the Hanford History Project. Relation A related resource RG2D_4D AACCES Oral History Project Language A language of the resource English Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG2_8 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Vanis Daniels Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Olden Richmond Location The location of the interview Home of Olden Richmond (Pasco, WA) Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Vanis Daniels: My name is Vanis Daniels, II. And we’re here to interview Mr. Olden Richmond— [camera operator]: You can start over. Daniels: Yeah. Okay, my name is Vanis Daniels. We’re here to interview Mr. Olden Richmond for his information from Hanford and his contribution to World War II for our History—Triple-A-S, which is History and Recognition Committee. I’m from the History and Recognition Committee. And if Mr. Richmond doesn’t have anything, we would like to get started with the interview. Mr. Richmond, when did you arrive in the Tri-City area? Olden Richmond: 1943. Daniels: Approximately what month? Richmond: It must’ve been around—about April, somewhere around about April, something like that. Far as I can remember, it’s been so long. Daniels: Yeah, I understand. Did you come by yourself, or did someone come with you? Richmond: I had relatives come with me. Daniels: And could you give us their names, please? Richmond: Mr. Vanis Daniels— Daniels: That’s the number one. Richmond: And Edmon—wasn’t his Edmon? Daniels: Yes, mm-hmm. Richmond: Edmon Daniels. Daniels: And Mr. Edmon Daniels would be my great-uncle. Mr. Vanis Daniels would be my dad. And how old were you? Just say 29. Richmond: Oh, around 29, 30. Daniels: Right. Where did you live before you came to the Tri-Cities? Richmond: Kildare, Texas. Daniels: Okay. What kind of work did you do there? Richmond: Well, I did most all around. I farmed some, and I worked in the sawmill. That’s about all, the farming and working on the sawmill. Daniels: Okay. How did you hear about Hanford? Richmond: Well, I heard it on the radio. That they was going to put up a plant at Hanford, and so I checked with Mr. Daniels, my cousin, and got with him, and we made it up to come to Pasco. Daniels: Well, that would tell me why you decided to come to Hanford. How did you travel when you came here, how did you come? Richmond: Come on a plane. Daniels: On the train? Richmond: No, plane. Plane, caught the plane here. Okay? Daniels: Where was the first place you stayed after, when you got here? Where’d you live at? Richmond: Lived over here on Douglas in a trailer. Daniels: Did you ever stay in the barracks? Richmond: Yup, yup. We stayed in this trailer ‘til they got barracks fixed up for the laborers to go in. Daniels: Okay, now, was that for the laborers to go in, since everything was segregated out there, was those the black barracks they built for the black workers? Richmond: Well, it was mixed, yeah. It was made for the laborers, for everybody. Daniels: Oh, okay. And then how did they get you back and forth to work? Richmond: Bus. Daniels: And then what kind of work did you do, and the areas that you worked in? Richmond: Well, I’d clean up and digging the ditches and so on like that. Sometime, my foreman would put me with the concrete crew and I’d work with them. Daniels: And then what areas did you work at? Richmond: 200-West, and White Bluffs, we went all over, you know, cleaning up. Daniels: Did you ever work at B Reactor? Richmond: No, I don’t think so. Daniels: Did you work at C Reactor? Richmond: No. Daniels: Did you work at D and DR? Richmond: I think so. That was way out in—was that DR or—in White Bluffs, wasn’t it? Daniels: Yeah, D and DR is at White Bluffs, yeah. F and H, right. Richmond: It’s been so long, I can’t think of those things. [LAUGHTER] Daniels: Yeah, because—we may edit this part out, but from what I understand, you guys started at B Reactor. And you worked all the way through all the reactors, including, and the last reactor is, F. You had B, you had C, you had K-East, K-West, D, DR, H and F. Those were the reactors out there. Richmond: Yup. Daniels: And you guys were some of the first people to even go to, for instance, F Reactor, except the surveyors. My dad said when you guys got down there, wasn’t nobody there but the surveyors and a bunch of stakes. He said, because when they sent you guys over there, you was looking for a building. And there wasn’t no building nowhere to be found. They was wandering around, he said, took them almost all day to find it. Because they was looking—they knew approximately where it was, but they thought it was a building of some sort down there. And wasn’t nothing down there but a bunch of stakes down there. They had a truckload of stuff they had to unload. Richmond: That’s right, you’re right! Yup. Daniels: Okay. And who did you work for when you were doing this— Richmond: I worked for—what was that guy’s name I called? Daniels: Butler? Richmond: Butler. Daniels: Yeah, but what company was it? Was it DuPont--? Richmond: DuPont. Daniels: DuPont, okay. Richmond: DuPont. Daniels: Well, other than the fact that you came here because there were better wages— Richmond: Right. Daniels: --than you were making where you were, what did you like about working out there? Richmond: Well, I made more money. Came here to make a living and I had a family. So I liked it better here. Because I did fairly well when I come here. Daniels: Okay, now, from what I understand, from what you were making where you came from, and a full day’s work after you got here, you made almost as much money in one day as you did in a week back there. Richmond: Right, right, right. I worked a whole five days a week off the farm, $3.75. And I come here, they was paying a dollar an hour. That was with, running around when we was working out there for eight hours, and we run around maybe about three, pretty close to $500 a week. Daniels: Okay. How did they treat you out there? And you can go on and tell me about what we were talking about. Richmond: Yeah, well, I run into one redneck out there. I was down in the hole, cleaning out behind the ironworkers—you know what I’m talking about, when they burn those wires, you had to take it out, clean all of that, you know where they compose cement. So this one redneck he walked by me and looked down in the hole on me. He said, I should just kick your ass. And I looked up at him like that, and I said, no, you won’t kick my ass, I said. We will fight. And he started down in the hole, and I met him with the shovel. And he—the wire where the cement people were working at, just about tall as that fence there, and John Brown, he started to running and by the time he hit the ground, I was right on with him with that shovel. So Butler, he sees me running this guy, and he’s running off, he said, Olden, sir, what’s the matter? I said, this guy was saying he was going to kick my goddamn ass and I told him we were fighting, I told him, I say, we were fighting. So that settles that. So Butler fired him. Daniels: So by that, you’re saying that your supervision would stand up for his workers. Richmond: Right. Daniels: Whether they were black, white, blue or yellow. Richmond: He treated everybody the same. If you did wrong, you went. Daniels: Okay. What was the hardest thing about adjusting to being away from home and working out there at Hanford? Richmond: Well— Daniels: Getting used to, you had to get used to it. Richmond: I had to get used to it, yeah. From being away from home, you had to get used to it. And sooner or later, later on, I sent for my wife to come on and she went to work in the mess hall. So of course they had all the women, they had separate barracks. It had wire fences around it about like that tall at Charles Evans’ place there, and they wire all the way up. They’d let you up there at certain times and certain times you had to get out. You could go see—if you had a wife or something like that, you could go in there and stay until—well, you go around in there about 5:30, 6:00, what time you got through eating, then you go and stay with your wife until about 8:00, 9:00. Then they had guards at the gate. If you stayed too long, then he’s going to find you and get you out of there. Daniels: Oh, I see. One question that I’d like to ask is, what entertainment—after you was off work, like on weekends and things, what did you guys do? Richmond: Well, some gambled, some gambling and they had—what you call those things? A music box. They had a music box— Daniels: Jukebox. Richmond: --and a beer joint and everything in the recreation hall. That’s where we—some gambling, some running and drink, all stuff like that. Daniels: When you left off of the Hanford Site, where did you guys go for the weekend? Richmond: We come to here. We come to this side of the Tri-Cities. Daniels: Okay, and how long did you work out there at Hanford? Richmond: I worked up to ’50, 1950. Daniels: Okay. Do you remember the name of any of the black people you worked with? Richmond: Well, let me see. I worked with Cooper—you remember Cooper, don’t you? Daniels: Yes. Richmond: Well, I worked with your dad, too, and your uncle, Cracker. I worked with them. Daniels: Okay, that would be Mary and Barton, WL Daniels, Vanis Daniels. Richmond: We put in a railroad out there you know, remember? Daniels: Yes, yes. Richmond: And Willie Hicks, you know. You know Willie Hicks. I worked with him. Let me see, who else now? Russell, I worked with Russell out there. Daniels: That’s David Raines. Richmond: David Raines, yup. Well, I don’t know, it’s been quite a few. It don’t come to me right off. Daniels: Oh, well. If it comes to you, we can come back to it later. Do you have any pictures or any old pictures or anything like that from back then at Hanford? Richmond: No, I don’t have any pictures at all. Daniels: Well, do you know of any other people that we may talk to and get some information from? Richmond: Well, right off, I—it’s just like I was telling you about Reverend Barnes and Luzell Johnson, they probably can give you some information, too. And most of the guys that I could recommend, they gone, they’ve passed, they dead. So that’s the old-timers, you know. Daniels: Okay then. I’ve got a couple of more questions. Since you retired from Hanford, or left Hanford, how has life been in the Tri-Cities for you? Richmond: Well, it’s been real good, far as I’m concerned. About as well as you’d expect. Daniels: Oh, okay, okay. Well, could you tell me a little bit about your family, like how many kids you got, how many great-grandkids you got, great-grandkids, where they live in the Tri-Cities, whether they live in Pasco, Kennewick or Richland, and like that? Richmond: Well, John, Jr. he stays out there right across from K-Mart. And Stephanie, she stays in— Daniels: Now, John, Jr. is your grandson. Richmond: John, Jr. is my grandson and Stephanie is my granddaughter. And Sherry, she’s my granddaughter. And so, Melva, she’s my daughter. Daniels: Right, okay, and she lives in Pasco? Richmond: She lives on Sycamore over here in Pasco. Daniels: Okay. Richmond: So, let me see. I’m five generations of great-grandkids. So let me see. About six, I got six great-grandkids. And let me see, Stephanie—one, two, three, four—well, I got two grandkids in Flint, Michigan. [UNKNOWN] So I pretty well got around ten to twelve kids and grandkids and great-grandkids and all. Daniels: Okay, and you can tell me about your wives if you want to. If you don’t, that’s personal business. I mean, that’s your business. Richmond: About my first wife? Daniels: And your second one, too. Richmond: And my second one? Oh, I had a second wife, she was a doll. I love her right in the grave right now. She was the sweetest, sweetest thing. We never did have a fight. Never did have a fight. She always called me babe, someone, so-and-so, we’d have little spats or something, but we’d get together on it and everything. So that was the way it went. Yeah, I’d stand up there now sometime now and look at her picture and water run down my eyes. Daniels: I can imagine, I can imagine. Richmond: That’s the best woman I ever had. Daniels: And your first wife lived— Richmond: First wife, she lived in Texas. She in Flint, Michigan. So, well, we didn’t—she was nice. Daniels: Yeah. [VIDEO CUTS] Daniels: Okay, we’re going—when did your first wife come out? ’44? Richmond: I don’t remember what month she come. Daniels: What year? Richmond: She come out in the ‘40s. Daniels: Oh, okay. I think she came out in ’44. Richmond: ’44, somewhere in there. I don’t remember now. Daniels: And now, you know, you went out there and you went to work, and you understood that it was a great big defense job. And you was making more money than you’d ever made in your life, per hour. Do you have any idea, I mean not now, but back then, did you know—did you have any idea what you were making, what you were building, or anything? Richmond: No. No. Because we had FBIs, they’d come on through there, they walked all day long through there, asking questions. We did have no idea at all. We didn’t know what we doing. We don’t know what we were supposed to do, we were just there working, there to make a living. Daniels: In other words, they gave you an assignment and you did what you were supposed to do. Richmond: Yes. Gave me an assignment, I did what they told me to do. Daniels: Okay, did they do any explaining to the workers and things as to whether what they were doing was top secret and that what went on out there was supposed to stay out there, or did they just not tell you anything, or--? Richmond: Yeah, they said they didn’t want you to be talking. Daniels: Okay, at that time, did you have to have different clearances to work in different areas and certain parts of the buildings and things that you worked in? Richmond: Uh-huh. Daniels: And how hard was it for them to get a clearance for you? Richmond: Not too—it wasn’t hard. Daniels: In other words, you gave them the information as to where you were from and where you born, where you worked, where you had been in your life, and they were able to get the FBI to do some checking and you got your clearance from there. Okay, Mr. Richmond. That about concludes all of the questions that I have. Now, is there anything else you can think of or anything you’d like to tell us, or anything you’d like to say? Richmond: Well, that’s just about all I got for now. Daniels: Okay. Well, we thank you for the interview. And we can sit here and look at these pictures, because he’s going to cut that out. <a href="https://youtu.be/P1yJmnmnGgg">View interview on Youtube.</a> Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1943-2012 Years on Hanford Site Years on the Hanford Site, if any. 1943-1950 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Olden Richmond Subject The topic of the resource Hanford Site (Wash.) Pasco (Wash.) Migration Description An account of the resource Olden Richmond moved to Pasco, Washington in 1943 to work on the Hanford Site. An interview conducted by the African American Community Cultural and Educational Society (AACCES) as part of an oral history project documenting the lives of African Americans in the Tri-Cities during the Manhattan Project and Cold War. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource African American Community Cultural and Educational Society Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 06/21/2001 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mpg https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F9b9b824c2876af5e43f239333ee53cf6.JPG 91a00d141b86347a69036b0521d1e0ea Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Documenting African American Migration, Segregation, and Civil Rights History at Manhattan Project National Historical Park (MAPR), Hanford Subject The topic of the resource African Americans; Oral History Description An account of the resource A National Park Service funded project to document the history of African American contributions to Hanford and the surrounding communities. This project was conducted through the Pacific Northwest Cooperative Ecosystems Unit, Task Agreement P17AC01288 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National Park Service Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 9/1/2017-9/1/2019 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource For permission to publish or for more information contact the Hanford History Project. Relation A related resource RG2D_4D AACCES Oral History Project Language A language of the resource English Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG2_8 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview John Skinner Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed James Pruitt Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound John Skinner: Ladies and gentlemen, my name is John Skinner for the African American for an Academic Society History and Recognition Committee. Our committee has been involved with ongoing interviews with African American men and women that was brought or were lured to the Tri-City area in 1943-45 for the Manhattan Project, formally became known as the Hanford Atomic Energy Commission, and subsequent projects. Tonight we have with us, we have Jim Pruitt, a long-time resident. James, excuse me, James Pruitt, a long-time resident of the Tri-City area, community activist, civil rights leader, human rights leader, youth counselor, and a number of other things. Jim also has a wealth of knowledge about the Tri-City area and Pasco, and Pasco in particular. So, we’re going to get started here, Jim, on this interview. And some of the basic questions we want to ask is in connection with the Tri-City area. Jim, when did you come to the Tri-City area? James Pruitt: I came to the Tri-City area in 1948. I got here on June 20th, on my wife’s birthday. Skinner: Well, James, did you come alone when you came to the Tri-Cities or Pasco or Hanford? Pruitt: That was the only—well, another guy, a friend of mine from Los Angeles, Bill Mathias. Skinner: Bill Mathias? Pruitt: And I came up with me on the bus. Skinner: Okay, okay. Jim, let me ask another question. Approximately, how old were you when you came to this area? Pruitt: I were 22 years old. Skinner: 22 years old, okay. Jim, when you came to the Tri-Cities, was there a particular city that you lived in, since now we have Pasco, Kennewick and Richland? Was there any one of those particular communities that you first— Pruitt: I first lived in Richland in the barracks. Because when I got here, it was on Saturday. I went to the union hall. I worked labor. And I had a meeting with the business agent. So they dispatched me out for work Monday morning. I went to work out in Richland on the housing project up there. Skinner: Jim, what was the name of the housing project that you went to work? Do you remember? In Richland? Pruitt: It was—in Richland, it was Militant Sound, was the construction company that I worked for. Skinner: The contractor that you worked for? Pruitt: I worked for them. Skinner: Okay. Pruitt: Militant Sounds Project in Richland on the Bypass highway. Skinner: Okay. Jim, let me back up a little bit. When you came to the Tri-Cities and, say, Pasco, or Richland barracks, where did you come from when you came here? Pruitt: I came from Los Angeles. Skinner: Los Angeles? Pruitt: Los Angeles, California. Skinner: Okay. Jim, you’re native to what state? Pruitt: Mississippi. Skinner: Mississippi, okay. Pruitt: Mississippi. Skinner: Okay. Let me ask you this next question, Jim. How did you hear about Hanford? Or when did you hear about Hanford? What did you hear about Hanford that— Pruitt: Well, a friend of mine, in fact, it was my sister’s boyfriend, Emmett Hoy, came up here. And he was working out there for Militant Sound for the project where I went to work. I was working in Los Angeles, and he asked me if I wanted to make some money, to come up to Richland, Washington. So I decided to come up here and I stayed up here for six months. The dust and the tumbleweeds were so bad, I left and went back to Los Angeles and stayed three months. And I came back. And I’ve been here ever since. Skinner: Okay. Jim, let’s talk about the social environment in the Tri-City area, you know, again, Pasco, Kennewick, and Richland, for the African American at that time, 1948. What was the relationship between the African American and the white community or the majority community at that time? Pruitt: Bad. Skinner: Give me a— Pruitt: Very, very prejudiced. Very racist. I was surprised when I came here to find a place that I had left a few years back from Mississippi and came here and found the same thing that I found in Mississippi. Skinner: So we—again, we’re talking about we just had blatant and overt racism and discrimination towards the African American community. Pruitt: Yes. Skinner: Was it, again, was that exhibited as not only—was it on the job? Pruitt: It was on the job, it was in housing, it was in foods, restaurants, it was in the bars, in the lounges, and wherever you went, there was a sign—[LAUGHTER] If it wasn’t a sign, it was, no, we don’t serve you in here. We don’t serve your kind. We couldn’t eat. I remember 1950, Hazel Scott suing the bus station. Skinner: Mm-hmm, when you say the bus station, was this— Pruitt: Greyhound bus station. Skinner: Greyhound bus station? Pruitt: Greyhound bus station, because she was going to Richland to perform. And that was Adam Clayton Powell’s wife. She was an entertainer. She went to the bar to get some food. They were riding the Greyhound bus, she and her secretary. They told her they didn’t serve black people in there. So she went back and sat down and her secretary was white, and she goes to the bar, and they gave her the whole setup, and the whole courtesy and everything. And she said, you know, I don’t want to eat. They said, why? She said, because you refused my boss. Mrs. Scott is my boss. And they went over and asked Mrs. Scott to eat, and they apologized to her for what they had done. And she says, no, why should I eat now that I’m good for $50,000. So she sued the bus station. From 1950 to this day, the bus station has not been anything progressive, nothing. Skinner: Okay, okay. Jim, let me speak on—or say on the economics, in terms of comparable pay at that time, we’ll say, for the white community. Doing the same work that—a black was doing the same work that the whites were doing, was it the same pay involved, or was it lesser pay? Pruitt: No, it was the same pay, because it was union. The guys that worked in the union, it was same pay. But they tried to see that the white guys got the better jobs, the higher-paying jobs, like foreman, supervisors, and whatever. Skinner: Okay, Jim, also on that note, we’re speaking on the—we spoke about some of the accommodations in restaurants and other public facilities. Let me ask you this question. In 1948, we had some groups that was formed in the black community. Could you give me any information on some groups that were formed? Was it the human relations committee that was formed around those times? Pruitt: The most that I can remember started in 1949, like the East Pasco Improvement Association. That was started in 1949. Out of that, came the Tri-Cities Human Rights Commission. Mrs. Merricks and Mr. Merricks and other people, Shirley Shepard and her husband, Mr. Shepard. Skinner: Also on that committee, did you say that was Heidlebaugh? Pruitt: Yeah. Skinner: Heidlebaugh was on that? Pruitt: George Heidlebaugh. Skinner: Okay, and we had some other members. Pruitt: Luzell Johnson. Skinner: Luzell Johnson, Iola James. Pruitt: Iola James, Ray Henry. Joe Bush. Gilbert Owens. We had, I think—who was Mr.—Miner. Charlie Miner. He was one of the guys on that. Skinner: Jim, you were also saying that you went to work in ’48, and you were working on the housing project on the Bypass highway in Richland. At that time, Jim, I know that there were African Americans working on the Hanford Project. Could you tell me if there was a large number of African Americans, a small number of African Americans, that was employed on that Department of Energy site, or the Atomic Energy Commission, or—were there many African Americans employed on that? Pruitt: Yes, there was quite a few African Americans. I can’t give you a round figure of what it was, but there was quite a few African Americans. Skinner: Can you recall some of the job description, the titles of some of the African Americans that did work on the Project? Were they laborers? Pruitt: Laborer, cement finisher and painter. And a truck driver every now and then. They’re riding this truck and it wasn’t—they’d haul the honey wagon. That was the only thing that they could get. They couldn’t get no higher than that. Skinner: So the jobs were limited— Pruitt: Were limited. Skinner: --to menial task jobs and also back-breaking jobs as far as laborers and stuff like that. Pruitt: That’s right. Skinner: And very little chance for advancement. Pruitt: Yup, that’s right. There was no supervisors or foremans or none of that on that job. Camera man: We need to change the tape. [VIDEO CUTS] Skinner: So, Jim, let me—we were just talking about employment. And obviously we see that there was a disparity in employment, and also there was—the African Americans were limited in being able to elevate themselves above just a certain level. Let me ask a question on the African American women. If they were employed, what type of employment, most generally, were the African American women? Pruitt: Dishwashers, a few cooks (not many), bed makers, that kind of thing. Skinner: So it would be an African American woman at that time, again, 1948, was more domestic? Pruitt: House-making, yeah, housekeeping, more or less. Skinner: Okay. Jim, let’s go on to social entertainment for African Americans, say, ’48, and let’s work down, work this way. What type of entertainment as far as if it’s night clubs, eating establishments, that black businessmen/businesswomen in the community—what was the social life like at that time for blacks? Pruitt: Ho, ho, ho, ho. Well, they had one club to go to at that time. That was out on Lewis Street. What is the name of the club? I have to think. I forgot it already. But there was only one club at that time. And I think 1950 was when Mr. Moore, last of ’49, first of ’50, he had a club down there on 1st and Lewis Street. The M&M was a place where you could go and eat. It was next door there. Skinner: When you say the M&M, [LAUGHTER] I know that’s initials for something. Do you know what the M&M stood for, as far as the restaurant or that eating establishment? Pruitt: I don’t know what. That was the name of it. The M&M. I don’t know what—[LAUGHTER] But I was trying to think of Mr. Moore’s night spot he had there. God, I can’t think. Leonard Moore: Poulet Palace. Pruitt: Poulet Palace is what it was, right. Yeah, that was the swinging place in town, was the Poulet Palace. But the other place across the street over there, that was where most of the people hung out at one time when I first came in 1948. It was the only place that I know that black people could go. I have to come back to that name, because I can’t think of it right now. Skinner: Okay, we got time, we can come back to it, Jim. Also, again, as far as black businesses, and we use the term entrepreneur here today, right or wrongly, but black businesses, were they limited at that time? Pruitt: Oh, yes. Yes. Mrs. Iola James had a trailer court. That was her business. Mr. and Mrs. Haney had a trailer court. And eventually they had a pool hall and stuff there. It was about—you know, eventually as the years went by. And they built a tavern over there, Norse’s Tavern. And Ms. Iola James had a restaurant in there. That was kind of entertainment and that was a black business. Skinner: Okay. What was that—you said Norse’s Tavern and you said Mrs. James had a restaurant in there. Where was that located? What was the location of that? Pruitt: On Oregon and—was that—hmm. What was that street? Moore: It was south of Lewis Street. It was kind of south of Lewis Street. Pruitt: Yeah, it was— Skinner: Columbia? Hagerman? Marvin? Pruitt: I think it was Hagerman. Skinner: It was Hagerman? Pruitt: Yeah. Skinner: Okay, okay. Mrs. James—you mentioned Mrs. James, and she had a trailer park business. Where was that located? Pruitt: 820 South Oregon. Right in the middle of where Mr. Moore’s junkyard is today. [LAUGHTER] Pruitt: That’s where my kids was born, right in the middle of the junkyard. [LAUGHTER] Skinner: Okay. And I know that there were other businesses, and as far as trailer park owners. Pruitt: Aretha and Bob—Robert Dillon had a trailer court. Skinner: Okay, what was the names again? Pruitt: Bob—Robert Dillon and his wife, Mrs. Dillon. Skinner: Right? Pruitt: Aretha. Skinner: I want to make sure we get the-- [camera man]: Try not to hide your mouth with that, with your glasses. [VIDEO CUTS] Skinner: Okay. Also, Jim, on some of the black businesses, I know it appeared to be a number of blacks at that time, because housing was limited and substandard at most, but at that time, most of the living was in trailer parks for African Americans in Pasco, east Pasco if you want to section it off, and there was a number of trailer parks. I don’t remember the names of the individuals besides Mrs. James and Dillon. I understand that Mr. Ely had a trailer park. Ed Ely’s father. There was a Bud Walker had a little trailer park. Pruitt: Yeah, he had a little trailer park there. Eventually, there was Dew Drop Inn. I almost forgot that. JD Evans had the Dew Drop Inn. That was a little hole-in-the-wall. We had that. It was a black business. Skinner: Okay. Were there any other businesses that as you recall and as we’re going over this, black businessmen or women, as limited as it was as that time? Pruitt: No, that’s about—that was it. You couldn’t live no place else in town but east Pasco. That was the limit of black businesses there and that was the—Ms. James, Iola James, and JD’s place was it. And then years after that, I guess, well, in 1955, Ed Jackson opened up the place. It was Jack’s Bar and Grill. That was the really beginning the hangout of most black people was this restaurant, this bar. Skinner: Jim, let me go on and just speak in terms of the black community and the black churches where the blacks’ worship area. At that time—and I’m speaking, again, from the time ’48 and early years—where were the paces of worship for African American men and women and children in the area? Or was it also very limited at that time? Pruitt: Yeah, it was. You know, they had two churches at that time. It was Morning Star Baptist Church and the Church of God and Christ was the only two churches. And Saint James was built in 1950, the Methodist church, CME church. And from the expansion came New Hope Baptist Church now, and then Greater Faith. And I understand there’s a Seventh Day Adventist in—and then there was another, Holiest Church. Reverend Vaughn, the two churches split and that was two church, one of them was the Holiest Church and the other was the Church of God and Christ, I guess, the way it split. Skinner: James, let me again ask the question. We know the race relationship at the time was bad at worst. Jim, when did you see any changes on the horizon in the black community in the Tri-Cities? When did we start seeing some substantial changes, social change, in the area? Pruitt: After 1964. Skinner: And that’s dealing with—we’ll say 1964, 1964 Civil Rights Act and the Affirmative Action. Pruitt: Yes, that’s right. Skinner: And that was some of the most significant changes was occurring at that time for the blacks and the black community. Pruitt: Yes, because we still could not go to Kennewick and any place, enter the clubs at night and stuff like that. Skinner: Okay. Jim, tell me a little bit about Kennewick at that time as far as blacks being able to freely move in the City of Kennewick. It sounds there was no freedom to move in Kennewick. Pruitt: There was no freedom to move in Kennewick. There was only one grocery store in the Tri-Cities at that time stayed open after midnight. It was Tri-City Foods. And if you go across the river to that store, the police were sitting out there somewhere. If you went anywhere like you was going downtown, they would stop you and tell you you was on the wrong side of the river. And you had to come back on this side. You could go to the movies, but that was it. When you get out of the movies, you come on back across the river. Skinner: It was just that pervasive? Pruitt: Yes, it was. No eating, no messing around in Kennewick, period. Skinner: Okay. Jim was there—you know, again, we’re talking about that, you know—we’ve seen how things was blatant and pervasive. Did the African American men and women, when they did, we’ll say, cohabitate or comingle with the white community, were they subject to derogatory treatment of any kind? Were they treated with an even hand? Pruitt: No, they weren’t treated with an evil hand. But you always stood back. You was never their friend. A lot of times, as long as you was on a job with the guys, they’d laugh and talk and treat you like you was a part of them. But then when they get off and you meet them on the street in Kennewick with his wife and kids, he acted like he didn’t know you. He wouldn’t speak to you. Sure. It was a lot of that, man. It’s like I said, I didn’t know that this place would be like that when I came here. That you couldn’t walk into a restaurant and sit down and eat. You could not do it in Kennewick. Skinner: Okay, Jim, let’s talk about Jim—James a little bit more. James, I know that you’ve been involved in any number of activities, organizations, as I said earlier, being a human rights, civil rights, community relations, working with the youth. Jim, tell us a little bit about some of yourself and some of the miles that you’ve walked as far as some of your job descriptions over the years, being involved in the East Pasco Improvement Association and a number of other groups. Tell us a little bit about yourself and why you were involved. Obviously, you cared, so that’s why you were involved. I can remember— [VIDEO CUTS] [man off-camera]: Okay. Skinner: Again, Jim—James, as I was saying, tell us a little bit about yourself. Again, because I know myself, as a younger—as a kid—I know you was involved in youth baseball, you were involved in officiating, as far as umpire, you were involved with the community relations between the City of Pasco police and the community, involved in Affirmative Action in a number of areas—Jim, tell us a bit about yourself and when you first got involved. Pruitt: Well, I’ll tell ya, when I first came to Tri-Cities, I went out on a job, I never, never heard my name called Jim until I came here to the State of Washington. Everybody called me James; nobody in my family knew anything about Jim. My older brother was named Jimmy, and they called him Jim. But for James, I thought it was really odd. I’d tell people what my name is, and they’d say, well, we call you Jim. And I said, no, that’s my brother’s name. They didn’t understand that, I guess. I just got tired of trying to tell people that my name was James and not Jimmy. So this one white lady told me that my momma was crazy for naming my brother Jimmy and naming me Jim. And I told her if she said that again, I would slap her. [LAUGHTER] But I got involved, because when I was a kid growing up in Mississippi, there was no place for us to work in city council, anything that would help us to make any kind of progress in life. When I came to Los Angeles, I would go into the city council meetings when I got a chance. My brother-in-law would take me in. I wanted to see what was going on. So I said, if I ever got to a place where I could work and do something, I would. And when I came to Pasco, it was a small town. So I begin to see what was going on after I seen all the racism here. So that’s when I begin to do that. I begin to look out and see what was going on. That’s when put forth an effort to do something about this kind of thing. And marching and demonstrations that we put on and stuff like that, I was a leader in that, in the civil rights thing. I begin the Scouts, I believe it was in 1954. I’m the first black Boy Scout master in the Tri-City area to belong to the Blue Mountain Council. I worked with the young people. Out of the 22 kids I had, I lost two of them. The rest of them has progressed very good in life. It makes me feel very good about that. Working with the youth, Youth Council, and doing something to try to get them to understand where we had to go. Because the place was—I mean, it was bad. It was segregated. The kids couldn’t go in the swimming pool. We couldn’t go in the Memorial swimming pool and go in. They filled up a swimming pool out at the navy base out there to keep black folks from swimming in it. Those were the things that I seen that I worked on-- Skinner: Okay. So, Jim, you mentioned in 1948 that in the African American community there was a group that was formed to promote social change. What was the name of that organization? 1948, was it the—it wasn’t the East Pasco Improvement Association, was it? Or what was it? Pruitt: The East Pasco Improvement Association was 1949. Skinner: It was 1949. Pruitt: 1949 was when that began. I just gave you some of the names of that. Napolea Wilson, Shirley Shepard, Mr. Shepard, Luzell Johnson, Ray Henry, Mrs. James, Mrs. Barton, Gilbert Owens. There was many people that seen that this needed to take place. These were the organizers. Mrs. Merricks and her husband organized the Tri-City commission. Skinner: Human Relations Committee? Pruitt: Yeah. Skinner: Those two organizations, Jim, they were focusing on—when you say improvement, it is basically improving social conditions and economic conditions in the African American community. What were some of the projects or efforts that initially started that? Was it substandard housing, no housing, streets, water—what--? Pruitt: Substandard housing, streets, street lights, the dusty streets that we were having and these things, for better homes and for better jobs. They worked to get me the job for the city in 1960. I’m the first black man that worked for the City of Pasco. Skinner: Okay, Jim, I know that there was, again, I can say there’s a number of organizations that you’ve been involved with on the civil rights area, the human rights area. Jim, if I can recall that you were also City of Pasco, and I believe it was on police and community relations? Pruitt: Police and Community Relations department. Skinner: Okay, how did you get tied into that— Pruitt: [LAUGHTER] Skinner: --we’ll say, human relations program? Pruitt: Since I was working in the black movement, and I led quite a few demonstrations and marches on the streets in Pasco and in Kennewick and also Richland, they decided to grease the squeaking wheel. That’s why I got the job. I put in the application for it and everything, but there was over 200 applications. People had doctor’s degrees that they didn’t get it. What happened, in 1969—if you remember, ’68, they had a little riot over in Kurtzman Park. In 1969, they had the riot in front of the court house in the park there. And there was over 400 that was out in the park. And police went down and they had four warrants. They went down and arrested—got the four young men they was after for drugs. They—well, it wasn’t they, it was Lieutenant Butnam, we’ll just call his name out. He hit a couple of girls with his night stick, and he drew the crowd. And the kids came back the next day with rocks, rifles, shot guns—there was over 400 people out in that park, young people. There was only three white people in that park. Lee Brush— Skinner: A police officer? Pruitt: Yes, Sergeant Lee Brush. And Sam Hunt was one of the teachers, and Mr.—oh, he run Columbia Light Products down there on May Street. I can’t call his name right now. But anyway, I’ll get back to that. But anyway, those kids was out there fixing to get destroyed, because they’d come to destroy the police department. They’d torn over police cars and stuff up there in the street; they’d burned down the trees in front of the court house. And they had Reverend Allen—yeah, Reverend Allen, he didn’t come, but Reverend Vaughns, Wayne Jackson, Annette Jackson and myself. And everybody spoke to those young people. I got on the wishing well and I cried like a baby. Because I seen what was going to happen. If those kids had pulled out those guns out there and start shooting at them police, they were going to destroy them. And these was all white kids. And I got on the wishing well, and I promised them, if they would just think about it, because they were going to get destroyed—and go back home and think about it. I said, as long as there is blood in this body, I would never let this happen in this town again. I promised them that. And the kids dispersed. I went down and put in my application after that. They started sending out applications, and I went in and put in my application. That’s how I got that job. Skinner: Okay, okay. Jim, you had also mentioned that you organized a number of marches in the Tri-Cities area of Pasco, Kennewick and Richland. Can you tell us something about the first march that you were involved in in this area here and the reason why you were marching? Pruitt: Yes. For the same reason we’d been fighting all the time. For better housing, for better streets, for better lights and for better jobs, for better schools. Whittier School over there had rats and roaches and they had no place to put the food. The food was on the floor out there with roaches and everything else crawling trough it. The white people moved all their kids out of Whittier. There was four white kids going to Whittier School over there. Those were the things we demonstrated. We had no black policemen, we had no black lawyers in this town. We had nothing. And why not? Why not recruit some of these people? Because they were unwelcome. And that’s why I—we did that. Mozetta Orange was one of the young people that I worked with very rapidly. East Side Market was right in the black community. They wouldn’t hire a black person. Gene and Gerald would not hire a black person in their store. Before they would hire a black person in that store, they sold the store. And we got Roland Andrews the job there. And then Reverend Wilkins, he went to work there as a clerk. Those were the kind of things that we done. We had Slip’s Firestone down there in the black community, wouldn’t hire no black people. Finally, when his place went up for something down there, then we got the—we hired the black man. I guess he retired a couple of years ago. Skinner: Okay, I’m trying to think of the gentleman’s name here I believe that was working out at Slip’s Firestone. But I can’t think of it. [LAUGHTER] Pruitt: I can’t, either. It was Wild Bill. Mr. Wild Bill, everybody know his nephew. But I also, I worked—the first 18-wheeler driver was Henderson. Skinner: It was Henderson? Pruitt: Yes. Not Clyde, but— Skinner: Was it Gilbert? Gibson? Pruitt: Yeah, Gibson Henderson. Gibson Henderson, I got him a job out at that Chevron station. Way out there, driving an 18-wheeler. Avery Johnson. Not Avery—Tony—not Tony, but the other Avery. Skinner: Jim Avery, we call him Jeb, there’s a Henry, there’s a Larry. Pruitt: I guess it was Tony, Tony and-- Skinner: And he had a brother named Danny. Pruitt: No, Tony. Tony was the one. I got a job for PI. I talked to PI down there about them driving. I got him a job down there. Oh, it’s another young man, he killed his wife up in Spokane. He was a secretary when I was there with the police department. What was that boy’s name? Ah, god. It’s right on the end of my tongue, and I can’t call it. But he was driving. They were driving 18-wheelers. Those were the kind of things that I were working for. You know, to get these positions. That’s why we had the demonstrations. In Kennewick, we demonstrated over there because nobody could go to Kennewick. The first black man who had a house over there in 1961, he left and came over to Mr. Walker’s. It was Mr. Walker’s daughter’s husband. Mr. Walker’s daughter had the house over there. And she and her husband came over to visit him in Pasco; when they got back the house was burned down. Skinner: This was in 1961? Pruitt: 1961 in Kennewick. Yes. These was why we was demonstrating. Herb Jones and his family moved to Kennewick in 1965. They cut the tires on his car, broke the glass out of a brand new Ford he just had bought. These was the things we were marching for. Why not? Why not live in Kennewick, anywhere, if you wanted. We were citizens— Skinner: And this is America, you know what. Pruitt: And this is America. I look at it today, and people are saying we’re together. For over 400 years, we haven’t been together. And now they want to say, we are together. But we are not yet there. Skinner: James—and obviously the story that you told about being called James, which is your given name, opposed to Jim. Is there a story behind that right there? Is there—in the past, that the white community referred to African American men outside of their given name? Jimmy, if their name was James, and that was a negative connotation? Pruitt: Yes. And “boy.” They wanted to call you “boy,” “say, boy.” I didn’t allow nobody to call me “boy.” Because my name is James, and I feel like this, like I tell guys, I say, whatever—whoever you meet, and they give you their name, they tell you what my name is, that’s what they feel comfortable with you calling them. And that’s what they try to do. But yeah, they’d call you Bob for Robert, if your name was Robert. They wouldn’t call you by your full name. Skinner: Your given name. Pruitt: No, your given name, they had to put something else to it. Skinner: So this was out of, obviously this was— Pruitt: Lazy. Skinner: Is it lazy or out of respect, not having respect for the African American? Pruitt: That’s right, didn’t have no respect for them at all. None. None, and I tell you what. Believe it or not, I hit a guy in the mouth for calling me a nigger. Right here in Pasco, I hit him just like God had forgot him. And I wouldn’t’ve ever thought that that would happen. And they would do that as long as they felt like they could get away with it. And they’d call you “boy” as long as they felt like they could get away with it. Skinner: Oh, so in other words, you’re saying as long as you allowed it to occur, it would continue to occur. Pruitt: They would play with you out at Hanford out there. The man would come—the foreman sometime would come up and he would kick you with his knee. I’ve seen guys laugh and walk on off on me. Don’t take your feet off the ground towards me. Never. But they’d do that. And then finally a few of let them keep bumping you with your knee and then soon they start absolutely kicking. Oh, yes. Skinner: So it was just a general disregard for African Americans, if you allowed it to happen. Pruitt: Yes. [VIDEO CUTS] Skinner: Jim, let us revisit some of the, again, some of the firsts that you had mentioned now that—some of the firsts for blacks in the Tri-Cities area. Whether it was jobs, whether it was patronizing white businesses, night clubs and not have that Jim Crow stigmatism. Can you share for us some of the first things that you recognized as far as accomplishments or positions that blacks never had held before but now was holding, stores that blacks formerly couldn’t go in but now we could go in. Could you give me some of the firsts on that, Jim? Pruitt: Yeah, that’s what we were talking about a little while ago, when black people couldn’t go into the restaurants, job situation, they couldn’t work in the stores—the clothing stores or food stores or none of those places. I think, it was about 19—it was in the early ‘60s, before we really seen any changes to where people—and like I said, one of the things, east Pasco was a big grocery store there. We made them guys rich, and they wouldn’t hire a black person in the black community. Skinner: And you mentioned the name of that store was Gene and Jules? Pruitt: Gene and Gerald. Skinner: James, as I can recall, the Gene and the Jules, their last name were Wright? If I’m not mistaken, their last name was Wright? Pruitt: Gene Wright and Jules—I don’t know what Jules’ last name was. Moore: Was it Meyers? Pruitt: Might have been Meyers. Skinner: They also had not only the Gene and Jules over in east Pasco, but they also had a Gene and Jules on the west side of town. Pruitt: They sold Gene and Jules over there and built this one over here because they did not want to hire no black person. They wouldn’t hire no black person. Skinner: Okay, and on that relocation of the Gene and Jules from east Pasco to west Pasco, where was the Gene and Jules Store that they built to avoid hiring blacks, where was that located? Was that located on Court and Chase? Pruitt: Mm, that was on Court— Skinner: Which is, it’s 20th now, but it used to be Chase. Pruitt: That’s right. Chase. Skinner: Used to be Chase. Was it located around that area? Pruitt: Mm-hmm, yeah. Skinner: Jim, you also said it, the City of Pasco, that you were the first black that was employed by the City of Pasco? Pruitt: Yes. Skinner: What year was that? Pruitt: 1960. I was employed through East Pasco Improvement Association. They fought the city. Shirley Shepard and Mrs. Heidlebaugh, Mr. Heidlebaugh, Mrs. Merricks and all of those people, Kenny Moore, he was a councilman at that time—city councilman. And they called him the East Pasco Nigger Council. Skinner: Mm-hmm, tell us some more. Who was the mayor at that time, can you recall? Pruitt: Let’s see, who was the mayor? Ted—what was old Ted’s name? Oh, god. I can’t call the last name. But Ted was the mayor there in 1960. He was the mayor. He was a real racist. Real prejudiced. Skinner: Jim, you also said that you were the first black Boy Scout troupe leader in the Tri-City area, Pasco area or whatever. And you mentioned you had 22 scouts at that time. What else were you first in, Jim, in the Tri-Cities? Pruitt: I was the first black man to run a service station. 76 Union Station down on 4th Avenue at the Dodge place. I worked for Mr. Don Hammer. He went in, he was talking to his buddy in there, and he said, I got a man here needs a job. Because my son was going to be born in February and we couldn’t work on the dam because there was too much ice, and I needed the job. He was from Louisiana, and he said, man, black guys worked the station there all the time. He said, I’ll give you a job. He gave me a job working for him and I would run the station at night. There was people come to the station to get gas and I’d go out to serve them, and they’d ask me for Mr. Hammer or Bob. They was out to lunch or if they was going some place, I’d say, well, they’re not in right now. Can I help you? No. So one day—one evening—one night I was there, and this lady came in and I went out to fill her tank, because I know she come by to get it full. And she asked me where was the boss? And I say, he’s gone home. He might’ve not—he wasn’t going home that night, but he went and got him a sandwich and he said he was going to leave and he was going home. So I said, he may be going home, I don’t know. Well, where’s Robert? And I said he may be going home. I’m the only one here. I said, can I help you? No. So about that time, he went back up in the driveway. He got out and he says, what’s wrong? I said, I don’t know, that lady want to see you. So he goes over to her and he says, ma’am, can I help you? She says, yes, sir, she says, fill ‘er up. He said, James work here. He said, why couldn’t you fill her car up with gas? I said, I asked her what does she want and she asked for you. She didn’t tell me she wanted no gas. And he said, why didn’t you tell him? I didn’t want him putting gas in my car. He said, well, I tell you what, ma’am. He works here. And if he can’t put gas in your car, then we don’t need your trade. Skinner: So this female customer, because you were an African American refused to do business with you at a station that she does business with on a day-to-day basis. Pruitt: Yes. She would not let me fill that car up that day. So he said, if he can’t fill it up, I won’t fill it up. So she said, fill it up. And he went on the inside. So she asked me if I knew where she could get six black chickens. I said, no, I don’t. And I called Don and asked him. I said, Don. The lady ask me if you know where she could get six black chickens. He’s very squirrelly anyway. He says, well, let me see, but I don’t know, but if there’s any around I could sure get them for you. He say, why? Why you want six black chickens? She said, I want them for pall bearers. My cock is dead. [LAUGHTER] Those were the kind of things that that you get from them kind of people. A lot of people come in didn’t want me to serve them. Yes. Skinner: And is—that’s interesting and I know it was true, Jim, but it’s really pathetic that people were that shallow and that small to not want to give individuals the same extension of the hand that they would extend to other people. It’s really sad that we have individuals in this world this way that feel that they’re out here by themselves. Jim, is there any other firsts? Pruitt: Yes, when I was working for the city department, Buck Whistler was the supervisor there. He was so racist, he’d tell me one thing that the foreman—Herb Carr was the foreman—he would give me a job to do, and Buck would come on after he’d leave and tell me something else to do and then go tell him that I wasn’t doing what he told me to do, I was doing this. Buck Whistler was the supervisor. He didn’t want me on the job. Skinner: So he was doing everything he could to undermine you and get you run off. Pruitt: Until the last minute. He did it too many times. He did that one day, and Herb come to the shop. I was threading some pipe, I was cutting some water joints and threading them. And he says, why weren’t you threading them joints? I said, Buck told me to go out there and cut weeds and leave that alone. He said, Buck says you wasn’t doing what I told you to do. I said, I was there threading pipes, man. These two-foot pipes, I had to thread them at each end. I said, I was cutting pipe and threading them. He told me to go out there in the yard and cut them weeds out. He say, he did? I say, yeah, that’s what he done. So Buck came down, and I was so mad, I couldn’t wait. When he come down, I run at him. I was going to kick him up one side and down the other. So he took off. Skinner: So, again, well, then it seems to me that you were being set up. Pruitt: Yes, yes, but I had got tired of that. Skinner: Being set up, as far as African American men or women, it didn’t seem like it was— Pruitt: The thing was, John, we were trying to get unionized. He did not want a union, the city employees. So he laid three of us off in September. In 1961. It was two white boys and myself, Robert Noonan. Because we was organizing a union. Even though we did get it, oh yes, we got it. Skinner: So Jim you trying to tell me you was a union organizer also? Pruitt: [LAUGHTER] Yeah. There’s a lot of things, John, that I tried, you know? Because I always never had a chance when I were growing up. And I always wanted to do something to try to help young people. I’m still trying to do the same thing today. I live in Alaska, but I’m still doing it. [VIDEO CUTS] Skinner: Jim, let me also ask you about—you were also employed for the City of Pasco and you were in the capacity of a community relations officer between the Pasco Police Department— Pruitt: As a liaison. Skinner: A liaison—and the African American community. Could you tell me some parts of that job description? You’ve already shared with us on some, as far as the what they called riots or demonstration, Kurtzman Park, and also volunteer across for the Franklin County Courthouse. And you were there mediating that crowd. It sounds to me that you were able, was effective in your mediation to quell the crowd and you promised that you, as far as your involvement—tell us about that involvement with that liaison position. Pruitt: When I went to the police department, I went there with this in mind, to bring about a better relationship between the police department and the people in the city of Pasco. Not only in the African community, but also in the white community. That was my goal. I had ballgames set up between the people and the police department, softball team. And we also had a pigs-and-the-freaks game with the police to bring about better relationship with the police department. The police had been pretty rough on black people in Pasco. That was one of the things—I had an office set up there in the Matrix Building. And when people would be involved with the police in any way, form, they’d come to me, and I would investigate it. Police would be harassing certain people, oh yeah. That was quite a bit. That was my thing, to investigate it and find out and see what was happening and what was going on. I also got the guns out of the police department—I mean out of the cars, they were sitting up in the—they had them in the trunk. Because that’s intimidation. Intimidation to people when they see, and knowing that you got something to kill them with. [VIDEO CUTS] Skinner: Jim, following up a little bit more on that community relations job, liaison job you had for the City of Pasco, James, the question I want to ask of you now, what kind of cooperation did you get from the City of Pasco and Pasco Police Department? Were they committed of trying to establish better community relationship, or was it lip service? Pruitt: No, they did. They worked very diligent with me. The city manager and the chief of police. You had a few guys in there that regretted me. There was a joke told one evening and I cussed them out. [LAUGHTER] Skinner: Jim, did you say that, at that time was the city manager, did you mention Marv Wenniger? Pruitt: Yes. Skinner: Was the city manager? Pruitt: City manager. Skinner: And the mayor was? Pruitt: The mayor was Ed Hendler. Skinner: Ed Hendler at that time? Pruitt: Ed Hendler was the mayor at that time. Yeah, they’d work with me, and one thing the chief set up when we went in, he told the police that my job was not to investigate no cases for the police department. And he told me these words, he said, if any policeman come to you and ask you any questions about anybody out there that he should be working on investigating, I want to know about it. You see? And he will pay for it. And any time that a person would come to me with some type of action between them and the police, and I investigated it, if there were some wrongdoings in there, that policeman was reprimanded. There was some police reprimanded. I’d write them up. I’d write them up, and I would give one of the write-ups to the chief and one to the city manager. There were some police left the department because of that. Skinner: So they were committed to making the changes. And when you did the investigation and on your findings that there was some activities that was inappropriate, they dealt with it effectively. Pruitt: Yes. And Al Tebaldi thanked me many times for opening doors to him that has not been opened to the police chief by inviting him into east Pasco and to different organizations and into the night spots and getting to know people and setting up the ballgames and stuff where we could have some interaction with each other. That was good. He was for all of that. Skinner: And you say that at this time the chief of police of the Pasco Police was Al Tebaldi? Pruitt: Al Tebaldi. Yes. And he worked with me on that very, very well. I appreciated that. Skinner: Jim, again, you’re a person that’s multi-faceted, like I say, and involved in an incredible number of different things in the community. You also mentioned that you were involved, not only with organizing, but you also were involved with the Ironworkers and apprenticeship programs. In your involvement with the apprenticeship program, I assume—or let me ask you, were you involved in minority recruitment? Raising that window for blacks to have opportunity in building and construction trades? Pruitt: Yes, that was a part of my job. Skinner: Tell me, Jim, some of the encounters that you had, some of your success rates of recruiting black young men and/or women into the program. Tell us something about that. Pruitt: Well, I’ll tell you, it’s very understandable that young people, young black men, didn’t know anything about the four crafts that black men could not participate in. It was electricians, the pipefitters, sheet metal and ironworkers. Those were four crafts that the judge recommended that no other person [UNKNOWN] could be hired except blacks for five years. We had to graduate 625 black men and women through these four locals. Skinner: Well, this was through Affirmative Action. Affirmative Action, was it? Pruitt: Yes, Affirmative Action. Skinner: Blacks, African American, were not involved in the building and construction crafts in those four crafts. Pruitt: No, that’s right. Skinner: The reasons why they were not involved, was it closed to the father-and-son type of— Pruitt: Yes. Skinner: Because I can recall myself, as I was graduating from high school, I had no knowledge of building and construction apprenticeship programs such as Electricians’ and stuff like that. So you saying that, by mandate, you had to recruit as well as graduate a number of African American men or women in a specific period of time. Pruitt: Both, yes. Both. Both, men and women. Skinner: Jim, you also said that recently you ran across some of the young men that you were involved in recruiting in the Ironworkers’ and it sounded like they were thanking you for reaching out and showing them the way. Jim, how does that make you feel as far as that accomplishment and being able to reach down, reach back and provide the direction? Pruitt: Well, it makes you feel very good, John, because these guys did not understand about these different crafts. And it makes a lot of difference when you are put out in a position and you’ve never been there before. And you’re out there with all the white guys, they’re going about their business, because their dad has sat around the dinner table and talked about these things. But my daddy wasn’t able to do that. So these young men’s fathers didn’t know anything about the Ironworkers’, the Electricians’, the Pipefitters’. So we had to have a counsel. I was—what’s it called, a counsel. I worked with these guys, I recruited them, and I went on the job to see how they would function, what they needed, what their weak places was, whether they needed help. They went to school five nights a week, two hours, to learn this trade. They had to do this. And if they didn’t, then they were thrown out and somebody else was recruited. Skinner: Jim, let me ask you this, in your area of being a counselor of apprenticeship programs, was the success rates where you thought they should be? Were they good? Were they low? Did we have a good completion rate of African Americans in the apprenticeship program? Pruitt: I’d have to say 87%. Skinner: That’s successfully completed the program? Pruitt: It was good. Charlene Bell was one of my ironworkers. Her brother, Alfred Bell, was one of them. And her little brother got killed up there. Skinner: John? Pruitt: John? Yes. There was Ron Howard coming under that, and Tony Troy. You know Tony? Faye’s son? Skinner: Yes, yes. Pruitt: He’s an ironworker now. He’s getting ready to retire. Some of the guys that I had worked with that I had to get in in the morning and call them if they didn’t go to work. Skinner: You had to jumpstart them, Jim? Pruitt: I had to jumpstart ‘em. I’d go and I always kept my little piece under my arm, because the guys were rough. And they’d be out all hours of the night and didn’t want to go to work the next morning. And they’d get up and go, I’ll shoot you if you come in here, I’ll do this, I’ll cut your head off. And I’d go in there, well, I’m going to shoot you back. I said, you going to go to work this morning. The man need you. If he hadn’t need you, he wouldn’t have hired you. You’re going to work. I’d make them go to work. Every day. And seeing that they go to school. Every night, I was at that school. I checked them out. Every night, brother, I was out there. If there was any problem, the teacher, he reported it. He reported it to me. And I would talk to these fellas. I went on the job to see how they were progressing. I talked to the foreman whom he worked with, these guys, the journeyman. I had some guys through 19 months were journeymen. So these are the kinds of things that we worked for. We had ladies that were ironworkers. Juanita was a good ironworker. She was just one here from Pasco. They was very good. They was very good. I met some guys last summer in the park, in the shop that’s over on 23rd up there, in June. They rushed me and was hugging me and going on. Please don’t do that, people be thinking we’re sisters. They were getting ready for retire, and they were thanking me for what I had done for them, to give them a chance in life and have something to retire. They got good retirements from these jobs. It make me feel very good, very good, I have helped somebody. Skinner: Good. Jim, you know, on opening some of these doors, and knocking some of these barriers down—it wasn’t done voluntarily, Jim. Certain action, whether it was civil disobedience at the time, because in the majority community, the majority community just wasn’t listening. Sitting down to the round table might have worked for certain groups, but in the black community, we have sat down to the round table any hundreds of thousands of times and we still did not get any effective change. What do you think are some of the causes that moved, for some of the social change, to break down the barriers, to get the apprenticeship program, we’re talking about college education, where we’ve always had African American men and women graduating and going to college, but through Affirmative Action, we started seeing more folks, blacks, getting involved in apprenticeship programs, going to college and graduating college. But what I’m saying is, it didn’t happen by accident; it happened because of individuals out there on the line and were calling for social change. Do you agree on that? Or not? Pruitt: Yes. I think a lot of us—our young people was misled. I worked in OM over there a lot with young people. Three years ago, I was in Walla Walla. I had breakfast over at the Black Angus. There was two young ladies walked up, they almost looked like twins, and grabbed me, I thought they were trying to get my money, so I started scuffling with them. And they said, Mr. Pruitt, you don’t know us? And I said, no, I don’t, I’m sorry. And they said, do you remember OM? And I said, yes, I do. And I looked— Moore: Operation Motivation? Pruitt: Yes, Operation Motivation. And she said, I want to thank you and Trooper Kennedy for helping us to turn our lives around. She says, I’m a doctor, and the other one was a teacher. Skinner: ‘Kay. Pruitt: And—I’m sorry. [emotional] But those kind of things make you feel good. [camera man]: We can stop it. [VIDEO CUTS] Pruitt: --and on a Saturday hit a little bit of blues. That’s about it. Sunday, all day, you would hear all gospel. And the sheriff would ride around the church, is everything all right, boy? See if everything all right. So you’d be ready to go to work Monday morning. As soon as Dr. King come along and said, let’s get up and do something. We’re going backward, not moving forward. What did they do? They started bombing the black churches and killing black folks, because they begin to move out. The ministers should tell our young people, whatever your talent is, use it. I’ve seen Milton Norwood’s little daughter blowing trumpet in the church up there. Now, she done went through four years of schooling to learn how to blow, and the minister telling her to blow for God. Don’t get out there in the streets and blow no horn. Now who going to pay her salary? BB King, I talked to him. He and I were 80 miles apart. I said, BB, supposing we had still been in Mississippi? He said, we’d be down there smelling behind them mules. But I’m able to do something for my kids and my grandkids. He’s got 29 grandkids. He got a club set up in Hollywood, he’s got one in Memphis, he just set up one in New York. To him, that’s a job. But to black folks, because the white folks said, if you sing the blues, you going to hell, we couldn’t swim on Sundays, we couldn’t play baseball on Sundays. A lot black folks wouldn’t cook on Sundays because they done told them it’s a sin. And we still living under that old tradition. And this is what I’m telling you young people: get out from under that. Don’t believe that kind of stuff, because all it is, they taking the Bible and keeping you on the slave. Get up. And whatever is the pleasure in your life and other people enjoy, do it. That’s what I do today. Whatever people in Georgia are doing. People call me on the phone and ask me sometime to sing a couple verses of a song in New York—that’s the truth—or Detroit or some place. I sing. Why? Because I may not have that chance again. I don’t care if it’s the blues. I sung the blues plowing the mule—I learned how to plow the mule singing the blues. And the blues ain’t nothing but—the preacher says the blues is singing for the devil. My little blind friend up there used to play at the Black Angus here. He was playing up there in Anchorage. He offered the church to play for them. They didn’t have a keyboard player, and he play in the club. That’s his living. You know they wouldn’t let him play in that church? Because he’s playing for the devil and you can’t play for the devil and to God. And then turn around saying, you got to earn your living by the sweat of your brow. If Satan ain’t sweating I don’t know what it is. I can’t understand why the ministers are still going through these things. It’s a shame and holding the young people back. This is one of the reasons, John, that we can’t get nowhere, is because they got the kids’ minds poisoned. They not teaching them nothing. And we have to teach them that they’re number one in their life and whatever is available to them that they want to do—go out and be a policeman, go out and be a lawyer, be a doctor, be a city councilman, be the mayor—whatever you want to be. But you don’t ever hear them say that. You don’t hear them say nothing about the people that have paved the way for us along the way. Reverend Allen has never contributed nothing to this community. Never. And he told me, Juneteenth day down there, he had a $4 million project in Portland. I said, Reverend Allen, what about here? You live here. Well, Reverend Allen say, it’s in Portland. He ain’t never contributed nothing. And people tell me, well, it’s because of the way his family is. I’m a man. Don’t let nobody tell you what you can and cannot do as long as you right. He’s the boss of the house. How his wife going to tell him he can’t be involved in nothing? He come to one council meeting. But they ain’t telling young people nothing. You see? I tell them, you number one in your life. Your heart is the church. Your body is your temple. Whatever you need, you look within yourself. The inner strength, the god within you is the one that give you direction. See, that house over there is a house of fellowship. That’s where people go and communicate and swap conversations with each other. But this is the house of God. This is the temple, is here, your body. And when they start telling young people this and whatever—use it. Whatever your talent is, use it. Love, you have to find it within yourself first. When you find that, you can go anywhere in the world and find it. I have no problem nowhere I go. Peace—people say, I’m going out here and find me some peace and happiness. It starts with you. Any change you want made in life, brother, you have to start with you. Because it’s not going to change if you don’t put forth an effort. And you can sit here and pray until doomsday. Until you get up and do what you’re supposed to do, you ain’t going to get nothing. See, and people is talking about, if you got the faith of a mustard seed, the Bible said, if you got as much faith as a mustard seed, cut into four parts, one little square, you can move mountains. Now, the preachers don’t explain that. You’ve heard that before, ain’t you? Skinner: Yes, I have. Pruitt: But now you know what he was talking about? You know what kind of faith he was talking about? You see these big machines they built, they move the mountains. See, that’s what he was talking about. If you got as much faith, you can build these kind of things. They blow a hole in the mountain and take them big Eucs and stuff and run it in and get it out. The way they tell you that, if you have enough faith you can stand and look and pray at that mountain so long it’ll move out of your way. If there’s something in your way that—no, you’ve got to be able to move it. You got to be able. Skinner: So, Jim, you’re saying that before the black community can help itself, help ourselves, we’ve got to get up and take some steps. Pruitt: That’s right. We got to find ourselves. We got to find ourselves, and that’s something we have not done. We’re still dependent on somebody else. And you all know, when you talk to people that are supposed to be Christians, they’ll tell you something that’s wild and is a whole lot different from what it is in the Book. It is. And the Book has been translated 15 times. It has been translated. And you look in the Bible, now they got pictures in the Bible. See how many black people in the Bible. See how many’s in there. And I’m very angry with our ministers. Not that I’m—but you try to tell them, and they all, you wrong. Where you get your philosophy from? But I tell y’all something, I had an experience in 1966. I was driving from here to Bellingham. I was working on Whidbey Island, I was building some barracks out on the navy base. I was driving along one evening when something called my name. I was singing, “kindly take this message to the other side.” Something called my name at the double bridges. And you ever go into Canada, when you get between—before you get to Mount Vernon, there’s two double bridges there. And just as I crossed that bridge, something called my name three times, I’m driving. Said, James, James, James. It said, live your life that others may see the life you live. Because your life may be the only Bible that they will ever read. And it scared me so bad, man, I didn’t know what to do. I put on my brakes and I was sweating like mad. And I don’t know what in the daylights said that. 1986, I was working up on Mount McKinley. I built bridges out there for Samson & Sons. We stayed out there at the camp. So in the evening, I’d usually get in my truck after I’d worked 12, 14 hours a day, sometime 18. And I’d go out there, the sun didn’t go down until 12, 12:30. I’d get in my truck and go out there, and sit out there and look at all the animals on the side of the mountain, the bears and the goats and the moose and everything, doing they thing out there. But I sat there one evening, something call my name the same way, man. And I mean it just shocked me again. I’m sitting there and it scared me. And I asked a question when it said that three times to me. I said, why me? It said, because you’re you. That time there was some little—there were some ducks crossing the road, had some little bitty baby ducks. And all them ducks was in a little hook following they mom. And one started off, and she turned around and pecked him. And he got back in. The Spirit said something to me. If that duck can train his duckies, looking at the bears—if the bear can train his little cubbies, if the goats can train their little lambs, the cows can train their calf, why can’t we, our people, our children? Why? You know those things that—it’s because—I don’t know. I don’t know why. But these kind of things—I don’t know why they come to me, but it did. And I think about it. And I talk to young people about these things. I still work, brother. I’m still going to the schools. I’m still going to young people’s organizations and talk to them. Skinner: Jim, you’ve always been active with the youth in the community. As I said earlier, as I was growing up, I know that you were involved in and organized baseball. And I know, James Junior and I were also playing ball together. And you’d take us to ball games—at that time, I believe it was the Tri-City Braves. Pruitt: I bought a $50 Cadillac from his Daddy. [LAUGHTER] And I went everywhere, to Portland, Seattle. [LAUGHTER] Moore: We’ve got another one down there, too. Pruitt: Do you? Moore: We’ve got another one. Pruitt: For $50? Moore: A Cadillac, yeah. Pruitt: I want it! [LAUGHTER] Skinner: Jim, again, you have a wealth of information about folks in the community, about the signs of the times, where we were, where we came from, and we measure it in different ways. Right now, Jim, I suspect, I guess you’re retired here, right now. Pruitt: Yes, I retired in ’89. Skinner: Jim, I know that you were—you’ve done a multitude of things. I know you’ve been a contractor— Pruitt: [LAUGHTER] Yes, yes. Skinner: And you’ve been a sports official. Pruitt: Yup. Skinner: And I guess when I interviewed you, you’re saying, I just had that intestinal fortitude to want to get up and want to do better for myself and see my people do better. Pruitt: Yeah, especially young people. I want young people to have the opportunities I didn’t have. I want them to have that. Skinner: Jim, in that same line is, where do we go from here? Do you think that African Americans acclimating more into the mainstream society, do we have a uphill battle from what you can see in the trends out here now? Pruitt: Yes, we still have an uphill battle. Because people is not yet grasped what is happening. They still, some of us still living back in the ‘20s and the ‘30s. You’ve got to leave that. If you don’t move with time, time will leave you standing still. We have a lot of people like that. They don’t believe in what—I mean, you look at the music today. You look at the gospel, contemporary. Young people—[COUGHING] excuse me—they don’t want to go back and sing the old songs that we sang. [singing] Lord, I wanna be ready. Lord, I’m getting ready. I’m going to meet my God. You see, when young people come to the world, black people, they start teaching you to die. You going. How to get to heaven. And this is my speech. How you going to heaven if you haven’t did nothing here? We have got to learn to live here first. And this is what we are not doing. They’re not teaching us how to live here together, John, they’re teaching us how to get to heaven. But what we going to do here first? And a lot of people here, you can talk to them about that, child, I know I’m on my way to heaven, I’m going. Look, this is your heaven and hell right here on earth, son. When you leave here, your spirit will be left, but your body’s going back to the dust. That spirit will be in the body of some other human, not yours. You’ve finished here on earth and when you are done—ain’t nobody been back to tell you how it is over there, is that old folks’ comment. So that’s why he said, don’t put off today for tomorrow for what you can do today. Because there is no tomorrow. It’s either today or yesterday. Skinner: Jim, you know, again, in a black community, uphill struggle from where we may have been 50 years ago to now, young people’s better access to education—quality education, maybe a little finer—I’m not going to say finer minds, but now they have some credentials because of their college education. Do you think that the young people and seeing more with a college education, are they going to be able to benefit and help blacks move vertically? Progressively vertical enough, vertical movement. Do you think because of more blacks are being educated that they’re going to be able to reach out and be more salvation because of their education? Pruitt: I hope so. I hope so. I hope they’re not selfish. But a lot of us are. And I hope—they should reach back. And that’s what I always try to do. If I get three steps up on the ladder, I like to have someone on the second behind me. See, as we step up the ladder, we should always be able to look back and bring somebody else along with us. And I hope—and that’s what I tell young people each day that I talk to them. Don’t forget where you came from. Don’t forget your sister, your brother, your African American. Don’t forget where you come from. Always try to help those that need help. I hope it brings about a change. Skinner: Jim, so you’re saying then, don’t forget from whence you came. Pruitt: That’s right. Skinner: And speaking of selfishness, the selfishness, you’re hoping that by having access to education, that we’ll be able to look at things conceptually and not keep starting back off at square one. That we can be able to move forward with the knowledge and progressively move up vertically. Pruitt: Right. And I think—what I was saying, if our ministries, too, in the community. Because they have the crowd, they have the majority of the people. They have a chance to help young people more than what they do instead of holding them back. But they tell them what you can and what you cannot do. That’s not right. And I think if we could get them to understand, they’re not helping the young people in the way they’re teaching them. They’re not teaching them how to live here on earth and how to get out and do things and help that person that needs help that’s a little bit less fortunate than they are. They ain’t teaching them that. You don’t ever hear that. All they talk about is what Paul done and what John done and all of these people back—that’s fine. But bring in some of these people. You never hear anything about Dr. Martin Luther King. You never hear them say anything about Randolph Philips. You never hear George Washington Carver, Booker T. Washington. You never hear them say anything about that. You never hear them say anything about Jackie Robinson; you never hear them say anything about Muhammad Ali. And look at most of the things that have changed in the last 70 years since I’ve been living. Who has changed it? Black folks. Muhammad Ali, what did he do? He refused to go to service, didn’t he? Skinner: He was a conscientious objector. Pruitt: Yes. What did he do? Didn’t he change the way we go into the service now? Did he change that? Skinner: Yeah, he was a modifier on a number of things. Pruitt: Didn’t Dr. King change the whole world? You ain’t never seen people demonstrating and marching and—after Dr. King, all of this come about. Booker T. Washington. George Washington Carver. Granville T. Woods. Moore: Thurgood Marshall. Pruitt: Thurgood Marshall. Then you ask the average black person right now, who invented the first telephone, who will they tell you? Who invented the first telephone? Skinner: They’ll say Alexander Graham Bell. [LAUGHTER] Pruitt: It wasn’t. Granville T. Woods was the first man who invented—he sold out to Bell. The first cowboy. The first cowboy hat was worn—who wore it? A black man. They taken that from him. The horseshoes, the cowboy boots. Black man. Pencil sharpener, the piano. The grease device you grease your car with. All those things. The two-cylinder gasoline, the refrigerator, the fan up there. You know why he invented that? The clock was a—all of these things. You ask black people, they don’t know anything about this. But the black man got tired of fanning all the time. They had to fan boss. And he invented that. He got tired of working from can to can’t. From the time I can see until the time I can’t, you had to work. He invented the clock. These things, we don’t teach our kids none of this stuff. And when I tell young people, I’m telling you this because I don’t want you to have to go through what I went through. And I know you guys are young men, you haven’t through what I gone through from Mississippi and Louisiana and all those places where I’ve lived. But try to tell them they’re the best, because if you don’t, they want to slip you but right back in the same place you was in the ‘20s. And if you don’t tell them how you came through and what life is about so far as you can, then it’ll be easy for them to slip back in there. Because they don’t say anything about it in the church. Now, see, white people do. That’s why they churches and their businesses—they don’t care about you being in there. Because they can’t talk about it when you’re involved. When I went to the police department, it made a great difference, a great change. Because I was sitting up in every meeting, and when something come down, brother, I was right there. And they couldn’t get in there and talk about us and call us names and different kind of stuff, because I was there. And that’s why I tell young people, get involved. As long as you’re on the outside, you don’t know what’s going on in the inside. But when I was on the inside—hey. A lot of people that I had to—they knew what was going on. Yeah. But they don’t want you there whupping his mom and his daughter and his sister. And he ain’t going to be whupping yours. But as long as he ain’t got nobody in there to protect that, he going to dog ‘em. Yeah. Skinner: Jim, again, you have a lot of interesting information that we would love to glean. We don’t have a lot of time, because I know you’re getting ready to go back to Alaska tomorrow morning. But Jim, before we end this interview—and like I said, it’s been good. Jim, we want to thank you. There’s no question about it, we definitely want to thank you because you’ve definitely helped us out. But, Jim, I want to go back and I want to touch on one thing. Jim, and I know that you have been musically inclined, been involved in entertainment, singing, choirs, night club groups and stuff like that. Tell me—tell us a little bit about where you got—you also mentioned that you learned to sing the blues behind a plow line and a mule. Tell us something about how you— Pruitt: Well, I’ll tell you, I started plowing when I was five years old. And all my folks sing. I started singing plowing that mule. I listened to the rhythm of the mule’s harness. The hames would be—you know what the hames is? Them things that go around his neck on the collar. The traces—the traces are the chains that run down to the plow. And the mule would walk, and he had more rhythm than the drum and his ears would flop just like—and he was stepping to that. And I learned to sing from that. And I remember the first blues song that I learned to sing, it was Louise. And I started singing that song one evening. I’ma sing just a little bit of it for you. And the guys across the field over there—that’s why we didn’t have no telephone, because they could holler so loud. I was singing [singing] Louise, Louise. You the sweetest girl I know. Oh, Louise. You’re the sweetest girl I know. Well, you made me walk from Chicago down to the Gulf of Mexico. And somebody over there, the next cut over there would holler, say, hey, James, say, sing that one more time. [LAUGHTER] And I would sing it again. But my dad didn’t know no better, he said, boy, you’re going to hell, singing the blues. [LAUGHTER] But I did. I learned—I remember the first gospel song that I learned to sing. I sang that in church when I was five years old. “There’s no room at the hotel.” And I still know every word of that song today. I’m going to sing a little bit of that for you. [singing] There’s no room, no room at the hotel. There’s no room, no room at the hotel. When the time fully come for my savior to be born, they said, I’ve no room, no room at the hotel. They said, bell boys, the porters and the waitress, high maids and cooks, will be a witness in judgment because they saw them overlooked. Well, they heard the manager say, when he turned poor Mary away, he said, there’s no room, no room at the hotel. [APPLAUSE] Skinner: That was the first that you sang, five years old. Pruitt: That was the first. And I sang that up in the night club in Anchorage, Alaska. And people just, they were talking about they wanted to hear that. Skinner: Well, Jim, as I’ve said, you’ve been involved in church choirs, different quartets, little groups around over the years. What was the first group that you performed with here locally in the Tri-Cities? Do you know the name of the group? Can you remember? Pruitt: The Christian Travelers. Skinner: The Christian Travelers? Pruitt: The Christian Travelers, 1949. Skinner: 1949? Who was on— Pruitt: John Tharps, we called Peewee, was a tenor stringer. Joe Straws was the first lead singer. And Otis Denham. Skinner: Who now? Pruitt: Otis Denham. Skinner: Denham? Pruitt: Yeah, he lives in Spokane now. He’s 87 years old. He’s kind of feeble—my foster brother. I’m going up to see him probably before I leave. I gotta go up—I told him—he called me this evening. I said, well, I’m going to put it off. I was going to leave tomorrow, but I’m going to wait and go Sunday, because I don’t have to catch the plane until Monday night. Skinner: Oh, okay, okay. Pruitt: So I’m going to go up and see him. Otis Denham, he was the baritone singer. Me, I was the bass singer. They made me sing bass. I never sang bass before. Because I used to sing seven different voices. But since I trained my voice to sing down, I can’t go—I can go, [singing] oh—I can go down, but I can’t go up to the high no more. But Cassalee Turner was the first tenor. Peewee was the second tenor. Otis Denham was the baritone, and I were the bass. But I got something I’m taking up to him is one of the old recordings that we had back in the ‘50s. Moore: You have a recording? Pruitt: Huh? Moore: You have a recording still? Pruitt: Yeah. Moore: Oh, okay. Hmm. Pruitt: Yup. Skinner: Well, you know, that’s interesting, also, Jim, because not only is that keepsake information for you, I know our group is interested in materials such as that. Having access or copies or whatever, because we feel it’s so important for us to document and put contributions that African Americans have made and things they’ve been involved with. We’re trying to gather this information. So that’s why it perked our interested that you have a copy. Pruitt: Yeah, I think in 1952, we broadcast some Sunday mornings out of Pasco. Skinner: Do you remember what station it was? Pruitt: Yeah, Pasco. Skinner: I know. Was there any call letters at that time? Pruitt: Um. Moore: It was KEPR, wasn’t it? That’s the only thing— Pruitt: Yeah, KEPR. Skinner: Was it? In ’52? Moore: Mm-hmm, I was there. Pruitt: Yeah. Skinner: Well, I know there was— Pruitt: We broadcast every Sunday morning for 30 minutes. Skinner: Or was it K-I-M-A? K-I-M-A, being—I’m just trying to think because before we had the KEPR radio station here or television station, the broadcast was coming out of the city of Yakima. Pruitt: No. [VIDEO CUTS] [camera man]: Go ahead. Skinner: Jim, again, you shared with us a number of things, again, on the last we were talking about your music involvement, being involved in some local choirs and entertainment in general. And I know that you’ve been involved in any number of groups, and entertained any number of businesses and night clubs around the Tri-City and around the country and stuff like that. Can you tell me the second group that you got in—became involved in as far as music? Pruitt: Yes, the Heavenly Harps, here in Pasco. That was the second group. And then I went down in Los Angeles and I was with the Rainbow Gospel Singers there for a while. And also in Las Vegas, the Clouds of Joy. I was with the Clouds of Joy in Las Vegas. We set up Local Number 11 down there with Odessa Perkins, was with the Ward Singers at one time. Ward’s was—Ward Singers were a professional group. I was with that group for a while. Skinner: Well, Jim, again, as I’ve said that you— Pruitt: But I would like to say this, John. When I first started singing, I remember, here—the first time I went to blues, I never sang blues in the club before until 1969. I was drawing $42 a week. Ed Jackson came to me and asked me if I would want to sing. I said, man, I don’t sing the blues; I sing gospel. But I was drawing $42 a week. He said, I’ll pay you $130 if you will sing, and I’ll give you the band. You take the band and you go ahead. I’ll pay you. It was easy $130 a week if you take that, if you sing and help keep the young people out of here. Because you know everybody, and keep them out of the club. And I went and talked to my wife. She said, if I were you, I wouldn’t sing. I don’t know. Because people are going to say you ain’t nothing if you go and sing, because you’ve been singing gospel. I said, baby, I said, I got bills to pay, I got my kids to feed. I said, nah, you know? What am I going to do? $42 a week ain’t very much. I said, the man offered me that and I can still draw my unemployment and I’d make enough to where we can eat and pay our light bill and everything until spring come, maybe my jobs’ll come back. She said, no, I don’t think I would do that. I said, well, sweetheart, this is one time I’m going to have to overrule you. I’m going to take this. And I went down and started to sing. I held no office in the church. I still went to church, but you know, nobody ever said anything to me about it. But they didn’t agree with me singing down in that club. But the members, the choir members of each church were paying $2.50 a night to come to Jack’s Pit and Grill to hear me sing. And we had more fun—because to me, it was a job. I wasn’t there women-chasing and getting drunk and all that. I was trying to make some money. That’s what I done. People who got mad at me because they said I wasn’t a Christian. But I am a Christian. And a lot of people don’t know what a Christian is. You ask most people, say, what is a Christian? A Christian is Christ-like. A Christian is not a murderer; they don’t harm people, they don’t destroy. I’m not a peace-breaker; I’m a peacemaker. And anywhere you go, you will find that within me. Anywhere I go in Anchorage, Alaska, they call me Mr. Pruitt. In Fairbanks, they call me King James. [LAUGHTER] They do. And I ask the young people, why y’all call me Mr. Pruitt? You think I’m getting old? But I get that kind of respect. I go to the Hilton, I go to the band, to the Sheraton, to the—any of those places I go. And if I go in there, I bet you I can go in there and stay in there for three minutes and my table’s going to be full of people. I don’t go and tell people, you ought to go do this, and you oughtta go—I tell how life has been with me. And what’s on the inside of me. And people enjoy that. This is what I’m saying, the minister’s afraid to go out in the community and go into these places. See, if you were such a strong person, why should you be afraid to go in? I don’t want to go to where young people live. I’m where young people are. Young people keep you hopping. They keep your mind—you don’t have time to think about them aches and pains and them hurts. But when you sit around with them old folks, child, say, my old knee hurting me so bad and my old hip hurting me so bad, I don’t know what I’m going to do. I don’t want to hear that. My next birthday, I’ll be 78 years old. I get up and I go, I say, I got a little combo. I sing two nights a week. I sing gospel in the club. Black folks told me, you don’t sing gospel in the clubs. You don’t sing that. Mahalia Jackson turned out a million dollar contract. She didn’t sing in no club. Why not? That’s where you’re supposed to sing. That’s where the preacher’s supposed to go. He said, go into the hedges and highways. And I go in there, old woman 89 years old, I went in the VFW and she said, Mr. Pruitt, do you sing gospel? I said, yes, ma’am. She said, will you sing some for me, please, sir? I did “Just A Closer Walk with Thee,” wasn’t a dry eye in the house when I got through. [LAUGHTER] There wasn’t any white people. But I mean, this is what it’s about and what I’m doing. I’m not going in there to get drunk. Because drinking is something I ain’t never cared about. Now, I take a drink every now and again, but I ain’t never cared about no drinking and stuff. But I am concerned about people. Young people, man, I’d do anything in the world to help them. And I try—all my grandkids, I try to talk to them, try to show them the way and help them to understand. But you know, if you don’t have some backing sometimes, it’s hard. Skinner: Yes, it is. Pruitt: And like I said, you can go to church and everything else, but if you ain’t got some backings, you don’t learn. And I’m still—the preachers, used to be the preachers and teachers used to be the outstanding people in the community. The preachers sold out. They want some money. Bring the tithe. And they don’t think about what the young people going to do. Skinner: Mm-hmm, yup. Pruitt: Just do this today. And I wish that they would wake up and start doing something and taking the bridle off of young people and tell them to go. You know, whatever your talent is, go out there and do it. As long as you ain’t going out there and killing and robbing and stealing and doing things that’s not good for your life. But whatever your talent is, go out there and do it. Skinner: Jim, I want to say this right here. The African American for an Academic Society History and Recognition Committee truly thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule and interviewing with us. And I want to say it was a pleasure. It was a pleasure. Pruitt: Thank you. I’m glad to be here. Skinner: Yes, and we glad to have you. Jim, is there anything else you want to add at this time to the interview? If you want to ad lib or—just feel comfortable saying— Pruitt: Well, I would like to say that it’s a blessing that you guys are doing this, because this has never been done before. I think a lot of people actually are afraid to come forward and say something. But me, I’m like Paul. Silver and gold have in number such as I have, I give of thee. So I’m glad to see you doing this. And I walked in and saw Lynn down in the park, I was surprised. It did me good to see you down there. And the few people on the chart there that I named, I saw that he was interested in that, and that’s good. That’s beautiful. I wish you could get some more young people involved in that, in this, to— Skinner: Well, we’re trying now, Jim. That’s the whole reason behind this. We want to be able to reduce to paper, video, the contribution that African Americans have made, and with the hope that we can get the black community more involved in a number of programs and as you say, being on the inside. Again, Triple-A-S as far as an organization is invested in the young people. We’re just basically trying to get the information together and trying to get the information out. So we’re glad we’re able to do it and we’re hoping that when we do put the finished product together, that the community folks or folks in the community or folks that may see this exhibit would be appreciative that someone took the time to tell the story that my family or part of my family or someone I know came this way in the Tri-Cities. Pruitt: Well, I’d like to say something else. Kurtzman Park over there, the black men that put that park together that was given to us. Every tree that was sent out over there, these hands dug them up. Me and one white boy, Roy Hagerton. Skinner: What was his name again? Pruitt: Hagerton. We went out to Job’s and we went out there and worked four hours on a Saturday morning, and he gave us those trees. While we would go in there, other men was digging the trenches for the waterlines. Some of the guy were out at the old navy base up there digging up the pipes that had been given to us, and St. John’s Trucking was hauling them over to Kurtzman Park, free. Skinner: Did George Kurtzman donate this land, was it to the City of Pasco, or— Pruitt: Old Man Kurtzman? Skinner: Or was it to— Pruitt: He dedicated that to the park. Yeah, he dedicated that to us. Skinner: So the initial work that went into what we now know as Kurtzman Park, but I remember it first as Candy Cane Park. Pruitt: It ain’t never had been Candy Cane. Skinner: It never had? Pruitt: Never been. It’s always been Kurtzman. Skinner: Well, you know, for some reason, I’m wondering why I’m getting the Candy Cane. Pruitt: That’s Kurtzman. Skinner: I know it’s Kurtzman Park, but I remember when they—now, we look at the park as the physical size it is now. When it was initially put in there, they had a merry-go-round, a monkey bars, an elephant slide there, and if I’m not mistaken it says Candy Cane Park, but maybe I’m wrong. Pruitt: Yup. Skinner: Okay. Pruitt: Kurtzman. Skinner: It was right across the street—we had California Street and Wehe Street came together. Pruitt: That’s right. Skinner: So this is just interesting, because I do know it was a community involvement— Pruitt: Project. Skinner: --project, as far as the initial work as far as stabilizing the area and stuff like that. Pruitt: And I will say this, I don’t think—two people in this, Joe Jackson and Webster Jackson, never got out in the ditches with us. I never seen them out there. And he’s the guy, Webster—I am the cause of Webster Jackson having the job he got today. Skinner: For the City of Pasco? Pruitt: Yes, sir. Webster—Oweda, you can ask Oweda. She’ll tell you. I begged her to take the job she can down there. Skinner: Was that Weda Ran? Pruitt: Yes. Webster Jackson, Marv Wenniger gave me the authority to set up all—from the chief of police, the sergeants or whoever, that’s why I said they worked with me on that. I set up the screening process for everything. When they come down to the three people to take over Urban Renewal, it was Wayne Jackson, Herbert Houser or Webster Jackson. Marv Wenniger came to me and he said, I’ll give you the choice to pick whichever one of these men that you think would be suitable for Urban Renewal. Skinner: Urban Renewal Project was around 1968, wasn’t it? Pruitt: Mm-hmm. Skinner: About 1968. Pruitt: Yeah. [camera man]: Four minutes left, John. Skinner: Okay. Pruitt: Yeah, so I selected Webster over Wayne Jackson and Herbert Houser. Because I felt like Webster knew more about the community than anybody else. And that’s why I picked him. And a lot of people was dissatisfied with Webster. Skinner: James, there’s a lot of unsung heroes and heroines, if you will, in the community. When I say unsung, individuals that were behind the scene and individuals that were out there in the trenches and never got the credit for it. Do you know some of those people out there, James? Pruitt: Gilbert Owens, Emma Hawkins, Joe Bush, Cloy, Ray Henry, Herman James--he worked out there with his son—oh, it’s so many people that gave a hand out there. They worked with us. Even George Heidlebaugh, they’d come out there and they’d help. Whatever little they could do. That’s one thing they done, they really did. And we appreciated that. But there was Vanis Daniels and Willy Daniels. They worked out there. Skinner: Anyway, again, James, we—when I say we, again, it’s African Americans for an Academic Society History and Recognition Committee, do greatly appreciate you taking this time out and sharing this information with us and we’re working towards successfully putting together this exhibit. With your help, I think we’re going to achieve it. Pruitt: Thank you, and you know you’re like my son anyway. I worked with you quite a bit. And you’re grown up. [LAUGHTER] Yup. <a href="https://youtu.be/yPWOzm9FYj0">View interview Part 1 on Youtube.</a> <a href="https://youtu.be/blacQngZFTo">View interview Part 2 on Youtube.</a> Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1948-2006 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with James Pruitt Description An account of the resource James Pruitt moved to the Tri-Cities in 1948 and was influential in civil rights movements. An interview conducted by the African American Community Cultural and Educational Society (AACCES) as part of an oral history project documenting the lives of African Americans in the Tri-Cities during the Manhattan Project and Cold War. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource African American Community Cultural and Educational Society Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 10/18/2001 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mpg Subject The topic of the resource Hanford Site (Wash.) Richland (Wash.) Pasco (Wash.) Kennewick (Wash.) Migration Racism Segregation Civil rights Civil rights movements Affirmative action https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F89fce3241701c3d58378786875fff7cf.JPG acba8b9b6c77d3630951a4bb70d16234 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F8d82eea1f502ff3eef5b9efd443d8103.mp4 8fd48403898a7a19ee7162e11f819f35 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Documenting African American Migration, Segregation, and Civil Rights History at Manhattan Project National Historical Park (MAPR), Hanford Subject The topic of the resource African Americans; Oral History Description An account of the resource A National Park Service funded project to document the history of African American contributions to Hanford and the surrounding communities. This project was conducted through the Pacific Northwest Cooperative Ecosystems Unit, Task Agreement P17AC01288 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National Park Service Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 9/1/2017-9/1/2019 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource For permission to publish or for more information contact the Hanford History Project. Relation A related resource RG2D_4D AACCES Oral History Project Language A language of the resource English Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG2_8 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Vanis Daniels Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Cornelius Walker Location The location of the interview Home of Cornelius Walker (Pasco, WA) Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Vanis Daniels: Mr. Walker, we would like to conduct an interview with you as to when you came to the Tri-City area. And the reason why we are wanting to conduct an interview with you—we are with the Triple-A-S History and Recognition Committee and we would like to interview you to find out the part that blacks played in developing the Pacific Northwest and their contributions to like World War II and the Tri-Cities in general and the Pacific Northwest since then. So, my first question to you is, do you remember when you arrived in the Tri-City area, what year did you come here? Cornelius Walker: ’48. Daniels: In 1948. Walker: Right. Daniels: Did you come by yourself, or did you come with someone, like a group of people? Walker: I traveled by myself. Daniels: You traveled by yourself. Where did you live before you came to the Tri-Cities? Walker: I lived in Vallejo, California. Daniels: And before Vallejo? Walker: St. Louis. Daniels: And before St. Louis? Walker: Gregory, Arkansas. Daniels: Say that again? Walker: Gregory, Arkansas. Daniels: Gregory, Arkansas. Okay. What kind of work did you do in Arkansas, before you— Walker: Farm work. Daniels: Farm. And when you went to St. Louis, what kind of work did you do? Walker: I worked in the steel foundry. Daniels: How many years did you work in St. Louis at the steel foundry? Walker: Oh, I’d say about, it was pretty close to two years. Daniels: And then, when you went to Vallejo, what kind of work did you do there? Walker: Worked at the shipyard. Daniels: How many years did you work at the shipyard in California? Walker: Oh, I would say almost three years, around. Daniels: Do you remember how old you were when you left Vallejo and came to the Tri-Cities? Walker: 18. Daniels: 18. Walker: Oh, wait a minute—no, I don’t know what I’m talking about. Hold on now. Just wait just a minute. Erase that. When I left— Daniels: Arkansas? Walker: No, I left Vallejo and came here. Daniels: Mm-hm. Walker: Vallejo. Now, ask the question over again. Daniels: Okay. Do you remember how old you were when you left Vallejo and came to the Tri-Cities or Pasco? Walker: I must’ve been 22, I believe. Daniels: Okay. Why did you leave Vallejo and come to Pasco? Walker: Because I heard it was better jobs up in here. And I think, I’m pretty sure, some of the Hanford work had started and I just heard it was better construction work up here. Daniels: Do you remember—I’m getting kind of personal, but do you remember your rate of pay when you came here, against what you were making in Vallejo? Walker: Oh, I think we was at that time, we must’ve been getting $0.80-something an hour. That was at the shipyard. So when I came—no, at the ship—let me get it straight. I left the shipyard and started working construction. I worked at Fairfield, California. Vacaville, I worked there, all up through there. Of course, my company had a job, I’d go one job to the other one. When I left there, I came here. Daniels: Okay. And you heard about Hanford and that it was paying more money? Walker: Oh, yeah. They said there was a lot of work out here. I wouldn’t worry so much about the pay. I was young, I was looking for longer work, you know. Daniels: I understand. Leonard Moore: Did he stay in construction work? Daniels: Did you stay in construction work? Walker: Yes. Daniels: Okay. Now, when you left Vallejo and came here, did you come by car or train, bus--? Walker: Bus. Daniels: Oh, okay. And did you come to—you came from Vallejo to Pasco by yourself? Walker: Right, I didn’t have no—I didn’t travel with friends. That’s the way I’d make it by myself. I didn’t travel with friends. I just—because I didn’t want to get nobody—if I found me the bed, I wouldn’t need to help nobody. So I just traveled by myself. Daniels: Now, do you remember when you first came to the Tri-Cities or Pasco, do you remember where you lived? Walker: I got a job and I lived at the—North Richland, in the barracks. Daniels: Okay. Can you tell me a little bit about your living conditions? What was it like? Walker: It was really nice there. We had good food, we had the maid change the beds and everything—it was a joint to clean the barracks everyday. It was good living conditions there. I really did like it there. Daniels: Now, did you eat in a mess hall, or did—in the barracks, were you allowed to do your own cooking, or did you eat in the mess hall? Walker: No, they had a big mess hall. [INAUDIBLE] They had a small one first before they got the big one built, then they closed down the little ones, small ones. Of course, you know, they really started hiring later, and they had to get that done where the men had a place to stay and eat. That was their position, to feed the mens and house them. Daniels: Now, after you came here and went to work, do you remember what areas you worked in? Walker: Well, I didn’t work in the Area at first, because I worked for a company, J.A. Turlin. Richland was classified as the Area, but it wasn’t out in the Area that we might be speaking about. Daniels: Okay. How did they treat you? I mean, when you lived in the barracks out at Richland, was they segregated? Were they mixed? Walker: Oh, they was mixed. There wasn’t no segregation at that time. They didn’t have separate barracks for this race, they all lived together. If there was room in a certain barracks, that’s where we went, wherever they wanted to put you at. There was nothing about like no segregation. Daniels: Now, once you got to the barracks, how did you get to and from your job, from the barracks to your job and back to your barracks? Walker: They had transportation for that. Worked their way from the barracks. Daniels: Again, were you a skilled craftsman or did you do plain labor, or what did you do? Walker: I did labor work, like that. Most of the time, I did skilled work because I was a pipe layer. I laid pipe. So that would be classified as skilled work, but it’s labor skill. Daniels: Again, would you give me the name of the person you worked for? Walker: The company? Daniels: Yes. Walker: J.A. Turlin. Daniels: J.A. Turlin, okay. Now, I want you to tell me in your own words how you felt about working at Hanford. And before you say anything, when I ask you this, coming from Arkansas to St. Louis to Vallejo, California to the Tri-Cities, the transition is what I’m trying to get from you, as to whether you felt that you were treated right or you felt comfortable with your job and with your supervisors, or did they sort of, I guess what I want to say is, kind of intimidate you? Walker: No, there was no intimidation. I had a good job, and the bosses all, from the superintendent down, were just like that with me. Because they believed in me, they trusted me, over the crew, over the type of work we were doing. Because they knew if they sent me on, it’s going to be done. That’s the reputation I had. Daniels: Now, what was the hardest thing for you to adjust to—and this is the entire area, including your work—when you came to the Tri-Cities? And that means the social life, after work, at work, the area in general, you know, was built up, was it shacks? Whatever it was. Walker: No, no, it wasn’t no shacks. It was all new barracks. They’d build ‘em, they’d move them in. Because that’s the way they was hiring at the time. They couldn’t hire too many mens at the time and have somewhere for them to stay. They didn’t come, or hire nobody that they would depending on having them find place for themself. They had a place for them. Daniels: Now, do you remember what you did once you got off work as far as social life? Was there places to go? Could you go out and eat dinner or maybe dance, or whatever your preference were? Walker: No, there wasn’t no places like that then. Because Richland was the closest place, and it wasn’t built up. At the time, the places that was, they was kind of segregated, you know? So I didn’t worry about going to them of course. We had fun at the barracks, we could play ball like with the fellows around there, you all got together, you could do that. Moore: Did you play baseball? Walker: Beg your pardon? Moore: Did you play baseball? Walker: Yeah, I played a lot of baseball. But I didn’t get as good as I wanted to get. Of course, I wanted to go to the big leagues. But then my situation I had come here to work and so forth so I just kind of forgot about it. Daniels: I see. In working out at Hanford, did anybody ever tell you, or did you ever know, the project you were working on? What I mean by that is, did you know what—when you built whatever you built, worked on whatever you worked, did you know what they were going to do with it after you got it built? Walker: Well, I know is something was on a chemical plant, like I said. Something I worked at before they started building the building, I was laying pipe and such as that. Daniels: And nobody ever told you that this was to further the war effort or anything like that? Where you worked, were you allowed to talk about it after you got off work with people that you knew? Walker: It was explained to us, they didn’t want the mens going out doing talk about the Project. They was explaining that to you at least once a month. Of course, there’s new guys coming in. They just wouldn’t take the new guys; they’d go over everything with the old guys, too. They listened to it, too. They had to. Daniels: I see. Can you tell me a little bit—I understand that you left here in the early ‘50s and did a lot of work in Alaska, but you would come back. You still had a family and a home and all that stuff here. So can you tell me a little bit about your travels and your jobs and how you would progress through the years and able to retire and— Walker: Well, when I would go to Alaska, I always had good jobs—always had a job. I had people, after the first year, I had companies that I’d work for and when they got ready for me, they would either send for me, or if I didn’t have the money, they would send it and just get the ticket and come over. They’d refund the ticket. Them kind of people I would work for, and that’s the kind of job—I was a hard worker, taking care of my own business. I didn’t associate—it was all right, but I didn’t associate, drinking. A lot of guys get off from work, they’d sit around the barracks and drink and get drunk. Well, that wasn’t my thing, because I didn’t drink. So not that I thought I was more than they were. They weren’t doing what I liked to do. I found God, we sat down, sometimes we’d play cards. You could play cards and all that stuff. Sit down and talk about some of your back-life, where you come from and how you come up and all of that. Daniels: Do you remember any African Americans or black people, do you remember the names of any of them that you worked with while you worked here at Hanford? Walker: Mm—names I don’t hold in my head so good. But let me see if I can think of some of them. [man off-camera]: I’m going to stop it right here. [VIDEO CUTS] [man off-camera]: Okay, go ahead. Daniels: Okay, I understand that you worked on McNary Dam, and at the time, you moved from the barracks to Pasco. Can you tell me where you lived when you came to Pasco? Walker: Mm, let me see now. Where did I move when I moved from Pasco? I really—I’m sorry to say, I really don’t know exactly where I was living at the time. Moore: Was it a house or a trailer? Walker: It was a house. Moore: But here in east Pasco? Walker: Yes. Moore: Okay. Daniels: When you—do you remember what year you worked on the dams? Walker: I don’t know exactly what year I worked—I know it was in the ‘50s. Moore: In the ‘50s. Daniels: Would it have been ’50, ’51 and maybe the first part of ’52? Walker: I worked there in ’52, I know that, yeah. I worked at the dams a little while. Moore: What kind of work did you do? Daniels: What kind of work did you do at the dam? Walker: Well, I was just labor, but I worked in concrete. Daniels: And you can’t remember any of the names of the people, either by nickname or real name, that you worked with? Walker: Oh, one guy, Stan Cooper, he lived up in Hermiston. Stan Cooper. That was one guy. Let’s see, I’m trying to think now. You know, I just can’t call it now. It been long time. Daniels: That’s okay if you can’t remember. Walker: And got old. Other things have happened since then. [LAUGHTER] Daniels: Now, do you have any pictures or anything of any of that area back in there that you might want to share with us? Walker: No, I don’t have no pictures. I’m sorry. Daniels: Well, do you know of anyone else that we might be able to talk with and interview and get some information from them? Walker: Not other people that worked on the dam with, they gone. But one guy, I don’t know if he’s still living or not. I don’t think he’s still living, because he used to come over and see me every year. That was EC Stalker. I worked with him. I just don’t know. [VIDEO CUTS] Daniels: Can you tell us a little bit about your kids and grandkids? Walker: I just had that one kid. I got another boy, but I don’t know which way he went after I left St. Louis. I used to try to keep up with him, but when they got of age, they just get away from their parents sometimes. Moore: But you had the one daughter. Walker: Yeah. Moore: Her name was—your daughter’s name was Eva? Walker: No, not Eva. Martha. Moore: Martha. Okay. Daniels: Yeah, and your grandkids? Names? Walker: Avery and Elvis. Daniels: All right. Moore: They don’t live around here. Daniels: No. Walker: They live in Fresno, California. Daniels: [whispering] Shut it off just a sec. [VIDEO CUTS] Moore: Ask him about the house. Daniels: Okay, now. Walker: We didn’t come by that house. They didn’t buy because they had no money to buy from. Walter, the husband, he worked over there at the cemetery. And right across the street, he got acquainted with these people. On account of him associating and so forth, the people— Moore: Let me have you start over, because we don’t know who these— [VIDEO CUTS] Daniels: Now, can you tell us about your daughter and son-in-law living in Kennewick and owning a home? Walker: Well, this is what happened. Her husband were working at the cemetery, and right across the street, the people lived. So he got acquainted and the peoples gave him the home. They gave him a home, but the people didn’t want him to live over there. So in order for them not to live over there, somebody just set the house on fire and burned it down. By them, hadn’t been able to get insurance and everything, so there wasn’t nothing left for them but to get out of there. Daniels: So, in the early years, there was still prejudices in the Tri-Cities, and this is one example of what you could and could not do in the Tri-Cities, or what they wanted you to do and what they didn’t want you to do. Walker: Well, like job and things, if hye didn’t want you on, you wasn’t gonna have no job. That’s just it, because they wouldn’t hire you. All there wasn’t a contractor for, some do union, like that. We had a business here, maybe you know who I’m talking about, because his name Charlton Knapp. Daniels: Yes. Walker: He was really prejudiced. He wouldn’t send a black man out on no kind of good job. He’d just have to—contractor started squawking, you finds me mens! So that’s the only way they got out. Moore: He was a union? Walker: Yeah, he finished his BA. Daniels: He finished his Business Agent. [man off-camera]: And what was his name? Walker: Charlton Knapp. Moore: Okay. So there was—let me turn this off for a minute. [VIDEO CUTS] Walker: Be caught after dark. That’s just the way it was. They wasn’t mean people, but there was mean people over there. You know, mean people, and they would hurt you if you were caught over there. If you doing—if you had to go the store or something over there, do some business, get out of there before dark. Moore: That was Kennewick. Walker: Yup. Daniels: Yeah. [VIDEO CUTS] Walker: You know, at the time, when I first got going, it wasn’t too many black people living nearby. It was like four or five there and some of them had they own homes, some of them was just there. But as time went by and all the work started, then they had to hire black because they was crying for people to come to work. At one time, young white peoples, they was kind of like scared to go up there. They wouldn’t take the chance that the black would take. They had a job, man, they kept it. Most of them did have jobs here. But a lot of black people left their jobs here because a lot of them wouldn’t study. They had no future to look out for. They working when they needed them, but when they got done, you didn’t have no job. So that’s the way that went. Moore: Okay. Walker: Moving to Anchorage, they got good jobs, they had foreman jobs. Of course, they had the opportunity to have ‘em, because they needed fresh peoples there. The man needed somebody to work. On a lot of jobs, they didn’t want to work black, but they had to. And then when the union got strong, when they called—you can call, you could call and request us all the time but they weren’t calling for nothing but white people. The union broke that up. You say, you call, I got mens. I’ll send you who available. If it don’t work out, send them back to the hall. Daniels: Yeah. Okay, Mr. Walker, that concludes our interview. We want to thank you and hopefully we have gotten some information and we thank you very much for your interview. Walker: Yeah. <a href="https://youtu.be/c3vUd_46coM">View interview on Youtube.</a> Years in Tri-Cities Area Date range for the interview subject's experience in and around the Hanford site 1948- Years on Hanford Site Years on the Hanford Site, if any. 1948-1952 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Cornelius Walker Subject The topic of the resource Hanford Site (Wash.) Richland (Wash.) Pasco (Wash.) Kennewick (Wash.) Migration McNary Lock and Dam (Or.) Discrimination Description An account of the resource Cornelius Walker moved to the Tri-Cities in 1948 to work on the Hanford Site. An interview conducted by the African American Community Cultural and Educational Society (AACCES) as part of an oral history project documenting the lives of African Americans in the Tri-Cities during the Manhattan Project and Cold War. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource African American Community Cultural and Educational Society Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mpg https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F6db522bd5dd76e3750a404b383da3b41.JPG c242a4ba8344155595e6fb257908f934 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fbfc34c0c8b8917e0671f608d2604c421.mp4 09c71f39c1bb58e676d37b1c5671e8f9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Documenting African American Migration, Segregation, and Civil Rights History at Manhattan Project National Historical Park (MAPR), Hanford Subject The topic of the resource African Americans; Oral History Description An account of the resource A National Park Service funded project to document the history of African American contributions to Hanford and the surrounding communities. This project was conducted through the Pacific Northwest Cooperative Ecosystems Unit, Task Agreement P17AC01288 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National Park Service Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 9/1/2017-9/1/2019 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource For permission to publish or for more information contact the Hanford History Project. Relation A related resource RG2D_4D AACCES Oral History Project Language A language of the resource English Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG2_8 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Vanessa Moore Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Velma Ray Location The location of the interview Home of Velma Ray (Pasco, WA) Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Interview with Velma Ray. Interviewed by Vanessa Moore. Vanessa Moore: This is an interview this afternoon with Miss Velma Ray. Velma is a Tri-Citian who was involved with work out at the Hanford Project during the Manhattan Project era, 1943-1945. And she’s here to share some of her information and experiences with us. Mrs. Ray, how are you today? Velma Ray: Fine. Moore: Great. I’m going to ask you several questions and you feel free to just share any stories or information that you would like with us, and we would appreciate that. First of all, let’s start off by finding out when you came to Hanford. What year was that? Ray: We came to Hanford from Mare Island Navy Yard in California. I was working on the Mare Island Navy Yard and my husband was working. He was a cement finisher and I was a welder. And I went to school, their welding school. And they say I learnt how to weld quicker than any student went through that school. And I was out on the shipyard and I got two raises from the time we left. And so my husband he, I guess the man that my husband—I was drawing more money than he was, and he kept talking, why, if I could just make that Pasco job, if I could just make that Pasco job. I was wondering why he wanted to leave when I was making good money. And you know when we left there, we didn’t have time to get my check and we left my whole back check, you know. And then we was in Hanford and we’d been working there I guess about six months, and finally, you know what, they sent me my money. And I wondered how did they find me? Would’ve been too bad if I’d been a criminal, because they’d’ve found me anyway. Thank God I’m a Christian; I don’t think about that. But I just thank God that they did find me and send me my check. And I thought we was going to get a welding job in Pasco. But I didn’t. We went to work at the mess hall. Moore: What year was that? Ray: That’s the same year we got here. Moore: In 1940--? Ray: ‘42. Mm-hmm. Because they was working when we got here. Because the job was already going on. I guess that’s why my husband kept on talking about, if I could just make that Pasco job. I didn’t know what the Pasco job he was talking about ‘til we got here. Moore: How did you hear about it, or how did he hear about jobs out here? Ray: I guess on the job where he working at. Moore: What type of work did he do in California? Ray: Cement finishing. Moore: Cement finishing? Ray: Mm-hmm. Moore: And, he decided to come, I understand, just looking for more wages, that he could do better here. And so you all came and brought the family. How many children did you have? Ray: We had three children at the time and we had left them in Alabama with my parents. Moore: Where did you first stay when you arrived here? Ray: We had a little a trailer. Moore: Was it in Pasco? Richland? Ray: It was in Pasco. Moore: What did this area look like when you came? The cities, were they big cities? Ray: A desert, no, it was so––just almost a desert. It didn’t rain for about three years when we came out here. Didn’t see a drop of rain. And those dust storms would come up and I cried. And one time I went to wash my clothes and had the whole lot on the line. Time I hung the last piece up, a big dust storm come and broke the line. And I just cried and went in the house. I said, Lord, I just want to leave. If somebody give me a place here, I wouldn’t—I’d say, no thank you, you can have it. Because I was ready to go back to somewhere. I thought I was fed up with Pasco. But you know it’s a funny thing. There’s something about Pasco. When you come out here and you meet more people and you leave, you want to come back. And it’s just––I just thank God; it’s a blessing to be in Pasco. Moore: Well, that’s great. You mentioned you lived in a trailer; did you ever at any time live in a one of the trailer camps out at Hanford, or the barracks? Ray: Just the barracks. The barracks. And the women barracks, it was a funny thing. We could either go down to barracks where our husband at, because it was too dangerous, unless he come, you know. But they would come up to the sitting room. They would sit there just like courting, and then he had to leave here and go back to his barracks. Moore: Were the barracks segregated by race at that time, or just male and female? Ray: No, just male and female. Moore: You mentioned it was dangerous. What made it was dangerous? Ray: You want me to tell that? Moore: Sure. Ray: Those men was raping women so bad. And so, I hate to tell this. Because one thing—see, I didn’t know it was dangerous as it was. And when I was on my way down to go—you know, a woman would go where her husband at at that time. Usually, usually you could go where he was, but this was a time, it was too dangerous. And I didn’t know that. And I don’t think he knew it. And I was walking down, then after while a man comes coming up to me, and I said, don’t you see my husband? And I just lied. And you know, God was with me. Because if I hadn’t’ve told them lies, I don’t know what they would have done. But they was coming’ up to me, Lady, so-and-so––. I said, don’t you see my husband? And that was not my husband; that was just a man about as far from as that tree. And they would leave me alone. By the time I get that far, I had said, don’t you see my husband?––Oh, Lord, I had so many husbands! Moore: It was a little bit scary. Ray: And God took care of me. When I got to that barracks, I fell across that bed. I told my husband I was never coming down there no more. And I wouldn’t either. Moore: I can understand. Ray: But he would come up there and get me. Because I wasn’t going down there no more. I was so—I’m even nervous, now, just to think about what I would do. Moore: Mm-hmm. Ray: Girl, talk about some hard praying. I was praying every step of the way. Moore: You mentioned when we spoke earlier that you also worked out at Hanford. And, tell us a little bit about what type work you did. Ray: We did Mess Hall #2. Oh, there was so many people here. There was about five mess halls. There was quite a few mess halls. But I worked in Mess Hall #2. Another lady, we worked, and we was hotline girls. And food was already set up on a table when men come to the door to walk in. And it was two hotline girlsand we had to, it was plates, bowls with hot food. And when the mens come in that door, we would have to go by that couch and stack that food up on our arms about four or five dishes. And how I done it, I don’t know. But they taught us how. And then we get in a hurry, never stop walking, just giving them food from one side of the table to the other one. And by that time, get another one. In about five or ten minutes, the whole thing was set up. And me and that girl, we laughed about it because a lot of time, them bosses, they stand there and watch us. I see them smiling. Because we were running, we set that table up so fast. They talked about how good we was. Moore: It sounds like all of the needs of the workers were met, that this was not a place that they came in, like a restaurant, and bought their food. It was provided. Ray: No, no, no. Just like, just like, you know, set the tables. And they had had everything else already set on the tables ‘cept hot food. And that’s all we had to put on there. That was why we could do it so quickly. They had the tables set up. Just that quick. Moore: Tell me a little about your husband’s work. You mentioned he was a cement finisher. And what type of work did he do here? And did he talk about it? Tells us a little about that. Ray: Well, I tell you what he done. He was a cement finisher in California, when we lived in California, come out here. He built some houses afterward. But when he working at Hanford job, we wasn’t allowed to talk. They had a sign up, talk with nobody about your work. [camera operator]: Okay, keep talking. Ray: And we couldn’t talk about our work. So that’s why a lot time, we don’t even know what was going on, because it was a secret job. But I do know they was building ammunitions to fight. Moore: Ammunition? Ray: Right. Moore: And, your husband’s name? Ray: Joe Williams. Moore: Pardon me? Ray: Joe Williams. Moore: Joe Williams. Thank you. Moore: And now, basically, you were both contributing to the effort because the war was on at this time, right? Employer–wise, did you know what the company name was, or just the project name? That you worked for, was it the DuPont Company, or that he worked for--? Ray: Well, I don’t think he worked for the same company. Because we was working for the people that served the food in the mess halls. Moore: So it was all the same. Same company, Hanford Works. Ray: Mm-hmm. Moore: Do you feel you were, that the working conditions, and how managers or supervisors treated the workers, what did you think about that? Ray: They treated them real nice. Real nice. Moore: You talked a little bit about the dust storms, and one of the questions I had is, what was the hardest— [VIDEO CUTS] <a href="https://youtu.be/Gw4Pzo1gEZY">View interivew on Youtube.</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Velma Ray Subject The topic of the resource Hanford Site (Wash.) Pasco (Wash.) Migration Description An account of the resource Velma Ray moved to Pasco, Washington to work on the Hanford Site during the Manhattan Project. An interview conducted by the African American Community Cultural and Educational Society (AACCES) as part of an oral history project documenting the lives of African Americans in the Tri-Cities during the Manhattan Project and Cold War. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource African American Community Cultural and Educational Society Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mpg https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fd6c77308885ccc1dd563285937f9e849.JPG 87d38ef7972a3113d8f0b134c209c51c https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F398bd1450eec3a75a54e04dd5debade9.mp4 b516a9c754c5e403e48b906ff90f3b1a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Documenting African American Migration, Segregation, and Civil Rights History at Manhattan Project National Historical Park (MAPR), Hanford Subject The topic of the resource African Americans; Oral History Description An account of the resource A National Park Service funded project to document the history of African American contributions to Hanford and the surrounding communities. This project was conducted through the Pacific Northwest Cooperative Ecosystems Unit, Task Agreement P17AC01288 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National Park Service Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 9/1/2017-9/1/2019 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource For permission to publish or for more information contact the Hanford History Project. Relation A related resource RG2D_4D AACCES Oral History Project Language A language of the resource English Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG2_8 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Vanis Daniels Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Joe Williams Location The location of the interview Home of Joe Williams (Pasco, WA) Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound [camera operator]: It’s recording. Vanis Daniels: I better turn mine on? [camera operator]: No. Daniels: Okay. [camera operator]: Go ahead. Daniels: Good afternoon, my name is Vanis Daniels. We are here to interview Mr. Joe Williams. We are from the Historical and Recognition Committee, which is a sub-committee of Triple-A-S. We would like to interview you and find out, if we could, please, some of the things that you did when you first came to the state of Washington, and why you came. We’ll start with, when did you arrive in the Tri-City area? Joe Williams: Is Tri-City and Hanford the same thing? Daniels: Yes. Williams: In 1943, I think. It was in February. Daniels: Did you come alone? Or if not, who came with you? Williams: My wife, and the three other fellow workers. Daniels: Okay, could you give me their names, please? Williams: I can give you their nicknames. One of them they called Long Coat and the other one High Pocket. Daniels: Okay. And your wife’s name? Williams: Was Velma. Daniels: Okay. Approximately how old were you? Fields: He was a young man. Williams: Years, I can’t remember, but I was pretty young then. Daniels: Where did you live before you came to the Tri-Cities? Where did you come from when you came to the Tri-Cities? Williams: From California. Daniels: Okay. Fields: And prior to that, where were you? Where did you come from? Daniels: Yeah, where were you originally from? Fields: Because he came from the South. Williams: Where I’m originally from? Daniels: Yes. Williams: South. Alabama. Atmore, Alabama. Daniels: Okay. What kind of work did you do in Alabama, before you left Alabama? Williams: Well, I was putting out magnesite, and spark-proof and concrete and bricks. Daniels: And after you moved to California? Williams: The same trade. I was shipped from Alabama to California. Daniels: Okay. How did you hear about Hanford? Williams: I was sent from Mare Island Navy Yard, by the Col., to Hanford. Daniels: And you decided to come because of your job? Williams: I was drafted. Daniels: How did you travel when you came to Hanford? By car, train --? Williams: By car. Daniels: Okay. And how long did it take you to get here? Williams: They gave us five ten-hour days to drive from California up here, but we couldn’t drive but 25 miles an hour. Five working days. Daniels: Where was the first place you stayed after you arrived in the Tri-Cities? Or at Hanford? Williams: Hanford. I stayed at Barrack 205. At Hanford. Daniels: Okay. Now, was that a segregated barracks, or was it--? Williams: Yep. Daniels: How did you get to and from work? That means from the barracks to the job and back. Williams: They had what they called buses that they’d bus us from the cafeteria to the job. Daniels: And what kind of work did you do after you went to work? Williams: See, I was a brick layer, cement finisher, and putting out spark-proof and magnesite. Daniels: Now, do you remember any of the areas that you worked in out there at Hanford? Williams: 200-East, 200-West, and 205. Daniels: Do you remember the name of your employer, the man that you worked for? Or the company you worked for? Williams: It was Marine Decking Company out of New York. But at that time, DuPont had the job—assumed it from the government. And we were transferred out there to put out magnesite and spark-proof. And rubberizing those plug tanks. Daniels: How did you feel about working at Hanford? Williams: Oh, I felt the same working one place I did; it didn’t make no difference. Because I working strictly on the old manpower labor board. Daniels: How were you treated on your job? Williams: Well, on the job, fine. Didn’t have no trouble. It was segregated. The black worked with the blacks, and the white worked with the whites. Daniels: What was the hardest thing you found that you had to get adjusted to by being in a new place and new surroundings? Williams: Well, at that time I had been transferred about 20 times–it wasn’t nothing to get adjusted to because I be used to it. Daniels: What did you and your coworkers do in your off hours? When I ask you that, I mean like, where did you go, where did you spend your time? You know, like if you had clubs you could go to, or churches. What did you do for relaxation, I guess I’m asking you. Williams: They had a big room, there in those barracks–that were full wing barracks–and one room was a rec-room. And in that rec-room they had every kind of game that you could play, or you could do this. If you wanted to shoot dice or gamble in the middle of the week or the street, it was legal. Daniels: Let’s shut it off. [VIDEO CUTS] Daniels: Okay. How long did you work at Hanford? Williams: Three-and-a-half years. Daniels: Okay. Now, did you have any idea what you were working on? Did they give you any information about what you were doing? Did they say anything to you as to whether you should talk about what you were doing or anything like that? Williams: You couldn’t talk about nothing you was doing. With nobody. Daniels: And, did you know what—have any idea what you were building or what you was contributing to, or anything? Williams: Nope. Because you go in one cell; if you was in Cell 45, you wouldn’t know what they was doing in Cell 18–now, you stuck with 45. And that’s where I was stuck, on Cell 45. Leonard Moore: And Cell 45, it was a work room? Williams: No, that down in the ground, 45 feet deep. Moore: Oh, it was an area. Williams: Uh-huh. Where you had the rubberizing. Rubberizing, spark-proofing and all like that. No crew worked—they worked in once place. It wasn’t the way you work here and work there. I was assigned out as being a chief rubberizer, spark-proof, stop any leaks that ever started. That’s what we were transferred all the way from back east here for that. Weren’t but eight peoples in the United States had that trade and I was dumb enough to be one out the eight. Moore: Let’s talk about the barracks. Daniels: Okay. In living in the barracks, were you and your wife able to live together? Williams: Nope. Daniels: Would you tell us a little bit about how you guys lived out in the barracks? Williams: She lived in the women barracks and I lived in the men barracks. And they had wired fences up like penitentiary around all the women barracks. And the only way you could get in there—you had to get—you could visit–and they had a big rec-room and that’s far as you could get. You didn’t know what room she slept in, or didn’t know nothing. You could go in the rec-room, that’s far as you could go. But she could come to the men’s barracks, down there, and go all the way through it. But a man couldn’t go in the women’s barrack without going through the police, or the guard, or whatever he was. Daniels: Okay. Do you remember any African Americans that you worked with at Hanford? Any black people? Williams: Did I remember--? Daniels: Remember any of them’s names? Williams: In the beginning or the ending? Daniels: All the way through. Williams: Well, in the beginning, no. I just knew the one that was shipped out. Eight of us had this trade in the United States, the whole United States, only eight of us had this, what they can stop any leaks, rubberize all [UNKNOWN] tanks. And that’s why we were transferred all over the country. But later on up in the year I recognized some. But we never knew what each other was doing. Us four was together, but they never would let but two of us work side by side. It always be somebody else that you didn’t know and they didn’t know you when you was in those cells. Daniels: Okay. Now, If, when you—after, in other words, since you couldn’t talk about what you did, and you didn’t know what the project was about, when did you learn that you were working on the Manhattan Project or that you were helping the war effort by the job that you were doing? Williams: After they started testing it. We didn’t know what we was doing. We was just doing, in one cell. Men worked in 45 cells, and I don’t know nothing but for the one. You don’t work—don’t nobody work in each other’s cells. About five different craftsman worked in the cells. And we was on the high—what they call it, when it says, it started at one up to three? Daniels: Clearances. Williams: What? Daniels: Clearances. Williams: Yeah. Q Clearance. Daniels: Right. Williams: And 45, that was the toughest ward in the whole place because it was 45 foot in the ground. And now what happened in the other cells, I don’t know no more than you do. That’s the only cell I worked in. Daniels: Okay. Can you tell me a little bit about some of the things that you have done since you left Hanford? Williams: Oh, I left Hanford, and come to Pasco and started to try to do business there and had things where the banks didn’t lend no money on the east side of 4th Street. And we started a little mortgage company. A bunch of us pooled-in. And about the time as it got ready to start up and draw a little money out and leave, one more guy had a little write-up in a paper that we’re going through anyway. And then here come a guy out of Spokane with Intermountain Mortgage started to lending money there in Pasco. Daniels: And once they started loaning money, did you go into business for yourself? And if so, what kind of business and were you prosperous in your adventure? Williams: Yeah, I started in the home building, which, that’s all I ever do. I started at 15 years old. Daniels: And you owned your own company? Williams: Yep. Daniels: And did you always live in the Tri-Cities? Or did you leave the Tri-Cities? Williams: Yeah, I left Tri-Cities and worked in Alaska. Daniels: How long did you live in Alaska? Williams: Twenty-some years. Daniels: Did you own your own business in Alaska? Williams: Yeah. Daniels: Then you left Alaska, and--? Williams: Come to Oregon to retire. More like retarded. Fields: [LAUGHTER] Daniels: And since you have been here in Oregon, have you enjoyed it? How has life been here in Oregon for you? Williams: It’s like a dream come—a good dream come true. Daniels: Were you able to do any extra work, or anything after you moved here to Oregon? Williams: I stayed flooded with work. Daniels: And you built—how many homes have you built since you’ve been down here in Oregon? Williams: About thirty-something. Daniels: All right. And is there any of them close enough where we could look at them? Williams: Yup. Daniels: Can I ask one personal question, and you don’t have to answer it if you don’t want to. What range of house would you build? Did you build? Williams: I built dream homes. Fields: Sure did. Daniels: That’s all I needed to know. [VIDEO CUTS] Daniels: Mr. Williams, since you left Hanford and after you left Hanford and moved to the Tri-Cities and started your own business, could you tell us a little bit about your life at Hanford? And before we get started with you, I would like to introduce your daughter, Bessie May Williams-- Fields: Doctor Bessie May Williams-Fields. And this is my father, Joe Williams. And I am the second child of my father and my mother, Velma and Joe. Daniels: Now, if you could, could you tell us a little bit about your life after you moved to Pasco from Hanford? Williams: You talking to me? Daniels: Mm-hmm. And Mrs. Fields—Fields. Williams: What part of that life you asking about? Daniels: Well, what did you-- Fields: I can share some basic stuff that I remember, when my father—A long time ago, you know where they had the railroad tracks? Front Street is where I remember living there with my father and my mother and their children, my sisters and brothers. And we lived in a house that I think dad built himself, and he also built a café there. There were very, very few people of color living in Pasco at that time. It was a lot of tumbleweeds. When my father moved up on Orange Street, there was nothing but tumbleweeds. And that’s where you built, he built a really, really nice house on Orange Street. But he’s built numerous homes on Orange Street. And they also started the first church there in the state of Washington—Pasco, Washington. My uncle, my father, my mother, they started praying in their homes, and they started uniting together and from that became the biggest church in Pasco, Washington today, Morning Star Baptist Church. Tremendous minds got together and they did tremendous things. [VIDEO CUTS] Daniels: Wait, just before you start. [camera operator]: Go ahead. Daniels: Make sure you tell us about the red line. In other words, once you got past 1st Street or 4th Street, or wherever it was, nobody would loan you any money. Where they red-lined east Pasco. Williams: Oh yeah. Okay, I see. Daniels: Mr. Williams, could you tell us a little bit about the living conditions and the availability of funds for black people or being able to better yourself in Pasco? Williams: The banks had a boundary. Nobody on the east side of 4th Street would they lend. Nobody, to nobody. On the east side of 4th Street. Daniels: And, you said that you started your own little banking industry? Williams: Just me and my brother-in-law and the relations and a friend pooled up X amount dollars and was going to start a loaning company. And, when we got up to where we had about, oh, $60,000-$70,000, before we could open it up, they chickened out. Well, me and one of the boys just kept on and we pretend that we was doing it, and it got in the paper. And then Intermountain Mortgage come out of Yakima and started to lending money then. We put the bluff in there because Buck and Luzell and all them chickened out. And we just had that in the paper that we were going to go ahead anyway. And that’s what started the foreigners coming in as an outfit for Intermountain Mortgage out of Spokane, Washington. Daniels: And were you able to go in restaurants, and sit down and have a meal? Or was it segregated? How did you do for getting haircuts, et cetera, et cetera? Williams: Well, it wasn’t any place, legally, for haircuts. And we had one colored guy run a café there, that’s the only one you could go in. I forget the name of it. And no place for cleaning or laundry; you had to settle to Walla Walla, Washington. Daniels: Okay. Fields, you went to school in Pasco. Could you elaborate on that a little bit for us? Tell us about the conditions, the hardships you ran into. And just growing up and going through school. Fields: I started school, I think, around 1945, and I graduated in 1958. During that time there were not a lot of people of color going to school. There are very few people that I can think of that was real inspirational in terms of my academic years in school. I do remember that I had a math teacher that was an excellent teacher, Mr. Metcalf. But I found, as a person of color, I did not have a lot of support; I didn’t have a lot of encouragement in terms of what I should do with my mind. I was always told that I had good dexterity, which I was real good in my fingers, and I was encouraged to, perhaps, be a beautician. To me that was like an insult, because I felt that, maybe if black people were still picking cotton, that would have been a perfectly good place for me to go, because I had good dexterity in my hands, to start picking cotton. But I didn’t get the kind of encouragement and the support I think I could have gotten had we not had a segregated, in some sense of the word, even though blacks and whites did go to school together. But they did not, specifically did not want you to mingle together. Because I and another student, a white male, and me, a black woman, or student, was holding hands as we walked down the halls in the school, going to each other’s locker. And we was called into the principal’s office, and sat down, and talked to us about, do your parents know that you’re black and he’s white and you guys are co-mingling together? And made a big deal out of something that was really relatively nothing. So, my experiences at the high school level was not the most positive experience that I had. No jobs. When I graduated from high school, did you see people as role models? Black people that you could look up and say, wow, I can do that. No, you didn’t have any role models, so what could you do? I left there, what, in the ‘60s? I think I left maybe—no, I think I left there in 1959, Pasco. Because I saw no way for me to—I didn’t have role models. You need role models. You need people support and encourage you. You have family, but what about, you know, other people? It just wasn’t there at that time. Hopefully it’s different now, but I don’t know. [VIDEO CUTS] Fields: --you can ask me that. Daniels: Yeah. Back to Williams. In the Tri-Cities, was there, like, any other high schools around? What do you know about blacks and academically? And, just, how was it? Fields: I think, in terms of academia, and blacks at this college –not college, but—yeah, I did go to Columbia Basin College for a while. But prior to that, while I was in high school, in fact, when I graduated there was only two of us that graduated the year that I graduated in ’58. But my experience academically, there wasn’t, like I said earlier, a lot of academic support for people of color. And in terms of working at Hanford, I wasn’t cognizant that they was even hiring people at Hanford. Coming out of high school, no one ever told me that there was job openings at Hanford that I could even try to apply to a position. So, I did not work there, nor did I even know they was hiring people to work there at that time when I graduated from high school. I just tried to look at the shops and maybe get a job at some of the shops, but I was never hired. Don’t call us, we’ll call you. [LAUGHTER] Daniels: Did you intermingle with any of the high school kids from Kennewick and Richland? Fields: No, I think Kennewick was kind of like, and Richland, was kind of, forbidden territory. You know, you wasn’t, you didn’t feel accepted when you went there. So, I didn’t really go over there very often. Seldom. Very seldom did I ever go. And I’d heard of experiences of people of color who had gone over there and they were negative experiences, so therefore you wasn’t encouraged to go over there. [VIDEO CUTS] [camera operator]: Go ahead. Daniels: Okay, Dr. Fields, you have since gone on and furthered your education. Would you like to tell us about it? Fields: Yes, I did. I went to Portland State University in Portland, Oregon. I left Pasco, Washington and moved to the state of Oregon. I got married, and I married a person by the name of Fredrick Marshall Fields. He was black. He also went to Pasco Senior High School. But I left there. We had two children. And then I went back to school and I got a baccalaureate degree in education, because I wanted to teach children. And when I graduated with my degree in elementary ed., at the same time that I graduated, Portland State University, who I never even applied for a position, called me up and asked me would I apply for a position there? And I also had an offer to teach sixth grade in the state of Oregon. But then when I thought about it, why not work at the college, because that’s like working at the house of knowledge, and you can work and go to school constantly. So, then I worked there for 12 years, and during that 12 years I completed my Master’s Degree in counseling, so I was counseling when I left. And then I left there and I went on vacation in Alaska. I was hired there, almost, like, on the spot, to work as a counselor there. And then, while I was there working at the house of knowledge again, I went back to college and I got my doctorate in education administration. And I still work in academia today. I teach college and I’m also a counselor. And then I also do work with people who are mentally and physically challenged. Daniels: And how many sisters and brothers do you have? Fields: It’s ten of us all together. And I’m the second of ten. And I think there are nine of us currently living in—well, maybe there could be one brother living in Pasco, or in the state of Washington now. Daniels: Could you tell us a little bit about what they do? Fields: I have a sister that’s an accountant. I have a brother that’s working for the federal government. I have another sister who worked on the pipeline in Alaska. Some working for Boeing. And so, all of us are doing quite well in the fields that we chose. Moore: So, basically with Mr. Williams coming to this area, and raising his family here, it brought a lot to the area as a whole. Okay, so, that’s what we want to get out of that. [VIDEO CUTS] Williams: In Hanford, you was associated with your grade average. Peoples you knew you didn’t have nothing to do with them because your average was up here—your Q Clearance, and you stayed in the back with the peoples on the same Q clearance, eat with them, all the time. But the rowdy bunch, they couldn’t stay in the barracks that the guys with the high Qs lived in. They couldn’t eat in the mess hall with the high Qs. And I had Q-4, the highest. There was only ten of us. That’s all I can give you on account of the ten of us that worked together. Moore: So, you were pretty isolated. Williams: Yeah. We were totally isolated. Fields: Very isolated. Williams: See, the highest you could go was Q-4, and I was Q-4. And when it got down—all ten of us wasn’t no Q-4. There was only three of us made Q-4. Moore: Okay. [camera operator] Okay, go ahead. Williams: We did have a trailer. I pulled it down there just for that short period of time, then I bought them the thing from the railroad. Daniels: When you first moved to Pasco, you lived in a trailer -- Williams: Yeah. Daniels:--and then from a trailer then you built-- [VIDEO CUTS] Daniels: Okay, Mr. Williams, after you moved to Pasco, how did you live? Was it in a trailer, a house, or apartment? Williams: When I first went there I pulled a trailer in there. We lived in there. And the railroad had a row of one room of I think about six, and then one that had two rooms in it, and I bought that from the railroad on Front Street. And then from Front Street, I started to go on east building something to live in decent. Daniels: And when you left the Tri-Cities, did you own your own home when you finally relocated to Alaska? Williams: You mean, did I own my home in Alaska? Daniels: In Pasco. Williams: Yeah, I had seven homes there. Fields: Seven. Williams: Seven. Daniels: That’s what I’m trying to get out of you. And then you relocated in Alaska. Williams: Yeah. Fields: And built beautiful homes in—beautiful dream homes in Alaska. As well as in The Dalles, Oregon. Daniels: Were you allowed to build on the west side of Pasco, or were you limited to the east side? Williams: Limited to the east side, if I’m building them for myself. But if you wanted me to build you a house, I could build it over there. But I couldn’t build nothing on the east side of 4th Street. And I was stuck with what I was trying to do on the east side. And after I goofed up on putting in them foundations, they tore the playhouse down there and wouldn’t put in a grocery store. Because I wasn’t going to build no grocery store. Moore: Ask him about—let’s hear the story about the grocery store. Was that a company wanted you to build out? Williams: The company wanted me to put in a grocery store, kinda like the Eastside Market was, over there. But the guy was going to run it for me. And if I was going to borrow the money to build it, I wanted to run it for myself. And because I wouldn’t sign for him—me build the store, they supply the store and they run the store, they cut my funding off and told me they wasn’t going to lend me another nickel and I told him I didn’t give a damn. Moore: [whispering] Where was it located? Daniels: Where was it located at, Mr. Williams? Williams: What? Daniels: The store that they wanted you to build. Williams: It was over there off of--what street Velma stay on? Fields: Sycamore. Williams: It was off of Sycamore. Moore: All right. [VIDEO CUTS] Daniels: Okay, that just about concludes the questions and the interview. And we want to thank you, Mr. Joe Williams, and you, Dr. Fields for helping us out. Williams: You’re welcome, and I appreciate you coming. I didn’t know nothing when you got here, and I don’t know nothing when you leaving. So, nothing from nothing leaves nothing. [LAUGHTER] Fields: The pleasure was ours. Daniels: Thank you. <a href="https://youtu.be/gHiDjPyeU88">View interview on Youtube.</a> Hanford Sites Any sites on the Hanford site mentioned in the interview 200 East 200 West Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Joe Williams Subject The topic of the resource Hanford Site (Wash.) Richland (Wash.) Pasco (Wash.) Kennewick (Wash.) Migration Segregation Discrimination School integration Description An account of the resource Joe Williams moved to the Tri-Cities in 1943 to work on the Hanford Site. An interview conducted by the African American Community Cultural and Educational Society (AACCES) as part of an oral history project documenting the lives of African Americans in the Tri-Cities during the Manhattan Project and Cold War. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource African American Community Cultural and Educational Society Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford Oral History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for this item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mpg https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Ff0bef8a65fdaa6b797a91629acf66a07.tif e37e5bee6033df7b3a7c32583e3caa34 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Alice Didier, Oral History Metadata Subject The topic of the resource Metadata received during oral history interview with Alice Didier Description An account of the resource Items donated by Alice Didier to the Hanford History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Relation A related resource <a href="http://hanfordhistory.com/items/show/207">Alice Didier Oral History Interview</a> Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Didier Family Subject The topic of the resource Agriculture; Farming; Farmers; Homesteading; Tractors Description An account of the resource The Didier family posing with a "C" tractor. Alice and Don with their children (from left to right), Curt, Clint, and Denise. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Alice Didier Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Sep-58 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG1D_2D001 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fff94ccefb6bee294e9a41ca7938b53db.tif 9b2f819747402fc28340b8c539e6361f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Alice Didier, Oral History Metadata Subject The topic of the resource Metadata received during oral history interview with Alice Didier Description An account of the resource Items donated by Alice Didier to the Hanford History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Relation A related resource <a href="http://hanfordhistory.com/items/show/207">Alice Didier Oral History Interview</a> Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Chris and Denise Subject The topic of the resource Agriculture; Farming; Farmers; Homesteading Description An account of the resource Chris and Denise Didier posing at the family homestead. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Alice Didier Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1957 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG1D_2D002 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fa204342cad2eb404f1a586cb79ea57d6.tif 8e1c6b96b515f81a7fe6a0d7d1f2a144 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Alice Didier, Oral History Metadata Subject The topic of the resource Metadata received during oral history interview with Alice Didier Description An account of the resource Items donated by Alice Didier to the Hanford History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Relation A related resource <a href="http://hanfordhistory.com/items/show/207">Alice Didier Oral History Interview</a> Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Don and Curt. Subject The topic of the resource Agriculture; Farming; Farmers; Homesteading; Shelters; Tents Description An account of the resource Don and Curt Didier pose in front of their homestead tent. Alice Didier can be seen inside the tent. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Alice Didier Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Jun-55 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG1D_2D003 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F11e81a16a8221b0f70accbf2c2450fe5.tif b94626b1a20764cff5b398ff76a795cd Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Alice Didier, Oral History Metadata Subject The topic of the resource Metadata received during oral history interview with Alice Didier Description An account of the resource Items donated by Alice Didier to the Hanford History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Relation A related resource <a href="http://hanfordhistory.com/items/show/207">Alice Didier Oral History Interview</a> Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Clint and Curt Subject The topic of the resource Agriculture; Farming; Farmers; Homesteading; Trucks Description An account of the resource Clint and Curt Didier pose in front of a truck at the Didier homestead. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Alice Didier Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG1D_2D004 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F40645ab9cae564781f1cfb5bda244587.tif 1989e6d79827e0f1ecf51cb95b9fe64b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Alice Didier, Oral History Metadata Subject The topic of the resource Metadata received during oral history interview with Alice Didier Description An account of the resource Items donated by Alice Didier to the Hanford History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Relation A related resource <a href="http://hanfordhistory.com/items/show/207">Alice Didier Oral History Interview</a> Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Didier Homestead Subject The topic of the resource Agriculture; Farming; Farmers; Reclamation of land; Clearing of land; Homesteading; Machinery; Tracklaying vehicles; Bulldozers; Trucks Description An account of the resource Photograph of the Didier homestead with heavy equipment clearing sagebrush in the background Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Alice Didier Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 7/13/2016 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG1D_2D006 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Type The nature or genre of the resource Photographic prints Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project, Washington State University Tri-Cities Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource TIFF Language A language of the resource English https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fc916c5dff16230ab4d3aa4fa0fd257bd.tif 899a40a71d09245ced21f117e4e2ff0f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Alice Didier, Oral History Metadata Subject The topic of the resource Metadata received during oral history interview with Alice Didier Description An account of the resource Items donated by Alice Didier to the Hanford History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Relation A related resource <a href="http://hanfordhistory.com/items/show/207">Alice Didier Oral History Interview</a> Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Didier Homestead Subject The topic of the resource Agriculture; Farming; Homesteading Description An account of the resource View of uncleared land at the Dider homestead near Eltopia, WA Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Alice Didier Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 7/13/2016 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG1D_2D007 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Type The nature or genre of the resource Photographic prints Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project, Washington State University Tri-Cities Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource TIFF Language A language of the resource English https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fd661075ea9251780bffc9d107d90092f.jpg 1e7baf784e2042c26f043c517430b7ce https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F3ea86e97bbbaff434d818cecde1a0e73.jpg 9bf68adb22b784207243c54307ce1a96 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F305bb9d009068449e70ffeba76cf727c.jpg ba849ccb9d1fae81fe0513037d68a5f4 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fa52b4b9c573f615feae39cdbda92f237.jpg 09d27ac6d2417ac579e949103468b0e0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James L. Acord, sculptor Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Leroy Acord (1944–2011) was an artist recognized for his work with radioactive materials. His artistic practice involved creating sculptures and events that engaged with the history of nuclear engineering and addressed questions surrounding the long-term storage of nuclear waste. The James L. Acord archival collection chronicles the life, career, and legacy of Acord, who was the only private individual to be licensed for the artistic use of radioactive materials. Acord’s work is characterized by his efforts to combine nuclear science with contemporary sculpture. His nuclear license number was tattooed on his neck. For 15 years, Acord resided in Richland, Washington, a community established for the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. While there, he developed a proposal to construct a "Nuclear Stonehenge" on a contaminated section of the Hanford site, which would have incorporated twelve uranium breeder-blanket assemblies. He also created the sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," which is located at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Acord lectured at art and nuclear industry events in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He also organized forums that convened artists, activists, and nuclear industry experts. From 1998 to 1999, he held an Artist in Residence position at Imperial College London. He died in Seattle on January 9, 2011, at the age of 66. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Atomic Art Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource This collection of scanned newspaper pages comprises an article from the "Arts/Entertainment" section of The Seattle Times and Seattle Post-Intelligencer, published on Sunday, July 2, 1989. The prominent headline on the first page reads "ATOMIC ART," with a sub-headline stating, "SCULPTOR'S N-WASTE PROJECT MAY BE OF MONUMENTAL IMPORTANCE." The article, authored by Times Art Critic Deloris Tarzan Ament focuses on James Acord and his work, particularly his "nuclear-cored" sculptures and performance art, which engage with themes of nuclear waste and materials. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ament, Deloris Tarzan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available The Seattle Times, Seattle Post-Intelligencer Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part, or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Newspaper, .pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource July 2, 1989 Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Art atomic art drawing Hanford James Acord Manhattan Project nuclear nuclear art Richland sculpture sketch https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fbbeea06da6cb7098c2bd295626a377cb.jpg 79e5d8a26052d8b32a7824d82101d258 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Wanda Munn, Oral History Metadata Subject The topic of the resource Metadata received during oral history interview with Wanda Munn Description An account of the resource Items donated by Wanda Munn to the Hanford History Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Wanda Munn Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Relation A related resource <a href="http://hanfordhistory.com/items/show/818">Wanda Munn Oral History Interview</a> Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG1D_2J Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource ANS Local Section Exhibit Award Description An account of the resource Wanda Munn receiving the American Nuclear Society Local Section Exhibit Award Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource American Nuclear Society Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project, Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1988 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG1D_2J003 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fae4fac8a4e8dfcf639150de6d1bcbefc.jpg c1f9d9f93ccdcd682f25be618f6ee6f9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Wanda Munn, Oral History Metadata Subject The topic of the resource Metadata received during oral history interview with Wanda Munn Description An account of the resource Items donated by Wanda Munn to the Hanford History Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Wanda Munn Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Relation A related resource <a href="http://hanfordhistory.com/items/show/818">Wanda Munn Oral History Interview</a> Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG1D_2J Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Associate Member, American Nuclear Society Description An account of the resource Certificate of Associate Membership in the American Nuclear Society Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource American Nuclear Society Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project, Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 01/01/1978 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG1D_2J027 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F70b9f5695281bb0026cfb3a64a270ff1.docx 503c5ed3fe1658d96f7c0cb3b8054be8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hanford History Project Finding Aids Description An account of the resource Finding aids for archive collections held by the Hanford History Project at WSU Tri-Cities. The Hanford History Project collections generally relate to Hanford, but encompassing material outside of the Department of Energy Hanford Collection scope. This focus includes the town of Richland, pre-1943 and post-1990 Hanford Site history, and materials relating to Hanford not produced on the Hanford Site during the Manhattan Project and Cold War. See list of finding aids for specific collections. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanford History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource American Nuclear Society - Eastern Washington Chapter Collection Description An account of the resource This collection was donated by a former secretary, Teresa Tritt, of the American Nuclear Society, in Richland, WA. The collection consists of approximately 600 items, which include documents, photographs, films and other media pertaining to public awareness, education, and advocacy nuclear science and technology. The bulk of which are dated from the 1970s and 1980s. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource American Nuclear Society Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG5A https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F8f1cf26f3c5f06f680c0d15669ceaa3a.tif fa371377dd95ce6115be09057423143c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James L. Acord, sculptor Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource James Leroy Acord (1944–2011) was an artist recognized for his work with radioactive materials. His artistic practice involved creating sculptures and events that engaged with the history of nuclear engineering and addressed questions surrounding the long-term storage of nuclear waste. The James L. Acord archival collection chronicles the life, career, and legacy of Acord, who was the only private individual to be licensed for the artistic use of radioactive materials. Acord’s work is characterized by his efforts to combine nuclear science with contemporary sculpture. His nuclear license number was tattooed on his neck. For 15 years, Acord resided in Richland, Washington, a community established for the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. While there, he developed a proposal to construct a "Nuclear Stonehenge" on a contaminated section of the Hanford site, which would have incorporated twelve uranium breeder-blanket assemblies. He also created the sculpture, "Monstrance for a Grey Horse," which is located at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. Acord lectured at art and nuclear industry events in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He also organized forums that convened artists, activists, and nuclear industry experts. From 1998 to 1999, he held an Artist in Residence position at Imperial College London. He died in Seattle on January 9, 2011, at the age of 66. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Certificate, hand written calligraphy Physical Dimensions The actual physical size of the original image 11"x14" Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource The American Nuclear Society Special Award fo Nuclear Public Communication Subject The topic of the resource Nuclear Science and Fine Art Description An account of the resource An award presented to Jim Acord on June 21, 1994 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 21, 1994 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part, or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Americn Nuclear Society Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .pdf Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. The Hanford History Project (HHP) operates under a sub-contract from Hanford Mission Integration Services (HMIS), who are a primary contract for the US Deparment of Energy's curatorial services for the Hanford Site. HHP proudly manages the Department of Energy's Hanford Collection, an artifact and archival collection that documents the Manhattan Project and Cold War history of the Hanford Site (1943-1990). Scripto Transcription A written representation of a document. The American Nuclear Society Presents its Special Award for Nuclear Public Communication to James L. Acord For his selfless dedication, uncommon style and wit. He continuously presents the beauty and logic of nuclear science not only to colleagues, but also to other nontech- nical and adversarial audiences hitherto unreached by messages from the technical community. By order of the Board of Directors (signed) Edward D. Fuller, President (signed) James G. Toscas, Executive Director June 21, 1994 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F9c1b4cf8f71ae760f342ef4533c276a9.pdf 35d87266c7d9f9bbb0f83ec2f9b5959d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hanford White Bluffs Family Histories Subject The topic of the resource Orchards, Railroads, Homesteading, Fruit Irrigation, Ranches, Fruit trees, Clubs, Music, Natural gas, Sand, Seasons, Winter, Spring, Valleys, Pruning, Dams, War, Indigenous peoples, Hardware stores, Dance, Travel, Rivers, Covered wagons, Horses, Earthquakes, Railroad stations, Hotels, Dairy products, Lanterns, Radios, Settlements, Depressions, Regattas, Snow, Banks, Telephones, Dust storms, Newspapers, Clippings, Swimming, Swimming pools, Refrigerators, Recreation, Religious services, Telegraph, Theaters, History, Religious communities, Hospitals, Picnics, Safety, Summer, Canning & preserving, Engineers, Dogs, Trees, Agriculture, Farming, Schools, Churches, Nuclear power, Farm produce, Banks, Fires, Holidays Description An account of the resource These were handwritten and typed responses to a questionnaire sent out by the White Bluffs-Hanford Pioneer Association, for its 38th Anniversary or Reunion Booklet (sometime in the 1980’s). Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource The Anderson, Anglin, Clark, Currens, Horton, Kilian, Leander, Macomber, Montgomery, Needham, O’Larey and Wheeler Families. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project, Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1981-1983 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Type The nature or genre of the resource Reminiscing Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Anderson Family History Subject The topic of the resource Agriculture, Orchards, Farming, Railroads, Homesteading, Schools, Fruit Description An account of the resource These were handwritten and typed responses to a questionnaire sent out by the White Bluffs-Hanford Pioneer Association, for its 38th Anniversary or Reunion Booklet (sometime in the 1980’s). Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Anderson, Howard Fredric Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project, Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1981 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Type The nature or genre of the resource Reminiscing https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Ffe242e3377be5c31b172e80cb4287776.pdf 71aa564be2256b8f78f4280db9940e56 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hanford White Bluffs Family Histories Subject The topic of the resource Orchards, Railroads, Homesteading, Fruit Irrigation, Ranches, Fruit trees, Clubs, Music, Natural gas, Sand, Seasons, Winter, Spring, Valleys, Pruning, Dams, War, Indigenous peoples, Hardware stores, Dance, Travel, Rivers, Covered wagons, Horses, Earthquakes, Railroad stations, Hotels, Dairy products, Lanterns, Radios, Settlements, Depressions, Regattas, Snow, Banks, Telephones, Dust storms, Newspapers, Clippings, Swimming, Swimming pools, Refrigerators, Recreation, Religious services, Telegraph, Theaters, History, Religious communities, Hospitals, Picnics, Safety, Summer, Canning & preserving, Engineers, Dogs, Trees, Agriculture, Farming, Schools, Churches, Nuclear power, Farm produce, Banks, Fires, Holidays Description An account of the resource These were handwritten and typed responses to a questionnaire sent out by the White Bluffs-Hanford Pioneer Association, for its 38th Anniversary or Reunion Booklet (sometime in the 1980’s). Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource The Anderson, Anglin, Clark, Currens, Horton, Kilian, Leander, Macomber, Montgomery, Needham, O’Larey and Wheeler Families. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project, Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1981-1983 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Type The nature or genre of the resource Reminiscing Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Anglin Family History Subject The topic of the resource Agriculture, Orchards, Farming, Railroads, Homesteading, Schools, Fruit, Canning & preserving, Churches, Irrigation, Ranches, Trees, Fruit trees, Clubs, Religious communities, Music, Natural gas, Sand, Seasons, Winter, Spring, Summer, Pruning, Dams, War Description An account of the resource These were handwritten and typed responses to a questionnaire sent out by the White Bluffs-Hanford Pioneer Association, for its 38th Anniversary or Reunion Booklet (sometime in the 1980’s). Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Anglin Rilette, Margaret (Sue) J. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project, Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1981 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Type The nature or genre of the resource Reminiscing https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F6cb9430e4ddf1e434d248e1393059c5e.png 9030a4d1b416d2151ffd5f91a13e0d2d https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F011ce5d56edf9997e81d4a6bd36a550d.png 838f3b88314d1c6a98b0818e86808f62 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F4bc8ee8717e4c634d39b15f698277542.png f7d5758f1c3e616e70b7aa09e2490423 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fead56798b1bc0c143c1dd478f7ec9143.png 53a66c00fb9393e109eda94c9e0b11dd https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F6b531fa835073e801be52348d642aadf.png aa3c54c44ef3b1b9f090a17cf5fe678c https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F466e5b25c1c92d150486e3753cdbd523.png ba2477ada33a42fbc215bef965608903 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Architecture 542: Issues in Architecture Subject The topic of the resource Student work; Interdisciplinary study Description An account of the resource In Spring of 2024 Robert Franklin (History) and Phil Gruen (SDC) co-taught Architecture 542: Issues in Architecture as a Pullman graduate course. The students, 21 Architecture and 2 History, worked on a variety of projects, some historical and some contemporary, focused on the racial history of the East Pasco Community. Some of these projects support a grant with the National Park Service, "Digital Asset Management and Community Engagement to Enhance Understanding of Public Resources" with Robert Franklin as Principal Investigator. These grant-sponsored projects, when finalized, will be hosted on the National Park Service's Manhattan Project National Historical Park website and apps. A selection of these in-progress projects and assets created by the students is hosted in this collection. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Walking Tour Sketches Description An account of the resource Hand-drawn sketches of sites on the East Pasco Walking Tour, currently under construction for the National Park Service Manhattan Project National Historical Park app. Estimated date of public availability is FY2027. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Anthony Noble https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F7cf796f8abf5b4e0d52da6140f6cc9c9.docx 8996c20d30cf8d315b557887fcede481 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hanford History Project Finding Aids Description An account of the resource Finding aids for archive collections held by the Hanford History Project at WSU Tri-Cities. The Hanford History Project collections generally relate to Hanford, but encompassing material outside of the Department of Energy Hanford Collection scope. This focus includes the town of Richland, pre-1943 and post-1990 Hanford Site history, and materials relating to Hanford not produced on the Hanford Site during the Manhattan Project and Cold War. See list of finding aids for specific collections. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanford History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Arlys D. Wineinger Day's Pay Collection Description An account of the resource The collection includes archive and artifact material from the Day’s Pay bomber and the Army Air Corps career of Arlys Wineinger. The artifacts are all from the Day’s Pay bomber. The archival material includes records of Arlys’ study materials for the Army Air Corps pilot test, photographs taken from the Day’s Pay bomber in action, and letters and cards from Hanford Engineer Works employees to Arlys. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Arlys D. Wineinger Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1942-1945 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG4J https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F5b89a8303aa010a28ab062349ab288d7.tif d5df82453a83d5eda2c6718a06e514a1 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Physical booklet Physical Dimensions The actual physical size of the original image 21.5 x 28 cm Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Radioactive Waste Management Subject The topic of the resource waste management Description An account of the resource 21.5 x 28 cm: Booklet showing the process of waste management at Hanford Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Atlantic Richfield Hanford Company Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Atlantic Richfield Hanford Company Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 1971 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource tiff Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Physical booklet Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Radioactive Waste Management at Hanford001 Date Available Date (often a range) that the resource became or will become available. 2022 https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Ff71d72eebe869cb3706547f4d5906135.MP3 5928f11d6ad8f2b96a457985a865011c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource B Reactor Museum Association Oral Histories Description An account of the resource Oral History Interviews conducted by the B Reactor Museum Association. The collection is split between a series of audio oral histories taken in the late 1990s and early 2000s by Gene Weisskopf that focuses on the T-Plant, and a series of video oral histories done in the early 1990s by Bill Putman that focus on the B Reactor and Hanford construction. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3, DOCX Language A language of the resource English Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Gene Weisskopf Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed William M. Ryan Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound N/A Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:47:53 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 128kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource William Ryan Oral History Interview Subject The topic of the resource B Reactor National Historic Landmark (Wash.) Description An account of the resource An oral history interview with William Ryan conducted by the B Reactor Museum Association. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource B Reactor Museum Association Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 11/27/2000 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3 Language A language of the resource English https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2Fbf0c0670c9c1e07c696cb3ae8bfffb7f.MP3 21f608b8180ddcb2bb3816d2bc7b4361 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource B Reactor Museum Association Oral Histories Description An account of the resource Oral History Interviews conducted by the B Reactor Museum Association. The collection is split between a series of audio oral histories taken in the late 1990s and early 2000s by Gene Weisskopf that focuses on the T-Plant, and a series of video oral histories done in the early 1990s by Bill Putman that focus on the B Reactor and Hanford construction. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3, DOCX Language A language of the resource English Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Gene Weisskopf Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Gardner Clark "G.C." Blackburn Location The location of the interview Richland Public Library, Richland, WA Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Interview of G.C. Blackburn on audio tape (not video) at the Richland, WA, Public Library November 17, 1999 by Gene Weisskopf, BRMA WEISSKOPF: Today is November 17, 1999, and we're with G.C. Blackburn. And please tell me what the G and the C stand for. BLACKBURN: Gardner Clark Blackburn. WEISSKOPF: People knew you as G.C.? BLACKBURN: G.C. Part of the time I was called Blackie. I worked on the Mississippi River on the dams, and I used to work for, when I was a regular carpenter, I worked for a boss. They called him Whitey. Because I was Whitey before. So then they called him Whitey, I had to be called Blackie. WEISSKOPF: And why did they call you Whitey? BLACKBURN: I don't know. My hair was always light, light-colored, and I guess that's probably why. WEISSKOPF: What projects were you working on in the Mississippi? BLACKBURN: Well, I worked on two different dams as a carpenter, and then I worked for DuPont. We built a plant in Ioway *(phonetic--is he saying Iowa?), and that's why I knew --- of course, DuPont was the same thing down in Oklahoma. I worked down in Oklahoma there. We made stuff for the war. WEISSKOPF: And you were working for DuPont at that point? BLACKBURN: Yes. WEISSKOPF: And doing construction? BLACKBURN: Right. I was sort of a layout carpenter down there. I didn't have to go out in the mud and the water. I worked out of the main building. WEISSKOPF: So where were you in 1943 when DuPont wanted to send you out here? BLACKBURN: When they found me, I was business agent for the carpenters in --- gosh... WEISSKOPF: Were you working on a project? BLACKBURN: No. I had a regular office and everything. When I got a call from Oklahoma job from my business agent in Savanna, Illinois, wanting to know if I wanted his job. And I said "Well, it's close to home, my family's there and everything," so I quit that job and come back up there. And he retired, and I got elected by full vote. So I was there about two years or so, maybe three, and this recruiter come along for this job out here. And he said "I'm looking for carpenters." He said, "And by the way, maybe you want to go out." And I said I would as a foreman, but not as a carpenter. So he said "Well, we need foremen, too." So I had three carpenters that come out with me. I drove out here from there. I didn't ever see the West like this before. And we got out here. WEISSKOPF: And about what time was that? In October? BLACKBURN: That was about the last --- in the last three days of October, I think it was. WEISSKOPF: Now, you said you had a family. They were still back in --- BLACKBURN: They were still back there, because I had bought a house in Savanna. WEISSKOPF: Savanna, Illinois. BLACKBURN: Yeah. So they stayed there, and I come out here. And the first thing they said to me when I got to their office the next morning was I'd have to work with my tools for a week before I could... And I said, "Well, who's the manager?" And they told me, and I said "Well, by God, I know him. I better go see him." I went and seen him, and he said --- shook hands, and he said that --- he was the top dog at the Oklahoma job when I was there, so he knew me from there. And I told him, I said "Somebody's wanting me to work with my tools." He said "You don't have to work with your tools, you've been in DuPont too long, you know all their safeties and all that." WEISSKOPF: Do you remember his name? BLACKBURN: I can't --- there's a lot of names I can remember. WEISSKOPF: What was he in charge of at Hanford? BLACKBURN: All the carpenter work. All the carpenter construction. WEISSKOPF: Okay. So instead of picking up your tools, you were a foreman. BLACKBURN: Yeah, I was a foreman right off the bat. He gave me, oh, about fifteen guys and three or four helpers. And the first day I worked right in Hanford. We were building the places to eat, and stuff like that, you know. WEISSKOPF: In the construction camp? BLACKBURN: Yeah. And before the day was out, why, a guy come around to me and said "I understand that you're a heavy construction worker." I said that's all --- I knew more of that than I did this kind of work. So he said "You pick out about five of your best men, and tomorrow morning hit the bus to the area, West area." So I did, and I got out there, and they had me another 15 carpenters, and I had 20 carpenters, and about 8 helpers. And T Plant was just a big hole in the ground. A big hole in the ground. WEISSKOPF: Had they even started pouring concrete yet? BLACKBURN: Seems to me that there had been a little concrete poured in the basement. WEISSKOPF: I think one of the things I read was that they started it well before then, but very little work was done --- BLACKBURN: Yeah, very little. WEISSKOPF: --- because the reactors were getting a lot of the materials --- BLACKBURN: Well, they were getting attention. WEISSKOPF: Yeah. BLACKBURN: Also, they were making blueprints in Chicago, and we got new blueprints about every day. WEISSKOPF: Revised, or just more of them? BLACKBURN: Well, some of them were revised, some of them were --- as we went along, that's the way it worked. WEISSKOPF: But every day did you have some specific part of the project that there were blueprints --- BLACKBURN: Oh, yes. WEISSKOPF: --- and it was laid out? BLACKBURN: I was foreman over the 224 and 221, both carpenter crews. There was probably about five at that time, in the plant there were about five, or maybe four, carpenter foremen, and each one of them had a crew there. So we put that building up pretty fast. WEISSKOPF: And I guess was a lot of the work just doing concrete forming? BLACKBURN: Most of it was forming and stuff. Like I said about our blueprints, they had the blueprints all in a little house, and we could come in, the foremen could come in there and get out the blueprint and take measurements and all that different stuff, and put that on a piece of paper and go out again. But we couldn't take the blueprints out. WEISSKOPF: How many times a day would you have to go back in there? BLACKBURN: Oh, about twice, I guess. WEISSKOPF: That's all? BLACKBURN: At noon, morning and noon. WEISSKOPF: And you were able to take enough notes that could --- BLACKBURN: Oh, yes. WEISSKOPF: How was that different from a regular job? How might you deal with blueprints on a regular job? BLACKBURN: Well, we could carry the blueprints when I worked in Oklahoma, and stuff like that. WEISSKOPF: Wouldn't you be referring to them many, many times a day? BLACKBURN: Probably quite a bit. Especially on some certain jobs. WEISSKOPF: So how were you able at Hanford just to look at this huge set of plans twice a day? BLACKBURN: Well, it was such a large job. And when you put in one deal for concrete, why, it took piles of concrete to fill that up. WEISSKOPF: So you said "We have to make this set of forms this morning," it might be 500 feet long, or something like that? BLACKBURN: We made an awful big plan, and used the big rigs. And at the same time we were building that one, why, we were building the 24. And I had men in each place. WEISSKOPF: What did they tell you the building was going to be? BLACKBURN: Nothing, at that time. All we had to do was guess, because we had so much concrete. WEISSKOPF: You were starting to get a feel for how big it was? BLACKBURN: Oh, yeah. Gene, it was a big one. And I knew it had to be some explosive, but I didn't know what kind. WEISSKOPF: It was DuPont, and it was the war. BLACKBURN: See, I was a carpenter on the plant in Savanna, about six miles out of Savanna, where we made the regular bombs and everything like that, so I got to see how they were made, and packed, and painted, and everything like that pretty well, because I was up there during that time. WEISSKOPF: Were you surprised at how thick the walls were? BLACKBURN: Oh, God, yes. On the dams, we had walls, oh, a foot and a half, two foot thick, and got out here and run into six foot, seven foot walls, so I knew something had to be an explosive. But they --- we never said anything. We didn't dare tell our families, or anything like that, what was going on. WEISSKOPF: When you were forming up, say, walls, and you started from the bottom and you realized they were seven feet thick, did you form them all the way up, or what was the work --- BLACKBURN: Well, you formed one set about, oh, around 18 foot high, and then you poured concrete there, and then you went from --- you'd pull the vans* up, and you go up, keep going up. WEISSKOPF: And the rebar would continue on up? BLACKBURN: Oh, yes. WEISSKOPF: So you started well below grade, then, right? BLACKBURN: Oh, we were right --- a big hole. A big hole. I'm just guessing now that the hole itself was 35, 40 foot deep. It was pretty --- they put a (inaudible)* in the bottom of it. Because that had to be deep concrete underneath the cells in there, you know, and the cells are all down under the ground. WEISSKOPF: Were they calling them cells at the time, when you were forming up all these components? BLACKBURN: I don't know what we called them. WEISSKOPF: Because, on the one hand, it makes it real easy if everybody refers to everything in the same way, but if they're not allowed to tell you what the real name is, then everybody might end up using a different name. BLACKBURN: Using everything. That's right. WEISSKOPF: So you were working with rebar inside the walls, but at some point as you got up there was a lot of piping, too. BLACKBURN: Oh, yes. WEISSKOPF: And were you dealing with that with your forming? BLACKBURN: Carpenters didn't deal with piping. There were piping people that was putting in there before we poured concrete. WEISSKOPF: But who was cutting holes in the form and making sure the holes were in the --- BLACKBURN: We cut holes in the forms and stuff. WEISSKOPF: Was that pretty straightforward? BLACKBURN: Some of the same forms we could use for a lot of different cells. See, really, 221 was built, well, in a way a little bit sloppy, but each cell was pretty much the same as the other. WEISSKOPF: Right. BLACKBURN: Until you got down to where we brought in the metal, and stuff like that. (Inaudible)* and stuff like that down there. And then, of course, we had to build a track. Tracks come in the --- WEISSKOPF: For the train? BLACKBURN: Yeah. I guess you could call the east end, the east end of T Plant, I guess. And the tanks and a lot of all the equipment practically come into the deal through the railroad and through where we put the dissolvers afterwards. Big tanks. There was no way of putting them in through the doors. I had two guys for several months, all they done is build the entrance to the canyon. And after the first months using the blueprints, after that we didn't need a blueprint, we knew just what they were doing. They were all the same, and along about every hundred feet we put an entry into it. And the entry was a level at the top of the settles. So everything from there was down under the ground, see. WEISSKOPF: And the entries you're talking about were on the smokestack side of the building, that went into the canyon itself? BLACKBURN: Entries were all on the --- let's see. That was east, that would be on the south side. WEISSKOPF: Southeast side? BLACKBURN: South, yeah, of the canyon, the whole length. WEISSKOPF: And on the other side of the canyon, the long side, the gallery side --- BLACKBURN: That's right, the gallery. WEISSKOPF: They had their own entrances. BLACKBURN: Oh, yeah. We had the offices, all that on that side. WEISSKOPF: On the entrances that went into the canyon, do you remember how those were built up? BLACKBURN: Well, they started out like this. And we put steps up to here, and then we put steps this way, and then we put steps into the canyon, and that's where the doors were. WEISSKOPF: And those were also thick walls. BLACKBURN: So that anything from inside would not affect the outside at all, the radiation or anything. WEISSKOPF: Was the door anything special? Did you ever see the door? Were you around for that? BLACKBURN: Them doors, it's just heavy wood, stuff like that. They were thick and heavy, I remember that. WEISSKOPF: Back to the building of the forms for a 7 foot wall is in itself no big deal. But do you remember how precise they asked you to make the forming? BLACKBURN: Oh, the forming, they wanted it just as close as possible. The forms inside, and then they made all the covers for the cells outside. That was a different game. WEISSKOPF: I've seen pictures of that. But you were forming up the cells themselves? BLACKBURN: Oh, yes, on the cells themselves. And we had to have them just almost perfect according to the engineers in order for these big tops to fit in just right, see. WEISSKOPF: As a matter of comparison, what were your tolerances on other jobs for DuPont, when you were just building a normal type of a factory? BLACKBURN: Well, probably half, three-quarters of an inch on a lot of work. But this one here, we tried to be underneath the half-inch. WEISSKOPF: And when you were forming the cells, did they have metal forms or premade forms? BLACKBURN: We had premade forms that stuck in there. I can't remember what they were made of. I think they were metal. We used them in every cell, the same ones, just moved on down the cells. WEISSKOPF: Did they have the holes for all the fittings that came into the cells? BLACKBURN: Yeah. There, we put in plugs, what we called plugs, and they had to go through the concrete. And some of them come from the other cells, and some of them come in there up where we added chemicals and stuff down through there. And electrical deals, to put electric lines and like that, a lot of that stuff in there. WEISSKOPF: Were you there when they poured concrete? BLACKBURN: Oh, yes. WEISSKOPF: So you were there from building the forms and taking the forms down later on. BLACKBURN: At the same time. Most of the forms, like I said, when they poured up to this level, why, then you just pulled the forms up with the big train heads*. And we used some of the same bolts that we used to get the bottoms in, and we'd use the same thing up at the top. WEISSKOPF: The cells were what? Twenty feet deep, something like that, plus the thickness of the covers. They were very deep. BLACKBURN: The cells were all at least 20 foot deep. WEISSKOPF: You didn't pour those in one pour, then, that depth? I was wondering how you used those reusable forms. BLACKBURN: Some of the forms was pulled up inside, too. I think they were pouring 15 to 20, almost 20 foot concrete. We had a big machine set up for concrete. You didn't bring trucks in. The trucks just put it into the big machines, and the machines come and we pour the concrete, why, it was just a steady stream. WEISSKOPF: It was pumped in? BLACKBURN: Yeah, pumped in. And fellows worked in there in what we used to call --- I can't think of what we used to call them. WEISSKOPF: To tamp down the concrete? BLACKBURN: Yeah. WEISSKOPF: Were they vibrators? BLACKBURN: Well, that's what they were, but we had names for them. WEISSKOPF: How did you stick a vibrator down into a 7 foot thick wall that was just packed full of piping and conduit and stuff like that? BLACKBURN: Well, you could do that. We used both kinds. One vibrator was about that big. WEISSKOPF: About three inches across? BLACKBURN: Well, not quite three inches. Probably two and a half. And long, about like that, you know. WEISSKOPF: Two feet? BLACKBURN: And then we had what we called a pineapple that roared when you put it in concrete, and it just has it all over. Had both kinds. WEISSKOPF: And if any of those pipes had been bumped or knocked or dislodged, it would have been real trouble. Was everybody extra careful, or was it in there --- BLACKBURN: Oh, I'm sure it was. We didn't seem to have any problem that way. WEISSKOPF: Okay. BLACKBURN: See, a lot of the pipes themselves, if I remember right, we put in what we called jockeys for these holes, and then the pipes was put in some of them afterwards. WEISSKOPF: Oh. Through channels in the concrete? BLACKBURN: Yeah, that's right. Then afterwards they put these heads on these lines so that the crane could bring in a pipe, all different rods, and put it on to there and then tighten it up. WEISSKOPF: Uh-huh, I've seen pictures. BLACKBURN: Our biggest problem was the gaskets. When they started leaking, why, you had to pull off the jumper, we called them jumpers. You had to pull them off and put in a new one because they would be too hot, some of them would be too hot. If they were chemical jumpers, you could bring them out and redo the deal. But the whole system for 221-T was very simple. Very simple. All we did is bring in the slugs and take the aluminum coats off that we had put on in 300 area. Because, see, I worked a few weeks in 300 area also on making those slugs before I was chosen to go out to 231 Building. WEISSKOPF: Is that where you first met Roger Hultgren? BLACKBURN: Hultgren, I believe I didn't meet him until I got out to 221 for (inaudible)*. See, some of them guys didn't come out during construction, I think they come more or less when it was about ready to start up. WEISSKOPF: Right. BLACKBURN: I think he come from Chicago, too, I believe, if I remember. But I knew him well. WEISSKOPF: Well, let's maybe change gears for a minute. Let's jump to the end of construction. Did you leave 221 after it was completely finished? BLACKBURN: Practically finished. WEISSKOPF: You stuck with it most of the time? BLACKBURN: Yeah. Well, yeah, I worked till almost October. WEISSKOPF: Of '44? BLACKBURN: Yeah. And then my whole crew was laid off. In fact, we had that part all done, and then 24 was done, so that was my deal. So they talked about our whole crew was going to be laid off. Well, I decided maybe I'd go into operations. So I signed up for operations, but most of my men all went home. They went back to Illinois, and different places like that, where we come from. WEISSKOPF: Because there wasn't any work on the rest of the site, because it was getting finished up, too? BLACKBURN: They were finishing up on the other plant right down below that was supposed to do the same thing the T Plant did. It never did. WEISSKOPF: That was U Plant, I guess. BLACKBURN: U Plant. But they never did. They never operated that. Later on, they used that for uranium. WEISSKOPF: The recycling. BLACKBURN: On T Plant, wasn't made for uranium at all. All we did is (inaudible)*, put it in the tanks, wash it with different chemicals, and then let it settle. And the uranium went down and plutonium come up. Then we sucked the plutonium off and moved it on and set the uranium through a big tank. So we did that. We just did that after several, and each time we had the plutonium down to smaller, smaller, and smaller. And then we sent it across to 224. And there they made it smaller and cleaner, and smaller and cleaner. And each batch ended up, oh, probably three gallons or three and a half gallons, and we put them in five gallon stainless steel. I forget what we call them now. And that's the way we transferred in the 231 Building, put them in big deals. WEISSKOPF: So, in October of '44 the construction was winding down, and that's when they sent you to the 300 area? BLACKBURN: That's when I hired out for operations, I went through all the dope. And I had my clearances and everything anyway, but everybody went through 300 area while they rechecked your clearances and everything. Even though I had clearances for practically everything in construction, they still needed more clearances about your life, and all this and that. So they sent you to 300 area for a week or so. The first couple of days you didn't even get in where the slugs were, you waited till they okayed you. WEISSKOPF: When you went from construction into operations, what did you think you were going into? BLACKBURN: When I got into there, I still didn't know what the slugs was for, but I knew where they were going, I knew they were going to the reactors. WEISSKOPF: Did you know they were reactors, or you just knew they were plants? BLACKBURN: I think they called them plants or something at that time. But we took the uranium and made slugs about 8 inches long, about an inch and a quarter through, and had them up to 14, 15 hundred degrees, and then we'd shove them up there for just so long, we had clocks. And then when that was ready, we transferred them over into the aluminum. The aluminum was terribly hot, too. And we had these shields, aluminum shields, a little bit longer than the slug was, and that was in this stuff. We pushed that thing down in there, and then we had a cap that we capped it off with, and brought it out, cooled it all down, and then welded the cap with a welder. WEISSKOPF: How many slugs at a time would you be dealing with? At any given hour, how many slugs went through your hands? BLACKBURN: We put, on a shift, on a shift, see, I think that we were running two or three hundred on a shift, if I remember right. Each shift kept track of what they were doing. WEISSKOPF: A shift being maybe eight, nine, ten hours? BLACKBURN: Eight hours. Eight-hour shifts. Yeah. And three shifts around the clock. And then we put them all in carriers, and that's the way they were sent to the reactors. WEISSKOPF: So in October of '44 the first reactor had already started up? BLACKBURN: Oh, yeah. WEISSKOPF: Okay. So your slugs were needed very much, to keep it going. BLACKBURN: We were still making the full-length slug with the new pipes. You know the pipes afterwards got messed up in the reactors. Then they started making small --- I didn't, not while I was there, but afterwards they had to make these slugs smaller so they could get around the... WEISSKOPF: The graphite in the reactors was expanding? BLACKBURN: Yeah. I was about a month in 300 area, and I was picked to go to 231 because they were just getting some material to 231, plutonium. And I was picked as chief operator, and I was the first chief operator in 321 Building. WEISSKOPF: The 331? BLACKBURN: 331 Building. WEISSKOPF: Wait, 231. BLACKBURN: 231. WEISSKOPF: Yeah. BLACKBURN: And I... WEISSKOPF: And that was to go in from the 221 Building, the big building, to the 224 --- BLACKBURN: To 231. WEISSKOPF: And from 221 to 224 was piped over? BLACKBURN: Yes. We pumped it. WEISSKOPF: And how did you get it to the 231? BLACKBURN: With trucks. WEISSKOPF: You put it in a container and carried it over. BLACKBURN: We contained it, and then it went with the trucks. And so then I went down there, and we had two cells down there, and I was chief on both and had about three operators in each cell. And everything was into last deal, cells down there, you know. We put it in, and drop it, pick it up, drop it, clean it, and... WEISSKOPF: So you didn't have to be a chemist to do the job, you had to be able to follow the procedure. BLACKBURN: We had chemists, too, in the building. WEISSKOPF: So, in a sense, you were like a foreman --- BLACKBURN: Yeah. WEISSKOPF: --- managing --- BLACKBURN: I was the foreman. WEISSKOPF: --- the actual process. BLACKBURN: That's right. I think the chief is supposed to be foreman. He takes care of the help, and then we had the manager of 231, and he had a supervisor, too. Anyway, I was transferred to 231 and run both areas then. And I think, and I won't bet on this, but I think I loaded out the first plutonium to the Army. WEISSKOPF: Really. BLACKBURN: And they come and backed up their truck to the back door, and I opened the door and looked out here, and here's rifles sticking in the air all around. And we loaded them on these pineapples. And I was going to tell you about the pineapple. That was the last thing that we --- we have this three and a half gallon stuff worked down to so many deals, put it in the pineapple and cooked it. We cooked so much, so many deals off from that, and then that left practically a gel in the pineapple, and that's the way we shipped it. WEISSKOPF: Did you know you had to be cautious with it? BLACKBURN: We had to be exact on the amounts. We thought, anyway. We had to be exact on the amount of the liquid that we took off that deal, because we had to weigh that, and weighed every piece. WEISSKOPF: Did the word criticality come up at that point? BLACKBURN: Oh, I'm sure it did, because everything had to be just on the seconds. And when we boiled it down, why, we had to be very careful, just exactly the amount that we took off, the liquid. And we had to weigh everything and make papers out of everything. WEISSKOPF: Was that first shipment the equivalent plutonium from the first batch of uranium that went through? BLACKBURN: I think it was. I think it was. And --- WEISSKOPF: It wasn't a combination of four or five batches, or part of a batch? BLACKBURN: Oh. Oh, yes, it was more than one batch. See, every one of these deals that we brought down from 224 turned out to be one pineapple. And I think the first shipment, I'm just kind of guessing now, we loaded up 20 pineapples. About 20 pineapples. And we understood, I'm not sure they did, we understood that that Army took that truck and went all the way down to New Mexico. But afterwards we loaded it and they put it in flatcars. WEISSKOPF: Trains? BLACKBURN: Yeah. WEISSKOPF: Oh, okay. Once the system got going? BLACKBURN: The Army went right in the train and stayed locked in there. WEISSKOPF: And that was probably in the spring of '45 you were doing that? BLACKBURN: Yeah. Yeah. Actually, it was either early November or the latter part of October that I went to 300 area. WEISSKOPF: Right. BLACKBURN: And then I was there about a month, maybe a month, when I was made a chief in the sense of 231. WEISSKOPF: You think that was already in '45 when you went there? BLACKBURN: It was probably December. I'd say probably --- could have been December. Some of these dates are a little bit funny. But, anyway, I was at 231 Building for about two and a half, three years. And we got a new manager in, and he stayed there about six months, and he knew that I was the carpenter foreman up in 221, and he was trying to get as much experience as he could. So he was all done with 231, and he wanted to know if I'd go up to 221 with him. And I said "Hell, yes. I know that building pretty well." He said "That's just why I want you to go along." So I was put on a shift up there as chief. WEISSKOPF: What was your title? BLACKBURN: Chief. And I was up there, I would guess, six, seven years. Maybe even more than that. I can't remember just how long. I stayed on one shift all the time. And he was the manager up there. WEISSKOPF: Who was that? If it comes to you. BLACKBURN: I can't remember his --- anyway, he replaced the manager at 231, because he was that guy's manager when he went to the Navy. And when he come out of the Navy, he come right back to that building and replaced the manager there. And then he was trying to get information on the whole thing, because he moved back to Chicago afterwards. He was a very nice fellow. He was a Navy --- I forget what he told me he was. He was way up, something pretty good in the Navy. WEISSKOPF: One of the important moments at Hanford was in August of '45 when they finally dropped the bomb and it made the newspapers. Why don't you describe where you were working then, and how it affected you and your job. BLACKBURN: I was still at 231 when they dropped the bomb. Of course, I think the general bunch of us pretty well knew what was going on there. But we didn't dare tell our families, or anything like that. WEISSKOPF: But you didn't know if it would work, though, either. BLACKBURN: No. I don't think they did until they set off the deals there in... WEISSKOPF: In New Mexico. BLACKBURN: New Mexico. WEISSKOPF: So as I understood it, the news came out and immediately everybody told you that Hanford was involved with it? BLACKBURN: Oh, sure, right away. We knew right away when it exploded. And then, of course, the papers was full of stuff, and things like that. In the hospital, at Kadlec Hospital, they got a lot of stuff along the walls up there. That's the new hospital, that ain't the old hospital but the new one. They've got a lot of good stuff for guys like me that wander through there and read it, and things like that. That was good. WEISSKOPF: So did it change the nature of your job, once everybody knew what you were all involved with? BLACKBURN: Well, the only thing was from then on there was a little more hurried. They knew what we was doing, and we could hustle it up a little bit more. And I worked in T Plant then, until PUREX was just about --- WEISSKOPF: REDOX or PUREX? BLACKBURN: PUREX. When PUREX was just about ready to start putting tanks in, then I was transferred over there. And soon after I got over there, I was a specialist. I was made a specialist at that (inaudible)*. WEISSKOPF: How did REDOX fit in between? BLACKBURN: There was a gang down there, and to tell you the truth I know very little about what they were doing. We knew some of the guys that worked there, but --- WEISSKOPF: T Plant was still going while REDOX was going? BLACKBURN: Oh, yes. WEISSKOPF: They kept you both going? BLACKBURN: Yeah. How they handled their work down there, I don't know. But I knew a lot of the operators, some of them that went and transferred down there, some of them that worked with me in 231, and stuff like that. WEISSKOPF: Do you think you could describe a typical day at T Plant during operations? BLACKBURN: Yes. WEISSKOPF: If you knew a batch was coming in on the train at 8:00 a.m., how would your day revolve around, before, during and after that? BLACKBURN: Well, the crane operator would take the slugs and put in the dissolvers. WEISSKOPF: And let's say if that happened at 8:00, how long before that would you be ramping up for? BLACKBURN: Oh, that particular metal probably wouldn't for the next day, maybe two days. When they got a batch ready, they had tanks to put that in. And we took it as we could take it, in batches, which is how we moved it into the tanks. We didn't exactly take it right off the dissolvers. The dissolvers went into another tank. The first thing they had to do was take the aluminum covers off. WEISSKOPF: Okay. Well, let's go back to the crane operator then and his job. At 8:00 the cask car is down there, and he's starting to put it into the dissolver? BLACKBURN: Yeah, in the dissolvers. WEISSKOPF: Okay. And what are you doing while that's happening? BLACKBURN: Well, we're going on with the other material. WEISSKOPF: Because there's processes happening farther down the line? BLACKBURN: Oh, yeah. We were going all the time. WEISSKOPF: How many different batches might there be in the building at any one time? You know, from beginning to end? BLACKBURN: Oh, I could say four, five. At least. WEISSKOPF: Interesting. BLACKBURN: Yeah. WEISSKOPF: And the idea being, you only deal with one batch at a time, but once one is started and moved down the line, you could start another one. BLACKBURN: Another one right behind it. See, I had so many operators and so many utility operators. I had an operator on each of the boards, what we called a board. And any movement from one board to --- one tank to another, I had to go unlock. And we were all locked up there. And that was the old-time, I forget what we called them. Anyway, the steam went to them for jetting, and then the air blowed them out to cool them off, and then we locked them up again. So I had a lot of walking. WEISSKOPF: Because it's 800 feet long. Was there a, quote, gauge board for every section down the way? BLACKBURN: Yes. WEISSKOPF: For every two cells? BLACKBURN: I think it was about two cells, because the operator could move from one tank to another. We did a lot of settling work, so the plutonium come up and uranium went down. And then you washed them both, and then of course uranium was --- it was wasted for us at that time, and the plutonium was what was really after there. It was very simple. WEISSKOPF: Were you the top of the heap, then, when operations were going on? Were you the one who had the final say about how the process went? Not chemically, maybe, but just as far as --- BLACKBURN: No, I had a supervisor. Only he sat in the office most of the time. Of course, he would talk to the operators, and things like that. But I did all the running, had the keys, and had to write a book at the end of a shift, and everything like that. WEISSKOPF: The log sheets that I've seen that people would fill out that have the steps listed, and the numbers. BLACKBURN: Yeah, we always had a log. WEISSKOPF: Was the person standing at the gauge board filling that out? BLACKBURN: No, that was me. WEISSKOPF: Okay. But if you had a board --- BLACKBURN: Each area where they had, they had a book that told them just how long to settle, just how much chemical to put in there, and what chemicals to put in. And then the operator had to put in that he did this, and he did that, and he did this, did that. That's the way we run that. WEISSKOPF: And would there be a sheet, then, at every gauge, every panel? BLACKBURN: Oh, yes. It was a book. Actually, it was a book, really. It was, oh, like you see in schools, several pages inside of a book that opened up. WEISSKOPF: Was it difficult keeping track of multiple batches in the building? You might be dissolving one at one end, and --- BLACKBURN: Seems like we had a deal in the office that as it moved along, we moved this thing in the office showing exactly what position we were in all the time. WEISSKOPF: What was your title as you were doing that? BLACKBURN: Chief. WEISSKOPF: Chief operator? BLACKBURN: Chief in T Plant. WEISSKOPF: Of one shift? BLACKBURN: Of one shift, yeah. We had four chiefs. WEISSKOPF: And when the shift changed, you and all the people under you would move out and other guys would move in? BLACKBURN: Went home, yeah. WEISSKOPF: And you would have to tell them where you were in the process? BLACKBURN: Well, yes, we always talked to the other chief when he come in. They always come in about 20 minutes to talk. And he could read what you had put down in the book. And if he had any questions to ask you, well, okay. And before we'd have to run out to get the bus to go to town. WEISSKOPF: Could you describe what --- the gallery where the gauges were was the operating gallery? What do you guys refer to it as? BLACKBURN: How big it was? WEISSKOPF: Well, just what it was like working in there. For example, how many guys would there be all the way down the length of the building while you were processing? BLACKBURN: Oh, we'd have about nine or ten operators, and we'd have two guys that was taking samples, and that would be twelve. WEISSKOPF: Somebody in the crane? BLACKBURN: Oh, yes, we had the crane operator. WEISSKOPF: Was he under your supervision, too? BLACKBURN: No, not necessarily. He was actually, at that time, when I was a chief, him and I was level as far as that goes. Once in a great while I'd go up there during a shift, fool around with the deal, and he'd laugh about it naturally. Them guys was good. WEISSKOPF: You'd look through the periscopes and try to see what it was about? BLACKBURN: Yeah, I hooked on a couple of times. WEISSKOPF: Was it easy? BLACKBURN: No. Not for me. Seemed like it was for them. WEISSKOPF: Do you remember there being a little television screen in the crane cabin? BLACKBURN: Well, everything was done with television. He couldn't see anything. WEISSKOPF: Well, they had periscopes, too. BLACKBURN: Periscopes. WEISSKOPF: But what about television? BLACKBURN: Didn't have television. WEISSKOPF: Okay. Because I read --- and since you were there during construction, there's a couple of pages of descriptions of how DuPont went to RCA and ordered a closed circuit television system that they installed in the cranes in all the separations buildings, and nobody I know remembers seeing them. BLACKBURN: I don't remember seeing them. I never knew there was such a thing as a television. WEISSKOPF: It would have stood out, had you seen it, right? BLACKBURN: Oh, I'm sure it would. WEISSKOPF: Okay. I don't know what happened to it, but DuPont paid for it, and they sort of implied they installed it. That's funny. Okay. So you had nine or ten operators --- BLACKBURN: Well, I had about ten operators. WEISSKOPF: A couple of samplers. BLACKBURN: Two. They were operators. One of them had to be an operator. And then we had people making up chemicals. One operator and probably two utility operators. And then --- WEISSKOPF: Where would they be? BLACKBURN: They were up... WEISSKOPF: The same place? BLACKBURN: No. They were on the same side that the offices were. And we had big tanks back there with all the different kinds of chemicals. Everything. We had nitric all the way from 60% down to 2%, I think it was. And then we had I think about two or else three operators in 224, and a couple of utilities there, too. WEISSKOPF: Were they under your supervision? BLACKBURN: Yes. WEISSKOPF: In the 224 Building as well? BLACKBURN: 224 and 21. It was handled just like --- my same supervisor was supervisor to the 24. WEISSKOPF: Well, how did you --- if you were unlocking and physically having to be in the 221 Building --- BLACKBURN: Didn't have much of that unlocking over there. A couple times a night I went over there and checked out everything that was going on. WEISSKOPF: Do you remember the process of sampling and how often that happened? How important was it? BLACKBURN: Well, real important. The sampling was real important. The samplers, I remember one time when I and Hultgren went in the canyon and took a sample by ourself. Filled up a pot in order to send it. I think we sent that to New Mexico, too, I believe. WEISSKOPF: For special analysis? BLACKBURN: Yeah. WEISSKOPF: And why did you guys do it versus the normal samplers? BLACKBURN: Because we did it sort of out of --- we didn't do it with any RM* or anything. WEISSKOPF: Oh. You sort of snuck in. BLACKBURN: We did things once in a while that wasn't supposed to be done, probably, but we did it. WEISSKOPF: If that was more or less typical, what did you do before you went into the canyon? BLACKBURN: We all had to change clothes to go into the canyon. WEISSKOPF: Wearing air masks then? BLACKBURN: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yes. WEISSKOPF: Going back to a typical sampler, were there times that you always took samples at certain points of the process? BLACKBURN: Oh, yes. WEISSKOPF: So they would know when it was coming up. BLACKBURN: They would know. Well, you could talk to them. See, a lot of times they sat by the phone on the outside of the building there, or in the hallways, things like that. WEISSKOPF: On the canyon side? BLACKBURN: Yeah. WEISSKOPF: Suited up, ready to go in? BLACKBURN: Oh, they were suited all the time for eight hours. WEISSKOPF: Oh. BLACKBURN: Because you never know, every time we got word from the other people of what was going on, why, then we could either move material or do some more washing in the same place. WEISSKOPF: So how many times in one batch would the samplers need to go in, do you think, and take a sample? BLACKBURN: Well, they would practically sample it in each tank. WEISSKOPF: Oh, really. BLACKBURN: I think each tank was sampled, if I remember right. WEISSKOPF: So it would be many times. BLACKBURN: Oh, yes, they took quite a few samples. WEISSKOPF: So a batch took about 24 hours to go through, maybe less? BLACKBURN: Oh, more than that. WEISSKOPF: More than that? BLACKBURN: More than that. I would say one batch would take more than 24 hours to go through. WEISSKOPF: If it started Monday morning, it would be done sometime Tuesday? BLACKBURN: Probably Tuesday. WEISSKOPF: Okay. And in between they'd be taking a dozen samples? BLACKBURN: I'm sure they would. I'm sure they would. They would sample every tank. And if something went wrong with the sample, why, we'd have to resample, like that, you know. WEISSKOPF: And I presume there must have been some pressure on everybody, if you're having to resample? BLACKBURN: Everybody, yeah. They used to hang out, the samplers used to hang out where they run the analysis and stuff, things like that. They didn't have (inaudible)* in the canyon, or anything like that. WEISSKOPF: Would they have to undress, take off their overalls before they went in? BLACKBURN: They had to take off one pair. WEISSKOPF: One pair. BLACKBURN: Yeah. WEISSKOPF: But they kept the other pair on? BLACKBURN: See, they generally had two pairs. WEISSKOPF: So could you describe what it was like? When they knew they had to get a sample, what did they do before they entered the canyon and on in? BLACKBURN: Well, they had to --- we had to call them, and they would pick up their samplers at the lab and go in and take the sample and take it back to the lab. WEISSKOPF: How long would that take, do you think, between when they were notified to when they returned to the lab? BLACKBURN: Oh, probably 15 minutes, 20 minutes sometimes. WEISSKOPF: Was there ever a time when you sampled, and you resampled and realized that something was drastically gone wrong with the batch? BLACKBURN: I don't remember much of that. WEISSKOPF: Did you ever have to dump a batch because something had gone wrong? BLACKBURN: Well, we had to rework a batch. WEISSKOPF: You wouldn't dump it in the waste tanks and be done with it. BLACKBURN: No. WEISSKOPF: You'd always send it back. BLACKBURN: Send it back. You wouldn't want to throw away that plutonium. WEISSKOPF: No. Did you get a lot of pressure when something like that would happen? BLACKBURN: Well, what it did is held back everything behind it. WEISSKOPF: And what other kind of ancillary jobs were there? We mentioned people at the gauges, people mixing chemicals, people sampling. People in the laboratories? BLACKBURN: Oh, yes. WEISSKOPF: Were they also part of your shift? BLACKBURN: No. I didn't --- well, they were the shift, same shift, but they had their own supervision. WEISSKOPF: So your people would take them samples, and they would give you numbers to enter into your logbook? BLACKBURN: Had to come back to our office, our numbers. WEISSKOPF: Okay. And those numbers had to be within a certain range? BLACKBURN: Right. WEISSKOPF: Did you have much leeway with those kinds of things? BLACKBURN: I don't think so. WEISSKOPF: It was all pretty much laid out. BLACKBURN: Yeah. The only chemicals were all run through the labs, too, you know. The chemicals, they made chemicals upstairs in our buildings, and they would do it, each one was made up when you put the chemicals together with the book. And then they'd take a sample of that and send you to the lab. WEISSKOPF: Would they make a whole bunch at one time and keep it in a tank, then have it for many batches? BLACKBURN: Yeah, we had batches. WEISSKOPF: So if you needed nitric acid at a certain level, they would make up a big batch, test it --- BLACKBURN: Big batch, and we'd take just what we needed out of it. But there was so much waste at T Plant. That's why we got the PUREX. WEISSKOPF: And when you say waste, you mean in any given batch. BLACKBURN: The stuff to fill down, to fill the tanks down in the tank farms. I don't know for sure exactly, but I think that PUREX, our waste was about 10% of what T Plant. I'm just guessing that. WEISSKOPF: Well, they weren't getting rid of any of the uranium, right? BLACKBURN: And PUREX we wanted uranium and we wanted plutonium, both. So that wasn't waste. Our uranium went out into a tank, and then we loaded trucks, sent it to U Plant. WEISSKOPF: And at T Plant everything except the plutonium was returned to the waste tanks. BLACKBURN: To the waste tanks, right. WEISSKOPF: Was there a lot of effort to conserve chemicals and to lower the waste as much as possible? Was there much you could do about that? BLACKBURN: You couldn't do that. WEISSKOPF: The process was fixed. BLACKBURN: We went by what they give us to process, yeah. We didn't see much of the big-shots from Chicago until 231. They come out there an awful lot. WEISSKOPF: Really. BLACKBURN: And then we'd have to clean up behind. They'd mess up our room pretty bad. WEISSKOPF: Were they trying to just improve that last step of the process? BLACKBURN: That's right. They were --- well, experimenting; let's say it that way. And they all had different names. They didn't have their regular names when they come. WEISSKOPF: Fermi went under the name of Farmer, I believe. BLACKBURN: Yeah. I don't know, they had all kinds of names that they come out there with. They were very smart. They knew what they were doing. We took their word for it, everything. But we had a lot of cleanup work to do after they left every time. WEISSKOPF: They weren't quite so careful, huh? BLACKBURN: No, not as we had to be. We had to be. And when we shipped everything, everything had to be checked out completely, you know. WEISSKOPF: Let me ask you about the crane operator again, since that was such a key job. BLACKBURN: It was. WEISSKOPF: If you had a problem with some of the piping, say, that had to be replaced or adjusted, how long would it take, once you gave him the command of what needed to be done, how long did it take him to move up and down, take off the cell block covers... BLACKBURN: Oh, we're talking probably an hour, half an hour. WEISSKOPF: To at least get the process started? BLACKBURN: Yeah. He would have to take off the deal. We had some regular cells in the east end of the building, or he'd have to take the deal and then pick up a new one there, bring it in on the flatbeds and stuff like that and take it up. I'd say probably somewheres near an hour, probably. WEISSKOPF: So the pressure was on him, though, right? BLACKBURN: They were pretty good. WEISSKOPF: And what would you do with the equipment you took out, if it was hot? BLACKBURN: Then it went into cells and stayed there. WEISSKOPF: For how long? BLACKBURN: Months. WEISSKOPF: The cells were big enough to hold that kind of thing? BLACKBURN: Oh, you could pile a lot of used stuff in the cells. WEISSKOPF: Do you remember any of it ever being taken out and dealt with? BLACKBURN: Yes. WEISSKOPF: Would they take it out on the train car that brought in the fuel? BLACKBURN: No, no. They brought in flatcars. WEISSKOPF: Into the tunnel? BLACKBURN: Yeah. And we cocooned a lot of stuff before it went to burial. But for a long time all T Plant was operated and things like that, we didn't do any of that. We did more of it afterwards. WEISSKOPF: Because in the early days, I guess, there was pressures to produce, and worry about the details later on. BLACKBURN: That's right. Yeah. *[Start of side A of 2nd tape, not as clear. Echoes. You might want to listen to your tape from this point.]* WEISSKOPF: Describe again, then, about the dissolver. You said you didn't have to empty it between batches? BLACKBURN: Never did. You always leave a bunch. WEISSKOPF: I've heard the word heel* used. Does that ring a bell? Where they would leave something in there. BLACKBURN: Yeah, we always left something. WEISSKOPF: What was the idea of leaving something in there, instead of just finishing one whole batch and emptying it out? BLACKBURN: I don't know why that was. But you always left --- there was always some slugs in there. WEISSKOPF: The first dissolving was to get the aluminum off. BLACKBURN: That's the first thing you did, yeah. WEISSKOPF: And that was like a sodium hydroxide? BLACKBURN: Seemed like we used --- WEISSKOPF: It was like lye almost? BLACKBURN: I thought we used sulfuric. I'm not sure. WEISSKOPF: And would you leave it in the same dissolver for the next step? BLACKBURN: No, no. You jetted that off to the waste. We had to get that out. WEISSKOPF: And what was left was more or less bare aluminum slugs? BLACKBURN: Uranium slugs. Almost the same as we were running in the 300 area. WEISSKOPF: Did you wash them in water or anything in between? BLACKBURN: No. As far as I know, we just took this --- I think we used 60% acid to dissolve it. WEISSKOPF: And once it was dissolved, then you had material to work with. BLACKBURN: Yeah. It never dissolved them all, it just dissolved the top, you might say, and that's what we jetted, jetted out into holding tanks. WEISSKOPF: Could you explain how those jets worked? They weren't pumps, right? BLACKBURN: In some places we used pumps, but most of the places a jet, you had a suction line, and you got a jet here with a certain deal, and you run the steam through that. And when that steam runs through that, it sucks your material right with it. WEISSKOPF: Did it add steam to the material? BLACKBURN: Oh, yes. WEISSKOPF: Okay. BLACKBURN: Oh, yes. WEISSKOPF: So you had to factor that in? BLACKBURN: You had to factor that in, because that was part of your (inaudible)* afterwards. The more steam you used, the more liquid you come up with. WEISSKOPF: How effective was that as a pump? Did it work pretty well? BLACKBURN: Jet is wonderful. Jet is wonderful. WEISSKOPF: No moving parts? BLACKBURN: It just sits right there and you run the steam through your deal. WEISSKOPF: Basically, you could only, I guess, pump so high, because you were working on a vacuum principle, you're sucking it out? BLACKBURN: Just sucking it right out. WEISSKOPF: Okay. Another issue was the dissolvers was where the really dangerous gases were let off. That was sort of the most toxic part of the process? BLACKBURN: Probably. WEISSKOPF: And they ran the exhaust directly out from there to the stack? BLACKBURN: Went to a stack. Of course, all the cells were all made to... WEISSKOPF: I was under the impression that the dissolvers had their own special jet pipes. BLACKBURN: They could have. They could have. WEISSKOPF: Were you also watching what was coming out of the stack during dissolving? BLACKBURN: Sometimes. WEISSKOPF: Was that your job, or was it somebody else? BLACKBURN: That's not my job, no. We had people that worked in maintenance that were supposed to watch some of that kind of stuff. WEISSKOPF: How about the weather report before you were allowed to dissolve? BLACKBURN: Right. WEISSKOPF: How did that come to you? When you knew there was going to be a batch coming in... BLACKBURN: They had their own weather station at Hanford. Every night they sent up a balloon, stuff like that, to get directions and things like that. And we got all our deal right from the... WEISSKOPF: Well, what would you do if they said the weather was going to be bad for two days? BLACKBURN: We didn't do it. WEISSKOPF: What did you do? BLACKBURN: We just didn't. We could move material. WEISSKOPF: The processes were still going. BLACKBURN: We couldn't dissolve. WEISSKOPF: Okay. Was there ever like a 10-day period when you weren't allowed to dissolve? BLACKBURN: I don't remember anything quite that long that I can remember. But there was a lot of days that you couldn't dissolve. WEISSKOPF: But it didn't mean you sat around drinking coffee. BLACKBURN: No, no. We still operated the rest of the building. WEISSKOPF: And you never had to wait so long that the building had no processes going on? BLACKBURN: No. There were some times when we used to flush tanks, clean the tank out completely and bring the metal in. So we didn't dissolve every day. WEISSKOPF: Did the crane operator do a lot of inspections to see that things were okay? How would you know that things weren't leaking, or rusting out, or... BLACKBURN: We had things in our sumps and had a deal showing --- if we had a leak in a cell, a sump told us that we had it. He didn't have to worry about that till we told him. WEISSKOPF: One cell, the supercell* that was real deep, or the collection of cells that was like (inaudible)* deeper than the rest. BLACKBURN: That was a big cell anyway, because there was a lot of stuff put in that. WEISSKOPF: And where would the stuff come from that went into that? BLACKBURN: From the rest of the building. WEISSKOPF: It wasn't from the tanks, it was from spills and things like that? BLACKBURN: It was what we called connectors. It was connectors for stuff that we was transferring from one cell, from one tank to another, and from another cell into that. And if we got a leak, we stopped it immediately when we got a signal. And then the crane operator went and inspected it. (Inaudible)* WEISSKOPF: Where the connector met the well* of the cell, that joint might leak. BLACKBURN: Right. WEISSKOPF: And liquid would go down onto the cell floor. BLACKBURN: Right down into the sump, see. WEISSKOPF: And a drain that went all the way down. BLACKBURN: We always had sumps in there. WEISSKOPF: Was there a drain from that sump down to that supercell*? BLACKBURN: I believe that we were able to jet a sump out of there into a tank. WEISSKOPF: Your discretion? BLACKBURN: Yeah. Yeah. That's the only way we did it. WEISSKOPF: The normal waste, the uranium waste, was sent out in a pipe. BLACKBURN: All the way out, and just went right down to the --- WEISSKOPF: Only if that pipe leaked would anything end up in the cell itself. The cells were to remain dry at all times if possible. BLACKBURN: Supposedly, yeah. WEISSKOPF: And did you hose down the cell if there was a leak? BLACKBURN: They were hosed. They were hosed. WEISSKOPF: Did guys do it or did the crane operator do it? BLACKBURN: If I remember right, the crane operator did it. WEISSKOPF: Would go hose out the cell? BLACKBURN: Yeah. See, at that time we couldn't fool around regasketing anything. Didn't know how, I guess, to regasket. When we got to PUREX, we were able to regasket a lot of stuff. I don't know why, but the guys could do it. WEISSKOPF: I could see either way, because taking off the gasket and putting one on doesn't sound difficult, but it depends, I guess. BLACKBURN: It depends. At T Plant we didn't think you could do that. WEISSKOPF: Do you remember near the end of construction at T Plant when they had to go through and replace a lot of gaskets before the plant started up? BLACKBURN: I'm sure they did that. WEISSKOPF: Supposedly they were using Teflon gaskets. BLACKBURN: The wrong gaskets or something. WEISSKOPF: And when the impact wrench tightened them down, it was too much for them. BLACKBURN: Yeah. WEISSKOPF: So they went to a different kind of gasket. BLACKBURN: I heard about that. I didn't see any of it. (End of interview) Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:41:21 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 128kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gardner Clark "G.C." Blackburn Subject The topic of the resource Hanford Atomic Products Operation Description An account of the resource An oral history interview with Gardner Clark "G.C." Blackburn conducted by Gene Weisskopf for the B Reactor Museum Association as part of an interview series focused on the T Plant and writing a Historic American Engineering Record (HAER) document for the T Plant. Blackburn was a carpentry foreman in the 200 West area. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource B Reactor Museum Association Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 11/17/1999 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3 Language A language of the resource English Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG2D_4B https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/omeka-hhp%2Foriginal%2F2ec3238c3bc573350fa2b4c2ae60639e.MP3 a8ab0541ed6f323b26fe0e8436530321 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource B Reactor Museum Association Oral Histories Description An account of the resource Oral History Interviews conducted by the B Reactor Museum Association. The collection is split between a series of audio oral histories taken in the late 1990s and early 2000s by Gene Weisskopf that focuses on the T-Plant, and a series of video oral histories done in the early 1990s by Bill Putman that focus on the B Reactor and Hanford construction. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3, DOCX Language A language of the resource English Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this collection should contact the Hanford History Project at ourhanfordhistory@tricity.wsu.edu, who can provide specific rights information for these items. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Gene Weisskopf Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed William Kenneth "Mac" MacReady Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Weisskopf: This is the BRMA interview with Mac MacCready at his home in Kennewick, Washington, November 19, 1999. MacCready: ...As a consequence, my recovery period, I still was bedridden for quite a while, and so books were something that my mother could give me. Little books in those days, of course. But that got me interested in it. And we had a library that had a children’s area for kids up to 12, and when I was up and around again I went down there and so on, and I continued to do that when I got beyond that in the library. And I got a book, interestingly enough, because it is significant, I don’t remember its name or the author’s name now. But I got a book which talked about the field of chemistry, and a major degree of its presentation of the thing short biographies of some significant people in chemistry, and particularly those in the 1800s, and it was quite fascinating. Weisskopf: Was it written for kids? MacCready: Hmm? Weisskopf: It was sort of written for kids? MacCready: No, it wasn’t. This was --- I was about 13 when I came across this, 13 or 14, so it was an upstairs book. But at any rate, it stimulated my interest. So I read some more stuff, and of course it was only a couple years later that I was able to take chemistry in high school. And it happened so that the teacher we had was a guy who had been a professional out working for some of the processors of lead and zinc. There were a lot of mines of that sort in southwest Missouri then. And this, see, was --- well, the mining and milling was moving away from Joplin as they started getting stuff farther away. So this guy had lost his job, and he had hooked on to the high school as a teacher. So, to my mind at least, as I look back on it, he was probably better fitted to teach me well and to keep my interest at a high level. Weisskopf: Because he had real-world experience? MacCready: Yeah. Yeah. So at any rate, I took the course, and had fun with it, and enjoyed it, and obviously talked with him about it beyond the class. And so as a consequence, then, in my senior year of high school, he let me use the high school laboratory when it was not actually being used for his classes. What I really did, he gave his books, and I did what was the normal lab work for beginning chemistry in college. I got that all done in high school. So it was that --- I had the interest, then I got an opportunity to do some of the things and to learn more and found it still very interesting. So that was it. When I went to the university, at the time, as far as I know, there were two universities in the United States that had specifically set aside chemistry departments with their own names and such like. One of them was Penn State and the other was the University of Alabama. And it happened so that in the normal events of my personal life that I wound up in Alabama’s area, went over and looked at the university in the summer and liked the looks, so that was where I entered school. I didn’t know this, but it was about the infrequency of having separate university entities that were significantly dedicated to chemistry, but I learned that later. So I had a good university and I had a good faculty. And it was, as you might imagine, it was not --- the university had a total population of about 5,000, 5500 then, and as you might imagine, our chemistry department was relatively small. Of course, it didn’t do chemistry work for a whole lot of other than its own people in the general chemistry field, but we had about 120 people that were in there. Weisskopf: As chem majors? MacCready: Well, yeah, we were enrolled in the School of Chemistry, Metallurgy and Ceramics. Weisskopf: That was the formal name of it? MacCready: Yes. Weisskopf: School of Chemistry, Metallurgy... MacCready: And Ceramics. And after the first two years, your focus split. One way, you went to more advanced chemistry the last two years, and if you went the other way, you went into more in-depth education in metallurgy and ceramics. Of course, I went the one way. But with those kinds of associations, see, we had our building, so we saw our professors at times other than just in class, around the halls and such like. In the libraries and so on. So we had a whole lot more attention than you would normally have and that people do now, and it was an excellent education. And it also happened so that it kind of was the avenue which gave me my job, my opportunity to have a job with DuPont. Weisskopf: What year did you --- you graduated with a degree in chemistry, then? MacCready: I graduated in 1934 with a BS. I stayed on another year and got a master’s degree. I was not feeling the essentiality of having another year at the university, but in the middle part of my senior year I came upon a lady. And since that was, what, four months perhaps until the semester was over and I was graduating, if I was going to eat I had to do something, but I would like to do something that would make it possible to continue to see her. So I talked with the dean about the fact that I would like to stay on and get a master’s degree, but money problems would be noticeable, was there anything he could do about it. And he came up with something. He put together a job for me that would give me about half of the necessary money to go through, and I had to fund. Then in the summertime before I really started on that job. I was there, and I started my master’s work immediately after the spring term was over. And so during that period I did all the business of cleaning up the labs, stocking up and --- Weisskopf: That was the job they were paying you for? MacCready: That was the job that I wound up doing, was being the guy in charge of all the equipment storage and the material storage and getting it around to the laboratories, and such like. The summer, the last three or four weeks, I did nothing for a 12- or 14-hour day except wash laboratory equipment. I cleaned everything up and got it stacked back where it had to be for the start of the season. I got the --- I think I got 35 cents an hour then, and I made quite a lot of money even at that. So, at any rate, that was what happened. And then because of that, in all honesty, I got the master’s degree. Weisskopf: What was the thesis or the theme of your master’s? MacCready: We had a professor who had developed an electrolytic method of analysis for iron, steel, and that sort. All of the businesses were trying to get quantitative analyses of things involving iron or steel. None of them --- there were three or four different ones. There were two others particularly that were the most commonly in use, and they depended upon the business of a color change when you got to the end point. And it was, both of them, it was a pretty delicate change, and if the light was just about so, that --- so, at any rate, he felt that there was significant use for this. But in order to have an opportunity to present it in what he felt would be a controlling fashion, he needed to have a lot of work done in terms of doing the kinds of tests to determine quantities and such like that would normally be used using his system and develop a whole cadre of information as to how efficient it was versus these others, time and all that sort of stuff and so on. So that’s what I did, I ran that and the other thing and fiddled around with it. And it turned out to be very effective in terms of the ultimate, when I did my last test and such like, I of course demonstrated to them. And when you can see what you’ve got in the way of results in terms of the color changes versus this thing, which when it hit the thing a needle went off scale. So it was not a tremendous thing in terms of basic chemistry, it was really fundamentally largely a matter of development of instrumentation that was more useful (inaudible), and I was happy to do it. Weisskopf: Okay. And that took a year, then, at the college? MacCready: Yeah. It meant that I went through and graduated at the normal time in spring or early summer in 1935. And at the time that I graduated, I and a boy that was graduating as a senior, we were the only two from the graduating classes that immediately got a job. The dean had an outfit over in Mississippi that would take us on. Of course, now, this was 1935. Jobs weren’t easy to come by. So I went over and worked there for about two months. Then I learned --- well, my job was pretty straightforward, it was just ordinary chemical testing, really, (inaudible) to process. It was a place that made various kinds of wallboard, and I got to know about the processes, and I got to know about the people and so on. And they had about four or five different segments, each one of which had a supervisor who was in charge of (inaudible) set of equipment, and operators, and so on. And then besides that, then he got the top stairs where you had the manager and assistant manager. So I’d been there about two months. I’d gathered enough information to know something that I thought was significant. They had one guy who was the supervisor of the most difficult of processes, and he was the guy that everybody talked about. He was the guy that just had a phenomenol career, and he was only 27 or 28 years old, and he was making $120 a month. And nobody in history has ever moved so fast or got so much money. So I said huh-uh, there’s no future here. So I did the unspeakable for 1935: I quit. And in the meanwhile, of course, early in the time when I’d got over there, I’d gotten the stupendous application form from DuPont, which had been arranged by the dean, and I filled that out and sent it in, and so on. I proceeded to drive back over to my fiancee’s home to inform her and her parents that I’d quit. And my father-in-law to be understood, because he had done similar things himself. Actually, he had a pretty good in with a local chemistry company there in Anniston, Alabama. And I went down there and got an interview and did get assurance that I could have a job there. I think it was a day or two later that I got this thing in the mail from DuPont to come up for an interview on thus and so day, two or three days later. Weisskopf: How far? Were you going back to Wilmington? MacCready: The letter came from I think Wilmington, perhaps, or maybe it came from New Jersey, because what I was told was to come up and have --- they gave me all the physical explanations of how to get there, that I was going to be going into Wilmington, and from Wilmington I would cross the river to the dye works plant where I would have my interview. So I did that. As a consequence of that, before I left, I had the job. And also two very positive elements of appreciation for the company. One was that at the close of the thing, when I was to go on, leave, the guy I was interviewing with said “Just a few minutes. I’m having a check made out for you to cover your expenses coming up here and going back home.” I hadn’t thought of that. It helped. The other thing was that, remembering now my experience over in Mississippi, he informed me that I would start at $135 a month. Weisskopf: And what had you been making, do you think? MacCready: The job that I had over in Mississippi I was making $75 a month. And that guy that was the genius was making $120 a month. Here I was going to start my job at $15 better than him. Weisskopf: That’s great. MacCready: So that was fine. That set the stage for some very considerable activity. I got home, I got to the soon-to-be parents home, a week later, on a Sunday, my fiancée and I stood in front of her parents’ fireplace, and a minister, and we got married. Thirty minutes later we were on the train to Wilmington. Weisskopf: So you had a job and a wife and a new town? MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: Both of you were new to Wilmington? MacCready: Oh, yeah. Of course, Wilmington was simply where you got to on the train. Then we had to get over into New Jersey and find a place to live. Weisskopf: Why New Jersey? MacCready: Because we were going to work at this dye works where I had been interviewed, and they were in New Jersey. Weisskopf: And how soon after did you start work? You got married on a Sunday, left on the train the next day? MacCready: Yeah. The combination of circumstances, got there, and me and (inaudible) went to work in about two weeks. We had two weeks to find a place to live and get some furniture to put in it, a few other odds and ends. So that was part of the deal. They didn’t give us any extra money for that, but they said that you can have a couple of weeks to kind of get yourself settled in somewhere before you report to work. Weisskopf: And that was then in 1935? MacCready: Yes. Weisskopf: About what time of year, do you think? MacCready: That was in, well, October, the fall. Weisskopf: Okay. Well, maybe we should fast forward a bit. How about this: At DuPont, did you spend more time in the lab or an office? MacCready: No. DuPont, the system that they had, I went in and I went to work in the laboratory that served --- they had Jackson Laboratory there where they did research. And for the people in Jackson Lab, the normal just basic information in the way of running tests and all such in their research, the run-of-the-mill analyses were done in this laboratory that I went to work in. There were about --- there was room for, and it was always one way or another filled up, there were about 30 of us that worked in that laboratory. And one, by the time a year had gone by, one knew that fundamentally they were getting something done that they needed. But this was really a test area. You learned things about the people and determined what they might want to direct them towards, anywhere from going over to the laboratory, their research laboratory, or whatever, whatever, or out the door. And pretty much, at the time I was there, at least, usually you would make a move in not more than a year. I had my interview after I had been there about eight months. And the fellow who ran the lab was more this kind of a person, an analytical person with respect to people than he was a full-time runner of the lab, which was pretty automatic anyway. He says “Well, what do you want to do?” And I said “Well, I always kind of have ideas for research work.” And he said “Well, there’s not anything of that nature that you can get into too logically and too significantly. And,” he said, “there’s some other things that we think you would fit into in our pattern of activities better. So would you accept our belief on that, at least to the extent of trying the job that we propose to give you?” “Sure.” So that resulted in my being given the supervision of a field laboratory. Most all of the individual major elements at the dye works, made this, that and the other, most of them had a field labs to get, you know, routine laboratory work done right on the spot. So I had four guys so that we could --- because since the plant ran 24 hours a day, we needed to cover them 24 hours a day. Four people. I accomplished that with one guy on .... (Tape ran out) MacCready: So I became a supervisor there. And after six months or so they had an idea, probably came out of the laboratory, that there was a way that they could maybe cut one stop out of the process by which they were making camphor. They needed to get some information about the possibilities of something that in effect was really using --- well, they didn’t know exactly what they would --- they thought that if they could get intimate association of a solvent and this stuff that was coming out of, let’s say, item B in their list of things, that it would permit them to go from B to D and X out C. So I had had a little experience in the university, and at their suggestion that I did know something about that, they got me the stuff that I put together one of these laboratory columns with little glass rings in it which gave you the opportunity to have the effect in a big plant, maybe a column 20 feet long, and I had a column this big around that was three feet along. At any rate, I ran through enough stuff there to get the indication that yes, there was a combination of times and exposures that ought to do the trick. I remember this particularly well, because as a consequence of that, they cobbled together the necessary equipment to, as best they knew how, translate my results into the plant results. And because I had done that, I had the information, you know, about some of the times and some of the indications that you can check on, and so on. So they were going to start a test run one afternoon at four o’clock, and they were going to run the thing 24 hours, and I was to be there all the 24 hours to check at critical points to see if what I thought should have happened in my lifetime was indeed happening, and so on and so on and so on. So we did it that way, and so we went through our 24 hours, and we came out with the fact that yes, it actually worked, did the trick. So that was kind of a nice thing. There was only one minor hitch about it. The four o’clock we started was four o’clock the day before Thanksgiving, so I got home Thanksgiving between four and five o’clock Thanksgiving evening. Weisskopf: A memorable one, then, right? MacCready: Yeah. But it worked beautifully. That was the only thing, other than the norm of running the system, thing that came along for me. After about a year, year and a half, they were getting on to --- they had started construction on another ethyl chloride plant. They had one. It happened so it was right next door to where my lab was, but I hadn’t spent any time over there. At any rate, I got transferred, along with an old veteran operator who was going to be the general foreman for the plant. And they sent us down there and said “Now, we want you to look after what’s going on in the construction, thinking always in terms of what you all will need best to serve you well in operating the thing.” So we of course learned our chemistry for this thing, and we learned what their plans were, and then we tried to visualize and help in this respect. And I don’t know how good a job we did, but it was the first time I was involved in that, and I certainly learned a lot out of it. A good bit of it, maybe, I learned that you don’t do it the way I had done it, you do it a different way next time. But it happened so that we had a little byproduct outfit we were going to build and run, and so we did the same thing for that. And then we had a --- we thought up and cobbled up a little affair so you can do some more recovery of what was otherwise waste. And then about then we put in a plant to process the sodium sulfate that we got as a byproduct. And if you fixed that up, got it down to sodium sulfate, you could sell that to the paper mill people. So we built that, and we followed that. And by that time, I’d been exposed pretty well to this business of looking at plants with the idea in mind that you’re going to have to operate them. Weisskopf: It sounds familiar to me for what comes later, the idea of taking laboratory experience and blowing it up into a large factory. MacCready: Right. Weisskopf: Interesting. MacCready: So, after that --- well, get a little quicker about it. The war period came along, and I got transferred up to the semiworks that they had put in place to learn some of the hows and whys of the processes to make the explosive that wound up ultimately, when it was made and put to use, being the one that they used so effectively in Europe to do --- well, literally, it was this stuff you could wrap a string of it around a railroad --- Weisskopf: Oh. Sometimes called plastique, or something like that? MacCready: Yeah, uh-huh. Weisskopf: Was there a technical term for it? MacCready: Oh, it had a technical name. Weisskopf: What did you call it at work, other than “the stuff”? MacCready: I don’t remember. Weisskopf: Was it primarily an explosive, but also the way it could be handled? MacCready: Yeah, that was it. It came out in about the consistency of dough. And one of the beautiful things was that literally you could cut a railroad piece in two now, just to cut the grill out a quarter of an inch wide. Well, that was one of the things that the French Underground folks used wonderfully well, tearing up railroads. Weisskopf: Okay. MacCready: They didn’t tear them up, they just fixed them up so that when the trains went over them, the track tore off. Weisskopf: So it did double duty, then, yeah. MacCready: Yeah. So I stayed there learning about that. And the way we learned, of course, we were running this little semiworks thing, and they were also starting work on the main plant. So the people were being transferred out, and I wound up being the guy who stayed there and finished shutting up the semiworks. Weisskopf: Can you describe, then, the difference between what semiworks was compared to the lab and compared to the ultimate plant that was built? MacCready: Okay. Weisskopf: It was producing a usable product, or was it not --- MacCready: Yes. Yes. Weisskopf: It was just shipping out a product? MacCready: Yeah. It was making the product, and it was, oh, it was putting out what I would say would be --- well, let’s say that if it operated a shift, it would put out about a tenth as much product as one line in the major plant. Weisskopf: One line? MacCready: One line, and in that plant I think we had six lines. Weisskopf: But it was nonetheless --- MacCready: Compared to what, you know, like what I was doing in the laboratory, that would have been maybe 1% of what it would have. Weisskopf: How long do you think that semiworks operated? MacCready: I think it operated just about a year. I was there about six or seven months. Weisskopf: So they must have been building the factory --- MacCready: They started, yeah. Weisskopf: --- during that year. MacCready: That’s right. When I got there, I was there in time to have some association with, say, the last quarter of the construction of the place. And I did some of the same kind of thing with them. And I stayed there for, well, let’s see...in total, I guess I stayed there about eight or ten months. Weisskopf: At the semiworks? MacCready: No. No, after I left the semiworks. I was at semiworks I think six or seven months, something like that. And then I was about eight months or so at the Wabash (inaudible) which was where this plant was, how this plant was named. And then I came what at the time was a major tragedy. It seems that there was a real significant shortage of supervisory help back at the dye works, and the guy who had that and had the ethyl chloride plant as part of his responsibility had sent out word that he wanted me back. So I came back, and I wasn’t happy. Weisskopf: Did that involve a move, living in your house, or were you still living in New Jersey? MacCready: No, no, we had left and were living in a house in --- well, actually in Illinois, right across the border. This plant was in Indiana. So, yeah, we --- we had not moved all of our stuff in, because it was that sort a time. At any rate, I came back, and I wasn’t happy. And that was about the first thing I told the man when I got back, that I was not happy, that I didn’t want to --- because what he wanted me to do was to supervise the old ethyl chloride plant, and that I was no longer in the position of feeling my particular interest in or benefit from another turn of supervising the ethyl chloride plant. He said well, we were really at a critical stage, we needed somebody that we know was familiar with that kind of process. But he said “I promise in a year we’ll get you someplace else.” And so far as I know, he was as good as his word, because a year later was when I was transferred to the Manhattan District. And from then, of course, you know, went through the business of going to Oak Ridge, and --- Weisskopf: Well, let me ask you this: First of all, what year was it that DuPont asked you to do that? That was in ‘43 still? MacCready: To go where? Weisskopf: To join that project. MacCready: Which one? Weisskopf: The Manhattan Project. MacCready: That would have been January the 2nd of 1944. Weisskopf: Yes, okay. Because you didn’t come out until April of ‘44. MacCready: That’s right. Weisskopf: Okay. Do you remember how they presented it to you, since it was still kind of top secret and you might have said no? MacCready: Yeah, I think there were several of us that reported in at that time, and as I recall we got sat down and got about an hour’s worth of lecture to get the big picture, and then were given documents to get more detail. And I spent a month there reading and attending some meetings when we would get together and talk about things in general. Weisskopf: Was this in Wilmington? MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: Okay. So I guess this was when things were rolling right along at Hanford, and you were sort of jumping in in the middle of the process as opposed to the very beginning stages of it. MacCready: Well, it’s hard to say, because everything really, in terms of everything except the preparatory work and the whole digging underground, underneath concrete work, only those things had actually occurred by the time I got out here in April. Weisskopf: The walls weren’t up? MacCready: No. They were just getting above ground level on T when I got out here. So in terms of the business of building of the thing, association with building of the thing, the only thing that had occurred was this basic business of the concrete footings for T. And, of course, similarly for other (inaudible). So what we did in the way of the construction checking, starting then that it really came into detail work about late May. We were getting the place then where we really had to pay attention to what was going on. Weisskopf: In your history, you mentioned that there were really only two people sent out from Wilmington to act as construction checkers? MacCready: Insofar as the 200 area was concerned, yeah. Ken Millan (phonetic) was sent out in January, I think it was, and then I came in April. This was about the time that things were really getting to the serious part. Ken moved in town to do some things there, and I was --- I was the only one ever beyond that. Ken and me, we were the only ones ever that had the actual situation where we were officially denominated as such and presented to the construction supervision and management as the official consultant. Weisskopf: I guess there were similar people in the 100 area? MacCready: I assume so, but I do not know. Weisskopf: You weren’t supposed to know, right? MacCready: Well, there was no reason why I should know, and I had no reason to go there. I didn’t go over there during any of their construction. One of the things that, as I look back, that made what I did easier was because it did officially get presented and accepted by the construction management before they or we were getting to any of this more complicated stuff, so by the time we did, I had been around, and I had been talking with, and we had gotten well acquainted, and I had done enough things that were helpful that I had a platform to work from when I had to get more and more of my nose into things that would otherwise have been the case. And we never had trouble of that sort. I don’t know, another thing maybe that had something to do with it, just as was true of myself and the guys who were ultimately coming out to go through with me and on, become supervisors, we were all young, and so were the supervisors and managers for construction. Let’s see, at the time that I came out, I was 31, and I recall a guy who was in charge for construction of T Plant was 27. Weisskopf: And how did that affect your relationship? MacCready: Well, I think it was easier for us. We had not, either one, got into any different patterns, so that what we were proposing to have as a pattern here was being asked to do something strange compared to what we had done before. This, I’m sure, was the first job of anything approaching this magnitude that this guy had had. The same thing was true for me. Weisskopf: Because you mention in your history that it was an important relationship between the designers and the people who were supervising construction and the crafts people who were actually doing it. MacCready: Right. Weisskopf: And it was a delicate balance --- MacCready: That’s right. Weisskopf: --- that you had to interact with. MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: And would you talk to all of them, or would you have a chain of command that you would try to work with? MacCready: With respect to the supervision of construction --- well, it sounds a little silly now, in a sense, but it was true, and it’s the way it worked. There were interchanges of information in between my field guys, as we were, you know, things like finishing off all the piping, and so on, in T, and so on. But as they were working on the jobs, they would talk of course with the construction people that were working there at the same time, but there was never any exchange of official knowledge, or orders, or requests or anything that went from us to construction or design or anybody else except through me. That was one thing that I knew when I started. Weisskopf: So people who were working for you and with you, they filtered their information or requests through you. MacCready: That’s right, yeah. If they thought they saw something that was wrong, they said it to me, and I said it out there. I was sure in my own mind, as things were developing, that that was something that I must set up, that we could have nothing except chaos if I left all of my guys --- Weisskopf: Saying it in their own way, their own emphasis, style. MacCready: Just God knows who, yeah. So that was a hard and fast rule. Weisskopf: And this allowed you to keep track of everything in one place and present it in the same way you presented it the previous time. MacCready: Yeah. And it worked fine. Weisskopf: And it took the responsibility off the guys working under you --- MacCready: Sure. Weisskopf: --- not to have to be the bad guy. MacCready: That’s right, yeah. They simply could do their looking, and there were some --- as we got into some of the fine stuff, you know, like I think I mentioned all of those multiple lines coming into the cells, actually my counterpart in T early on --- well, not early on, when we got to that, said that we I think better decide to have you send your people in to work with mine on every damn one of these, because they know more about where it has to be, and so on and so on, than our people do, and why they have to be there, because we don’t know that. And I said yes. So we did. In those kind of jobs, the people would work together, and it didn’t matter which they were, they were working together doing it, but there was nothing under --- nothing like any “No, that’s wrong,” or that sort. They were doing it. In that respect, we all depended on our guys and their guys on each one of those jobs doing it right, in other words. Weisskopf: Interesting. The tape is almost finished. Should we take a short break, maybe? (Short break) MacCready: Something that I think is significant in what I did and how I did it. As you know by now, the things, particularly with respect to the Hanford situation in those early days that I was involved with, had great emphasis, or attention to, awareness of, an understanding of, not the processes but the equipment. And very early on, when I got out into the plant at the dye works, more of the things you had to pay attention to, work with to see that they behaved properly, were equipment problems rather than process problems. In other words, let us say this was more chemical engineering than chemistry. I was educated as a chemist. I was not educated as an engineer. But I had a rare opportunity there. The dye works had been in existence for about 20 years, and they had large central shops, and they also had small groups of maintenance, mechanics, in most all of the individual plants. So I had the opportunity, necessarily, to work on those kinds of things in association with these veteran craftsmen who had been through, by then, most of them, 15, 20 years or more of handling the equipment. So I learned my engineering from the craftsmen. And I think it was doubly important. It was important because I learned it at a fundamental level, but it was also important then, and really I think became more important in later years, because as a consequence of that, I think I always had a greater understanding of the interests and attitudes and approaches of the working stiffs. Weisskopf: Who actually had to use the equipment, and monitor it, and maintain it. MacCready: Right, yeah. Weisskopf: Would you say that the chemistry side of things, that you were trained in, was always done in the purely mathematical sense ahead of time, on paper, and then you would try and make it happen in the lab, right? MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: And the closer you got to your mathematical calculations, the more accurate you assumed was your equipment and process. MacCready: Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing, too, that certainly was true and certainly grew in my mind, was that in the long run, and all of it, the most important thing was getting it done, and the full cooperation of the people was the only way that could happen. Weisskopf: You couldn’t be a snooty chemist back in the lab telling them how to get things done, right? MacCready: Yeah. It was easy for me to --- I think that old boy back in Jacksonville lab had taken --- he’d taken his readings, and basically what he was saying and the way he sent me out and told the people out there about me was that he can get things done with people. And as I look back on it, that’s been about it. Weisskopf: Just cooperating with the rest of the people involved in the project, and making it happen? MacCready: Well, and more particularly the fact that the people in the work force could understand me better than they could an awful lot of their supervisors and managers, and I could watch some of the guys working as supervisors and managers and understand that. They didn’t know how to get along with people. They didn’t know how to make an opportunity for those people to be happy and satisfied. Weisskopf: Isn’t it the nature of a chemist, though, to do the elegant work in the lab, have papers that show how it’s all going to work --- MacCready: Sure. Weisskopf: --- and then get frustrated when they can’t build a factory that actually makes it happen? MacCready: I don’t know about that, how they feel about that. They do, though, you know, they have a hard time, getting away from the --- if they are working with other people, highly trained chemists, they probably can get along much better. But the bulk of the people who are doing the job in any field of activity are not --- it’s not at that level. Once you get out of being in a research atmosphere, it’s one of the classic things. Security, of course, was always tight. And after the bomb was --- even before that. And one of the great stories was one evening --- you know, you couldn’t take anything out that wasn’t examined by the guy when you’re leaving the area. And if you had your lunch bucket, or something, you had to show him. And if you had any kind of package, you had to show him. And one of the guys who was in essence in research, working process-wise, was out there, and he had, in addition to his lunch bucket, he had a sack. One of the guys stopped him. He opened up his lunch bucket and showed him, and that was fine, and then started to go, and “No, what’s in the sack?” And I guess that was just enough to irritate him. “Well, look for yourself.” The only trouble was, the window wasn’t open. Weisskopf: He threw it through the window? MacCready: No. I don’t know, I think he had a jar or something in there, and he broke it and probably spilled some juice or something. Weisskopf: And how did security affect your construction checking, when theoretically you were checking all sorts of different processes that maybe some people only knew parts of? MacCready: Security didn’t have any --- theirs was strictly a matter of physical situation. Security people didn’t run around anywhere in the --- Weisskopf: No. But you still had to follow certain rules and ways of doing things as far as what you could talk about with other workers? MacCready: Well, that was something that came from the top early on, when you reported in. Long since, you just didn’t do that. Weisskopf: You had to look at plans, right, during this checking process? Blueprints? MacCready: Oh, sure. Weisskopf: And yet a lot of the people you worked with might not have seen those blueprints, might not know the entire process of the building? MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: But you could just work with them on their one area of concern? MacCready: You mean the checkers? Weisskopf: Yeah. MacCready: The people working for me on the --- Weisskopf: Sure. MacCready: --- checks? Yeah. Well, see, once we got sizeable activities and really were getting into all of the multitudinous details, that was when I had always the Monday morning get-together, and people were assigned their particular area to look after for that week or until it was finished, and they could report that in. And things were moving so fast that I had those meetings weekly, and people would finish up on one thing and they’d be doing another, and so on. So on that basis, see, they took with them, or they looked at the prints that had to do with that particular area that they were involved with to be --- that was just the way it worked. Of course, all along we had, in the earlier stages, we had lots of time for the people reporting in then to keep burying their nose in the prints. Well, by the same token, the people who were coming in from Oak Ridge had probably spent the last month that they were there with their nose in the prints. So they had a pretty general understanding of things, and you could assign segments to them and they knew how to find the right stuff to look at. Weisskopf: Okay. Did the people who worked under you, how much understanding did they have of what, say, one of the canyon buildings was supposed to do? MacCready: You mean my --- Weisskopf: The actual checkers. MacCready: My construction? Weisskopf: Yeah. MacCready: My construction checkers were people who were going to be supervisors, and they knew the project. They knew the whole process. They did not work in the dark, no. Weisskopf: Okay. And one of the critical checking jobs, as I understood it, was checking the piping that would go to all the cells before it got filled up with concrete. MacCready: (inaudible). Weisskopf: Number one, they couldn’t have blueprints out on the job, could they? How did they check the actual piping against the plan that was needed? MacCready: There would be one out there that the construction people were using. Weisskopf: Well, the stories I keep hearing is all the plans were locked up and a foreman would have to go in, look at it, take notes, and come back out again. Maybe that was in general. MacCready: That was in general, yeah. But for something specific, highly detailed thing like that in a small area, yeah, they would only need one blueprint to do it. Weisskopf: Right. Okay. What sort of things would they check? When they’re getting ready to pour concrete, what would be the things they would want to check? Specifically concerning the in-wall piping that went to the cells. MacCready: They would want to check each one of those multitudinous lines from where it started to where it went, because they had had to start in the right place and go to the right place. Weisskopf: How would they do that, by the way? How do you check and see if the end of the pipe that’s 60 feet over there matches this pipe here? Do you blow through it, or run something through it? MacCready: There’s ways of that nature, yeah. I think you would say it would vary. Some of the things would be where you could literally follow them. It may be 60 feet, but it’s 60 feet where you can keep your eyeball on it without too much trouble. And then there would be others, particularly some of the (inaudible) rascals where you would have a hell of a time, but you would pretty much have to follow it physically to be sure. There’s nothing on the print that would assure you about that, it will simply assure you that it’s going from there to there, but they are not going to show, of course, the thing, as you say, if it’s many feet long. So you literally did have to follow them. I suspect, I don’t know all that the kids used, I suspect some of them, they may have run things through, but mostly I think they just physically followed them. Weisskopf: And were there fittings and joints that would be imbedded in concrete? Did you pressure check the lines before you poured concrete? Was that part of it? MacCready: Yeah. Yeah. They would --- I think they would probably have used a final stage, when they had followed all of them, of having a water run and see to it. Then they could tell when they started there, they were supposed to come out there, and they could see. If it did, then that was --- Weisskopf: That would be visual proof. MacCready: That was the final check. And, as you say, I think they probably used some pressure testing, shutting them up and loading in 20, 30 pounds of air to get a check. Weisskopf: Let me ask you this: You also ran tests just before startup. Do you remember anybody having to tear in the concrete to fix a pipe? MacCready: No. Weisskopf: Really? MacCready: No. Weisskopf: Out of all those hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of --- MacCready: No. See, they had been checked so many times before then, that no. No, there was never any of that. Weisskopf: That surprises me, because, what, each cell had, what, 40-some-odd pipes coming into it? MacCready: Yeah, 42 I think it was. Weisskopf: And there were 40 cells. MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: And there was pipe also doing the same thing in the pipe trench, there were all the connectors coming into there? MacCready: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Weisskopf: Boy. Did you find out when the building was done that there were two pipes that had been switched by accident? Did that occur? MacCready: Not that late, no. There were some occasions of that sort --- Weisskopf: Which construction check --- MacCready: --- during the earlier stages of the thing, when construction check found them. Probably the most embarrassing one to the draftsman was one that occurred in T Plant towards the head end. I remember the geography all that closely. But at any rate, there was a pipe up there that was supposed to carry acid from one of the tanks out there operating for --- into something in the head end, and it was an acid of some kind, probably sulfuric acid, at a guess. At any rate, acid of some sort. And the check that was done with respect to that came upon the fact that this line had somehow got itself hooked in so that it was in the line that fed the tank on the stool in the bathroom that was on the front end of the plant. That kind of tore the thing. Weisskopf: What would the result have been had it been left? Would the toilet have come out of the pipe or would the acid have headed towards the toilet? MacCready: The acid would have headed towards the toilet. Weisskopf: That would have been embarrassing. MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: Okay. But the construction checkers discovered that and it was then fixed. MacCready: Oh, yes. Weisskopf: Which was the whole point of doing the construction checks. MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: So it sounds like the construction checking did its job, found a few problems, ensured that everything was where it was supposed to be. When the plant was ready to start up, you went through a series of testing not just the joints, but flushing and --- MacCready: The first thing you did was you had what’s called a water run. In other words, you went through all of the steps that you would go through in processing, but just using water so that you could check for whether it was going where it was supposed to go and when it was supposed to. Weisskopf: And was that done under pressure and heat and all the normal things? MacCready: No, it was just done --- the only thing was to see that it --- that there were no leaks, and that it was starting from the right place and going to the right place according to what your instrumentation said should be happening. Weisskopf: Any idea, off the top of your head, how many individual pipes there might have been in that entire building that would have done individual jobs during the process? MacCready: Gee. Weisskopf: It would be an astronomical number, I presume. MacCready: Yes. Weisskopf: Whether it was feeding acid, or moving material, or bringing in steam, electricity. MacCready: Or being hitched up to instruments. Weisskopf: It might be an impossible question, without really sitting down and counting. MacCready: Well, about the only thing I --- I don’t know --- nominally, there of course was as many connections to something or other as there were outputs in the cell. And I don’t know, I’m sure we had some spares in there. Weisskopf: Right. MacCready: But probably at least half, and I expect maybe closer to three-quarters of them were in service each time that there was a batch going through that particular place. Weisskopf: Let me jump ahead to the idea of --- the T Plant worked on the batch process. MacCready: Yep. Weisskopf: Where you’d start a batch at one end and move it through the process and it came out at the other end, and it would take a day or so to complete. MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: Would you also, I understood, have multiple batches moving down the line at the same time? MacCready: Yeah. Yeah. Weisskopf: About how many batches might be pushed through in any one day, or might be in the plant at any given moment? MacCready: Oh, let’s see. Weisskopf: Rough idea? MacCready: Yeah. I guess there probably could be half a dozen maybe moving through. Weisskopf: Okay. Now, my next question is, what’s the big deal, then, about moving from batch processing to a steady flow process like they use, what, in REDOX? MacCready: In REDOX? Weisskopf: Yeah. If you’re moving six batches along at a time in T Plant, that sounds pretty efficient to me. MacCready: In that respect, yeah. The truth of the matter is that if you get away from the business of the degree of snazzy complexity of chemistry, that you have available the later ones. There wasn’t any real advantage. And, looking back on it and thinking of some of the things that you can do and can’t do in each one of them, it probably would have been smarter all the way around to never have gone away from just running T and B and U if you needed to, actually. But everybody --- those towers and all, and the exchange opportunities to get stuff for going from the one zone into the other, and suchlike, was very heady chemistry indeed, and very snazzy equipment. Like I think I said before, that was pretty much old-fashioned nuts and bolts kind of work that was going on in T, but it worked. And there is a great advantage always in processing when you expect, you know, you want to keep putting out product all the time, there’s an awful lot of solace if you’ve got steps so that you can do some switching around. For instance, you could run, say, in T Plant, and you got to the process in some cell halfway down the line, and there’s a leak or there’s something or other, and you’re stuck there. But, see, T was built, all of them were, so that you had --- each kind of processing you had three or four duplicate cells. You know, they didn’t --- it only went through about a quarter of those cells. So if you had something of that sort, you could certainly, and we did a few times, you could stop at that stage and haul the stuff out of there and transfer it over to a similar cell someplace else where whatever was troubling you there wouldn’t trouble you again. If you have that kind of equipment problem comes up with the columns, when that happens, she’s all down. Weisskopf: That’s it? MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: Everything at the front of the process has to wait until the part at the end of the process gets out. MacCready: That’s right, yeah. Because it’s all going through the same..... [tape ran out] MacCready: That’s not to say that you couldn’t build a plant of that nature and do that and have that duplication. Weisskopf: Right. MacCready: But the doing of it would mean that the duplication would be something that would cost you many times as much as it would have in the relatively simple T Plant approach. Weisskopf: Yeah. What’s the opposite of batch processing? What was it called, that REDOX and PUREX, their word for it? I can’t remember what it is. But it’s continuous. MacCready: Continuous processing, yes. And there’s things you can do on continuous processing that of course are not possible with the kind of plants that they have. When I was running the ethyl chloride plant, that, the one that I started with, the new one, it was a continuous process plant. And there are lots of things that you can do in a continuous process plant to coggle (phonetic) up problems without shutting down. Weisskopf: Right. You learn real fast probably. MacCready: Yeah. See, your hands on, you can do things to the equipment. You can’t do that with the radioactive stuff. Weisskopf: Okay. MacCready: Now, I can remember, we had two-story-long glass separation systems in the ethyl chloride plant, and once in a while there would be a problem with something. One of the things that most happened would be one of the damn rubber washers would start leaking. We ran the thing in a fashion where the ethyl chloride went through, after it was made, it went through as a gas. We had a pump system, a big pump system that pulled it out and compressed enough then to make it a liquid, and we would keep that liquid in the storage tanks. But because of that, because we had that system, we could kick the compressor up a little bit and we could actually jack one of those segments up an inch or so and snatch out that messed up gasket, put a new one in, and set the thing back down, or put it up. Now, that didn’t work perfectly, because some of the ethyl chloride would come out in the process while we were there, but it was not a problem. You tended to be a little bit drunk when it was over, but that was all. Well, things of that sort we could do. One time we had multiple generators of gas, two of them, and we had pumps there that were moving the stuff. And since what we were moving was hydrochloric acid gas, which is very corrosive, it was always held with pumps that picked it up and pumped it over to go through the rest of the process. So we were forever having this kind of leak here, there and yonder. And to make it doubly troublesome, because of the kind of thing that it was, we used a type of pump that used sulfuric acid as the thing that moved the stuff. So we had to feed it with sulfuric acid. And that was one of the things that was always bitched about, is that you maybe get a leak in that damn sulfuric acid line. Everything else would be running nice, and there this thing would mess you up. Well, we had an acid resistant putty, and you could usually wrap up the piece of pipe, it almost always happened in a joint, you know, pipe was going into a fixture, and you could usually put some of that stuff around there and some tape over it, and then go on, and you wouldn’t have to shut down. I remember one time we got to a place where we had some basic problem and we had to shut down, and we had had a leak on one of those sulfuric acid lines, had puttied it up to see to it that it didn’t leak. While we were down, we were going to take that stuff off and put in their pipe. And when we took it over, we had a wound up place where we had a putty thing, it was about this big all the way around. When we opened it up, there was two inches in there, but there wasn’t anything but putty that was running through. All the metal was gone. Weisskopf: Wow. And this was the kind of thing you couldn’t do in one of the cells. MacCready: No. You can’t do anything in that. Weisskopf: Instead of a 10-minute job, it would be a day and a half to take equipment out, and get new equipment and put it in. MacCready: That’s right. So the business, really, of getting through and getting plutonium out, at any time, certainly the business of getting the simplest and the most simplest approach and one that you could put in lots of duplication to go from a piece of equipment that’s not working and so on, that is by all --- and using as simple chemistry that you possibly could, all of those things were in mine, all of those things were superbly met by what they did. So I think that it was not only good in that respect, I think that after the experience that we had had with the later plants, in all honesty, if I were having to make the damn stuff to make a living, I’d use the T Plant. Weisskopf: Simple, basic batch process. MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: Duplicatible. Flexible. MacCready: So that you could be very damn sure, really, that you were going to get at the end of the month what you needed to get, because if one didn’t work, you could use a duplicate, and so on and so on. And you can’t beat that kind of backup. Weisskopf: Right. Right. It worked well. So in other words, if one batch took a day to get through, but you could have six batches going at the same time at different phases of the process --- MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: --- so in any given day you might have processed six tons, or whatever a batch was, of uranium. MacCready: Now, let’s see... Weisskopf: Was it that simple? MacCready: No, it can’t quite be. Because you have to start off with a batch, see, by dissolving the slugs. And dissolving a batch of those things, it took at least nine hours, maybe more than that. Weisskopf: So that was one limiting factor to how many batches you could run. MacCready: Yes. Weisskopf: The other processes might go quickly, but --- MacCready: Yeah, many of those others would go rather quickly. Weisskopf: So in any 24-hour period, you might be able to dissolve three batches at the most. MacCready: At the most, I would say, yeah. Weisskopf: Okay. MacCready: And I don’t think that we routinely ever tried to do that. I think we probably did do it on occasion, but generally speaking our capacity in T was such that at the time, just the first three reactors, that whatever we wanted to do, we could do it faster than they could. We would have time when there wasn’t any uranium there to --- Weisskopf: That was using two of the plants, though, U and B Plant, T and B. MacCready: That certainly is true. No question about it, yeah. I’m not sure whether we could have get ahead of them with one. Weisskopf: But with two, it was no problem. MacCready: Two, it was no problem. We were, as you say, frequently without materials to dissolve. Weisskopf: In the early phases, or even later on, as you got more efficient? MacCready: Let’s see, I’m trying to... Weisskopf: But you guys weren’t the bottleneck. MacCready: No. No, because, see, we never used more than T and B for this, and that went through handling everything except maybe the last reactor that they had. Weisskopf: Oh, that included DR Reactor, and then H? That was in the late forties, wasn’t it? MacCready: Yeah. Everything --- Weisskopf: And then C Reactor came in the early fifties. MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: And that’s about when REDOX started, was early ‘51 or ‘2? MacCready: Yeah. Yeah. Weisskopf: So two plants were handling not just three reactors, but four, and then five, and then possibly six reactors. MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: Because you were getting more efficient and better at it, too. MacCready: Well, or maybe we just had that much basic capacity. It wasn’t, you know, when you stop and think about it, not too much as long as you could --- as long as you could handle the stuff dissolving, there was very little likelihood you would get hung up for any significant time, because if you got a hang-up, you’d just switch to a sister cell of the same type. Maybe lose an hour or two, but that’s about all. It was an awfully flexible system, really. Weisskopf: And you said for one given process you only used maybe 25% of the cells? MacCready: I would say so, yes. Weisskopf: Less than half. MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: Let me ask you this, just to kind of change gears. If this had not been radioactive --- that had been my earlier question. It was basic chemistry. If the material hadn’t been radioactive, it would have been just another ethyl chloride factory, in a sense --- MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: --- as far as the equipment and --- MacCready: As a matter of fact, it would have been a simpler plant. Weisskopf: Okay. You were only using a quarter of the cells, which means if the equipment had not been in cells, it would have taken up maybe a hundred feet of factory floor, something like that? MacCready: Oh, be generous, give them two hundred feet. Weisskopf: Okay. A quarter of the length of the building. MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: And that’s with plenty of room for getting in and working on it and everything else. MacCready: Yeah, if you could get in --- in the first place, if you could get in and work on it, it wasn’t that kind of thing, you wouldn’t have all these walls in between. Weisskopf: Right. Right. It would just be on one long factory floor. MacCready: That’s right. Weisskopf: And with workmen going around with oil cans, and turning valves, and everything else. MacCready: Yeah. It would have been an awful lot like that old ethyl chloride plant, which was basically a batch process. It had a whole bunch of tanks that it used. Weisskopf: And if you had been designing this factory, or working with DuPont to design it not radioactive, that would have been one line. MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: You would have had --- one line was equivalent to the entire T Plant, how many lines might you have built? You could have built as many as you wanted, right? MacCready: Yeah, you could have. But if you had an ordinary plant of the kind that I’m familiar with, like the ethyl chloride plants, or the camphor plants, or the TL Plants, or we had a plant that made sulfuric acid. Generally speaking, if you built a plant that had the capacity to take care of the indicated market that they foresaw, you would just build the one plant. Weisskopf: And maybe make the building a little bit bigger so in the future you could throw in another line. MacCready: That’s right. Weisskopf: Okay. And, as you were saying, two lines would have been kind of enough. U and B Plant with like two lines would have been enough to handle the reactors --- MacCready: Would have handled it. Weisskopf: --- for the first five, six, eight years. MacCready: Yeah, it would have. Weisskopf: And you could have done away with all the duplication and flexibility. MacCready: That’s right. Weisskopf: It would have been a lot simpler. MacCready: It would have been, yeah. Because you can be --- there were more things to hold you up timewise in that first ethyl chloride plant that I ran than you would have in this kind of a process if it weren’t for the radioactivity. And after the first year, when we got all of the bugs out, and such like, that one plant ran 94.6% of the time for the year. Weisskopf: Which plant was this you’re referring to? MacCready: This ethyl chloride plant. Weisskopf: The first one? The batch one? MacCready: No. Weisskopf: The newer one. MacCready: The newer one. Which had many more ways to have trouble, the major thing being that it was handling very corrosive materials all the time, which always gives you problems. Weisskopf: How did that compare with T Plant and B Plant as far as their operation time the first year? MacCready: Well, fundamentally they ran 100% of the time, because they had the wherewithal. And when you got these spreaders around, you don’t have to stop. Weisskopf: The process could keep going while you would go about fixing the problem earlier on. MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: Okay. Maybe you could help me with one --- I’d like to ask you about the equipment that was used. But maybe before we finish, because you’re probably getting tired, too --- MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: The precipitator, the big tank, had a column on top, that was part of the process. Not the dissolver, but when you would put in the bismuth phosphate, and you’d agitate it in a big tank, and it a column, 2-foot by 12-foot column on top. MacCready: I don’t remember, really. Weisskopf: I can bring you a picture next time, maybe it will ring a bell. MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: I’m not enough of a chemist by any means to understand when you precipitate out something, physically what kind of equipment --- I’ve seen it done in a lab, just by stirring up a beaker, right? MacCready: Yeah. Well, I don’t remember what it might be. The basic means of separating the solid from the liquid --- Weisskopf: I think I was wrong, too. What I was talking about was the dissolver. It had a column? MacCready: Oh, yeah. Weisskopf: It did. MacCready: Yes. Weisskopf: For some reason or other, it’s still not in my mind why --- who cares if the dissolver has a column in it, if all you’re doing is dissolving stuff in acid. So it had a 12-foot tall column. MacCready: Yeah. Weisskopf: Okay. Please explain that to me. MacCready: Well, that, of course, is the dissolution business leads to a certain amount of gas, acid, acidic gas being emitted, and that had to be caught and controlled, and that was what the column was for. Weisskopf: Was it like a still, where it would liquefy and drip back down again? MacCready: Well, it would --- I’ve forgotten the details. But I would guess, yeah, we probably had the means of, as the stuff’s coming up there, showering it a little bit and hitting it back down. Weisskopf: Why didn’t you just pressure cook it? Why didn’t you just crank the valves shut and let the acid dissolve it under pressure? Where would the gas have gone then? MacCready: Well, it would have gone down, along with the material. Weisskopf: Oh. Yeah. Okay. MacCready: And that you would prefer not to have happen. See, it takes pretty strong acid to dissolve that stuff up. I’m sure that this was simply a matter of seeing to it that they did not let that get away. Weisskopf: Okay. I didn’t understand that. Are you about out of words at this point? MacCready: I think about. - END - Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 01:58:06 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 128kbps Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource William Kenneth "Mac" MacReady Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Hanford Atomic Products Operation Description An account of the resource An audio oral history interview with Gardner Clark "G.C." Blackburn conducted by Gene Weisskopf for the B Reactor Museum Association as part of an interview series focused on the T Plant and writing a Historic American Engineering Record (HAER) document for the T Plant. MacReady was a DuPont Chemist during WWII and was a T Plant "Checker" Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource B Reactor Museum Association Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hanford History Project at Washington State University Tri-Cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 11/19/1999 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Those interested in reproducing part or all of this oral history should contact the Hanford History Project. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3 Language A language of the resource English Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RG2D-4B